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#101 |
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Welch-Time,
Thank you for your kind words. I speak the truth and I have pictures to prove what I say is true along with plenty of neighbors to corroborate it. Sorry that the truth seems to be upsetting you DEJ. |
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#102 |
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The truth is your opinion, I have a different opinion. Some here disagree with you. As stated, your attorney, if you have one is probably shaking his head saying STOP. The Corrs, since they are not posting here or anywhere else obviously are getting good advice from their attorney. Again good luck Lakegirl24, I suspect you will need it based on your posts here.
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#103 | |
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So it snowed enough in late June to cause the building to collapse, and than in early July the snow was completely gone. Can't wait to see the the expression on the judges face after they hear that.
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#104 |
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Rusty,
It was stated that it fell a whole year LATER in March of 2015. That’s why it was past the towns statute on rebuilding. Unfortunately, the time I had to pursue this was immediately after the variance meeting. So a judge will never see these. It’s TOTALLY in the hands of the state now, as it goes to the Supreme Court. I just hope they will do the right thing. This is strictly between the state and the Corrs. |
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#105 |
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Well, it looks like the doors were left open so the building would rack under the snow load (like she said) otherwise they'd be splinters. What bothers me is what type of owner would leave an eyesore like that for the neighbors to look at. Doesn't that tell you something? Wouldn't you think there's something funny going on here? Just curious. How long did the owners leave it like that before they tore it down?
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#106 |
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Welch Time,
Till April of 2016. So 21 months it was left like that. It fell even more over the 21 months of course. Also...it fell in the summer due to wind and neglect. NOT because of SNOW LOAD. |
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#107 |
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Even though it seems to be between the NH-DES and the neighbors in supreme court, you may want to look into hiring a lawyer familiar to the DES and to supreme court to be there to represent you.
Just being there at the hearing for you is money well spent. It shows both sides that you are there .... and that effects the outcome. What the heck .... I'll even mail you a check for 50-dollars to help pay the attorney fee .... out of my monthly Social Security check from the Gov .... and maybe there's others on-board here to do like-wise.
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#108 | |
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I would suggest reading some of the public court docuemnts, on this mater before deciding what the truth is. You are entitled to your opinion of course. But set what lakegirl said aside, and read the documentation, set the time frame of things aside and read the documentation... The permits applications to the town and to the state, mention replacing the boathouse in kind... Which means it should not be an inhabitable structure, which it most certainly is...With that kind of logic, I should just get a permit to rebuild my attached shed, and turn it into additional living space.... Many things fell through the cracks because of misleading information. The Septic System in that lot is sized to sustain the current season home. I have been able to tell since the beginning that this new structure, while also get hooked into that septic system if it is not already, so there will be the opportunity for additional load... But yet no septic design details of statement of already existing capacity are list on any of the permits, because they don't divulge the true intent of the project. Given the time frame that this structure when it, I find it very plausaable, that the owner, had intentions of deception... Do I believe they started out with this intention, no... I think somewhere along the way they realized some possibilities... and then got caught up in the excitement, and it snowballed from there.... The bottom line is they got to where they got, weather intentionally or not, and got caught. The issue they have is with a State Agency, who put a cease and desist order on them. Then they started taking their anger out on the person they believed caused there problem. And it has spiraled from there.
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#109 |
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Also, It looks like patio doors are installed on the front and side of the new house so I would expect a nice big wrap around deck to be installed in the future (after the dust settles). Probably the reason for the 10' setback.
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#110 |
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Yes, I agree that it would very likely happen.
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#111 |
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Assuming the owner loses the case and the "boathouse" needs to be removed, which appears likely based on the information in this thread, perhaps he can sell it and relocate it to a qualifying location, thereby mitigating his monetary losses. FLL probably can find a use for it.
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#112 |
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So the basic argument SCNH is going to hear is does can DES overrule the Wetlands board as a jurisdictional issue? It that is the case then it really doesn't have much to do with the parties involved other than outcome. DES wins, the building will be have to be revamped... although DES does have a long history of allowing mitigation... and the ruling might force that to come into play. If Wetlands wins... Lakegirl is not going to be happy. The rest of the issues are really just fluff.
