Cost of Permanent Dock

[Tank151]

Folks,

I was wondering if anyone could give me an estimate on what the cost would be to install a 50 foot wood u-shaped dock? Cost and experience of the permit would be helpful also...

Thanks
Tank

[LIforrelaxin]

not sure about cost, but if you are looking at a new installation, the U shape would not necessarily be granted... A permanent dock requires permitting and approval...

I would suggest contacting companies like WaterMark to get estimates, as they can also give you a clear picture of what may or may not be permitted in your location.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Tank151

Folks,

I was wondering if anyone could give me an estimate on what the cost would be to install a 50 foot wood u-shaped dock? Cost and experience of the permit would be helpful also...

Thanks
Tank

Do you have depth issues that would necessitate a 50' long dock? Typically you would have a tough time getting one that long approved. The definition of a slip by NH standards is 25' of length from the point that the water depth is 3 feet deep at full lake level.

[NHWakesurfer]

I would start by calling Ambrose Marine. They do a great job.

50' dock would be interesting if it would be approved all I could get was 25' U shape but I guess its all depth that would determine that.

If you need a breakwater or not will be huge swing in cost. If you need the rocks you will be into the 60K+ range and likely next year on timing as the barges are booked out that far would be my guess

the rocks aside for your queston on dock costs it all depends on what you put into the finish materials.

I had mine repaired from Ice issues this year and here is a rough idea.

1. A permit to do the repairs around $1000 would be more I suspect for new
2. On a new one I think they'd have to do a survey...its been a while so not sure on the price
3. my major ice repairs (some of the old dock was still usable) and some rocks on the breakwater reset was 21K +/-
4. I used the middle of the road Azek decking it would have been thousands more for the higher grade decking
5. dock lighting that is something I had to have redone that was serveral thousand 5K+ (depends on the quality of the lights could easily be more)
6. New dock post fenders installed around a thousand

So at 50' I guess it would be double and with how the lake ripped up docks this year I know a number of dock installers are booking out to next year so it could be a long journey. Good luck and hope some of this helped.

Now that I'm all put back together I hold my breath to see what next winters ice does to it

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by NHWakesurfer

I would start by calling Ambrose Marine. They do a great job.

50' dock would be interesting if it would be approved all I could get was 25' U shape but I guess its all depth that would determine that.

If you need a breakwater or not will be huge swing in cost. If you need the rocks you will be into the 60K+ range and likely next year on timing as the barges are booked out that far would be my guess

the rocks aside for your queston on dock costs it all depends on what you put into the finish materials.

I had mine repaired from Ice issues this year and here is a rough idea.

1. A permit to do the repairs around $1000 would be more I suspect for new
2. On a new one I think they'd have to do a survey...its been a while so not sure on the price
3. my major ice repairs (some of the old dock was still usable) and some rocks on the breakwater reset was 21K +/-
4. I used the middle of the road Azek decking it would have been thousands more for the higher grade decking
5. dock lighting that is something I had to have redone that was serveral thousand 5K+ (depends on the quality of the lights could easily be more)
6. New dock post fenders installed around a thousand

So at 50' I guess it would be double and with how the lake ripped up docks this year I know a number of dock installers are booking out to next year so it could be a long journey. Good luck and hope some of this helped.

Now that I'm all put back together I hold my breath to see what next winters ice does to it

All that cost, hence why I continue to just have a seasonal dock... Too much cost with a permanent structure, especially when you factor in the ice!!!!!!!!!!

Things like Mooring whips really help prevent the need for the U shape dock... Unless of course you need the space for additional boats....

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by Tank151

Folks,

I was wondering if anyone could give me an estimate on what the cost would be to install a 50 foot wood u-shaped dock? Cost and experience of the permit would be helpful also...

Thanks
Tank

If you can show need, 50' is not an issue.

You need to contact a professional have them come out and evaluate your situation. Only then could you get an idea of cost and layout.

The sky is really the limit. A client of mine that just had the surface of the dock replaced a few years ago has a 53' crib dock with a 12' x 8' end platform, a 8' by 16' platform attached to the crib with a 16' finger dock off that platform. It is basically a u shaped dock that averages 7' wide on all surfaces.

That dock cost more than most folks homes, but when you have 1600' of frontage with two homes, tennis court and 2 large garages, cost is not a question that generally comes up!

Just to give you an idea of what is possible, at that point personally I would just build a boathouse.

[codeman671]

Getting a boathouse approved these days is no small feat.

