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Old 10-25-2007, 08:02 AM   #101
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Default An Impaired System...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weirs guy
"...Would the victims families feel better had Mr. LaPointe killed their loved ones with a 20' bow rider.,.."
Does it need mentioning that victims' survivability is devastated with the greater "throw-weight" of the Dominator?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weirs guy
"...we should not lay blame for this at the feet of the kind of vessel being operated in the dark by the drunk..."
"The drunk" was abusing his right to our waters by using an oversized boat traveling at excess speed.

The only possible control we—as boaters and responsible citizens—can exercise over drug and alcohol users is to threaten Lake Winnipesaukee users...

1) with increased insurance premiums (but too many remain afloat).

2) with jail (ineffective..."Call 1-800-DUI-LYRS-Free Case Review").

3) by restricting those boats that have demonstrated low survivability rates whenever traumatically encountered (made necessary by their increasing frequency on protected inland waters).



The Coasties have found heroin used by boaters on waters nearby.

•Gather in groups of four or five.

•Discuss the defense of impaired boaters behind the wheel of 4˝ ton ocean-racers.
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Old 10-26-2007, 10:31 AM   #102
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So your proposed solution to drunk boaters is removal of boats that are dangerous when driven drunk?

And this will also help with heroin impaired boaters?

Did you send this to MADD? They've been barking up the wrong tree all along. Instead of preventing drunk driving, all they had to do is get rid of cars that are dangerous when driven drunk.

Do you think this will work with airplane pilots as well? How about astronauts?
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Old 10-26-2007, 11:10 AM   #103
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Quote:
"The drunk" was abusing his right to our waters by using an oversized boat traveling at excess speed.
I thought he was "abusing his right" by being drunk
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Old 10-26-2007, 12:29 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acres per Second
"The drunk" was abusing his right to our waters by using an oversized boat traveling at excess speed.
Wow. Please, please tell me you just really enjoy a good debate and don't seriously believe that removing ANY type of boat from Winni makes us all safer.

Here's a good idea. I am not a boater, don't own one or want one. I am however a swimmer. My right to swim anywhere I want to in your, err, our lake is seriously threatened by all the boats out there, regardless of size and horsepower. Therefore, I think its a good idea to ban boats from Winni altogether.

After all, the first person in the lake didn't have a boat either....
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Old 10-26-2007, 10:29 PM   #105
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codeman671 wrote in response to APS
Quote:
What are you talking about?The accident was on Lake George and nothing said that it was in a Baja, nor was it related to a poker run. If you are trying to tie some unrelated accident in to Skip's post then at least have the decency to quote it instead of twisting the content of his post.
It's rare that I defend APS, but the link he provided was not to an event on Lake George and it did identify the vessel involved as a Baja and said the boater was attending a poker run....

HOWEVER...

The link was NOT to a media site, it was to another forum and the poster quoted a media source but did not provide a link. Given what passes as fact on this forum I suspect that the original poster may have left out some facts and had an agenda of his/her own.

The accident happened in KENTUCKY! So once again APS has to travel far and wide to find something to make his point.

And since the Baja involved was a 23 foot boat, it would be hard for even APS to classify that boat as an "Ocean Racer"! And once again I will point out there are NO, ZERO, NONE, NADA Ocean Racers on Lake Winnipesaukee!

APS wrote:
Quote:
The Coasties have found heroin used by boaters on waters nearby.
First, heroin is already illegal, did it stop the two men in question from using it while boating? I didn't think so.
Second, Lovel Island is in Boston Harbor, not Center Harbor. Last I looked Lovel Island was about 100 miles away. (again APS has to travel afar to try to make a point)

So are you know saying that everyone operating a Go Fast boat on Lake Winnipesaukee is a drug dealer and high on heroin?

Regarding a possible speed limit on Lake Winnipesaukee. The Marine Patrol has issued it's report and that report repeatedly showed that the use of radar on the water, in a court of law, would not pass the muster.

So at this point I say to the NH legislature, go ahead and pass the 45/25 law. It is unenforceable since the evidence needed to bring a case to trial (radar gun readings) will not and can not be admitted as true and factual!

Of course this is an UNFUNDED MANDATE so that while radar boat crews of two or more MP officers are on each radar vessel, other boats will be tied up and unmanned and other patrol functions of the MP will be ignored.

That means slower response time to calls about rafting in front of island property, slower reponse time to calls about cruisers making large wakes near shore and oh yeah, slower response time to ACTUAL EMERGENCY CALLS...but hey, they got their speed limit law and maybe over the course of an entire season, it might catch one or two boats going more than 45!

Yay for them!
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Old 10-27-2007, 03:39 PM   #106
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Default The link was added after...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Airwaves
codeman671 wrote in response to APS

It's rare that I defend APS, but the link he provided was not to an event on Lake George and it did identify the vessel involved as a Baja and said the boater was attending a poker run....
45!
If you look at APS' post again you will note that it was edited and the link was added to the original post after submission. When I responded to the original post the link was missing, it looked like APS was talking about the previous link from Skip about a boat hitting a diving board which clearly would have made no sense whatsoever. That was my complaint.

