Hateful pms

[Evenstar]

This is supposed to be a friendly, helpful forum.

So I find it very distressing that I've been getting hateful pm's from other registered members here - and I believe these are members who are in high standing here (I know at least one is).

So how do I handle this? And how am I supposed to feel about being treated this way on a supposedly friendly forum?

[Skipper of the Sea Que]

Originally Posted by Evenstar

This is supposed to be a friendly, helpful forum.

So I find it very distressing that I've been getting hateful pm's from other registered members here - and I believe these are members who are in high standing here (I know at least one is).

So how do I handle this? And how am I supposed to feel about being treated this way on a supposedly friendly forum?

Evenstar, I am not one of your biggest fans - after all, among other things you have inferred that I am/was Lame and (getting) Pathetic - not to rehash old stuff. I don't think I'm pathetic or lame - although I do use a cane to help keep me up, you've never seen me walk, or seen me limp.

My friendly advice to you is to IGNORE nasty PMs. Maybe turn OFF your PM for a while. As for how you should feel about the way you perceive you are treated by "some people" on the forum. I suggest you feel Apathetic about "nastiness" but, IMHO, it's not my place to tell you how you should feel.

Consider the source of these PMs. Are they from credible people? Is their information valid and meaningful? Are they simply trying to get you all riled? Sticks and stones and etc... (you know)...

I'll also suggest that you may want to give some thought to a different approach to your posting style.

I believe this to be a very friendly forum and an oasis on the Internet. I sincerely hope my response has been of some help to you.

Thinking faster than my fingers can keyboard

[brk-lnt]

As Al said, you're best of just ignoring it.

For whatever reason, you insist on maintaining a certain attitude in your posts that make you come off as very arrogant and bull headed. Couple this with the fact that you're supporting an unpopular opinion amongst the forum in general, and the rest kind of writes itself.

Several people have tried to give you some advice on how you can communicate your viewpoint without sounding so obnoxious, but you persist in your approach.

While I don't think most of the topics here are worth dragging into PMs, I will say that your treatment is no different than someone in society at large who speaks loudly and frequently against the majority opinion.

[JDeere]

Evenstar I am a fan of your postings but at some point you have to stop taking the bait. You have made your point and your side won. Block the folks who send you the nasty PM's and forget about them.

If you choose not to block them then you have to be honest with yourself and understand that it takes 2 to tango.

[Evenstar]

Thanks so much for your responses.

Originally Posted by Skipper of the Sea Que

Evenstar, I am not one of your biggest fans - after all, among other things you have inferred that I am/was Lame and (getting) Pathetic - not to rehash old stuff.

I addressed that comment to "you guys," after a number of posters had personally attacked me.

On a forum like this one, there are only words. Hateful words and comments as the "Sticks and stones."

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

For whatever reason, you insist on maintaining a certain attitude in your posts that make you come off as very arrogant and bull headed. Couple this with the fact that you're supporting an unpopular opinion amongst the forum in general, and the rest kind of writes itself. Several people have tried to give you some advice on how you can communicate your viewpoint without sounding so obnoxious, but you persist in your approach.

I've tried to explain this several times, but most of my critics here don't seem to understand: I suffered a rather severe head injury when I was very young, which damaged much of the left side of my brain. So I have some major language problems. Putting my thoughts into words is very difficult, since I am only able to think in images. I am very direct and extremely literal - that's the only way that I can communicate. I was also taught to stand up for myself and for my beliefs. If that comes across as "very arrogant and bull headed", then I'm sorry.

[NightWing]

Originally Posted by Evenstar

Thanks so much for your responses.


I addressed that comment to "you guys," after a number of posters had personally attacked me.

On a forum like this one, there are only words. Hateful words and comments as the "Sticks and stones."


I've tried to explain this several times, but most of my critics here don't seem to understand: I suffered a rather severe head injury when I was very young, which damaged much of the left side of my brain. So I have some major language problems. Putting my thoughts into words is very difficult, since I am only able to think in images. I am very direct and extremely literal - that's the only way that I can communicate. I was also taught to stand up for myself and for my beliefs. If that comes across as "very arrogant and bull headed", then I'm sorry.

