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Old 11-23-2019, 07:40 AM   #1
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Default Gilford Tax Rate

The Gilford tax rate dropped 6.9%. Unfortunately when your assessment goes up 11% the math doesn't work in your favor!

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...83c1f6345.html
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Old 11-23-2019, 08:08 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by TiltonBB View Post
The Gilford tax rate dropped 6.9%. Unfortunately when your assessment goes up 11% the math doesn't work in your favor!

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...83c1f6345.html

Thanks,

However, that article says the valuations went up 14.6%.... Whatever it is the math still doesn’t work!

Dan
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Old 11-23-2019, 08:09 AM   #3
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Raise the pants and lower the shirt tactic. Typical government.


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Old 11-23-2019, 08:12 AM   #4
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Default Hee-haw

Moultonboro rate down 7.3%, ALL waterfront assessments UP 16.66% across the board.

Can't wait for election day.
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Old 11-23-2019, 08:27 AM   #5
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In the past when the assessment has gone up, the rates have come down so that it isn't much different than a normal year. But this year it seems all the towns raised the assessment but didn't lower the rates accordingly. As I have said before they will never have enough money. But people keep voting to spend locally anyway. We don't have a lot of say in state and country tax rates.
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Old 11-23-2019, 09:43 AM   #6
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If revenue other than property tax is projected to be the same or better, then the only conclusion is that spending is up. Meaning that our actual tax bills would be up with or without a revaluation.

Relative to the 14.6 % increase in net valuation:

The municipal portion of the tax rate is down only 8.8% meaning a significant increase in spending.

The county portion of the tax rate is down 11.7 % meaning a moderate increase in spending.

The state education portion of the tax rate is down 13.4 % meaning a minor increase in spending.

The local education portion of the tax rate is down only 3.3% meaning a major increase in spending. The local education portion is $8.11 out of $15.86 or 51% of the total tax bill.

As I don't follow Gilford town and school annual meeting results, I don't know what caused the big bump in town and school spending.
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Old 11-23-2019, 10:05 AM   #7
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Thanks,

However, that article says the valuations went up 14.6%.... Whatever it is the math still doesn’t work!

Dan
I just meant the town assessed value on my Gilford property went up 11%.

I did see the total town assessment was up 14.6% Mine has gone up quite a bit in the last three years.
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Old 11-23-2019, 11:39 AM   #8
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I just meant the town assessed value on my Gilford property went up 11%.

I did see the total town assessment was up 14.6% Mine has gone up quite a bit in the last three years.
Yes, both our island and mainland properties went up about the same as you.... should we feel lucky we are below the average 14.6%??
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Old 11-23-2019, 12:12 PM   #9
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All New Hampshire property tax payers come out as BIG WINNERS ….

because all NH property taxes up to ten thousand dollars get deducted off your

April 15 federal income tax ….. and you do your part to make America great

again!

Over $10,000 ..... you is an even bigger WINNER ..... because you is definitely helping to move the country forward ... big time.


………… ……. …... ………..


And ..... we all salute you!
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Old 11-23-2019, 03:09 PM   #10
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Ahhh. You know Thanksgiving is coming when the annual whine post about taxes being unfair is initiated.
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Old 11-24-2019, 07:04 AM   #11
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The evaluation for our house in Center Harbor (non waterfront) dropped a little. But the spending jumped and our tax bill went up about 6%.

The "why" is much more complex. Perhaps labor costs in an extremely tight labor market went up. You can rail at selectmen all you want about that but it is a fact of life around here. Selectmen are not going to start firing people to avoid a 6% tax increase. Sometimes there are one time or short term costs that need to be dealt with that forces spending up.

It's just not that simple to say the town leaders are spendthrifts, although that IS something that needs to be watched for.

As to the evaluations, those are very formulaic and not directly in town hands. They hire people to do the work. The work is done according to broadly accepted practices based on available data and the the results are what they are. Sure, mistakes are made on individual properties but it is very unlikely that the overall process is going to change. When you see across the board town valuations go up XX% it is because the formulas and analysis tells the town the cumulative value of the town has increased that much. They then apply it over all the assessments. Unless they do a complete reevaluation to zero in individually on all houses (more expensive process so not done all the time), that is how they keep tabs on current valuation.

