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Old 07-03-2020, 01:40 PM   #1
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So I dropped my boat for an oil change/tune up/bellows check at Hazard Marine down here near my house in Mass and after two weeks of no communication I stopped in to find out that apparently my motor that ran beautiful all last season is junk. His words to me were “it was running like $&:t” so they did a compression test and found #7 to be dead.” He was pretty arrogant about the whole thing when I asked what he was talking about as it had been running great w no issues. I am done w having him work on it and will be bringing it home to check out myself.

I am really hoping to have this going again for our vacation in Moultonboro starting the 18th but maybe a pipe dream?? It’s a Volvo Penta 5.7
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Old 07-03-2020, 09:05 PM   #2
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And the point is???????
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Old 07-03-2020, 09:58 PM   #3
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B reak

O ut

A nother

T housand


Or several...
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Old 07-03-2020, 09:58 PM   #4
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If a doctor told you that you had cancer and you were feeling fine, wouldn't you get another opinion?
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Old 07-04-2020, 06:41 AM   #5
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Try Jim over at Barry's Bait on Southwest Cutoff. While a little unconventional he is an excellent mechanic. I have been using him for twenty years. He is in back of the old USA Marine in Worcester

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Old 07-04-2020, 07:26 AM   #6
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And the point is???????
Guess I should have been more direct, but I was still a bit heated from the news. I Was hoping someone had seen the issue before and might offer some advice for the diy route and if anyone had experience with getting parts in that tight of a time frame.
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Old 07-04-2020, 07:43 AM   #7
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Try Jim over at Barry's Bait on Southwest Cutoff. While a little unconventional he is an excellent mechanic. I have been using him for twenty years. He is in back of the old USA Marine in Worcester
Thanks for the contact info, I am right down the road in Sutton so that may work well! Thanks again!
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Old 07-04-2020, 07:49 AM   #8
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Might be a stuck valve, probably worse than that. It depends on how much of a mechanic you are if you can fix it DIY. Going to cost money and time.
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Old 07-04-2020, 07:50 AM   #9
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First off I would definitely let somebody else look at it or go down to AutoZone and borrow one of their compression testers and check it yourself if you don't happen to have one. They are fairly inexpensive to buy and kind of handy to have.

There could be any number of reasons why you loose compression in a cylinder so the cause will have to be determined before the time and money required to fix it are known. It is a bit unusual for this to occur as described.

IF it turns out you have low compression in one cylinder before doing anything else check to make sure you have good spark from that plug - if you have a misfire or no fire that can cause unburned fuel to build up in the cylinder, erode the oil film and thus cause loss of compression. Hint - a misfire can mimic the symptoms of poor compression.

What does the oil pressure look like?

Pull the spark plug, shoot a few squirts of marvel mystery oil in there and fire it up, see if that helps in case you have a stuck ring.

Scoping the cylinder may also give you a tell tale which gives you a visual of the cylinder walls and top of the piston. If you can see scoring on the cylinder walls that's not good.

Checking the valve clearances my help you find a bent valve or excessive carbon buildup that may be interfering with the valves seating correctly.

I could go on and on, point being before that engine comes apart a competent mechanic has a bunch of things that can be checked with minimal time and effort that will be a good indicator as to what is wrong. A simple compression test is not sufficient enough to fully diagnose this problem (if one even exists).
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Old 07-04-2020, 08:04 AM   #10
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I agree it might be a hung valve.


A few years ago I installed a running engine toward the end of a season, put it in storage for the winter, went to fire it up the following spring and had backfires coming through the carb.

After some fumbling around a friend and I used a borescope and discovered a valve was stuck open. It was bad enough to where a pushrod was bent. After removing the heads (because if I'm rebuilding one, might as well rebuild both) I was met with the surprise of a valve that needed to be pounded out of the guide.

No idea why or how it happened but I went from a running engine to a head rebuild just like that.
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Old 07-04-2020, 09:17 AM   #11
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I agree it might be a hung valve.


A few years ago I installed a running engine toward the end of a season, put it in storage for the winter, went to fire it up the following spring and had backfires coming through the carb.

After some fumbling around a friend and I used a borescope and discovered a valve was stuck open. It was bad enough to where a pushrod was bent. After removing the heads (because if I'm rebuilding one, might as well rebuild both) I was met with the surprise of a valve that needed to be pounded out of the guide.

