Go Back   Winnipesaukee Forum > Winnipesaukee Forums > General Discussion
Home Forums Gallery Webcams Blogs YouTube Channel Classifieds Calendar Register FAQDonate Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-02-2017, 05:20 PM   #1
Descant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Merrimack and Welch Island
Posts: 3,986
Thanks: 1,200
Thanked 1,492 Times in 970 Posts
Default Taxing temporary seasonal docks

Last year Rep. Mullen (r-Middleton) chaired a study on temporary seasonal docks (HB195). They learned that some towns (assessing companies) treat TSD as real property and tax it. Others apparently do not. A temporary seasonal dock is fully portable. A dock attached to the shore in any way (winch up for example) is permanent and requires a permit from DES. A TSD must be wholly removed at least five months of the year. I can pick it up, put it (in pieces) on the roof of my car and drive it off. To me, that is personal property. In any event, the assessors from various towns sometimes make a TSD taxable, in others, a TSD is not assessed.
Questions:
1. Do you have a TSD?
2. Is it listed on your tax card as a taxable feature?
3. What town?

No horse in this race for me personally. My dock/breakwater is permanent and taxed by Gilford.
Descant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2017, 09:42 PM   #2
MAXUM
Senior Member
 
MAXUM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kuna ID
Posts: 2,755
Thanks: 246
Thanked 1,942 Times in 802 Posts
Default

Meredith whacks me for my seasonal dock. What's interesting about that is looking at the tax assessments of my neighbors some have their seasonal docks listed and some do not.

I don't understand why a crank up would not be also considered seasonal as well. They to are removed during the winter time, the method of removal to me seems irrelevant.
MAXUM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 07:15 AM   #3
codeman671
Senior Member
 
codeman671's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,333
Thanks: 204
Thanked 758 Times in 442 Posts
Default

Gilford has our 17 year old rusty 8x40 steel crank up with rotted cedar decking assessed at $15,380.... I could replace it with a brand new one for less than that.
codeman671 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 09:40 AM   #4
ishoot308
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Gilford, NH / Welch Island
Posts: 5,891
Thanks: 2,274
Thanked 4,904 Times in 1,897 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by codeman671 View Post
Gilford has our 17 year old rusty 8x40 steel crank up with rotted cedar decking assessed at $15,380.... I could replace it with a brand new one for less than that.
Yes but try to buy a deeded one for that price! ����
__________________
It's Always Sunny On Welch Island!!
ishoot308 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 04:16 PM   #5
Descant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Merrimack and Welch Island
Posts: 3,986
Thanks: 1,200
Thanked 1,492 Times in 970 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAXUM View Post
Meredith whacks me for my seasonal dock. What's interesting about that is looking at the tax assessments of my neighbors some have their seasonal docks listed and some do not.

I don't understand why a crank up would not be also considered seasonal as well. They to are removed during the winter time, the method of removal to me seems irrelevant.
In order to do crank up, you have to have a permanent base on shore. That's a "structure" that requires a permit from DES. That's where the line got drawn for "temporary".
If you and your neighbors all meet the definition of TSD, you should be able to get an abatement. A lot of people hesitate on abatements because they don't want to be responsible for their neighbors having their taxes raised. Nobody knows if this really happens.

Specific examples would be helpful. The committee chair's (Rep. Christensen) email is c.christensen@leg.state.nh.us. He'll take info to the Assessing Standards Board.

Last edited by Descant; 12-03-2017 at 04:30 PM. Reason: added contact info
Descant is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 12-04-2017, 07:27 AM   #6
TiltonBB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Gilford, NH and Florida
Posts: 2,871
Thanks: 627
Thanked 2,135 Times in 889 Posts
Default Abatement

If you plan to file for an abatement make sure that you look carefully at your tax card and confirm that the rest of the information on it is accurate.

About 10 years ago I filed for an abatement with the contention that my land was worth less than what they had it assessed for. I gave them 4 examples from my street and they agreed to reduce the assessed land value. However, the tax card did not list one of the docks (which was legal and permitted) and when they added that and made a couple of other adjustments the net result was a very minor decrease.

So, if they make a site visit they will look at everything and there is some potential that the result could work against you.
TiltonBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2017, 09:28 AM   #7
Onshore
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 500
Thanks: 12
Thanked 400 Times in 143 Posts
Default

Reps Mullen and Christensen are investing significant time and effort in a sincere attempt to learn about at docking structures, the way they impact the public trust, and permitting. I would like to encourage people to contribute to the efforts of Rep. Mullen and Rep. Christensen.