Woodsy
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#113 | |
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The Corrs are fighting with the state, for the right to continue with their plans. It is the Corrs against DES, according to all the Documentation I have seen... And from the sounds of it DES is very clear, make the structure conform to the permits....
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#114 |
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https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...6cO/story.html
Reminds me this tale not too long ago. Will be interesting to see what unfolds but I currently take Lakegirl's side and story. As others suggested, I suspect Corr developed ambitious plans as things started to progress. It likely turned into one of those "I'm going to do this even though it's not right and I'll ask for forgiveness later when the damage is already done."
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#115 | |
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DES appealed this case to the Supreme Court arguing "The Wetlands Council decided to grant the appeal based on a contradictory interpretation of RSA 483-B:11." I believe this is what is being hotly debated, interesting items taken out of context: I. …..Such repair or replacement may alter the interior design or existing foundation, but shall result in no expansion of the existing footprint except as authorized by the department pursuant to paragraph II. II. When reviewing requests for the redevelopment of sites that contain nonconforming structures or any expansions of nonconforming structures the commissioner shall review proposals which are more nearly conforming than the existing structures, and may waive some of the standards specified in RSA 483-B:9, so long as there is at least the same degree of protection provided to the public waters. |
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#116 |
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LI...
I am kind of with Maxum here... from what I gathered from the article, DES was not happy with the Wetlands ruling, and appealed it to SCNH.... So DES is driving the bus so to speak.... most likely to settle who has the final say in cases such as this. I cannot find this case on SCNH docket yet. Woodsy
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#117 |
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From my understanding....YES DES and Wetlands are fighting and then what I have been told is that the Corrs have cross appealed it. I’m not EXACTLY sure what that means (to cross appeal) .... What are they cross appealing? DES wants it to be an accessory structure ( which by law are no higher than 12 ft). Wetlands wants it to be a non conforming structure. Not sure about the height for non conforming, but it should follow what was originally approved which was around 17 ft. I believe.
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#118 |
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It looks to me like the fact that there was once a boathouse on the property that fell down has nothing to do with what has been constructed.
They have built a totally unrelated structure, in a totally different location, with a totally different size and use, and those should be the factors that decide whether it can stay. Unless they can prevail and convince the court that it was built with all the proper permits and approvals I would still bet that it is coming down. Also, Shore Things of DES follows this website often and seems well aware of what is going on. I have worked with her on waterfront issues on my property and she is very competent and thorough. You can assume that she is on top of this. The state is not going to let something like this happen easily as it will set a precedent that others can use to push the envelope on their projects. In my opinion this is a blatant disregard for the regulations and an attempt to pull a fast one. Nice try, but I doubt it will succeed. |
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#119 |
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I believe Maxim is correct. While I agree and empathize with Lakegirl24, it appears that the SCNH case is to clear up the jurisdictional dispute between DES and Wetlands.
If DES wins the “boathouse” will have to be “adjusted” to meet their requirements. If Wetlands wins, either the Corrs get to complete it or other litigation follows. Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
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#120 |
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#121 | |
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As with (most?) everyone else, the initial thought/opinion was based on the LDS article which only shared one side of the story. Not exactly "fake news" by the paper but, definitely a derivative of such. |
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#122 |
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I am sitting here chuckling...
A dispute between DES and Wetlands, and who has jurisdiction and is correct... In and off itself is not going to land in the supreme court of NH. What has landed this in the supreme court is that the Corrs are defending their position, which is that they want to finish their project... In order for the Corrs to finish, the dead lock between the Wetlands and DES has to be resolved. Now depending on how you look at this you can state this case in a few different angles. But at the end of the Day, it is the Corrs against the State of New Hampshire.... In order for the State of New Hamphsire to grant or deny the appeal, it has to decide if DES or Wetlands has made the right decision... The Corrs had to push for this....
