And just like that BOOM

[mhtranger]

I guess my comment about communism stands true. Just like being on Facebook and their fact checkers. Doesn’t fit your narrative silence the few. Instead of having a conversation about issues the moderator decides to lock the other thread. Good job. I thought the people on this forum were adults but I guess I was mistaken.
I will just keep reading here and keep my comments to myself as not to hurt peoples feelings.
Any takers on how long this will stay up?

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by mhtranger

I guess my comment about communism stands true. Just like being on Facebook and their fact checkers. Doesn’t fit your narrative silence the few. Instead of having a conversation about issues the moderator decides to lock the other thread. Good job. I thought the people on this forum were adults but I guess I was mistaken.
I will just keep reading here and keep my comments to myself as not to hurt peoples feelings.
Any takers on how long this will stay up?

You missed the rules change handed down from the most prolific oracle on the forum:

It isn't in the Lakes Region.
It isn't in the State...
And it isn't even in New England.

The issue is non-matter for us.

This is what the world is coming to.

God help us all,,,

[ITD]

This won't stay up long, nor should it. An overwhelming majority of users here voted a while ago to request that national issues not be discussed here. Many voted that way because sooner rather than later butthurt happens and spreads like wild fire. Local issues wrt the lake are generally tolerated.

The webmaster is pretty even keeled with this stuff and the rules are clear. There are other places to discuss these things, better to take it there.

I participated in that one, it's done now. I'm over it, I hope you are too, just let it go.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by ITD

An overwhelming majority of users here voted a while ago to request that national issues not be discussed here.

I guess I missed that one,,,

Sad to know we prefer to be isolated, as if we can wall off the rest of the country.

But in a way not surprising, we are clearly evolving into a very me-centric society and this would follow perfectly.

Well if thats the rule so be it, I will try to remember to never discuss anything they is not 100% grounded to NH. America be damned.

[TiltonBB]

This website exists for a purpose and it serves that purpose very well.

Over many years it has been stated and restated that discussions should be limited to issues involving the Lakes Region.

There are plenty of places and websites to discuss and vent about numerous other topics from politics and crime to national events. This is not that place and I am sure you can find another place to make your feelings and opinions public.

Please have some respect for the Webmaster. He does a great job.

[fatlazyless]

At the Market Basket in Plymouth, NH, I was and am HAPPY with concealed carry.

It is open carry that is not appreciated. So, what is the difference between open carry and concealed carry?

And as far as I know, this open carry/concealed carry has not been reported with regard to this recent case of someone actually shooting the shooter .... but ..... more than most likely .... this here shooter must have been shot by someone with a CONCEALED carry ...... because everyone with an open carry is automatically a rotten inaccurate shot! ......

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

This website exists for a purpose and it serves that purpose very well.

Over many years it has been stated and restated that discussions should be limited to issues involving the Lakes Region.

There are plenty of places and websites to discuss and vent about numerous other topics from politics and crime to national events. This is not that place and I am sure you can find another place to make your feelings and opinions public.

Please have some respect for the Webmaster. He does a great job.

Its not the webmaster that I have concern for,,,

Some our fellow Americans and New Englanders cause me great concern!

But thats not specific to the Lakes Region, so best I say nothing.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by ITD

This won't stay up long, nor should it. An overwhelming majority of users here voted a while ago to request that national issues not be discussed here. Many voted that way because sooner rather than later butthurt happens and spreads like wild fire. Local issues wrt the lake are generally tolerated.

The webmaster is pretty even keeled with this stuff and the rules are clear. There are other places to discuss these things, better to take it there.

I participated in that one, it's done now. I'm over it, I hope you are too, just let it go.

Maybe you are right that this one should also be taken down as the games and nonsense are just bottomless,,,

I'm at the point of believing some people simply post to pour gasoline and are not truly invested. Its just a demented game for them.

Some days i truly think the interweb was at its finest when all people did was send silly nonsense to each other,,,

It seems like honest opinions and people with any degree of integrity or conviction in their communications are becoming fewer and fewer.

Either that or America is evolving into something very troubling, as the notion that we can only discuss regional matters as anything else has no impact on us locally is a bit absurd to me. But as they say, rules are rules.

[SailinAway]

Just so you know, the webmaster has shut down conversations on "both sides of the aisle."

It can be hard to draw a dividing line between local, national, and global issues. I would love to discuss the climate crisis, because it has very large local impacts and those are going to increase dramatically, but apparently my comments about this were judged unrelated to our area or the purpose of this forum. Maybe there's an assumption that things related to the Winnipesaukee area should be positive? And yet we know that that's not realistic.

Some have stated that there are other places to discuss these things. I've actually looked for other places to have fruitful exchanges with thoughtful people. I haven't found any.

The main point though is that in our current society we have two diametrically opposed ways of being and thinking about society, and that division has grown so wide that it's practically impossible to have a discussion that leads to any kind of understanding, meeting of the minds, or solutions. Thus such discussions may only deepen the divide and the acrimony. What's the point if I say all gun manufacturers should be shut down and you say all citizens should be armed? That's not going anywhere.

However, I believe recent studies have found that when people meet in person and get to know each other, there's a much greater chance that they will come to understand each other's views. That doesn't happen in an online forum, where people's self-censorship and listening skills are low.

[mowtorman]

I agree.... the great divide. It's simple...Pink Floyd was spot on 50 years ago.

