Engine will not start?

bigdog · 10-09-2008, 08:00 PM

Hi Folks,

Having a problems starting my engine ? Engine cranks, plenty of battery power, but doesn't want to kick-over? It was started a few weeks ago.

Almost seems like I'm not getting any spark ? There is an old way I know to check spark, and that is by pulling one of the ignition wires, and inserting the end of a screwdriver into the wire-boot, then placing screwdriver about 1/2 inch away from the engine block, and having someone crank the engine.
Obviously, you want to use an insulated screwdriver. It should spark across the block to the screwdriver. If it doesn't then I would check all ignit. wires for same result. If they all fail, I would suspect a bad coil ?

My neighbor, a NASCAR junkie, and a motorhead, told me an easier but similiar way to check for 'spark'. Remove one of the ignition wires, remove the spark plug entirely from the block, then put the spark plug back into the ignition wire boot. He said if you crank the engine, you should hear a 'pop', and also see the plug arc. This seems a little bit easierand safer, than the 'screwdrive' method described above.

If anyone has suggestions, it would be appreciated!

Thanks

wifi · 10-10-2008, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdog

...... Remove one of the ignition wires, remove the spark plug entirely from the block, then put the spark plug back into the ignition wire boot. He said if you crank the engine, you should hear a 'pop', and also see the plug arc.....

You should really ground the spark plug, with this method you get the same exposure to high voltage as with holding the screwdriver in the boot method.

Another way would be if you had one of those old fashioned timing strobe lights that plugged into the ignition wires, you would be a little more isolated from the (hopeful) lightening storm.

NonVoting Taxpayer · 10-10-2008, 06:43 AM

If you have gas with ethanol that could be your problem. The gas doesn't have much of a shelf life. Spray starter fluid in the carborator and see if you get any reaction. If you do then you have a spark.
Had a similar problem and changing the gas did the trick.

Audiofn · 10-10-2008, 07:19 AM

I do not know what kind of engine you have but there is a wire that often comes off your starter that boosts voltage to your coil while you are cranking. If this wire falls off it will be very hard to start the engine. For a few bucks you can go to an auto parts store and buy a spark tester that you take off the wire from your plug and put this inline between the wire and plug. This way you are not cranking your engine with out the plug in there (not that that is a bad thing). The nice thing about that is that if you are having a high RPM studder it can make it much easier to find the problem.

NightWing · 10-10-2008, 09:57 AM

You didn't mention what type of engine you have but if it is an inboard or I/O, I would be extremely careful trying to test for an open spark in area that has the potential for accumulation of gas fumes.

Seeker · 10-10-2008, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightWing

You didn't mention what type of engine you have but if it is an inboard or I/O, I would be extremely careful trying to test for an open spark in area that has the potential for accumulation of gas fumes.

Agree with this 100%. It also would help if you told us what type of engine you have. If the boat is out of the water are you sure that some thief hasn't stolen all your gasoline?

OK I know what your engine is from your old posts this summer. 1995 Mercruiser w/o FI. Did you ever get the old problem straightened out?

Cal · 10-10-2008, 05:17 PM

Safety lanyard clip laying on the floor and not clipped into position cost me an ignition module and distributor pickup before I noticed it was missing

Ok so now I have spares , hows yours?

bigdog · 10-10-2008, 08:23 PM

Hi again...

Engine is 4.3LX Mercruiser. Boat is out of water when I attemmpted to start.
Tried to spray starting fluid directly into the carb but did not seem to affect anything.

Gas is fairly full but is leftover from this past season, as I wasn't able to do much boating this year.

Will check all wires to starter motor,and coil, then report back to Forum.

Thanks,
Bigdog

SIKSUKR · 10-11-2008, 08:59 AM

I would put fuel stabilizer in the tank and run it for a bit when you get it started.

Grady223 · 10-15-2008, 08:28 AM

I had the same problem with the same engine - turned out to be a bad fuel pump.

robmac · 10-15-2008, 09:44 AM

Sounds electronic,he tried starting fluid which did nothing so that rules out fuel and or pump for a crank no start. Your going to have to start with the basics,start testing for spark at the plug and work back to source. This method has been done for years and saves money on throwing darts( Dollars) at the problem.

Woodsy · 10-15-2008, 09:58 AM

RobMac is right.. Start with the basics!

