Shopping for new car time, opinions on dealerships wanted.

Lucy Goose · 05-10-2011, 07:58 PM

So the dreaded shopping for a new vehicle begins unexpectedly. We had thought that our car which only had 86000k on it would have lasted a few more years but...

So, anyone who wants to chime in on experience with dealerships up in this area please feel free. We are looking for a commuter car that will get really good gas mileage and not looking to spend a lot of money since we were not expecting this at this time. We have always bought our cars in southern NH so wondering what everyone thinks of the dealerships up here?

Thanks in advance!

Lucy Goose

upthesaukee · 05-10-2011, 08:43 PM

I bought my 2010 Toyota Corolla from Irwin Toyota. Loved the treatment I got buying the car, my service (two years / 24000 miles free routine maintenance) has been great, and I have started bringing my wife's Trailblazer there.

PM me and I will give you my salesperson's name.

Dave

trfour · 05-10-2011, 08:43 PM

That friends of mine in the area swear by ( And Not At ).

http://www.irwinzone.com/

Cantin is very good as well; http://www.cantins.com/

Terry
_________________________

VitaBene · 05-11-2011, 04:04 AM

We just used Banks Chevrolet in Concord. They were a pleasure to deal with. I know it is really not north, but it is only an hour drive for us.

TheProfessor · 05-11-2011, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitaBene

We just used Banks Chevrolet in Concord. They were a pleasure to deal with. I know it is really not north, but it is only an hour drive for us.

I've had great luck with Banks Chevrolet/GMC/Buick in Concord. This is a family owned business. Service after sale has been excellent.

Do your homework. Go to kbb.com and edmunds.com and price out the vehicle you are interested in. No website provides all correct information but a good start.

With gas prices climbing stay with only 4 cylinder engines.

If a Japan manufactured car there will be shortages coming of cars. And prices will rise for those. Even some US made foreign brands will be in short supply as critical parts made in Japan will still be in short supply. So if you want a Japanese car get to dealership soon. Subaru is a popular brand here. Subaru will be in a short supply soon so if you find one you like then buy it.

This is a great time to purchase an American car. The new Ford Focus is supposed to be a real good car. As well as the Chevrolet Cruze. Chevrolet Equinox is a good choice for a 4 cylinder SUV.

I would avoid all cars manufactured in Korea, Mexico, and Europe. View the window sticker where it states: Final Assembly Point.

No matter what JD Powers states Korean cars do not hold their value well and many of the components may or may not hold up over time. Just look at a 5 year old Korean car.

Mexico cars. Quality may or may not be good. Some state that the Ford Fiesta (Made in Mexico) is a high quality car. Others state that all Volkswagens made in Mexico have short term and long term mechanical issues.

European cars. Basically 4 companies. Volkswagen (includes Porsche and Audi), Mercedes, BMW, and Tata. Tata owns Jaguar, and Land Rover. Saab is going bankrupt. Geely (China) owns Volvo. Parts and service are just plain expensive for all European cars. If you have the money for such then fine.

Understand what the Window Sticker price means. Understand what the invoice price is. Understand what the 3% holdback means.

Never go for any dealer add-ons. Such as Scotch Guard and never purchase an aftermarket alarm. With Scotch Guard all they do is spray the same stuff you can purchase at the supermarket. Aftermarket alarms will only cause you problems down the road. Never go for an after market warranty. Most are not worth the paper they are printed on. These are 2nd party warranties that usually cost the dealership around $200.00. And READ what is covered and READ what is not covered. If you think that you need an aftermarket warranty then you should not be buying that brand of car.

And if you do purchase a new car do change the oil twice the frequency as the manufacturer states. The engine will last virtually forever if you change the oil frequently.

Used cars and "Executive" cars are a different story.

VitaBene · 05-11-2011, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheProfessor

I've had great luck with Banks Chevrolet/GMC/Buick in Concord. This is a family owned business. Service after sale has been excellent.

With gas prices climbing stay with only 4 cylinder engines.

Chevrolet Equinox is a good choice for a 4 cylinder SUV.

We bought an Equinox for my wife. It has the 4 cylinder and AWD and she is averaging 25.3 MPG.

Belmont Resident · 05-11-2011, 06:29 AM

My wife bought 3 GM trucks and all came from Banks. Cantins was never willing to come close to their pricing. At one point a salesman said to her that if he was shopping and got that price he would buy there. I thought that was odd.
But I will say that Cantins service dept performed all the work on all of our GM trucks and they were always a pleasure to deal with.
I’ve always had issues with Irwin’s service dept and their prices are significantly higher than other Ford dealers in the area and they don’t seem willing to work with you.
Unfortunately Irwin’s service dept was the best of the lot so I did deal with them until my truck warranty expired and I now use Winnipesaukee truck for my diesel truck needs.
Amazing how much less you pay for service at a repair shop verses the dealer, and much more personal.
If you’re interested in Hyundai, my wife bought at Belmont and they have been a pleasure to deal with. The Hyundai Santé fee is a much better vehicle the RAV4 she had before it.
Hope this helps.

The Eagle · 05-11-2011, 06:44 AM

Hi Luckygoose,
I agree 100% with the "Professor." It is a great time to buy American! My CHEVROLET Tahoe lease is up in August and I am going to buy a Chevrolet Equinox. Great mileage, fantastic quality, and rated higest in SUV's crossovers. I considered the Chevrolet Malibu as well, but I like the Crossover SUV. Years ago American cars got "Bad Press," for their quality, but I have owned "New Generation," Chevy's now for many years and have never had any quality problems with any of them. I had owned 2 Caprice Estate Wagons, A Suburban, 2 TrailBlazers, my wife owns an Impala SS (Fantastic car), my son drives a Silverado Pickup, and a Camaro SS, and I still own my origional Camaro RS (1990) which sits in my garage in mint shape. You can't go wrong with a Chevy and it helps OUR AMERICAN economy! As Diana Shore sang, "See the USA in a Chevrolet, America is asking your to come!" Just to throw in a pitch..I bought ALL my Chevy's at Lannan Chevrolet in Woburn, MA! Friendly family dealership, no high pressure at all, great service. Ask for "Eddie" (Sales) if you go there, he knows "The Eagle" well, and takes great care of me!
"The Eagle"

BroadHopper · 05-11-2011, 06:57 AM

I've heard wonderful stories about dealing with the dealers in Concord. From sales to service. I was shopping for a Chevy for my in laws and Banks is far better to deal with than Cantin. Shopped for a Subaru and Reilly of Concord gave me a better deal than Belknap. Just before I bought the car, Belknap called and they will give me the same car plus 10% off if I bought it from them! If they wanted my business that bad, they would have given me the low price to begin with. I don't play games.

Irwin's is a different story. If you buy off the lot, they will give you a good deal. If you do a special order, all deals are off the table and you pay almost the mfg price. Service is mediocre. Not sure if it is the mfg fault or the dealer. My best friend 2008 Ford F-150 is loaded to the gills and he had nothing but electrical problems with it. He's been to three dealership in trying to fix it and no one can cure it. A letter to Ford and a visit from a factory representative results in a free extended bumper to bumper warrantee. That does not cover all the headache of putting up with the electrical gremlins and trips to the dealer.

I say, do your homework. Edmunds and KBB wil give you the wholesale price of the car. I'm sure there will be other kickbacks from the mfg that are not reported. it is a start. Go on to the mfg websites and search the dealers inventory for the exact car you want. Call that dealer for the best price and go from there. My last truck I found with the options I want was in a NJ dealership. They quoted me a price. I called all the Dodge dealerships in NH and ask for a quote of a truck with the same options. Prices vary in $100s, one dealer was $1000s off. Alen Mello in Nashua gave me the best price. They even shipped the truck I want from NJ at no additional cost!

Don't be afraid to travel for the best price. Service managers don't care where you brought the car, they just want your business. Salesmen will tell you that you can't get service at their dealer if you bought the car elsewhere. That's bull. I never believe anything a salesman tells me.

AllAbourdon · 05-11-2011, 07:41 AM

Having just bought and sold a few vehicles in this past month I made some "irrational" decisions on what we bought.

Generally I make a decision on what I want more than what is sensible. Heck, we own a boat.

If you can find one reasonably priced a used Mercedes with the Bluetec engine wouldnt steer you wrong. The mercedes diesels are very very quiet, you wouldnt know they are diesel and they are almost the cleanest running vehicle on the road right now. Diesel is a bit more money at the pump but those cars such as the e350 and ml350 diesels are churning out over 600 miles out of a tank.

On the other hand, my father has been running a toyota yaris as a commuter car for the last few years and loves it. Far less maintenance than the ford focus that he had. Actually, went through 2 fords, a wagon and a hatchback.

The geo metro got better milage than pretty much anything on the road today and those cars were just about maintenance free. Nothing but brake changes and oil changes up to about 250K miles.

birchhaven · 05-11-2011, 09:04 AM

I could write for days about how bad Quirk in Manchester is, always bought cars from Mr. Dobles, when Quirk bought them things went down hill incredibly bad. I can can not think of the words to describe how bad they are and I am the idiot who keeps giving them another shot.

SAMIAM · 05-11-2011, 09:14 AM

The Professor is right about warrantie's.....first thing they do after the sale is try to hard sell a warranty for $1,200 that costs them 2 or 3 hundred and is not needed in most cases.

Merrymeeting · 05-11-2011, 10:10 AM

I just purchased a truck from Granite Ford on Rt 11 in Rochester. I had previous good experiences with the service department on an older vehicle. My purchase experience reinforced my good feelings about this dealership. If you are looking for a Ford, I would recommend them.

sa meredith · 05-11-2011, 10:19 AM

Lucy Goose...
Not sure if you meant Brand New, or new to you. I assumed "new to you", but whatever.
Let me say this, as someone who has been in the auto business 22 years, all at the same dealership, and worked their way from Salesman, to Sales Manager, to GM.
The funny thing about this business is that everyone is an expert. Everyone "knows a guy". Everyone has a story.
It's the darndess thing. It I have a leaky faucet, I'll call a plumber. A leaky roof, a roofer. But cars??? No need to call anyone...everybody is an expert.
So...I will not write a lengthy post agreeingwith or refuting the many things you have been told here, but touch on a couple of high lights, if you choose to read them.
First of all, with regard to your intial post..."weare looking for a commuter car, that gets really good gas mileage and not looking to spend a lot of money". Yes, of course. You and the rest of the entire country.
What I mean by this is simply this: It is the equivillant of looking for a 4 x 4 plow truck,on the eve of the first major blizzard. Demand will out weigh supply.
If you find exactly what you are looking for, don't be surprised if the dealer does not completely bend over backward to make a deal with you. There are 5 more people walking inthe door that want exactly what you do. In an age of people taking jobs whereverthey can find them
and will to drive great distances, and an age of $4 gas...well, do the math. The market on great gas mileage, cheap, commuter cars is very strong. Stealing one will prove to be a difficult thing. Possibly consider searching thru private sale. Eliminate the middle man.
Someone mention "never buy an aftermarket" warrenty on a used car. Yes, great advice. Trying to make a claim on one is the same as trying to solve a calculous problem back in college. Very few people can figure out how to do it.
However, a manufacture backed warrenty is highly recommended. A Ford used vehicle ESP (extended service protection), or a GM warrentry are legit things. You can pull into any dealer of that manufacture and the will honor the warrenty...regardless of where is was purchased.
Although some dealers have very rugged, old school, hard core procedures that salesman must follow (like Quirk...stay away) and are the types of places that will tourture you for hours, there are many place that are pleasant to deal with. Usually, a dealerships reputation is going to bebased on the type of salesman you ran in to. A pleasant, helpful, knowledgable sales consultant can make you say "wow, what a great place" however, your neighbor may have gone there and had a different salesperson, and swears never to return. So, if you visit dealerships, don't be one of these people horrified when asked "may I help you" and saythe standard "just looking". Tell them what you are looking for, what you hope to accomplish, and a rough of idea of the type of finacial commitment you are lokking to make. A true professional will use the information correctly, and steer you in the right direction, and offer some helpful advice. A professional. A quick buck, dishonest salesman genarelly has very little knowledge of his product, and won't pay much attetion to what you are saying, so it should not be that difficult to quickly identify the type of person you are dealing with.
If uncomfortable, simply say thanks, for today you would just liketo browse alone a bit, and are going to leave soon.
However, when you find someone who seems to really know what they are taliking about, tries to offer sevaral suggestions...trust your instinct, and the salesperson. Many will indeed have your best interest in mind. This is the way I made very comfortable living for many years
and toward the end, had thousand upon thousand repeat customer. Many bought their first, 2nd, and 3rd car, and then came when their children were ready for a car. However, there were many poeple who hated my dealership, simply because they dealt with the wrong people. Go were you want and make your own descision.
Also , important...trust me on this...stay away from going somewhere and saying "OH, I know so and so. He sent me". IT DOES NOT MATTER!!!!! THEY DON'T CARE!!!!! They will pretend it matters, but truth be told, a large number of dealerships have pricing policies where, if a customer comes in and says, "I'm a friend of 'this guy' " they will try to make a bit more, simply because they think you might just say OK, and not grind them at all. Find your own way...don't announce you are a referral of anyone. It can hurt more than it helps....90% or the time.
I guess alot of this is car buying 101, and I don't mean to insult your intelligence...I just get a kick out of how much everyone is an expert in car sales.
Quickly from what you described, I would say a Ford Focus, 3 or 4 yearsold would be a great choice..depending on your budget. It seems you probably keep a car for a long while, so resale value should be of little or no concern to you...I was curious why a poster told you to be careful about resale. From the info you gave, I assumed you are not a frequent trader, and keep a car until it is finished, so resale should play little or no role in your decision.
Don't be afraid to have a disinterested third party check the car for condition...a normal dealership will have no problem with it...in fact they should encourage it, if it make you feel more comfortable.
And check things that are not going to be covered under your power train warrenty...things you may not think of.
All 4 power windows, A/C is ice cold, power locks, sterio C/D player, cruise control, stuff like that. A dealer does not have to stand behind the extras...only the engine, transs, and safety items (NH instection items).
If you want to talk with someone I would trust with my own family...a low key, gentleman, who hasbeen selling since 1983, PM me, and I willgive you his name and dealership...and you can call him to talk on the phone first. He is over near Winnisquam.
I wish you well...buying a car should not be torture. You should enjoy it, and learn a lot from it.
I apologixe for all spelling errors and grammar mistakes in thispost...no time to go thru and fix...typed very quickly

ishoot308 · 05-11-2011, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by birchhaven

I could write for days about how bad Quirk in Manchester is, always bought cars from Mr. Dobles, when Quirk bought them things went down hill incredibly bad. I can can not think of the words to describe how bad they are and I am the idiot who keeps giving them another shot.

