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Old 01-02-2022, 06:56 AM   #1
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Default Grant Island Drowning

I don't understand why people would go out in a kayak when the water is as cold as it is now or in the spring. It is a huge risk. When you fall into that cold water, you are immediately paralyzed so can hardly move to get yourself out.
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Old 01-02-2022, 09:00 AM   #2
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Maybe getting immersed suddenly into 38-degree water can cause shock and panic and an involuntary gasp which makes it much worse with inhalation of water and drowning in 30-seconds.

Thing to do is to not panic, place hand over mouth as you fall into the water, and think positive thought .... I can do this! People can survive in icy water for one hour although the hands and feet start to freeze up in 10-15 minutes. The very first minute is probably the most challenging.

Icy cold Russian underwater woman swim .... https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/14/sport...ntl/index.html ..... 40-year old Russian woman, Yekaterina Nekrasova swam for 85 meters (279-feet) and 90-seconds in Lake Baikal, Siberia, totally underwater on January 7, 2021, the Russian Orthodox Christmas Day with water temp of about 33-degrees wearing a Speedo swim suit, swim cap and swim face mask covering her eyes and nose ...... just do it Ekaterina!!! Her arms and legs movement was a wee bit discombobulated without good continuous movement of the arms same as legs. The air temperature was -6. Apparently, no swim flippers were worn, and she swim the underwater breaststroke.

It was supervised with a support team and access holes cut into the ice above the underwater rope line for increased safety. She was not out there, all alone. Check out the video ..... swimming 279', almost a 300' football field in 90-seconds doing the breaststroke while underwater and under the ice.

What is the purpose for that black ring-collar around her neck seen at the finish in the video? Is that designed to be a rescue handle in case she blacks out?

So, was this an on-the-level honest happening or some type of phony-baloney staged charade? One year later, what do the Guinness World Records people have to say about it?

Lake Winnipesaukee NEEDS an underwater swim event like this to be held at the Great Meredith Rotary Ice Fishing Derby ... https://icefishingnh.com ... next month, February 12-13, 2022. So, where's the ice ....... where-where-where .... is .... the Lake Winnipesaukee ice ...... and where is Ekaterina?
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Old 01-02-2022, 09:08 AM   #3
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I don't understand why people would go out in a kayak when the water is as cold as it is now or in the spring. It is a huge risk. When you fall into that cold water, you are immediately paralyzed so can hardly move to get yourself out.
Wetsuit and dry suit are always on when I go out late and early in the season. The other thing is there aren't any boats to cause extra waves so if you are going out this time of year i would hope that the people are more experienced so the chances of flipping are drastically decreased.
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Old 01-02-2022, 04:05 PM   #4
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https://twitter.com/NH_StatePolice/s...75212078522381 ..... a drowning death report; Saturday night in Wolfeboro intending to paddle to Grant Island, January 1, 2022, approximately 11:05-pm.

https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local...sizes/2603303/ ..... "Police say none of the four paddlers was wearing a life jacket"

Where is Grant Island located on a map?
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Old 01-02-2022, 04:07 PM   #5
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Anyway, three of them were rescued but one died. I don't think it's fair to rescue people to take a chance at this time of year. Yes accidents happen all the time, but going in a canoe which we all know tends to be tippy and a kayak at this time of year is foolish and selfish.
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Old 01-02-2022, 04:55 PM   #6
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A man is dead after his paddle boat capsized on New Hampshire's Lake Winnipesaukee late Saturday night.

New Hampshire Police responded to the lake shortly after 11p.m. after hearing report that people fell into the water.

According to police, two people were aboard a two-person kayak and two people were aboard a canoe that left shore in Woleboro and was headed to Grant Island. A short time later, the paddlers decided to turn around and return to shore when their vessels capsized. All four people tried to swim to the Grant Island shoreline, police said.