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#123 | |
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Were there missteps along the way? It appears so, but in part the ZBA and Wetlands Board are supposed to review and make their rulings. We hear a lot about the building's (new) location, but not much about the ZBA or Wetlands Bord hearings. Presumably, DES made their case at the Wetlands Board and were unconvincing. ZBA and, I think, Wetlands, are both quasi-judicial and take sworn testimony, which none of us witnessed. We have the LDS article that was probably written over a couple of days. Considering the time constraints of the news cycle, LDS was probably reasonable in its reporting. Many days later, we have lots of speculation about various "facts", but no self-identified lawyer silly enough to weigh in here. In the meantime, I think this is great thread that lets us all know we need to pay attention and how difficult it is to pay attention when you're absent for extended periods. We'll probably all forget, but it will be interesting to see if a bill gets filed next year to clarify the current RSA. |
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#124 | |
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The "dispute" between the two agencies is exactly what HAS landed before the NH Supreme Court. |
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#125 |
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Just out of curiosity anyone know why is this going directly to the NH supreme court? Aren't there lower district courts that would be in line to hear this first?
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#126 | |
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This section of the "'States Mission to dismiss" states pretty clear that the Corrs agreed to build the new boathouse to the same HEIGHT as the original one. "1. Bryan and Linda Corr own property located on Lake Winnipesaukee at 46 Deerhaven Road, Moultonborough, New Hampshire ("Property"). Administrative Order No. 17- 028 WD, ~ 1. The two structures on the property were built in the 1950s, one a primary building and the other near the water and frequently referred to as a "dry boathouse." See Appellant's Petition to Appeal at~ 10-14. 2. Around March 2015, this accessory structure collapsed from snow loads. !d. at~ 14. 3. On December 22, 2015 appellants sent DES a Wetlands Permit by Notification ("PBN") in which they sought to "replace an existing shoreland structure which was collapsed by snow load with a new structure in exact location and height." AO at~ 7. 4. DES accepted this PBN as #2016-00009, conditioned upon work being completed in accordance with an 11/2/15 plan attached to appellants' PBN. One of the project descriptions states "REPLACE PREVIOUSLY EXISTING NON-CONFORMING ACCESSORY STRUCTURE WHICH COLLAPSED FROM SNOW LOAD IN MARCH 2015 WITH NEW STRUCTURE IN EXACT LOCATION AND HEIGHT." !d. (emphasis added)."
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#127 | |
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No it is not. If you go back to the original story...
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The end result may or may not have ramification on the property owner or the neighbor. |
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#128 |
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Seems that the impinged view-ee should hire an attorney and try to get included into the court argument. Sitting back and doing nothing is never a good move.
Being a no-show is not the way to go.
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#129 |
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Well, it could get costly (hiring a lawyer), and besides, the issues that Lakegirl has with the new building are all obvious to DES and have been brought up already, A: building is too tall, and B: the building has been converted to living space. I doubt the supreme court hearing would be open to Lakegirl even if she did hire a laywer. But then I could be wrong. I'm no lawyer (but I played one on T.V.). Maybe better for Lakegirl to contact DES directly and offer her input/testimony.
Last edited by welch-time; 04-09-2019 at 12:05 AM. |
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#130 |
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Yes, just being present in court is a big step up from being a no-show, and letting the DES attorney mention or introduce her would be helpful to her opinion as the aggrieved.
Channel PERRY MASON here, and how it would go ..... Lord have mercy, your Honor, that big tall home recently built down at the water, is just such a hateful, hurtful, mean and nasty thing for them to go and do ...... like, who do they think they is .... and where do they get the right to do that ..... I have never been so upset about something ..... in all my born days ...... your Honor .... it is just so terribly terri-bobble ..... let me tell you! ![]()
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#131 |
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Any bets on who prevails?
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#132 |
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I’m going to bet the Corrs will lose. Structure is just too different from the original and does not resemble a “boathouse”
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#133 |
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My money, or at least my perspective on what should happen based on the equities, says the "boathouse" loses.
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#134 | |
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With all I have read, it seems like the case had gone through the lower applet courts that it needed too... Now what may be different here, is that this seems to be a state level issue, so possible there are some levels of applet court that get skipped. Unlike if this had been a issue with the Town of Moultonborough there would have been more levels of scrutiny... In short I think some of the need for NH supreme court is the level at which the dispute is at in the fact that it is State Agencies in conflict, along with the Land owners....
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#135 | |
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Having my families summer place in the same vicinity, if the Corrs loose, I am wondering what is going to happen. Yes the state could order them to take it down, by they could just knock it down and leave it a pile of rubble, if they are that upset.... If they are told they have to modify it and stick to the hieght restrictions, once again they could do it in poor tastes, and leave an eyesore... Now if they case foes for the Corrs, they finish the project and then what is next... will they try to do more? Over all for our quiet little road, this is going to be far from over, even once the Supreme court rules....
