Roof Snow & Ice Dams...

[MGWillia]

Ok, educate the new guy. How about a little information on best practices, prevention, companies, whatever. This is new to me and I covet your experience. Speak to me.

[SIKSUKR]

Most roofs in the northeast have a pitch and structure that is designed for the snowloads we get here.I personally have never taken snow off any of my roofs and the same for most people.More insulation I say.I think too many people overdo it with snow removal from a roof and also end up doing damage to the the roofing shingles.This pic shows over 4 feet of snow on my deck.I never touched the roof and its fine.Use your comman sense judgment and you'll be fine.

[MGWillia]

I can see that many of the places around me don't seem to need it, and some have people who keep coming around to rake them. My issue is we have a LOT of ice dams going. HUGE icicles, some going from roof to ground. They have obviously caused past damage. So I'm thinking I am NOT one of the lucky ones that can just look out the window and enjoy it.

[B-Laps]

Depending on the age and construction of your building, you might not have any problems.

If you have a decently pitched roof, then you probably won't have many issues due to the snow load. I don't know what the code is designed for, but the steeper the roof the more load it can handle. If you have a flat pitched roof on a ranch, then you might run in to some issues.

As for ice damns, you will have these form when there is inadequate insulation or air flow underneath the roof. A modern roof should be designed to be completely insulated underneath the entire roofing surface or there should be no insulation whatsoever and proper soffit and cap vents to keep the entire roof at the same temperature.

An ice damn will form when you have a roof that is receiving heat from the interior of the building, and then the water melts and flows down the roofing material, if it then hits a colder area of the roof (Like the eaves, which aren't above any living space) the water will freeze. Eventually the mass of ice present will cause the water to backup underneath the shingles causing leaks.

My fathers old cape would get minor ice dams on the southern exposure that would melt after a few days of sun. The northern exposure would get massive ice dams that caused a fair amount of interior damage. You only need to clear the snow 3-5 feet above the cold section of the roof to prevent the ice from getting out of control.

Here is a link that explains a little bit more.

http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/phot...557572,00.html

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by MGWillia

Ok, educate the new guy. How about a little information on best practices, prevention, companies, whatever. This is new to me and I covet your experience. Speak to me.

Not the previous renters to you buying, but the ones before them shoveled or raked the various sections of roof for most storms because of the ice dams and snow build up. It was a constant battle. I fear you may be in the position of having to use a roof rake for each storm for the rest of this year.

Then you may want to think about a new roof, perhaps metal, where the snow will slide off easily.

Good luck.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by MGWillia

Ok, educate the new guy. How about a little information on best practices, prevention, companies, whatever. This is new to me and I covet your experience. Speak to me.

If your doors and windows become hard to open & close it could be a sign that there is too much snow on your roof.
Another sign of too much snow on your roof is when the roof becomes the same level as your foundation.

[Denny Crane]

I roof rake immediately following each storm, however my theory is if you keep it simple and make it a 10 minute project instead of an hour you will more than likely keep doing it. I only roof rake the first 2 feet of the roof near the soffit so when the sun hits the shingles they will warm up and keep the melting snow flowing off the roof. If you wait a day or two it may be too late and an ice berm may have already formed. Ice dams happen when subsequent water melts behind the berm and has nowhere to go but backwards, under the shingles.

If you are experiencing interior water damage and need some roof relief I would first recommend raking all the snow behind the berms. I have used ice melt loaded into socks and placed them vertically on the berm that will melt a channel for the water behind to flow. Some people will take a more aggressive approach and chop channels with and ax, but be careful.

Down the road when it's time for a new roof I believe building code for roofing calls for 3' of water and ice shield(membrane) under the shingles, some roofers will install 6', some may do the whole roof depending on the pitch. I would also install this in valleys and up any cheek wall under the siding.

Avoid these headaches and take the 10 minutes to rake!!
DC

[wynndog]

Just had Jeremy remove snow from 1/2 my roof and drive. Found him on Alton forum. Very good $100 a roof,or $50 1/2 roof. He is a contractor in the summer,knows his stuff & I was very glad to recommend them. 603-7287541
Wynn told you to call!!

[DickR]

Another good starting place for reading about ice dam prevention is by doing a search on "ice dam" on www.greenbuildingadvisor.com. The first that pops up is a good summary: http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/...and-insulation.

