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06-17-2017, 08:51 AM | #1 |
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Something New From Marine Patrol
I was stopped the other day by a very nice MP officer who asked to take a picture of my boat (2015 Bennington)
I was towing tubers at the time with two spotters on the rear facing lounge seats in the stern. He explained that a new regulation called for not allowing passengers to ride in rear facing seats....they consider it to be the same as riding directly on the stern or a swim platform. My rear facing seats have surrounding rails with a gate in the back and he wanted the picture to take issue with the new regulation with his supervisor. He allowed us to continue and promised to look me up when a final decision came down. |
06-17-2017, 09:01 AM | #2 | |
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06-17-2017, 09:29 AM | #3 | |
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06-17-2017, 09:50 AM | #4 | |
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Someone from MP posts here from time to time. Please chime in on this one. When I'm towing someone, I certainly want the observer to be facing rearward, so as to be able to do continuous observing, not just craning the neck back in that direction every so often, according to how much it hurts the neck. |
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06-17-2017, 09:57 AM | #5 |
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Who the hell comes up with this crap!!?? Sheesh.
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06-17-2017, 10:51 AM | #6 |
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Reading between the lines, I read the post as the MP was trying to show that not all rear facing seats have rails like you are describing your boats do. I know my friends does not have rails on his so if the boat gets jerked around someone might slide of. So the MP was trying to state that it might be too broad of a rule and using your boat as a reason not to have the rule as "no one can ride in rear facing seats".
Dunno, just a different way of looking at it. |
06-18-2017, 08:40 AM | #7 | |
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Dan
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It's Always Sunny On Welch Island!! |
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06-18-2017, 10:05 AM | #8 |
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RSA/Admin Rules search
I searched through the NH RSAs and Administrative Rules sections but could find nothing referencing what was told to the boater in the first post.
If I get a chance tomorrow I'll make an inquiry to Gifford and post what I find.... |
06-18-2017, 11:05 AM | #9 |
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Thanks, Skip. We'll all be interested. We see new boats with huge swim platforms and rear facing seats. I agree that this is probably not a great place to ride at speed, but I'm unaware of a new regulation, certainly not a new RSA Perhaps a mew interpretation to deal with new boat/seat designs?
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06-18-2017, 12:37 PM | #10 |
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I have someone from the Marine Trades Association looking into now as well....
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06-19-2017, 06:11 AM | #11 | |
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06-19-2017, 08:37 AM | #12 |
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Folks lets not get worked up here. As some other eluded to there are many situations that MP officers need to be aware off, and a broad stroke was probably applied in a statement, that all "aft facing seats are not usable while under way"... The truth of the mater, is that those rear facing loungers are probably legal to use while underway....
What is not legal to use was is many MFG.s are doing with bow riders and CC boats, is butting a seat to be used in conjunction with the Swim deck when you are at anchor... those are most certainly not designed to be used while underway, and I have seen a case or two of that happening.... The Marine Patrol has a hard job, interpreting the true intentions of the law. I applaud this officer for approaching taking a picture, and then bring it up with his superiors.... they aren't out to ruin anyone's fun....
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06-19-2017, 08:53 AM | #13 | |
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Back to the thread at hand. Sent from my SM-T580 using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
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06-19-2017, 09:14 AM | #14 |
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If there are 'new' laws, or interpretations of existing laws, I'd like to be aware of them, as we know "ignorance is no excuse".
The only law I know of has been referenced in other threads, basically "no straddling of the bow, no sitting on the gunnels or on the transom". How this gets interpreted into "no sitting on the bow area" and now "no sitting on aft facing seats" is beyond me, unless it's considered a general 'unsafe practice'. Perhaps the MP was offering a 'safety warning', which I'm always happy to receive, as we can all learn something, telling the owner of a particular boat that what the MP observed may not be safe for the particular boat and situation. For example, having someone sitting on the bow area of a small 21 ft boat, may be a lot different than someone sitting on the bow area of a 42 ft boat. I've also heard stories that people have been warned (vs cited) about not standing on a swim platform when pulling into a slip, when trying to tie up a boat at a slip. If there are laws about these things, we should all know about them. Of course, if it's a safety recommendation, then that's a different story, but it's good to learn safety first! So far most have only been able to cite: http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/.../270-d-mrg.htm RSA 270-D:7 prohibiting the riding the gunwale of a boat or straddling its bow or transom Perhaps the general 'careless and negligent operation' rule could be cited, but could this be open to interpretation depending on the circumstances including the particular boat: http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/...0/270-29-a.htm 270:29-a Careless and Negligent Operation of Boats. – Any person who shall operate a power boat upon any waters of the state in a careless and negligent manner or so that the lives and safety of the public are endangered shall be guilty of a misdemeanor. I'm a bit surprised that only 'power boats' are mentioned in the above RSA, but I'm not a lawyer, nor a legislator. IMHO, I'd like to see more people stopped when dragging their kids on a tube behind the boat when going through a busy narrow channel, but that's my opinion of an unsafe practice. I'd like to understand and learn here. I fully support the MP and what they do!