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#136 |
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Respectfully, again, I think most everyone is missing the point. The SCNH case (2018-0650) IS between the DES and the NH Wetlands Council where the DES is appealing a decision by the Council.
Maxum, the NH Wetlands council is listed as the “Lower Court/Agency” on the case. I’m assuming that NH regs allow one state agency to appeal another agency’s decision directly to the SC without going through a lower court. Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
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#137 | |
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I wonder whether, if they lose in court, the Corr family might have a cause of action against whomever they paid to get them through the permitting and construction process?
Heck, if it turns out the structure must be demolished I'd be out for blood, were I the home owner. Just sayin'.
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#139 | |
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#140 |
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SWNoel,
They are not logical with things that have gone on in the neighborhood since they moved in. |
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#141 | |
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Disobeying a court order will not go well, but disrespecting an order could just leave a mess and an eyesore. As lakegirl said they could just leave a pile of lumber and there is not much anyone can do about that. Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
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#142 |
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Joey2665,
A pile of lumber would be better than what is there now. I wouldn’t have to look at it at least. He put of a huge stockade fence across the whole property heading up into the woods a bit. It looks like hell. It extends toward the lake An extra 10 ft . The 10 ft “he claims” improves our view. I’ll see if I can add a pic. |
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#143 |
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iw8surf,
That was the day we took our docks out last Fall... lol. Hopefully they will be back in soon ( if ice ever goes out). I didn’t know there was a code on fencing. Enlighten me...are there rules? I don’t go on their property. |
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#144 |
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Ice out is in the future! We're almost there! No idea about regulations on fences in NH. Personally unless I'm "friends" with my neighbors I enjoy a good fence to maintain some peace and quiet on a busy lake
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#145 |
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If the fence is placed 50 feet or less to the watermark it requires a permit
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#146 | |
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Poor Richard,
Lol.... You speak the truth, especially in this case. |
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There are codes on fences. One is that if a fence is placed on a property line and is 6 ft or taller is can be classified as a grudge fence and can be ordered to be removed. I suggest you contact the building inspector about this fence.
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#149 |
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Fences are an interesting topic. And there are certainly many rules regarding their placement, upkeep etc. I think my first suggestion to anyone is that they make sure they understand where the boundary line is. And that the fence doesn't cross it. Because after a while, a fence in place, can become the property line.
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#150 |
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Fence regulations are local zoning and are different in each town. Some towns do not address fences. It will be interesting to hear what you learn, although we're drifting off course here.
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Lakegirl, I'm looking at the picture with the fence leaning on a piece of steel rebar.
Is that pin the lot line marker? Just curious. |
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Maybe she enjoys having a high fence next to this particular neighbor......
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This whole discussion is getting silly. Now we are discussing fences. We all should wait until the NHSC renders their opinion on this. Ice out cannot come soon enough IMO.
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I think the fence itself speaks volumes. Of course some of that maybe because I know more about what is going on because I am a resident on that road. You are right that the NHSC will render an opinion on this. And that will be the final word. But it shouldn't mean we cant discuss and debate the issue.Given the fact that the Corrs didn't seem to be entirely truth and up front about their plans and intentions, one would tend to believe a fence went up, because they don't want to be seen doing anything else that might be interpreted-able. Such as have they been holding firm to the cease and desist order, or have they continued with minor work? In short is that Fence really a silly little thing or could there be more too it. I think someone is maybe a little to over critical about this thread...
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Welch Time,
Yes, i believe it is..... it’s been there all my life. |
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Fundamentally, to me at least, is that this structure is nowhere near the original, which was what the permits said: "the original wetlands notification included the statement, “Replace an existing shoreland structure which was collapsed by snow load with a new structure in exact location and height.”
