Is it too good to be true?

[Skipper of the Sea Que]

Is it possible that we will be done with the forum for/against new speed limits discussion (I use the term loosely) on Lake Winnipesaukee by the end of the day today?

Let's get this over and done (one way or the other) so we can go back to normal and having FUN!

Kayakers love water --- boaters love people

I love ... nevermind, the list is too long - and my wife might read it

[Skip]

Well said, as usual, Skipper!

Don has been a very fair and accomodating host during this entire debate. No other forum or source has provided the input or venue that Don did to let both sides air their respective thoughts & opinions.

And I might add that Don has been extremely liberal in his moderation policies to allow both sides all the room they could reasonably expect to get their points across.

As usual, Don's website has been at the forefront of yet another extremely sensitive and relevant Lake discussion.

That said, once the issue is decided, I vote that Don locks down these threads and we all move on to greener pastures.

My tip o' the hat once again to you Don for the opportunity you provided the readers, the posters and the entire Lake community with this excellent forum that you devote so much of your life to!

Skip

[chipj29]

HB162 did not pass a couple of years ago. If HB847 does not pass, I believe it to be likely that another speed limit HB will be proposed in short order.

Is there a limit as to how many times a bill (same bill with minor differences) can be introduced? If not, there should be.

[Lakegeezer]

If the bill passes, it doesn't go into effect till next year, then sunsets two years after that. This debate will continue if it passes. If it fails, all will be quiet unless some organized group starts it up again. This forum has been a good place to have a debate. Now we'll see if the senate listens to logic or money.

[fatlazyless]

Out of 400 state reps, HB847 had 5 reps who are sponsors. Out of 24 state senators, it has 5 senators, one R & 4D's who are sponsors. Out of the remaining 19 senators it needs 8 to get a majority of 13-11.

My know-nothing, outer space prediction; it will pass 15-9.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

If the bill passes, it doesn't go into effect till next year, then sunsets two years after that. This debate will continue if it passes. If it fails, all will be quiet unless some organized group starts it up again. This forum has been a good place to have a debate. Now we'll see if the senate listens to logic or money.

Honestly, the sunset concerns me. If it does pass, and there are no "high" speed accidents, then it will be spun that the speed limit did its job. It prevented accidents.

What they fail to mention is that there haven't been any "high" speed accidents to begin with, so there is nothing to measure against.

My guess is that if the speed limit does pass, it is going nowhere anytime soon.

[Island Lover]

Originally Posted by chipj29

Honestly, the sunset concerns me. If it does pass, and there are no "high" speed accidents, then it will be spun that the speed limit did its job. It prevented accidents.

What they fail to mention is that there haven't been any "high" speed accidents to begin with, so there is nothing to measure against.

My guess is that if the speed limit does pass, it is going nowhere anytime soon.

Are you joking or misinformed? There have been many high speed accidents. There have been day and night accidents, fatal and non-fatal accidents, boat to boat, boat to shore, boat alone, recent and long ago, on Winnipesaukee and on other lakes. You must mean none you wish to talk about.

[Airwaves]

Originally posted by Skipper of the Sea Que
Is it possible that we will be done with the forum for/against new speed limits discussion (I use the term loosely) on Lake Winnipesaukee by the end of the day today?

Unfortunately no, even if it's approved by the Senate today without any amendments to the House version it still needs the Governor's signature to become law, so the lobbying will shift from the Senate to the Governor.

If the Senate adds any amendment, like the law would take effect immediately upon passage or kayaks have to stay within 150 feet of shore then it has to go back to the House (or a House-Senate conference committee depending on the rules of the NH Legislature) for their approval then return to the Senate for final enactment before going to the Governor. (Unless things work very differently in NH than I am used to here in the southern hemisphere)

As chipj29 correctly points out, if the Senate does what they should do and kills HB847 then WinnFabs etc will just file another bill for next session and by then hopefully lawmakers will have seen this for what it really is and kill it in committee.

As for the spin when the sunset clause is about to expire, chipj29 is correct again, the backers of the bill will say SEE It worked it needs to stay in place, when the truth of the matter is there was no speeding problem to fix in the first place!

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by Island Lover

Are you joking or misinformed? There have been many high speed accidents. There have been day and night accidents, fatal and non-fatal accidents, boat to boat, boat to shore, boat alone, recent and long ago, on Winnipesaukee and on other lakes. You must mean none you wish to talk about.

Oh spare me. You know exactly what I am talking about. I am talking about accidents that were a direct result of speeds in excess of the proposed limit.

Now don't go and quote all the incidents with excessive speeds...because we all know that "excessive speed" is a very very generic term.

And yes, I realize the Littlefield incident was above the proposed speed. But what was the direct cause of that event? Don't insult my intelligence by saying that the cause was his speed all of 28 mph.

So I will ask the question...how many of the "high speed accidents" of which you speak were above the proposed speeds?

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by Island Lover

Are you joking or misinformed? There have been many high speed accidents. There have been day and night accidents, fatal and non-fatal accidents, boat to boat, boat to shore, boat alone, recent and long ago, on Winnipesaukee and on other lakes. You must mean none you wish to talk about.

Chip...

I will go one better....


Island Lover..

How many accidents above the proposed speed limit have occurred on Lake Winnipesaukee that DID NOT INVOLVE ALCOHOL??

