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Old 02-27-2017, 10:25 AM   #1
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Default Some folks never learn

http://www.unionleader.com/Weirs-Cha...aw-enforcement

Two weeks after two tragic accidents, someone has to skim the water.
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Old 02-27-2017, 11:57 AM   #2
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Saw that. Pretty dumb. Never understood the desire to flirt with death and jeopardize the lives of the Firemen that would ultimately have to fish the people out of the water, dead or alive, when someone goes terribly wrong..............
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Old 02-27-2017, 12:44 PM   #3
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The fine for skimming is $500. Maybe it should be $5,000 and they (if they survive) or their next of kin should be held responsible for paying it.

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Old 02-27-2017, 01:13 PM   #4
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I read where one of the video posters knew who the two people, but would not name them. Could we see a hindering investigation charge coming fourth?

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Old 02-27-2017, 02:13 PM   #5
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Pretty sure many people knew it was going happen. I've seen 3 different videos of this. One was that one posted from Thurstons, the second was across from Thurstons and the 3rd was from the bridge. The second one showed the barefooter letting go around the statue and scrambling up to shore.
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Old 02-28-2017, 10:22 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by BroadHopper View Post
http://www.unionleader.com/Weirs-Cha...aw-enforcement

Two weeks after two tragic accidents, someone has to skim the water.
These guys knew what they were doing unlike the unfortunate tragic accidents. Apples and Oranges. Look at the sled, no seat on it...it was setup to cross water. Why do people always have to complain about everything nowadays? What happened to having some good fun with some heavy adrenaline mixed in. Someone really needs to lobby to get the state motto changed because the slogan has lived up to its own name...it's dead. There's no more "live free".

Also - save your time justifying your position about putting others lives in danger. They didn't put anyone's life in danger doing this and clearly assumed the risk (probably the biggest one being hitting ice with your feet).

Apologies for the rant, but it's sad that this is what the world has come to...and that fish and game are looking for the offenders. What's next, state and local police to put up cameras/radars everywhere and knock on offenders doors with citations for speeding. Society is way too PC these days and it's sad. VERY SAD.

/rant
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Old 02-28-2017, 11:45 AM   #7
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My issue with skimming is that it creates snowmobile tracks into open water. Snowmobilers often follow existing tracks, particularly at night. I have no issue with sanctioned water cross events, etc.

BTW, I clearly recall one of the posters on this thread skimming (when still legal), only to have his belt fail when he was approx. 200 yards from the open water
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Old 02-28-2017, 12:31 PM   #8
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Also - save your time justifying your position about putting others lives in danger. They didn't put anyone's life in danger doing this and clearly assumed the risk (probably the biggest one being hitting ice with your feet).
/rant
Your right they didn't. But easily could have. Bottom line - it is illegal. And yes I have first responders in my family that deal with illegal and stupid things idiots do, often putting their lives in danger so save me from your "live free or die" attitude.
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Old 02-28-2017, 12:40 PM   #9
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My issue with skimming is that it creates snowmobile tracks into open water. Snowmobilers often follow existing tracks, particularly at night. I have no issue with sanctioned water cross events, etc.

BTW, I clearly recall one of the posters on this thread skimming (when still legal), only to have his belt fail when he was approx. 200 yards from the open water
I couldn't agree more with your entire post. That said, the first part of your post is likely inapplicable to the issue of these guys skimming the channel. I think everyone is cognizant of the ice conditions out there currently and there's not even snow on the ice to follow tracks. People are barely even navigating the lakes anymore right now given recent weather.

