Go Back   Winnipesaukee Forum > Lake Issues > Boating Issues > Speed Limits
Home Forums Gallery Blogs YouTube Channel Classifieds Links Calendar Register FAQDonate Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-12-2011, 08:12 AM   #1
ronc4424
Senior Member
 
ronc4424's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Danvers,Ma & Ashland,Nh
Posts: 71
Thanks: 147
Thanked 18 Times in 11 Posts
Default something to read on a snowy day

Boat speed limit backers say changing law will do harm
Laconia:

By JOHN KOZIOL
jkoziol@citizen.com


Wednesday, January 12, 2011


DARYL CARLSON/CITIZEN PHOTO BOATING SPEED limit bill proponents Warren Hutchins, left, and Weldon Bosworth discuss why it would be bad to change the current 30/45 mph limits already established on Lake Winnipesaukee.


Click here to view Foster's prints for sale



Supporters of the current boating speed limits on Lake Winnipesaukee fear that a proposed bill to "enhance and modify" the law would actually gut it, putting at risk the safety of all lake users as well as the tourism-based economy on which the Lakes Region relies.

Although still in its draft form, the bill introduced by Sen. Lou D'Allesandro, D-Manchester, "Relative to Speed Limitations for Boats" would, according to Safe Boaters of New Hampshire, feature "an escalating fine structure, allowing a violator to pay a fine rather than the more expensive option forcing a Marine Patrol officer to be tied up in court. It also establishes a way to permanently ban habitual offenders from New Hampshire waterways."

The bill would no longer require a Marine Patrol to clock a boat by radar, instead, per U.S. Coast Guard regulations regarding speed on the water, the officer would be able to "use his/her training to determine if a boat operator is traveling too fast for the prevailing conditions without regard to actual miles per hour," SBONH said.

But Sandy Helve, Weldon Bosworth and Warren Hutchins, who began the successful fight for speed limits five years ago, largely through the Winnipesaukee Family Alliance for Boating Safety (WinnFABS), worry that the bill would make the Big Lake a less safe and less inviting place.

There is no doubt, the trio said on Tuesday during an interview at The Citizen, that Lake Winnipesaukee has been a nicer place for swimmers, sailors, kayakers, canoeist and power boaters since the speed limits went into effect. SBONH, however, says there is no evidence that the speed limits have made any difference.

For his part D'Allesandro said the goal of his bill is the same as that of WinnFABS: public safety.

"It (the bill) uses the Coast Guard guidelines and the guidelines are that if it's unreasonable, it's a problem and it uses the same criteria for all of the weeks," D'Allesandro explained.

Asked about opposition to his bill — Helve, who is from Nashua and summers on Bear Island — said a bill similar to D'Allesandro's has also been proposed in the House of Representatives — the Queen City lawmaker replied "everybody has an opinion."

While he said it has support among some lawmakers, D'Allesandro said the fate of his bill was uncertain.

"I think it's a real toss-up at this point," he said.

Obviously, we all want good, safe boating and that's an important issue. If there are things in the bill they disagree with, we're always open to considering them at the appropriate time."

Helve said D'Allesandro's bill would make the current speed limit law moot because without the actual enumeration of the permitted speeds, law enforcement officials would not be able to prosecute offenders under the bill's legally vague "reasonable and prudent" language.

In a survey of public safety officials at lakes around the country that have speed limits, the WinnFABS members said they were told that the language is "an antiquated Coast Guard phrase that is no longer used without specific numbered speed limits to delineate the maximum speeds allowed."

As unenforceable as "reasonable and prudent" was, it also confused boaters, the WinnFABS' survey found.

Hutchins, who is a Laconia resident, said the challenge for speed limit supporters is to educate the public and the General Court — whose all-Republican supermajorities in the House, Senate and Executive Council all include many new and first-time lawmakers — about the value of the current law and the threat to it posed by D'Allesandro's bill.

He questioned why the bill wasn't introduced by a legislator from the Lakes Region and expressed concern that with the new Legislature, the area now has no representation at all on the important House Transportation Committee which will likely consider D'Allesandro's proposal.