[Merrymeeting]

Originally Posted by MGWillia

I can see that many of the places around me don't seem to need it, and some have people who keep coming around to rake them. My issue is we have a LOT of ice dams going. HUGE icicles, some going from roof to ground. They have obviously caused past damage. So I'm thinking I am NOT one of the lucky ones that can just look out the window and enjoy it.

If you have a lot of ice dams and huge icicles now, then your problem is definitely one of a roof that is too warm (i.e., lack of insulation).

Ice dams and icicles normally form in the coming weeks when the daytime temps allow the sun to start melting the snow on the roofs. Then the temps drop in the evening and the melt refreezes. This cycle continues for days, causing the dams and icicles to get bigger and bigger.

However, given the temps we've been having, you should have few or no icicles at this point (eg: I see none on my house, despite plenty of snow up there. But I'm lucky in that I have a new, well-insulated house to help keep things that way) If you look at SIKSUKR's picture, you don't see any there either.

Not much you can do about all this right now other than somehow getting the snow off the roof so the sun can do it's work with melting. But you should look into the heat escape issue before next winter.

[Denny Crane]

Just because you have icicles doesn't mean you have ice dams behind them. It depends on the pitch of the roof or, if you have gutters, they're solid with ice but were installed correctly because the water is flowing over the front. If the pitch of the roof is steep enough the melting water is moving, a good thing, making icicles. If you don't have much pitch on your roof there is a berm behind it. You won't know until you poke with a roof rake and see what is up the roof behind the icicles.
DC

[MGWillia]

I would thank you individually, but I guess there is a limit to how many times a day you can thank folks. Lots of good info and advice. I will say, when I said I looked around and didn't see much on the other houses, I am the only heated house. The rest are summer places.. lol.

[DickR]

Originally Posted by Merrymeeting

If you have a lot of ice dams and huge icicles now, then your problem is definitely one of a roof that is too warm (i.e., lack of insulation).

Agreed, warmth reaching the roof deck is causing the melting, but even with adequate insulation, air leakage from the heated space below will carry interior heat through porous insulation (fiberglass, cellulose), and that more often is the problem. First do an air sealing job to prevent the leaks, then, if there is room, add insulation.

[MAXUM]

Really it depends on your situation.

Even with adequate pitch, snow load can become a problem when you're looking at feet of snow especially if it becomes saturated with moisture. Yes there are building codes that take under consideration such things, but depending on the age of the building and how it was constructed there are like anything else limitations to the engineering that was done even with modern construction.

[chocophile]

Our seasonal camp was built in the 40s with a shallow pitched roof and rafters that are non-dimensional 2x4s. When we bought the property the inspector we hired advised us to shovel the roof if there's more than 2-3 feet of snow, especially at the end of winter when it's more likely to rain.

That's what we do.

About 10 years ago there were several buildings in NH that caved in from the snow load.

I agree that newer buildings are designed to handle the load, and many older well-built structures have been ok.

[BroadHopper]

You will notice they did not use as much stringers as they do today. And there is very little insulation and ventilation.
The family cottage was covered with slate roofing. It was heavy but the snow and ice slide right off!
Best advise for older construction is a metal roof. This will help the snow and ice slide off better.

[Fargo]

Those ice dams are created by heat loss. You need an energy audit. Contact your utility company, they have programs and rebates to help pay for energy improvements. No reason to chop ice off the roof each season.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

You will notice they did not use as much stringers as they do today.

Stairs are collapsing under snow loads also?

[MeredithMan]

I have had this happen before and the goal is to contain the damage once the water is inside. If the water starts dripping through the ceiling, drill a small hole, (1/4", and recommend a battery drill, to minimize chances of electrocution ), and let the water drain out into a bucket. You want to get it out of the ceiling and stop it from spreading and try to contain the damage. Don't worry about the hole in the ceiling, as it will have to be repaired anyway as a result of the water drip damage.

[MGWillia]

Originally Posted by MeredithMan

I have had this happen before and the goal is to contain the damage once the water is inside. If the water starts dripping through the ceiling, drill a small hole, (1/4", and recommend a battery drill, to minimize chances of electrocution ), and let the water drain out into a bucket. You want to get it out of the ceiling and stop it from spreading and try to contain the damage. Don't worry about the hole in the ceiling, as it will have to be repaired anyway as a result of the water drip damage.

That was the first order of business. But thanks for making sure I didn't "dummy out"

[SteveA]

Originally Posted by wynndog

Just had Jeremy remove snow from 1/2 my roof and drive. Found him on Alton forum. Very good $100 a roof,or $50 1/2 roof. He is a contractor in the summer,knows his stuff & I was very glad to recommend them. 603-7287541
Wynn told you to call!!