This appears to be a case of someone who keeps talking until he hears what he wants. The article is also very one-sided and makes it appear that the only issue was setting it back 10'. It would appear to me--after reading the article, looking at the photos, and hearing people's comments--that the owners tried to get a "house" in place of a "boathouse." I hope they have to dismantle it. Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk |
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The more I read the documentation submitted to the court the more likely I think the Wetlands decision will be upheld and the building will be allowed to stand as is. It's an unfortunate outcome for the neighbors but I think DES dropped the ball here not putting enough scrutiny on the amended PBN. The language on it is vague and because the building was being pushed back 10 feet which changed dramatically the base (starting elevation) where the original house was build into the landscape and embankment, the new one just plain sits on top of it. The fact they approved it and along with that approval was knowledge of what the ZBA approved of, including the plans submitted seems to infer they reviewed those plans and were OK with them. Whether or not that actually happened may be different story. The applicant can't be held to a standard that is not conveyed in the documentation clearly. See I don't think that amended PBN should have gotten approved, I think DES is kind of caught here back peddling on this trying to apply the standard they approved in the original PBN which technically can no longer apply.
Due to the pitch of the roof he may be a little higher than the original building but a couple or three foot difference is likely to get a pass (not arguing the merits of that) than if he was clearly adding a full second story etc... In other words - did he take some liberties on this, maybe, but to the point where the state orders this thing be taken down? I don't think so, because there is culpability on the part of DES and the town in regards to being clear what he could do which in DES's argument to the court makes it far clearer their position than the re-issued amended permit ever did. I could be wrong in how I read this, but that's how I see it. End of the day nobody wins. He's drawn so much attention to himself now and this project while I think it's likely he will win this battle he's also painted himself into a corner to where he now has constructed a very expensive and fancy shed. After all every single permit labels that as a "dry boat house" not living space. Any further improvements he attempts to do should be shot down. With an emphasis on should. Lakegirl24 - in order for this guy to live in said building he'd need a certificate of occupancy issued by the town which puts a whole lot of requirements on the building itself (mind you he is NOT permitted for) before he can "stay" in it. If he is doing this without one the town can and should ensure this is enforced. Technically just because somebody builds something doesn't mean they can just live in it. If there ever was a good example of why this law exists, this would be it and I'd make damn sure it was enforced. After all if you see him living in it go ask the town to see his COO. He also CANNOT bring pressurized water into that building with out having it tied to a septic system. He can't just tie this into his existing septic system without a permit for starters and the system has to be sized for the additional loading which is likely not. |
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Thinkxingu,
I really hope you’re right. What was proposed is absolutely NOT what is there. A structure that was supposed to be a 17 ft shed for a boat “replacing IN KIND” is DEFINITELY not what happened. That’s why he was SO protective over showing the plans. When I finally did see the plan it was looking more like a house but only about 16-17 ft high.....not 28-29 ft. It’s just UGLY. Brings down property values and takes away views that have been accessible for the last 60 yrs. He has all the pipes in for septic etc in order to make it a second home on one property. I’m STILL just shaking my head. He believes he is truly untouchable. He basically laughs at the whole neighborhood, town and now the State. If they let this fly it will set a new precedent for what is allowed to be built. |
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Lakegirl
Such a shame neighbors can be this way. Have also been some of this route with neighbors in Massachusetts. First, when fence fell down and we replaced with a stockade 6" high. However on the rear line a post and beam (i think that is what it was called) which replaced what was there. We surveyed the lot beforehand. When the rear line fence was being replaced the woman came yelling into our yard, was told the lot was surveyed. She wanted to see the survey. Ha, I told her if she wanted a survey do your own. Fast forward. Planning a Carriage house to complement the 108 y/o residence, everyoneon the 2 streets behind us came to the hearing. One lawyer gave each one thing to say. The one I loved was the woman behind us saying I was raping the land by taking down the trees. Now, we love trees, however, these trees were infested with ants , coming down anyway. Construction was completed and we had an $80 thousand 2 story 3 car carriage house. Now I should mention we love a good fight, esp. when we are right. But, will give on even when we know we are wrong. Extremely seldon. I apologize for the length of this. Hope the issue is settled in the manner it should with the structure being removed. |
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I don't doubt that MAXUM's assessment is correct.
