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Old 09-03-2010, 01:16 PM   #1
Senter Cove Guy
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Default The Seneca and Its Cargo

Attached are 2 pictures of a propeller that was found in 1976 near Goose Egg Rock. It is believed to be from the steamship Seneca.

A couple of days ago, DIVER1111 was scootering around that divesite and came across "dozens" of round shaped objects. The second 2 pictures show one of the round shaped objects. It's kind of hard to figure out just what they are. Does anyone want to hazard a guess? It would be neat to look at the Seneca's loading manifest, if we knew where we could find it.
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Old 09-03-2010, 05:40 PM   #2
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Default The Seneca and Its Cargo

I can't say that I know what the items are, but if there are quite a few of them, they may have been ballast weights for the Seneca.
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Old 09-04-2010, 12:53 PM   #3
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Default They weren't magnetic

I placed a small magnet against one of them-nothing; They look like ferrous metal (rust colored I guess from water) but are not heavy, and not metallic as best as I can tell; In fact they are brittle.
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Old 09-07-2010, 08:59 AM   #4
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Is there anything else left of the Seneca at that site?
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Old 09-08-2010, 11:54 AM   #5
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I'll take a guess that they are chunks of "Slag" from a foundry. Slag is the impurities that are skimmed off the the top of molten metal (using a ladle) from the melting pot.

Those pieces might be about the size of the contents of the ladle. Perhaps in this case the foundry practice was to toss the slag from the ladle into a bucket of water to cool it off before being disposed of. NB

PS: Anyone who has been to Sudbury, Ontario will remember the huge slag heaps with railroad dump cars dumping the still hot slag into piles on either side of the tracks. Sudbury is the site of the HUGE "International Nickel" mine. A local sign entering town says "Welcome To The Big Nickel".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Nickel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inco_Superstack
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Old 09-08-2010, 02:13 PM   #6
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I am guessing it is not nickel. The kg. Weight per cubic meter seems pretty high per the chart below. And I believe Diver 1111 said they weren't very heavy.

Metal or alloy kg/cu.m
aluminium - melted 2560 - 2640
aluminium bronze (3-10% Al) 7700 - 8700
aluminium foil 2700 -2750
antifriction metal 9130 -10600
beryllium 1840
beryllium copper 8100 - 8250
brass - casting 8400 - 8700
brass - rolled and drawn 8430 - 8730
bronze - lead 7700 - 8700
bronze - phosphorous 8780 - 8920
bronze (8-14% Sn) 7400 - 8900
cast iron 6800 - 7800
cobolt 8746
copper 8930
delta metal 8600
electrum 8400 - 8900
gold 19320
iron 7850
lead 11340
light alloy based on Al 2560 - 2800
light alloy based on Mg 1760 - 1870
magnesium 1738
mercury 13593
molybdenum 10188
monel 8360 - 8840
nickel 8800
nickel silver 8400 - 8900
platinum 21400
plutonium 19800
silver 10490
steel - rolled 7850
steel - stainless 7480 - 8000
tin 7280
titanium 4500
tungsten 19600
uranium 18900
vanadium 5494
white metal 7100
zinc 7135
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Old 09-08-2010, 04:37 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pineedles View Post
I am guessing it is not nickel. The kg. Weight per cubic meter seems pretty high per the chart below. And I believe Diver 1111 said they weren't very heavy.

Metal or alloy kg/cu.m
aluminium - melted 2560 - 2640
aluminium bronze (3-10% Al) 7700 - 8700
aluminium foil 2700 -2750
antifriction metal 9130 -10600
beryllium 1840
beryllium copper 8100 - 8250
brass - casting 8400 - 8700
brass - rolled and drawn 8430 - 8730
bronze - lead 7700 - 8700
bronze - phosphorous 8780 - 8920
bronze (8-14% Sn) 7400 - 8900
cast iron 6800 - 7800
cobolt 8746
copper 8930
delta metal 8600
electrum 8400 - 8900
gold 19320
iron 7850
lead 11340
light alloy based on Al 2560 - 2800
light alloy based on Mg 1760 - 1870
magnesium 1738
mercury 13593
molybdenum 10188
monel 8360 - 8840
nickel 8800
nickel silver 8400 - 8900
platinum 21400
plutonium 19800
silver 10490
steel - rolled 7850
steel - stainless 7480 - 8000
tin 7280
titanium 4500
tungsten 19600
uranium 18900
vanadium 5494
white metal 7100
zinc 7135
I didn't suggest the SLAG was Nickel. SLAG is "Impurities"/ie. Junk, resulting from smelting down any metal. My reference to nickel was having to do with large Slag Heaps that "happen to be" located at a very large nickel mine in Canada. Sorry for the misunderstanding. NB

Last edited by NoBozo; 09-08-2010 at 06:05 PM. Reason: Complete "Quotes"
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Old 09-08-2010, 08:20 PM   #8
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Default Slag or fabric?

No problem NoBozo. I appreciate your attempt to solve the mystery. I am wondering if it is some kind of fabric that has been ingrained with sediment? However, all that I have read from our denizens of the deep in Winnipesaukee says that when it goes down below, its practically untouched by bacteria or any other kind of decomposition. We need to keep on thinking.
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Old 09-08-2010, 09:07 PM   #9
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Only iron and steel can rust. A magnet won't stick to steel alloys, which is what I would guess the object to be. (Guess being the key word here...)