Evenstar, I have observed your postings in several threads and it is very obvious to me that you are extremely passionate in your beliefs and truly love and respect the beautiful waterways of New Hampshire.

I have known about your brain injury for a short while and am indeed impressed that you have overcome your language problems. I would never have guessed the difficulty you speak of. You have obviously worked very hard to overcome your shortfalls and I salute you for that.

I post here from time to time and, for the most part, don't run into much opposition of my views or information that I present. I can think of only one or two individuals who like to poke, prod and argue. Further exchange within the thread only causes more opposition because some folks are as entrenched in their opinions as I am in mine.

There comes a time when it is best to present one's case, discuss it a bit and not pursue it if it is apparent that the audience is not responding the way you would like. Sometimes it is best to just let it go, rather than get upset and further your own grief.

There is no pass/fail in forums such as this one. Sometimes it is best to retreat with dignity. I wish you all the best.

[sa meredith]

I just recently started reading your posts, as the speed limit debate simply does not interest me (there are limits on the road ways, but people get away with whatever they can...my self included...the water will be the same)
but Evanstar..as I stated previously...you get "sucked in" everytime.
I think people are just toying with you...

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by Evenstar

I've tried to explain this several times, but most of my critics here don't seem to understand: I suffered a rather severe head injury when I was very young, which damaged much of the left side of my brain. So I have some major language problems. Putting my thoughts into words is very difficult, since I am only able to think in images. I am very direct and extremely literal - that's the only way that I can communicate. I was also taught to stand up for myself and for my beliefs. If that comes across as "very arrogant and bull headed", then I'm sorry.

And I'm sure people have read your explanations several times. The PMs you get would indicate that those folks are not sympathetic to your condition.

You have identified a fairly stable feedback loop here:
- You post your thoughts/feelings in the best manner that you can ->
People get irritated or annoyed by your position and flog you publicly and privately.


You can accept the flogging, difficult as it might be. Or, you can stop posting. Unfortunately (and I mean this very very sincerely) you are not likely to cause the vast majority of people here to like you or accept you without some change on YOUR part. Trust me, I get that you may not want to, or may not be able to change.

I applaud you for standing up for your position and taking the time to articulate your thoughts. I would also suggest that you would do best to simply drop/ignore any speed limit and kayak safety debates, your efforts there sound time consuming, and you are not making any progress for the effort spent.

[RI Swamp Yankee]

Originally Posted by Evenstar

.... So how do I handle this? ...

I would offer this quote by General "Vinegar Joe" Stilwell Illegitimi Non Carborundum

[ApS]

"That which gives light must endure burning".

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by RI Swamp Yankee

I would offer this quote by General "Vinegar Joe" Stilwell Illegitimi Non Carborundum

Illegitimi non carborundum is a mock-Latin aphorism jokingly taken to mean "don't let the bastards grind you down". Translation from Wikipedia.

The bottom line is there were a lot of negative posts from both sides of the aisle. You held your own pretty well without much name calling-earning a degree of respect from me. Others on both sides did not do the same-causing a loss of respect.

Ignore and enjoy your college experience!

[hazelnut]

I think Don would be interested to know who the folks were and he might take some action against them???

-or-

Just hit the ignore button.


.02

[webmaster]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

I think Don would be interested to know who the folks were and he might take some action against them???

I can't do much about private messages or emails between members. You can disable them in your User CP if you don't want to receive them.

Evenstar, could you post a few of the hateful messages (without names) in this thread so we can see what you are referring to?

[Island Life]

Originally Posted by webmaster

Evenstar, could you post a few of the hateful messages (without names) in this thread so we can see what you are referring to?

Personally, I think if people are cowardly enough to send nasty pms instead of posting publicly for all to read, I think those people's names should be included in whatever pms Evenstar might share.

[Evenstar]

Originally Posted by webmaster

I can't do much about private messages or emails between members. You can disable them in your User CP if you don't want to receive them.

I know, and I did that for a while, just to get some peace. But most on the pms that I receive are nice pms - so I would like to be able to read those and be able to respond to those members.