The original post was in the morning and the edit was later in the day after my post.

"Last edited by Acres per Second : 10-22-2007 at 05:33 PM. Reason: Tidy, and add missing URL which went AWOL."
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Old 10-27-2007, 03:46 PM   #107
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Question Where is that darn original???

Quote:
Originally Posted by codeman671
...If you look at APS' post again you will note that it was edited and the link was added to the original post after submission...
Some folks have habit of doing that.....
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Old 11-27-2007, 03:29 PM   #108
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Default Update....

This was in todays Boston Globe...

http://www.boston.com/news/local/mai..._deadly_crash/

Definitely going to be an interesting trial... I am very surprised the BAC was .11!

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Old 12-04-2007, 07:38 PM   #109
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Default Needs a good lawyer, Ya Think!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsy
This was in todays Boston Globe...

Definitely going to be an interesting trial... I am very surprised the BAC was .11!

Woodsy
Poor judgement on his part, going out at night rippen around the lake while the cocktails were flowing, been there and done that but have been lucky enough not to hit anything or anyone. I feel bad for the guy, his life is basically over. He will have to spend everything he has to defend himself and end up loosing anyway. Probably not a bad guy, just had a bad idea, I have had a few of those myself. Speaking from personal experience, new laws and rules would not have prevented this, I was YAHOO time for this guy, he was out and about doing his thing, just didn't work out in the best way. I feel sorry for the people that were killed, it was tragic.
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Old 03-12-2008, 06:01 PM   #110
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Default From the Sun-Journal

Motions to suppress have been filed, read the story here
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Old 08-07-2008, 08:33 AM   #111
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Default Long Lake boating accident

Maine judge to allow alcohol test
By Associated Press

Thursday, August 7, 2008 - Added 46m ago
PORTLAND, Maine - A judge says prosecutors may introduce evidence about a Massachusetts boater’s alcohol consumption before a boat collision that killed two people on Maine’s Long Lake.
Prosecutors say Robert LaPointe’s blood-alcohol content was 0.11 percent three hours after the crash last summer. Maine’s limit is 0.08 percent for driving.
Lawyers for LaPointe of Medway, Mass. contend the evidence was unreliable because the blood sample wasn’t refrigerated and wasn’t delivered to a lab until 34 hours after the crash.
Justice Robert Crowley says the defense can make that case during the trial, scheduled for Sept. 8. Crowley hasn’t yet ruled on a motion to move the trial out of Portland. Defense lawyers say media coverage has created a "climate of hostility" toward the defendant






http://www.bostonherald.com/news/reg...11629&srvc=rss
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Old 08-07-2008, 09:19 AM   #112
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Default not good

.11, three hours after??!! Wow! Not good.
The defense attorney is probably right...the sample is not reliable....I want to know the BAC 3 hours earlier.

Last edited by sa meredith; 08-07-2008 at 10:32 AM.
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Old 08-07-2008, 09:39 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa meredith View Post
.11, three hours after??!! Wow! Not good.
The defense attorney is probably right...the sample is not reliable....I want to know the BOC 3 hours earlier.
Blood sample tubes used by law enforcement today do not have to be refrigerated. Some blood cans actually have a mailing label on them.
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Old 08-07-2008, 09:51 AM   #114
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Default No, no

Quote:
Originally Posted by NightWing View Post
Blood sample tubes used by law enforcement today do not have to be refrigerated. Some blood cans actually have a mailing label on them.
No, no, no...you missed my point. I was bing sarcastic. My point was this: if the sample was taken 3 hours after the fact, wouldn't the BAC be higher at the point of impact? Meaning the sample they had was not accurate...the BAC should be higher.

Last edited by sa meredith; 08-07-2008 at 10:33 AM.
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Old 08-07-2008, 10:09 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa meredith View Post
No, no, no...you missed my point. I was bing sarcastic. My point was this: if the sample was taken 3 hours after the fact, wouldn't the BOC be higher at the point of impact? Meaning the sample they had was not accurate...the BOC should be higher.
Yes, it would be higher 3 hours before the sample was taken. Blood alcohol concentration (BAC) is metabolized and reduced by .015% per hour. Therefore, the actual BAC at the time of an event can be predicted by simple math.
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Old 08-07-2008, 11:54 AM   #116
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I sat in on a jury for a trial and was selected as the alternate. I was floored when the guy who blew a .16 failed most of the feild sobriety tests was let off!!!!

The problem for prosecuters now days is that people watch to much CSI and so on and think that cases will be clear cut at the end of the trial. If they have to use their imagination a little to come to the conclusion then they will let the person go. This trial is going to be interesting that is for sure. As has been said above this is going to change his life for ever no matter what the outcome of the trial is.
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Old 08-07-2008, 12:17 PM   #117
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What happened in the 3 hours before the sample was taken? That would be my question as a defense lawyer...
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Old 08-07-2008, 12:56 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chipj29 View Post
What happened in the 3 hours before the sample was taken? That would be my question as a defense lawyer...
Small town area in Maine. First Lapoint and his occupant had to swim to shore. Then there was the expected mayhem that fallowed the accident. Police finally found them and had to get him to the hospital. Probably took them some time to know if they even needed the sample as it was not really until the next day that they knew that there were fatalities involved. The police are so underfunded up there it is not funny. They actually do a great job considdering...
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Old 08-07-2008, 12:58 PM   #119
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Was the operator of the boat immediately arrested and jailed after the accident?