You need fuel, air & spark to get motor to run. If you crank it over on either and the motor doesnt even sputter... its a spark issue!

Now the fun part.... tracing the problem!

Woodsy

chipj29 · 10-15-2008, 11:11 AM

If you haven't already done so, I would start with new spark plugs if it were me...

Dave R · 10-16-2008, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsy

RobMac is right.. Start with the basics!

You need fuel, air & spark to get motor to run. If you crank it over on either and the motor doesnt even sputter... its a spark issue!

Now the fun part.... tracing the problem!

Woodsy

Need compression too...

Woodsy · 10-16-2008, 07:11 AM

Dave..

Your right LOL! I just "assumed" he had compression! LOL!

Dave R · 10-16-2008, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Dave..

Your right LOL! I just "assumed" he had compression! LOL!

I chased a no-start problem for a couple of hours once and it turned out to be "tulipped" valves that had run out of lash and were no longer closing all the way. It would crank all day, there was plenty of spark, air, and fuel, but it would never fire. Compression was pretty close to zero when the engine was cold.

Audiofn · 10-16-2008, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave R

Need compression too...

If you don't have compresion you wont have air....

Well you could have bad exhaust valves and still dray in from the intake, but with the exhaust being larger maybe you would suck more air back in from the exhaust..... Some one go out and blow up thier motor and let us know!!!

Rockdaddy · 10-16-2008, 02:23 PM

I've used this web site to help me trouble shoot a no spark condition on my boat. http://www.marinemechanic.com/site/page19.html
Hope it helps

macshpman · 10-16-2008, 06:35 PM

Exhaust valves are always smaller in diameter then the intake valve. 1.940" intake valve and 1.500" exhaust diameter in that engine

eye spy · 10-16-2008, 09:21 PM

If you have boat out of water call All Boat Repair in Belmont 267-7223.

See if you can take it over to him for repair, had same problem with my Glastron 4.3 this summer and was fix for less than 100.00. give him a try.

bigdog · 10-19-2008, 07:56 PM

Hi Folks,

Haven't been able to work on engine for last 2 weeks.
Back on track!

First thing I'll do is check for spark at plug. If I get spark, will then check fuel supply.

If my fuel pump (Electric),is not pumping fuel, do you think I could perform a quick check to confirm by disconnecting fuel line to Carb, and placing a small
container under fuel line (to catch any fuel), and have a partner crank engine quickly once, to check that fuel is pumping to Carb? Or would this be too dangerous? Sounds a little like a 'Rube Goldberg' plan, but I don't what to go
'KA-BOOM' in the process !

All I want to do is confirm that I am pumping fuel.
Would you know of another way to test, if the fuel pump is working?

Again, first thing I'll do is check for spark before proceeding any further.

Thanks,
Bigdog

bigdog · 10-19-2008, 08:20 PM

Back again.....

Forgot to mention some of the symtoms.....

I can seem to crank the engine all day but seems like it doesn't even try to start? I pump my throttle handle a 5-6 times first, but nothing.

What bothers me is that I don't even smell any gas, even after continued starting and pumping> I would think I would smell gas, especially if I flooded the engine after repeated attemps to start?

Also, 'Cal' mentioned, the 'Safety lanyard clip'. My lanyard is not attached, to the switch other then when I'm on water. This safety 'lever-switch '(Start/Stop), is located just beneath the throttle handle.
I have checked this, and it is in the 'start' position.

Could there be a problem with this switch inside? If this switch is not working propperly, you'd never start the engine. You could crank all day with no effect. This Safety Lanyard switch, may also control or cutout the fuel supply, as well as the electrical output to the 'starter motor, coil, Distributor', etc.

Thoughts?

Woodsy · 10-20-2008, 12:59 PM

KISS.... Keep it simple!

There is no fuel cutoff... its all done by killing the spark. Being able to smell gasoline in a boat is NEVER a good thing! Make sure your hatch is up and your bilge blower is on when performing ALL tests!

Before you go off on a tangent...

1. Check for SPARK! You can crank all day but if there is no spark there will be NO ignition. If no spark then you gotta start tracing the problem back.

2. If there is spark, then check for fuel... the easiest way to do this is with a can of starting fluid... if the engine tries to start on the starting fluid then the problem is fuel related....