No idea why or how it happened but I went from a running engine to a head rebuild just like that.
This is why I am really surprised that there are those who either don't do any kind of oil change in the off season (regardless of hours of use) or wait till spring to change out the oil.

IF any contaminants suspended in the oil - especially moisture get into some of these areas it can cause corrosion siting there for prolonged periods of time and when you're dealing with very tight clearances it doesn't take much to cause something to bind or seize. That is where potentially catastrophic damage can occur in mere seconds.

Also a reason not to skimp on cheap fluids and filters. In the long run it's just not worth it.
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Old 07-04-2020, 09:18 AM   #12
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Thanks for the tips guys. I am well versed in the auto side of things I rebuilt the ls short block in my race car and built a few cars just never had the reason to dig into boats, so not sure of anything unique to them especially as far as getting parts goes. My plan is to do a leak down test on it and see where the compression is escaping to and then we’ll go from there. I spoke to some guys on another forum who noted that the Volvo’s tend to develop a leak in the exhaust riser that leaks down to the exhaust valve causing them to rust and seize in place. A bore scope had crossed my mind and might be the best route before I go ripping everything apart.
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Old 07-04-2020, 09:22 AM   #13
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This is why I am really surprised that there are those who either don't do any kind of oil change in the off season (regardless of hours of use) or wait till spring to change out the oil.

IF any contaminants suspended in the oil - especially moisture get into some of these areas it can cause corrosion siting there for prolonged periods of time and when you're dealing with very tight clearances it doesn't take much to cause something to bind or seize. That is where potentially catastrophic damage can occur in mere seconds.

Also a reason not to skimp on cheap fluids and filters. In the long run it's just not worth it.
100% this. I usually oil change in the fall when I winterize, but this year ran out of time and said oh what the heck I’ll just do it in the spring......good call on my part apparently.....
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Old 07-04-2020, 09:24 AM   #14
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Thanks for the tips guys. I am well versed in the auto side of things I rebuilt the ls short block in my race car and built a few cars just never had the reason to dig into boats, so not sure of anything unique to them especially as far as getting parts goes. My plan is to do a leak down test on it and see where the compression is escaping to and then we’ll go from there. I spoke to some guys on another forum who noted that the Volvo’s tend to develop a leak in the exhaust riser that leaks down to the exhaust valve causing them to rust and seize in place. A bore scope had crossed my mind and might be the best route before I go ripping everything apart.
Sounds like you know what you are doing, I would have at it if it were mine and I had the place to work on it.
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Old 07-07-2020, 01:12 AM   #15
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I was able to spend a good three or so hours on it tonight. Confirmed the issue with a leak down test, appears to be a valve issue, possibly a head gasket. Oil is clean and no leakage into the crank case. I expected to find a leaking exhaust riser gasket dropping water on the exhaust valve as I had read it was common on these engines in a few places, but mine were clean, no signs of rust anywhere and the gaskets where in tact. I am thankful this has always been a freshwater boat, very little corrosion and the bolts actually come loose.

Got most of the parts torn down, manifolds, risers, wiring. I need to finish pulling the accessory drives off the front of the motor so I can free the head and then get the intake off and pull the head tomorrow.

Big thanks to Four Winns for actually giving some room in the engine compartment to work in! I am 6'0 and 240lbs and can squeeze myself in there to get at everything!!

If anyone has a lead on a head for an 06 5.7 GF-I Volvo let me know! I called a few places today and haven't heard back from anyone yet. Its a standard Chevy Vortec head, center bolt valve cover. I'll try to post some pictures of the work for anyone interested.
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Old 07-07-2020, 01:20 PM   #16
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If anyone has a lead on a head for an 06 5.7 GF-I Volvo let me know! I called a few places today and haven't heard back from anyone yet. Its a standard Chevy Vortec head, center bolt valve cover. I'll try to post some pictures of the work for anyone interested.
You'll need to verify the casting numbers and cross check the specs, but odds are good this is what you need: https://www.alliedmotorparts.com/96-...nder-head.html The GM year and the Volvo year are meaningless, VP used Vortecs for years after GM stopped putting them in vehicles in 2002. If it has casting plugs (freeze plugs) and they are steel, you'll need to replace them with brass unless you have fresh water cooling.