The second part, I'd plead the fifth but it was legal at the time and fun. That said, It's been YEARS since I've skimmed and to this day, I still encourage people to do it in the appropriate conditions/environment to understand what it's like in case of emergency. Unfortunately, it's not legal anymore. And by the right environment, there was a perfect patch of open water between the islands in front of Melvin Village that wouldn't freeze. The depth level was maybe a foot, so if something went wrong you could (i) get out unharmed for the most part and (ii) not cause damage to sled, lake, etc. since the snowmobile wouldn't be submerged if it happened. But I digress since I don't do it anymore
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Old 02-28-2017, 12:44 PM   #10
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Your right they didn't. But easily could have. Bottom line - it is illegal. And yes I have first responders in my family that deal with illegal and stupid things idiots do, often putting their lives in danger so save me from your "live free or die" attitude.
With all due respect, your family chose that job
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Old 02-28-2017, 03:04 PM   #11
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Not denying that. Risks with the job. But senseless illegal acts that are easily avoidable and continue to add up over time will at some point lead to unfavorable outcomes for both the parties doing it and the parties cleaning up the mess. In reality, disregarding the laws just lead to new laws on the books which seems to further restrict the opportunity to "live free".
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Old 02-28-2017, 03:37 PM   #12
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With all due respect, your family chose that job
Then if you choose to skim and lose it.....no one is coming for you. Fair?
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Old 02-28-2017, 05:44 PM   #13
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Not denying that. Risks with the job. But senseless illegal acts that are easily avoidable and continue to add up over time will at some point lead to unfavorable outcomes for both the parties doing it and the parties cleaning up the mess. In reality, disregarding the laws just lead to new laws on the books which seems to further restrict the opportunity to "live free".
I could go on for days, but it's honestly not worth the argument. I personally, choose to live a little and have some fun every now and then. Clearly these guys did too. It didn't affect you, it didn't affect your family, and I highly doubt you're going to see a growing trend of dare devils start skimming massive patches of water to barefoot ski in low temps.
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Old 02-28-2017, 05:49 PM   #14
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Then if you choose to skim and lose it.....no one is coming for you. Fair?
That doesn't make sense...My point was that as a first responder, there is inherent risk with the job that you may have to rescue people at some point as a result of legal or illegal acts.
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Old 02-28-2017, 05:59 PM   #15
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That doesn't make sense...My point was that as a first responder, there is inherent risk with the job that you may have to rescue people at some point as a result of legal or illegal acts.
It makes perfect sense. The deal is make it legal but no rescues. Clearly tongue in cheek. First responders will jump into action whether the mishap was legal, illegal, intentional, by accident, just dumb, or otherwise. With that said, the public has some responsibility to keep themselves out of trouble in the first place. That would be following the laws in place. Skimming was made illegal due to the risks for ALL involved when it goes bad and that includes those coming to the rescue.

I think skimming is pretty cool but there is a place for it. Those who just wanna have fun and live free or die are the same ones who don't obey the stay on trail signs.
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Old 02-28-2017, 06:39 PM   #16
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Angry All residents in the area were placed at risk....

Just a couple of comments about the two idiots that staged this foolish stunt for their five minutes of fame....

Knew what they were doing? No risks? Well prepared?

Crap. During warm weather with specially prepared sleds, dozens of riders still go into the water at the Fremont Grass Drags each season, so much so that a specialized pontoon boat with rescuers are on scene for immediate deployment. No such arrangements were made for this stunt except for a single kayaker.

And what about the first responders that would have been tied up if this unannounced event had easily gone bad? Anyone familiar with public safety in the area knows how extremely taxed existing agencies are. The incidents of two weeks ago, where first responders were on alert and extra staffed still showed that a multiple incident delays response time. So if these two idiots were in the water awaiting rescue which is an intensive response, all other citizens in the coverage area are placed at higher risk due to delayed response times.

If these two had applied for a special event permit, met necessary safety requirements including the funding of necessary rescue personnel, then they would have truly only placed themselves at risk.

However these two idiots indeed placed themselves and countless other residents at risk with their foolish stunt. Those that don't understand that simply have no clue as to how thinly stretched the first responder service is in our State. And that truly is sad....
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Old 02-28-2017, 06:56 PM   #17
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And someone has established a Go Fund me page to pay their fines. Over $900 raised so far. 😠 If you are going to intentionally break the law to gain your 5 minutes of fame, at least pony up the fine money out of your own pocket.

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Old 02-28-2017, 07:13 PM   #18
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And someone has established a Go Fund me page to pay their fines. Over $900 raised so far. 😠 If you are going to intentionally break the law to gain your 5 minutes of fame, at least pony up the fine money out of your own pocket.

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Did they catch them??
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Old 02-28-2017, 07:14 PM   #19
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Yes, channel 9 had breaking news on it late this afternoon.

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Old 02-28-2017, 07:14 PM   #20
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http://www.wmur.com/article/2-charge...saukee/8991250
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Old 02-28-2017, 08:34 PM   #21
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You guys are all right. I forgot you've all never went above the speed limit, crossed a yellow line, j-walked, rolled a stop sign, etc. in your life.
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Old 02-28-2017, 08:59 PM   #22
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Default No fine for wake?

I suppose the driver isn't going to be fined for his wake in the channel due to the headway exception?
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Old 02-28-2017, 09:30 PM   #23
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A significant shame of what they did is profiting from breaking the law.....where is the good in that? It is obvious that they have not learned a thing about what they did being wrong and illegal and I would bet they will flaunt the law in the future for their own selfish gratification.
Yes Shreddy, many have gone above the speed limit in a car, crossed a yellow line, j-walked, rolled a stop sign, etc. in their life and did not get caught but did that make it right?
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Old 02-28-2017, 09:37 PM   #24
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Unhappy We Lost a First Responder Under the Ice...