Where would a cargo manifest be found, assuming there was one?
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Old 11-01-2011, 12:45 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senter Cove Guy View Post
Attached are 2 pictures of a propeller that was found in 1976 near Goose Egg Rock. It is believed to be from the steamship Seneca.

A couple of days ago, DIVER1111 was scootering around that divesite and came across "dozens" of round shaped objects. The second 2 pictures show one of the round shaped objects. It's kind of hard to figure out just what they are. Does anyone want to hazard a guess? It would be neat to look at the Seneca's loading manifest, if we knew where we could find it.

I was just looking at a post about Wolfeboro Back/Front bay. There was some history posted about a mill that produced excelsior. Excelsior was made from the waste created from the manufacture of other products. It was used as a shipping material inside boxes. Excelsior, once a common product used to pack fragile items for shipping in wooden boxes, and also used for filling in mattresses, is not seen much today. Excelsior is a shredded wood product made from poplar or other soft woods.

Could this be it?
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Old 11-01-2011, 04:53 AM   #11
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Excelsior looks like this:

http://www.getfruitflies.com/images/excelsior.gif

It's still used in shipping and it's also found in craft stores - florists use it in arrangements (usually dried). Since it's organic it would decompose, especially in water over time.
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:29 AM   #12
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Default Slag

STILL looks like SLAG to me...OR.... they are Petrified Meadow Muffins and are extremely valuable to collectors. NB

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slag

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meadow_muffin
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Old 11-01-2011, 01:17 PM   #13
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Looks like a coffee roll from dunkin donuts...yummmm
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Old 11-02-2011, 04:38 PM   #14
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Default Iron Foundry

If it is slag, then was there an iron foundry somewhere on the lake? if there was where is it?

There was an iron foundry located at the big smoke stack in downtown Laconia area. There was an iron foundry at Gilmanton Iron Works. That's all I know.
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Old 11-03-2011, 09:08 AM   #15
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Default Slag or whatever it is

Note that I found this material around Light Buoy #12 and also smaller amounts about 800 feet away at the black spar buoy off Garnet Point to the northwest (as you look for example towards Poplar Is.).

The material can be found in sheets, some I estimated at 4-5 feet long or so, as I could put my hand under the edge and lift up, picking up perhaps 2 square feet or so before it broke off. Most often it is found in smaller sections, or as the piece I took home and photographed that looks like a cinnamon bun.

As I said the material is not very heavy at all, prob. accounting for it's brittleness. How this ended up on the lake floor in slabs/sheets is another question. Hard to believe it was poured hot into the water. If that was done you would think it would pile up like a volcano of sorts before cooling not flatten out.

It would be interesting to have it analyzed.
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Old 11-03-2011, 10:35 AM   #16
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Default The Plot Thickens

This is getting more interesting. Since you mentioned the pieces on the bottom were actually much larger than the one in your picture, THIS sheds a completely new light on things. I had previously considered the chunk of stuff might be "Clinkers"...which would come from burning coal. They are congealed impurities found in the ashes left in the firebox under the boiler. Like a wood fire, sometimes the coal did not completely burn..because it may have been low grade..ie..had impurities.

On page 134 of "Farewell Old Mount Washington" there is a copy of an engineering drawing of the Old Mounts engine and boiler. There is an engineering note at the top of the drawing that describes the "Ash Disposal Unit"...as follows:

"Ash disposal unit: Ashes were shoveled into the opening and washed overboard by a jet of water through the 10" pipe and ash port, then ground up by the paddle wheel". NB

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinker_(waste)

EDIT: The Wiki link is Cranky. Click on "Did you Mean".....Clinker (Waste)
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Old 01-03-2014, 10:24 PM   #17
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I stumped upon this video from the 1970's. It's posted by Brad Swain on youtube. This is the description given;

Propeller salvaged in Lake Winnipesaukee in 1976. Thought to be from the steamship Seneca but this fact is in question because the Seneca was built and wrecked in the 1860's and the first screw-driver steamer on Winnipesaukee appeared in 1877. More to come on this mystery.

The salvage boat doesn't appear until 0:37 seconds in.

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Old 01-04-2014, 06:26 PM   #18
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Here's a very similar thread discussing the Seneca. There are some still photographs that were taken from the Kitty Belle during the propeller salvage as well as the video.

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ad.php?t=12984
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Old 06-16-2014, 12:05 AM   #19
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Default ok, did this wreck ever get located?

In reading around, and traveling through the links, I haven't found any conclusion. Is she found or what?
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Old 06-16-2014, 12:27 AM   #20
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Default Not Located Yet

Quote:
Originally Posted by glennsteely View Post
In reading around, and traveling through the links, I haven't found any conclusion. Is she found or what?
This wreck has not yet been found. We'd sure like to know IF it was a paddle-wheeler or not.
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Old 06-16-2014, 07:01 AM   #21
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This is a very interesting thread. Did any ever confirm what the items are?
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