Couldn't agree with you more! My business bought from Doble's for years. When Quirk took over, everything went down hill especially their service department. They are as bad as it gets!

Dan

patman · 05-11-2011, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

The Professor is right about warrantie's.....first thing they do after the sale is try to hard sell a warranty for $1,200 that costs them 2 or 3 hundred and is not needed in most cases.

I bought an aftermarket extended warranty once. Just once. When it came time to make a claim, nothing was covered because of technicalities. Never again.

dpg · 05-11-2011, 11:05 AM

Know exactly what you want and contact two or three dealers on line and do your business there. I did quite well when purchasing my 2009 Honda. I had two other dealers back off and not come within 1,200 of what I ended up paying. I agreed on a price via emails and simply showed up to sign the papers. 11 months after my purchase I was in the dealers showroom for an oil change and they had my EXACT car on the showroom floor as a "left over" it was marked on clearance $55.00 less than I paid.

chipj29 · 05-11-2011, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sa meredith

I guess alot of this is car buying 101, and I don't mean to insult your intelligence...I just get a kick out of how much everyone is an expert in car sales.

sa, great post with lots of excellent insight!
What are your thoughts on the employee purchase programs out there? My employer offers a discount through the big 3 US manufacturers. Is it even worth to mention, or do you lose all your negotiating power?

tis · 05-11-2011, 11:26 AM

Interesting, it seems we are not the only ones who would have preferred to buy from Cantin but couldn't. We got three prices on our Caddy truck and Cantin was out of the ball game. Being in the Lakes Region, we called them back but they said they couldn't do any better. We ended up buying it in Saco, Maine, although the place in Portsmouth met the price.

TheProfessor · 05-11-2011, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chipj29

sa, great post with lots of excellent insight!
What are your thoughts on the employee purchase programs out there? My employer offers a discount through the big 3 US manufacturers. Is it even worth to mention, or do you lose all your negotiating power?

New cars/trucks/SUV.

There are different tiers of employee discount. If you physically work for one of the manufacturers there is one tier price. If you work for one of the suppliers to the manufacturers there may be another tier. And on and on.

Find out what the tier is or what the discount is and take it from there. Depending on what tier or discount you may get you may be able to purchase a car off the lot cheaper without any tier discount.

Here is one program provided by Ford. Called the X-Plan or Partner Recognition Plan.

https://www.fordpartner.com/partnerw...tner_rules.htm

Newbiesaukee · 05-11-2011, 11:34 AM

A few minor things to add to the very helpful advice you have been given, particularly from sa Meredith.

My wife buys her own cars and goes into the dealer, knowledgeable about what she wants and ready to buy. On too many occasions she has not been taken seriously by the salesman and has walked out. Seems she "needs" a man around, which means me, to buy a car. Sad state of affairs but this is the dealer's loss. These experiences were not in NH.

The internet is a tremendous method to gather information about cars and to locate the one you want. But, buyer beware. About 5 years ago we were about to purchase a car 3000 miles away and insisted on seeing the invoice, etc. Seems the specific car we talked about was a year older than was advertised and we were very specific about the model year we wanted; this was not an oversight. We eventually did purchase long distance from another dealer with no problems.

We love cars, just don't like to shop for them

Steveo · 05-11-2011, 11:50 AM

I have used Portsmouth Ford several times for both used and new and they have been great. The best part of their dealership is that there is no haggling over price. They discount their cars to a set price and they will not budge from the price. The discounted price are quite good but can also serve you well as a base price you can look for from other dealers. This included trade-ins as well. They give you a fair price for trade-in and will not negotiate.

SIKSUKR · 05-11-2011, 11:53 AM

Couldn't let this one get by sa.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sa meredith

Lucy Goose...
Not sure if you meant Brand New, or new to you. I assumed "new to you", but whatever.
Let me say this, as someone who has been in the auto business 22 years, all at the same dealership, and worked their way from Salesman, to Sales Manager, to GM.
The funny thing about this business is that everyone is an expert. Everyone "knows a guy". Everyone has a story.
It's the darndess thing. It I have a leaky faucet, I'll call a plumber. A leaky roof, a roofer. But cars??? No need to call anyone...everybody is an expert.
So...I will not write a lengthy post agreeingwith or refuting the many things you have been told here, but touch on a couple of high lights, if you choose to read them.
First of all, with regard to your intial post..."weare looking for a commuter car, that gets really good gas mileage and not looking to spend a lot of money". Yes, of course. You and the rest of the entire country.
What I mean by this is simply this: It is the equivillant of looking for a 4 x 4 plow truck,on the eve of the first major blizzard. Demand will out weigh supply.
If you find exactly what you are looking for, don't be surprised if the dealer does not completely bend over backward to make a deal with you. There are 5 more people walking inthe door that want exactly what you do. In an age of people taking jobs whereverthey can find them
and will to drive great distances, and an age of $4 gas...well, do the math. The market on great gas mileage, cheap, commuter cars is very strong. Stealing one will prove to be a difficult thing. Possibly consider searching thru private sale. Eliminate the middle man.
Someone mention "never buy an aftermarket" warrenty on a used car. Yes, great advice. Trying to make a claim on one is the same as trying to solve a calculous problem back in college. Very few people can figure out how to do it.
However, a manufacture backed warrenty is highly recommended. A Ford used vehicle ESP (extended service protection), or a GM warrentry are legit things. You can pull into any dealer of that manufacture and the will honor the warrenty...regardless of where is was purchased.
Although some dealers have very rugged, old school, hard core procedures that salesman must follow (like Quirk...stay away) and are the types of places that will tourture you for hours, there are many place that are pleasant to deal with. Usually, a dealerships reputation is going to bebased on the type of salesman you ran in to. A pleasant, helpful, knowledgable sales consultant can make you say "wow, what a great place" however, your neighbor may have gone there and had a different salesperson, and swears never to return. So, if you visit dealerships, don't be one of these people horrified when asked "may I help you" and saythe standard "just looking". Tell them what you are looking for, what you hope to accomplish, and a rough of idea of the type of finacial commitment you are lokking to make. A true professional will use the information correctly, and steer you in the right direction, and offer some helpful advice. A professional. A quick buck, dishonest salesman genarelly has very little knowledge of his product, and won't pay much attetion to what you are saying, so it should not be that difficult to quickly identify the type of person you are dealing with.
If uncomfortable, simply say thanks, for today you would just liketo browse alone a bit, and are going to leave soon.
However, when you find someone who seems to really know what they are taliking about, tries to offer sevaral suggestions...trust your instinct, and the salesperson. Many will indeed have your best interest in mind. This is the way I made very comfortable living for many years
and toward the end, had thousand upon thousand repeat customer. Many bought their first, 2nd, and 3rd car, and then came when their children were ready for a car. However, there were many poeple who hated my dealership, simply because they dealt with the wrong people. Go were you want and make your own descision.
Also , important...trust me on this...stay away from going somewhere and saying "OH, I know so and so. He sent me". IT DOES NOT MATTER!!!!! THEY DON'T CARE!!!!! They will pretend it matters, but truth be told, a large number of dealerships have pricing policies where, if a customer comes in and says, "I'm a friend of 'this guy' " they will try to make a bit more, simply because they think you might just say OK, and not grind them at all. Find your own way...don't announce you are a referral of anyone. It can hurt more than it helps....90% or the time.
I guess alot of this is car buying 101, and I don't mean to insult your intelligence...I just get a kick out of how much everyone is an expert in car sales.
Quickly from what you described, I would say a Ford Focus, 3 or 4 yearsold would be a great choice..depending on your budget. It seems you probably keep a car for a long while, so resale value should be of little or no concern to you...I was curious why a poster told you to be careful about resale. From the info you gave, I assumed you are not a frequent trader, and keep a car until it is finished, so resale should play little or no role in your decision.
Don't be afraid to have a disinterested third party check the car for condition...a normal dealership will have no problem with it...in fact they should encourage it, if it make you feel more comfortable.
And check things that are not going to be covered under your power train warrenty...things you may not think of.
All 4 power windows, A/C is ice cold, power locks, sterio C/D player, cruise control, stuff like that. A dealer does not have to stand behind the extras...only the engine, transs, and safety items (NH instection items).
If you want to talk with someone I would trust with my own family...a low key, gentleman, who hasbeen selling since 1983, PM me, and I willgive you his name and dealership...and you can call him to talk on the phone first. He is over near Winnisquam.
I wish you well...buying a car should not be torture. You should enjoy it, and learn a lot from it.
I apologixe for all spelling errors and grammar mistakes in thispost...no time to go thru and fix...typed very quickly

sa meredith · 05-11-2011, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chipj29

sa, great post with lots of excellent insight!
What are your thoughts on the employee purchase programs out there? My employer offers a discount through the big 3 US manufacturers. Is it even worth to mention, or do you lose all your negotiating power?

Depends...I am most familiar with Ford.
If it is "X" plan (AKA: Friend and Family) it truly translates to a price anyone can get with a bit of effort. Not really the best deal...just a fair deal for both parties. Truth is, the customer always wants to make the fantastic deal, and there is always a dealer willing to take it. X plan is good, not great. A plan or D plan...reserved for direct employees of Ford or dealerships...you won't find a better deal.

Also, with regard to everyone saying "this place or that place won't match the price"...well, it simply is this. Do you want to keep the $ local or not?
Think of it like this...if you go to "Joe's Hardware" for a widget on a Saturday afternoon, it might cost $5.00, and he might sell 25 widgets a week. Well, Home Depot is 3 miles away, and, because they sell 1500 widgets a week, they sell them for $3.75. You spend the $5.00 for 2 reason. 1. It is closer. 2. (and more importantly) You like the fact that when you go in there, they call you by name, ask how the family is, talk sports for a while, chew the fat as you browes a bit, and maybe offer you few tips on the project you are working on. They are friends. They know
you. They like you. They are happy you are their customer.
But guess what...there are no longer "Joe's Hardware" stores on every corner. In fact, they are quite rare. Home depot took care of that, didn't they?
And so, when price is all you care about...and will drive to the super store in Maine or Portsmouth to save some $$$ (of course with gas, and all of your time spend driving) well, that cuts into it, doesn't it.
And, when you find that little scatch after the fact (2/3 days later) that is totally at the discression of the dealer to fix or not, do you think for a second the hometown/family owned small dealership is going to cover for you? More likey...they will tell you to enjoy your drive back to Maine.
Or if it breaks down for some reason. Is it covered at the small/hometown place? Of course. But if it is a Friday night, and you had weekend plans...or a Tuesday and you have to have it for Wednesday...do you honestly think the place that you DIDNOT buy it from is going to go above and beyond for you. PLEASE!
One day, when I write my book, there will be an entire chapter devoted to the 100's of stories I have, about people that outsmarted themselves. Coutless times.
For some reason, in our society, long ago it became an accepted concept that dealerships are not entitled to fair profit. And now, the family owned friendly places are going away.
How do the huge places do it??? With Volume? No, not really.
They get you there with the price. And then they have a system. Designed to wear down, and defeat even the sharpest of buyers. Some will tell you must finance with them at their rate to get the price, and they make it up on finance reserve (of course, you don't really have to finance it with them...but they'll try you on for size...many people simply "lay down"). And they'll after sell you to death. They are good at what they do. Believe me. They will indeed find a way to do...but you have to be set up to do it that way. You will be turned over from person to another to another. Sit in this office, then that office. It is a system, and it is choreographed. You have driven 50 miles for a deal, the dealership kowns this, and they will wear you down, until you say "whatever...just give me my new car".
The people that do the grinding...they are good at it. It is what they do for a living. The dealship has put this system in place. They are set up to defeat anyone. Not just avarage Joe's...Docotor's, Laywers, Accountants..whoever.
It is only the arrogant SOB that thinks..."oh, they won't get me". Believe me, those are the people that are the most fun to get.
So...drive your 25/50/75/100 miles to save a few hundred.
And soon, when your small, hometown place is gone (you know... the place you love going to for service..but when it come time to buy, well, they just can't quite hit the mark)...when that place closes, you know who to blame.
Right now, for the life of me, I can't figure how Meredith Ford stays open. A single point store, with Irwin and Auto Serve minutes away...but she plugs away and keeps the doors open. For now anyway.
My place went under, over a year ago...after 66 years in business. It happens.
Not any different than all the drug stores from the 50's and 60's on every corner. CVS and Rite Aid took care of those. No more walking in to the corner store, and "Joe the pharmacist" says, "hey, Marie, how's little Jimmy's cold. Did that script clear it up?" days gone by...

sa meredith · 05-11-2011, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steveo

I have used Portsmouth Ford several times for both used and new and they have been great. The best part of their dealership is that there is no haggling over price. They discount their cars to a set price and they will not budge from the price. The discounted price are quite good but can also serve you well as a base price you can look for from other dealers. This included trade-ins as well. They give you a fair price for trade-in and will not negotiate.

Yep good prices...but have put many places under.
People drive 100 miles to go there...and want the vehicle serviced elsewhere.
They want nothing to do with service, and actually tell you to bring it to your hometown.
Years back (2001/2003) dealers just stopped. They would tell people...sorry, no Portsmouth cars. We have to take care of our own. It was pretty cool...there were 5 or 6 of us in a 5 town area..we all stuck to it. And told people they could drive 100 mile to by it, drive 100 (or tow) to fix it. Too bad. Anyway...Ford Motor stepped in and put a stop to it.

4Fun · 05-11-2011, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

The Professor is right about warrantie's.....first thing they do after the sale is try to hard sell a warranty for $1,200 that costs them 2 or 3 hundred and is not needed in most cases.