THANK YOU wynndog!!!!

Jeremy and his worker just left after doing the roof at my house in Gilford. They are amazing, and did a fantastic job! I would recommend them to anyone that is worried about the snow on their roof.

Nice guy, also!

[MGWillia]

Originally Posted by SteveA

THANK YOU wynndog!!!!

Jeremy and his worker just left after doing the roof at my house in Gilford. They are amazing, and did a fantastic job! I would recommend them to anyone that is worried about the snow one their roof.

Nice guy, also!

But Yes, thanks! I had Jeremy come over last week and he took about 3 feet off our roof. Now we will see how much is back while we were gone.

[BroadHopper]

Here are some pictures of new construction based on 2009 RBC. Just looking in your attic space and compare to these shots and you will see a huge difference!

[fatlazyless]

....and, once you get that snow raked off the roof, depending where it lands, you now could have a snow removal job for either a shovel or a snow-blower or both...which ties in to Lowes-Gilford having no snow-blowers in stock....because they were all....maybe 25-machines...were all trucked down to a Lowes store in Massachusetts.

For $599, Lowes sells a Troy-bilt 24" two-stage, self-propelled snowblower which is a real good machine, capable to remove the heavy snow at the top of the driveway where the town plow has piled it on, plus it only weighs about 150-lbs which makes it easier to get it up and onto a single step on a walkway or a deck or something.

For more money, Lowes has Husqvarna snow-blowers, made in Sweden, with heated handle grips, which look to be extremely well made....probably a more capable machine than the Troy-bilt....just judging by the construction.

Anyone have experience with a 24 or 28" Husqvarna snow-blower?

Could well be that one will have to wait until September before Lowes-Gilford has any snow-blowers in stock again? Maybe you want to be locking your snow-blower to a tree!

[AC2717]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

....and, once you get that snow raked off the roof, depending where it lands, you now could have a snow removal job for either a shovel or a snow-blower or both...which ties in to Lowes-Gilford having no snow-blowers in stock....because they were all....maybe 25-machines...were all trucked down to a Lowes store in Massachusetts.

For $599, Lowes sells a Troy-bilt 24" two-stage, self-propelled snowblower which is a real good machine, capable to remove the heavy snow at the top of the driveway where the town plow has piled it on, plus it only weighs about 150-lbs which makes it easier to get it up and onto a single step on a walkway or a deck or something.

For more money, Lowes has Husqvarna snow-blowers, made in Sweden, with heated handle grips, which look to be extremely well made....probably a more capable machine than the Troy-bilt....just judging by the construction.

Anyone have experience with a 24 or 28" Husqvarna snow-blower?

Could well be that one will have to wait until September before Lowes-Gilford has any snow-blowers in stock again?

These machines are of lower quality than the same model's sold at the local garden supply and/or equipment store. The raw materials used to build these are not the same quality which is way a Husq at Lowes is cheaper than the one at the equipment store

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Here are some pictures of new construction based on 2009 RBC. Just looking in your attic space and compare to these shots and you will see a huge difference!

I don't think the code calls for anything like that GP laminated roof ridge board.
What was the reason for such a huge board with the rafters notched to sit against them? And the roof rafters are also real wide.
Looks to be over designed to me.

[BroadHopper]

Rafters notched to sit against huge boards is because the windows are fitted into rafters. The top floor has full windows on all four walls. with the fourth wall as a spare bedroom. Much like a T formation.

The house was designed for energy efficiency by a well known architect that also design for Benson Woods. The house achieve 5+ rating and so far in the past four years, heated and cooled solely on the Mitsubishi split system. There is a backup baseboard propane heating system which was never used. The home was featured in various national magazines in the US and Canada. I'm not the owner, but the project manager.

As for the ridge boards, original plans were for steel I-Beams. I found the ridge boards from Canada to be cheaper and stronger.

Here is another project I am currently working on. This is a modular home built by Benson Woods. I think this is what you have in mind. What you see are self contained slabs between the rafters. This home is extremely energy efficient. With a Southern exposure to the sun, the owner may well do away with heating altogether! He does have propane backup.

[Rusty]

Thanks BroadHopper

Nice architectural designed structures but it must cost a fortune with design costs and labor to build it. I like things simple that meets the code. What the bones look like in a structure never did appeal to me.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by AC2717

These machines are of lower quality than the same model's sold at the local garden supply and/or equipment store. The raw materials used to build these are not the same quality which is way a Husq at Lowes is cheaper than the one at the equipment store

Not true, all snow blowers are produced on the same assembly line. Box stores only have access to certain models. Dealers can get all the models as well as the ones sold at box stores.