If he were not immediately taken into custody then as a defense lawyer I would probably plant the seed of doubt that after such a tramatic experience he threw back a couple of drinks to calm his nerves before the sample was taken, thus tainting the sample.

If he was taken into custody immediately after the boating accident he's looking at BUI resulting in deaths or whatever the legal charge would be in Maine and the BAC would be tough to dispute.
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Old 09-23-2008, 03:25 AM   #120
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Default Jury Deliberations Ahead...

Or perhaps a 11th-hour plea of guilty...

With only one TV station received at my place on Winnipesaukee—and broadcasting from Maine—I wouldn't have known that this Portland trial is in its final day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
"...If he was taken into custody immediately after the boating accident he's looking at BUI resulting in deaths or whatever the legal charge would be in Maine and the BAC would be tough to dispute..."
There are several BAC aspects disclosed in this week-old article:
http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/ne...-several-rules
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Old 09-24-2008, 08:09 PM   #121
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The Globe is reporting that the jury hung on the jury hung on the manslaughter charges and he was only found guilty of aggravated OUI.
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Old 09-25-2008, 08:42 AM   #122
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Exclamation Here's the story.....

http://www.milforddailynews.com/news...-while-boating

There could be another trial.
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Old 09-25-2008, 01:52 PM   #123
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I hope there is another trial- Lapointe seems like a menace (22 speeding tickets!!)
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Old 09-25-2008, 02:53 PM   #124
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WOW!

I am not going to defend the guy here, he was drunk and ultimately he killed two people and injured another. However, I think people should take emotion out of it and look at this a little more objectively!

So what if he has 22 speeding tickets? We don't know the circumstances surrounding them. 22 tickets since he started driving (the paper says he is 39 so you gotta figure he has been driving 23+ years) or 22 tickets in the last 3-5 years? Where the tickets issued for doing 40MPH in a 30MPH zone? Or were they issued for doing 80MPH in a 55MPH zone? The reason they were not allowed at trial was because the judge doesnt see any relavance to this accident... I tend to agree with the judge.

If he had a prior DWI... well, thats a different story and that would no doubt be admissable!

I also agree with the deadlocked jurors... I would find it hard to convict someone of vehicular manslaughter if the possibility exists that the victim put themselves in harms way... especially when the boat that was struck is black!! Witnesses for both the prosecution and defense testified that the boat that was struck did not have its stern light on! If the light was in fact off, then 14' boat INTENTIONALLY became a hazard to navigation.

Maybe its me, but sitting in the middle of a lake in a black boat with no stern light during no-light or very low-light conditions is just plain STUPID!

I totally agree with the jurors on the aggravated DWI convictions... no way he was sober! I am surprised they only charged him with 2 counts instead of 3! I thought the girl with him on the boat broke her elbow, and that would qualify for a 3rd count.

All in all its a sad situation for all involved.... 2 people dead, and 3 families that will NEVER be the same!!


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Old 09-25-2008, 03:32 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsy View Post
WOW!

I am not going to defend the guy here, he was drunk and ultimately he killed two people and injured another. However, I think people should take emotion out of it and look at this a little more objectively!

So what if he has 22 speeding tickets? We don't know the circumstances surrounding them. 22 tickets since he started driving (the paper says he is 39 so you gotta figure he has been driving 23+ years) or 22 tickets in the last 3-5 years? Where the tickets issued for doing 40MPH in a 30MPH zone? Or were they issued for doing 80MPH in a 55MPH zone? The reason they were not allowed at trial was because the judge doesnt see any relavance to this accident... I tend to agree with the judge.

If he had a prior DWI... well, thats a different story and that would no doubt be admissable!

I also agree with the deadlocked jurors... I would find it hard to convict someone of vehicular manslaughter if the possibility exists that the victim put themselves in harms way... especially when the boat that was struck is black!! Witnesses for both the prosecution and defense testified that the boat that was struck did not have its stern light on! If the light was in fact off, then 14' boat INTENTIONALLY became a hazard to navigation.

Maybe its me, but sitting in the middle of a lake in a black boat with no stern light during no-light or very low-light conditions is just plain STUPID!

I totally agree with the jurors on the aggravated DWI convictions... no way he was sober! I am surprised they only charged him with 2 counts instead of 3! I thought the girl with him on the boat broke her elbow, and that would qualify for a 3rd count.

All in all its a sad situation for all involved.... 2 people dead, and 3 families that will NEVER be the same!!


Woodsy

Woodsy I am not going to argue the no stern light issue, that is horrible. Also youa are correct-the boat was black. That being said, he was going too fast.... for the conditions because if the conditions allowed (moon) he would have seen the other boat. He was drunk (proven guilty), therefore IMO, a menace. Regardless, I don't want to share the lake with him!

