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Old 02-23-2007, 06:28 PM   #1
Island Girl
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Unhappy Plowing the Lake

Please do not plow roads across the lake. It makes very hazardous conditions for those on snowmobiles and ATVs. At night the banks that you create may not be visible... and on those days in which the snow all looks the same, these banks are impossible to see and could cause a serious accident. It is very difficult in some cases to cross over the banks.. If it rains on them, they become an impassible brick wall for the rest of the season.

I am also concerned that the piling up on snow on the ice could cause the ice to crack and create slushy areas... see link..

Anyone else want to weigh in on this???

IG
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Old 02-23-2007, 08:11 PM   #2
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Island Girl:

I understand your concern but think you are up the creek without a paddle on this issue. There is no way that you are ever going to control this. My advice is simple, slow down so you can see what is ahead of you. Good luck.
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Old 02-24-2007, 05:16 AM   #3
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Island Girl
Please do not plow roads across the lake...Anyone else want to weigh in on this???
I don't think "plowing" is the problem: my recollection (from the late Ralph Horn) is that roads have been plowed across Lake Winnipesaukee for 70 years—or more!
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Old 02-24-2007, 08:51 AM   #4
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Default It is what it is

Great link on Slush IG. We usually see it in March on the lake, especially if we get the wet/heavy snow. As the article says, avoid it, but if you find yourself in it - keep your speed up, above 50 if possible and stay on other people's tracks.

I'm going to have to go with SecondCurve on the issue of plowing. Without plowing the lake, the communities of trucks and trailers would be limited to where they could go - and there is no reason to limit their recreation. As a snowmobiler, I dislike the plow piles. I've had to go 1/2 mile out of my way to get around a big one coming out Swissvale. As IG says, its a hazzard if you aren't careful, especially at night. It would be nice if the plowers would cut a break line every hundred yards or so to let the sleds through. As for slush, I can see where the plow piles would cause slush, but where they have plowed, it is less insulated and that would allow for stronger ice. Here at the end of February, the lake is as safe as its going to be. March demands more caution as the lake starts working on an April ice-out.
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Old 02-27-2007, 08:12 PM   #5
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Default Plowing

I also dislike the plowing of the lake.. Yes they used to plow roads to log the islands etc ..But now we have every guy wanting to plow a road out to his bobhouse.
Why not snowshoe or cc ski or even get a snowmobile.
Are they so out of shape and need so much gear that they must drive a 3/4 ton pickup out to the bobhouse ?
ITS A HAZARD !
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Old 02-28-2007, 06:19 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acres per Second
I don't think "plowing" is the problem: my recollection (from the late Ralph Horn) is that roads have been plowed across Lake Winnipesaukee for 70 years—or more!
So your point is that we shouldn't ban something that's been done on the lake for many years just because it bothers some people and might cause a hazard?

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Old 02-28-2007, 06:48 PM   #7
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JRC:

Are you really serious? We are speaking about Live Free or Die NH. Stop plowing? This makes no sense to me. The answer is to take personal responsibility and slow down, and stay off the lake when it isn't safe.
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Old 02-28-2007, 09:56 PM   #8
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Default Just be careful

The plowed roads are no more dangerous than the pressure ridges.

It is especially treacherous when the wind is blowing snow 2-3 feet off of the ice. Obstacles are cloaked by the blowing snow and come upon you quick if you are moving too fast.

Stay safe
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Old 03-01-2007, 08:36 AM   #9
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Default Plowing the Lake

A few years ago I witnessed a snowmbiler get injured after running across an ice skating rink that was plowed 50 yards off shore. After running across the pile of snow along the edge, the machine went slightly sideways across the ice when it hit the other ridge of snow and flipped. The machine was not travelling at excessive speed, and the snow pile was not that high. As a result, the rink was not very visible from the snowbiler's perspective and contributed to the accident.

I believe it would be helpful that anytime something unnatural affects the lake, such as running a circulator around a dock, some type of warning should be visible. A branch or stick with reflective tape spaced along a plowed road on the ice or a skating rink may help prevent serious injuries in the future.

