Boating Accident/Death off Diamond Island

[Rattlesnake Guy]

He has a strong reputation of saying outrageous things to stir things up. I am not convinced he believes half of what he says. (At least that is what I tell myself)

As far as my experience with GPS. Sometimes I have seen the unit shift my position. I try to establish that the unit is accurately synchronized every time I turn it on.

[wifi]

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy

He has a strong reputation of saying outrageous things to stir things up. .....

Its more political spin than anything else..

[Seeker]

Originally Posted by wifi

Its more political spin than anything else..

Yep, Thank you Don for the ignore button.

[fatlazyless]

Today's Jan 5 www.citizen.com has an update. It describes the numerous personal injuries in some detail and they certainly sound bad enough to be terminal......a terrible accident-crash! Definately, not a happy situation...

[sa meredith]

Honestly....this is just plain foolish. I believe this the second, third, fourth, maybe fifth delay????
How many times can her attorney do this? Seriously? Maybe someone (SKIP?) knows?
I believe the last delay, was for the same exact reason...scheduled surgery. At what point does a "scheduled" court date take precedence?!
Is it possible, this is some type of tactic the defense is using? I realize she is very much in need of ongoing medical care, but it certainly could be carried out after the trial, whether she is incarcerated or not.

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by sa meredith

Honestly....this is just plain foolish. I believe this the second, third, fourth, maybe fifth delay????
How many times can her attorney do this? Seriously? Maybe someone (SKIP?) knows?
I believe the last delay, was for the same exact reason...scheduled surgery. At what point does a "scheduled" court date take precedence?!
Is it possible, this is some type of tactic the defense is using? I realize she is very much in need of ongoing medical care, but it certainly could be carried out after the trial, whether she is incarcerated or not.

But if it is after and she is in fact incarcerated, then we the taxpayers fit the bill for her medical care, I say let her get it all done first.
If I were the judge I would make certain that is was completed in a timely manner, not this wait two weeks before each trial date, I am certain that her doctors have a timeline set in place for each surgury and what is required after, I believe it is called "care planning".

[Woodsy]

Sa...

The state isn't going to have a problem with this delay.... getting the jurors out on the ice to visit the crash site would be a difficult chore at best....

My money is on a trial after ice-out....

Woodsy

[Just Sold]

Judge McGuire will retire April 2 so this could mean a new Judge if the trial is delayed further.
http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll...=2010701059856

[fatlazyless]

As a long time fan of tv shows Dragnet & Perry Mason, it seems like the numerical blood alcohol level is a very important number as to how the State of NH decides to prosecute any motor vehicle, driving related death.

What is the threshold blood alcohol level for DUI in this specific boating incident? Is it 0.08?

So, if the Belknap County Attorney can present the court and jury of 12 a blood alcohol level of .08 as opposed to .0799, it legally makes a big change in how the attorney designs their plan of prosecution.

With a local jury of 12 intelligent & serious jurors, isn't it a distinct possibilty they decide 'not guilty' in consideration of all the pain and suffering already endured? By incarcerating the indicted boat driver, who is the State of NH punishing and who is the State protecting? What is the mission of the State of NH's system for justice in a criminal case like this one?

As we all know, the deceased women was not a stranger but a very close friend of the boat driver. If the deceased person was the mother or sister of the boat driver, would that substantially change the State's plan of prosecution? Does the relationship between the two have any bearing on the prosecution or on the jury's decision?

If the blood alcohol level is 0.08, does that in the mind of the prosecutor, who follows state legal procedure, basically trump a death of a close friend relationship as the prosecutor designs his plan of prosecution?

If Perry Mason were teaching a first year classroom of law students, what would he say?

[OCDACTIVE]

I think speculating on the facts of the case is in extreme bad taste. The trial will occur soon enough and when the information is brought to light then we can draw our own conclusions. Until then to speculate, discuss, reflect, or make conjecture is frankly disrespectful to the unfortunate soul that was lost. IMO

If you want to discuss the merits of BWI I am sure we can start a BWI thread and have at it.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

I think speculating on the facts of the case is in extreme bad taste. The trial will occur soon enough and when the information is brought to light then we can draw our own conclusions. Until then to speculate, discuss, reflect, or make conjecture is frankly disrespectful to the unfortunate soul that was lost. IMO

If you want to discuss the merits of BWI I am sure we can start a BWI thread and have at it.

As a cousin of the deceased, I can't ask for a better statement. I would ask the webmaster out of respect to close this topic, if this taste continue.