I asked BI the same question weeks ago and have yet to get a response!

Woodsy

PS: Still waiting BI!

[Island Lover]

Originally Posted by chipj29

Oh spare me. You know exactly what I am talking about. I am talking about accidents that were a direct result of speeds in excess of the proposed limit.

Now don't go and quote all the incidents with excessive speeds...because we all know that "excessive speed" is a very very generic term.

And yes, I realize the Littlefield incident was above the proposed speed. But what was the direct cause of that event? Don't insult my intelligence by saying that the cause was his speed all of 28 mph.

So I will ask the question...how many of the "high speed accidents" of which you speak were above the proposed speeds?

Don't post "there haven't been any "high" speed accidents" if it isn't true. I understand that you are deluding yourself but other readers may not.

Woodsy, there have been several. If you want to post something go ahead. I am not interested in answering your "questions".

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by Island Lover

Woodsy, there have been several. If you want to post something go ahead. I am not interested in answering your "questions".

Island Lover...

YOU claim that there have been "several" hi-speed accidents on Lake Winnipesaukee that didnt involve alcohol.

I am asking for proof of your claim!!

You can't back up your claim because you don't have the answer...

Quite frankly if you can't back up your statements with fact, then you probably shouldn't post!

Woodsy

PS: Still waiting on that answer from BI & now Island Lover!!!

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by Island Lover

Don't post "there haven't been any "high" speed accidents" if it isn't true. I understand that you are deluding yourself but other readers may not.

Woodsy, there have been several. If you want to post something go ahead. I am not interested in answering your "questions".

Please enlighten me, and the rest of the "uninformed" readers about these "high speed accidents" to which you refer. Thanks in advance. Now remember, these "high speed accidents" were directly caused by speeds greater than the proposed limits.

[ITD]

No answer, the silence is deafening................

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by ITD

No answer, the silence is deafening................

They went to Concord for the vote and party.

[Seaplane Pilot]

I listened on line most of the day, but didn't hear this bill come up.

[Airwaves]

I checked with a contact at Channel 9 at about 7 this evening. They had not heard but because I reminded them if they get word prior their deadline for the 11 O'Clock newscast it will be on.

Since today is the final day for the NH Senate to ACT on house bills I expect the session won't end prior to midnight.

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

I listened on line most of the day, but didn't hear this bill come up.

They took it up at 9:22 PM and voted at 9:46 PM.

14 yes, 10 no.

[Airwaves]

Originally posted by Bear Islander
They took it up at 9:22 PM and voted at 9:46 PM.

14 yes, 10 no

That would mean a gubernatorial veto could not be overridden!

[Skipper of the Sea Que]

Originally Posted by Skipper of the Sea Que

Is it possible that we will be done with the forum for/against new speed limits discussion (I use the term loosely) on Lake Winnipesaukee by the end of the day today?

Let's get this over and done (one way or the other) so we can go back to normal and having FUN!

Kayakers love water --- boaters love people

I love ... nevermind, the list is too long - and my wife might read it

Yes, it was too good to be true. (geez, now I'm talking to myself)
sigh...

kayakers love water --- Boaters (like me) love... oh just ask Evenstar, she claims to know

[Gilligan]

When does the fat lady sing?

How long does the gov have to sign the bill?

If he does he have to veto the bill?

If he does neither of the above, how long before it is considered to be law (that goes into effect in 2009)?

When will this be over?

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Gilligan

When does the fat lady sing?

How long does the gov have to sign the bill?

If he does he have to veto the bill?

If he does neither of the above, how long before it is considered to be law (that goes into effect in 2009)?

When will this be over?

The Governor has five days (Sundays & holidays excluded) to act on the bill once it is passed. So he either signs or vetos it by tomorrow, or it becomes law without his signature.

So, it will either be specifically vetoed by him (which appears doubtful) or go into effect for the 2009 season by his action or inaction as of tomorrow...unless he has already signed it and the media has not reported the event.

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Originally Posted by Skip

So, it will either be specifically vetoed by him (which appears doubtful) or go into effect for the 2009 season by his action or inaction as of tomorrow...unless he has already signed it and the media has not reported the event.

I just checked with the Secretary of State's office and was told the bill had not arrived on the governor's desk yet (when I gave them the bill number, they didn't recognize it but when I mentioned the subject of the bill, they did!). Apparently, there is nothing specified in the law about how quickly a bill that has passed both sides of the Legislature will arrive on the governor's desk; the only stipulation is the 5 days Skip mentioned for him to act on it once it does hit his desk.

So I guess we still have time to send letters to the governor to argue our case.

[Skip]

Oops...forgot a step!

The Bill is currently in the hand of the Enrollment Committee. This committee makes a final check of the passed bill for any technical or legal issues, then reports back to both the House & Senate on final status. As a formality the House Leader or Senate president then affixes their signature and turns the bill over to the Secretary of State for final recording and submission to the Governor's desk, where he then has five days to act.

So the Bill is in the appropriate pipeline and should reach the Governor's desk shortly....

[Bear Islander]

Article 44

"If any bill shall not be returned by the governor within five days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the same shall be a law in like manner as if he had signed it unless the legislature, by their adjournment, prevent its return, in which case it shall not be a law."

[Gilligan]

When are they scheduled to adjourn?

Is there a time limit on how long the Enrollment Committee can review the bill?