I agree most 3rd party warranty companies are theives But the Zurich warranty we had on our Volvo was great. Paid for several claims including a transmission without any argument at all. It was well worth the money in our case. Our Dealer also said they were always fair when they put in claims. Like anyting else you get what you pay for.

TheProfessor · 05-11-2011, 01:22 PM

There are three ways a new car dealership makes money.
1. New car sales
2. Used car sales
3. Service

Service is what pays the bills. So anyone mentioning turning away any service is nuts. That dealership will go out of business.

Used car sales is where the dealership makes the annual profit. On average about $2,000 per used car profit. Give or take. Most new car dealerships stick to only used cars 3 years old or less and less then 50,000 miles. With some exceptions.

New car sales if almost profitless. Margins are thin. Some sell under invoice. Some even dig into the 3% holdback just to keep sales numbers up. Little profit there.

I do agree to shop locally and I do agree to purchase from as local a dealer as possible.

Each dealership has a personality. That is set by the owner or general manager. Some dealerships are very good and user friendly while others are lacking in everything. Some of these are big dealerships while others are small dealerships.

One added tip that may or may not work. Buy all the Sunday newspapers. Find the car you are looking for in any advertisement. Verify that there is a car in stock for that price. Then take the advertisement to your local new car dealership and ask them if they will match the printed newspaper advertisement price. Most will. You must verify that the advertisement is valid and real and includes all added costs. Be honest. Read the fine print in the newspaper advertisement. Most dealerships will match any advertised price.

Slickcraft · 05-11-2011, 01:52 PM

Five suggestions:

1. Read the Consumers Report annual auto issue (April) for ratings and reliability of vehicles of interest to you. Either buy a copy or visit a library.

2. Then go to the Edmunds web site to look at their reviews and get dealer invoice pricing, holdback info plus current factory incentive info. http://www.edmunds.com/

3. With some info in hand test drive your top choices.

4. Once a make/model is nailed down and you are ready to buy, and only then, and armed with Edmunds pricing, talk $$ with dealers asking them what they need to get over invoice. Make the trade-in value a separate issue, in reality you will only get wholesale value. If convenient do this at more than one dealer.

5. As many have noted, say no to the hard sell for extended warranties.

TheProfessor · 05-11-2011, 02:17 PM

Good point about trade-ins.

According to Consumer Reports. Never mention the trade in until the deal is struck for the new car. Period.

It is best to sell your used car outright and use your local newspaper. All newspapers have classifieds in print AND on line. You can sell it before or after you purchase your new car.

But, if you must trade in the older car then do what Consumer Reports states. Park way away from front door of dealership. Don't mention trade in. If they ask. Then just state that you are not sure. Tell the truth. And the truth is at that very moment you are not sure.

Once you obtain the final cost of new car including ALL of the dealer add-ons that may or may not contain dealer prep., title preparation, dealer advertising, regional advertising, national advertising, gas tank fill up, and the list can go on and on. Once you obtain the final final price then and only then do you state that you are trading in your old car. If you do not do this as Consumer Reports recommends ALL of the numbers are skewed and are not real as far as the value or amount of the trade in car.

RailroadJoe · 05-11-2011, 03:43 PM

Be careful of what they won't tell you. My opinion of car salesmen is just below attorneys.

TheProfessor · 05-11-2011, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RailroadJoe

Be careful of what they won't tell you. My opinion of car salesmen is just below attorneys.

That is the perception of many. But I don't think it is the person more then it is the system for some new car dealerships. Salesmen/women have to follow the rules provided to them by the sales manager and/or owner.

Many new car dealerships provide much to local charities and to things such as Little League - and such.

And some attorneys provide pro bono services to the communities.

But alas, some do exhibit behavior that warrants these perceptions.

Belmont Resident · 05-11-2011, 06:42 PM

Do not quote me on this but to the best of my knowledge GM and Dodge now require you to have all warranty work completed at the dealership the vehicle was purchased at. The factory wants the dealership to own any problems associated with the vehicles.

sky's · 05-11-2011, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sa meredith

Lucy Goose...
Not sure if you meant Brand New, or new to you. I assumed "new to you", but whatever.
Let me say this, as someone who has been in the auto business 22 years, all at the same dealership, and worked their way from Salesman, to Sales Manager, to GM.
The funny thing about this business is that everyone is an expert. Everyone "knows a guy". Everyone has a story.
It's the darndess thing. It I have a leaky faucet, I'll call a plumber. A leaky roof, a roofer. But cars??? No need to call anyone...everybody is an expert.
So...I will not write a lengthy post agreeingwith or refuting the many things you have been told here, but touch on a couple of high lights, if you choose to read them.
First of all, with regard to your intial post..."weare looking for a commuter car, that gets really good gas mileage and not looking to spend a lot of money". Yes, of course. You and the rest of the entire country.
What I mean by this is simply this: It is the equivillant of looking for a 4 x 4 plow truck,on the eve of the first major blizzard. Demand will out weigh supply.
If you find exactly what you are looking for, don't be surprised if the dealer does not completely bend over backward to make a deal with you. There are 5 more people walking inthe door that want exactly what you do. In an age of people taking jobs whereverthey can find them
and will to drive great distances, and an age of $4 gas...well, do the math. The market on great gas mileage, cheap, commuter cars is very strong. Stealing one will prove to be a difficult thing. Possibly consider searching thru private sale. Eliminate the middle man.
Someone mention "never buy an aftermarket" warrenty on a used car. Yes, great advice. Trying to make a claim on one is the same as trying to solve a calculous problem back in college. Very few people can figure out how to do it.
However, a manufacture backed warrenty is highly recommended. A Ford used vehicle ESP (extended service protection), or a GM warrentry are legit things. You can pull into any dealer of that manufacture and the will honor the warrenty...regardless of where is was purchased.
Although some dealers have very rugged, old school, hard core procedures that salesman must follow (like Quirk...stay away) and are the types of places that will tourture you for hours, there are many place that are pleasant to deal with. Usually, a dealerships reputation is going to bebased on the type of salesman you ran in to. A pleasant, helpful, knowledgable sales consultant can make you say "wow, what a great place" however, your neighbor may have gone there and had a different salesperson, and swears never to return. So, if you visit dealerships, don't be one of these people horrified when asked "may I help you" and saythe standard "just looking". Tell them what you are looking for, what you hope to accomplish, and a rough of idea of the type of finacial commitment you are lokking to make. A true professional will use the information correctly, and steer you in the right direction, and offer some helpful advice. A professional. A quick buck, dishonest salesman genarelly has very little knowledge of his product, and won't pay much attetion to what you are saying, so it should not be that difficult to quickly identify the type of person you are dealing with.
If uncomfortable, simply say thanks, for today you would just liketo browse alone a bit, and are going to leave soon.
However, when you find someone who seems to really know what they are taliking about, tries to offer sevaral suggestions...trust your instinct, and the salesperson. Many will indeed have your best interest in mind. This is the way I made very comfortable living for many years
and toward the end, had thousand upon thousand repeat customer. Many bought their first, 2nd, and 3rd car, and then came when their children were ready for a car. However, there were many poeple who hated my dealership, simply because they dealt with the wrong people. Go were you want and make your own descision.
Also , important...trust me on this...stay away from going somewhere and saying "OH, I know so and so. He sent me". IT DOES NOT MATTER!!!!! THEY DON'T CARE!!!!! They will pretend it matters, but truth be told, a large number of dealerships have pricing policies where, if a customer comes in and says, "I'm a friend of 'this guy' " they will try to make a bit more, simply because they think you might just say OK, and not grind them at all. Find your own way...don't announce you are a referral of anyone. It can hurt more than it helps....90% or the time.
I guess alot of this is car buying 101, and I don't mean to insult your intelligence...I just get a kick out of how much everyone is an expert in car sales.
Quickly from what you described, I would say a Ford Focus, 3 or 4 yearsold would be a great choice..depending on your budget. It seems you probably keep a car for a long while, so resale value should be of little or no concern to you...I was curious why a poster told you to be careful about resale. From the info you gave, I assumed you are not a frequent trader, and keep a car until it is finished, so resale should play little or no role in your decision.
Don't be afraid to have a disinterested third party check the car for condition...a normal dealership will have no problem with it...in fact they should encourage it, if it make you feel more comfortable.
And check things that are not going to be covered under your power train warrenty...things you may not think of.
All 4 power windows, A/C is ice cold, power locks, sterio C/D player, cruise control, stuff like that. A dealer does not have to stand behind the extras...only the engine, transs, and safety items (NH instection items).
If you want to talk with someone I would trust with my own family...a low key, gentleman, who hasbeen selling since 1983, PM me, and I willgive you his name and dealership...and you can call him to talk on the phone first. He is over near Winnisquam.
I wish you well...buying a car should not be torture. You should enjoy it, and learn a lot from it.
I apologixe for all spelling errors and grammar mistakes in thispost...no time to go thru and fix...typed very quickly

your response is so true if i were to summarize (if i may) " go with you gut instinct" i buy a new car every 3 years perhaps not the best economical choice but i think it all comes down to the individual you are dealing with and your own judgement. keep it simple and by the way i bought 3 new cars within 1 year from Banks Chev. and not impressed to corporate for me no 1on1 yes they may offer better pricing? however Cantins is probably neck in neck. good luck with your choice cheaper is not always better

MAXUM · 05-11-2011, 07:55 PM

Edmunds is pretty good at getting invoice pricing both on the base vehicle and on the options that may be installed. They don't necessarily have updated information on preferred option packages and manufacturer's rebates.

No question the most important thing before talking a deal seriously is to arm yourself with the invoice pricing AND know exactly what your looking for when it comes time to sit down at the table. Want to know if you got a great deal? Take that invoice price, subtract the destination charge, dealer fees and dealer hold back (all available online). If you got what your looking for at that price or less you did good. If you paid anything over that... well you paid more than you needed to. Now you may say how is it possible to get a vehicle for less than invoice and subtracting all the fees. Oh it is, see the invoice price now a days is still loaded with some dealer incentives that are hidden, and don't forget the dealers make money on volume not necessarily on each unit sold. So the key is to hit the big dealer and press them hard, don't worry they won't make a deal and "loose money" at the same time. If you're really good don't hesitate to negotiate on things they just as soon not even discuss, like for example the kick back they get if you happen to finance the vehicle through the manufacturer. I negotiated an extra $500 bucks out of the dealer by instead of paying cash, financing it - with no pre-payment clause of course which I promptly paid off the first month. Yes it can be done. You'll have to hold your ground and even do like I did and get up and leave since the deal wasn't coming in close enough between what I wanted to pay and what they wanted to sell for. When I left the table we were 3K apart on the price when I came back to buy after a couple of phone calls from the sales manager they came down $2500 I went up $500, in the end I got my new 2011 Toyota Tacoma 4X4 for $1900 UNDER invoice with no dealer fees, prep or destination charge paid. I did have to pay the documentation, but that to me is a fair charge to pay. Oh the sales manager cried he was loosing money - yeah whatever they made money and I told him so much or that deal never would have happened. On the flip side I can tell you right now there is no way right now to get say a Prius for anything under invoice.

Remember hold their feet to the fire, the salesman is NOT your friend or doing you any favors, they have a vested interest in getting you to buy at the highest possible price. IF you have a person that's nice and pleasant to work with - great but they are still not your buddy. Dealer or manufacturer extended warranties are nothing but gravy money for the dealers and should be avoided, if you're buying a quality vehicle you don't need it anyways. Never get suckered into any dealer installed options. Finally there is no free lunch with these guys, like service your vehicle here and get "free" (whatever). Nah they aren't doing that as a favor, they are making money by fooling the customer into thinking they are getting something for nothing and up selling service every time you come in. Those big facilities and fancy show rooms on prime real estate exist for a reason - uninformed buyers getting screwed to various degrees.

Oh and here's my favorite. Don't hesitate to take all that great information off the web, print it out and bring it with you. Reference it often and un-apologetically. If you don't hear what you want out of one dealer go elsewhere. Even if one dealer has what you want, make a deal for that vehicle at another dealer, they sometimes can cherry pick inventory from each other. Better yet negotiate a deal at one and take it in writing to another and get them to beat it (if they can).

If you're buying used that's tougher because "book value" is merely a guide not gospel. There are so many variables in play but the bottom line there is to look around and get a feel for the current market, again only possible after you hone in on exactly what you want. Some things demand higher prices than others just they way it is. Market research will help with that. Condition and a flawless maintenance history trumps mileage. Car fax is your friend never buy without seeing one. Never buy used without having somebody that knows what they are doing give it a once over that is a neutral party. A trained eye can catch most things. Few dirty secrets with used cars.

Certified Used means only one thing. The vehicle visually looks acceptable and falls within a certain year and mileage window. Nothing more nothing less. Don't think the dealer spent hours of time nit picking the car - trust me they didn't, or ever will. Certified vehicles usually do carry some incentives like a small warranty and at times special financing deals.

Plain on used... on a big dealer lot normally these are cars and trucks that are less than 90K on the ticker, less than 8 years old and are in good enough shape where there is nothing seriously wrong with them and have good curb appeal and can be flipped for minimal or no investment. On a rare occasion you'll see higher mileage cars, those are the exceptional few but the problem is they are very hard to get financing for due to the age or mileage. There is a market for those, up until my last purchase that's always been my sweet spot, 6-8 years old with 100K on the ODO. Not for everyone but if you know what your looking at and what to look for in regards to common problems. Hey I've been known to carry my portable ODBII computer scanner with me and pull codes out of the ECU right in front of the sales man

what are they going to say - no?

Small car dealers - 90% of the time is a miss. Why? Their inventory is mostly supplied by big dealer cast offs, as I said earlier the dealers only cast off stuff for a reason and usually a good one. I don't waste my time at small dealers. I'm way to particular as to what I'm looking for.

Now all that said... if you want to know where I bought my new truck PM me and I'll let you know, don't think it appropriate to advertise anyone in this kind of forum. Would I recommend them? Getting the deal I did took time, research and effort, but in the end they were pretty darn aggressive in their pricing but had to be pushed to get there. That wasn't a strippo model either, it was fully decked out. I think I was treated fair, they didn't try to play any games but again I stood my ground and was prepared to and did walk away.