3. Check your safety lanyard again... wiggle the switch and try to start in both positions...

4. If you have no spark, wiggle your throttle in and out of gear... check to see that your outdrive is indeed in neutral! (you should be able to spin your propeller by hand in BOTH directions! Its entirely possible that your neutral safety switch has failed or is out of adjustment, rendering the engine inoperable... (prob not the issue as they usually prevent the engine from turning over at all, but I thought it was worth mentioning)

5. Check your key switch... make sure all of the connections are tight.

I am sure its something pretty simple... 90% of the time it is!

Woodsy

bigdog · 10-23-2008, 08:22 PM

Hi Folks,

Thought I'd report back on my results.....

I never got to check for 'spark'...nobody around to assist.....

Anyway, I decided to take Woodsy's last suggestions....

I noticed the iginition swich was sticking when I turned the key, so I sprayed a little WD40 on key an into switch.

I then disconnected the 3 wires that connect to the back of the switch. I suspect one is POS the other Ground, not sure about the third but looks like it goes to the alarm control (Mercruiser). Cleaned off terminals then put wire connections back on.

Checked the 'Lanyard' swithc, moved up and down a few times, seemed OK.

Then 'wiggled' throttle handle to make sure it was in neutral.

I then cranked engine over, and VRRRRRRRRRRRROM engine started,
I ran it for a few minutes, then shut off. I then started again without any issues.

Know I don't know what the actual problem might have been ? Could have been sticking ignition switch on dash? Could have been 'Lanyard' switch not closing properly, or could have been throttle not exactly in in neutral ?
Could have been Sun Spot flareups for all I know !

I guess the expression 'KISS' applies here, think basics. Lessons learned !

Anyway, problem solved. Whew ! Going to winterize and put boat to bed for the winter this weekend.

Can't thank everyone enough for all their input, much appreciated !

Bigdog

robmac · 10-24-2008, 07:33 AM

Glad it all worked out for you without expensive repair cost. Funny how a little bit of corrosion can muck up the works. On your ignition contacts I'd recommend a little dielectric grease to prevent that corrosion from returning to quickly.

Audiofn · 10-27-2008, 06:47 AM

Three wires on the back of your ignition are

Power from the battery/motor

Ignition

Crank

10-09-2008, 08:00 PM	#1
bigdog Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Central MA-Gilford Posts: 1,411 Thanks: 308 Thanked 117 Times in 94 Posts	Engine will not start? Hi Folks, Having a problems starting my engine ? Engine cranks, plenty of battery power, but doesn't want to kick-over? It was started a few weeks ago. Almost seems like I'm not getting any spark ? There is an old way I know to check spark, and that is by pulling one of the ignition wires, and inserting the end of a screwdriver into the wire-boot, then placing screwdriver about 1/2 inch away from the engine block, and having someone crank the engine. Obviously, you want to use an insulated screwdriver. It should spark across the block to the screwdriver. If it doesn't then I would check all ignit. wires for same result. If they all fail, I would suspect a bad coil ? My neighbor, a NASCAR junkie, and a motorhead, told me an easier but similiar way to check for 'spark'. Remove one of the ignition wires, remove the spark plug entirely from the block, then put the spark plug back into the ignition wire boot. He said if you crank the engine, you should hear a 'pop', and also see the plug arc. This seems a little bit easierand safer, than the 'screwdrive' method described above. If anyone has suggestions, it would be appreciated! Thanks

10-10-2008, 06:43 AM	#3
NonVoting Taxpayer Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 98 Thanks: 3 Thanked 24 Times in 10 Posts	The Gas? If you have gas with ethanol that could be your problem. The gas doesn't have much of a shelf life. Spray starter fluid in the carborator and see if you get any reaction. If you do then you have a spark. Had a similar problem and changing the gas did the trick.

10-10-2008, 05:17 PM	#7
Cal Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Pitman , NJ Posts: 627 Thanks: 40 Thanked 21 Times in 12 Posts	Safety lanyard clip laying on the floor and not clipped into position cost me an ignition module and distributor pickup before I noticed it was missing Ok so now I have spares , hows yours? __________________ Paddle faster , I think I here banjos

10-10-2008, 08:23 PM	#8
bigdog Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Central MA-Gilford Posts: 1,411 Thanks: 308 Thanked 117 Times in 94 Posts	Engine will not start? Hi again... Engine is 4.3LX Mercruiser. Boat is out of water when I attemmpted to start. Tried to spray starting fluid directly into the carb but did not seem to affect anything. Gas is fairly full but is leftover from this past season, as I wasn't able to do much boating this year. Will check all wires to starter motor,and coil, then report back to Forum. Thanks, Bigdog

10-11-2008, 08:59 AM	#9
SIKSUKR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,075 Thanks: 215 Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts	I would put fuel stabilizer in the tank and run it for a bit when you get it started. __________________ SIKSUKR Last edited by SIKSUKR; 10-16-2008 at 09:35 AM.