A marine biologist from Gilford, Bosworth said the speed limit is not about how many incidents or accidents were recorded, "it's whether people feel comfortable out there," and over the past two years, people feel comfortable going out on Lake Winnipesaukee.

Rusty McLear, the owner of Hampshire Hospitality Holdings which includes the Inn at Church Landing and the Inns and Spa at Mill Falls in Meredith, said in a prepared statement that while no one "likes more rules and regulations," a "tipping point" has been reached on Lake Winnipesaukee.

"More and more, larger and larger, faster and faster boats vying for the same space cannot continue. The 45/30 mph speed limit law is one tool to slow us all down a little and return some measure of civility, safety and serenity to our lakes and to help us to continue to attract the broadest market of visitors."

Helve said the speed limit law has support from camp directors around the lake as well as from the almost the 5,000 people who signed a petition in favor of it.

"People are happy with the law," she said, and those who oppose it, though having gotten the ear of some lawmakers, "are few and far in between."

"We need to keep attracting families and dollars" to the Lakes Region, said Helve, and the way to do that is to make the latter feel welcome on Lake Winnipesaukee. Already, said Bosworth, there is a "vast difference in the tenor," on the lake.
ronc4424 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ronc4424 For This Useful Post:
Rusty (01-12-2011), Skip (01-12-2011)
Old 01-12-2011, 08:53 AM   #2
Rusty
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,028
Thanks: 603
Thanked 686 Times in 424 Posts
Default

Thank you "ronc4424" for posting that very well written article!

Below is the photo of Warren Hutchins, left, and Weldon Bosworth who discuss why it would be bad to change the current 45/30 mph limits already established on Lake Winnipesaukee:

CLICK ON PHOTO TO READ ARTICLE:

Rusty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2011, 09:26 AM   #3
lawn psycho
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: On the move...
Posts: 987
Thanks: 113
Thanked 248 Times in 133 Posts
Default

Thanks Rusty.

Interesting that Winnfabs claims "reasonable and prudent" is vague but then they give a statement about a different "tenor" on the lake. I have yet to see ONE piece of objective data to support that claim.

It's the continual addition of restrictions on the lake that will drive dollars away. You can get hassled at a sandbar for hanging out with your wife while reading the newspaper or book for crying out loud!
lawn psycho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2011, 09:47 AM   #4
lawn psycho
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: On the move...
Posts: 987
Thanks: 113
Thanked 248 Times in 133 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronc4424 View Post
"More and more, larger and larger, faster and faster boats vying for the same space cannot continue. The 45/30 mph speed limit law is one tool to slow us all down a little and return some measure of civility, safety and serenity to our lakes and to help us to continue to attract the broadest market of visitors."
So any boat that is bigger than hers is too big. The real Winnfabs just showed their hand and continue to do so. Keep talking Sandy....... These words will come back to bite you

I would PAY to debate her one-on-one with this issue.
lawn psycho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2011, 01:28 PM   #5
gtagrip
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 301
Thanks: 115
Thanked 75 Times in 52 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawn psycho View Post
I would PAY to debate her one-on-one with this issue.
So would I! Where do I sign up?
gtagrip is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 01-12-2011, 11:45 PM   #6
classic22
Member
 
classic22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Alton Bay
Posts: 40
Thanks: 6
Thanked 81 Times in 13 Posts
Default chubbs Peterson

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty View Post
Thank you "ronc4424" for posting that very well written article!

Below is the photo of Warren Hutchins, left, and Weldon Bosworth who discuss why it would be bad to change the current 45/30 mph limits already established on Lake Winnipesaukee:

CLICK ON PHOTO TO READ ARTICLE:

The picture of Warrens hand in this pic reminds me of Chubb Petersons hand from the movie Happy Gilmore. LOL I couldnt resist!
classic22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2011, 09:48 AM   #7
ApS
Senior Member
 
ApS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Winnipesaukee & Florida
Posts: 4,495
Thanks: 931
Thanked 433 Times in 317 Posts
Talking It's Sandy Who Follows Rusty McClear...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawn psycho View Post
I would PAY to debate her one-on-one with this issue.
I can understand a debate—too bad those aren't Sandy's words!
ApS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2011, 10:15 AM   #8
Rusty
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,028
Thanks: 603
Thanked 686 Times in 424 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by classic22 View Post
The picture of Warrens hand in this pic reminds me of Chubb Petersons hand from the movie Happy Gilmore. LOL I couldnt resist!
You are very observant, there is a resemblance between them.