There does seem to be some continued confusion about docks and taxes. Having a concrete pad does not make a dock permanent, at least not as defined by RSA 482-A and DES rules. How the towns decide to tax structures is likely based on their own determinations; not ours. Whether or not the Department decides structures can be approved is based on the structure's impact on the public trust and the environment not on how it may be taxed locally.
Onshore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2017, 04:47 PM   #8
Orion
Senior Member
 
Orion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cow Island
Posts: 914
Thanks: 602
Thanked 193 Times in 91 Posts
Default fairness

Island residents should not be taxed for docks any more than all other residents in the state are taxed for driveways. I'm thinking they are not.
Orion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2017, 05:27 PM   #9
upthesaukee
Senior Member
 
upthesaukee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Alton Bay
Posts: 5,543
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 2,392
Thanked 1,918 Times in 1,061 Posts
Default

Actually, here is a copy from the tax records for my property in Alton.

PAV1 Paving Sml 1 UNITS $1,700 1

We are taxed for our driveways. 😞

Dave





Sent from my SM-T580 using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
__________________
I Live Here... I am always UPTHESAUKEE !!!!
upthesaukee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2017, 10:58 AM   #10
DRH
Senior Member
 
DRH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Meredith
Posts: 1,666
Thanks: 1,169
Thanked 655 Times in 173 Posts
Default Yep, Alton Taxes Driveways

Quote:
Originally Posted by upthesaukee View Post
Actually, here is a copy from the tax records for my property in Alton.

PAV1 Paving Sml 1 UNITS $1,700 1

We are taxed for our driveways. 😞

Dave
Same here, Dave, except our tax card says:

PAV1 Paving Sml 1 UNITS $2,000

How come you get a discount?
__________________
DRH
DRH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2017, 03:01 PM   #11
upthesaukee
Senior Member
 
upthesaukee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Alton Bay
Posts: 5,543
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 2,392
Thanked 1,918 Times in 1,061 Posts
Default

If I could pave my driveway for $1700, I would.
Dave

Sent from my SM-G930V using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
__________________
I Live Here... I am always UPTHESAUKEE !!!!
upthesaukee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2017, 04:21 PM   #12
DickR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Moultonborough
Posts: 734
Thanks: 4
Thanked 254 Times in 166 Posts
Default

Here are my non-binding thoughts. Computerization of property assessing information these days permits a great deal of detailed information to be used for automated generation of assessments. I imagine one huge intent is to create a standard, defensible method for determining a property's valuation for taxation, so as to eliminate as much as possible using an assessor's opinion of what a property would fetch if sold. Thus when an assessment is challenged, accuracy of the individual bits of information collectively used is really all that can be challenged.

Something that is attached to the property and not likely to be taken with the owner when the property sells thus might be just another "feature" included for assessing purposes. Something on wheels or skids (eg. ice fishing shack), arguably is movable and likely to be taken with the owner would not be part of the property for assessing purposes.

Thus a dock might well be considered part of the property, highly unlikely to be taken with the owner, even if it could be taken, physically, much as could the front door if removed from its hinges. On that basis, a dock arguably is part of the property, and thus part of a taxation basis that is standard, applies-the-same-to-all, and a really nice dock arguably adds more value to the property than does one that might collapse under its own weight. Similarly, you could argue that a paved driveway would not be removed when the owner sells and adds more to the value of the property than does a gravel driveway or none at all.

But there ought to be acceptable standards for assessing, state-wide, so everyone is on the same basis.
DickR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2017, 05:55 PM   #13
MAXUM
Senior Member
 
MAXUM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kuna ID
Posts: 2,755
Thanks: 246
Thanked 1,942 Times in 802 Posts
Default

^^ what DickR said ^^

I did just check the updated assessments and it seems that far as I could go everyone with a dock now has it on their assessment - so seems that was normalized across the board which far as I'm concerned is at least fair in the sense that if you got one it's on your assessment. Values of course vary, but I think overall the values placed on these by the town is also fair if they are to factor into the equation.

It's hard to argue these should not be taxed to some degree as they are a feature of the property so long as the values that are placed on them are in line with what they really are.
MAXUM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2017, 09:28 PM   #14
Descant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Merrimack and Welch Island
Posts: 3,986
Thanks: 1,200
Thanked 1,492 Times in 970 Posts
Default

The question is:
What town? If you checked your neighbors on Bear Island, thank you. We are looking for difference from one town to another, not next door neighbors. So, areyou all taxed in Meredith? Fine.
Are there no taxes in Northwood? Alton? Barnstead? Windham?
I know that goes beyond Lakes Region, but were trying to see who is taxed and who is not.
Thanks.
Descant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2017, 09:33 PM   #15
FlyingScot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Tuftonboro and Sudbury, MA
Posts: 2,208
Thanks: 1,106
Thanked 934 Times in 576 Posts
Default

Dick, I'm with you.

Another important point is that assessments are only significant relative to our neighbors. The town decides its revenue needs then looks at the total assessments, then sets the tax rate to meet its needs. If the town is "charging" you $1700 for your driveway or dock or sunroom, then it is simultaneously reducing the tax burden on your neighbors who do not have taxable docks, driveways or sunrooms.
FlyingScot is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.

This page was generated in 0.20831 seconds