As to taking my taxes off my income tax, no go. I can't declare enough to exceed what I get for the standard deduction. The good news is that our standard deduction increases by $400 in 2019 so that deducts MORE than our property tax increase. Isn't America Great?!!!
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Old 11-24-2019, 08:17 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
All New Hampshire property tax payers come out as BIG WINNERS ….
because all NH property taxes up to ten thousand dollars get deducted off your
April 15 federal income tax ….. and you do your part to make America great
again!
………… ……. …... ………..
Maybe. But not all New Hampshire tax payers.

Many waterfront property owners have their NH house as a second home. When you add the high NH real estate tax to the tax of your other home, in many, probably most, situations it puts you well over the allowed $10,000 real estate tax deduction.

So, despite the constant cry that the Trump tax changes unfairly benefited the "wealthy" the loss of this deduction directly impacted those fortunate enough to own a second home. (And by fortunate, I mean those that in many cases, when it was not something passed down from the family, chose to work hard enough so that a second home was even a possibility) Even those who inherited a waterfront home have to keep up with the maintenance and taxes and those are substantial expenses.

This is not a complaint. It is a nice problem to have but the tax changes resulted in the loss of a substantial tax deduction to many people that is rarely discussed, especially by the main stream media.
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Old 11-24-2019, 09:09 AM   #13
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With the loss of the deduction above ten thousand dollars, paying the property tax becomes paying with real money, and it seems like more waterfront addresses are getting listed, and sold.

Some go to builders who remove the old, build a fancy big new house, and sell it for big money. Others go to new long time owners who stick around and make improvements.

You drive down the road and one day, a new 'for sale' sign has done showed up, out front an old water front cottage or house .... seems like it has picked up some speed, around these here parts .......a-yuh?
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Old 11-24-2019, 09:25 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
With the loss of the deduction above ten thousand dollars, paying the property tax becomes paying with real money, and it seems like more waterfront addresses are getting listed, and sold.

Some go to builders who remove the old, build a fancy big new house, and sell it for big money. Others go to new long time owners who stick around and make improvements.

You drive down the road and one day, a new 'for sale' sign has done showed up, out front an old water front cottage or house .... seems like it has picked some speed, around these here parts .......a-yuh?
Well, FLL, this is what happens when you vote for stuff like this:

What the Town of Meredith has built and created with their old historic Benjamin Smith library, their new police station, their new fire station, and their new community center is town money very, very well spent so three cheers for Meredith for their excellent library, police, fire, and community public buildings ...... hut-hut-hut-hut!

This costs money, in turn makes your taxes go up. DUH? So don't complain you did it to yourself and one day your way of thinking will tax you out of your own place.... so keep it up.... hut-hut-hut.
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Old 11-24-2019, 09:40 AM   #15
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Well, FLL, this is what happens when you vote for stuff like this:

What the Town of Meredith has built and created with their old historic Benjamin Smith library, their new police station, their new fire station, and their new community center is town money very, very well spent so three cheers for Meredith for their excellent library, police, fire, and community public buildings ...... hut-hut-hut-hut!

This costs money, in turn makes your taxes go up. DUH? So don't complain you did it to yourself and one day your way of thinking will tax you out of your own place.... so keep it up.... hut-hut-hut.
Wait, isn't the deduction that FLL lamenting a federal legislation?

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Old 11-24-2019, 09:58 AM   #16
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..... sounds like a double-trouble, double-whammy what with the town spending going up ..... and the federal deduction going down or going limited to a $10,000-limit.

Seems like the Walmart side of the lake keeps getting smaller, every year, as the old cottages with 2x4" walls stuffed with old newspapers from 1952 for insulation get demolished and replaced with a 2.5-mil adirondack mcmansion.
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Old 11-24-2019, 10:11 AM   #17
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Wait, isn't the deduction that FLL lamenting a federal legislation?

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Indeed it is... BUT how much is paid in property tax is controlled directly at the local level by how much the residents allow the town to spend. Cause and effect which seems to be something some can't seem to link together.

Plus - lost in the conversation is the other federal tax changes that offset this cap limit. Typical ignorant induced selective outrage.