Personal safety is a local issue...Laconia has violence and a strong drug culture.

A convenience store manager in Laconia was held up at 2 am with a butter knife. He told the robber all he had was $20 and the man said he needed it. Police picked him up a block away.

Hiding your head in the sand won't help.

The mighty webmaster behind the curtain is great. He doesn't need 20 assistants. This is a great resource. A forum is often a place where things are contested. This feels at times like watching the Beijing Olympics.... everything was swell as long as no one talked about the Uighurs and Tibet, the same feeling I get watching Leave it to Beaver.

[John Mercier]

It doesn't relate because NH, and the Lakes Region, doesn't have a particular history of violence; firearm-related or not.

There is no NH legislation that would come from this incident or any other of the countless media newscasts on the subject, that would even impact the Lakes Region in the most minor of issues.

NH's protection of personal firearm ownership, and the laws/regulations that stem from it are governed by NH Constitution Part First Article 2-a... making personal firearm ownership a property right.

2-a is only overridden when someone else has a stronger property right.

For instance, I have the right to free speech... I do not have the right to free speech while occupying someone else's property without the expectation of removal as a trespasser.

The reason that the webmaster, here or on Facebook/etc, has the power to block a thread, remove a post, shutter an account, etc... it is their property.

The property right is the subject of Part First Article 2... of which the above spoken of 2-a is a subset.

Market Basket, or any other private property owner, has those property rights... and they can never be overcome by the directive that these people seek.

The residents of NH are never going to implement legislation that suggests as long as I am carrying that I can go wherever I want and not be charged with trespass.

The reason climate change isn't an issue... is because nothing that I, or may anyone, can perceive is going to have one iota on the amount of carbon that we release in the region. But if it were an issue relate to the area... maybe legislation that affects boating or some other related item; then it may make some sense to explore. But beyond that, it just simply is not related to the Lakes Region.

[Lakegeezer]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

The reason climate change isn't an issue... is because nothing that I, or may anyone, can perceive is going to have one iota on the amount of carbon that we release in the region. But if it were an issue relate to the area... maybe legislation that affects boating or some other related item; then it may make some sense to explore. But beyond that, it just simply is not related to the Lakes Region.

Since this is a "boom" note, I'll take it off on a tangent. Climate change is a relevant issue for the lakes region and there is plenty that can and is being done, beyond carbon release. For example, the Loon Preservation Committee grows the loon population in the area using floating nests with sunshades. Climate change is pushing the population north to Canada, eh, and our loon population is much greater here because of LPC. About half the loons hatches are on artificial nests. Another aspect is water quality. Climate change related earlier ice melts and more frequent high-volume rain events are accelerating aging of the lakes. Many groups are involved in slowing the aging through analysis, conservation and regulations. In this forum, it isn't relevant to talk about how the rest of the world is coping with climate change but is a perfect place to discuss local impact and actions.

[SailinAway]

Lakegeezer, I agree wholeheartedly. Any place where people can be sensitized to the climate crisis, like this forum, is important. When it comes to climate, local is global and global is local. We can act individually in our own life, like switching to electric yard machines. We can act locally and beyond by becoming involved in any kind of climate action. It starts with becoming aware of the problem and the urgency of responding to it at any level.

One solution to people posting threads that aren't related to Winnipesaukee would be to have an Off-Topic subforum, which many forums have. Then people who don't enjoy bickering could just not read that subforum. I personally wouldn't read it. Some forums have ultimately gotten rid of off-topic subforums because of the amount of vitriol in them.

Another thing that I would like to see is more creative ideas for creating community across the region. We have subforums here to advertise things for sale, help wanted, etc. I would like to see a service exchange subforum, since there are so many skilled people here. Believe it or not, even I have skills to barter. At the moment I'm bartering legal writing for home maintenance work. I would also like to see a subforum for people who are in need of help, as in "Anybody have a pickup truck to take brush to the dump?" As I said above, getting to know people in person has been shown to help people bridge differences. So these types of subforums could go a long way in overcoming the radical differences among us that emerged in the Covid forum. Some of the amazing help I've received here with my car and home maintenance has come from people who are on the opposite side of the political spectrum, proving my point.

Forums can change over time as people get rid of things that aren't useful or create divisions and they come up with new ideas. Perhaps the webmaster will consider some of these ideas.

Webmaster, I'm officially proposing a new subforum called Service Exchange/Help Needed for volunteer rather than paid services. How about doing this on a trial basis for a few months to see what happens?

[XCR-700]

RE; assumption that electric yard machines are cleaner,

Originally Posted by SailinAway

When it comes to climate, local is global and global is local. We can act individually in our own life, like switching to electric yard machines.

I hope you dont actually believe that electric yard machines are cleaner,,,

When you assess most electric machine options, they might be more convenient, but rarely are they any cleaner when you assess the matter from a cradle to grave perspective.

Most electricity in America comes from burning oil and coal! Sorry thats dirty power.

Even when it comes from solar and wind and hydro or Nuke, its still dirty, its just different dirty. Solar panels too often have a much shorter life than is reported, and then what happens to them, they pile up in land fills as hazardous material, yes HAZARDOUS. And while they can be disassembled and recycled to minimize their environmental impact, it costs more then the panel itself so it mostly doesnt happen!