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Old 07-07-2020, 01:38 PM   #17
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You'll need to verify the casting numbers and cross check the specs, but odds are good this is what you need: https://www.alliedmotorparts.com/96-...nder-head.html The GM year and the Volvo year are meaningless, VP used Vortecs for years after GM stopped putting them in vehicles in 2002. If it has casting plugs (freeze plugs) and they are steel, you'll need to replace them with bras unless you have fresh water cooling.
WOW, thats a really good price for a complete head!

I would have expected double or triple that.
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Old 07-07-2020, 02:10 PM   #18
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WOW, thats a really good price for a complete head!

I would have expected double or triple that.
They made a zillion of them and there's very little market anymore for the small block chevy. The GM LS motors are so awesomely powerful, compact, efficient, and cheap, few people are bothering with Vortec motors anymore. Variable valve timing really rocks.
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Old 07-07-2020, 08:12 PM   #19
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I have contemplated pulling the LS2 out of the GTO and dropping her in the boat so we can make vacation, but what would I do with 500+ hp in a deck boat on a lake with a 45mph speed limit

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They made a zillion of them and there's very little market anymore for the small block chevy. The GM LS motors are so awesomely powerful, compact, efficient, and cheap, few people are bothering with Vortec motors anymore. Variable valve timing really rocks.
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Old 07-07-2020, 10:46 PM   #20
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You could get on plane, very quickly.
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Old 07-08-2020, 10:41 AM   #21
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I have contemplated pulling the LS2 out of the GTO and dropping her in the boat so we can make vacation, but what would I do with 500+ hp in a deck boat on a lake with a 45mph speed limit
The Roadkill guys made a video where they towed an engineless boat to Lake Elsinore with a Chevy pickup, transplanted the LS engine from the truck into the boat at the launch ramp, drove the boat around the lake (cannot recall how they launched it without the truck...) put the engine back in the truck, and towed the boat home.
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Old 07-08-2020, 09:54 PM   #22
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I have seen that episode, those guys are great. I got everything apart, ordered the 906 casting head from the link you posted thanks Dave!! Ordered 600 bucks worth of filters, belts, hoses, t stat, gaskets, etc. The maintenance items should be here Friday, head on Monday. I may take Tues off from work to slap it all back together so I have a few days to take care of any issues before vacation.
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Old 07-11-2020, 11:04 AM   #23
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I have seen that episode, those guys are great. I got everything apart, ordered the 906 casting head from the link you posted thanks Dave!! Ordered 600 bucks worth of filters, belts, hoses, t stat, gaskets, etc. The maintenance items should be here Friday, head on Monday. I may take Tues off from work to slap it all back together so I have a few days to take care of any issues before vacation.
I like your can-do attitude and I hope it all goes back together smoothly. If, for some reason, you need a scanner for that engine, I have a Tech Mate that you can borrow.
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Old 07-11-2020, 07:07 PM   #24
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How do the cylinder walls look? More specifically #7?
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Old 07-12-2020, 08:21 AM   #25
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I didn't take off the other head, so I am hoping that cylinder 7 is fine! All the cylinder walls look great, can still see the factory cross hatch and there is no lip at the top of the bore. The engine only has about 480hrs on it.

I was hoping to catch some sleep after I got done taking this apart, but alas, the world had other plans! My deck fell apart a few weeks ago, so that wasn't safe for the little guys 2nd birthday today! My wife really wanted it done for his party,so it looks I am going to sleep my entire vacation away next week averaging 4hrs of sleep a night over the last week, but I sure got a lot of stuff done! Here's the new deck!
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Old 07-12-2020, 09:04 AM   #26
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Nice workmanship on that deck railing! My wife and I just re-did our deck and we had all we could do to get the 45’s to kiss!
Of course, we are not carpenters by any means!
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Old 07-14-2020, 01:07 AM   #27
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Quick update for those who are following along. Sloooow progress tonight! All my parts showed up, so only thing holding me back now is not having the time and feeling the effects of lack of sleep!