I am not saying he was guilty, only that I hope they re-try it.

Regarding the tickets, I am 44, have a Class A CDL, drive between 40-50K miles a year and have 2 speeding tickets (and I am no slowpoke!). When I see 22 tickets I wonder how many times did he not get stopped.
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Old 09-25-2008, 05:48 PM   #126
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Woodsy

The defendant testified that shortly before the accident he was stopped to make a phone call and the black boat passed him with no lights on.

That means that when he took off at high speed a minute later he KNEW there was a black boat with no lights out in front of him!
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Old 09-25-2008, 06:58 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear Islander View Post
Woodsy

The defendant testified that shortly before the accident he was stopped to make a phone call and the black boat passed him with no lights on.

That means that when he took off at high speed a minute later he KNEW there was a black boat with no lights out in front of him!

I think one of the comments made on that site about him wanting to catch up to the other boat probably were spot on. Speculation, but not a bad one.

The 22 tickets is obviously an indication of a problem. He got Caught 22 times, although we don't know the specifics. At any rate, that's quite a bit, and you'd think he'd learn at some point. It didn't help the jury, but we spectators have an advantage there.

The drinking is clearly an issue, as it is in many of these cases. I hope he never gets on a lake again, or even in a car. Although I'm sure he's quite nice and sincere, I'm not buying the story.
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Old 09-25-2008, 10:19 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VtSteve View Post
The 22 tickets is obviously an indication of a problem. He got Caught 22 times, although we don't know the specifics. At any rate, that's quite a bit, and you'd think he'd learn at some point. It didn't help the jury, but we spectators have an advantage there.
Seems there's plenty of blame to pass about. A boat w/o lights (if true) ... just plain stupid. Drunken boater ... more than stupid. And 22 speeding tickets ? Speaks to me of incompetent speeding. Where do you go to get 22 tickets and not learn there's a speed trap ? How unaware of your surroundings must you be to get caught 22 times ? I agree they don't mean much re: this specific incident but really....
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Old 09-26-2008, 07:28 AM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mee-n-Mac View Post
Seems there's plenty of blame to pass about. A boat w/o lights (if true) ... just plain stupid. Drunken boater ... more than stupid. And 22 speeding tickets ? Speaks to me of incompetent speeding. Where do you go to get 22 tickets and not learn there's a speed trap ? How unaware of your surroundings must you be to get caught 22 times ? I agree they don't mean much re: this specific incident but really....

Exactly. It makes it so much easier to believe what's been said about him too.
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Old 09-26-2008, 09:30 AM   #130
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Taking this one step at a time, the aggravated OUI charge seemes like a slam dunk. He was clearly over the limit, he hit the other boat, people were killed, go directly to jail.

The other charges require the jurors to make judgement calls. Was he being reckless and negligent or just careless. Did the victim contribute to his own death by having no lights. Think of people you know and imagine them on the jury. They see this man in front of them, he doesn't look like a bad man, he looks like someone that had a few too many and made a mistake. They don't know the victims, after a long trial they know him. It's not hard to believe that few would feel that two guilty charges was enough.

I don't know all the facts, I didn't sit through the trial. But I can't see how operating a boat at speed, at night and while drunk isn't reckless and grossly negligent.

It is strange that the speed of the boat could not be determined more accurately than 50-65 MPH.
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Old 09-26-2008, 09:48 AM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear Islander View Post
Woodsy

The defendant testified that shortly before the accident he was stopped to make a phone call and the black boat passed him with no lights on.

That means that when he took off at high speed a minute later he KNEW there was a black boat with no lights out in front of him!
Not trying to defend the guy, as clearly he was in the wrong. But in that article, I read that the boat passed him then turned away. My guess is that he thought the boat had continued on in another direction.
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Old 09-26-2008, 01:32 PM   #132
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I would like to point out that I am pretty sure a speed limit would not have prevented this. Obviously after 21 tickets he did not slow down on the road since he got his 22nd. I think we can agree the threat of a $75 fine for speeding is not going to get his attention.

Someone mentioned he probably is not very good at being aware of his surroundings. That sounds right on to me. Whether in the car or on the water.

Being .11 is impared not incapable. If you make good choices sober you can still make them at .11 (Just a little harder, And not that I condone it...) It sounds like alcohol is not really the issue here just a series of bad decisions.
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Old 09-26-2008, 01:44 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Fun View Post
I would like to point out that I am pretty sure a speed limit would not have prevented this. Obviously after 21 tickets he did not slow down on the road since he got his 22nd. I think we can agree the threat of a $75 fine for speeding is not going to get his attention.

Someone mentioned he probably is not very good at being aware of his surroundings. That sounds right on to me. Whether in the car or on the water.