[fatlazyless]

A new article in today's January 7 www.citizen.com says a jury will be picked in the first week of March, and the trial will start on the second week.

I for one would definately not want to be one of the 12 jurors, and could probably get excused by the defense attorney after pointing out the various comments I've made in this thread.

People working in the NH justice system as police officers, prosecutors, lawyers, court officers and judges probably get mentally grounded over time with dealing with the difficult personal issues associated with their job. To be a defendant must be no picnic...sympathy extended to all involved.

[SIKSUKR]

Sounds like some kind of an apology I guess.

[Airwaves]

It will be interesting to see if ANYONE that reads or participates on http://www.Winnipesaukee.com/forums will be allowed to sit on the jury?

With over 101,000 views on the Diamond Island Accident thread alone, it could become a factor in a fair trial. I wonder if that will be one of the questions that the prosecution and/or defense will ask during jury selection during the exclusion process.

HERE is the article mentioned by FLL

[Lucky1]

Don't drink and drive... not boats, cars, trains, planes. People die.
Don't text and drive....not boats, cars, trains, planes. People die.
Don't do drugs and drive......not boats, cars, trains, planes. People die.
I did not read the article so I am not taking any point of view on the case that was cited in the link.

Driving safely is hard enough with all the nuts out there today without making your brain less alert.

Everyone stay safe and hope that we all have a Happy 2010!!!

[jrc]

Originally Posted by Airwaves

It will be interesting to see if ANYONE that reads or participates on http://www.Winnipesaukee.com/forums will be allowed to sit on the jury?

...

If I was called to jury duty on a case like this, I'd be ready to show the judge and lawyers my comments on the forum. Then I let them decide if it disqualified me.

I feel like I'm an honest person and could still make a fair judgement, even given comments I made here. But I could also understand them wanting someone who didn't already have wrtten opinions.

Now, just reading about the case should not disqualify you.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Sounds like some kind of an apology I guess.

The Hartman, Litchfield, Boudoin, Blizzard families are very upset about a handful of supporters that express nothing but hate against boaters. They wish these people will take their agenda elsewhere and rightly so. I should know, I am a good friend with connection to these families.

I have live on this lake all my life. So has my father. We can connect ourselves to Leander lavallee, The Irwins, The Calllahans and The Goodhues. they have made this lake a great lake to be on. I disdain what the lake has become. No longer do I see a friendly wave from boaters that have been a tradition in the past. No longer do I see boaters respecting other boaters and no longer do I see the camaraderie between boat owners and waterfront property owners. The lake has become a battleground.

Sorry to rant Don, but enough is enough, these folks are beyond apologetic.

[Yosemite Sam]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

The Hartman, Litchfield, Boudoin, Blizzard families are very upset about a handful of supporters that express nothing but hate against boaters. They wish these people will take their agenda elsewhere and rightly so. I should know, I am a good friend with connection to these families.

I have live on this lake all my life. So has my father. We can connect ourselves to Leander lavallee, The Irwins, The Calllahans and The Goodhues. they have made this lake a great lake to be on. I disdain what the lake has become. No longer do I see a friendly wave from boaters that have been a tradition in the past. No longer do I see boaters respecting other boaters and no longer do I see the camaraderie between boat owners and waterfront property owners. The lake has become a battleground.

Sorry to rant Don, but enough is enough, these folks are beyond apologetic.

Why would anyone open up a thread in a forum when they know that there will be negative comments or frivolity being made against someone that they know.
Everyone in this forum knows that FLL likes to joke around and get people to loosen up a little bit. I don’t think that makes him a bad person or that he is trying to slander anyone with his comments. If I thought he was slandering someone, I would be the first to ask that he be banned from this forum. However he has not done that and I think some of the comments made about him are unfair.

Why don’t we let the webmaster make the decision as to whether anyone is doing something wrong with their comments.

[sunset on the dock]

Some good points, YS and I find it a bit tiresome that a couple of posters take such offense to the discussion of said accident. THIS IS A FORUM!!! Look up the definition! If anyone is truly offended by a discussion of the details regarding this accident because they have some personal connection to the participants or it interferes with their agenda then they have should just stay away from the thread altogether. As far as Broadhopper's comment about "nothing but hate against boaters"...the forum record shows a barrage of very negative comments(yes, hateful) from him aimed at so many who have an opposing view of how the lake should be managed.

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

...in today's Dec 30 www.unionleader.com., January 18....jury selection scheduled in Belknap County court...