Police say a friend of the paddlers heard their distress calls from the shoreline and took a canoe out to help them. The friend was able to rescue three of the paddlers.
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Old 01-02-2022, 05:54 PM   #7
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I try my darndest to not be judgmental, especially in the wake of tragedies, but there are sooo many bad decisions here.

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Old 01-02-2022, 05:55 PM   #8
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I try my darndest to not be judgmental, especially in the wake of tragedies, but there are sooo many bad decisions here.

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I totally agree with you. That water is cold.
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Old 01-02-2022, 06:08 PM   #9
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You guys make a good point.

I consider myself super cautious around the water, with tools, driving speeds etc.

But I have to admit we've done some stupid things and just never considered how fast you freeze up in cold water.

This is my wife and I out on the lake in the spring about 20 years ago.

We thought we were safe because we were not far from shore. That's our house in the background.

It was the coolest experience though. It had gradually warmed up over a couple weeks and no wind. So the Ice turned into vertical icicles that just stayed in place. It looked solid, but you could paddle right through it and they would sing like a wind chime as the icicles clanked each other. It was pretty spectacular. But very risky. We even brought the dogs.

We never caught it like that again, probably a good thing

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Old 01-02-2022, 06:59 PM   #10
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You guys make a good point.

I consider myself super cautious around the water, with tools, driving speeds etc.

But I have to admit we've done some stupid things and just never considered how fast you freeze up in cold water.

This is my wife and I out on the lake in the spring about 20 years ago.

We thought we were safe because we were not far from shore. That's our house in the background.

It was the coolest experience though. It had gradually warmed up over a couple weeks and no wind. So the Ice turned into vertical icicles that just stayed in place. It looked solid, but you could paddle right through it and they would sing like a wind chime as the icicles clanked each other. It was pretty spectacular. But very risky. We even brought the dogs.

We never caught it like that again, probably a good thing

There are certainly a bunch of moments in my life that could've turned bad, but they've always been mitigated risk. In your situation, you've got flotation and daylight, two pieces missing in the above story.

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Old 01-02-2022, 07:38 PM   #11
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Default Grant Island Drowning

Wolfeboro. Kayak and Canoe capsized. 4 people in the water 3 survived. Condolences to family and friends as well as the survivors.

I just read a post about water temp. The lake will take a life all 4 seasons. It must be treated with the utmost respect and vigilance. So many are not aware of seasonal changes. A short innocent paddle in the summer can turn deadly in the winter.

Every year there are tragedies and every time it happens I feel sick. Uninformed and unprepared people face the same fate on MT. Washington.

Maybe we can all be vigilant...if you see something...say something. If one person can be persuaded not to take dangerous actions that is one life still to live.
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Old 01-02-2022, 08:26 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
https://twitter.com/NH_StatePolice/s...75212078522381 ..... a drowning death report; Saturday night in Wolfeboro intending to paddle to Grant Island, January 1, 2022, approximately 11:05-pm.

https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local...sizes/2603303/ ..... "Police say none of the four paddlers was wearing a life jacket"

Where is Grant Island located on a map?
Grant Is. is located off Clark Point, pretty much across from Springfield Pt.

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Old 01-03-2022, 08:26 AM   #13
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Default Marine Patrol Press Release

The Marine patrol said no life jackets were worn. Sad, but with the cold water and the time of day (night) what were you thinking?