Quote:
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It makes perfect sense. The deal is make it legal but no rescues. Clearly tongue in cheek. First responders will jump into action whether the mishap was legal, illegal, intentional, by accident, just dumb, or otherwise. With that said, the public has some responsibility to keep themselves out of trouble in the first place. That would be following the laws in place. Skimming was made illegal due to the risks for ALL involved when it goes bad and that includes those coming to the rescue.
I think skimming is pretty cool but there is a place for it. Those who just wanna have fun and live free or die are the same ones who don't obey the stay on trail signs.
NOT just "those coming to the rescue", but "those training for such rescues".

As we saw in Alton a few years ago.

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Old 02-28-2017, 09:50 PM   #25
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Default GoFund

There is a GoFundMe site set up to help pay the fine. Last I looked, almost twice the fine had been donated. They say, "100% of $$ over our goal will be donated in memory of Mark Greene to the Squam Trail Busters Snowmobile Club".
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Old 02-28-2017, 10:14 PM   #26
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A significant shame of what they did is profiting from breaking the law.....where is the good in that? It is obvious that they have not learned a thing about what they did being wrong and illegal and I would bet they will flaunt the law in the future for their own selfish gratification.
Yes Shreddy, many have gone above the speed limit in a car, crossed a yellow line, j-walked, rolled a stop sign, etc. in their life and did not get caught but did that make it right?
Profiting? They didn't set up the GoFundMe...someone who was nice enough to appreciate the cool stunt did (correction, may be related, but I highly doubt that was their intent when they planned it and even it was, good for them. Great business model given how many people supported it). Clearly people support them given the amount of contributions they received. They also turned themselves in, so take that into account...
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Old 03-01-2017, 08:16 AM   #27
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I suppose the driver isn't going to be fined for his wake in the channel due to the headway exception?
He was maintaining headway speed
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Old 03-01-2017, 12:06 PM   #28
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Everyone.....cut this out and put it on your refrigerator:
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Old 03-02-2017, 04:19 PM   #29
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Everyone.....cut this out and put it on your refrigerator:
They were prepared for whatever happened, no stupid decisions here. Just people on this forum who don't want anyone to have fun, This coming from a retired firefighter
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Old 03-03-2017, 09:15 AM   #30
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Default This weekend.

About six were observed skimming the channel. Without a skier behind. I guess the tradition continues..........................
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Old 03-03-2017, 06:17 PM   #31
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... Also - save your time justifying your position about putting others lives in danger. They didn't put anyone's life in danger doing this and clearly assumed the risk (probably the biggest one being hitting ice with your feet).
...
I agree with your point that people who want to take risks are entitled to do so if they aren't endangering others. I don't subsbcribe to the 'monkey see, monkey do' explanation for the F&G officer.

What I would like to point out is that had there been an accident, the First-Responders would have been at risk for a thin-ice rescue or under the ice recovery.

It does look like a blast though. Maybe someday there will be opportunities for this to be done like any other sport.
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Old 03-06-2017, 05:28 PM   #32
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I agree with your point that people who want to take risks are entitled to do so if they aren't endangering others. I don't subsbcribe to the 'monkey see, monkey do' explanation for the F&G officer.

What I would like to point out is that had there been an accident, the First-Responders would have been at risk for a thin-ice rescue or under the ice recovery.

It does look like a blast though. Maybe someday there will be opportunities for this to be done like any other sport.
I get that and I appreciate that. My point previously was that rescue for legal or illegal actions is the job of first-responders. I have nothing against them and appreciate what they do, but that's their job. I would not recommend signing up for a job that one is not willing to complete.

FWIW - I believe certain first-responders in our area are actually trained (potentially annually) in the area of ice rescue.

Bringing this topic full circle, I just don't understand why people can't appreciate something cool anymore. Everyone has to be a critic. This was an awesome stunt that occurred WITHOUT issue. As I stated previously, this is hardly going to turn into a trend, and even if it does, then F&G should be monitoring areas where it's taking place and either stop i from happening or cite them at the time of occurrence.
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Old 03-06-2017, 06:02 PM   #33
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I get that and I appreciate that. My point previously was that rescue for legal or illegal actions is the job of first-responders. I have nothing against them and appreciate what they do, but that's their job. I would not recommend signing up for a job that one is not willing to complete.

FWIW - I believe certain first-responders in our area are actually trained (potentially annually) in the area of ice rescue.