Same for the batteries all the battery operated devices use, the mining process alone is an environmental nightmare, and then what happens to all those nasty batteries in just an couple of years when they are dead, same thing, into the dump as hazardous materiel they go to poison the environment!

Windmill blades are apparently piling up just as fast as we make new ones and not being recycled due to to the cost.

Bio fuel and alcohol both are far more environmentally damaging than oil pumped out of the ground in the middle east. Both biofuel and alcohol release far more carbon into the air, in their creation than any oil pumped from the ground.

So far the only cleaner fuel is Hydrogen. And its not yet been embraced on a large scale for reasons not fully clear.

So while electric yard machines and cars and other devices may suit your needs because of convenience and simplicity, please do not live under the delusion that they are cleaner (cradle to grave), that is simply marketing hype designed by people that are trying to move your dollars from one companys pocket to another.

Sorry this will not sit well with many, but it in fact FACT.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

RE; assumption that electric yard machines are cleaner, I hope you dont actually believe that electric yard machines are cleaner,,,

When you assess most electric machine options, they might be more convenient, but rarely are they any cleaner when you assess the matter from a cradle to grave perspective.

Most electricity in America comes from burning oil and coal! Sorry thats dirty power.

Even when it comes from solar and wind and hydro or Nuke, its still dirty, its just different dirty. Solar panels too often have a much shorter life than is reported, and then what happens to them, they pile up in land fills as hazardous material, yes HAZARDOUS. And while they can be disassembled and recycled to minimize their environmental impact, it costs more then the panel itself so it mostly doesnt happen!

Same for the batteries all the battery operated devices use, the mining process alone is an environmental nightmare, and then what happens to all those nasty batteries in just an couple of years when they are dead, same thing, into the dump as hazardous materiel they go to poison the environment!

Windmill blades are apparently piling up just as fast as we make new ones and not being recycled due to to the cost.

Bio fuel and alcohol both are far more environmentally damaging than oil pumped out of the ground in the middle east. Both biofuel and alcohol release far more carbon into the air, in their creation than any oil pumped from the ground.

So far the only cleaner fuel is Hydrogen. And its not yet been embraced on a large scale for reasons not fully clear.

So while electric yard machines and cars and other devices may suit your needs because of convenience and simplicity, please do not live under the delusion that they are cleaner (cradle to grave), that is simply marketing hype designed by people that are trying to move your dollars from one companys pocket to another.

Sorry this will not sit well with many, but it in fact FACT.

Though you sprinkle in a few facts, the heart of this is simply not true, though it is in line with talking points, distractions, and all sorts of other non-scientific PR put out by the oil companies. Virtually every responsible scientist and every government in the world has agreed that we must electrify .

But on the bright side--we have progress--just a few years ago these same fossil fuel boosters were arguing that climate change is a myth. Those supporting Big Oil's position now might keep that in mind...

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Though you sprinkle in a few facts, the heart of this is simply not true, though it is in line with talking points, distractions, and all sorts of other non-scientific PR put out by the oil companies. Virtually every responsible scientist and every government in the world has agreed that we must electrify .

But on the bright side--we have progress--just a few years ago these same fossil fuel boosters were arguing that climate change is a myth. Those supporting Big Oil's position now might keep that in mind...

Sorry your facts a just blatant un-researched reiterations of what those who profit from the lies are telling you.

I work at a large govt research facility and i see all the truths and ALL the misinformation.

There is but one clean fuel, Hydrogen. Now if you use Hydrogen to power the electrical generators, and you also invent some NEW clean battery that doesnt create a mining polution nightmare, you could be correct about electrification.

But as is stands today most efforts to produce a cleaner way to power our lives has actually produced greater problems! Just read the latest LA Times report on the problems with solar. And they have THE perfect state for solar. Its an environmental disaster only now rearing its ugly head. But its been known this day would come for a long time.

Hydrogen is the best path forward, but its not quite ready for prime time just yet.

But Lithium batteries are currently worse than the impact of any modern gasoline and, bio fuel and alcohol are far worse than oil from the middle east. That is irrefutable when you look at the cradle to grave impact. Any other assessment is marketing and media hype. Sorry do you own research and not just read marketing materials and you will see the deeper darker side to these disasters that will be worse than anything you have seen yet!

Or just wait and live through it, because its coming and its already too late to stop the problems we have created.

We will have more environmental problems from the last 25 years worth of "advancements" than if we had just stayed status quo.

And mark my words, just like all similar problems in the past, few will be held accountable, and none of the profits from the lies and damage caused will be recovered! You and I will pay for the clean up. And thats the harsh truth on the current green efforts.

ATB with whatever else you chose to believe, the bill will come soon enough and you will pay it.

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Virtually every responsible scientist and every government in the world has agreed that we must electrify.

While electrification might be the end game... until we get clean energy generation AND more importantly, clean battery/storage technology it is all for naught. Those lithium batteries in your EV are beyond hazmat! At best they can only recover 50% of the lithium when they are recycled... this will lead to a huge toxic waste management issue as EV's become more popular.

No matter what people say, there is no such thing as "green" energy. They all have serious downsides.... and a huge potential for unintended consequences.

As XCR pointed out, hydrogen is promising, but not there yet. IMHO, SMR's are coming, but they aren't quite there yet either. Will they get here soon enough to help? Doubtful. If we don't get India, China & Pakistan and most 3rd world countries on board... nothing we do is going to matter.