Finally any good deal you may get will be ruined if you trade in something. You can always beat what a dealer will give you in trade selling privately.

TheProfessor · 05-11-2011, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

Do not quote me on this but to the best of my knowledge GM and Dodge now require you to have all warranty work completed at the dealership the vehicle was purchased at. The factory wants the dealership to own any problems associated with the vehicles.

I have never heard of this one. I own a new 2010 GM vehicle and it has been repaired under warranty in three states. At three dealerships and not any were the one I purchased vehicle. Just last month. And the last warranty work was over 2,500 miles away. And that dealership couldn't have been more friendly and happy to have me as a customer.

And I can't say enought good about Chevrolet dealerships specially family owned ones. I had an issue in rural Iowa with my new Chevrolet. One loose connected wire. And I was taken in immediately and on my way in less then two hours. And I was only passing through Iowa. My other warranty issues were minor in nature.

GM vehicle have OnStar and I can't state how good it is for someone who travels a lot. All GM vehicles have a phone built it. Yes, almost all of us now have a separate cell phone. Yes, some don't like OnStar. I love it. And I have satellite radio and this is great for long trips. Local travel all the time you may not need or want this. And if you don't listen to the radio then this is a moot point.

Merrymeeting · 05-12-2011, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steveo

I have used Portsmouth Ford several times for both used and new and they have been great. The best part of their dealership is that there is no haggling over price. They discount their cars to a set price and they will not budge from the price. The discounted price are quite good but can also serve you well as a base price you can look for from other dealers. This included trade-ins as well. They give you a fair price for trade-in and will not negotiate.

I went there when I first started looking for my truck. I found their "no-haggle" price was significantly higher than deals I was able to get at several other dealers closer to the lake.

As others have posted, go to Edmunds or Consumer Reports and arm yourself with the invoice price. That should be your starting point for negociations, and should go down from there.

I was able to use X-Plan plus the discounts being offered at the time to get mine at well below invoice.

sa meredith · 05-12-2011, 10:15 AM

I LOVE IT... I LOVE IT...I LOVE IT...
As stated previously, car business is great...every one is an expert. PLEASE!
I love the posts suggesting you lie to the dealership. That's just great. What fantastic advice! It's just a piece of crap salesman, right? Lie to him/her...who cares.
Park your trade around the corner...tell them you are not trading. So...lie. Great advice.
I can tell you as many stories as you would like to read, but will not bore people to death with them, about why you really should not do that...but I will give a couple quick examples.
1st of all...treat people the way you want to be treated. Do you want to be lied to? Yes or no?
Why does a dealer need to know?
Well, maybe you truly have a very desireable trade, and the dealer will be happy to give you an even better price on the new car to get the trade.
Or...how about this. You tell the dealership you have no trade...and that's good, because at the moment, they are struggling a bit, and really can't take big money trades. Your trade is worth 10/12K, and presently the dealership is used car heavy, and would prefer a clean sale. But the sales rep does not have to tell you that upfront, because you just told him/her you have no trade. Great...as far as the sales rep goes, that hurdle is cleared. So, both parties nagotiate...the sales rep in good faith...the lieing customer, not so much. After 3 hours of crunching numbers, and test driving 3 models, and choosing a color, and the sales rep educating you about the car's features...you try to undo your lie and say..."I have a trade". The sales rep should pop you one in the mouth for lieing and wasting his entire afternoon. Here's a clue folks...car sales poeple are not the reps of the 70's/ 80's. They are not the booze drinking, cocaine snorting, woman chasing fools of years ago. They are regular people who need to pay their mortgage, their children's tuition, their electric bill, their cable bill, their taxes...just like everyone else. And it's OK to lie and waste their time??? Are you fried?
If you lie, expect to be lied to. We reap what we sow in this world.
Edmonds...KBB...Consumer Reports...christ, do you read a manual before using the toilet?
Trust your own ability to negotiate, find a professional sales rep, and enter into a relationship with him in good faith.
In summer 2007, gas was hitting 4 bucks for the 1st time, and everyone in the country was in a panic. New SUV's or trucks could be bought for a song...6,7,8 K discounts easy to find. But used SUVs/ trucks..no market. No one wanted them. Wholesalers, dealers, customers...there was 0 market for them. We did not want them, and told everyone up front...no trades on SUV/Trucks.
Many dealerships had signs made so people knew.
Anyway...I had a smart ass come in on a Monday morning to buy a very expensixe F350, gas job. 10/12 MPG at best. Awful, and gas was $4 +. After grinding away for hours, and reaching a deal...my sales rep comes back to me, and says, "this guy just told me he has a 2004 he has to trade, and is upside down" (owes more than it is worth). So, not only does he have a trade I won't take, he owes more than it is worth...which is going to make a deal tough, even in good times. The guy was a real "know it all", and truth be told, a jerk.
I had the saleman just abandon him. Leave him sitting in the office. Just ignore him. After 45 minutes he came out, wondering what was happening. I told the customer I had to reprimand the salesman for mistreating a customer, and suspended him. I explained to the jerk, that he should have been told up front that we were not taking trades on trucks, and apologized for the salesman misleading him (of course, I knew full well that the salesman had told the customer this up front) and wasting the customer's time. And, of course, the guy sheepishly tells me that he was told this. So I asked why he lied. And he gives me the standard "oh come on, you guys do it all the time!"
And then, I simply suggested he go elswhere.
Don't lie people...never good idea. Want to know what your trade is actually worth? At the end of the negotiation, just ask! Say, "if I were to decide to keep my trade in and give it to a family member, could you please tell me what the figure would then be?" It's a fair question, and not a lie.
Let me end with this...you go to buy a new home. You decide to put an offer in. Are you not obligated to diclose to the seller/agent, that you can't close, until you sell the home you currently have? Of course you are. It's an important part of the equation.
If you are so concerned that a dealership will jumble up the numbers (yes, many will)...simply have the trade appraised, and just insist that as the negotiation moves along the new car price and the trade in price must be kept seperate on the work sheet. Insist on it. If they don't, get up and leave. But don't lie. Just wrong.

Happy Gourmand · 05-12-2011, 11:12 AM

I was in the car business in the 80's and 90's so I can agree that what you say is spot on. I can honestly say that I was lied to on more occasions than I can recall, and could also come up with dozens and dozens of war stories about how I was treated an a lowly car salesman. Truth is, as I see it, car sales folks are some of the hardest working people I know...with bills, and mortgages just like the rest of us....who'd a thunk? But folks like that aside, It was one of the jobs in my life that I liked the best and tryly enjoyed...aside from the nights, holidays, weekends...and snow days. Ask anybody in the car business what a snow day is...I doubt many of you will believe what we had to do when there was a snowstorm. I enjoyed working a deal with a prospect, and found that it was fairly easy to separate the liars from the buyers.
SA, I wonder if we ever crossed paths? I worked for a couple dealerships in Nashoa, and one in Concord.

Steveo · 05-12-2011, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sa meredith

Yep good prices...but have put many places under.
People drive 100 miles to go there...and want the vehicle serviced elsewhere.
They want nothing to do with service, and actually tell you to bring it to your hometown.
Years back (2001/2003) dealers just stopped. They would tell people...sorry, no Portsmouth cars. We have to take care of our own. It was pretty cool...there were 5 or 6 of us in a 5 town area..we all stuck to it. And told people they could drive 100 mile to by it, drive 100 (or tow) to fix it. Too bad. Anyway...Ford Motor stepped in and put a stop to it.

I'm not sure what you are saying here but Portsmouth Ford does service the cars they sell, even offer free oil change.

As far as other dealers refusing Portsmouth Ford cars, ah I think that doesn't make sense since most dealers make far more on services than they do on sales, why would they refuse the high profit part of the deal. Also they are required by Ford to to provide warranty service. I've never had a problem getting service for my cars.

sa meredith · 05-12-2011, 12:06 PM

Maxum...there are so many slices of bad info in your post, I don't know where to begin. They are all just typical, steriotypical, BS concepts. I will not get into a war with you...just know that much of what you say is awful.
My favorite, and only point I will attack. I love where you tell people to make a deal..a deal, in writing...and then take it to another dealer to beat it. After you just stated "hold their feet to the fire". Should they not be able to "hold your feet to the fire?" So, take a salesman's time. Let him demostrate a vehicle to you. Test drive it. Negotiate. Spend a couple hours there....to simply walk out, AFTER MAKING A DEAL IN WRITING??!! So you did not make a deal...and your word is worth nothing. You have now become the liar! And the scumbag. You took all their time, and made a deal...to leave and just go ask someone else to do no work, and they should get the deal? Christ almighty...that makes sense to you?
Here's how we fix people like you...rememeber, you broke the deal first, not the dealer.
Upon you returning to break the deal YOU MADE, the dealer should just say, "OK then. You win. Here's an even better price" And give you the most god awful, unrealist price ever...an immposibly low, not real price. And tell you the papers and car will be ready in a day or so. And then when you return, simply tell you..."oh we're sorry. We have to break the deal. Now...we've wasted each other's time. Haven't we?"
Make a good deal people...but don't be scumbags.
Maxum...you are so freakin wrong when you say the salesaman is not on your side, and does not have your best interest in mind. WRONG WRONG WRONG!
All they want to do is make a deal...never mind price. A new vehicle pays a flat rate...so you are wrong...the price does not matter to the salesman even a little bit. Know what you are talking about, before trying to dispense advice. Really.
I enjoyed my job, and made a great living for 22 years, BY HAVING THE CUSTOMERS BEST INTEREST IN MIND. I listened to their needs (vehicle, finacial concers, whatever) and always worked very hard to match the right customer to right vehicle...and try to make a deal benificial to both the dealership and customer. Don't tell me the saleman does not have the customer's best interest in mind. Get a clue!

Steveo · 05-12-2011, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sa meredith

... So, both parties nagotiate...the sales rep in good faith...the lieing customer, not so much. ...If you lie, expect to be lied to. We reap what we sow in this world.

Trust your own ability to negotiate, find a professional sales rep, and enter into a relationship with him in good faith.... But don't lie. Just wrong.

You talk about the customer not lieing to the dealership but the whole process of buying a car is built on deception, basically a lie. The dealer lists the car at full price, fully knowing that it can't sell at that price. Customer comes in and has to start negotiating with the rep. The reps job is to get the most for that car. If the customer asks in the beginning "give me the best price you can go". No way in hell the first time the rep gives the best price, it takes several "oh I don't know, I'll have to check with my manager, blah,blah,blah" So why isn't THAT lieing when the first price back from the rep isn't the best. The reason why I mentioned Portsmouth Ford as a good place is because the first price is the only price and the best price. I just don't know why car dealerships have to stick to this archaic dance of deception.

sa meredith · 05-12-2011, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steveo

You talk about the customer not lieing to the dealership but the whole process of buying a car is built on deception, basically a lie. The dealer lists the car at full price, fully knowing that it can't sell at that price. Customer comes in and has to start negotiating with the rep. The reps job is to get the most for that car. If the customer asks in the beginning "give me the best price you can go". No way in hell the first time the rep gives the best price, it takes several "oh I don't know, I'll have to check with my manager, blah,blah,blah" So why isn't THAT lieing when the first price back from the rep isn't the best. The reason why I mentioned Portsmouth Ford as a good place is because the first price is the only price and the best price. I just don't know why car dealerships have to stick to this archaic dance of deception.

Well steveo..define "the best price". What is it in your mind? Anything you want...a flat dollar numer for profit...or a percentage of cost? What exactly is "the best price"? Is $300 a fair profit on a $25000 item? I say no. But would I take it? Maybe. If I need to hit a quota, and have 3 days left to do it, would I except $200? Yeah, probably. How about hours left to hit it? $50/100...maybe.
Tell me...what is the best price? The maufacture tells us we should be near sticker, less factory rebates (so, net often 2500/3000 under sticker) . Over the last few years, the margin of invoice to sticker has dropped significantly. A Ford Focus often had only 400/600 sticker to invoice. Is sticker fair? No? OK..can we make $200.
Do you want the best price Steveo...define it for me?
By the way...if the customer comes in, and the first thing he does is start negotiating as you say...the sales person had not done their job, and is not a professional.
An intial interview should be done..needs assessmant, finanacial concers, priorities (is the cheapest possible car the priority, or the highest available seating).
A thorough walk around presentation, test drive, demonstaration of accessories. If indeed the proper vehicle is selected, and the customer has already decided that this is the make and model they want, then and only then a discussion about the price should take place. If all the customer is interested in is price price price, it is possible a huge mistake could take place. Maybe you already have a price and the next place goes along with you, and skips all the steps...and goes right to price...only later to learn the model we are talking about has a 4 cyl instead of 6. Maybe is has no Navi, and the other one did. Maybe their's had a moonroof, and mine does not. Maybe theirs had 20" wheel, and mine 18". Now, yeah, I crushed their price...but, upon further review, my vehcicle is no where near as nice as the one you already got a price on. But all you wanted to talk about was price price price. And all we did was waste a lot of time.
If you are with the right sales professional, the experience can become very smooth and stress free and he can indeed offer helpful suggestions.
What's you best price? I don't know...10 bucks?

RailroadJoe · 05-12-2011, 01:26 PM

SA MERIDITH You spend too much time typing. Get off the soap box.

Merrymeeting · 05-12-2011, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sa meredith

Edmonds...KBB...Consumer Reports...christ, do you read a manual before using the toilet?

While I agree with much of what you have written here, I disagree with this point.

No, don't need a manual for the toilet as it's something I've been doing multiple times a day for my whole life. But whenever I make a major purchase, yes, I do a lot of research, especially for something that is the 2nd biggest purchase I make after a house, and one I only do every dozen years or so.

To your points, if a salesperson is dealing in good faith, they should have no problem with me coming in already knowing what a reasonable deal would be, and we negotiate, in good faith, from there. I recognize that he or she most likely has a family to feed and needs to make a reasonable profit. (fwiw, my brother was a car salesman for many years. I know how it can work and what a "reasonable" profit is)

A real example of why the car salesperson has retained the stereotype that many perceive... when I was shopping this time, one of the first places I went was the dealer where I bought my last car. I had been pleased with the purchase and had the vehicle serviced there for many years. In other words, I was a good, long-time customer. I went in there fully intending to make a deal.