Everything is all cleaned up and ready to go back together for the most part. One weird thing I found is, I figured since I had everything apart I'd go ahead and replace the thermostat. So i split the tstat housing from the intake manifold and.....its empty There is no tstat in the housing?? The factory red Volvo paint was still completely intact and it doesn't look like anyone has ever been in there from what I can tell unless they sprayed it after so not sure what is going on there. I am going to replace the housing and the thermostat anyhow and we'll see how she runs. Maybe it disintegrated and is lodged somewhere in the block??

Anyhow, I have a buddy coming to help me tomorrow to get the head and intake installed (cast iron is heavy and its awkward climbing into the engine bay holding them!) and hopefully get the motor back together completely. I am hoping to test fire her on Weds using the muffs to make sure there are no issues then he head for Moultonboro on Sat morning.

Thanks to everyone for the words of encouragement and advice along the way! Hope to see you guys out on the lake in a few days!!
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Old 07-14-2020, 07:11 AM   #28
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Quick update for those who are following along. Sloooow progress tonight! All my parts showed up, so only thing holding me back now is not having the time and feeling the effects of lack of sleep!

Everything is all cleaned up and ready to go back together for the most part. One weird thing I found is, I figured since I had everything apart I'd go ahead and replace the thermostat. So i split the tstat housing from the intake manifold and.....its empty There is no tstat in the housing?? The factory red Volvo paint was still completely intact and it doesn't look like anyone has ever been in there from what I can tell unless they sprayed it after so not sure what is going on there. I am going to replace the housing and the thermostat anyhow and we'll see how she runs. Maybe it disintegrated and is lodged somewhere in the block??

Anyhow, I have a buddy coming to help me tomorrow to get the head and intake installed (cast iron is heavy and its awkward climbing into the engine bay holding them!) and hopefully get the motor back together completely. I am hoping to test fire her on Weds using the muffs to make sure there are no issues then he head for Moultonboro on Sat morning.

Thanks to everyone for the words of encouragement and advice along the way! Hope to see you guys out on the lake in a few days!!
Good luck, friend—hope to see you in the north!

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Old 07-14-2020, 07:12 AM   #29
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Quick update for those who are following along. Sloooow progress tonight! All my parts showed up, so only thing holding me back now is not having the time and feeling the effects of lack of sleep!

Everything is all cleaned up and ready to go back together for the most part. One weird thing I found is, I figured since I had everything apart I'd go ahead and replace the thermostat. So i split the tstat housing from the intake manifold and.....its empty There is no tstat in the housing?? The factory red Volvo paint was still completely intact and it doesn't look like anyone has ever been in there from what I can tell unless they sprayed it after so not sure what is going on there. I am going to replace the housing and the thermostat anyhow and we'll see how she runs. Maybe it disintegrated and is lodged somewhere in the block??

Anyhow, I have a buddy coming to help me tomorrow to get the head and intake installed (cast iron is heavy and its awkward climbing into the engine bay holding them!) and hopefully get the motor back together completely. I am hoping to test fire her on Weds using the muffs to make sure there are no issues then he head for Moultonboro on Sat morning.

Thanks to everyone for the words of encouragement and advice along the way! Hope to see you guys out on the lake in a few days!!
I recommend that you make 4 temporary studs out of threaded rod or bolts. 2 the size of the head bolts (7/16-14, I think) and 2 the size of the exhaust manifold bolts (3/8-16, I think). It makes alignment much easier and reduces the risk of gasket damage. I have used stainless steel for the exhaust manifold bolts with no issues in the past. I don't think they require much torque, unlike the head bolts.

The missing thermostat is very odd. That's not good for engine longevity and is usually a band-aid fix for some other problem in the cooling system. There's no way the thermostat disintegrated. There were two designs of the thermostat housing if memory serves, the two piece has the thermostat in between the two pieces, the one piece sits on top of the thermostat. Maybe you have a two piece?
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Old 07-14-2020, 06:42 PM   #30
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Good luck on your project. Seems like you have a good handle on it. I remember many many years ago during the days of the old water ski races we lost a cylinder head to cracks. Had another pair rebuilt at an automotive machine shop in Woburn, Mass drove them up the lake and swapped them out on the water. My Dad, after that never complained about my junk car parts in the garage ever again.
Funny you said that! During the waterski racing days, I would scrounge around for used QuickSilver parts for rebuild! Found a gem down in Chelmsford, Middlesex Marine. When I told them about the races, they came up and were formidable contenders. They were the best days on the lake!