Evenstar, could you post a few of the hateful messages (without names) in this thread so we can see what you are referring to?

Sure, but I've already deleted some of the worse ones, as I never even replied to them and never wanted to see them again. I do still have two recent pms:

pm#1 (recieved 8/15)

Unbelievable!

---

How dare you accuse another forum member of ruining a thread. No one has abused Don's website and his rules more than you! Listen, you are not fooling me with the "I'm just a twenty something blonde college gal" crap.

You, sir, are a fifty something year old male...and I find your charade disturbing. Grow up and act your age..... Enough said!

My reply to the above pm:
"Whether you believe it or not, the truth is that I am a full time college student, entering my Senior year at Roger Williams University - and a member of the varsity sailing team. I never stated that I was "twenty something" - in fact, I have corrected people here who make comments that I was just a young college kid, when I've always stated that I was a non-traditional/older student. And I am not a male, but am in fact a FEMALE, and I do have long BLONDE hair. I was on the WOMAN'S varsity volleyball team at NH Technical Institute in Concord and current a FEMALE member of the Intercollegiate Sailing Association.

I found your pm extremely insulting and totally uncalled for. I am really sick of you guys' constant attacks on me - just because of your hate for anyone who is different. I have been extremely open about myself - while you guys hide behind the anonymity of the Internet and hurl insults at others. You sir, are the one who needs to grow up."

The pm's from this member went downhill from there.

----------------------------------------------------------

pm#2 (from a differnent member - recieved 8/25) - this one is not nearly as bad, but it is still hateful.

Began by quoting a portion of one ofg my posts:
"It is a shame that some members of this forum can’t have a debate without resorting to personal attacks on anyone who has opposing views. There have been posts made just to poke fun at me or to insult my abilities, my skills, or my intelligence. I’m going to have to think long and hard about remaining a member here, as I have been hurt really badly by some members – not only by the way that I have been treated in many posts, but by also with hateful pms that have made all sorts of bigoted comments about me – just because I am different"

bye

---

Good riddance........Im personally sick of reading your posts anyway......

[SIKSUKR]

I certainly don't see the hate you talk about in the last post.I'm pretty annoyed at most of your posts also.You constantly complain about everyone disagreeing with you.Frankly,I feel you bring a lot of anomosity on by the tone of your posts.That doesn't mean you should be silenced but neither should anyone else.I'm sure I'll be accused of picking on you now.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

I certainly don't see the hate you talk about in the last post.I'm pretty annoyed at most of your posts also.You constantly complain about everyone disagreeing with you.Frankly,I feel you bring a lot of anomosity on by the tone of your posts.That doesn't mean you should be silenced but neither should anyone else.I'm sure I'll be accused of picking on you now.

"If at first you don't succeed, quit! No sense in making a fool of yourself!"

WC Fields

[sa meredith]

Evanstar....I sent you a long, well wishing email, as I felt bad about hate emails you have received.
However, today I have learned quite abit more. I'm not going to write much about...as it is not my place. But I learned what the "head injury" was, and what has taken place over the past 5 years......I believe you to be a bit to alot disingenuous. There is no disputing this. You should publish your story here with a link to the newspaper article. Just my opinion...I will say nothing more.

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by sa meredith

You should publish your story here with a link to the newspaper article. Just my opinion...I will say nothing more.

Do a search...

This is old news to the members of this Forum.

I'll spend some time tonight to try to find the posts - can't remember the thread.

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by sa meredith

Evanstar....I sent you a long, well wishing email, as I felt bad about hate emails you have received.
However, today I have learned quite abit more. I'm not going to write much about...as it is not my place. But I learned what the "head injury" was, and what has taken place over the past 5 years......I believe you to be a bit to alot disingenuous. There is no disputing this. You should publish your story here with a link to the newspaper article. Just my opinion...I will say nothing more.

The personal event to which you elude was made public to the Forum members in this thread:

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...3204#post63204

It starts with post #5 (02-10-2008, 12:04 PM ) and then continues with post #10, with post #15 being Evenstar's response.