We discussed what I was looking for and I went out for a test drive.

Upon returning, he mentioned that he had pulled the records while I was out and could see I was a good customer. I told him that I was interested in the truck, but I didn't want a long, extended, negotiation. I asked him to give me his best price, expecting to hear something reasonably close to what my research had indicated was the going rate for that model. I was even prepared for something about $1K over invoice as a place to start.

He looked at me and quoted list price. Stunned, I quietly asked, "That's the best you can do?". He said, "Yes, that's the best I can do."

I stood up, walked out, and will never return to that dealer. As you've stated, I'll treat you with respect if you treat me the same.

brk-lnt · 05-12-2011, 03:27 PM

sa_meredith:

I understand your perspective on this, and from your posts it seems like you're getting wound up about it more than necessary.

Not to be a grammer/spelling nazi, but you have a TON of annoying errors in your posts that makes some of what you write come across as "traditional car salesman". Take some time to proofread your posts and use a spell checker. They don't have to be perfect, but you could do better.

Regarding the overall car buying process and negotiation tactics. You do this *every day*, multiple times a day (if you're any good). The average car buyer probably buys 8 new cars in their lifetime, maybe less. You have a tremendous experience advantage over your customer, AND you have all the inside knowledge.

The average car buyer has nothing against you needing to pay your mortgage, but he needs to pay his (or hers) as well. Also, the buyer *knows* that the sticker price is representative of almost nothing, and the first "best" deal offered by the salesman is generally far from what they would actually take (or expect to get).

You say that the car salespeople are just honest decent people, and that may generally be true. But, the Internet is also littered with "inside scoop" from current and former car salesmen that also says otherwise:
http://consumerist.com/2007/03/deale...o-beat-it.html

Like most of these situations, the truth probably lies somewhere in between.

For most people, buying a car is a pretty significant "investment" and expense. Car dealerships have traditionally not built themselves a reputation for having the customers best interest in mind, so it's not surprising that we've wound up in this scenario.

masssteve · 05-12-2011, 04:59 PM

Go to your local dealer, pick out the car you want. Let the sales person help you in selecting the vehicle, thats what they are there for! Let them show you the inside and outsides, the packages, the colors, etc. Get a price on the car and a price for your trade. Then go home. Call 2 other dealers and tell them what you have for a price and see what they can do better. Go back to your local dealer and let them know you got a better price and then they will match or beat it. Buy from your local dealer! When you have a problem they are the ones that will be there for you, not the guy 25 miles away. When you go in for service you will get to know everyone there and they will get to know you. It makes for a better ownership. I have seen people drive 40 miles to save $200. Then in a couple of weeks a check engine light comes on and they want fast service and a loaner car. Sorry folks fast service and loaners go to our customer first, then to customers that bought from other dealers. You would be shocked at how much a dealer makes on selling a new car. Try on average about $1,500 per car and that includes fees collected, and any thing they sell in the finance office. So if you think your going to save thousands going from dealer to dealer your dreaming. It is a very simple process that most people make into a 6 month ordeal with notes, print outs, research, etc. The sale consultant today is not the same from the 80's or even the 90's. Let them do there job and help you get into the car your looking for. You can do the leg work on price with a couple of phone calls.

MAXUM · 05-12-2011, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sa meredith

Maxum...there are so many slices of bad info in your post, I don't know where to begin. They are all just typical, steriotypical, BS concepts. I will not get into a war with you...just know that much of what you say is awful.
My favorite, and only point I will attack. I love where you tell people to make a deal..a deal, in writing...and then take it to another dealer to beat it. After you just stated "hold their feet to the fire". Should they not be able to "hold your feet to the fire?" So, take a salesman's time. Let him demostrate a vehicle to you. Test drive it. Negotiate. Spend a couple hours there....to simply walk out, AFTER MAKING A DEAL IN WRITING??!! So you did not make a deal...and your word is worth nothing. You have now become the liar! And the scumbag. You took all their time, and made a deal...to leave and just go ask someone else to do no work, and they should get the deal? Christ almighty...that makes sense to you?
Here's how we fix people like you...rememeber, you broke the deal first, not the dealer.
Upon you returning to break the deal YOU MADE, the dealer should just say, "OK then. You win. Here's an even better price" And give you the most god awful, unrealist price ever...an immposibly low, not real price. And tell you the papers and car will be ready in a day or so. And then when you return, simply tell you..."oh we're sorry. We have to break the deal. Now...we've wasted each other's time. Haven't we?"
Make a good deal people...but don't be scumbags.
Maxum...you are so freakin wrong when you say the salesaman is not on your side, and does not have your best interest in mind. WRONG WRONG WRONG!
All they want to do is make a deal...never mind price. A new vehicle pays a flat rate...so you are wrong...the price does not matter to the salesman even a little bit. Know what you are talking about, before trying to dispense advice. Really.
I enjoyed my job, and made a great living for 22 years, BY HAVING THE CUSTOMERS BEST INTEREST IN MIND. I listened to their needs (vehicle, finacial concers, whatever) and always worked very hard to match the right customer to right vehicle...and try to make a deal benificial to both the dealership and customer. Don't tell me the saleman does not have the customer's best interest in mind. Get a clue!

I got a clue. I shopped 7 dealerships for my new truck. The price spread between the highest "lowest possible price" and what I actually spent was close to 4K. I'm sure all those sales guys had my best interest in mind.

Bottom line, do your research, hone in on exactly what you want, figure out the exact dealer cost, factory incentives and rebates (that are public knowledge) and be an educated consumer. Dealers are not in the business of selling cars to take a loss, no deal is struck if they are knowingly loosing money. The only one to look out for your best interest is yourself.

SA - you'd probably hate selling me anything huh?

Oh and for the record here I have no problem with profit margin, that's what keeps the doors open and lights on and employees paid. It's like you said, what is fair?

The Eagle · 05-13-2011, 06:32 AM

Hi Gang,
This has been a very interesting series of posts. I have to say "Sa Meredith," has "hit the nail on the head," many times, and I would deal with him anytime, although I've never met him. I too, worked as a car salesmen MANY years ago, (in the 1970's) in Mass, for a dealership that was NOT High pressure, but a family owned for generations and honorable as you can get. BUT we had to compete with places like "Wilmington Ford," and "Hallissey Chevrolet," where once the salesmen got their hooks on you, you didn't (couldn't) leave without making the deal. They'd take your key for an appraisal and then you have to "Find the appraiser," to get your keys back to leave, but in the meantime a "Closer" (Manager) whould come out to high pressure you. Those days are OVER and have been for years. Howver, there are still some dealerships that use high pressure. They'd have all kinds of "add on's", (rust proof, floor mats, pin stripes, vinyl roofs, side mouldings) anything to kick the price up. Now the cars come standard with just about anything you'd want. A good salesman, DOES care about you and what you NEED! HE will take the time to show you everything, and by you knowing what you need, and how much you have to spend, helps them, help you. They ONLY get paid when they make a deal. New cars have minimal markups, and car salesmen make a set commission no matter how much the car sells for, so they ARE on your side. Used cars are totally different! I reccomended "Eddie" at Lannan Chevrolet in Woburn MA, because he is my son, and he has been with them for over 8 years. His customers love him because he takes the time (as Sa Meredith says he should) to greet the customer, listen to their needs, and help them select the best "fit" for their needs. Explains every detail of the car and it's options, and then he does it all over again, when he delivers the new car to the customer. Price? I have bought cars from Lannan, (before my son worked there) and once, I never even asked for the price of the car. I told them what I wanted, they got it and I bought it without ever even asking the final price. I have dealt with them since before my son was a salesman, and trusted them. They knew if they screwed me, I'd never be back. I have bought over 7 new cars from them since. I would rather pay MORE to good reputable dealership and get great service, when I need it, then drive 25 miles to save $100, and then need service and have them ask "who are you, and where did you buy it?" It's time to drop all the old "stereotypes" of car salesmaen (with probably a few exceptions.) They will help you, and American Cars ARE better built than foriegn cars! Thank you, Sa Meredith, for your posts and for enlightening the motoring public about the "Truths" to shopping for new cars in todays markets!
The Eagle

The Eagle · 05-13-2011, 08:13 AM

Hi Gang,
This has been a very interesting series of posts. I have to say "Sa Meredith," has "hit the nail on the head," many times, and I would deal with him anytime, although I've never met him. I too, worked as a car salesmen MANY years ago, (in the 1970's) in Mass, for a dealership that was NOT High pressure, but family owned for generations and honorable as you can get. BUT, we had to compete with places like "Wilmington Ford," and "Hallissey Chevrolet," where once the salesmen got their hooks on you, you didn't (couldn't) leave without making the deal. They'd take your key for an appraisal and then you have to "Find the appraiser," to get your keys back to leave, but in the meantime a "Closer" (Manager) whould come out to high pressure you. Those days are OVER and have been for years. However, there are still some dealerships that use high pressure. They'd have all kinds of "add on's", (rust proof, floor mats, pin stripes, vinyl roofs, side mouldings) anything to kick the price up. RUN away from those dealerships! Now the cars come standard with just about anything you'd want. A good salesman, DOES care about you, and what you NEED! HE will take the time to show you everything, and by you knowing what you need, and how much you have to spend, it helps them, help you. They ONLY get paid when they make a deal. New cars have minimal markups, and car salesmen make a set commission, no matter how much the car sells for, so they ARE on your side. Used cars are totally different! I mentioned, "Eddie" at Lannan Chevrolet in Woburn MA, because he is my son, and he has been with them for over 8 years. His customers love him because he takes the time (as Sa Meredith says he should) to greet the customer, listen to their needs, and help them select the vehicle with the best "fit" for their needs. Explains every detail of the car and it's options, and then he does it all over again, after the sale, when he delivers the new car to the customer. Price? 'You get what you pay for!" I have bought cars from Lannan, (way before my son worked there) and once, I never even asked for the price of the car. I told them what I wanted, they got it, and I bought it without ever even asking the final price. I have dealt with them since before my son was a salesman, and trusted them. They knew if they screwed me, I'd never be back. I have bought over 7 new cars from them since. I would rather pay MORE to good reputable dealership and get great service, when I need it, then drive 25 miles to save $100, and then have a need service, and have them ask "who are you, and where did you buy it?" It's time to drop all the old "stereotypes" of car salesmen (with probably a few exceptions.) They want to, and will help you, and American Cars ARE better built than foreign cars! Thank you, Sa Meredith, for your posts and for enlightening the motoring public about the "Truths" to shopping for new cars in todays markets!
The Eagle

jrc · 05-13-2011, 08:39 AM

It is interesting to have "new" topic on the forum, even if only tangentally lake related.

Like most people, I've purchased new and used cars, it's a negotiation just like any other major purchase. The salesman is a professional negotiator, and usually the buyer isn't. So you, the buyer, needs to do whatever you can do to level the playing field.

Get educated. All negotiations are based on deception. The less you know the easier it is to pay too much. I think it is silly to call negotiating lying.

Buying a car is like playing poker, if you could see all your opponents cards, you could always place the proper bet. But you can't see all his cards, so why would you show him all yours?

His advantage is that he knows more than you, your advantage is that he needs to sell or he doesn't eat. Usually you can survive without a new car, he can't survive without selling.

Grady223 · 05-13-2011, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrc

It is interesting to have "new" topic on the forum, even if only tangentally lake related.

Like most people, I've purchased new and used cars, it's a negotiation just like any other major purchase. The salesman is a professional negotiator, and usually the buyer isn't. So you, the buyer, needs to do whatever you can do to level the playing field.

Get educated. All negotiations are based on deception. The less you know the easier it is to pay too much. I think it is silly to call negotiating lying.

Buying a car is like playing poker, if you could see all your opponents cards, you could always place the proper bet. But you can't see all his cards, so why would you show him all yours?

His advantage is that he knows more than you, your advantage is that he needs to sell or he doesn't eat. Usually you can survive without a new car, he can't survive without selling.

I have been very successful on new cars using 2 of Consumer Reports' products:
Bottom Line Price Report - go in give them your price and walk out if they don't match it
Build & Buy Service - build you car on line, local dealers submit bids to you. Bought my son a Honda Fit a couple months ago and got it for $400 less than I would have been willing to pay based on the Bottom Line Price Report.

ITD · 05-13-2011, 10:55 AM

I hate buying cars. I hate salesmen who refer to a potential purchase as your "investment". I have no qualms about walking out on a salesman. Every new car I've purchased (last one in 2008) had the salesman needing approval from the manager before a deal could be done. Dealerships' service departments continually disappoint me. I find it very hard to believe that a dealership can survive on a few hundred above invoice. I take consumer reports with a grain of salt.

Wow, that was a pretty negative post I just wrote, what was the original question???

SIKSUKR · 05-13-2011, 01:29 PM

I don't understand sa being upset about not telling the salesman you want to trade before negotiating.What's the big deal?Isn't the trade in worth the same before and after you negotiate?Give him the price you would have plugged into the deal in the first place.If that is a problem after the fact then the salesman was the one being deceiptfull.

sa,please feel free to correct me but why does it matter when a trade in is disclosed?

Grady223 · 05-13-2011, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

I don't understand sa being upset about not telling the salesman you want to trade before negotiating.What's the big deal?Isn't the trade in worth the same before and after you negotiate?Give him the price you would have plugged into the deal in the first place.If that is a problem after the fact then the salesman was the one being deceiptfull.

sa,please feel free to correct me but why does it matter when a trade in is disclosed?

You never know what price you get for the car or the trade. I find negotiating them each separately gets you the best deal. Plus I usually sell the "trade" on my own.

Waterbaby · 05-13-2011, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheProfessor

Good point about trade-ins.

According to Consumer Reports. Never mention the trade in until the deal is struck for the new car. Period.

It is best to sell your used car outright and use your local newspaper. All newspapers have classifieds in print AND on line. You can sell it before or after you purchase your new car.

But, if you must trade in the older car then do what Consumer Reports states. Park way away from front door of dealership. Don't mention trade in. If they ask. Then just state that you are not sure. Tell the truth. And the truth is at that very moment you are not sure.