Massachusetts Man Drowns In Lake Winnipesaukee
On Saturday, January 1, 2022, at approximately 11:05 PM, New Hampshire State Police - Marine Patrol Unit received information that five people in a canoe had fallen in the waters of Lake Winnipesaukee, four were on shore, but one person was missing prompting a rapid water rescue response.
Members of the Wolfeboro Police, Wolfeboro Fire, Tuftonboro Fire, Wakefield Fire, Alton Fire, Fish and Game, NH State Police – Troop E and Marine Patrol Units responded to the scene. A collaborative investigation and search effort later revealed, two separate paddle craft, a two-person kayak and a canoe, each with two people aboard left shore in Wolfeboro intending on reaching Grant Island. While underway for a short amount of time, the paddlers decided to return to the shoreline, when both vessels capsized, putting all four occupants in the cold water. All four victims attempted to swim to the Grant Island shoreline using one of the capsized vessels as floatation.
A friend of the paddlers heard the distress from the shoreline and took a canoe to provide aid. The friend selflessly and successfully aided three of his friends onto the shoreline of Grant Island until First Responders arrived. Fish and Game and Wolfeboro Fire Rescue later recovered the drowning victim, an adult male from Massachusetts, in approximately 15’ of water. None of the paddlers had life jackets.
Although the investigation continues, the circumstances do not appear to be suspicious. The decedent’s name is currently being withheld pending notification of next of kin.
State Police – Marine Patrol strongly reminds all boaters to wear their life jacket, especially in cold-water conditions.
Anyone who has further information related to this drowning is encouraged to contact New Hampshire State Police - Marine Patrol, Sgt. Joshua E. Dirth at (603) 227- 2115 or by email at Joshua.E.Dirth@dos.nh.gov
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Old 01-03-2022, 11:23 AM   #14
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In addition to the other difficulties these people faced was (presumably) being fully dressed for winter weather. As anyone who has been in the water while fully dressed will attest, clothing absorbs water and acts as a weight pulling a person down while also restricting movement. Winter coat and heavy shoes on top of clothes--that would be tough even in the best of conditions.
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Old 01-03-2022, 12:49 PM   #15
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Anyway, three of them were rescued but one died. I don't think it's fair to rescue people to take a chance at this time of year. Yes accidents happen all the time, but going in a canoe which we all know tends to be tippy and a kayak at this time of year is foolish and selfish.
Show of hands of all those that escaped their early 20's without having done anything stupid. Tis, perhaps you don't have kids of your own, but trust me, our biggest fear is the visit from the police in the middle of the night. I thank our first responders for doing all they could. Their job is to make rescuing efforts when needed. People, especially young people, make poor decisions. Most of the time they are fortunate enough to learn from it without significant loss. Other times they are not.
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Old 01-03-2022, 01:56 PM   #16
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Show of hands of all those that escaped their early 20's without having done anything stupid. Tis, perhaps you don't have kids of your own, but trust me, our biggest fear is the visit from the police in the middle of the night. I thank our first responders for doing all they could. Their job is to make rescuing efforts when needed. People, especially young people, make poor decisions. Most of the time they are fortunate enough to learn from it without significant loss. Other times they are not.
You make a very valid point. When I think back on things that I did in my college years to mid 20's, I shudder, and am reminded of an old saying my grandmother used to use, "there but for the Grace of God go I". The other elephant in the room on this one is the booze factor. The facts are not out and it would be disrespectful to the deceased and the injured to speculate, but we all know that stupid and risky behavior doesn't seem stupid or risky when you're under the influence of booze or drugs.
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Old 01-03-2022, 03:37 PM   #17
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The deceased was an employee of my best friends small electrical company, 6 guys, down here in Mass. I was speaking to him yesterday about it while we were working at my house wiring up the barn. He was a good kid and great electrician who made a bad decision. The two of us were talking about the many things we did at that age that could have ended differently. My buddy is not one to ever really get emotional, but he was pretty broken up about it yesterday. I am sure most of us felt invincible at that age, most of us made it through, some had close calls I'm sure.
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Old 01-03-2022, 05:29 PM   #18
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May this young man rest in peace .
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Old 01-03-2022, 06:37 PM   #19
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Question .... is swimming under the ice impossible?

Here's a 2:42 video that shows 40-year old Russian woman from Moscow, Yekaterina Nekrasova swimming for 90-seconds a distance of 279-feet under the ice in Lake Baikal, Siberia on January 7, 2021. The water temp is estimated by me to be about 33.5 degrees, and the air temp was reported to be -6 degrees.

https://swimswam.com/watch-russias-n...-world-record/ ... watch Yekaterina Nekrasova break ice swimming world record, January 7, 2021

What she wore was a Speedo swim suit, a Tyr swim cap, a face mask that covers eyes and nose, a wrist watch, and a padded ring handle around her neck which I assume is an emergency handle in case she blacks out and the safety diver needs to grab it and bring her to the surface, fast. There's NO swim flippers in use on her feet.