Being .11 is impared not incapable. If you make good choices sober you can still make them at .11 (Just a little harder, And not that I condone it...) It sounds like alcohol is not really the issue here just a series of bad decisions.
Except of course that if Long Lake had a speed limit he would have trailered his boat to a different lake.
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Old 09-26-2008, 02:14 PM   #134
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Except of course that if Long Lake had a speed limit he would have trailered his boat to a different lake.
Why?

The speeding tickets speak otherwise...
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Old 09-26-2008, 02:30 PM   #135
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Except of course that if Long Lake had a speed limit he would have trailered his boat to a different lake.
I think your wrong. My point was he has demonstrated he could care less about a speed limit. That is proven by getting 22 tickets. Speed limit or not he was going to do exactly what he did. I am also stating I doubt alcohol was a major contributor to this. He probably would have made the same bad decision anyway.

While I think your correct a few boaters would go elsewhere most would just continue on and either pay the fine or actually just slow down. Some people contend the lake would be empty and business would hurt but that is not my opinion. There is just no alternative to Winni that is even close.
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Old 09-26-2008, 03:01 PM   #136
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Please don't go down the speed limit rat hole. This thread will get moved and banned.

4Fun, I disagree with your assessment of .11 BAC. First, the level was higher than .11 likely it was .15. Some people may be capable at that level in car with ideal circumstances. But this was boat not a car, it was dark, boats don't have headlights. There are no lanes, boats can come from any direction. Even the most experienced recreational boater has 1/10 the experience driving a boat as driving a car. You can't really use the same scale. In my opinion driving a boat, at planning speed, at night and at .15 BAC is reckless.
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Old 09-26-2008, 06:29 PM   #137
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Question Or maybe ...

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Originally Posted by Bear Islander View Post
Except of course that if Long Lake had a speed limit he would have trailered his boat to a different lake.
Does anyone know why LaPointe was on the lake ? Was he visiting friends or does he have a place there ? Seems as likely to me that had he had a different boat, more "appropriate" for the lake, and then gone out drinking as he said he did I might expect pretty much the same result.

Then again perhaps the victims speedboat (14' with a 115 HP) might have been traded in for a poontoon boat. We could have had a small boat crashing into a poontoon at perhaps "low speed", certainly nobody could ever get killed that way.

Then again .....
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Old 09-26-2008, 06:30 PM   #138
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Not that it really matters, but if people really wanna drag speed into the issue, the victim's boat is likely faster than the Sunsation. A 14 foot, flat bottom Glasspar with a Merc 115 (the old "Tower of Power", everyone knows these were very under-rated for HP) on the transom is a very fast boat.
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Old 09-26-2008, 07:14 PM   #139
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Dave:

I believe the Sunsation had over 800 horse hanging off the back of its stern. This is a jet that is clearly capable of moving faster than the boat that was hit. Who needs 800 horse power on Long Lake? Hopefully, they try this jerk again. He should spend a long time in jail.
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Old 09-26-2008, 08:39 PM   #140
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Dave:

I believe the Sunsation had over 800 horse hanging off the back of its stern. This is a jet that is clearly capable of moving faster than the boat that was hit. Who needs 800 horse power on Long Lake? Hopefully, they try this jerk again. He should spend a long time in jail.

I agree, he should spend a long time in jail.

Maybe he used the boat on Sebago more than Long Lake. It's quite a bit bigger, very wide open (more so than the Broads), and connected to Long Lake. It also can get very rough. I could see why some people would like a boat like that there, even though it's not my scene. A boat with 800HP would not be at all out of place on Sebago and would certainly not be the most powerful either.
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Old 09-27-2008, 08:55 AM   #141
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Dave:

I believe the Sunsation had over 800 horse hanging off the back of its stern. This is a jet that is clearly capable of moving faster than the boat that was hit. Who needs 800 horse power on Long Lake? Hopefully, they try this jerk again. He should spend a long time in jail.
Not a jet boat. On calm water, I'd bet the little outboard would clean his clock. The Sun is a pretty heavy ride. But speed or boats isn't the issue here.

Nobody will know apparently what the real reasons were. Did he go after the little boat because of the drive by? The lights being out? Who knows. All they can deal with are two deaths and his BAL.

Regardless, I wonder why he still has any license or insurance with all those speeding tickets. All the jury can do is decide on the penalty for his drinking and the accident. They cannot speculate that he's a dangerous and arrogant person that needs to be taught a lesson, but we can. I guess that's why the justice system exists.
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Old 09-27-2008, 11:19 AM   #142
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Dave:

Good point. I think Sebago is connected to Long Lake through lockes. VtSteve, you may be correct on the top speed of these boats....I'm not an expert. The bottom line is that this guy and people like him give all boaters a black eye. It is frustrating to see him get away with murder. Hopefully, they try him for the second death.
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Old 09-27-2008, 02:34 PM   #143
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Dave:

Good point. I think Sebago is connected to Long Lake through lockes.
It is. I go through the Songo Lock often. It's a really nice trip up and down the Songo River (and Brandy Pond) between the two lakes. It's like Sally's Gut*20, but not rocky, except for the north end (and there it's just a little rocky but well-marked).