Here is what Ariens states and all the other snow blower manufaturers do the same thing:

http://ariens.custhelp.com/app/answe...vs.-home-depot

[AC2717]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Not true, all snow blowers are produced on the same assembly line. Box stores only have access to certain models. Dealers can get all the models as well as the ones sold at box stores.

Here is what Ariens states and all the other snow blower manufaturers do the same thing:

http://ariens.custhelp.com/app/answe...vs.-home-depot

that has changed from when they first started selling in big box stores
and while I agree with you in your statement now, my thing would be are those models and quality as good as the other ones at authorized dealers, if I were purchasing I would weigh pros and cons of each model

thank you for the link to update myself

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by AC2717

that has changed from when they first started selling in big box stores
and while I agree with you in your statement now, my thing would be are those models and quality as good as the other ones at authorized dealers, if I were purchasing I would weigh pros and cons of each model

thank you for the link to update myself

Dealers will sell you the same model that a big box store will but dealers want to sell you the bigger models that have more bells and whistles. Dealers don't sell the volume that big box stores do so they have to make a higher profit on each one. Although dealers will sell a low end model about the same price as a box store will...they just don't like to carry them.
Low end models are just that, low end and they don't stand up to being used commercially.

[BroadHopper]

I have used their products for decades. You will never find them in the box stores. Most of the commercial landscapers used the products and swear by them. They are expensive, not all landscapers have them.

My 524 (5hp 24" wide) snow blower I bought in 1981 is my workhorse. Just recently my neighbor borrowed my machine because his brand spanking new Toro 8hp 26 wide (>$1000) died in the last storm! Oh well.

I also have a 21" self propelled 2 cycle Hi vac lawnmower that I bought in 1980. It has the thatcher attachment and ninja blade for mulching. Another work horse!

Neither one of them are commercial grade, although they could be!

Because they are expensive, I have seen used ones pop up at Snapper dealers, EBay or Craiglist. Worth a shot!

[Merrymeeting]

At the same time, it often depends on how the equipment is used and cared for.

I have a 30+ year old "Noma" snowblower (now Murray, used to be OEM for Craftsman, John Deere, and others). Still starts on first pull and works amazingly well for a snow blower that's been heavily used for more than 30 NE winters.

Purchased at Home Depot as a "cheap" model when we were new homeowners and didn't have much to spare.

[2DAMTS]

I was only 12, 30 years ago.........was Home Depot even around back then?
I think I can recall the first one in nashua around the Time I was 17 which would have been 25 years ago....😜

[Rusty]

Home Depot in Rochester, NH was built in 2001.

Home Depot in Nashua, NH was built in 1990.

[2DAMTS]

Wow, Ty Rusty. And I thought my memory was gone a few years ago haha

[Rusty]

Home Quarters was one of the first Big Box stores in this area. They kind of fizzled out and Home Depot came to this area.

[PaugusBayFireFighter]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Lowes-Gilford having no snow-blowers in stock....because they were all....maybe 25-machines...were all trucked down to a Lowes store in Massachusetts.

For $599, Lowes sells a Troy-bilt 24" two-stage, self-propelled snowblower which is a real good machine, capable to remove the heavy snow at the top of the driveway where the town plow has piled it on, plus it only weighs about 150-lbs which makes it easier to get it up and onto a single step on a walkway or a deck or something.

The next OUT OF STOCK item will be sump pumps, especially eastern Mass. They are going to be talking about flooding soon, and it will be bad.

I bought that Troybilt model at Lowes last winter hoping it would get me through a season or two. I've abused this machine and it hasn't missed a beat. It doesn't owe me anything considering the amount of snow it has moved.

I bet after the good review it craps the bed on this next storm!

I'll take a well maintained 30 year old Ariens over most of the machines they sell today.

[SIKSUKR]

Here's a Snapper snowblower at Walmart.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/37468138?w...519711&veh=sem

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Here's a Snapper snowblower at Walmart.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/37468138?w...519711&veh=sem

My My My...The things we learn. It's hard to keep up with who sells what and what models they are selling.
I guess the only way for some companies to stay in business is to let the Big Box stores sell there merchandise.

They might come off the same assembly line but I'll bet they are at the very end of that line and take what's left over from the higher end models...maybe anyway???