We are all in this together, and need to consider how our actions may impact others.
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Old 03-01-2007, 08:56 AM   #10
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Default Plowing

I would never go as far as to enact a law against it, that's ridiculous.. Just hope some of the plowers read this thread and realize what they are doing.. An unmarked road out in the middle of a normally flat area is an unnecessary and DANGEROUS. We wait all year foe a couple weeks of flat frozen lake and its all plowed up the next day. In my cove I've got some yahoo that's plowed circles and random patterns all over the cove.. i think he was just having fun with his plow. Id really like to meet this guy and explain how very annoying this is to people
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Old 03-01-2007, 09:18 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by secondcurve
JRC:

Are you really serious? We are speaking about Live Free or Die NH. Stop plowing? This makes no sense to me. The answer is to take personal responsibility and slow down, and stay off the lake when it isn't safe.
Secondcurve, we agree 100% on this.

I was trying to compare APS position on plowing versus his position on fast boats. On plowing he dismisses Island Girls safety concerns, on the basis that the plowing tradition has been going on for years. On fast boats, he doesn't make the same deference to the Winnipesaukee tradition of fast boats. The picture is evidence of the tradition of fast boats.
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Old 03-01-2007, 10:16 AM   #12
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Default Don't plow the lake????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayhunt
I also dislike the plowing of the lake.. Why not snowshoe or cc ski or even get a snowmobile. Are they so out of shape and need so much gear that they must drive a 3/4 ton pickup out to the bobhouse ?
ITS A HAZARD !
I don't believe so. It is a sport to some people, it's a funny sport but why not stop snowmobiling as they may hit a cross country skier. If one wants to stop plowing we should start with activities such as plowing runways.
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Old 03-01-2007, 05:07 PM   #13
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RLW
I don't believe so. It is a sport to some people, it's a funny sport but why not stop snowmobiling as they may hit a cross country skier. If one wants to stop plowing we should start with activities such as plowing runways.
The problem is they cant be seen.. if your going to plow a road on state property, then you should be required to put sticks in the bank every 50 feet or so ..
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Old 03-01-2007, 07:39 PM   #14
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JRC:

Thanks for the clarification. I realize people who want to put limitations on plowing the lake mean well, but they just don't understand it is not practical.
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Old 03-02-2007, 07:32 AM   #15
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Exclamation New Jersey to the Rescue!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrc
"...Secondcurve, we agree 100% on this..."
As I do—although "staying off the lake" has an implication to summertime kayaking with which I don't agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrc
"...On plowing he dismisses Island Girls safety concerns, on the basis that the plowing tradition has been going on for years. On fast boats, he doesn't make the same deference to the Winnipesaukee tradition of fast boats. The picture is evidence of the tradition of fast boats...."
Traditional Plowing:

The plowing done 70+ years ago involved moving timber, houses, block-ice, bob houses, barns, provisions, cars, dairy products, sleighs, horses and oxen across the lake to other towns. Years ago, my own shoreline was bolstered with boulders delivered across the ice by dumptruck. In the old Winnipesaukee tradition, there never was a plowing hazard to snowmobiles because there weren't any snowmobiles!

Traditional boats:

Fiberglass is impact-resistant, and that's why it is used for bumper-car construction. Boats made of wood are strong and lightweight, but impact resistance is not among wood's strengths. To put it another way, the builder of a boat constructed of mahogany would take the same operating precautions as the builder of a snowmobile constructed from mahogany!

I can't recall any hit-and-run incidents involving wood boats.

Here's a suggestion:

A page could be taken from our legislator-friends in New Jersey:

Our LFOD state could mandate that large orange flags be planted every 17 feet on every mound of plowed-up snow, pressure ridges, drifted-up snow, bob houses, pickup trucks, and parked snowmobiles! (Or....snowmobile operators could just maintain a proper watch.)

Until there are 70-mph snowmobiles weighing 4˝-tons, snowmobiles present a monster of their own making.
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Old 03-02-2007, 08:50 AM   #16
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Any sport, especially winter sports have their risks, It is the responsibility of the operator to be aware of what hazzards are in his/her line of travel and surrounding them. On a sunny day, a good set of polarized glasses or shield will help show you the drifts, Ice heaves, etc on the lake. When you are in doubt of what lies ahead...slow down. This will give you reaction time if you hit a hazzard. Play safe!
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Old 03-02-2007, 09:27 AM   #17
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Default Ammended request

I appreciate everyone's comments. My concern is the disregard that anyone group has for the rest... I therefore ammend my request... when plowing the lake it I agree with Lakegeezer's comment about making a break in the birm that is created everyonce in a while so others including cross country skiiers, walkers, snowmobiles, ATV's etc can get through.