No matter what side of any issue you are on, there is an upside, a downside and worse yet... unintended consequences.

Woodsy

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

While electrification might be the end game... until we get clean energy generation AND more importantly, clean battery/storage technology it is all for naught. Those lithium batteries in your EV are beyond hazmat! At best they can only recover 50% of the lithium when they are recycled... this will lead to a huge toxic waste management issue as EV's become more popular.

No matter what people say, there is no such thing as "green" energy. They all have serious downsides.... and a huge potential for unintended consequences.

As XCR pointed out, hydrogen is promising, but not there yet. IMHO, SMR's are coming, but they aren't quite there yet either. Will they get here soon enough to help? Doubtful. If we don't get India, China & Pakistan and most 3rd world countries on board... nothing we do is going to matter.

No matter what side of any issue you are on, there is an upside, a downside and worse yet... unintended consequences.

Woodsy

Better stated than from me!

Thanks.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

While electrification might be the end game... until we get clean energy generation AND more importantly, clean battery/storage technology it is all for naught. Those lithium batteries in your EV are beyond hazmat! At best they can only recover 50% of the lithium when they are recycled... this will lead to a huge toxic waste management issue as EV's become more popular.

No matter what people say, there is no such thing as "green" energy. They all have serious downsides.... and a huge potential for unintended consequences.

As XCR pointed out, hydrogen is promising, but not there yet. IMHO, SMR's are coming, but they aren't quite there yet either. Will they get here soon enough to help? Doubtful. If we don't get India, China & Pakistan and most 3rd world countries on board... nothing we do is going to matter.

No matter what side of any issue you are on, there is an upside, a downside and worse yet... unintended consequences.

Woodsy

Well, at least we agree that electrification is the end game.

In the meantime, there's a group of people doing everything they can to get us to electrification as fast as possible. And also a group of people dragging their heels with all sorts of lame excuses to stick with oil while the planet is warming.

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Well, at least we agree that electrification is the end game. In the meantime, there's a group of people doing everything they can to get us to electrification as fast as possible. And also a group of people dragging their heels with all sorts of lame excuses to stick with oil while the planet is warming.

While Woodsy and XCR-700 do well to remind us of the environmental problems with current alternative energy sources, we still all need to get on board with the effort to support these other sources. The sooner we do so, the sooner scientists will have the support they need to improve existing energy technologies and discover new ones. The current imperfect state of our knowledge and technology is not a reason to condemn or avoid electrification; it's a reason to support it so we can move forward. This should have been done decades ago.

[John Mercier]

Sail... That isn't really the problem...
Electricity has been generated from fossil fuels since the beginning.
We move from one source to another based largely on cost.

Natural gas is cheaper than coal (pipelines are more efficient than trains proven by Rockefeller)... and NG has a better thermal signature.

The reason that we have moved from gasoline in small tools is due to the fact that the first battery tools were corded - there were no gasoline versions of them.
Once on a platform, it just makes since to use that platform more and more. Add to that the gasoline doesn't have the greatest shelf life with ethanol, and anything that sits for long periods becomes even more convenient to use the battery platform that you have already invested in.

[ishoot308]

The best thing about this thread is the return of Major...

Welcome back!

Dan

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

While Woodsy and XCR-700 do well to remind us of the environmental problems with current alternative energy sources, we still all need to get on board with the effort to support these other sources. The sooner we do so, the sooner scientists will have the support they need to improve existing energy technologies and discover new ones. The current imperfect state of our knowledge and technology is not a reason to condemn or avoid electrification; it's a reason to support it so we can move forward. This should have been done decades ago.

At this very moment in time, electrification as its happening in the US is not better/greener than a middle east petro solution, its just a different set of problems.

Now make no mistake about it, land based crude oil extraction is cleaner and safer than ocean based drilling, and middle east crude oil based in sand is easier than pulling oil out from many parts of the US, but ALL lithium battery technology and solar panels are BAD business!

If you want a clean power example, you can look to Iceland who is using geothermal to create hydrogen, this is about as green as you will get today!

New nuclear power plants could be a very big step forward soon, but they will be VERY expensive and should not be entrusted to business that run them for profit, because just as soon as you start talking dollars and profit, corners will be cut. They also should not be build any where near populated areas, not because of fear of failure, but because of the threat of being targets for madmen like we have seen with Putin and Ukraine.

Sorry, Green is complicated,,,

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Well, at least we agree that electrification is the end game.

In the meantime, there's a group of people doing everything they can to get us to electrification as fast as possible. And also a group of people dragging their heels with all sorts of lame excuses to stick with oil while the planet is warming.

Warming is good, this is a lush hot planet where we grow things to eat and the plants make oxygen to allow is to breath and live.

An ice age by comparison would be a certain death for most of us.

The arrogance of anyone to think we can fine tune the planets temperature is either hype of ignorance, but I can assure you its nonsense.

Your single biggest contribution to planetary problems, population growth. So unless you are going to stop human births, then its better to embrace warmer than colder, or everyone will starve or freeze. But again, any belief we can perfectly tune the planet to some magic number some kook scientist tells you is nonsense.