[AC2717]

Originally Posted by Merrymeeting

At the same time, it often depends on how the equipment is used and cared for.

I have a 30+ year old "Noma" snowblower (now Murray, used to be OEM for Craftsman, John Deere, and others). Still starts on first pull and works amazingly well for a snow blower that's been heavily used for more than 30 NE winters.

Purchased at Home Depot as a "cheap" model when we were new homeowners and didn't have much to spare.

I have a 1986 Toro 7 horse snow blower, barley have to give it a full pull, has million hours on it and it is a beast in this weather. I had a 1996 Ariens that I wore out because I used to do MBTA platforms for 10 years. I would still have it but I decided spending $300 a year on it for 3 years in a row was not worth doing another year so I sold it, need a carb rebuild and all the springs that are impossible to get to on your own replaced. Wish I did it

But this toro I bought used at a small engine repair shop, one of the best purchases I made, wife thought I was nutzo

[jeffatsquam]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Here are some pictures of new construction based on 2009 RBC. Just looking in your attic space and compare to these shots and you will see a huge difference!

This last picture is showing a structural ridge this allows you to eliminate collar ties to have a more open space. They transfer all of the load of the roof, both live ( snow ) and dead load to the outside walls where the weight is transferred down the walls to the foundation.

Typically this is done with large built-up post hidden in the walls not by windows.

YIKES

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by jeffatsquam

This last picture is showing a structural ridge this allows you to eliminate collar ties to have a more open space. They transfer all of the load of the roof, both live ( snow ) and dead load to the outside walls where the weight is transferred down the walls to the foundation.

Typically this is done with large built-up post hidden in the walls not by windows.

YIKES

No offense to builders or owners of these structures, but for years roofs have been designed with a lot smaller rafters and ridge beams and have worked just fine. A small gusset or collar tie (close to the ridge so not to take too much head room) works just fine with me.
Sorry for the rant.

[Merrymeeting]

Originally Posted by 2DAMTS

I was only 12, 30 years ago.........was Home Depot even around back then?
I think I can recall the first one in nashua around the Time I was 17 which would have been 25 years ago....��

I was living in MA at the time, and yes, Home Depot, purchased in 1987. I still have the sales slip (ok, my math was off...not quite 30 years)

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by Merrymeeting

I was living in MA at the time, and yes, Home Depot, purchased in 1987. I still have the sales slip (ok, my math was off...not quite 30 years)

Close enough for me. Congratulation on keeping that Snowblower running all these years. Sometimes people will forget to perform maintenance on the auger gear box and it will lock up because of that. They are very hard to take apart and fix...IMO anyway.

[Happy Gourmand]

Originally Posted by PaugusBayFireFighter

The next OUT OF STOCK item will be sump pumps, especially eastern Mass. They are going to be talking about flooding soon, and it will be bad.

I bought that Troybilt model at Lowes last winter hoping it would get me through a season or two. I've abused this machine and it hasn't missed a beat. It doesn't owe me anything considering the amount of snow it has moved.

I bet after the good review it craps the bed on this next storm!

I'll take a well maintained 30 year old Ariens over most of the machines they sell today.

I bought an Ariens in 1974. Every 7 or 8 years I would take it back for service, but I did change the oil every 4 or 5 years. In 2008, I tried to start it, pulled the string and it broke....1st time it failed me in 34 years! Went to Nashua Outdoor Power Equipment and bot a new Ariens. The old one went to my Son's father in law and he's still using it. There may be some other really good machines out there but IMHO you can't beat an Ariens.

[Dad sold the C * C]

I have always been an Ariens guy. I will admit that some times I'm lax in preventative maintenance, but with a little attention you can get them going again during a storm. They just work! One thing I miss from my old one is the locking differential. But I like the new chute direction and deflector controls.

Now that said, a friend has a Honda 24" snowblower that I really like; this is used at a horse farm so it is either on a stone dust driveway or frozen yard and dirt. I like that the transmission is variable but just slides and not notched; you can keep moving and adjust speed. Good when working around fences, dogs or horses

[upthesaukee]

Back in the 1980's, Dad had an Ariens that belonged initially to his brother in law (my uncle), and had been bought back in the 70's.

Dad took it to several places because it would never start by setting the choke and pulling. But, give it a little psssssttttt of starting fluid, and it fired right up and would blow snow all day long. I used it often, and while it was a beast and heavy as all get out, it was a work horse.

After Dad died, and I moved out to upstate NY, mom ended up selling it to a family friend. It is still in use, and it just takes a psssssttttt of starting fluid to get it going.