![]() The NHSC ruled against keeping the Wolfeboro Airpark an operating airport. This was not in keeping with the NH Legislature's desire to keep small NH airports in operation. I have mixed feelings about this, as the floatplane operation could never have succeeded against the huge wakes we're seeing on Winter Harbor. (Or even the crayfish succeeding against those same wakes—for that matter). ![]() The one Winter Harbor private floatplane ramp was taken out a handful of years ago and the property sold off. ![]() Quote:
![]() The rare interaction with the neighbor they share the septics with has been totally one-sided; understandably, those neighbors are moving away. I don't say "boo" to them, and have never exchanged a single word. Can you guess why? ![]()
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Hi All,
I’ve been looking to find out when the Supreme Court case is and found that it won’t specifically say Corr’s....It will have DES as part of the title. This is what I need to look for: Appeal of NH Department of Environmental Services (DES) Docket # 2018-0650 I’m really hoping DES prevails. The public can also attend ....but get this....THE SUPREME COURT CAN THEN TAKE 6-12 MONTHS TO MAKE A DECISION..... REALLY????? |
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Lakegirl....
I know it sucks as you want a decision ASAP, but the wheels of justice turn slowly. Given the weight & legal precedence Supreme Court decisions carry, and the research that needs to be done... 6-12 months is reasonable. If you are lucky you might get a decision in the fall. Woodsy
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As a neighbor on the road, I too want to see this issue resolved...
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Agree that six to twelve months is a long time but as others have mentioned the Court needs to review past rulings and use those rulings along with the Law to render a decision.
This decision is not only for this case but will be used in other cases for many, many years to come. Good luck |
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Bigpatsfan,
Very true... I really hope they realize the precedence they will be setting on the lake for years to come. GREAT POINT! From what was essentially to be a storage shed for a boat to NOW a house that is nonconforming and no where near with in the setbacks. —By the way my brother reminded me that this is the 2nd non conforming structure on that lot. There’s also a shed that the previous owner was up front with my Dad showed him the plans and stuck to his word. It didn’t infringed on anyone’s view so my Dad was ok with it. This guy thinks the rules don’t apply to him from building this structure to the 150ft law on the water. He takes off 10 ft off his dock. SMH Last edited by Lakegirl24; 04-17-2019 at 08:26 PM. |
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If the shed was built after the period where it would be grandfathered, or was built without a permit , or in any way constitutes a zoning violation, I know what I would do..................
And, if there was a consistent time of day he takes off from his dock, or it is a regular occurrence and the Marine Patrol received a complaint, they would have an officer stop by to speak with the offender. Pictures emailed to the Marine Patrol would be even better. Two can play this game! |
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#167 | |
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Can anyone give me more information or a link on this for Meredith? Last night, my neighbor tells me with strong and serious emphasis, that he's gonna put up a fence between us that's twelve feet high!
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Marriott's is in Tuftonboro and they made the tiny kitchen bigger and had to remove it. There were already living quarters in it before that. I didn't know one of the Walgreen's had to remove living quarter's from a boathouse. The one in Wolfeboro doesn't live there any more. The wife of the other is still in Alton.
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FlyingScott,
The shed happened MANY years ago with a prior owner who was upfront with my Dad. It was too close to the lot line but my Dad was ok with it because it didn’t obstruct anyone’s view and was not near the water. Plus it was tastefully done and only a shed exactly what was proposed. Mr Corr got the OK from my dad to replace EXACTLY what was there from before a dry boathouse EXACTLY same dimensions. Mr. Corr is the one who took liberties and built a house instead. Like I said before a little respect goes a long way. We have been there for over 50 yrs. Never an argument with a neighbor until now. They have now had issues with AT LEAST 3 neighbors I’m aware of at this point in the little time they have been there. |
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FatLazyLess,
This is taking place in Moultonboro....Not Meredith. Call the Meredith zoning board. They should know. |
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Several years ago I applied to the town and the state to do some work on my property. I sent pictures and diagrams in with the application to better explain my proposal. Within 10 days I got a letter from DES saying "It appears that there are living quarters above the boathouse." It asked for proof that the construction was done legally and with permits, before the regulations prohibiting building the structure were in place. The proposed construction had nothing to do with the boathouse. I went to the town building inspector and we looked through the file for the property. He found a hand drawn sketch of the property from the 1950's that accompanied a permit application for a fence. It labeled the boathouse "boathouse with cottage above". I asked the Building Inspector to call DES because I knew they would never believe me if I showed them that. He did, and the issue was resolved. These days, I don't think people who are inclined to flaunt the regulations can get away with much. |
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You are right Tilton. The Marriotts did NOT "get away with it". They had to remove the new construction.