In my lifetime I have seen such rubbish promoted and dispelled time and time again. Pesticides are good, they allow us to grow more plants/food, agent orange is safe to spray on the troops, DDT is ok to fog kids with, Thalidomide is 100% safe for pregnant woman, MTBE is much better than tetraethyl lead and is harmless, GMOs are the future, lithium batteries are green.

You can accomplish more greening of the planet by simply reducing your personal consumption and reusing your current products to their maximum possible life cycle. And the cost to you NOTHING.

Spend less time worrying about Mr. Kennedy and more time on reducing your personal usage of everything and you will accomplish far more.

Good Luck, ready set go!

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

While electrification might be the end game... until we get clean energy generation AND more importantly, clean battery/storage technology it is all for naught. Those lithium batteries in your EV are beyond hazmat! At best they can only recover 50% of the lithium when they are recycled... this will lead to a huge toxic waste management issue as EV's become more popular.

No matter what people say, there is no such thing as "green" energy. They all have serious downsides.... and a huge potential for unintended consequences.

As XCR pointed out, hydrogen is promising, but not there yet. IMHO, SMR's are coming, but they aren't quite there yet either. Will they get here soon enough to help? Doubtful. If we don't get India, China & Pakistan and most 3rd world countries on board... nothing we do is going to matter.

No matter what side of any issue you are on, there is an upside, a downside and worse yet... unintended consequences. Woodsy

Woodsy, I think this is well stated, but the question then becomes, if it appears we're doomed---because we can't develop green energy fast enough to save the planet---what should we do? I feel like "nothing we do is going to matter" is just too pessimistic. We can't just keep living the way we "want" to live, driving unnecessarily large gasoline vehicles and burning oil to heat unnecessarily large homes, etc. Every one of us can do something to mitigate the climate crisis. Studies of mass movements (e.g. Ghandi) have shown that in order to get a large movement going, you actually don't need to convince more than 50% of the population to get on board. It's more like 30%, which feels doable. Convincing 30% of citizens, lawmakers, corporations, etc. to take action on the climate crisis feels doable to me. I believe that everything we do matters, every small action. It all adds up.

[SAMIAM]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

Since this is a "boom" note, I'll take it off on a tangent. Climate change is a relevant issue for the lakes region and there is plenty that can and is being done, beyond carbon release. For example, the Loon Preservation Committee grows the loon population in the area using floating nests with sunshades. Climate change is pushing the population north to Canada, eh, and our loon population is much greater here because of LPC. About half the loons hatches are on artificial nests. Another aspect is water quality. Climate change related earlier ice melts and more frequent high-volume rain events are accelerating aging of the lakes. Many groups are involved in slowing the aging through analysis, conservation and regulations. In this forum, it isn't relevant to talk about how the rest of the world is coping with climate change but is a perfect place to discuss local impact and actions.

Lots of national issues it would be fun to discuss but that's for other forums.
As far as the loons are concerned,I know several loons and they have told me that dramatic climate change has always occured and it is now just a grab for money,power and control

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

Since this is a "boom" note, I'll take it off on a tangent. Climate change is a relevant issue for the lakes region and there is plenty that can and is being done, beyond carbon release. For example, the Loon Preservation Committee grows the loon population in the area using floating nests with sunshades. Climate change is pushing the population north to Canada, eh, and our loon population is much greater here because of LPC. About half the loons hatches are on artificial nests. Another aspect is water quality. Climate change related earlier ice melts and more frequent high-volume rain events are accelerating aging of the lakes. Many groups are involved in slowing the aging through analysis, conservation and regulations. In this forum, it isn't relevant to talk about how the rest of the world is coping with climate change but is a perfect place to discuss local impact and actions.

Yup I totally get it, life is so much better when you wear blinders and control the conversation, no need to worry about anyone but yourself. And so long as the other regions problems dont spill across your border, why work yourself into a frenzy about anyone else. The countries problems and successes are not relevant to you, and even if they are, you dont care you like you way of doing things. Its a simpler life for sure. It says a lot about who you are and people will know to not engage with you on big picture matters when you set rules to wall yourself off, even if what they are discussing offers insight into a better way for you AND everyone else.

So a discussion about how a citizen outside the lakes region saved lives by having a pistol, and being brave enough to risk their life to stop some deranged madman from killing others could never be informative or have bearing on you and the people of NH. Well I hope that all works as well as you plan.

But again the rules are the rules and I will do my best to follow them, and when I see conversations straying from a lakes region focus, I will try to remind our fellow posters to STOP the conversation and NEVER discuss such matters because:

It isn't in the Lakes Region.
It isn't in the State...
And it isn't even in New England.

The issue is non-matter for us.

Yup got it! Many Thanks for the insight.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

It doesn't relate because NH, and the Lakes Region, doesn't have a particular history of violence; firearm-related or not.

Clearly you live in a different New Hampshire, or dont ever watch the news or read a news paper as the knew New Hampshire I know is just as plagued by violence as the rest of the country! Up to and including the couple that booby trapped their property with bombs! Almost every day some snippet from NH makes it across the border to the MA news about some killing, stabbing, kidnapping, assault, drug fueled disaster like the truck the ran head on into the motorcycles, ETC, Etc, etc.

I would be interested to find the NH that you live in that is immune to violence, it must be an interesting and really different place from the NH I know, which is a really great place. Its just not violence free, but why the NH I know is such a great place is that "its" citizens live with eyes open and take note of whats going on in the rest of the country and that allows them to make informed decisions in order to attempt to avoid some of those problems. And because they are informed and discuss matters of concern, its a pretty good place, the NH I know.