Once you obtain the final cost of new car including ALL of the dealer add-ons that may or may not contain dealer prep., title preparation, dealer advertising, regional advertising, national advertising, gas tank fill up, and the list can go on and on. Once you obtain the final final price then and only then do you state that you are trading in your old car. If you do not do this as Consumer Reports recommends ALL of the numbers are skewed and are not real as far as the value or amount of the trade in car.

My dad spent his whole life as a car salesman, as did my grandfather, and they both taught me the same thing about trade-ins........... If you show the trade first the salesperson makes it look, on paper, as if you are getting a great amount of money for the trade when in actuality the price goes up on the car you are buying and you end up getting wholesale - or less - for the trade.

TheProfessor · 05-13-2011, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grady223

You never know what price you get for the car or the trade. I find negotiating them each separately gets you the best deal. Plus I usually sell the "trade" on my own.

This is basically what I stated above. Two distinct issues and prices.

But it looks like some above jumped to the conclusion that this is a lie to the salesman/woman. And I was quoting Consumer Reports. Consumer Reports advises to do this.

Lucy Goose · 05-15-2011, 09:09 AM

Thank you all for your help and advice. We bought a car on Friday through some advice of a fellow forum member at Lovering Volvo in Meredith. A nice Mitsubishi Galant 2009 like brand new with only 12k on it and a 5/60 warranty remaining. They were very nice and speedy as well. Should be a good commuter car with fairly good gas mileage. Better than our caddy was getting which we got from Banks. Died with only 86000 on it. We went down there but they didn't want to offer anything up for it and didn't have much in the lot. We weren't real impressed with them. Too bad, my father went to them for years, but every sales person is different.

Argie's Wife · 05-15-2011, 10:48 AM

Congrats on the new ride!

That's a sweet looking ride.... I hope you got a red one. (Red = goes faster).

By the way, when I'm ready for a new/used car, I can find all this info, including how to honestly deal with the sales-end of the process on www.cars.com. When I'm not in the market, I love listening to Car Talk - it's almost as much fun as this thread!

BroadHopper · 05-15-2011, 01:10 PM

EBay is a great place to pick up used autos and boats. When the economy was sour a couple of years ago, dealers were auctioning off brand new cars and trucks!

My GF bought a used 2000 Mercedes SL convertible with only 60K miles on it for half the NADA price. We had to drive to Canada to get it. Been two years with no problems.

I bought a 2001 Jeep Cherokee with only 60K for only 9K. Had it for year with no problems. Funny thing with this purchase, the jeep was located in Laconia!

Four years ago I bought a 1988 Formula F223 LS at a third of the NADA price. The 9 hour drive to Maryland wasn't bad. I had a chance to boat the Potomac River. Again, no problem with the boat.

With EBay, you have to be patient, know the value of you purchase, srt a limit on how much you want to bid. EBay and Paypal will guarantee your purchase. There are some sweet deals out there!

jmen24 · 05-17-2011, 01:29 PM

OK, I will admit that I am pressed for time and was not able to read through all the posts above, so forgive me if this question has been answered above.

I just came back from a vacation in Florida, while down there I spent a small amount of time researching new vehicle prices. Next year, my lease is up on my truck and will be sending it back. I am looking to get back into a full size 4-door truck. Mainly the F-150 or 250. I have a year to figure that out, as well a another week a vaction next May (my lease turn in is in May 2012 as well).

While reviewing pricing on the exact same option vehicle in Florida as the one I found in NH, I noticed that the advertised price (from multiple dealerships, without the down payment fine print) started at 10K less than the starting price in NH. And was over 8K less than the negotiated price that a friend just made on the same model and featured truck.

The question is, is there something that I am not aware of that is causing this price difference? If not, than a purchase would be made during the next vacation and then either driven back or delivery would be arranged. I read through the fine print multiple times and contacted one dealer directly and got the same price verification. These are 2011 F-150 Lariat model trucks, new. The one in Florida actually had a nicer wheel package, as well as power running boards to boot (not that the power running boards are something I am looking for and would probably have removed)

Thanks in advance for the help.

ishoot308 · 05-17-2011, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmen24

OK, I will admit that I am pressed for time and was not able to read through all the posts above, so forgive me if this question has been answered above.

I just came back from a vacation in Florida, while down there I spent a small amount of time researching new vehicle prices. Next year, my lease is up on my truck and will be sending it back. I am looking to get back into a full size 4-door truck. Mainly the F-150 or 250. I have a year to figure that out, as well a another week a vaction next May (my lease turn in is in May 2012 as well).

While reviewing pricing on the exact same option vehicle in Florida as the one I found in NH, I noticed that the advertised price (from multiple dealerships, without the down payment fine print) started at 10K less than the starting price in NH. And was over 8K less than the negotiated price that a friend just made on the same model and featured truck.

The question is, is there something that I am not aware of that is causing this price difference? If not, than a purchase would be made during the next vacation and then either driven back or delivery would be arranged. I read through the fine print multiple times and contacted one dealer directly and got the same price verification. These are 2011 F-150 Lariat model trucks, new. The one in Florida actually had a nicer wheel package, as well as power running boards to boot (not that the power running boards are something I am looking for and would probably have removed)

Thanks in advance for the help.

Don't forget to add in Florida sales tax and whatever other fees never noted in price quotes.

jmen24 · 05-17-2011, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Don't forget to add in Florida sales tax and whatever other fees never noted in price quotes.

OK, that would make sense, but are we (as NH residents) required to pay sales tax in another state for a large ticket purchase?

I didn't think we had too, but then again this is new to me and that was something I was told.

I do understand that some taxes and fees are associated and not included in the advertised vehicle price, but that should be close (within a 1K) to a wash from state to state.

I purchase cabinet grade materials for my custom cabinetry and furniture side business, in Vermont (the closest location to me for quality furniture grade lumber), but because my projects are in NH, I do not pay VT Sales tax. Other VT suppliers are the same way for windows and doors, purchases made for my primary construction job. I am the buyer and the payer so I review all statements prior to cutting a check.

You may be right on that Dan, that would quantify the difference in sticker price.

ishoot308 · 05-17-2011, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmen24

OK, that would make sense, but are we (as NH residents) required to pay sales tax in another state for a large ticket purchase?

I didn't think we had too, but then again this is new to me and that was something I was told.

I do understand that some taxes and fees are associated and not included in the advertised vehicle price, but that should be close (within a 1K) to a wash from state to state.

I purchase cabinet grade materials for my custom cabinetry and furniture side business, in Vermont (the closest location to me for quality furniture grade lumber), but because my projects are in NH, I do not pay VT Sales tax. Other VT suppliers are the same way for windows and doors, purchases made for my primary construction job. I am the buyer and the payer so I review all statements prior to cutting a check.

You may be right on that Dan, that would quantify the difference in sticker price.

If they deliver the car to you in NH you will not pay taxes. If you take possession of it in Florida you will pay tax on it I believe. I just went through this as I purchased a new vehicle on line from a Pennsylvania dealership about two weeks ago. They delivered it to my home in NH and all was good, no tax paid...

Dan

tis · 05-17-2011, 03:05 PM

We bought and took possession of a car in Fl., having 20 day plates on it, then had it shipped to NH and registered it here. We didn't pay the sales tax.

jrc · 05-17-2011, 03:05 PM

I bought at couple of cars in Massachusettes over the years and picked them up at the dealer in Mass, never paid a nickel in Mass sales tax. I think where you register the car determines the tax not where you pick it up.

ishoot308 · 05-17-2011, 03:18 PM

Funny thing I just purchased a vehicle in NH for my business office in Maryland. Had to sign a paper from dealer saying I was registering it in NH. Drove it down to MD with NH plates and will re-register next year in MD and pay whatever tax is due....

jrc · 05-17-2011, 10:03 PM

nothing is ever simple

jmen24 · 05-18-2011, 06:58 AM

Thanks all for the information. Sounds like some money can be saved but I will ask the proper questions before heading down to do some shopping.

6meter · 05-18-2011, 10:05 AM

Whatever info has been writen on here is good. But it is mostly only opinion. What I like is probabaly different than what you like. It dosen't though make either one of us wrong. People have good and bad experiences at all car dealers. I've worked at several and seen it. I suggest visiting several and drive several different cars. YOU make your own opinion, because that will be the only one that counts for you.

Patiently Watching · 05-18-2011, 12:18 PM

Westboro Toyota and 128 Volvo in MA are both fantastic.
If you are buying from NH and taking title in NH, you won't pay state taxes either.
After buying several cars from Lakes Region dealers over the past few years, including 2 Toyota's from Irwin, I was in the market for another car this March. Knowing exactly what I wanted, I called and spoke with a salesperson at Irwin (the one I used previously is no longer there) who provided me with inaccurate information about the 2011 Toyota model I was calling about and only wanted to sell what he had on floor.
After a few of these frustrating calls, I contacted Westboro Toyota who made the trade of my other vehicle and the purchase of the new one hands off.
I never left my desk and by weeks end the new car was delivered to my office and at a much better price than any local dealer would touch.
Generally I'm 100% for buying local, but my recent car buying attempts didn't work out that way.

05-10-2011, 07:58 PM	#1
Lucy Goose Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 228 Thanks: 29 Thanked 108 Times in 29 Posts	Shopping for new car time, opinions on dealerships wanted. So the dreaded shopping for a new vehicle begins unexpectedly. We had thought that our car which only had 86000k on it would have lasted a few more years but... So, anyone who wants to chime in on experience with dealerships up in this area please feel free. We are looking for a commuter car that will get really good gas mileage and not looking to spend a lot of money since we were not expecting this at this time. We have always bought our cars in southern NH so wondering what everyone thinks of the dealerships up here? Thanks in advance! Lucy Goose

05-10-2011, 08:43 PM	#2
upthesaukee Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Alton Bay Posts: 5,547 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 2,397 Thanked 1,918 Times in 1,061 Posts	Toyota Corolla I bought my 2010 Toyota Corolla from Irwin Toyota. Loved the treatment I got buying the car, my service (two years / 24000 miles free routine maintenance) has been great, and I have started bringing my wife's Trailblazer there. PM me and I will give you my salesperson's name. Dave __________________ I Live Here... I am always UPTHESAUKEE !!!!

05-10-2011, 08:43 PM	#3
trfour Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Lakes, Central NH. and Dallas/Fort Worth TX. Posts: 3,694 Blog Entries: 3 Thanks: 3,069 Thanked 472 Times in 236 Posts	Here's A Five Star Operation... That friends of mine in the area swear by ( And Not At ). http://www.irwinzone.com/ Cantin is very good as well; http://www.cantins.com/ Terry _________________________ __________________ *trfour* Always Remember, The Best Safety Device In The Boat, or on a PWC Snowmobile etc., Is YOU! Safe sledding tips and much more; http://www.snowmobile.org/snowmobiling-safety.html

05-11-2011, 06:29 AM	#7
Belmont Resident Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Belmont NH but prefer Jackman Maine Posts: 1,857 Thanks: 491 Thanked 409 Times in 251 Posts	Banks for GM My wife bought 3 GM trucks and all came from Banks. Cantins was never willing to come close to their pricing. At one point a salesman said to her that if he was shopping and got that price he would buy there. I thought that was odd. But I will say that Cantins service dept performed all the work on all of our GM trucks and they were always a pleasure to deal with. I’ve always had issues with Irwin’s service dept and their prices are significantly higher than other Ford dealers in the area and they don’t seem willing to work with you. Unfortunately Irwin’s service dept was the best of the lot so I did deal with them until my truck warranty expired and I now use Winnipesaukee truck for my diesel truck needs. Amazing how much less you pay for service at a repair shop verses the dealer, and much more personal. If you’re interested in Hyundai, my wife bought at Belmont and they have been a pleasure to deal with. The Hyundai Santé fee is a much better vehicle the RAV4 she had before it. Hope this helps.

05-11-2011, 06:44 AM	#8
The Eagle Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Burlington MA & Moultonboro NH Posts: 218 Thanks: 17 Thanked 141 Times in 33 Posts	New Car time Hi Luckygoose, I agree 100% with the "Professor." It is a great time to buy American! My CHEVROLET Tahoe lease is up in August and I am going to buy a Chevrolet Equinox. Great mileage, fantastic quality, and rated higest in SUV's crossovers. I considered the Chevrolet Malibu as well, but I like the Crossover SUV. Years ago American cars got "Bad Press," for their quality, but I have owned "New Generation," Chevy's now for many years and have never had any quality problems with any of them. I had owned 2 Caprice Estate Wagons, A Suburban, 2 TrailBlazers, my wife owns an Impala SS (Fantastic car), my son drives a Silverado Pickup, and a Camaro SS, and I still own my origional Camaro RS (1990) which sits in my garage in mint shape. You can't go wrong with a Chevy and it helps OUR AMERICAN economy! As Diana Shore sang, "See the USA in a Chevrolet, America is asking your to come!" Just to throw in a pitch..I bought ALL my Chevy's at Lannan Chevrolet in Woburn, MA! Friendly family dealership, no high pressure at all, great service. Ask for "Eddie" (Sales) if you go there, he knows "The Eagle" well, and takes great care of me! "The Eagle"

05-11-2011, 04:04 AM	#4
VitaBene Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 3,530 Thanks: 1,570 Thanked 1,601 Times in 821 Posts	We just used Banks Chevrolet in Concord. They were a pleasure to deal with. I know it is really not north, but it is only an hour drive for us.