10-10-2008, 07:19 AM	#4
Audiofn Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Bedford, MA/Naples, ME Posts: 162 Thanks: 3 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	I do not know what kind of engine you have but there is a wire that often comes off your starter that boosts voltage to your coil while you are cranking. If this wire falls off it will be very hard to start the engine. For a few bucks you can go to an auto parts store and buy a spark tester that you take off the wire from your plug and put this inline between the wire and plug. This way you are not cranking your engine with out the plug in there (not that that is a bad thing). The nice thing about that is that if you are having a high RPM studder it can make it much easier to find the problem.

10-10-2008, 09:57 AM	#5
NightWing Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 410 Thanks: 4 Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts	You didn't mention what type of engine you have but if it is an inboard or I/O, I would be extremely careful trying to test for an open spark in area that has the potential for accumulation of gas fumes.

10-15-2008, 08:28 AM	#10
Grady223 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: New Hope, PA & Barndoor Island Posts: 464 Thanks: 93 Thanked 24 Times in 18 Posts	I had the same problem with the same engine - turned out to be a bad fuel pump.

10-15-2008, 09:44 AM	#11
robmac Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Nashua,Meredith Posts: 951 Thanks: 213 Thanked 106 Times in 81 Posts	Sounds electronic,he tried starting fluid which did nothing so that rules out fuel and or pump for a crank no start. Your going to have to start with the basics,start testing for spark at the plug and work back to source. This method has been done for years and saves money on throwing darts( Dollars) at the problem.

10-15-2008, 09:58 AM	#12
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,949 Thanks: 80 Thanked 969 Times in 432 Posts	RobMac is right.. Start with the basics! You need fuel, air & spark to get motor to run. If you crank it over on either and the motor doesnt even sputter... its a spark issue! Now the fun part.... tracing the problem! Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

10-15-2008, 11:11 AM	#13
chipj29 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bow Posts: 1,874 Thanks: 521 Thanked 308 Times in 162 Posts	If you haven't already done so, I would start with new spark plugs if it were me... __________________ Getting ready for winter!

10-16-2008, 07:11 AM	#15
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,949 Thanks: 80 Thanked 969 Times in 432 Posts	Dave.. Your right LOL! I just "assumed" he had compression! LOL! __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

10-16-2008, 02:23 PM	#18
Rockdaddy Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 24 Thanks: 2 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	I've used this web site to help me trouble shoot a no spark condition on my boat. http://www.marinemechanic.com/site/page19.html Hope it helps

10-16-2008, 06:35 PM	#19
macshpman Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Southern NH Posts: 32 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Exhaust valves are always smaller in diameter then the intake valve. 1.940" intake valve and 1.500" exhaust diameter in that engine __________________ Just remember Your DEAD alot longer then your ALIVE! Enjoy every DAY

10-16-2008, 09:21 PM	#20
eye spy Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	If you have boat out of water call All Boat Repair in Belmont 267-7223. See if you can take it over to him for repair, had same problem with my Glastron 4.3 this summer and was fix for less than 100.00. give him a try.

10-19-2008, 07:56 PM	#21
bigdog Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Central MA-Gilford Posts: 1,411 Thanks: 308 Thanked 117 Times in 94 Posts	Engine will not start? Hi Folks, Haven't been able to work on engine for last 2 weeks. Back on track! First thing I'll do is check for spark at plug. If I get spark, will then check fuel supply. If my fuel pump (Electric),is not pumping fuel, do you think I could perform a quick check to confirm by disconnecting fuel line to Carb, and placing a small container under fuel line (to catch any fuel), and have a partner crank engine quickly once, to check that fuel is pumping to Carb? Or would this be too dangerous? Sounds a little like a 'Rube Goldberg' plan, but I don't what to go 'KA-BOOM' in the process ! All I want to do is confirm that I am pumping fuel. Would you know of another way to test, if the fuel pump is working? Again, first thing I'll do is check for spark before proceeding any further. Thanks, Bigdog