I guess just like there can be 2 different perspectives on any matter, there can be 2 different New Hampshires, one with violence and one that is violence free because they dont discuss matters outside their region, who would have guessed it was that simple ;-)

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Clearly you live in a different New Hampshire, or dont ever watch the news or read a news paper as the knew New Hampshire I know is just as plagued by violence as the rest of the country! Up to and including the couple that booby trapped their property with bombs! Almost every day some snippet from NH makes it across the border to the MA news about some killing, stabbing, kidnapping, assault, drug fueled disaster like the truck the ran head on into the motorcycles, ETC, Etc, etc.

I would interested to find the NH that you live in that is immune to violence, it must be an interesting and really different place from the NH I know, which is a really great place. Its just not violence free, but why the NH I know is such a great place is that "its" citizens live with eyes open and take note of whats going on in the rest of the country and that allows them to make informed decisions in order to attempt to avoid some of those problems. And because they are informed and discuss matters of concern, its a pretty good place, the NH I know.

I guess just like there can be 2 different perspectives on any matter, there can be 2 different New Hampshires, one with violence and one that is violence free because they dont discuss matters outside their region, who would have guessed it was that simple ;-)

Yes, I think you and I live in very different New Hampshires.

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[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Yes, I think you and I live in very different New Hampshires.

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Sorry not clear, do you live in the violence free NH or the regular one?

Just checking, and hoping to find the violence free one, its damn elusive,,, The news keeps showing all the drug problems and violence in the regular NH. Now that one is still far better than say California or New York or Chicago, but is just not violence free.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Sorry not clear, do you live in the violence free NH or the regular one?

Just checking, and hoping to find the violence free one, its damn elusive,,, The news keeps showing all the drug problems and violence in the regular NH. Now that one is still far better than say California or New York or Chicago, but is just not violence free.

No place is violence free—literally no place, as violence is as human as peace.

I live in the NH that repeatedly ranks—as most of New England—in the top safest states in America.

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[Major]

I find it rich that the same people who complained about me and my comments to the Moderator are such advocates for the free exchange of ideas and healthy debate. I tried to support my positions and arguments with data and facts, with a sense of humor. The Winnipesaukee Forum is littered with former conservative contributors who were "politely" asked not to share their ideas with the sensitive masses. I can name a dozen or so contributors like me who were asked not to contribute. Name one contributor on the left side of the aisle who was asked to leave, let alone to tone it down.

Anyway, I agree that this Forum should try to be apolitical. However, it is apparent to me that one side gets to pepper the Forum with comments about climate change, the flu, and other social issues while the other side is relegated to sit on the sidelines and told to maintain silence. I shouldn't be surprised, news and social media are consistently trying to silence the right, why should the Winnipesaukee Forum be any different.

Anyway, I still enjoy reading the Forum and find it helpful for boating issues and restaurant reviews/comments. Stay well.

P.S. I still believe the 45 MPH speed limit on Winnipesaukee is STUPID!!

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Major

I find it rich that the same people who complained about me and my comments to the Moderator are such advocates for the free exchange of ideas and healthy debate. I tried to support my positions and arguments with data and facts, with a sense of humor. The Winnipesaukee Forum is littered with former conservative contributors who were "politely" asked not to share their ideas with the sensitive masses. I can name a dozen or so contributors like me who were asked not to contribute. Name one contributor on the left side of the aisle who was asked to leave, let alone to tone it down.

Anyway, I agree that this Forum should try to be apolitical. However, it is apparent to me that one side gets to pepper the Forum with comments about climate change, the flu, and other social issues while the other side is relegated to sit on the sidelines and told to maintain silence. I shouldn't be surprised, news and social media are consistently trying to silence the right, why should the Winnipesaukee Forum be any different.

Anyway, I still enjoy reading the Forum and find it helpful for boating issues and restaurant reviews/comments. Stay well.

P.S. I still believe the 45 MPH speed limit on Winnipesaukee is STUPID!!

Hey, buddy!

I think there's a distinct difference between the (common) commentary from "the left" and "the right."

Case in point: Sailin, clearly a climate-change hippie, discusses her points and the issues calmly and reasonably and kindly whereas the comments in question were attacking the forum for being communist, having agendas, etc.

In fact, of ALL the forum members, I'm probably the most aggressive "liberal" in my attacks on crappy and biased sources, but you and I and Dan and Hillcountry, etc. still converse reasonably.

As I say in the town forum I moderate: it's not what you say, it's how you say it.

Just my take.

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[Major]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Hey, buddy!

I think there's a distinct difference between the (common) commentary from "the left" and "the right."

Case in point: Sailin, clearly a climate-change hippie, discusses her points and the issues calmly and reasonably and kindly whereas the comments in question were attacking the forum for being communist, having agendas, etc.

In fact, of ALL the forum members, I'm probably the most aggressive "liberal" in my attacks on crappy and biased sources, but you and I and Dan and Hillcountry, etc. still converse reasonably.

As I say in the town forum I moderate: it's not what you say, it's how you say it.

Just my take.

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I respectfully disagree about Sailin. Case in point she just accused me of propagating a "criminal" position. That is hyperbolic and somewhat crazy.