05-11-2011, 06:57 AM	#9
BroadHopper Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Laconia NH Posts: 5,509 Thanks: 3,116 Thanked 1,089 Times in 783 Posts	Concord Auto Dealers I've heard wonderful stories about dealing with the dealers in Concord. From sales to service. I was shopping for a Chevy for my in laws and Banks is far better to deal with than Cantin. Shopped for a Subaru and Reilly of Concord gave me a better deal than Belknap. Just before I bought the car, Belknap called and they will give me the same car plus 10% off if I bought it from them! If they wanted my business that bad, they would have given me the low price to begin with. I don't play games. Irwin's is a different story. If you buy off the lot, they will give you a good deal. If you do a special order, all deals are off the table and you pay almost the mfg price. Service is mediocre. Not sure if it is the mfg fault or the dealer. My best friend 2008 Ford F-150 is loaded to the gills and he had nothing but electrical problems with it. He's been to three dealership in trying to fix it and no one can cure it. A letter to Ford and a visit from a factory representative results in a free extended bumper to bumper warrantee. That does not cover all the headache of putting up with the electrical gremlins and trips to the dealer. I say, do your homework. Edmunds and KBB wil give you the wholesale price of the car. I'm sure there will be other kickbacks from the mfg that are not reported. it is a start. Go on to the mfg websites and search the dealers inventory for the exact car you want. Call that dealer for the best price and go from there. My last truck I found with the options I want was in a NJ dealership. They quoted me a price. I called all the Dodge dealerships in NH and ask for a quote of a truck with the same options. Prices vary in $100s, one dealer was $1000s off. Alen Mello in Nashua gave me the best price. They even shipped the truck I want from NJ at no additional cost! Don't be afraid to travel for the best price. Service managers don't care where you brought the car, they just want your business. Salesmen will tell you that you can't get service at their dealer if you bought the car elsewhere. That's bull. I never believe anything a salesman tells me. __________________ Someday may never be an actual day.

05-11-2011, 07:41 AM	#10
AllAbourdon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 61 Thanks: 22 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Having just bought and sold a few vehicles in this past month I made some "irrational" decisions on what we bought. Generally I make a decision on what I want more than what is sensible. Heck, we own a boat. If you can find one reasonably priced a used Mercedes with the Bluetec engine wouldnt steer you wrong. The mercedes diesels are very very quiet, you wouldnt know they are diesel and they are almost the cleanest running vehicle on the road right now. Diesel is a bit more money at the pump but those cars such as the e350 and ml350 diesels are churning out over 600 miles out of a tank. On the other hand, my father has been running a toyota yaris as a commuter car for the last few years and loves it. Far less maintenance than the ford focus that he had. Actually, went through 2 fords, a wagon and a hatchback. The geo metro got better milage than pretty much anything on the road today and those cars were just about maintenance free. Nothing but brake changes and oil changes up to about 250K miles.

05-11-2011, 09:04 AM	#11
birchhaven Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 132 Thanks: 14 Thanked 54 Times in 30 Posts	Quirk I could write for days about how bad Quirk in Manchester is, always bought cars from Mr. Dobles, when Quirk bought them things went down hill incredibly bad. I can can not think of the words to describe how bad they are and I am the idiot who keeps giving them another shot.

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05-11-2011, 09:14 AM	#12
SAMIAM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 2,836 Thanks: 326 Thanked 1,626 Times in 562 Posts	The Professor is right about warrantie's.....first thing they do after the sale is try to hard sell a warranty for $1,200 that costs them 2 or 3 hundred and is not needed in most cases.

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05-11-2011, 10:10 AM	#13
Merrymeeting Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Merrymeeting Lake, New Durham Posts: 2,217 Thanks: 299 Thanked 795 Times in 365 Posts	I just purchased a truck from Granite Ford on Rt 11 in Rochester. I had previous good experiences with the service department on an older vehicle. My purchase experience reinforced my good feelings about this dealership. If you are looking for a Ford, I would recommend them.

05-11-2011, 10:19 AM	#14
sa meredith Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 986 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 32 Thanked 352 Times in 137 Posts	car buying Lucy Goose... Not sure if you meant Brand New, or new to you. I assumed "new to you", but whatever. Let me say this, as someone who has been in the auto business 22 years, all at the same dealership, and worked their way from Salesman, to Sales Manager, to GM. The funny thing about this business is that everyone is an expert. Everyone "knows a guy". Everyone has a story. It's the darndess thing. It I have a leaky faucet, I'll call a plumber. A leaky roof, a roofer. But cars??? No need to call anyone...everybody is an expert. So...I will not write a lengthy post agreeingwith or refuting the many things you have been told here, but touch on a couple of high lights, if you choose to read them. First of all, with regard to your intial post..."weare looking for a commuter car, that gets really good gas mileage and not looking to spend a lot of money". Yes, of course. You and the rest of the entire country. What I mean by this is simply this: It is the equivillant of looking for a 4 x 4 plow truck,on the eve of the first major blizzard. Demand will out weigh supply. If you find exactly what you are looking for, don't be surprised if the dealer does not completely bend over backward to make a deal with you. There are 5 more people walking inthe door that want exactly what you do. In an age of people taking jobs whereverthey can find them and will to drive great distances, and an age of $4 gas...well, do the math. The market on great gas mileage, cheap, commuter cars is very strong. Stealing one will prove to be a difficult thing. Possibly consider searching thru private sale. Eliminate the middle man. Someone mention "never buy an aftermarket" warrenty on a used car. Yes, great advice. Trying to make a claim on one is the same as trying to solve a calculous problem back in college. Very few people can figure out how to do it. However, a manufacture backed warrenty is highly recommended. A Ford used vehicle ESP (extended service protection), or a GM warrentry are legit things. You can pull into any dealer of that manufacture and the will honor the warrenty...regardless of where is was purchased. Although some dealers have very rugged, old school, hard core procedures that salesman must follow (like Quirk...stay away) and are the types of places that will tourture you for hours, there are many place that are pleasant to deal with. Usually, a dealerships reputation is going to bebased on the type of salesman you ran in to. A pleasant, helpful, knowledgable sales consultant can make you say "wow, what a great place" however, your neighbor may have gone there and had a different salesperson, and swears never to return. So, if you visit dealerships, don't be one of these people horrified when asked "may I help you" and saythe standard "just looking". Tell them what you are looking for, what you hope to accomplish, and a rough of idea of the type of finacial commitment you are lokking to make. A true professional will use the information correctly, and steer you in the right direction, and offer some helpful advice. A professional. A quick buck, dishonest salesman genarelly has very little knowledge of his product, and won't pay much attetion to what you are saying, so it should not be that difficult to quickly identify the type of person you are dealing with. If uncomfortable, simply say thanks, for today you would just liketo browse alone a bit, and are going to leave soon. However, when you find someone who seems to really know what they are taliking about, tries to offer sevaral suggestions...trust your instinct, and the salesperson. Many will indeed have your best interest in mind. This is the way I made very comfortable living for many years and toward the end, had thousand upon thousand repeat customer. Many bought their first, 2nd, and 3rd car, and then came when their children were ready for a car. However, there were many poeple who hated my dealership, simply because they dealt with the wrong people. Go were you want and make your own descision. Also , important...trust me on this...stay away from going somewhere and saying "OH, I know so and so. He sent me". IT DOES NOT MATTER!!!!! THEY DON'T CARE!!!!! They will pretend it matters, but truth be told, a large number of dealerships have pricing policies where, if a customer comes in and says, "I'm a friend of 'this guy' " they will try to make a bit more, simply because they think you might just say OK, and not grind them at all. Find your own way...don't announce you are a referral of anyone. It can hurt more than it helps....90% or the time. I guess alot of this is car buying 101, and I don't mean to insult your intelligence...I just get a kick out of how much everyone is an expert in car sales. Quickly from what you described, I would say a Ford Focus, 3 or 4 yearsold would be a great choice..depending on your budget. It seems you probably keep a car for a long while, so resale value should be of little or no concern to you...I was curious why a poster told you to be careful about resale. From the info you gave, I assumed you are not a frequent trader, and keep a car until it is finished, so resale should play little or no role in your decision. Don't be afraid to have a disinterested third party check the car for condition...a normal dealership will have no problem with it...in fact they should encourage it, if it make you feel more comfortable. And check things that are not going to be covered under your power train warrenty...things you may not think of. All 4 power windows, A/C is ice cold, power locks, sterio C/D player, cruise control, stuff like that. A dealer does not have to stand behind the extras...only the engine, transs, and safety items (NH instection items). If you want to talk with someone I would trust with my own family...a low key, gentleman, who hasbeen selling since 1983, PM me, and I willgive you his name and dealership...and you can call him to talk on the phone first. He is over near Winnisquam. I wish you well...buying a car should not be torture. You should enjoy it, and learn a lot from it. I apologixe for all spelling errors and grammar mistakes in thispost...no time to go thru and fix...typed very quickly Last edited by sa meredith; 05-11-2011 at 11:01 AM.

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05-11-2011, 11:05 AM	#17
dpg Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 2,560 Thanks: 149 Thanked 229 Times in 166 Posts	Know exactly what you want and contact two or three dealers on line and do your business there. I did quite well when purchasing my 2009 Honda. I had two other dealers back off and not come within 1,200 of what I ended up paying. I agreed on a price via emails and simply showed up to sign the papers. 11 months after my purchase I was in the dealers showroom for an oil change and they had my EXACT car on the showroom floor as a "left over" it was marked on clearance $55.00 less than I paid.

05-11-2011, 11:26 AM	#19
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,404 Thanks: 719 Thanked 1,379 Times in 955 Posts	Interesting, it seems we are not the only ones who would have preferred to buy from Cantin but couldn't. We got three prices on our Caddy truck and Cantin was out of the ball game. Being in the Lakes Region, we called them back but they said they couldn't do any better. We ended up buying it in Saco, Maine, although the place in Portsmouth met the price.

05-11-2011, 11:34 AM	#21
Newbiesaukee Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Coral Gables, winter; Long Island, summer Posts: 1,349 Thanks: 922 Thanked 569 Times in 295 Posts	A few minor things to add to the very helpful advice you have been given, particularly from sa Meredith. My wife buys her own cars and goes into the dealer, knowledgeable about what she wants and ready to buy. On too many occasions she has not been taken seriously by the salesman and has walked out. Seems she "needs" a man around, which means me, to buy a car. Sad state of affairs but this is the dealer's loss. These experiences were not in NH. The internet is a tremendous method to gather information about cars and to locate the one you want. But, buyer beware. About 5 years ago we were about to purchase a car 3000 miles away and insisted on seeing the invoice, etc. Seems the specific car we talked about was a year older than was advertised and we were very specific about the model year we wanted; this was not an oversight. We eventually did purchase long distance from another dealer with no problems. We love cars, just don't like to shop for them __________________ "You're only young once, but you can be immature forever."

05-11-2011, 11:50 AM	#22
Steveo Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 523 Thanks: 47 Thanked 123 Times in 63 Posts	Portsmouth Ford I have used Portsmouth Ford several times for both used and new and they have been great. The best part of their dealership is that there is no haggling over price. They discount their cars to a set price and they will not budge from the price. The discounted price are quite good but can also serve you well as a base price you can look for from other dealers. This included trade-ins as well. They give you a fair price for trade-in and will not negotiate.

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05-11-2011, 01:22 PM	#27
TheProfessor Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,062 Thanks: 17 Thanked 326 Times in 198 Posts	There are three ways a new car dealership makes money. 1. New car sales 2. Used car sales 3. Service Service is what pays the bills. So anyone mentioning turning away any service is nuts. That dealership will go out of business. Used car sales is where the dealership makes the annual profit. On average about $2,000 per used car profit. Give or take. Most new car dealerships stick to only used cars 3 years old or less and less then 50,000 miles. With some exceptions. New car sales if almost profitless. Margins are thin. Some sell under invoice. Some even dig into the 3% holdback just to keep sales numbers up. Little profit there. I do agree to shop locally and I do agree to purchase from as local a dealer as possible. Each dealership has a personality. That is set by the owner or general manager. Some dealerships are very good and user friendly while others are lacking in everything. Some of these are big dealerships while others are small dealerships. One added tip that may or may not work. Buy all the Sunday newspapers. Find the car you are looking for in any advertisement. Verify that there is a car in stock for that price. Then take the advertisement to your local new car dealership and ask them if they will match the printed newspaper advertisement price. Most will. You must verify that the advertisement is valid and real and includes all added costs. Be honest. Read the fine print in the newspaper advertisement. Most dealerships will match any advertised price.

05-11-2011, 01:52 PM	#28
Slickcraft Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Welch Island and West Alton Posts: 3,216 Thanks: 1,172 Thanked 2,000 Times in 914 Posts	Five suggestions: 1. Read the Consumers Report annual auto issue (April) for ratings and reliability of vehicles of interest to you. Either buy a copy or visit a library. 2. Then go to the Edmunds web site to look at their reviews and get dealer invoice pricing, holdback info plus current factory incentive info. http://www.edmunds.com/ 3. With some info in hand test drive your top choices. 4. Once a make/model is nailed down and you are ready to buy, and only then, and armed with Edmunds pricing, talk $$ with dealers asking them what they need to get over invoice. Make the trade-in value a separate issue, in reality you will only get wholesale value. If convenient do this at more than one dealer. 5. As many have noted, say no to the hard sell for extended warranties.

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05-11-2011, 02:17 PM	#29
TheProfessor Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,062 Thanks: 17 Thanked 326 Times in 198 Posts	Good point about trade-ins. According to Consumer Reports. Never mention the trade in until the deal is struck for the new car. Period. It is best to sell your used car outright and use your local newspaper. All newspapers have classifieds in print AND on line. You can sell it before or after you purchase your new car. But, if you must trade in the older car then do what Consumer Reports states. Park way away from front door of dealership. Don't mention trade in. If they ask. Then just state that you are not sure. Tell the truth. And the truth is at that very moment you are not sure. Once you obtain the final cost of new car including ALL of the dealer add-ons that may or may not contain dealer prep., title preparation, dealer advertising, regional advertising, national advertising, gas tank fill up, and the list can go on and on. Once you obtain the final final price then and only then do you state that you are trading in your old car. If you do not do this as Consumer Reports recommends ALL of the numbers are skewed and are not real as far as the value or amount of the trade in car.

05-11-2011, 03:43 PM	#30
RailroadJoe Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 620 Thanks: 259 Thanked 158 Times in 100 Posts	Be careful of what they won't tell you. My opinion of car salesmen is just below attorneys.

05-11-2011, 06:42 PM	#32
Belmont Resident Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Belmont NH but prefer Jackman Maine Posts: 1,857 Thanks: 491 Thanked 409 Times in 251 Posts	Another thing to consider, warranty work. Do not quote me on this but to the best of my knowledge GM and Dodge now require you to have all warranty work completed at the dealership the vehicle was purchased at. The factory wants the dealership to own any problems associated with the vehicles.