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06-19-2017, 10:29 AM | #15 |
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Question awaiting the LT
Late last night the on duty communications supervisor acknowledged my inquiry and said she would pass it on to the Lieutenant for an answer....
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06-19-2017, 10:56 AM | #16 |
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I have never owned a proper boat and have no dog in this fight but my first thought regarding rear facing seats was how would that ban square with the requirement to have a watcher keeping eye on water skiers. It's not unusual for new laws to be conflicting with old ones or just not well thought out generally.
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06-19-2017, 12:10 PM | #17 |
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Do either of these setups look like yours Samiam? I guess I could see where they wouldnt like the exposed one but if you have one similar to the one with these railings then I dont see the problem
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06-19-2017, 12:33 PM | #18 | |
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NH is no longer the Live Free or Die state. |
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06-19-2017, 02:47 PM | #19 | |
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Count me as one who has no problem with night time boating illumination laws being enforced on open water. I don't want any ambiguity or confusion at all when I encounter another boat at night. Green lights all around a boat are an incredibly bad idea. |
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06-19-2017, 03:35 PM | #20 |
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Dave -
I too boat and am very comfortable navigating at night -- but what I do not understand is why MP will not allow me to run (what I call) my anchor light in addition to my pole 360. There has been some controversy here already about the term I use -- what I am referring to is a transom mounted white light which is visible roughly 160-180 deg from the stern view and tends to light up my stern & swim platform. I am a HUGE fan of being able to make sure no one runs up my stern as we have seen in the past. In fact, legal or not - when leaving firework displays (at headway speed or so) I will always run my "blue" under platform lights until the crowd has dispersed. MP has never hassled me for that - yet. And as for me, having a bright white at the waterline in addition to higher up (over the Bimi) 360 where they tend to blend in with shore lights is a plus -- so one would think -- but not MP ..... and thus did not have one installed on this boat for the first time in a long list of boats I have owned. .
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06-19-2017, 03:52 PM | #21 | |
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On the same subject: It is always aggravating to see someone out at night running with their docking lights on or repeatedly using a hand held spotlight, ruining their night vision as well as yours. I prefer the inside of the boat to be dark, the darker the better. I even put a towel over the dashboard to eliminate distraction from the dashboard lights. |
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06-19-2017, 05:19 PM | #22 |
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People all over the country are installing green LED's all over their boat, and they get very aggravated when you tell them how idiotic it is. I agree with as dark an interior as possible at night. I have the blue all over my boat but never use them on winni, But I do on smaller lakes putting around. On the subject, I was told by a few dealers that you need some type of railing on an open backed pontoon, like the 2nd picture above, So I've assumed that the 1st is not legal???
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06-19-2017, 05:08 PM | #23 | |
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06-20-2017, 05:32 AM | #24 | |
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I believe that two white lights from behind indicates a sailboat under sail and you must yield right of way. Said sail boat must switch to one rear facing white light when powered by a motor or engine. https://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvis...on-Light-Rules So there is some logical reason for this, but this is a topic for a different thread.
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06-20-2017, 01:11 PM | #25 | |
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06-20-2017, 09:14 PM | #26 |
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Stern Lights
Rich, the West Marine information you posted clearly says that you must display EITHER a separate stern light or the white section of a masthead tri-color but not both. West Marine is also wrong in saying that sailboats motor sailing must display a black cone apex downward as this is only required of vessels 12 meters or greater in length. The "experts" at various marine boutiques are not the most reliable source of information in this area. Refer instead to 33 CFR or COLREGs and then N. H. boating laws which often so distort terms and concepts as to make boating less safe.