With all this snow, I wish I still had it and a can of ether.

[8gv]

I'd bet there's a long list of proper maintenance for a snowblower but I have been consistent with only one item.

I put StaBil in every time the gas can gets filled.

It always starts and runs.

[fatlazyless]

... for about 15.87 I got myself a gallon of www.marvelmysteryoil.com at walmart...because I like the name....plus it is brite red, smells fantastic...like red peppermint...and comes in a brite red translucent plastic, see-through, bottle...and every time the car, snowblower, lawnmower, outboard gets gassed up....it also gets a hit of mystery oil into the gas....like a fine peppermint red wine to keep the engine running very happy...

... have thought about about taking a sip myself...but have yet to do that...after once getting a mouthful of gasoline about 45-years ago!

[8gv]

StaBil tasted pretty bad when I tried it. It got me started too...

[bclaker]

One Sunday when I lived in Barrington, I noticed an Ariens with a for sale sign on it in someone's yard when I was going for the paper. On the way back home, I stopped. It was in pieces, but it looked like everything was there. he wanted $25 for it. I offered $15 and he accepted. When I got home, I put it back together and replaced a broken throttle connection with a piece of coat hanger. It started right up and worked well for 15 years. It was still working when I moved to Laconia and I left it for the people that bought my house.

[Dad sold the C * C]

Marvel Mystery Oil saved my first Ariens snow blower.
A mouse had built a nest on the shaft that the "forward / reverse " wheel slides on. This makes the drive wheels go faster, slower and reverse. Well I was told to heat up some Mystery oil in a double boiler kind of rig ( very carefully of course ) and pour the warm oil on the rusty shaft. That resolved that problem. And yes it was red, but Mom wasn't so keen on the smell in the kitchen

[ghfromaltonbay]

My father's neighbor moved to Florida about 6 years ago and gave my father his 2-stage, 6.5 hp Ariens snowblower since Dad did a lot of repair work for this neighbor. The snowblower is a bear and was a real tough pull start even though the former owner was a big burly guy. Since Dad already has a big snowblower, he gave it to me and for $198 we got an electric starter which Dad installed. Instead of paying for the starter, Dad asked me if I would give him my little 2-cycle MVP snowblower in trade. I gladly took him up on the offer. That Ariens has worked great, even last year when we had a few 20+ inch snowfalls. I have 60 feet of walkways + an 80 foot driveway and that Ariens is worth it's weight in gold. Last year the sparkplug was replaced at the beginning of the season, and this year it started up on the first try. Thank you Dad, and also our former neighbor now retired to the Villages in FL. Using that machine builds muscles!

[MAXUM]

The snow blowers made today are all junk. I have a 30 year old Ariens and it is a beast. I'd stack that machine up any day against a new one. The nice thing is parts are still available for them.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

The snow blowers made today are all junk. I have a 30 year old Ariens and it is a beast. I'd stack that machine up any day against a new one. The nice thing is parts are still available for them.

If you don't have a new one, and haven't had one for 30 years, how do you know they are junk?
Did you take a survey of the news ones compared to the old ones?

IMO the newer snowblowers are far better then the older models. It's how you take of them just like anything else. Evidently you take care of yours and it runs good because of that. But I've seen older model Ariens that run like Sh*t.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by wynndog

Just had Jeremy remove snow from 1/2 my roof and drive. Found him on Alton forum. Very good $100 a roof,or $50 1/2 roof. He is a contractor in the summer,knows his stuff & I was very glad to recommend them. 603-7287541
Wynn told you to call!!

Thanks for the recommendation Wynndog! Called Jeremy last night and he came right over this morning to take care of me. While I wasn't worried about the roof collapsing, the snow built up so much it was blocking my satellite dish! We can't have that now can we!!!

While he was here I hired him to do some other shoveling tasks I would of had to do so all worked out very well! Now when my wife gets home I can show her how busy I was today shoveling!!

Thanks again!

Dan

[upthesaukee]

Hey, Dan, I think your wife reads the forum. Can you spell " busted"?

Sent from my GT-P5210 using Tapatalk

[fatlazyless]

http://www.husqvarna.com/us/products...rowers/st-224/

If my bingo numbers, all five numbers, all come in a big winner down at the Funspot Bingo Hall....the plan is to go get one of these Husqvarna 24" snowblowers at Lowe's just around next Christmas time .... buy it on Dec 26 ... and return it back to Lowe's three months later on March 25 .... because the heated handle grips do not get warm enough or something....ho-ho-ho....ha-ha-ha- ...ho-ho-ho....I should become a politician!