It also looks like Weldon Bosworth is a little bored with what Warren Hutchins is talking about. It looks like he is sleeping.

Rusty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2011, 11:55 AM   #9
hazelnut
Senior Member
 
hazelnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,348
Blog Entries: 3
Thanks: 504
Thanked 461 Times in 161 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty View Post
You are very observant, there is a resemblance between them.

It also looks like Weldon Bosworth is a little bored with what Warren Hutchins is talking about. It looks like he is sleeping.



Awesome post! That is laugh out loud funny stuff there. Thanks for the morning laugh. Day 2 of a snow day. Three kids all under 8 years old and I. What to do? Right now they are building their snow fort. Thank god for snow to entertain them.
hazelnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2011, 03:26 AM   #10
ApS
Senior Member
 
ApS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Winnipesaukee & Florida
Posts: 4,495
Thanks: 931
Thanked 433 Times in 317 Posts
Post Media Seem to Agree...

Rusty McLear:

Quote:
"More and more, larger and larger, faster and faster boats vying for the same space cannot continue. The 45/30 mph speed limit law is one tool to slow us all down a little and return some measure of civility, safety and serenity to our lakes and to help us to continue to attract the broadest market of visitors."
Boston Globe:

“Tolerance is getting lower,’’ said John Fetterman, director for law enforcement for the National Association of State Boating Law Administrators. “As the technology pushes these things faster and faster, there is a public demand for safety.’’
http://www.boston.com/news/local/mas...cus_on_safety/

Quote:
"...boats vying for the same space cannot continue..."
I see Rusty needs no training in the concept of "acres-per-second".

ApS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2011, 08:46 AM   #11
Rusty
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,028
Thanks: 603
Thanked 686 Times in 424 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acres per Second;148226[B
Boston Globe:[/B]

“Tolerance is getting lower,’’ said John Fetterman, director for law enforcement for the National Association of State Boating Law Administrators. “As the technology pushes these things faster and faster, there is a public demand for safety.’’
http://www.boston.com/news/local/mas...cus_on_safety/
Your link didn’t work (for me anyway).

In all fairness APS that article was more about alcohol being a problem that boat speed.

The is the statement that really tells it all: “Coast Guard officials say that alcohol remains the leading contributing factor to boating fatalities.”

Here is more of that article (can't seem to link to it):

In a state historically known for resistance to regulation, New Hampshire legislators turned heads this month when they voted to impose speed limits on the state’s biggest lake, Lake Winnipesaukee. Now, boaters will be restricted to traveling no faster than 45 miles per hour by day and 30 miles per hour at night.
The move comes after a number of highly publicized boating fatalities — including a 2008 case in which Erica Blizzard, a well-known New Hampshire marina operator, was found guilty of negligent homicide for an accident on Lake Winnipesaukee that killed her best friend. Her blood alcohol level had been nearly twice the legal limit, though the jury deadlocked on two alcohol-related counts.
In the aftermath of the tragedies, public calls have gone out across the region for greater safety on waterways, where boats whiz along at higher and higher speeds and drunken boating increasingly is viewed as a scourge and not a summer rite.
“Tolerance is getting lower,’’ said John Fetterman, director for law enforcement for the National Association of State Boating Law Administrators. “As the technology pushes these things faster and faster, there is a public demand for safety.’’
Nationally, recreational boating fatalities have decreased since the 1980s. But boating fatality figures still hover in the double digits in a number of states, including Massachusetts, where there were 10 boating fatalities last year, 13 the year before, and at least six this year, according to fig ures from the state’s Executive Office of Energy and Environmental Affairs.
Coast Guard officials say that alcohol remains the leading contributing factor to boating fatalities.
Now, many say the time has come to further lower the numbers.
Law enforcement has responded with aggressive patrols despite dwindling budgets. This summer, law enforcement officials across the region will participate in Operation Dry Water, a national effort to increase checkpoints for drunk boat captains and educate boaters about the dangers of drinking and boating.
A challenge to reining in drinking and boating lies in the ubiquity of the practice. While a captain may not pilot a boat and drink alcohol, alcohol is allowed on boats — with some exceptions, such as in state parks in Massachusetts.
Also, excessive use can be difficult to detect on the water, where some traditional field sobriety tests — like walking in a straight line — are unusable, officials say.
Increasingly new methods are being employed, including a protocol being released this year by NASBLA that focuses on hand coordination and eye movement.
More difficult to break is the cultural acceptance of drinking and boating.
“Unlike driving, which people see as a means of getting from point A to point B, boating is very much a recreational activity,’’ said Captain Chris Baker of the Massachusetts Environmental Police, which patrols the state’s waterways.

