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Old 12-31-2020, 06:43 AM   #1
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Default New Cars with a Turbo and Start Stop

New vehicles with a turbo.
New vehicles with start stop technology.

Granted. Diesel engines with a turbo have been around for a long time.

Now, though, many gasoline engines vehicles are being marketed with a turbo.
Some are smaller engines to increase speed and gas mileage.

Some mechanics, young and old, state not to buy a new car with a turbo. As the turbo places more pressure on these smaller engines. Cause more heat. Heat being the enemy of any engine. Plus the potential added cost if a turbo ever breaks.

Yet others state that the manufacturers have engineered these new engines with turbos to last a very long time.

Then there is start stop vehicles. The engine shuts down at every stop light, stop sign. Some state that this puts more wear on the starter motor and more wear on the engine. Others state that the manufacturers have made these starter motors and engines stronger to withstand such.

The Class Action lawsuit has been closed for the Honda CR-V with smaller engine and a turbo.

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What do the Lakes Region automotive owners think about the turbo gas engines and this new start stop technology?
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Old 12-31-2020, 07:17 AM   #2
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Iíve owned 4 cars with turbos. All gas not diesel. Have loved everyone of them, saw no special maintenance. Put over 100k on each of them in 3-4 years and then moved on.

I personally donít like the start stop feature. But thatís going to come on all new vehicles. You can shut it off in the car.

How long you plan on keeping the car?
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Old 12-31-2020, 07:43 AM   #3
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1. I don't see how this topic pertains to the Lakes Region.

2. Asking people about opinions on cars is like counting leaves on a tree. You will get innumerable, unique, often contrary answers.

3. I have a 20 year old Volvo with a turbo and besides a vacuum hose breaking have had no problems with it. Expensive electronic modules? That's a whole 'nother story.

4. The quality of the turbo is probably linked to the overall quality of the car. Cheap car = cheap turbo = uncertain reliability.

5. The fact that turbos have become common implies that the reliability has been proven. However, air bags are common and reliable and yet a manufacturer managed to screw them up and unleashed a massive recall. Car wiring has been reliable and yet someone made a change that made wiring tasty to rodents and people's wiring started to get chewed up yielding massive and complicated repairs. Fools can mess ANYTHING up.

6. Complexity in modern cars is a fact of life. All the safety sensors are a repair waiting to happen. Complex computer programming monitoring everything is prone to mysterious glitches a la the Boeing 737 MAX. Good luck finding a car without complexity especially when consumers are clamoring for the features that require it. Frankly, this applies to modern life in general. Think about the complex process of how you get your food. You can worry about it or live your life.
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Old 12-31-2020, 08:46 AM   #4
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My new GMC pickup truck has start stop and I hate it and always shut it off. I see zero benefit to its use.

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Old 12-31-2020, 09:26 AM   #5
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My new GMC pickup truck has start stop and I hate it and always shut it off. I see zero benefit to its use.

Dan
Both my cars and my daughters all have it. Hate it I turn it off as soon as I start the car

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Old 12-31-2020, 10:00 AM   #6
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Put 238k miles on my 2000 VW Passat with 1.8L turbo gas engine. Donated it in 2016 because the frame was rusting and the clutch, original to the vehicle, was going.

I would have to agree with Jeffk that this is not a Lakes Region issue. There have been a few posts recently that are like that.


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Old 12-31-2020, 10:22 AM   #7
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I worked on getting start-stop technology into the automotive market 15 years ago, which is to say the technology is not new (been in production well over a decade). The trend started in Europe, to help meet emissions and mileage standards. The benefit - less fuel is used, as the engine does not idle when vehicle is not in motion. Engine restart times are measured in fractions of a second, such that restarts can occur as soon as the driver moves foot from brake to gas pedals.
Many manufacturers accomplish the start-stop function without engaging the starter motor, and so (depending on the make) there is no additional wear on the engine components. Users will also notice the start-stop doesn't self-activate under all conditions so that cabin comforts such as heat and a/c continue uninterrupted.