This video looks like the real deal, and seeing her swim under the ice is very impressive and amazing to me for a person to be able to do this. So's, how about that. Don't believe it when you are told that swimming in icy cold water is an instant killer. What can kill in maybe 30-60 seconds is inhaling water and drowning. As long as you do not inhale any water, a healthy person can survive in the icy cold water for, I think, about one hour before suffering a heart attack and dying.

Best advice: cover your mouth and nose with your hand to keep the water out while you survive an ice water plunge and get it in control.
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Old 01-03-2022, 06:48 PM   #20
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Show of hands of all those that escaped their early 20's without having done anything stupid. Tis, perhaps you don't have kids of your own, but trust me, our biggest fear is the visit from the police in the middle of the night. I thank our first responders for doing all they could. Their job is to make rescuing efforts when needed. People, especially young people, make poor decisions. Most of the time they are fortunate enough to learn from it without significant loss. Other times they are not.
Obviously they were young and most likely partying so they weren't thinking. Yes we all do make mistakes. My plea is for people to not just decide to go out for a little ride this time of year. It is very dangerous when you fall in that icy lake. I know this personally because one year just after ice out we were bringing the boat home and tying it up, I slid off the back of the boat. I had boots and a parka on and as Flying Scot said with clothes on I could not move. Thankfully I was only waist deep but I was still paralyzed. I couldn't lift my feet. It just isn't fair to knowingly go out in this water.
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Old 01-03-2022, 09:58 PM   #21
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O My plea is for people to not just decide to go out for a little ride this time of year. It is very dangerous when you fall in that icy lake.
When I first read your first message I missed the "drowning" subject of the post.
This is a horrible incident that seems to be happening more and more.
I still stand by if you are properly prepared, then why not take a kayak out there? These people obviously did not take the correct precautions, and that is sad. But to say everyone shouldn't is a very big ask. The Plea should be be prepared for what you do. End of season/beginning of the season kayaking is some of my favorite things to do, but again I always have wet suit on, dry suit if needed and a PFD. It's all about preparation.
My prayers go out for this person's family and friends. I have also lost a couple people that I have known through the years from kayak incidents, but most of them could have been avoided with the right gear on.
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Old 01-04-2022, 09:18 AM   #22
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The deceased was an employee of my best friends small electrical company, 6 guys, down here in Mass. I was speaking to him yesterday about it while we were working at my house wiring up the barn. He was a good kid and great electrician who made a bad decision.
Was the deceased someone whose family has a house on the lake?
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Old 01-04-2022, 10:14 AM   #23
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When I first read your first message I missed the "drowning" subject of the post.
This is a horrible incident that seems to be happening more and more.
I still stand by if you are properly prepared, then why not take a kayak out there? These people obviously did not take the correct precautions, and that is sad. But to say everyone shouldn't is a very big ask. The Plea should be be prepared for what you do. End of season/beginning of the season kayaking is some of my favorite things to do, but again I always have wet suit on, dry suit if needed and a PFD. It's all about preparation.
My prayers go out for this person's family and friends. I have also lost a couple people that I have known through the years from kayak incidents, but most of them could have been avoided with the right gear on.
Properly prepared is one thing, but remember they were out at 11pm! They had no logical reason to be out there at that time. Probably alcohol induced.
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Old 01-04-2022, 12:55 PM   #24
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Was the deceased someone whose family has a house on the lake?
To borrow a famous quote from a former First Lady: “WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE?” The poor young man is still dead, and his family is grieving. Their lives will never be the same, and it breaks my heart every time I think of it.
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Old 01-04-2022, 02:16 PM   #25
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Hope this helps those of you like me that could not place where Grant Isl was located
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Old 01-04-2022, 06:06 PM   #26
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A tragedy, no question, but two questions arise:

Why on earth would they want to paddle to Grant Island at night in the dead of winter?

and

Was alcohol / drugs a factor?
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Old 01-04-2022, 11:12 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkxingu View Post
There are certainly a bunch of moments in my life that could've turned bad, but they've always been mitigated risk. In your situation, you've got flotation and daylight, two pieces missing in the above story.