Compared to Winnipesuakee, Long is uncrowded and Sebago is desolate.
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Old 09-29-2008, 11:34 AM   #144
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Please don't go down the speed limit rat hole. This thread will get moved and banned.

4Fun, I disagree with your assessment of .11 BAC. First, the level was higher than .11 likely it was .15. Some people may be capable at that level in car with ideal circumstances. But this was boat not a car, it was dark, boats don't have headlights. There are no lanes, boats can come from any direction. Even the most experienced recreational boater has 1/10 the experience driving a boat as driving a car. You can't really use the same scale. In my opinion driving a boat, at planning speed, at night and at .15 BAC is reckless.

We have the exact opposite opinion on this I have always felt that driving a car was WAY more dangerous than driving a boat drunk. Things are going by within just a few feet at 60+ MPH. Reaction time is critical. Milliseconds really.

In a boat its not really reaction time it's decision making capabilities. If you have to react real quick when driving a boat it's ALWAYS going to be because of a previous bad decision. IE: missed marker, lost, too fast at night etc.

It's just different that's all. Not really a good idea either way.....
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Old 09-29-2008, 11:48 AM   #145
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Default Well...

Neither is a good idea, but, seeing as though it has been mentioned...
I would say, after a few drinks, give the wheel of the car. The boat??? Not so much. A car is something I have driven, day in and day out, multiple times each day, for the better part of 25 years (age 16 thru 41). And cars have brakes!
The boat???? Have to worry about navigation, markers, other boats, depth, docking...and in an emergency situation or engine failure, in a car you can probably wiggle out of it. On the boat? You're gonna need some help.
Anyway....this is a terrible situation, and the families of the victims must be going thru hell.
I would further imagine that, although it is another state, there are families who boat on our fair lake, that are closely following the developments of this story. (before their trial starts???)
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Old 09-29-2008, 02:02 PM   #146
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4fun
I was thinking more or less like sa-meredith. Most people have a ton more experience driving a car, a boat is usually a seasonal weekend novelty.

But I can see your point as well. Cars traffic is a lot denser than boats.
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Old 09-30-2008, 06:15 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by VtSteve View Post
"...On calm water, I'd bet the little outboard would clean his clock..."
This doesn't appear to have been a race: both victims died as a result of the Dominator's props. Both boats were correctly positioned in this photo just before the moment of impact.



It is most likely that the boat was stationary and, as Dave R will confirm, even anchoring at night is legal in Maine waters. Maine needs a "Rule 6".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsy
"...So what if he has 22 speeding tickets? We don't know the circumstances surrounding them..."
...and...

Quote:
Originally Posted by VtSteve View Post
"...The 22 tickets is obviously an indication of a problem. He got Caught 22 times, although we don't know the specifics. At any rate, that's quite a bit, and you'd think he'd learn at some point. It didn't help the jury, but we spectators have an advantage there.
It's worse than all that: it's 22 speeding convictions. In actuality, what were the total number of citations ?

Excerpt:

Quote:
"...And four convictions for failing to stop for a police officer and two license revocations for being a habitual motor vehicle offender, according to Massachusetts state records..."


That record is typically withheld from the jury for the trial, but is weighed later by the sentencing judge. Another article says he can be expected to be sentenced for "over 1 year" in jail.
http://www.sunjournal.com/story/2846...2_lake_deaths/

Excerpted:
Quote:
"LaPointe, 39, was found guilty Wednesday of two counts of aggravated drunken driving in connection with the boating deaths in Harrison last year of Terry Raye Trott and Suzanne Groetzinger. A mistrial was declared on two charges of manslaughter after the jury deadlocked on those and a charge of reckless conduct with a dangerous weapon...'If we get a sentence we think is the right sentence, certainly that in my view is a successful outcome,' Norbert said. Sentences for manslaughter in a drunken driving death and for aggravated drunken driving that leads to a death are often similar, and when convicted for both, are served simultaneously, she said."
I never could understand "concurrent" jail times—sitting in jail and "getting credit" for two (2) crimes?
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Old 10-01-2008, 07:59 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by Acres per Second View Post
This doesn't appear to have been a race: both victims died as a result of the Dominator's props. Both boats were correctly positioned in this photo just before the moment of impact.



It is most likely that the boat was stationary and, as Dave R will confirm, even anchoring at night is legal in Maine waters. Maine needs a "Rule 6".


...and...


It's worse than all that: it's 22 speeding convictions. In actuality, what were the total number of citations ?

Excerpt:



That record is typically withheld from the jury for the trial, but is weighed later by the sentencing judge. Another article says he can be expected to be sentenced for "over 1 year" in jail.
http://www.sunjournal.com/story/2846...2_lake_deaths/

Excerpted:

I never could understand "concurrent" jail times—sitting in jail and "getting credit" for two (2) crimes?
Testimony at trial said that Mr. Trotts boat was under way with no stern light on. If you do anchore in Maine (or any other state) you are required to have a anchor light ON at night.

The reason that it is concurent and I am no lawer is that he did not commit two crimes even though he was conviced of two counts of OUI, he commited one crime. He drank, he drove his boat to fast.