Last year I hit that property tax cap so according to FLL my taxes went up right? Nope my federal taxes were lower. The increase in the standard deduction more than made up the difference. However it would be nice if town residents would stop voting for bloated budgets and improvements that are financially irresponsible. 7+ million for a DPW building for the town of Meredith is absolutely abhorrent. That could have easily be done for a fraction of that cost.
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Old 11-24-2019, 10:51 AM   #18
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I am very happy with the services Meredith provides for my tax dollars !
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Old 11-25-2019, 04:34 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiltonBB View Post
The Gilford tax rate dropped 6.9%. Unfortunately when your assessment goes up 11% the math doesn't work in your favor!

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...83c1f6345.html
Better if or when you are going to sell
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Old 11-26-2019, 01:52 PM   #20
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Default A Way To Keep Your Property Taxes Down

One thing that I have found a lot of people who complain about their property taxes have in common?

They didn't bother to attend town/school district meeting or vote. I understand that some can't vote as they aren't residents of the town, but I have talked with a lot of people in my town about their taxes and I'd have to say that more than half didn't vote. (Yes, my 'data' is anecdotal, but it is what I have noticed over the past few years.)

Even non-residents can attend town and school district meetings and voice their opinion. They are, after all, taxpayers and have a right to speak. The only thing they can't do is vote. But you'd be surprised at how often speaking out at the meetings can affect town and school spending, particularly if the speaker makes a good case about one warrant article or another.

I know I haven't cared for how much school spending in Gilford has increased even as the school population has been shrinking. (I don't know how many times a spending increase has been called a spending cut when in reality the only thing that was cut was the amount of the increase.) I haven't voted in favor of a single school budget in years.
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Old 11-26-2019, 04:21 PM   #21
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Weekend Pundit, you are exactly right.
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Old 11-27-2019, 10:02 AM   #22
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Default Post #6?

Are you saying the same thing that TiltonBB said in post #1?

Otherwise- a tax rate going down doesn't indicate an increase in spending- just the opposite.
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Old 11-27-2019, 12:50 PM   #23
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Are you saying the same thing that TiltonBB said in post #1?

Otherwise- a tax rate going down doesn't indicate an increase in spending- just the opposite.
Due to a town wide revaluation, the net valuation (sum of all assessments) went up 14.6%. If all spending and other revenue stayed flat then the tax rate would go down by 14.6% to collect the same overall tax revenue as last year.

However the tax rate only went down by 6.9% so a lot more $$ will be collected.

With individual assessments going up more than the decrease in tax rate, average tax bills will be up.

If there had been no town wide revaluation then you would be correct that a decrease in tax rate would indicate decreased spending.

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Old 11-28-2019, 10:12 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by jeffk View Post
The evaluation for our house in Center Harbor (non
The good news is that our standard deduction increases by $400 in 2019 so that deducts MORE than our property tax increase. Isn't America Great?!!!
Do you know if this is clearly expressed on the tax return forms?
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Old 11-30-2019, 12:59 PM   #25
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Default Clearly explained?

For me, the IRS instructions try to be precise, and in the end fail to give a short summary. You have to add up your deductions and compare to the standard deduction. Looking at your 2018 return will tell you since this was all in effect in 2018. For most of us, I'd guess our deductions are comparable from year to year unless there is something like a big medical expense or such.

A CPA might review your previous years and suggest some strategies.
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Old 11-30-2019, 01:24 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
All New Hampshire property tax payers come out as BIG WINNERS ….

because all NH property taxes up to ten thousand dollars get deducted off your

April 15 federal income tax ….. and you do your part to make America great

again!

Over $10,000 ..... you is an even bigger WINNER ..... because you is definitely helping to move the country forward ... big time.


………… ……. …... ………..