My original comment was driven by two events... a plowed trail a couple of years ago to Rattlesnake that had a birm so high getting over it was treacherous at any speed and there were not breaks... the other was the very recent path plowed through Minge Cove; that the plower left a hugh pile of snow in the middle of the channel where there is a lot of traffic... it appeared that the pile was so heavy... and not that far from a circulator that a hole of slush and a mess was created...


So the ammended request is ... do unto others!!

Thanks all

(It's snowing!!!!)

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Old 03-02-2007, 09:48 AM   #18
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Island Girl:

The real question I have is how much longer will the lake be safe with a heavy wet snow falling. My simple rule thumb is to stay off the ice after March 15th. I realize that can be a bit conservative, but that is my approach. What is the latest you have visted your island home over the ice?
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Old 03-02-2007, 10:05 AM   #19
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Default Special Access

I will be able to get there through ice out with wonderful friends with an airboat... watching the ice melt... and ice out from the island is such an incredible experience...

Next weekend may be the end of snowmobiling this season for me..

We shall see.
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Old 03-02-2007, 01:48 PM   #20
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Default Lake Uses

The lake has been used for many activities from many,many years. How about the herds of live stock that were driven across the lake in olden times? Some of the island houses were owned by the mills at Lakeport and the herds were driven across the lake from the east shore. Island homes were shepherd’s and driver’s huts. Anyone have picture of these? It goes with the ice cutting, logging, hauling material, etc.
The “sport” of snowmobiling is a recent event.
There should be room for everyone out there. Use respect and caution.
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Old 03-02-2007, 03:42 PM   #21
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Default Plowing

I did not know snowmobiling was a "sport" or "new". Ive been riding since 72 and can just never remember as many snow banks as I see this year. Seems like every bobhouse has its own road..lots of four wheelers now too .. Lets face it times and traditions change. Ive never left anyone a 6 foot high bank or an open frozen hole with my snowmobile. Just a wave and a puff of blue smoke
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Old 03-02-2007, 10:09 PM   #22
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Default Did she say ICE -OUT !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Island Girl
I will be able to get there through ice out with wonderful friends with an airboat... watching the ice melt... and ice out from the island is such an incredible experience...

Next weekend may be the end of snowmobiling this season for me..

We shall see.
Oh my God I can't wait! It looks like Winter today, but it won't be long.


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Old 03-03-2007, 05:45 PM   #23
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Is it my imagination or did somebody just plow a road on the ice right up to Snake Eyes ?
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Old 03-03-2007, 06:56 PM   #24
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Default Ice Skating Rink

Looks like IG has a nice ice skating rink.
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Old 03-03-2007, 10:50 PM   #25
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Default I don't think she'll see it that way

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunset Bob
Looks like IG has a nice ice skating rink.
Boy, I certainly hope that's not a response to IG's original request of not plowing the Lake. If it is, that's WAY over the line!

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Old 03-03-2007, 11:08 PM   #26
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Default Not me

I was just commenting that it looks like a pretty good skating rink.I agree that plowing there is over the top.
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Old 03-04-2007, 09:51 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunset Bob
I was just commenting that it looks like a pretty good skating rink.I agree that plowing there is over the top.
I didn't mean you SB, I meant that if someone intentionally plowed a road to IG's camera location just to make an "in your face" statement implying that her opinion of plowed roads on the lake is wrong, then I, for one, have a problem with that. Judging from the lack of responses so far, maybe I'm wrong.

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Old 03-04-2007, 10:30 AM   #28
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Default Way over the top!

BT,

You are 100% correct!

This was no accident. There is no need for plowing in that area. This appears to be an intended act meant to go "one up" on IG.

We are so lucky in this country to have so much personal freedom. However, in this case, someone's (the person who plowed) freedom of speech clearly has a negative impact on another person's freedom. Although the plowing may not be against the law, in this case it appears to be clearly wrong, in my opinion.

IG thanks for all you do to make this forum and the lake in general a great place to be. Please do not allow this insensitive act to change you one bit.