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06-21-2017, 08:27 AM | #27 | |
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V-ger,
I only used the WM page as an easy diagram, of course our laws control things. I thought that I remembered this from my boating certificate course, there was a question, something to the effect of: "If at night you are comeupon two white lights in front of you, what should you do", if I remember correctly the answer was something in the line of "two white lights mean a sailboat under sail power, yield ROW". But I could and probably am wrong here, I also have a tendency to remember old rules I learned as a kid on salt water. As an example, at the boating course I attended to earn my NH NASBLA boating certificate, I ended up in a discussion with the instructor over the fact that on the ocean, the 'cans' used to be black in color in the past. He stated that "no, they were always green". To clarify, and 'end the discussion' I ended up calling a family member who was on the coast guard. He confirmed that years ago the CG had to pull all the black cans and paint them green as the regulations had changed, he was stationed out of Newburyport and was one of the crew at the time that had to repaint all the cans in the area. So my memory was correct (that one time), and I guess my boating experience pre-dated the instructor of the class, even though he seemed to have more grey hairs at the time than I did. Thanks for the clarification, I'll do some more homework. I always thought a sailboat under power required two stern facing white lights. Checking this link on the NH boat-ed website, it doesn't mention two stern lights: https://www.boat-ed.com/newhampshire...102_700153762/ Perhaps I'm a bit confused (it wouldn't be the first time) as here it defines a Masthead Light as not being used by a vessel under sail: https://www.boat-ed.com/newhampshire...102_700153618/ Quote:
I'm not saying this is the 'law', but here's a good reference of what nav lights look like at night: http://www.bosunsmate.org/seamanship/lights.php I'm sure glad I'm not a commercial operator so I don't need to try to remember all of the combinations of lights on that page! as an example, Vessel under sail from forward: Vessel under power from forward: My apologies for getting this backwards and causing any confusion. Again, sorry to get off topic for this thread.
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06-21-2017, 08:39 AM | #28 |
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A sail boat under power, is a power boat. meaning they have have to follow the same rules. As far as I remember, as long as the motor is running, they are under power. The term "sailing vessel" means any vessel under sail provided that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used.
So, if under power, should have the same nav lights. red / green sidelights masthead stern Here's USCG info on the forward apex. https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=Rule25 e) A vessel proceeding under sail when also being propelled by machinery shall exhibit forward where it can best be seen a conical shape, apex downwards. A vessel of less than 12 meters in length is not required to exhibit this shape, but may do so. [Inld] |
06-21-2017, 12:24 PM | #29 | |
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It's easy to discount risk or assume everything will be fine as we sit at our computers. It's tougher, just by this example, to look at 2 or 3 dots of light in the dark, after a long day, and a beer or 3, with passengers distracting us... Thanks! |
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06-20-2017, 09:15 AM | #30 |
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Right.....mine is the one on the bottom with rails and a gate. Interesting comparison. The other boat has rear facing seats with no rails.....wonder what the decision will be.
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06-20-2017, 10:24 AM | #31 |
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If our esteemed legislature has any say in the matter, I suspect that they'll require seat belts and shoulder harnesses for any rear-facing seats in order to legally operate. Safety first!
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06-20-2017, 11:10 AM | #32 |
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You forgot
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06-18-2017, 12:37 PM | #33 |
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SAMIAM Please e-mail call me at the marina (603) 524-8380. I'd like to discuss with you in more detail exactly what Marine Patrol said. I'm president of the NH Marine Trades and we've heard nothing of this new regulation. Want to make sure our boaters' interest are protected. Thanks Julie Marsh.
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06-19-2017, 09:03 PM | #34 |
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spotters
Could it be that the "authorities" want the spotter(s) to be
in front and in the view of the operator, so that the operator can see, immediately, that the spotter(s) have something to report? |
06-19-2017, 09:17 PM | #35 |
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Many purpose-built ski boats have this type of rear-facing seat:
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06-19-2017, 09:20 PM | #36 |
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My boat has two rear-facing seats:
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06-19-2017, 10:10 PM | #37 |
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Two Stern Lights
Phantom, two white lights shown astern not in conjunction with various combinations of red, green, yellow, or white indicate a vessel greater than 50 meters at anchor.
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06-20-2017, 02:41 AM | #38 |
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More rules and regs
Maybe it is just your government at work ?
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