Sounds like that was a complete rework of an existing dock, they would not permit that if it was an attempt at a new installation. 6' is the normal width allowed.

I don't think the cost of docks has really increased that much since mine was done. We had a 3 finger crib dock 30' long extending from a 6' walkway along shore. With composite decking I think we were about $35k ($7k in composite alone). This allowed our outer slips to be 36' long from shore, not that you can really park your boat that close...

Make sure you have a full 12' width between the posts in the U. Ours was 11'4" between which limited us a bit on bigger boats. Our Monterey had a 10'6" beam, it was a snug fit.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by codeman671

Getting a boathouse approved these days is no small feat.

Sounds like that was a complete rework of an existing dock, they would not permit that if it was an attempt at a new installation. 6' is the normal width allowed.

All these things take is money.......... As Previously posted

There are several Boathouse that have been newly constructed or are being constructed on the north side of the lake.....

Similarly if a justification is made the 6' width limitation also disappears...

It all depends on how much time and money you have to negotiate with DES, and the Town......

I will agree that if the average home owner tries to go out side the prescribed norms that they will indeed run into resistance, and probably doesn't have the money to provide the study, and engineering information to allow a outside the norm project to happen.

Bottom line is throw enough money at it, anything is possible.....

[tis]

I disagree. Throwing money does not make the state officials change their minds. A boathouse is allowed today, but only a certain size and that is it. We built one almost three years ago and we built the largest size allowed and it is not very big.

[AKADQ]

Originally Posted by NHWakesurfer

I would start by calling Ambrose Marine. They do a great job.

I agree, Ambrose Marine Construction and the crew are great to work with. Speak with Tobin, nice guy...

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by tis

I disagree. Throwing money does not make the state officials change their minds. A boathouse is allowed today, but only a certain size and that is it. We built one almost three years ago and we built the largest size allowed and it is not very big.

Don't throw money at it. Plan and invest the money in the proper studies and prep work. Have a lawyer that knows what they are fighting for.

That is the difference between the owner of a vacation property that is valued by the town at 8 figures and the average water front owner. The former rarely throws money at anything!

I am not sure what you consider a big boathouse, but this one was build only a few years ago.
http://www.nhhomemagazine.com/July-A...f-a-Boathouse/

[tis]

The biggest boathouse allowed when we built was 900 Sq. Ft. I doubt the rule has been changed in the last couple of years.

Marriotts fought the state for a few years and ended up losing.

[TiltonBB]

A few years ago I had some winter damage to a piling. I contacted a local company and was quoted $1,200 for the permit and $500 to replace the piling.

I contacted DES and was told how to go through the permitting process using a PBN. (Permit by Notification) I completed the form myself, submitted it with a couple of pictures, and received a permit to do the repairs.

The entire permitting application process took less than 2 hours and by doing it myself I saved $1,200.

When money is no object it is fine to hire professionals to help you but for most of us saving a few dollars and learning something in the process is much better!

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by tis

The biggest boathouse allowed when we built was 900 Sq. Ft. I doubt the rule has been changed in the last couple of years.

Marriotts fought the state for a few years and ended up losing.

They lost because they built living quarters into that boathouse. It had nothing to do with the footprint of the structure. They presented applications for one design and then built a boathouse that included far more than what the application stated it would. Living quarters are no longer allowed, period!

Residential construction is not a one-size fits all industry.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Boathouses have not been allowed in Moultonboro for over 10 years. Restriction applies to all three major lakes: Winnipesaukee, Squam, and Kanasatka.

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

A few years ago I had some winter damage to a piling. I contacted a local company and was quoted $1,200 for the permit and $500 to replace the piling.

I contacted DES and was told how to go through the permitting process using a PBN. (Permit by Notification) I completed the form myself, submitted it with a couple of pictures, and received a permit to do the repairs.

The entire permitting application process took less than 2 hours and by doing it myself I saved $1,200.

When money is no object it is fine to hire professionals to help you but for most of us saving a few dollars and learning something in the process is much better!

You are correct there is a high cost to engineering studies and in some cases they may not be necessary. Just because you want (or think you need) to own 5 boats at a time, does not mean the state is going to say; yeah that sounds really cool, have at it!

It just makes me shake my head when homeowners say, this is not allowed or that can't be true, when in fact projects that far exceed the written guidelines are being built all the time.

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

Boathouses have not been allowed in Moultonboro for over 10 years. Restriction applies to all three major lakes: Winnipesaukee, Squam, and Kanasatka.

That 2000 SF Boathouse in that article I linked, was completed in 2008 and is located in Moultonborough! That is 6 years ago!