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When paperwork is filed indicating one set of intentions, and the outcome is not what was originally intended, people need to be held accountable. Living in the area, I know that there was going to re-construction of the origianl boat shed. I also believed that there would be some modification... But Arriving in the spring, and seeing what is essentially a full fledged Tiny Home was surprising to say the least. While none of the aplications indicating that living space was going to added, I don't know how this would end up being allowed to stand..... We will see....
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So this has been a very quiet thread for a month.....
Does anyone have any updates on the status of this? |
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I would not anticipate hearing anything new until the fall, and likely almost the end of the year, before there is a decision. I have to believe that in the mater of importance, this issue is low on the supreme courts list. The have agreed to hear the case, they don't apparently have to indicate or say when they will do so...
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Has there been any updates on this case that anyone knows of?
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The NH Attorney General's office is prosecuting it and it is just a matter of when the court date comes up. Until then it will be pretty quiet.
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I drove by it a few times....It looks so out of place. I can’t imagine they allowed that to happen after reading through this whole forum. It CLEARLY is NOT a boathouse but a house. I really hope that thing comes down. Obviously they were trying to put something over on the town and state. Why would you move a “ DRY BOATHOUSE “ away from the water? ....and what happened to replacing it “IN KIND”? This certainly isn’t “IN KIND”. I knew what was there before and this doesn’t even resemble it. In fact I don’t think a boat would even fit in the basement of this “BOATHOUSE “. Lol
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Wondering if anything has been heard about this issue? I have noted it looked like they might have started working on the "Boat House" again....
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Emotions and/or common sense may have nothing to do with ultimate decision. |
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By the way if you want to here what was said to the supreme court video tape the proceedings which can be found here: LINK
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I watched the tape of the Supreme Court testimony. It appears that there are some things in the law that need to be clarified. I would not be surprised if after this case is decided NH DES has legislation submitted to tighten and clean up the law.
From a common sense perspective, and just from looking at the pictures, the new structure has nothing to do with the old building in either size, shape, or purpose. The decision should be very interesting. |
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Thank you very much for supplying the link to the Supreme Court testimony
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Any word on the Supreme Courts decision on this case?
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I see nothing on the NHSC website yet...
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I think the courts have mostly been closed, or on reduced operations.
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The state lost, the boathouse owner won. Given the information that has been previously discussed, I am surprised.
In its May 22 ruling, the Supreme Court rejected the DES argument that it had the right to restrict the structure to the 17-foot height of the original boathouse. https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...081012daf.html |
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This is a surprising decision, however I am very confident that LakeGirl24's house has appreciated in value during this time frame, and will likely continue doing so once all construction has been completed.
Hopefully the neighbors will all be able to get along and put all the bitterness behind them for good. |
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The court not only denied the DES but added this, "DES has failed to demonstrate, particularly in the circumstances of this case, how height has any relation to the protection of the public waters and the adjacent shoreland.".
This puts into question whether the DES has any future authority to regulate shoreland building HEIGHT unless they can prove that height of a building impacts the quality of public waters. I'm not sure that they can? Footprint, sure. Height? The building "was approved by the local zoning board and the state board that oversees water pollution control, the Wetlands Council". I would argue that the Wetlands Council ALSO lacks control over building height, for the same reason. Only the local zoning board could have control of the height of a building along the water, IF they created a shoreland zone with restricted building height. I'm not sure that would pass legal muster either but towns have a lot of discretion in zoning laws. |
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Jeffk: Good point.
So is the question whether the law must be proven to be necessary or fulfill it's intended purpose to make it enforceable? If the state has a height requirement, on it's face, it cannot be enforced unless there is a proven improvement to water quality? Or does the proponent just need to prove there is no negative impact? What will DES Wetlands do with the next submitted application that only expands vertically? This raises a lot of questions and may result in people expanding their homes upward when they have previously been denied a permit. This decision sets a precedent that will impact many future legal outcomes. |
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#197 |
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Sounds to me like the Court made clear that water quality and building height have nothing to do with each other. So the local ZBA will have authority when it comes to building height.
I would expect towns to change the zoning laws to clarify & control building height. Woodsy
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Woodsy
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Here is a link to the court's written decision:
https://cases.justia.com/new-hampshi...?ts=1590152637
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