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Old 10-01-2008, 08:11 AM   #149
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This is a quote from the Milford Daily article previously cited.

"A few minutes later, just after LaPointe had throttled up and the boat was skimming across the surface of the lake, his boat ran up and over the back of Trott's boat. Groetzinger died instantly when she was nearly decapitated by one of LaPointe's propellers, a state medical examiner testified. A propeller severed Trott's lower back and buttocks, and his cause of death was a combination of that injury and drowning."

Here's the cite again for the article.

http://www.milforddailynews.com/news...-while-boating
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Old 10-01-2008, 01:18 PM   #150
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Thanks Lake Pilot I did not see that and have edited my post to reflect your artical.
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Old 10-05-2008, 01:42 PM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakepilot View Post
This is a quote from the Milford Daily article previously cited.

"A few minutes later, just after LaPointe had throttled up and the boat was skimming across the surface of the lake, his boat ran up and over the back of Trott's boat. Groetzinger died instantly when she was nearly decapitated by one of LaPointe's propellers, a state medical examiner testified. A propeller severed Trott's lower back and buttocks, and his cause of death was a combination of that injury and drowning."

Here's the cite again for the article.

http://www.milforddailynews.com/news...-while-boating
Sounds like a real peach, and with prior offenses up the ying yang. Perhaps if it's only one year he gets, the families can beat the daylights out of him every day.
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Old 11-12-2008, 06:03 PM   #152
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Default Lapointe receives 3 1/2 years

From today's Foster's/Citizen, Lapointe is sentenced to 3 1/2 years.

I think the judge's comments at the end of the article clearly articulate the type of individual Lapointe is.

My condolences to the victims families, hopefully they can have some type of closure now.

The article can be read HERE.



A much more complete story can be read HERE at the on-line edition of the Portland Herald.

Last edited by Skip; 11-13-2008 at 08:04 AM.
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Old 11-13-2008, 10:46 AM   #153
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WOW!

II also agree with the deadlocked jurors... I would find it hard to convict someone of vehicular manslaughter if the possibility exists that the victim put themselves in harms way... especially when the boat that was struck is black!! Witnesses for both the prosecution and defense testified that the boat that was struck did not have its stern light on! If the light was in fact off, then 14' boat INTENTIONALLY became a hazard to navigation.

Maybe its me, but sitting in the middle of a lake in a black boat with no stern light during no-light or very low-light conditions is just plain STUPID!
Woodsy,

If it was a black car with no lights on stopped on the road hit by a tractor trailer truck doing 100 mph and being driven by a drunk driver it would be vehicular manslaughter.
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Old 11-13-2008, 11:51 AM   #154
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Woodsy,

If it was a black car with no lights on stopped on the road hit by a tractor trailer truck doing 100 mph and being driven by a drunk driver it would be vehicular manslaughter.
I suspect the truck driver would be found guilty of the same counts as the boater was....and here is why!

In order for your scenario to happen, a black car would have to be PARKED in the middle of a dark road, with no lights no hazards on or reflectors visible.

Because the vehicle was parked in the road with no lights or reflectors visible, there is a certain liability on the driver of the black car, regardless of the condition of the truck driver. The driver of the automobile put himself and the truck driver in harms way.

Cars & trucks have headlights... they also have reflectors! This is to insure that you can see the other vehicle at night at a distance great enough to avoid a collision. There are all sorts of specifications automobile manufacturers have to meet with regards to headlights, reflector size (sq in) and visibility over distance. Boats don't have headlights or reflectors like cars do...... but they are supposed to have thier navigation lights ON!

The rules for boating and driving are different regardless of how many parallels one can draw between the two.

Either way, the jury deadlocked on the vehicular manslaughter charge. I would guess that jury deadlocked because some of the jurors (not all obv) felt there was some responsibility on the part of the victims because there was reasonable doubt that the stern light was on when the collision occured. If in fact the victim had shut off his stern light, that action placed him and his friend in harms way. By maritime law they WILLFULLY became a hazard to navigation!

I am the biggest advocate of drunk trumps all circumstances! I suspect had this guy been sober there might not have been an accident at all, and if there was he wouldn't have been charged with ANYTHING! It would just be a horrible accident... more than likely the victims would have been blamed for sitting out in the middle of a lake with no navigation lights on. But thats not what happened! But he decided to drive drunk and unfortunately he killed two people and injured a third. These drunk driving accidents occur every day in all types of vehicles.... Unless we eliminate all vehicles from the planet (or all alcohol and other drugs) it will continue to occur. You cannot legislate common sense and you can't fix stupid!

The guy was drunk and found guilty. I dont know the guy, but I agree with Skip that the judges comments at the end of the article speak volumes to this guys character. I have no sympathy for him.

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Old 11-14-2008, 02:22 AM   #155
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Default Great Post!

Woodsy,

That was one outstanding post! A well thought out and fair assessment regarding both sides.