That project also included construction of a boardwalk through forested wetlands to access the frontage, filling of forested wetlands to relocate an existing access road.

Everything about that project exceeded the written guidelines and was made possible due to proper study ahead of time and knowing that the approval process in this state does not end at the first person you talk to at DES.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

Boathouses have not been allowed in Moultonboro for over 10 years. Restriction applies to all three major lakes: Winnipesaukee, Squam, and Kanasatka.

I would like to see that in writing.... because right now there is one being constructed on Pleasant Island...... Which I believe falls under the jurisdiction of Moultonborough....

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by Tank151

Folks,

I was wondering if anyone could give me an estimate on what the cost would be to install a 50 foot wood u-shaped dock? Cost and experience of the permit would be helpful also...

Thanks
Tank

So, back to your original question!

What you are looking for is outside the normal scope in the written guidelines for a dock in NH. The price could be as inexpensive as putting in a crank up dock (not that that is really considered inexpensive, but is a starting point) and not dealing with all that is required for a non-conforming permanent dock... or it could be a number considerably higher than that!

Each site is unique and each situation is unique and hopefully you got the picture that you should not listen to what your neighbors say is possible or allowed.

How bad do you want it?

The process for permitting at a minimum for a new dock will take a few months, non-conforming depends again on the site and what qualifies it to be non-conforming... it's a give an take sometimes.

[Little Bear]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

I would like to see that in writing.... because right now there is one being constructed on Pleasant Island...... Which I believe falls under the jurisdiction of Moultonborough....

If it's the Pleasant Island over near Long Island and the 6-pack, then it's in Tuftonboro. See tax map attached.

[Steveo]

I did not think boat houses were allowed anymore over existing water. I thought they were only allowed over land that could be dug out. Always sounded strange to me. Also, I thought crib docks were no longer allowed as well.

[tis]

Originally Posted by jmen24

They lost because they built living quarters into that boathouse. It had nothing to do with the footprint of the structure. They presented applications for one design and then built a boathouse that included far more than what the application stated it would. Living quarters are no longer allowed, period!

Residential construction is not a one-size fits all industry.

I know the Marriott story. My point was that attorneys and money do not necessarily buy what you need as was said on here.

Our boathouse was built in 2009. That person was lucky, they must have gotten in under the old rules.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Steveo

I did not think boat houses were allowed anymore over existing water. I thought they were only allowed over land that could be dug out. Always sounded strange to me. Also, I thought crib docks were no longer allowed as well.

I also was under the impression that boat houses were no longer allowed at all unless there was one on the site previously which would make it grandfathered in...

[tis]

You are right. The land has to be dug in, they are not allowed over existing water. And we therefore changed the shoreline so our other building had to be 50 feet in from the NEW waterline.

[RailroadJoe]

I think all it takes is a lot of money and a good lawyer to build anything you desire.

[SAB1]

Originally Posted by RailroadJoe

I think all it takes is a lot of money and a good lawyer to build anything you desire.

This is very true. Take a look at construction projects around the lake and you will see that.

Back to the dock. Call Watermark Marine if your serious about a dock. They do good work and show up when they say they will. Can't say as much for other outfits on the lake I have dealt with. But as mentioned above it costs plenty of money for the permanent dock. The permit from the state was $1200 alone and there were other fees and costs paid to the town etc that ran it up to $2,000 quick. It also takes a fair amount of time (several months) between when the application gets filed and when the approval comes in.

[tis]

I disagree. I don't think you can buy your way around the state rules. Maybe if you are the governor or someone in power in the state?

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

I also was under the impression that boat houses were no longer allowed at all unless there was one on the site previously which would make it grandfathered in...

That is not true at all.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by jmen24

That is not true at all.

So your saying you can build a NEW boat house over water on lake Winni and the land does not have to be dug in?? What tis went through is incorrect then??... because that is the exact way it was described to me when I inquired with someone I considered a reputable contractor on the lake.

Have you built one recently Jmen on lake Winni?

I would like to hear Shorefront confirm that can in fact build new over water boat houses on the lake without digging in.

Very interesting if true...

Dan

[jmen24]

While all the money in the world may not buy you forgiveness! A good allocation of capital (and patience) at the beginning could certainly buy you approval!

That is the lesson that Marriott learned. He felt the rules didn't apply to him and he found out wrong!

The owners of the linked boathouse received the approval for their work from the Executive Council for the Governors Office. That is the last stop before heading to a court.