Did not notice a post from you in the thread, so that may be why you were unaware.

[tis]

sa, quite a while ago, Evenstar posted the link to the whole story about her. At least I thought it was here. I know I read it and I don't know her.

[Evenstar]

Originally Posted by sa meredith

Evanstar....I sent you a long, well wishing email, as I felt bad about hate emails you have received.
However, today I have learned quite abit more. I'm not going to write much about...as it is not my place. But I learned what the "head injury" was, and what has taken place over the past 5 years......I believe you to be a bit to alot disingenuous. There is no disputing this. You should publish your story here with a link to the newspaper article. Just my opinion...I will say nothing more.

Your pm is among the nice pms that I have received, and I sent you a long reply to further explain my head injury.

No, you weren't "Duped", and I have not been disingenuous. Like most people, who learn a little bit about me, you have jumped to completely wrong conclusions about something that you really don't understand fully. My medical history is extremely complicated. At one point I was seeing 9 doctors at once and underwent a complicated surgery at Dartmouth Medical Center that took 14 hours and involved 4 surgeons. My surgery was halted partway through and the head neurosurgeon was called in to examine me, when spinal fluid was discovered in an area that it shouldn't be.

I have never, ever misrepresented myself on this forum, or been anything but totally honest here. When members of this forum suggested that the story in the Concord Monitor might be about me, I openly admitted that it was indeed written about me. I've even given out my location, along with my real name. (If anyone wants to read what was written about me, go to concordmonitor.com, and search for "Arwen.")

sa meredith, you don't know the whole story, so please stop judging me on what you think you know. The story in the Concord Monitor never even mentioned my disabilities or my head injury - which happened many years ago, when I was very young. My head injury was very real and I have medical proof that I suffered rather severe brain injury to the left side of my brain. I had two documented learning disabilities due to language problems and the right side of my brain is actually overdeveloped (to compensate to the damage to the left side). I have seen scores of doctors, from neurosurgeons to endocrinologists.

I'm not making this stuff up. I've been though hell, and most of my doctors tell me that I'm the strongest person they know. So please don't judge me because of one label, that very few people can actually understand. Melanie did a very good job writing the story about me, and only made a few errors, due to not fully understanding what I tried to explain. But that is not the whole story. It would take a book to tell my whole story.

[Evenstar]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

I certainly don't see the hate you talk about in the last post.I'm pretty annoyed at most of your posts also.You constantly complain about everyone disagreeing with you.Frankly,I feel you bring a lot of anomosity on by the tone of your posts.That doesn't mean you should be silenced but neither should anyone else.I'm sure I'll be accused of picking on you now.

Look, that pm made a LOT of false accusations about me. It and the other pms that I received from that particular member were FULL of bigoted HATE. This is the same type of bigoted hate that leads to hate crimes. It was not the type of pm that a member of a "very friendly" forum should ever receive.

I have never complained just because someone disagreed with me on this forum. I have complained when personal attacks were made on me - which happen to be against the forum rules.

My "anomosity" probably comes from that fact that I have to constantly defend my abilities, my intelligence, and my knowledge on this forum, from a small minority of members who resort to personal attacks whenever they start losing a debate.

[Pineedles]

Originally Posted by Evenstar

My "anomosity" probably comes from that fact that I have to constantly defend my abilities, my intelligence, and my knowledge on this forum, from a small minority of members who resort to personal attacks whenever they start losing a debate.

If you have different opinions than those you are debating against you are going to have to defend all of the above. That is what debating is all about. As for a small minority, I don't think it is a small minority. If you are really concerned about keeping the speed limit in effect, which I am opposed to, you will be held up as the poster child in the future to legislators of "who" wants the speed limit. "Who" being a very troubled person who is struggling with their own personal identity. My sympathies go out to you and your wife, she seems to be the one who has supported you and yet suffered the most. Your animosity will not be forgiven in the world of politics, it will be recognized only as animosity. So sorry to have to tell you what the real world is all about, but you have pushed the limits of everyone on the forum and it was time to let you know that I, as well as many others are tired of this debate.