You mentioned a machine shop in Woburn. The Gallante boys?
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Old 07-15-2020, 01:58 AM   #31
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So close to getting her going again!! Valve lash is set, cover will go on, hopefully for good tomorrow, restring the harness, plug everything back in along with a few misc hoses, spark plugs, wires, swap out the impeller pump, hook the exhaust manifold and risers back up, charge the battery back up, hook up the muffs and turn her over!

Note to anyone who does this, don't spray paint the head in your finished basement with only a drop cloth down unless you like a Volvo red tinge to the floors, walls, cabinets.......my poor wife.....

Oh, and I found the thermostat.......didn't realize it was up in the housing and not in the intake manifold....rookie mistake there or lack of sleep...
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Old 07-15-2020, 08:52 AM   #32
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After all that work done by your sleep deprived self...

DON'T FORGET TO PUT THE DRAIN PLUG IN BEFORE LAUNCHING IT!
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Old 07-15-2020, 11:03 AM   #33
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After all that work done by your sleep deprived self...

DON'T FORGET TO PUT THE DRAIN PLUG IN BEFORE LAUNCHING IT!
Good Call!!! I should tie it around my wrist so I have to look at it the entire time on the way up! I realized when I woke up this morning that I failed to buy the new filters I had intended to, so hopefully one last trip to the marina to get fuel and oil filters to throw on it tonight.
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Old 07-15-2020, 03:30 PM   #34
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So close to getting her going again!! Valve lash is set, cover will go on, hopefully for good tomorrow, restring the harness, plug everything back in along with a few misc hoses, spark plugs, wires, swap out the impeller pump, hook the exhaust manifold and risers back up, charge the battery back up, hook up the muffs and turn her over!

Note to anyone who does this, don't spray paint the head in your finished basement with only a drop cloth down unless you like a Volvo red tinge to the floors, walls, cabinets.......my poor wife.....

Oh, and I found the thermostat.......didn't realize it was up in the housing and not in the intake manifold....rookie mistake there or lack of sleep...
I hope those spark plugs you painted (installed in the head) were temporary place holders otherwise may want to clean off the tips before you put the wires on or she may run poorly :-)
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Old 07-15-2020, 05:38 PM   #35
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Haha they were two old ones and two spares from the race car. I got all new plugs for her today.
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Old 07-16-2020, 01:27 AM   #36
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Well she starts beautifully! Had one small leak at the riser/manifold joint because I didn't clean it up well enough. Fixed that and she purred to life on the first blip of the key. Idles smooth and no unusual noises. Then the fun starts, if i open the throttle up and bring the rpm's up she starts to develop a pretty good stumble at around 1.8-2k rpms.

I did cap/rotor/wires/plugs new. The only thing left in the ignition original is the coil. I also have a feeling there is some bad gas in there. I am going to yank the fuel filter and have a look tomorrow. It was getting too late to keep futzing with it today. Also, anyone know if marina's usually carry the spark arrestor/air cleaners for these motors? Mine appears to be pretty clogged up with what i assume is fogging oil and every particle of dust known to man...
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Old 07-16-2020, 02:57 AM   #37
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Have you tried cleaning it with brake cleaner?


I do have a couple spark arrestors from old Mercruiser 454's that had Rochester 4bbl carbs.

If you are in a bad spot as far as sourcing a replacement, feel free to send some dimensions and I'll see if it matches up.

Unless someone (Dave R?) knows if the 5.7 and 7.4 spark arrestors are cross-compatible...?
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Old 07-16-2020, 07:27 AM   #38
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I've cleaned mine with the same process as a typical K&N filter, soap and water, let it soak a while then hit it with some compressed air.

There should be no reason to replace the spark arrestor, at least on a Merc.
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Old 07-16-2020, 10:44 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juiced06GTO View Post
Well she starts beautifully! Had one small leak at the riser/manifold joint because I didn't clean it up well enough. Fixed that and she purred to life on the first blip of the key. Idles smooth and no unusual noises. Then the fun starts, if i open the throttle up and bring the rpm's up she starts to develop a pretty good stumble at around 1.8-2k rpms.