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I've been out on Winnisquam in a kayak with a little less chandelier ice than that. It was awesome the sounds it made just floating or as we cut through it.
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Old 01-05-2022, 02:26 PM   #28
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A news outlet posted the story and there were more than plenty insensitive comments, similar to here. The father of the young man who didn't make it commented on the post acknowledging that they were young, not making the smartest decisions, and while living life to the fullest and having fun at the time his son paid the ultimate sacrifice. It goes without saying, but he said they're heartbroken (probably the biggest understatement) and respectfully asked for folks to reserve comments. I'd highly recommend doing the same here.
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Old 01-05-2022, 05:52 PM   #29
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A tragedy for sure, I feel so bad for the family. Just awful. Mistakes were made, like many said we've all made them at some point in our lives.

Just saying in general, it isn't irresponsible to paddle in cold water/weather. Life jacket is a must of course. I haven't worn a drysuit but certainly that is the ultimate in safety factor, can swim your way out of trouble. I've paddle boarded and kayaked in April and October (April obviously being far colder water), wearing insulated booties, life jacket, sometimes gloves. I don't bundle up in clothing, wear shorts and maybe a hoodie or medium jacket at most. I would not do this in windy weather, or at night. I don't consider it risky, and tremendously enjoy it.
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Old 01-05-2022, 07:44 PM   #30
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I really don’t think posts here were insensitive at all.
A couple of “what were they thinking”.
Then folks reminded us that we were dumb, young and lucky it wasn’t us in the past.
But all in good spirit to encourage people to think around the water.
Watch out for others making dumb moves.
Think what could go wrong and have a plan.
Not just icy water.

I think it’s one of the better threads on the site in a while.

If you saw these kids going in, what would you do or say?
How would you convince them it’s a bad idea?
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Old 01-05-2022, 07:50 PM   #31
FlyingScot
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Originally Posted by Shreddy View Post
A news outlet posted the story and there were more than plenty insensitive comments, similar to here. The father of the young man who didn't make it commented on the post acknowledging that they were young, not making the smartest decisions, and while living life to the fullest and having fun at the time his son paid the ultimate sacrifice. It goes without saying, but he said they're heartbroken (probably the biggest understatement) and respectfully asked for folks to reserve comments. I'd highly recommend doing the same here.
I agree that people should be respectful. But as with other lake accidents, many of us think it is important to discuss and understand so that we and others will avoid trouble in the future. If we do not do it now, the conversation will never happen. Just as one example of how this can work well--mswlogo has posted that he is rethinking his own cold water kayaking
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Old 01-05-2022, 08:00 PM   #32
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I agree that people should be respectful. But as with other lake accidents, many of us think it is important to discuss and understand so that we and others will avoid trouble in the future. If we do not do it now, the conversation will never happen. Just as one example of how this can work well--mswlogo has posted that he is rethinking his own cold water kayaking
Yeah, it’s a lot like flying accidents. Even hobby flying.
They are very good at picking apart what caused an accident without assigning blame.
Just as a teaching moment.
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Old 01-05-2022, 09:19 PM   #33
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This is a tragic story about cold water, young people, poor decisions and likely alcohol.

I have been there (except for the cold water). I have heard from a 1st responder about some details here, which will remain private. This is sad and we should refrain from judgement.

People of all ages make mistakes and unfortunately, this was mistake upon mistake upon mistake, and the ones here were ones young folks make when you feel bulletproof.

RIP young man.
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