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Old 11-14-2008, 08:37 AM   #156
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Thumbs up Woodsy

Great post. Common sense prevail with the Maine judge.
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Old 11-15-2008, 04:51 PM   #157
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I have to beleive that they got this one correct. If you look historically at drunk driving convictions in Maine then he got about the average. I hope that this accident does not forever damage my ability to boat responsibly in my boat of choice.
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Old 04-12-2009, 04:13 AM   #158
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Default As a result of this case...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiofn View Post
"...I hope that this accident does not forever damage my ability to boat responsibly in my boat of choice..."
Don't know about "forever" or "choice", but "responsible" Maine citizens are still trying to "damage" certain boater "abilities" in Maine's Legislature this past week.
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Old 04-21-2009, 03:59 PM   #159
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Don't know about "forever" or "choice", but "responsible" Maine citizens are still trying to "damage" certain boater "abilities" in Maine's Legislature this past week.
Does that mean that only small boat owners will be able to run over other boats while driving drunk? I vote that all drunk boaters be restricted to 25 mph all the time if in a boat 12' to 17.5', 20 mph for drunks in boats 18' to 22', and headway speed only for all drunks in boats 25' or over. Note the special exemption for cruisers or open fishing boats of any size.

There were several splendid examples just last year of accidents involving boaters that don't operate crafts within your relatively narrow field of vision.
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Old 04-21-2009, 04:06 PM   #160
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Default First fatality on NH waters this season....

Quote:
Originally Posted by VtSteve View Post
Does that mean that only small boat owners will be able to run over other boats while driving drunk? I vote that all drunk boaters be restricted to 25 mph all the time if in a boat 12' to 17.5', 20 mph for drunks in boats 18' to 22', and headway speed only for all drunks in boats 25' or over. Note the special exemption for cruisers or open fishing boats of any size.

There were several splendid examples just last year of accidents involving boaters that don't operate crafts within your relatively narrow field of vision.

Good points Steve.

And as the investigation wraps up you will unfortunately be able to add yet another example. Yep, the first fatality on the water has already occured in New Hampshire so early this season.

The vessel? A canoe.

Probable main aggravating factor? Excessive use of alcohol.

Alcohol is an equal opportunity killer, regardless of the type of watercraft it is imbibed to excess in.
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Old 04-21-2009, 04:32 PM   #161
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And so it begins.

One point I'd like to make clear. The type of person that LaPointe is, and I strictly judge this by his behavior in the past, as well as the Judge's statements. I realize that idiots like this ruin the whole show for everyone. I also realize that having a big loud boat makes him an obvious target. But not to generalize, for every LaPointe on the water, I see many more in everyday recreational craft. Every single weekend there are boaters too numerous to count breaking all kinds of laws. Yes, at night as well.

I wouldn't have thought people could look past the obvious on LaPointe.

1) Over the limit
2) Arrogance even in the courtroom
3) Boat was aptly named No Patience
4) Numerous serious traffic infractions

One more note. For every LaPointe in a go fast on the water, I can find you a dozen or more people over the limit in cruisers as well. Maybe even a canoe or two

Yeah, I get it that big and fast don't mix with booze and drugs, and that the margin of error is slimmer. But the problem isn't with the boat. He even failed to wear a lanyard, as evidenced by where his boat ended up that night, some 160' in the woods.

Until the patrols are able to target the people and not the boats, the problems will continue. But at least they target a group I'm not in, sure does take the pressure off the rest of us.
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Old 05-17-2009, 09:49 AM   #162
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Lightbulb Before Entering Our WATERY Highways...

Quote:
Originally Posted by VtSteve View Post
"...Until the patrols are able to target the people and not the boats, the problems will continue..."
After a Google search on another boating matter, I tend to agree with you.

Like LaPointe, this boater had a history of drunk driving and speeding on the highway. With a borrowed boat, he later hit+ran across another boat, killing a passenger with the outdrive and seriously injured a passenger accompanying him.

Shouldn't DWI histories be reviewed before granting a New Hampshire boating certificate?
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Old 05-17-2009, 11:21 AM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acres per Second View Post
After a Google search on another boating matter, I tend to agree with you.

Like LaPointe, this boater had a history of drunk driving and speeding on the highway. With a borrowed boat, he later hit+ran across another boat, killing a passenger with the outdrive and seriously injured a passenger accompanying him.

Shouldn't DWI histories be reviewed before granting a New Hampshire boating certificate?
I would think so, but I don't want to encourage legislators or anyone else to come up with more regulations. While this is a pretty good suggestion, it would be better left to people that at least appear to know what they're doing.

Relatively few boating accidents happen each year believe it or not. What boaters should do is have long talks with the MP on their respective lakes, since it's apparent they are not around when the majority of unsafe activities happen. I tired to do this last year out of utter frustration, we'll see how it worked out this season I guess.
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Old 02-04-2010, 02:50 PM   #164
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From Fosters.com:

http://fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...S_01/100209781

I like the last sentence of the article.
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Old 02-04-2010, 04:51 PM   #165
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From the article linked above;
Quote:
Prosecutors and relatives of the victims say they will oppose any efforts by LaPointe to be released from prison early.
I certainly hope they are successful in blocking his early release!!
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