I did cap/rotor/wires/plugs new. The only thing left in the ignition original is the coil. I also have a feeling there is some bad gas in there. I am going to yank the fuel filter and have a look tomorrow. It was getting too late to keep futzing with it today. Also, anyone know if marina's usually carry the spark arrestor/air cleaners for these motors? Mine appears to be pretty clogged up with what i assume is fogging oil and every particle of dust known to man...

I seriously doubt the spark arrestor is causing the stumble, but it's easy enough to test, just remove it for a short test run.

Check your fuel pressure, you may have a clog in the fuel pump that developed over the off-season. VP used some paint in the fuel cooler that flakes off from ethanol in the gas and can clog a screen in the low pressure side of the fuel pump assembly.
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Old 07-16-2020, 11:16 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juiced06GTO View Post
Well she starts beautifully! Had one small leak at the riser/manifold joint because I didn't clean it up well enough. Fixed that and she purred to life on the first blip of the key. Idles smooth and no unusual noises. Then the fun starts, if i open the throttle up and bring the rpm's up she starts to develop a pretty good stumble at around 1.8-2k rpms.

I did cap/rotor/wires/plugs new. The only thing left in the ignition original is the coil. I also have a feeling there is some bad gas in there. I am going to yank the fuel filter and have a look tomorrow. It was getting too late to keep futzing with it today. Also, anyone know if marina's usually carry the spark arrestor/air cleaners for these motors? Mine appears to be pretty clogged up with what i assume is fogging oil and every particle of dust known to man...
There are few things as satisfying as putting an engine back together and starting it.

I would bet on fuel delivery for the stumble
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Old 07-16-2020, 11:21 AM   #41
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Yea I know it isn’t the spark arrest or causing the issue I yanked it off and had the same issue. Anyone know if these motors have a rev limiter built into them when in neutral? I’ve read a few posts that mention it but can’t find anything conclusive. It is the same exact spot every time which makes it seem like a possibility. I am going to yank the fuel filter, add a piece of hose into a 5 gallon can w new gas in it, check the timing and all my wires and see what happens. If all fails we’ll be putting around at idle all week!! Haha
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Old 07-16-2020, 11:25 AM   #42
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I know nothing about that particular motor but if it has a conventional distributor check the spark advance for being stuck or loose or the vacuum hose in the wrong place.
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Old 07-16-2020, 12:25 PM   #43
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My guess is a vacuum leak somewhere. Try running and spray carb cleaner and see if it raises the rpms.
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Old 07-16-2020, 01:17 PM   #44
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Double check the inside of the fuel line.

A local shop just had a bad batch of brand new fuel line. The inner liner was collapsing and restricting fuel flow. The more load you put on the motor the worse it got. You can't tell the condition from the outside, even if it is brand new.
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Old 07-16-2020, 10:02 PM   #45
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It lives!!!!!!!!!

So came back to it tonight after a rough day at my day job needing to clear my head. Checked all the wires to make sure they went where they were supposed to, all good there. Started it again and clicked it into gear and verified issue still present when in gear. I picked up a coil at the local marina just in case I needed it. Decided to yank the fuel filter and check that, fuel looked ok. I ran a hose to a 5 gal gas can, put a new filter on it ran it from that tank and had the same issue. At this point I am ready to throw the paddle in and plan on rowing for most of my vacation...

My buddy showed up to give me a hand at this point and we decided to go after the timing. The WSM says that the initial timing on these motors can't be adjusted without a Volvo tool to put it into service mode. I figured what the hell, if you turn the distributor there is no choice but to adjust when the rotor creates spark. We started it up and started moving the distributor to see if it did anything. At first I couldn't really see anything changing on the timing tab/balancer. We went way clockwise and tried to rev it and she started breaking up really bad at about 1500rpm, started rolling it back CCW and it started to clear up, raised the rpm more break up, went a little more CCW and now we are looking at 22-2300rpm, ok good so far, keep going, 3k, 3.5k,quick blip to 4k!!! We have a winner!!!!

She is smoother than she has ever been firing on all cylinders and ready to rip!!! I still have to swap out the impeller and throw the new serp belt on and bang out an oil change, but super psyched and enjoying a celebratory beer now that she is up and running!!!

Thanks to everyone again for the tips along the way, see you on the lake in a few days! My boat still has the old owners name on "Club Fed" so say hi if ya see me out there! Link to her running if you have FB - https://www.facebook.com/anthony.dey...76246826/?t=60
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