Last edited by Bear Guy; 12-31-2020 at 10:22 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 12-31-2020, 10:29 AM   #8
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Wifeís car has it. Commuting to Boston every day and itís just annoying in hours of stop and go traffic. We leave it off


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Old 12-31-2020, 12:04 PM   #9
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Default Start/Stop

I hate start/stop. I turn it off. When I forget, I always notice a lag in the power steering being powered on. They also claim it won't shut off in the winter when the car is cold. They lie. It does. This feature came into play because a former administration imposed gas mileage limits. This was a cheat by the car companies to achieve them.

As far as turbos. I've had two trucks with turbos. I was really worried about going form a V8 to a turbo charged motor. I tow often. Happy to report that I've had no issues and I get better gas mileage and more torque than I had with my V8.
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Old 12-31-2020, 12:54 PM   #10
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The first time I ever drove a car with start/stop it was a rental and I had no idea such a thing existed until I was in the typical massive traffic on the George Washington bridge and the stupid thing kept shutting off. This has to be one of the all time stupidest things ever inflicted on the public. Sure the car starts right up, usually. But what if it doesn't or what happens when the car has 85000 miles on it and is a little tired and takes a few cranks to start?

The second worst thing is the keyless start. Is it really that hard to put in the key and turn it on? I don't know how many times I have walked away and left the car running. The key got locked inside once and another time I left the car running on purpose because it was cold and my mom was in the car but apparently it shuts off if the key gets out of range.

No thanks to any of this crap.
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Old 12-31-2020, 01:38 PM   #11
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The doors are not suppose to lock on a keyless start if the keys are left in it?
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The first time I ever drove a car with start/stop it was a rental and I had no idea such a thing existed until I was in the typical massive traffic on the George Washington bridge and the stupid thing kept shutting off. This has to be one of the all time stupidest things ever inflicted on the public. Sure the car starts right up, usually. But what if it doesn't or what happens when the car has 85000 miles on it and is a little tired and takes a few cranks to start?

The second worst thing is the keyless start. Is it really that hard to put in the key and turn it on? I don't know how many times I have walked away and left the car running. The key got locked inside once and another time I left the car running on purpose because it was cold and my mom was in the car but apparently it shuts off if the key gets out of range.

No thanks to any of this crap.
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Old 12-31-2020, 02:12 PM   #12
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The doors are not suppose to lock on a keyless start if the keys are left in it?

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so they told me, but there I was out in the middle of Wonalancet with the key on the seat. Call me old but I want nothing to do with 90% of all the new "features" forced into cars. I drive rentals a lot when I travel and have a long list of cars I hate.
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Old 12-31-2020, 02:51 PM   #13
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so they told me, but there I was out in the middle of Wonalancet with the key on the seat. Call me old but I want nothing to do with 90% of all the new "features" forced into cars. I drive rentals a lot when I travel and have a long list of cars I hate.
I don't like them either but at some point I think they will all be keyless. I'm a life long customer of Chevy Silverado pick ups but I read that in 2022 they will be going keyless and shifterless and I'm not happy about it!
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Old 12-31-2020, 03:14 PM   #14
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Iíll never own a car again with out keyless entry/start again... leave the keys in my pocket I walk right up and the doors unlock, push button to start... great, Yíall living in 1990
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Old 12-31-2020, 04:42 PM   #15
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Default Nothing new