And ..... we all salute you!
Lucky you!! I haven't been able to use the long form since I owned my home without a mortgage. Course mortgage and tax deductions aren't subsidized by someone else.
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Old 12-02-2019, 05:32 PM   #27
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Default Tax bills

Gilford tax bills came in today's mail. The camp dropped substantially, boat slip went way up, but it was, of course, a much lower value. I'd have to look to see what the condo common land assessment change was. Net was several hundred dollars in my favor. Condo dues increased, so overall, I'm probably even. That's not bad when it comes to the tax man.
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Old 12-02-2019, 06:09 PM   #28
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Our Welch island camp assessment went up 8.1% and the tax rate went down 6.9% so our tax bill is up by a modest amount. Of course the tax on our modest island camp in Gilford is 2 times the tax on our pretty nice house in Alton. The difference between a spendthrift town and a frugal town.

If the Gilford net valuation went up 14.6 % I am wondering who got hit really hard. Mainland water front? Commercial property?
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Old 12-03-2019, 05:17 PM   #29
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The BEST way to figure your standard deduction is to follow Publication 501- there are so many variables between single, married, head of household (plus other filing modes), as well as over 65 OR blind, over 65 AND blind, you or/and your spouse- and on and on.

Another note- isn't the actual tax payment savings created by your tax bracket, not the entire, extra $400.00 increase in the standard deduction?
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Old 12-03-2019, 07:14 PM   #30
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The BEST way to figure your standard deduction is to follow Publication 501- there are so many variables between single, married, head of household (plus other filing modes), as well as over 65 OR blind, over 65 AND blind, you or/and your spouse- and on and on.

Another note- isn't the actual tax payment savings created by your tax bracket, not the entire, extra $400.00 increase in the standard deduction?
You are making it too complicated. The base standard deduction is adjusted yearly based on inflation. They announce the change every year. As far as I know, neither being blind or over 65 is indexed to inflation. Further, except the year you turn 65, the status doesn't change. Mostly you are blind or you are not. Also, your filing status probably doesn't change. If you claimed married last year, you probably will this year.

On top of all that, when I gave my example it was for ME. I know blindness, age, and filing status claimed are stable for my return. I know the standard deduction for my claimed filing status is increasing by $400 this year.

Further, I am not talking about less TAX being paid. The prior discussion was about how much of the tax you can DEDUCT (and limits). IF I itemized, I would be able to claim $200 more, the amount of the tax increase. However, the standard deduction is going up $400, twice as much. I never claimed I was getting a refund equal to my tax increase. As you say, the amount of money actually saved in taxes varies based on bracket and other factors. However, I am fairly confident that deducting an extra $200 will save me a bit of extra money in taxes as well.

And mostly I was just tweaking FLL who was griping about the limits on SALT taxes.

BTW, note that the SALT limits also apply to state and local INCOME taxes, neither of which NH has. You CAN deduct any NH interest and dividend tax you have to pay. No capital gains tax in NH.
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Old 12-03-2019, 08:17 PM   #31
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Our Welch island camp assessment went up 8.1% and the tax rate went down 6.9% so our tax bill is up by a modest amount. Of course the tax on our modest island camp in Gilford is 2 times the tax on our pretty nice house in Alton. The difference between a spendthrift town and a frugal town.

If the Gilford net valuation went up 14.6 % I am wondering who got hit really hard. Mainland water front? Commercial property?
The 2018 tax rate in Alton was $13.99 and in Gilford $17.04, a $3.05 difference, about 20%. So most of 2 times the tax cost is coming from a greater value of your "modest island camp", not necessarily a spendthrift town.

I used to have 2 houses in NH, a small, older ranch in Moultonborough and a house in Hudson that was brand new, 4 times the size, a two car garage, and an inground pool. The Moultonborough house was valued at TWICE the Hudson house. Yet the Hudson tax rate was almost 3 times that of Moultonborough so I paid more taxes in Hudson. The combined property valuation of both towns in 2018 was about $3 billion. Hudson paid 5 times the local school rate per 1000 and twice as much municipal.

Everything is relative and lake property valuation is a major driver in the the tax paid. A small house on the lake is worth a lot more than a big, nice house off the lake. The number of students in the school system has a big impact on the local school tax portion.
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Old 12-03-2019, 08:18 PM   #32
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Default Tax rate

Not Gilford specific, but taxes in general. It looks like with the IRS and all the gymnastics associated with what is, and what is not, a deduction, that pretty soon we will all be under the tax program that used to be talked about in a joking manner - How much did you make? Send it in!
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