Last edited by Rusty; 01-14-2011 at 09:00 AM. Reason: remove image and link
Rusty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2011, 10:15 AM   #12
Wolfeboro_Baja
Senior Member
 
Wolfeboro_Baja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hopkinton NH
Posts: 395
Thanks: 88
Thanked 80 Times in 46 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty View Post
Your link didn’t work (for me anyway).

In all fairness APS that article was more about alcohol being a problem that boat speed.

(can't seem to link to it):
You mean this link??
http://www.boston.com/news/local/mas...cus_on_safety/
Wolfeboro_Baja is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Wolfeboro_Baja For This Useful Post:
Pontoon Goon (01-28-2011), Rusty (01-14-2011)
Old 01-16-2011, 06:46 AM   #13
ApS
Senior Member
 
ApS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Winnipesaukee & Florida
Posts: 4,495
Thanks: 931
Thanked 433 Times in 317 Posts
Arrow Watch...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty View Post
In all fairness APS that article was more about alcohol being a problem than boat speed.
1) Having read both articles, I noted that both sources had independently printed the phrase "faster and faster".

2) Even during the short period that ice has crept over Lake Winnipesaukee, alcohol has suddenly evolved to become the "faster and faster" cult's biggest problem.

3) Although the link has been "scrubbed" by the local forum in which it appeared, VtSteve and VitaBene have good reason to go silent.

4) SBONH leadership has just scuttled all chances of being relevant on Lake Winnipesaukee.


...watch for it...

......
ApS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2011, 09:06 AM   #14
lawn psycho
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: On the move...
Posts: 987
Thanks: 113
Thanked 248 Times in 133 Posts
Default

APS, those phrases you are referencing were opinions. The MP stats indicate speeding on Winni is not a major issue. On much smaller bodies of water, speed or hp restrictions can make sense HOWEVER, there is a self-regulating effect on those bodies of water.

I hope WinnFabs plays the "bigger and bigger" card. That's the part just below the surface I am ready to pounce on as will many others. Go look at all the marinas right now with shrink wrapped and stored boats. Think how much $$$$$$$ the marinas make for doing those services every year.
HP restrictions? That's saying the same thing as restricting boat size.

Also, because of the catalytic converter requirement for I/O engines now, the 3.0L is likely being phased out. So now either some boats will only come equipped with 4.3L engines (ie, FASTER AND BIGGER) or boat builders will go to outboards on entry level boats. The boats would then be lighter and FASTER. How's that for ironic?

If the speed limit was the holy grail of tranquility to Lake Winni, then why was the Barber's pole NWZ requested? I don't know why the papers didn't capitalize on that fact. THAT shows a loss of credibility to the SL proponents and that's real evidence. The SL can't work and fail at the same time.

In all your arguments supporting the SL, you have failed to present objective data that supports the need for a speed limit.
lawn psycho is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to lawn psycho For This Useful Post:
ronc4424 (01-16-2011)
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.

This page was generated in 0.28870 seconds