Anyway, I never considered you "left" although I know you are. I always enjoyed our interactions. I think it's because you don't take yourself too seriously. Stay well, my friend.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Major

I respectfully disagree about Sailin. Case in point she just accused me of propagating a "criminal" position. That is hyperbolic and somewhat crazy.

Anyway, I never considered you "left" although I know you are. I always enjoyed our interactions. I think it's because you don't take yourself too seriously. Stay well, my friend.

Ummm...yeah, Sailin kinda blew that one up. Welp, on to the next thread!

Can't we all just get along?!

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[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Can't we all just get along?!

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Vigorous debate is actually a really good thing, its how we inform and educate each other about both fact and opinion.

What should be of concern are personal attacks, and too often that is a product of vigorous debate. Few are totally immune from it and some go for the personal attack just as soon as possible.

Being a fair moderator is a tough job to be sure, its really hard to totally leave your own opinion in a separate box.

I think they do a better job here than many forums, but there is no such thing and total impartiality.

That said, your message is worth saying ;-)

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Ummm...yeah, Sailin kinda blew that one up

I dare you to respond civilly to Major's views on the pandemic. It can't be done without violating the facts and your own intelligence and moral compass. The man is a raging lunatic who lives in a nonparallel universe.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

I dare you to respond civilly to Major's views on the pandemic. It can't be done without violating the facts and your own intelligence and moral compass. The man is a raging lunatic who lives in a nonparallel universe.

And this is why we can't have discussions like this here. Personal attack, name calling, this post has it all. Please stop.


Time to blow this thread up too Mr Webmaster.

For the record, I love well reasoned civil discussion of these important discussions.

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by Major

Name one contributor on the left side of the aisle who was asked to leave, let alone to tone it down.

Some of my left-leaning posts or threads were shut down. I accept that.

Originally Posted by Major

It is apparent to me that one side gets to pepper the Forum with comments about climate change, the flu, and other social issues while the other side is relegated to sit on the sidelines and told to maintain silence.

You made dozens of posts claiming that there was no Covid pandemic. Since then, 6.37 million people have died globally, including 1.02 million people in the U.S. There is wide agreement that those figures are greatly understated. The U.S. has 4.25% of the world's population, but it has had 16% of the world's Covid deaths. In other words, four times more Americans have died than should have by population. Your deranged posts had no basis in fact and were close to criminally dangerous. It's unfortunate that you stayed in that discussion as long as you did.

[Major]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

Some of my left-leaning posts or threads were shut down. I accept that.

You made dozens of posts claiming that there was no Covid pandemic. Since then, 6.37 million people have died globally, including 1.02 million people in the U.S. There is wide agreement that those figures are greatly understated. The U.S. has 4.25% of the world's population, but it has had 16% of the world's Covid deaths. In other words, four times more Americans have died than should have by population. Your deranged posts had no basis in fact and were close to criminally dangerous. It's unfortunate that you stayed in that discussion as long as you did.

This is patently wrong. I supported my posts with data originally from Worldometer and then from Alex Berenson's books about the flu. Just got done reading Robert Kennedy, Jr.'s book. You should educate yourself and read it. Maybe you have but don't understand statistics. I am not sure.

I am sticking to my guns. The flu was very dangerous to those who were already really sick or really old or both. (Average age of COVID-related deaths is 83; average number of co-morbidities is 4.) I never said it wasn't dangerous to some people or that it wasn't contagious. However, there was no reason for our government to shut down our economy and essentially our country for this contagion. My son lost his job because of the government's overreaction -- shut down his industry. The damage caused to him by being unemployed hoping for his job to come back is difficult to gauge, but it exists. Fortunately, he pulled himself up and got a good job and is doing well. But I can assure you there was damage.

And the kicker is, none of the responses worked -- vaccines, social distancing, masks, lockdowns. NONE. The flu progressed as flus progress.
Read some books, educate yourself. Read about the vaccine and how dangerous it is with respect to well-known vaccines. Especially for young people, who don't die from the disease anyway. Read about how our government agencies get rich on vaccines but not well-known, widely accepted therapeutics, such as hydrocloroquine and ivermectin. Read about how our government had the same response with HIV and frittered away more than a Trillion Dollars. (We are no closer to an AIDS vaccine than we were 35 years ago. Same with covid.) Stop responding to issues with feelings. You are not the authority on anything. At least I recognize there are two sides to every issue. You don't. That's why you went running to Don to complain.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Major

This is patently wrong. I supported my posts with data originally from Worldometer and then from Alex Berenson's books about the flu. Just got done reading Robert Kennedy, Jr.'s book. You should educate yourself and read it. Maybe you have but don't understand statistics. I am not sure.

Ummm...not to put too fine a point on it--but are you aware that Robert Kennedy is an anti-vaxxer? I do not mean covid denier (like you), or anti-covid-vaccine-for-political-purposes-guy, like some others on this forum. I mean a full-on anti vaccination whack job. If you think the world would be a better place without vaccines for polio, measles, mumps, etc--he's your guy!

Here are links from both the left and the right for those who would like to learn more about Kennedy:

https://nypost.com/2022/02/02/robert...-him-millions/

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021...icon-nightmare

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Ummm...not to put too fine a point on it--but are you aware that Robert Kennedy is an anti-vaxxer? I do not mean covid denier (like you), or anti-covid-vaccine-for-political-purposes-guy, like some others on this forum. I mean a full-on anti vaccination whack job. If you think the world would be a better place without vaccines for polio, measles, mumps, etc--he's your guy!