05-11-2011, 07:55 PM	#34
MAXUM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Kuna ID Posts: 2,755 Thanks: 246 Thanked 1,942 Times in 802 Posts	Edmunds is pretty good at getting invoice pricing both on the base vehicle and on the options that may be installed. They don't necessarily have updated information on preferred option packages and manufacturer's rebates. No question the most important thing before talking a deal seriously is to arm yourself with the invoice pricing AND know exactly what your looking for when it comes time to sit down at the table. Want to know if you got a great deal? Take that invoice price, subtract the destination charge, dealer fees and dealer hold back (all available online). If you got what your looking for at that price or less you did good. If you paid anything over that... well you paid more than you needed to. Now you may say how is it possible to get a vehicle for less than invoice and subtracting all the fees. Oh it is, see the invoice price now a days is still loaded with some dealer incentives that are hidden, and don't forget the dealers make money on volume not necessarily on each unit sold. So the key is to hit the big dealer and press them hard, don't worry they won't make a deal and "loose money" at the same time. If you're really good don't hesitate to negotiate on things they just as soon not even discuss, like for example the kick back they get if you happen to finance the vehicle through the manufacturer. I negotiated an extra $500 bucks out of the dealer by instead of paying cash, financing it - with no pre-payment clause of course which I promptly paid off the first month. Yes it can be done. You'll have to hold your ground and even do like I did and get up and leave since the deal wasn't coming in close enough between what I wanted to pay and what they wanted to sell for. When I left the table we were 3K apart on the price when I came back to buy after a couple of phone calls from the sales manager they came down $2500 I went up $500, in the end I got my new 2011 Toyota Tacoma 4X4 for $1900 UNDER invoice with no dealer fees, prep or destination charge paid. I did have to pay the documentation, but that to me is a fair charge to pay. Oh the sales manager cried he was loosing money - yeah whatever they made money and I told him so much or that deal never would have happened. On the flip side I can tell you right now there is no way right now to get say a Prius for anything under invoice. Remember hold their feet to the fire, the salesman is NOT your friend or doing you any favors, they have a vested interest in getting you to buy at the highest possible price. IF you have a person that's nice and pleasant to work with - great but they are still not your buddy. Dealer or manufacturer extended warranties are nothing but gravy money for the dealers and should be avoided, if you're buying a quality vehicle you don't need it anyways. Never get suckered into any dealer installed options. Finally there is no free lunch with these guys, like service your vehicle here and get "free" (whatever). Nah they aren't doing that as a favor, they are making money by fooling the customer into thinking they are getting something for nothing and up selling service every time you come in. Those big facilities and fancy show rooms on prime real estate exist for a reason - uninformed buyers getting screwed to various degrees. Oh and here's my favorite. Don't hesitate to take all that great information off the web, print it out and bring it with you. Reference it often and un-apologetically. If you don't hear what you want out of one dealer go elsewhere. Even if one dealer has what you want, make a deal for that vehicle at another dealer, they sometimes can cherry pick inventory from each other. Better yet negotiate a deal at one and take it in writing to another and get them to beat it (if they can). If you're buying used that's tougher because "book value" is merely a guide not gospel. There are so many variables in play but the bottom line there is to look around and get a feel for the current market, again only possible after you hone in on exactly what you want. Some things demand higher prices than others just they way it is. Market research will help with that. Condition and a flawless maintenance history trumps mileage. Car fax is your friend never buy without seeing one. Never buy used without having somebody that knows what they are doing give it a once over that is a neutral party. A trained eye can catch most things. Few dirty secrets with used cars. Certified Used means only one thing. The vehicle visually looks acceptable and falls within a certain year and mileage window. Nothing more nothing less. Don't think the dealer spent hours of time nit picking the car - trust me they didn't, or ever will. Certified vehicles usually do carry some incentives like a small warranty and at times special financing deals. Plain on used... on a big dealer lot normally these are cars and trucks that are less than 90K on the ticker, less than 8 years old and are in good enough shape where there is nothing seriously wrong with them and have good curb appeal and can be flipped for minimal or no investment. On a rare occasion you'll see higher mileage cars, those are the exceptional few but the problem is they are very hard to get financing for due to the age or mileage. There is a market for those, up until my last purchase that's always been my sweet spot, 6-8 years old with 100K on the ODO. Not for everyone but if you know what your looking at and what to look for in regards to common problems. Hey I've been known to carry my portable ODBII computer scanner with me and pull codes out of the ECU right in front of the sales man what are they going to say - no? Small car dealers - 90% of the time is a miss. Why? Their inventory is mostly supplied by big dealer cast offs, as I said earlier the dealers only cast off stuff for a reason and usually a good one. I don't waste my time at small dealers. I'm way to particular as to what I'm looking for. Now all that said... if you want to know where I bought my new truck PM me and I'll let you know, don't think it appropriate to advertise anyone in this kind of forum. Would I recommend them? Getting the deal I did took time, research and effort, but in the end they were pretty darn aggressive in their pricing but had to be pushed to get there. That wasn't a strippo model either, it was fully decked out. I think I was treated fair, they didn't try to play any games but again I stood my ground and was prepared to and did walk away. Finally any good deal you may get will be ruined if you trade in something. You can always beat what a dealer will give you in trade selling privately.

05-12-2011, 10:15 AM	#37
sa meredith Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 986 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 32 Thanked 352 Times in 137 Posts	Yep...that's about right!!!!!!!!!! I LOVE IT... I LOVE IT...I LOVE IT... As stated previously, car business is great...every one is an expert. PLEASE! I love the posts suggesting you lie to the dealership. That's just great. What fantastic advice! It's just a piece of crap salesman, right? Lie to him/her...who cares. Park your trade around the corner...tell them you are not trading. So...lie. Great advice. I can tell you as many stories as you would like to read, but will not bore people to death with them, about why you really should not do that...but I will give a couple quick examples. 1st of all...treat people the way you want to be treated. Do you want to be lied to? Yes or no? Why does a dealer need to know? Well, maybe you truly have a very desireable trade, and the dealer will be happy to give you an even better price on the new car to get the trade. Or...how about this. You tell the dealership you have no trade...and that's good, because at the moment, they are struggling a bit, and really can't take big money trades. Your trade is worth 10/12K, and presently the dealership is used car heavy, and would prefer a clean sale. But the sales rep does not have to tell you that upfront, because you just told him/her you have no trade. Great...as far as the sales rep goes, that hurdle is cleared. So, both parties nagotiate...the sales rep in good faith...the lieing customer, not so much. After 3 hours of crunching numbers, and test driving 3 models, and choosing a color, and the sales rep educating you about the car's features...you try to undo your lie and say..."I have a trade". The sales rep should pop you one in the mouth for lieing and wasting his entire afternoon. Here's a clue folks...car sales poeple are not the reps of the 70's/ 80's. They are not the booze drinking, cocaine snorting, woman chasing fools of years ago. They are regular people who need to pay their mortgage, their children's tuition, their electric bill, their cable bill, their taxes...just like everyone else. And it's OK to lie and waste their time??? Are you fried? If you lie, expect to be lied to. We reap what we sow in this world. Edmonds...KBB...Consumer Reports...christ, do you read a manual before using the toilet? Trust your own ability to negotiate, find a professional sales rep, and enter into a relationship with him in good faith. In summer 2007, gas was hitting 4 bucks for the 1st time, and everyone in the country was in a panic. New SUV's or trucks could be bought for a song...6,7,8 K discounts easy to find. But used SUVs/ trucks..no market. No one wanted them. Wholesalers, dealers, customers...there was 0 market for them. We did not want them, and told everyone up front...no trades on SUV/Trucks. Many dealerships had signs made so people knew. Anyway...I had a smart ass come in on a Monday morning to buy a very expensixe F350, gas job. 10/12 MPG at best. Awful, and gas was $4 +. After grinding away for hours, and reaching a deal...my sales rep comes back to me, and says, "this guy just told me he has a 2004 he has to trade, and is upside down" (owes more than it is worth). So, not only does he have a trade I won't take, he owes more than it is worth...which is going to make a deal tough, even in good times. The guy was a real "know it all", and truth be told, a jerk. I had the saleman just abandon him. Leave him sitting in the office. Just ignore him. After 45 minutes he came out, wondering what was happening. I told the customer I had to reprimand the salesman for mistreating a customer, and suspended him. I explained to the jerk, that he should have been told up front that we were not taking trades on trucks, and apologized for the salesman misleading him (of course, I knew full well that the salesman had told the customer this up front) and wasting the customer's time. And, of course, the guy sheepishly tells me that he was told this. So I asked why he lied. And he gives me the standard "oh come on, you guys do it all the time!" And then, I simply suggested he go elswhere. Don't lie people...never good idea. Want to know what your trade is actually worth? At the end of the negotiation, just ask! Say, "if I were to decide to keep my trade in and give it to a family member, could you please tell me what the figure would then be?" It's a fair question, and not a lie. Let me end with this...you go to buy a new home. You decide to put an offer in. Are you not obligated to diclose to the seller/agent, that you can't close, until you sell the home you currently have? Of course you are. It's an important part of the equation. If you are so concerned that a dealership will jumble up the numbers (yes, many will)...simply have the trade appraised, and just insist that as the negotiation moves along the new car price and the trade in price must be kept seperate on the work sheet. Insist on it. If they don't, get up and leave. But don't lie. Just wrong. Last edited by sa meredith; 05-12-2011 at 11:46 AM.

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05-12-2011, 11:12 AM	#38
Happy Gourmand Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Ruskin FL Posts: 1,025 Thanks: 187 Thanked 322 Times in 179 Posts	Right on, SA I was in the car business in the 80's and 90's so I can agree that what you say is spot on. I can honestly say that I was lied to on more occasions than I can recall, and could also come up with dozens and dozens of war stories about how I was treated an a lowly car salesman. Truth is, as I see it, car sales folks are some of the hardest working people I know...with bills, and mortgages just like the rest of us....who'd a thunk? But folks like that aside, It was one of the jobs in my life that I liked the best and tryly enjoyed...aside from the nights, holidays, weekends...and snow days. Ask anybody in the car business what a snow day is...I doubt many of you will believe what we had to do when there was a snowstorm. I enjoyed working a deal with a prospect, and found that it was fairly easy to separate the liars from the buyers. SA, I wonder if we ever crossed paths? I worked for a couple dealerships in Nashoa, and one in Concord.

05-12-2011, 12:06 PM	#40
sa meredith Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 986 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 32 Thanked 352 Times in 137 Posts	Maxum....WHAT???!!! Maxum...there are so many slices of bad info in your post, I don't know where to begin. They are all just typical, steriotypical, BS concepts. I will not get into a war with you...just know that much of what you say is awful. My favorite, and only point I will attack. I love where you tell people to make a deal..a deal, in writing...and then take it to another dealer to beat it. After you just stated "hold their feet to the fire". Should they not be able to "hold your feet to the fire?" So, take a salesman's time. Let him demostrate a vehicle to you. Test drive it. Negotiate. Spend a couple hours there....to simply walk out, AFTER MAKING A DEAL IN WRITING??!! So you did not make a deal...and your word is worth nothing. You have now become the liar! And the scumbag. You took all their time, and made a deal...to leave and just go ask someone else to do no work, and they should get the deal? Christ almighty...that makes sense to you? Here's how we fix people like you...rememeber, you broke the deal first, not the dealer. Upon you returning to break the deal YOU MADE, the dealer should just say, "OK then. You win. Here's an even better price" And give you the most god awful, unrealist price ever...an immposibly low, not real price. And tell you the papers and car will be ready in a day or so. And then when you return, simply tell you..."oh we're sorry. We have to break the deal. Now...we've wasted each other's time. Haven't we?" Make a good deal people...but don't be scumbags. Maxum...you are so freakin wrong when you say the salesaman is not on your side, and does not have your best interest in mind. WRONG WRONG WRONG! All they want to do is make a deal...never mind price. A new vehicle pays a flat rate...so you are wrong...the price does not matter to the salesman even a little bit. Know what you are talking about, before trying to dispense advice. Really. I enjoyed my job, and made a great living for 22 years, BY HAVING THE CUSTOMERS BEST INTEREST IN MIND. I listened to their needs (vehicle, finacial concers, whatever) and always worked very hard to match the right customer to right vehicle...and try to make a deal benificial to both the dealership and customer. Don't tell me the saleman does not have the customer's best interest in mind. Get a clue!

05-12-2011, 01:26 PM	#43
RailroadJoe Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 620 Thanks: 259 Thanked 158 Times in 100 Posts	SA MERIDITH You spend too much time typing. Get off the soap box.

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05-12-2011, 03:27 PM	#45
brk-lnt Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: South Down Shores Posts: 1,937 Thanks: 532 Thanked 568 Times in 334 Posts	sa_meredith: I understand your perspective on this, and from your posts it seems like you're getting wound up about it more than necessary. Not to be a grammer/spelling nazi, but you have a TON of annoying errors in your posts that makes some of what you write come across as "traditional car salesman". Take some time to proofread your posts and use a spell checker. They don't have to be perfect, but you could do better. Regarding the overall car buying process and negotiation tactics. You do this every day, multiple times a day (if you're any good). The average car buyer probably buys 8 new cars in their lifetime, maybe less. You have a tremendous experience advantage over your customer, AND you have all the inside knowledge. The average car buyer has nothing against you needing to pay your mortgage, but he needs to pay his (or hers) as well. Also, the buyer knows that the sticker price is representative of almost nothing, and the first "best" deal offered by the salesman is generally far from what they would actually take (or expect to get). You say that the car salespeople are just honest decent people, and that may generally be true. But, the Internet is also littered with "inside scoop" from current and former car salesmen that also says otherwise: http://consumerist.com/2007/03/deale...o-beat-it.html Like most of these situations, the truth probably lies somewhere in between. For most people, buying a car is a pretty significant "investment" and expense. Car dealerships have traditionally not built themselves a reputation for having the customers best interest in mind, so it's not surprising that we've wound up in this scenario. __________________ [insert witty phrase here] Last edited by brk-lnt; 05-13-2011 at 09:12 AM.