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

So your saying you can build a NEW boat house over water on lake Winni and the land does not have to be dug in?? What tis went through is incorrect then??... because that is the exact way it was described to me when I inquired with someone I considered a reputable contractor on the lake.

Have you built one recently Jmen on lake Winni?

I would like to hear Shorefront confirm that can in fact build new over water boat houses on the lake without digging in.

Very interesting if true...

Dan

You stated that you were under the impression boathouses were no longer allowed at all unless one existed previously; that is not true. A new boathouse can be built on a waterfront lot starting tomorrow even if one did not exist there before.

How it has to be built is not what I was referring too!

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by jmen24

You stated that you were under the impression boathouses were no longer allowed at all unless one existed previously; that is not true. A new boathouse can be built on a waterfront lot starting tomorrow even if one did not exist there before.

How it has to be built is not what I was referring too!

Guess I should of said can't build one "over water at all unless one previously existed"

Please forgive me...

Dan

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Originally Posted by jmen24

That 2000 SF Boathouse in that article I linked, was completed in 2008 and is located in Moultonborough! That is 6 years ago!

That project also included construction of a boardwalk through forested wetlands to access the frontage, filling of forested wetlands to relocate an existing access road.

Everything about that project exceeded the written guidelines and was made possible due to proper study ahead of time and knowing that the approval process in this state does not end at the first person you talk to at DES.

The boathouse you referenced is well known and was permitted prior to the effective date of the pertinent zoning ordinance. There were several owners who took advantage of this time period to submit boathouse applications. Please check with the CEO Don Cahoon if you still have doubts.

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

The boathouse you referenced is well known and was permitted prior to the effective date of the pertinent zoning ordinance. There were several owners who took advantage of this time period to submit boathouse applications. Please check with the CEO Don Cahoon if you still have doubts.

I don't have doubts, I am fully aware of when the approval was given for this project. I am really just splitting hairs on "more than 10 years", that should read literally as just over the 10 year mark, by months.

It is quite common for towns to have "tighter" zoning regs than the state, New London is one such town in regard to shoreland zoning, but to flat deny the ability to conform to the state prescribed regulations of an approved structure on state controlled waters, seems bold!

Do you know the reasoning behind that decision?

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Guess I should of said can't build one "over water at all unless one previously existed"

Please forgive me...

Dan

No need for forgiveness Dan, I read your post and not the quoted portion you were expanding on. Had I read that flow of thought, I would not have responded. It wasn't until I read your reaction to my post that I started to think that I missed something and I had.

It's all good!

Jeremy

By the way:
I try very hard to live in the actual, not in the "I think" or "I heard" areas of what is allowed in residential construction. Many people take exception to an idea or activity that is slightly different than a choice or decision they made regarding their own home. I am not of the mindset to give someone bunk information. My black or white way of thinking rubs some people the wrong way, but I do not make excuses for my convictions or responsibilities.

I have apparently become a target for some recent posts that disagree with "popular" members, which is to be expected I guess.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Originally Posted by jmen24

I don't have doubts, I am fully aware of when the approval was given for this project. I am really just splitting hairs on "more than 10 years", that should read literally as just over the 10 year mark, by months.

It is quite common for towns to have "tighter" zoning regs than the state, New London is one such town in regard to shoreland zoning, but to flat deny the ability to conform to the state prescribed regulations of an approved structure on state controlled waters, seems bold!

Do you know the reasoning behind that decision?

I attended most of the Planning Board meetings when the ordinance was proposed. Basically, the Squam Lake powers to be put together a well oiled presentation to towns surrounding Squam, insisting that boathouses were the worst thing to ever happen to a lake. Tom Curren, then the Executive Director of the Lakes Region Conservation Trust, and the head of the Squam Lakes Association both made strong arguments concerning all sorts of environmental issues. They had obviously had prior discussions with the PB Chair Mark Tempkin and before anyone knew it, the proposed ordinance was approved to be put on the ballot for approval at town meeting. I believe that Center Harbor had already approved such a measure.

To the best of my knowledge, no towns that did not have Squam frontage were pressured to ban boathouses. Personally, I always thought that boathouses were fine and thought the ordinance was not necessary. In fact, hasn't it been proven that boathouses built over the water rather than dug into the land cause no ecological/environmental problems?

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Little Bear

If it's the Pleasant Island over near Long Island and the 6-pack, then it's in Tuftonboro. See tax map attached.

Thank you Little Bear, I will now gracefully fall on my sword .... Ouch... And apologize to Sue Doe-Nym, who is apparently correct about a ban on new boat houses in Moultonborough.