Weighing in at 199-lbs, it is not a light-weight machine, and seems like a heavy weight for a 24" machine. These Husqvarnas, made in Sweden, look to be real well constructed......and heated handle grips too......and free use for up to three months at Lowe's.....what's not to like......Lowe's and Husqvarna!


...or should I go big, and get the 27" model for two hundred more at 999.95(?) .... no.....24" is best for my little lot!


....just take a gander at the big unit with the treads like a tank....for $2500....that weighs in at 348-lbs.....yikes.....348-lbs! ....does it include a kitchen?

[AC2717]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

http://www.husqvarna.com/us/products...rowers/st-224/

If my bingo numbers, all five numbers, all come in a big winner down at the Funspot Bingo Hall....the plan is to go get one of these Husqvarna 24" snowblowers at Lowe's just around next Christmas time .... buy it on Dec 26 ... and return it back to Lowe's three months later on March 25 .... because the heated handle grips do not get warm enough or something....ho-ho-ho....ha-ha-ha- ...ho-ho-ho....I should become a politician!

Weighing in at 199-lbs, it is not a light-weight machine, and seems like a heavy weight for a 24" machine. These Husqvarnas, made in Sweden, look to be real well constructed......and heated handle grips too......and free use for up to three months at Lowe's.....what's not to like......Lowe's and Husqvarna!


...or should I go big, and get the 27" model for two hundred more at 999.95(?) .... no.....24" is best for my little lot!


....just take a gander at the big unit with the treads like a tank....for $2500....that weighs in at 348-lbs.....yikes.....348-lbs! ....does it include a kitchen?

are you serious, you are part of the reason we pay more for items

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

http://www.husqvarna.com/us/products...rowers/st-224/


...or should I go big, and get the 27" model for two hundred more at 999.95(?) ....

I think you should go whole hog and get the $2500 track drive unit. What do you have to lose, you're taking it back anyway so you might as well get the best.

When you take it back in 90 days you could tell them that track drive just didn't work out for you and will probably get a standard wheel unit next year.

You might as well get a couple of shovels and take everything back at the same time.

BTW... Lowes has free delivery so you might as well take advantage of that also.

[granitebox]

Wonderful. God Bless America.

[upthesaukee]

... for those who have been around a few years or more, we have already gone down this road with FLL.

I won't say it is trolling on his part, because he can't put his boat in the water yet, but....

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Rusty

If you don't have a new one, and haven't had one for 30 years, how do you know they are junk?
Did you take a survey of the news ones compared to the old ones?

IMO the newer snowblowers are far better then the older models. It's how you take of them just like anything else. Evidently you take care of yours and it runs good because of that. But I've seen older model Ariens that run like Sh*t.

When I bought mine I looked at new ones and I was unimpressed at how cheaply they are made. Has nothing to do with the way they run in fact I'll probably re-power mine at some point.

[Happy Gourmand]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

When I bought mine I looked at new ones and I was unimpressed at how cheaply they are made. Has nothing to do with the way they run in fact I'll probably re-power mine at some point.

When I replaced my 1974 Ariens in '08 for a slightly bigger one, they looked almost identical except for the additional upgrades that I got with the new one. I DO know that my new one won't last me as long as the old one because I'll be in FL in the winter before it turns 10!! By the way, my '74 and '08 both came with the Tecumseh engines, the later models come with Briggs and Stratton engines.

[fatlazyless]

Supposedly, the $599 Troy-bilt 24" self-propelled two stage, has the engine made by Honda....plus it has worked very good for about four seasons now....if it ain't broke....dunno replace it? Like, what's so good about a headlight and heated handle grips?

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Supposedly, the $599 Troy-bilt 24" self-propelled two stage, has the engine made by Honda....plus it has worked very good for about four seasons now....if it ain't broke....dunno replace it? Like, what's so good about a headlight and heated handle grips?

If that snow blower had a real Honda motor on it the engine alone would be worth $599 or more.

Troybilt is made by MTD and is nothing like the former company of days gone by, and the engine isn't a Honda it's a cheap Chinese clone called a Powermore. Like everything these days it's built to hit a price point with a limited life expectancy.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

If that snow blower had a real Honda motor on it the engine alone would be worth $599 or more.

Troybilt is made by MTD and is nothing like the former company of days gone by, and the engine isn't a Honda it's a cheap Chinese clone called a Powermore. Like everything these days it's built to hit a price point with a limited life expectancy.