Best regards,

R2B

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Old 03-04-2007, 11:13 AM   #29
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Captain Bonehead owns a plow............
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Old 03-04-2007, 12:12 PM   #30
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Default Not

I believe the plowing was done by my neighbor to take delivery of some items for his camp... He did that when he first built the house...

I could be wrong.. but know that he did it earlier in the week for that purpose... so probably did it again. I don't particularly like it... maybe he put some holes in the birms this time.

Now that my cover is completely blown... get out there and have your picture taken in front of Snake Eyes.. if you see someone out there, please copy the picture and send it to me... I will post them all as a slide show!!!!
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Old 03-04-2007, 06:45 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Island Girl
Now that my cover is completely blown...
There are certain members (regulars) here that go out of their way not to "blow peoples' cover" including me, (which is why I PM you and others) but I think it is just too coincidental to not be a statement of some kind. JMO.

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Old 03-05-2007, 09:36 AM   #32
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Default Not you, Blue Thunder

I was referring to my neighbor putting such a large telltale sign in front of my webcam.... not you, Blue Thunder... sorry if that was not clear.

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Old 03-05-2007, 12:49 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Island Girl
I was referring to my neighbor putting such a large telltale sign in front of my webcam.... not you, Blue Thunder... sorry if that was not clear.

IG
Not a problem, it was clear to me!

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Old 03-05-2007, 03:59 PM   #34
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Default This Just In...

It would seem that this news article validates "Island Girl's" concern. Maybe the snowmobiler should not have been going so fast that he could not avoid the accident and fly 100ft through the air, however there is an obvious danger with hitting snow drifts and plow birms on a snowmobile.

Marblehead man hurt in snowmobile crash

Salem News
March 5, 2007

TUFTONBORO, N.H. (AP) - A Massachusetts snowmobiler landed in the hospital after a crash early yesterday that sent him flying more than 100 feet through the air over frozen Lake Winnipesaukee.

Richard Drew, 26, of Marblehead, was speeding across the lake around 2:30 a.m., when he hit a snowdrift and launched himself into the air, said Fish and Game Officer Mark Hensel. Drew landed 100 feet away, injuring his hip and suffering possible internal injuries. Drew was alone on the snowmobile.


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Old 03-05-2007, 04:25 PM   #35
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Seems a small detail was left out of the article, alcohol is suspected in the accident.
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Old 03-05-2007, 05:11 PM   #36
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Default Obstacle's on the lake....

and then there's that darn airstrip on Alton Bay.

and all those nasty dock bubblers opening up large spots of water.

and if mother nature would stop putting in pressure ridges.....
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Old 03-05-2007, 09:12 PM   #37
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrc
So your point is that we shouldn't ban something that's been done on the lake for many years just because it bothers some people and might cause a hazard?
And your point would be to stop doing something that's been done for 70 years because it is an inconvenience to some who like to drive fast on the snow machines at night when visibility is low? C'mon.

The plowed roads are valuable travel ways for folks getting out to islands and doing work on the camps. Snowmobiling is a recreational sport, let's just keep things in perspective.
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Old 03-05-2007, 09:48 PM   #38
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Wink Dang!

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Worm
Richard Drew, 26, of Marblehead, was speeding across the lake around 2:30 a.m., when he hit a snowdrift and launched himself into the air
Dern snowdrifts!!!!!
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Old 03-05-2007, 10:47 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrc
So your point is that.....
You may have missed my follow-up post. The first post was sarcasm, so I'm pretty sure we agree on this.

I won't go into again, because I really should have brought it up in a speed limit thread.
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Old 03-11-2007, 01:08 PM   #40
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Where there's smoke, there's fire...

Hope that is fog and not smoke.

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Old 03-11-2007, 10:38 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Island Girl
Now that my cover is completely blown... get out there and have your picture taken in front of Snake Eyes.. if you see someone out there, please copy the picture and send it to me... I will post them all as a slide show!!!!
Could this be the Babes on Sleds putting on a show for the WeirsCAM? I saw lots of snowmobile activity on the WeirsCAM today.
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Old 03-13-2007, 03:11 PM   #42
Rattlesnake Nigel
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Default Smoke

Its was smoke, there was a large 'controlled' fire, and a backhoe working hard clearing stuff....
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