Gasoline turbos aren't new. I had a 1984 Volvo turbo. Great car, traded it at 85000 miles when I needed a van for a wheelchair. I don't have s/s, but my friend has start/stop. Aggravating, mostly shuts it off. For many years, I mostly drove convertibles, so I rarely locked the car anyway. The fob is harder to carry when you normally have a key ring with a dozen keys. My office has a fob security system, better security and you can just reprogram the locks when somebody joins or leaves, but I'd rather a keypad instead of something I have to carry, whether building or car.
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Old 12-31-2020, 05:17 PM   #16
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I love the start, stop. My significant other hates it. It's funny how you either love it or hate it. I love the keyless too. My old car doesn't have it and I am always hunting for the key to put in the ignition.
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Old 12-31-2020, 06:30 PM   #17
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We bought a Chevy Equinox with the 2L turbo last year. It is a peppy car and we liked the performance during the test drive. It was great until we got it home and when reading the manual discovered it ran on 93 octane gas. It gets good gas mileage but the cost per mile isn't that much better than my Silverado which runs fine on 87 octane. It's my fault for not knowing this before but it should probably have been mentioned by the salesperson. I've heard other turbos need high test too so it's something to consider.
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Old 01-01-2021, 08:04 AM   #18
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We bought a Chevy Equinox with the 2L turbo last year. It is a peppy car and we liked the performance during the test drive. It was great until we got it home and when reading the manual discovered it ran on 93 octane gas. It gets good gas mileage but the cost per mile isn't that much better than my Silverado which runs fine on 87 octane. It's my fault for not knowing this before but it should probably have been mentioned by the salesperson. I've heard other turbos need high test too so it's something to consider.
That seems like a big annoyance around here. 93 Octane is not available at most gas stations. I'd hate to be driving around and not only have to keep track if I am getting low on fuel but also WHERE I might be able to get it and whether I have enough gas remaining to get there.
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Old 01-01-2021, 08:38 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by rick35 View Post
We bought a Chevy Equinox with the 2L turbo last year. It is a peppy car and we liked the performance during the test drive. It was great until we got it home and when reading the manual discovered it ran on 93 octane gas. It gets good gas mileage but the cost per mile isn't that much better than my Silverado which runs fine on 87 octane. It's my fault for not knowing this before but it should probably have been mentioned by the salesperson. I've heard other turbos need high test too so it's something to consider.
The need for high octane was one of the reasons I chose an NA engine in my one full-sized pickup, though I believe many of the new T/SC vehicles with direct injection run fine on regular.

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Old 01-01-2021, 10:41 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iw8surf View Post
I’ll never own a car again with out keyless entry/start again... leave the keys in my pocket I walk right up and the doors unlock, push button to start... great, Y’all living in 1990
Living in the 90's.....
Driving a 1997 Mercury Grand Marquis LS
No stop & start No turbo
Runs on 87 octane fuel. 20-25 mpg
Has keys to unlock and start car
Not that old or lazy that I can't put a key
in the ignition to start the car
Plus the car is roomy and a pleasure to
drive.
"Don't leave home without it!"
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Old 01-03-2021, 12:20 AM   #21
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That seems like a big annoyance around here. 93 Octane is not available at most gas stations. I'd hate to be driving around and not only have to keep track if I am getting low on fuel but also WHERE I might be able to get it and whether I have enough gas remaining to get there.
We've never had a problem getting 93 octane. I understand 91 works ok but is not optimal. It's a good thing that we haven't had issues as the tank is small and we seem to fill up more than we'd like.
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Old 01-03-2021, 01:27 PM   #22
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I wonder if all that Start/Stop does a number on the starter ?
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Old 01-03-2021, 01:43 PM   #23
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I wonder if all that Start/Stop does a number on the starter ?

I wonder that too. And you would think the starting and stopping would create worse fuel economy not better.
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Old 01-03-2021, 11:02 PM   #24
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Many of the components have to be beefed up to handle the stresses of repeated stops/starts and remain reliable. Further, some systems that ran off belts, for example A/C compressor & water pump, need to be changed over to be powered by an electrical motor. That also requires a beefed up battery to power these systems while the engine is stopped. In fact, if the battery is low, the start/stop may not activate. Then you need all the monitoring and management systems to keep it all coordinated.

While it is likely that the beefed up systems, like a starter, will last as long as a normal system component, it will cost more to replace the beefed up and possibly more complex component.

As it turns out, the cost in fuel to restart is insignificant once the car is warmed up.

And the reason for all this is to cut down on a bit of pollution and save a little gas. However, this may be gaming the system because the energy and pollution to produce all these beefed up components plus the energy costs to carry the extra weight of them around through the lifetime of a car might offset the benefit of stopping the engine for a bit. Plus it adds to the costs of recycling the bigger components at end of life. No one wants to take a hard look at that because it's an ugly truth. Manufacturers needed to cut pollution and get better gas mileage which government tracks but they added downside costs to other parts of car ownership that no one pays attention to. Just because it isn't monitored doesn't mean it is a net positive.