Don is closing the the speed limits thread soon, and that is the real purpose of my message to you. The debate is over for now, and I don't think there is a category on the Winnipesaukee Forum categories for YOUR story. Frankly, I think you have always wanted this debate to wind up being about you or was just apersonal challenge for YOU. That is my opinion, you may disagree, I really don't care. I have read this message that I am posting several times, and don't see any personal attacks or name calling. If you take exception to the "poster child" reference it is not a personal attack or biased statement, it is reality. Willie Horton was a "poster child" for that brought Michael Dukakis' run for the White House down. Since I understand that you have trouble remembering some past events, I have given you this reference so you don't feel crucified by the reference. Once again this correlation, is not an attack, just a helpful point of reference.

[Silver Duck]

Evenstar

Although your medical history doubtless makes it necessary for you to put more thought and effort into the communication process than you might otherwise have needed to, you've succeeded in overcoming the effects of your injuries magnificently (and I use that term advisedly!)

Please accept my assurances that your ability to communicate is "top notch"!

Silver Duck

[hazelnut]

I am officially voting for this thread to be completely removed from the forum. Once again way too much time is being dedicated to one particular members "feelings" and how they were "hurt."

Please Don I beg you to remove this entire thread as it offers absolutely no information with regard to the lake and the activities that encompass it.

I apologize in advance for telling you how to do your job, but seriously this thread has no use whatsoever that I can see.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

I am officially voting for this thread to be completely removed from the forum. Once again way too much time is being dedicated to one particular members "feelings" and how they were "hurt."

Please Don I beg you to remove this entire thread as it offers absolutely no information with regard to the lake and the activities that encompass it.

I apologize in advance for telling you how to do your job, but seriously this thread has no use whatsoever that I can see.

First off, two thumbs up to you Hazelnut....you took the words right off of my keyboard!

This is the mission statement of this particular website:

"To facilitate communication and an exchange of information which is productive and beneficial for those interested in Lake Winnipesaukee and the Lakes Region of New Hampshire."


What in God's name has this thread got to do with the above purpose?

Evenstar, if you want to rehash the speed limit debate and your personal life story, then do so on your own dime on your own website. Let this site migrate back to it's original intent and purpose!

Once again, you have taken extreme liberties with the webmaster's sense of fairness and balance, and have led this website far astray of what many of us have come to expect and enjoy from the company and camraderie that has been the bastion of this resource for many years.

Enough is ENOUGH!

[Evenstar]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

If you have different opinions than those you are debating against you are going to have to defend all of the above. That is what debating is all about. As for a small minority, I don't think it is a small minority. If you are really concerned about keeping the speed limit in effect, which I am opposed to, you will be held up as the poster child in the future to legislators of "who" wants the speed limit.

My point was that a small minority of members here resort to personal attacks whenever they feel that they are losing a debate.

... "Who" being a very troubled person who is struggling with their own personal identity. My sympathies go out to you and your wife, she seems to be the one who has supported you and yet suffered the most. Your animosity will not be forgiven in the world of politics, it will be recognized only as animosity. So sorry to have to tell you what the real world is all about, but you have pushed the limits of everyone on the forum and it was time to let you know that I, as well as many others are tired of this debate.

This is exactly what I tried to address in a recent reply, but you and many others would rather just jump onto your preconceived notions of what someone like me must be like. You don’t understand, and I doubt that I could ever explain myself in a way that you would truly understand. First of all, I don’t have a wife. I am legally a female. And I’m not a “very troubled person”, nor do I now, or have I ever struggled with, my personal identity. I am the same person I have always been and my personally identity has never changed. I was the first NHTI student to ever win an internship at the NH Senate. Do you think that a “very troubled person” would be allowed to intern at the State House? I also won numerous awards at NHTI for leadership, academics, and for my service as volunteer. I received a national award as a member of Phi Theta Kappa, where I represented NHTI. I also represented NHTI at two national student leadership conferences, and was also asked to speak at my graduation.

. . .I don't think there is a category on the Winnipesaukee Forum categories for YOUR story. Frankly, I think you have always wanted this debate to wind up being about you . . .