It's hard to understand how Robert Kennedy went off the rails to such an extent that his family denounced him in an editorial they published in the New York Times.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

No place is violence free—literally no place, as violence is as human as peace.

I live in the NH that repeatedly ranks—as most of New England—in the top safest states in America.

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I totally agree with you, but the statement was made by our oracle that the lakes region doesnt have a history of violence; firearm-related or not, and its misleading. The lakes region has its fair share of violence. Just stop and talk to any Laconia police office and tell him they dont have any particular violence problems to deal with and you might get an earful.

Its a really great place, just not violence free, well unless you dont count child molestation and kiddy porn as violent crimes, oh and all the other items in the Laconia police log,,,

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

I totally agree with you, but the statement was made by our oracle that the lakes region doesnt have a history of violence; firearm-related or not, and its misleading. The lakes region has its fair share of violence. Just stop and talk to any Laconia police office and tell him they dont have any particular violence problems to deal with and you might get an earful.

Its a really great place, just not violence free, well unless you dont count child molestation and kiddy porn as violent crimes, oh and all the other items in the Laconia police log,,,

Do you have a link of either of those crimes being stopped by a bystander using a firearm?

Not relevant.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Do you have a link of either of those crimes being stopped by a bystander using a firearm?

Not relevant.

Just a quick reality check, are you now correcting your statement that the Lakes Region has no particular violent crime problems?

And to actually answer your question (wouldnt want it to go unanswered)

NO, the crime wasnt stopped, it happened and those children suffered and will be scared for life.

Maybe if a passer by had been armed, and saw what was going on and was brave enough to do something, it could have been stopped. Now wouldnt that have been a better outcome???

Well at least that ties the conversation to the Lakes Region,,, Sad it had to be about child molestation that actually occurred right in our playground of Winnipesaukee.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Just a quick reality check, are you now correcting your statement that the Lakes Region has no particular violent crime problems?

And to actually answer your question (wouldnt want it to go unanswered)

NO, the crime wasnt stopped, it happened and those children suffered and will be scared for life.

Maybe if a passer by had been armed, and saw what was going on and was brave enough to do something, it could have been stopped. Now wouldnt that have been a better outcome???

Well at least that ties the conversation to the Lakes Region,,, Sad it had to be about child molestation that actually occurred right in our playground of Winnipesaukee.

Not at all. Reread the post... we do not have a particular history of violence.
*especially great or intense is the defiinition... and our area fits that definition.

I am pointing out that you are trying to deflect to save face... as there is no reason for the discussion other than a political philosophy that has not abject relevance to either Lake Winnipesaukee or the Lakes Region.

You are simply way off subject on the basis of the forum.

[Woodsy]

This forum has always tended to avoid political hot potatoes! Those discussions usually degenerate quickly into uncivil discourse. I know to some of the newcomers it seems a bit like censorship... but I assure you the webmaster doesn't choose sides.

One just has to peruse the great speed limit debates... a division STILL felt on this forum and the lake.

Woodsy

[winniwannabe]

How 'bout them Red Sox!! Implosion ! Time to move on here

[Newbiesaukee]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

This forum has always tended to avoid political hot potatoes! Those discussions usually degenerate quickly into uncivil discourse. I know to some of the newcomers it seems a bit like censorship... but I assure you the webmaster doesn't choose sides.

One just has to peruse the great speed limit debates... a division STILL felt on this forum and the lake.

Woodsy

Agree, but what I do not understand is that the “disrupters” are emphatically NOT newcomers and perfectly well know the webmaster’s policy and the practice on the Forum. Why this and why now? The last question is rhetorical and I won’t further add to the disruption.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Yes, I think you and I live in very different New Hampshires.

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He doesn't live in NH.

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by mhtranger

I guess my comment about communism stands true.

Huh?

What does "communism" have to do with admin's desire to keep all topics focused solely on Winni?

There are plenty of other outlets for you to rant and rave at, I suggest you explore them.

[BrownstoneNorth]

Originally Posted by mhtranger

I guess my comment about communism stands true. Just like being on Facebook and their fact checkers. Doesn’t fit your narrative silence the few. Instead of having a conversation about issues the moderator decides to lock the other thread. Good job. I thought the people on this forum were adults but I guess I was mistaken.
I will just keep reading here and keep my comments to myself as not to hurt peoples feelings.
Any takers on how long this will stay up?

That thread was never going to qualify as a “conversation,” and “communism” has nothing at all to do with it. Look up “communism,” which has very specific definitions. Only the ignorant use it as an irrelevant epithet to rail against anything they feel limits their ability to spout off about whatever, wherever.

PS. It has nothing to do with fascism, either, in case you were going there next.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by BrownstoneNorth

That thread was never going to qualify as a “conversation,” and “communism” has nothing at all to do with it. Look up “communism,” which has very specific definitions. Only the ignorant use it as an irrelevant epithet to rail against anything they feel limits their ability to spout off about whatever, wherever.

PS. It has nothing to do with fascism, either, in case you were going there next.

And another pot calling the kettle ignorant,,, Love the double standard.

How about if you want to change the dialog, you follow ITDs example.