Honda also make's a very "cheap" China made version of their motor as I have one on a inexpensive 7000 watt Sam's club generator I purchased for about $500.00. http://www.samsclub.com/sams/black-m...prod3550002.ip

It's not nearly as quiet or as smooth and it's not even in the same league quality wise as the more expensive 7000 watt inverter generator they make that I also have for around $4000.00!!

[fatlazyless]

...oh well....would I buy this $599 Troy-bilt again, after having it for about four winters....yes, I would....it starts-runs-works....and so far this year....have never had to use the electric starter as it's always started up with the pull start....and it turns out that it weighs about 200-lbs as opposed to 150-lbs as posted earlier....but then again having heated handle grips seems like a super-duper idea....will just have to use this one until it is no longer working....being a thrifty NH-person......you know that snow-blowers seem to last for years and years and years....sort of like old BMW motorcycles from the 1960's....plus they can be repaired too


The Ariens compact 24" snowblower costs about $799 ....same price as the Husqvarna 24" ..... and most likely that both machines are more capable than the Troybilt 24" for $599....but that's the way the snow goes?

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Honda also make's a very "cheap" China made version of their motor as I have one on a inexpensive 7000 watt Sam's club generator I purchased for about $500.00. http://www.samsclub.com/sams/black-m...prod3550002.ip

It's not nearly as quiet or as smooth and it's not even in the same league quality wise as the more expensive 7000 watt inverter generator they make that I also have for around $4000.00!!

Well Dan you're kind of clouding the picture here a tad.

Yes a Honda generator is going to cost more because it's a Honda, however you're also adding the "inverter" option which adds significant cost to a comparable unit. Then again that Honda generator will put out rock solid clean stable power as opposed to a non-inverter of any make or model.

Got to be careful with these inexpensive generators, sure they will put out power but usually pretty dirty and typically unstable especially with load oscillation. Not good for sensitive electronics.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

...oh well....would I buy this $599 Troy-bilt again, after having it for about four winters....yes, I would....it starts-runs-works....and so far this year....have never had to use the electric starter as it's always started up with the pull start....and it turns out that it weighs about 200-lbs as opposed to 150-lbs as posted earlier....but then again having heated handle grips seems like a super-duper idea....will just have to use this one until it is no longer working....being a thrifty NH-person......you know that snow-blowers seem to last for years and years and years....sort of like old BMW motorcycles from the 1960's....plus they can be repaired too


The Ariens compact 24" snowblower costs about $799 ....same price as the Husqvarna 24" ..... and most likely that both machines are more capable than the Troybilt 24" for $599....but that's the way the snow goes?

FatLazyless:

I thought you always returned your snowblowers in late March each year. How can you possible have a machine that is 4-years old?

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Well Dan you're kind of clouding the picture here a tad.

Yes a Honda generator is going to cost more because it's a Honda, however you're also adding the "inverter" option which adds significant cost to a comparable unit. Then again that Honda generator will put out rock solid clean stable power as opposed to a non-inverter of any make or model.

Got to be careful with these inexpensive generators, sure they will put out power but usually pretty dirty and typically unstable especially with load oscillation. Not good for sensitive electronics.

Generators aside, my point was Honda makes both cheap, inexpensive motors and high quality, expensive motors and has no problem putting their name on either.

And just when I thought I had seen it all... I recently purchased a "Snap On" tool that was made in China!! No kidding!...

Dan

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Generators aside, my point was Honda makes both cheap, inexpensive motors and high quality, expensive motors and has no problem putting their name on either.

And just when I thought I had seen it all... I recently purchased a "Snap On" tool that was made in China!! No kidding!...

Dan

Could you take a photo of the tool showing the Snap On name and also the China stamp.

Thank you

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Could you take a photo of the tool showing the Snap On name and also the China stamp.

Thank you

Here you go. Look under details for where it's assembled and made.

http://www.samsclub.com/sams/3pc-mul...ledetect=false

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Here you go. Look under details for where it's assembled and made.

http://www.samsclub.com/sams/3pc-mul...ledetect=false

Thank you
I always thought Snap-on was made in the USA...I guess not.
I never buy them anyway because of the price.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Thank you
I always thought Snap-on was made in the USA...I guess not.
I never buy them anyway because of the price.

I thought the same but apparently in recent years a lot of their tools are being made overseas like China and Spain. All you have to do is go to their website and check out country of origin under each tool.

I guess nothing is sacred anymore...

Dan