I NEVER even mentioned “my story” in these forums until other members posted about it. And I have posted next to nothing about this story until now, after people like you post false statements about me, because of conclusions they jump to after reading the Concord Monitor article. I NEVER wanted the debate to be about me – I tried very hard to make it about the safety of paddlers on NH lakes. I just happened to be one of the kayakers who were willing to stand up for my views – on a forum where I was very much in the minority. It became about me, only after the personal attacks began. And after I finally decided to post about the hateful pms that I have been receiving here.

Since I understand that you have trouble remembering some past events, I have given you this reference so you don't feel crucified by the reference. Once again this correlation, is not an attack, just a helpful point of reference.

Again, you do not understand what you read about me. And you are again jumping to false conclusions. There is nothing wrong with my memory (other than my difficulty in memorizing words – which is actually a language issue). I doubt that you will get my point here, but do you remember past events that someone else experienced?
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by Silver Duck

Although your medical history doubtless makes it necessary for you to put more thought and effort into the communication process than you might otherwise have needed to, you've succeeded in overcoming the effects of your injuries magnificently (and I use that term advisedly!) Please accept my assurances that your ability to communicate is "top notch"!
Silver Duck

Thank you so much! I’ve had to take a LOT of writing courses in working toward my two majors. It’s good to know that my education and hard work is helping me to communicate better.

[Evenstar]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

I am officially voting for this thread to be completely removed from the forum. Once again way too much time is being dedicated to one particular members "feelings" and how they were "hurt." Please Don I beg you to remove this entire thread as it offers absolutely no information with regard to the lake and the activities that encompass it. I apologize in advance for telling you how to do your job, but seriously this thread has no use whatsoever that I can see.

Originally Posted by Skip

First off, two thumbs up to you Hazelnut....you took the words right off of my keyboard! This is the mission statement of this particular website: "To facilitate communication and an exchange of information which is productive and beneficial for those interested in Lake Winnipesaukee and the Lakes Region of New Hampshire." What in God's name has this thread got to do with the above purpose?

This happens to be the Support Forum! Its purpose is to: “Help with anything directly related to your use of this site including your digital camera, computer or general questions, suggestions and support. . .” I’m asking for support for what I feel are wrongful acts of other members. I’m not the one who brought “my story” or the speed limit debate into this discussion. This is supposed to be about the problem of hateful pms.

Once again, you have taken extreme liberties with the webmaster's sense of fairness and balance, and have led this website far astray of what many of us have come to expect and enjoy from the company and camraderie that has been the bastion of this resource for many years. Enough is ENOUGH!

As you are very aware, you are one of the main reasons for me starting this thread, so it doesn't really surprise me that you are now attempting to end this discussion. If I didn’t care about this place, I would never have started this thread. Bigoted hate can destroy sites like this.

[Skip]

Thanks for making my point!

I rest my case....

[Island Life]

Don, I vote that you remove this thread. While I seem to have a little more sympathy for Evenstar than most - yes, I'm a proud liberal; yes, I believe in Dissociative Identity Disorder; and no, i have no problem with gender reassignment if it's right for the individual - she has beaten this poor horse to death. And the rest of you have simply beaten Evenstar to death. It's just getting too cruel and so inappropriate for the forum - let's end this.

[ITD]

Mr. Webmaster, please end this, Thank you.

[RLW]

Originally Posted by ITD

Mr. Webmaster, please end this, Thank you.

I second this and if Don can not remove it for some reason, I would suggest that we as readers/contributors just do not respond to it any more.
All of you have a great and SAFE Labor Day weekend.

[Lakepilot]

In retrospect, this thread has been more about personal issues then kayaks, speed limits or whatever. Unfortunately anybody quickly reading portions of it will not have the context needed to know this. I believe it should be deleted.

[VitaBene]

send it to the abyss, please!!

[Pineedles]

I am posting in this thread one last time so that others will know that I still stand by my earlier post. I refuse to get into a tit for tat arguement on this thread and continue with this insane back and forth. Evenstar, if you wish to continue the arguement, PM me. I will be glad to respond in a polite and non-degrading manner.