On top of all this, it simply costs more. If there was a positive accomplishment for the cost, maybe it would be worth it. But we may be paying more simply to play regulation games of no ultimate value.
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Old 01-04-2021, 12:16 AM   #25
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Another fuel economy inspired issue is the automated fuel management system in my Silverado. Whenever possible the engine drops from six cylinders to four. It's supposed to be a seamless transition from 6 to 4 and back to 6 cylinders. I get a sluggishness when transitioning back and after 5 trips to the dealer they said it was normal and I had to live with it. I'm almost used to it after 5 years.
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Old 01-04-2021, 06:45 AM   #26
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Default Other engine options

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Another fuel economy inspired issue is the automated fuel management system in my Silverado. Whenever possible the engine drops from six cylinders to four. It's supposed to be a seamless transition from 6 to 4 and back to 6 cylinders. I get a sluggishness when transitioning back and after 5 trips to the dealer they said it was normal and I had to live with it. I'm almost used to it after 5 years.
Are there other engine options, or do all Silverados have the auto fuel management?

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Old 01-04-2021, 07:31 AM   #27
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Another fuel economy inspired issue is the automated fuel management system in my Silverado. Whenever possible the engine drops from six cylinders to four. It's supposed to be a seamless transition from 6 to 4 and back to 6 cylinders. I get a sluggishness when transitioning back and after 5 trips to the dealer they said it was normal and I had to live with it. I'm almost used to it after 5 years.
Maybe it is different in the 6 cylinder vehicles. I have it in two Tahoes (2007 and 2019) and a 2020 GM sportscar with the 6.2 V8. I cannot even tell when the engine transitions from 8 cylinders to 4 cylinders and back. The only way I know it is happening is the V4 and V8 indicator on the dashboard.
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Old 01-04-2021, 10:03 PM   #28
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Are there other engine options, or do all Silverados have the auto fuel management?

Dave
I'm not sure what is offered now but AFM came with the 6 and 8 cylinder engines.
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Old 01-05-2021, 08:16 AM   #29
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I hadn't thought about this and it's not mentioned in the online info but I am getting a new Ram 1500 and, GUESS WHAT? It has Start/Stop. I am getting the V6 eTorque engine which has a 48V battery backed, on demand, torque boost. The Ram also uses that system to smooth out the "start" portion of the Start/Stop. Soon I will be able to evaluate Start/Stop for myself. I'm sure it will be weird. However, the truck also comes with a bunch of safety features like automatic braking and lane keep which apply brakes and twitch the steering without driver input. I am sure I am going to be doing a lot of "WHAT THE HECK WAS THAT?" as I get used to it.

My first thought was, "I'm going to be getting used to automatically shutting off the Stop/Start when I get in the truck." but my second thought is that I want to get used to the way the system works so it isn't a surprise when I don't think to deactivate it. If it DOES become an annoyance, I will go back to my first thought to shut it off when I first start up. I suspect it will be fine given a little adjustment time.
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Old 01-06-2021, 07:00 PM   #30
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I hadn't thought about this and it's not mentioned in the online info but I am getting a new Ram 1500 and, GUESS WHAT? It has Start/Stop. I am getting the V6 eTorque engine which has a 48V battery backed, on demand, torque boost. The Ram also uses that system to smooth out the "start" portion of the Start/Stop. Soon I will be able to evaluate Start/Stop for myself. I'm sure it will be weird. However, the truck also comes with a bunch of safety features like automatic braking and lane keep which apply brakes and twitch the steering without driver input. I am sure I am going to be doing a lot of "WHAT THE HECK WAS THAT?" as I get used to it.

My first thought was, "I'm going to be getting used to automatically shutting off the Stop/Start when I get in the truck." but my second thought is that I want to get used to the way the system works so it isn't a surprise when I don't think to deactivate it. If it DOES become an annoyance, I will go back to my first thought to shut it off when I first start up. I suspect it will be fine given a little adjustment time.
With a vehicle with the extra "features" I recommend you get the extended warranty. The cost to fix one of these will pay for it.
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Old 01-06-2021, 07:08 PM   #31
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Jeff, you really don't need to even think about it starting. I love it, I think people overthink it. I think if you drive like you would if you didn't have it, you won't even notice . I have the lane keeper too and it does surprise you when you go too close to the line and it sort of hesitates or something. You might ask what the heck that was when it pulls you back.
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