Sure, it's their job and they're trained. But that doesn't mean it's right to "ask" them to be there to back you up for completely unnecessary, illegal, idiotic stunts. They've got plenty of work and personal risk on their shoulders just backing up people who are reasonable in their use of the outdoors. To "appreciate what they do", as you say, we should respect their time, safety, etc.
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Old 03-06-2017, 06:24 PM   #34
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Sure, it's their job and they're trained. But that doesn't mean it's right to "ask" them to be there to back you up for completely unnecessary, illegal, idiotic stunts. They've got plenty of work and personal risk on their shoulders just backing up people who are reasonable in their use of the outdoors. To "appreciate what they do", as you say, we should respect their time, safety, etc.
These guys didn't need their assistance and didn't ask for their help. They've actually confirmed they had their own people on hand in case anything went wrong. So, am I missing something here?
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Old 03-06-2017, 07:21 PM   #35
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What your in favor of is actions that are not allowed, bottom line. It's no different in my opinion, than the knuckleheads that can't stay on the trails, break the rules at the cost to others.
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Old 03-07-2017, 05:33 AM   #36
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Question Someone Mentioned Adrenaline?

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These guys knew what they were doing unlike the unfortunate tragic accidents. Apples and Oranges. Look at the sled, no seat on it...it was setup to cross water. Why do people always have to complain about everything nowadays? What happened to having some good fun with some heavy adrenaline mixed in. Someone really needs to lobby to get the state motto changed because the slogan has lived up to its own name...it's dead. There's no more "live free"...
Yeah. Why not jump off a 400 cliff with your surfboard to kite-sail on the shallow waters below?



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Old 03-07-2017, 06:25 AM   #37
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These guys didn't need their assistance and didn't ask for their help. They've actually confirmed they had their own people on hand in case anything went wrong. So, am I missing something here?
If I heard correctly, their 'people on hand' were people videoing from different angles and someone in a kayak. Not sure that's enough of a support system to shrug off the potential danger.

What bothered me most is that these guys did this so shortly after a number of people lost their lives falling through the ice. I'm confident I'd never totally be on the "that's rad!" side as I tend to see the benefits in following the rules, but the timing of this especially rubbed me the wrong way.

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Old 03-07-2017, 09:39 AM   #38
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If I heard correctly, their 'people on hand' were people videoing from different angles and someone in a kayak. Not sure that's enough of a support system to shrug off the potential danger.

What bothered me most is that these guys did this so shortly after a number of people lost their lives falling through the ice. I'm confident I'd never totally be on the "that's rad!" side as I tend to see the benefits in following the rules, but the timing of this especially rubbed me the wrong way.

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In one of the articles I read about this stunt, one of the participants said (paraphrasing) that in retrospect, it may have been poor timing on their part to do it so close to the tragedies. While I don't agree with them doing the stunt, I did appreciate that statement.

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Old 03-07-2017, 11:17 AM   #39
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In one of the articles I read about this stunt, one of the participants said (paraphrasing) that in retrospect, it may have been poor timing on their part to do it so close to the tragedies. While I don't agree with them doing the stunt, I did appreciate that statement.

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And unfortunately, even if bad timing, this may have been their only window to pull this off given the warm up, good temperature that day, and safe(ish) ice on both sides. Maybe I'm blind, but I don't correlate what they did as a stunt against people unfortunately going through the ice in extremely unsafe areas.

Now that I think about it, I don't see much difference between this and a guy who does a wheelie on a motorcycle. It's an illegal stunt.
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Old 03-10-2017, 08:23 AM   #40
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So set it up as an event at the grass drags. 10 laps towing a skier, one sled and skier at a time, best time wins with bonus points awarded for stunts. Water is much warmer and they are already set up for rescue plus the sleds are set up for it as well.
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Old 03-23-2017, 05:35 AM   #41
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Yeah. Why not jump off a 400 cliff with your surfboard to kite-sail on the shallow waters below?
(Quoting myself).

Now that I think about it, I did some cliff-diving when I was young and stupid.

(I've also "done stupid" with zeros).

The dive location—at the X—is Puerto de Sóller, Spain's Ibiza Island, in the Mediterranean Sea. Sóller is an interesting town—with a town-sized boulder hanging over it.

Although my recollection was of having no sense of "rushing adrenalin"—but of rushing wind—the diver pictured is me. That "defect" at my knee is a kayak in the distance!
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Old 03-23-2017, 05:27 PM   #42
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(Quoting myself).

Now that I think about it, I did some cliff-diving when I was young and stupid.

(I've also "done stupid" with zeros).

The dive location—at the X—is Puerto de Sóller, Spain's Ibiza Island, in the Mediterranean Sea. Sóller is an interesting town—with a town-sized boulder hanging over it.

Although my recollection was of having no sense of "rushing adrenalin"—but of rushing wind—the diver pictured is me. That "defect" at my knee is a kayak in the distance!
That's sweet - all in good fun! It's sad, but nowadays, people want your head for having that kind of fun. "What if something bad happened and you hit your head on a rock while diving? You would've put my son/daughter, a first responder, in danger. It's illegal to jump from cliffs that high."
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