10-19-2008, 08:20 PM	#22
bigdog Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Central MA-Gilford Posts: 1,411 Thanks: 308 Thanked 117 Times in 94 Posts	Engine will not start Back again..... Forgot to mention some of the symtoms..... I can seem to crank the engine all day but seems like it doesn't even try to start? I pump my throttle handle a 5-6 times first, but nothing. What bothers me is that I don't even smell any gas, even after continued starting and pumping> I would think I would smell gas, especially if I flooded the engine after repeated attemps to start? Also, 'Cal' mentioned, the 'Safety lanyard clip'. My lanyard is not attached, to the switch other then when I'm on water. This safety 'lever-switch '(Start/Stop), is located just beneath the throttle handle. I have checked this, and it is in the 'start' position. Could there be a problem with this switch inside? If this switch is not working propperly, you'd never start the engine. You could crank all day with no effect. This Safety Lanyard switch, may also control or cutout the fuel supply, as well as the electrical output to the 'starter motor, coil, Distributor', etc. Thoughts?

10-20-2008, 12:59 PM	#23
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,949 Thanks: 80 Thanked 969 Times in 432 Posts	KISS.... Keep it simple! There is no fuel cutoff... its all done by killing the spark. Being able to smell gasoline in a boat is NEVER a good thing! Make sure your hatch is up and your bilge blower is on when performing ALL tests! Before you go off on a tangent... 1. Check for SPARK! You can crank all day but if there is no spark there will be NO ignition. If no spark then you gotta start tracing the problem back. 2. If there is spark, then check for fuel... the easiest way to do this is with a can of starting fluid... if the engine tries to start on the starting fluid then the problem is fuel related.... 3. Check your safety lanyard again... wiggle the switch and try to start in both positions... 4. If you have no spark, wiggle your throttle in and out of gear... check to see that your outdrive is indeed in neutral! (you should be able to spin your propeller by hand in BOTH directions! Its entirely possible that your neutral safety switch has failed or is out of adjustment, rendering the engine inoperable... (prob not the issue as they usually prevent the engine from turning over at all, but I thought it was worth mentioning) 5. Check your key switch... make sure all of the connections are tight. I am sure its something pretty simple... 90% of the time it is! Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

10-23-2008, 08:22 PM	#24
bigdog Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Central MA-Gilford Posts: 1,411 Thanks: 308 Thanked 117 Times in 94 Posts	Engine won't start - SOLVED! Hi Folks, Thought I'd report back on my results..... I never got to check for 'spark'...nobody around to assist..... Anyway, I decided to take Woodsy's last suggestions.... I noticed the iginition swich was sticking when I turned the key, so I sprayed a little WD40 on key an into switch. I then disconnected the 3 wires that connect to the back of the switch. I suspect one is POS the other Ground, not sure about the third but looks like it goes to the alarm control (Mercruiser). Cleaned off terminals then put wire connections back on. Checked the 'Lanyard' swithc, moved up and down a few times, seemed OK. Then 'wiggled' throttle handle to make sure it was in neutral. I then cranked engine over, and VRRRRRRRRRRRROM engine started, I ran it for a few minutes, then shut off. I then started again without any issues. Know I don't know what the actual problem might have been ? Could have been sticking ignition switch on dash? Could have been 'Lanyard' switch not closing properly, or could have been throttle not exactly in in neutral ? Could have been Sun Spot flareups for all I know ! I guess the expression 'KISS' applies here, think basics. Lessons learned ! Anyway, problem solved. Whew ! Going to winterize and put boat to bed for the winter this weekend. Can't thank everyone enough for all their input, much appreciated ! Bigdog

10-24-2008, 07:33 AM	#25
robmac Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Nashua,Meredith Posts: 951 Thanks: 213 Thanked 106 Times in 81 Posts	Glad it all worked out for you without expensive repair cost. Funny how a little bit of corrosion can muck up the works. On your ignition contacts I'd recommend a little dielectric grease to prevent that corrosion from returning to quickly.

10-27-2008, 06:47 AM	#26
Audiofn Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Bedford, MA/Naples, ME Posts: 162 Thanks: 3 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Three wires on the back of your ignition are Power from the battery/motor Ignition Crank