Nobody asked me but I just think that drinking and boating is totally different from drinking and driving, and therefore the drinking laws simply Do Not Apply! Boating and beer goes together like cake and ice cream, like hotdogs and mustard, like peanuts and popcorn, like boating and beer....see what I mean!

Especially, when you consider that this accident happened at 2pm out in the middle of a totally deserted lake with no other boaters.....so where is the harm with boating and a wee small can of beer, or two .....gee whiz?

I find most of FLL's post entertaining as well but that does not dismiss the over the top ones. How does making light of drinking and boating with a death resulting become ok your eyes? I find nothing funny at all having a laugh at the expense of a deceased woman.

[fatlazyless]

Actually, as I recall at the time I wrote that, I was not intending to be sarcastic. I was looking at the situation as someone who knows that beer and boating is pretty common. In my mind, as someone familiar with Diamond Island, what was a very small & easy turn of the steering wheel resulted into a huge human disaster. I'm sorry for any pain my comments, as perceived by you, may have caused and apologize for that. As someone who has experienced the sudden death of a brother-in-law, I recall how angry his death made me, at the time.

Determining whether a forum post is straight-ahead or sarcastic is not always so easy, and a different readers can interpret the same post differently.

What else can I say here? I need to go back and reread what I said in that quoted post of mine...hold-on...

Ok...just reread it ...and can understand how it could be interpreted to be sarcastic when one considers all my other posts....however....driving a boat and driving a car are in fact very very different. Car safety is usually a matter of a couple feet, while boat safety is frequently in a wide open space with 360-degree choice of steering.....so long time habits of boating and beer are still happening probably by a good number of boaters.

I was definately not trying to make a sarcastic comment but more thinking along the lines that it is not too unusual boating activity and was just a very small steering error. Boat steering errors have happened to me plenty times, and I think "is there rocks down below"...and "hope this works out ok" and know it's very easy to go astray on Winnipesaukee.

And, I apologize for stepping on anyone's feelings here.

[Yosemite Sam]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Actually, as I recall at the time I wrote that, I was not intending to be sarcastic. I was looking at the situation as someone who knows that beer and boating is pretty common. In my mind, as someone familiar with Diamond Island, what was a very small & easy turn of the steering wheel resulted into a huge human disaster. I'm sorry for any pain my comments, as perceived by you, may have caused and apologize for that. As someone who has experienced the sudden death of a brother-in-law, I recall how angry his death made me, at the time.

Determining whether a forum post is straight-ahead or sarcastic is not always so easy, and a different readers can interpret the same post differently.

What else can I say here? I need to go back and reread what I said in that quoted post of mine...hold-on...

Ok...just reread it ...and can understand how it could be interpreted to be sarcastic when one considers all my other posts....however....driving a boat and driving a car are in fact very very different. Car safety is usually a matter of a couple feet, while boat safety is frequently in a wide open space with 360-degree choice of steering.....so long time habits of boating and beer are still happening probably by a good number of boaters.

I was definately not trying to make a sarcastic comment but more thinking along the lines that it is not too unusual boating activity and was just a very small steering error. Boat steering errors have happened to me plenty times, and I think "is there rocks down below"...and "hope this works out ok" and know it's very easy to go astray on Winnipesaukee.

And, I apologize for stepping on anyone's feelings here.

Thank you very much FLL!!

I have never read any of your posts as being sarcastic. I think you speak from the heart and add a lot to this forum . More forum members should stop trying to be someone that they aren't and try to be more tolerant of opinions that don't agree with how they feel.

We all have different experiences in life as well as educational back grounds which make forums interesting at times. To stop someone from being themselves would make this a very boring forum.
.
.
.
.

[SIKSUKR]

FLL, you're a big man in my eyes. It takes a real man to offer an apology. My concern about the flavor of that post was if any family members were reading it. It really should not be directed at me as I am only an aquaintance and not family. This proves to me that you are the good natured man that most of your posts portray. I have moved on.

[RI Swamp Yankee]

Originally Posted by Just Sold

Judge McGuire will retire April 2 so this could mean a new Judge if the trial is delayed further.
http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll...=2010701059856

Maybe not per this quote from the story:
She will assume senior active status and will remain eligible to sit as a judge when needed.

[Merrymeeting]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Sorry to rant Don, but enough is enough, these folks are beyond apologetic.

I often ignore or avoid the controversial topics on this (and other) forums. But this statement I cannot ignore.

As someone who maintains websites far smaller and less volitile than this one, I don't think this is a fair burden to place on Don. He did not sign up to be judge and jury (though too often, that is the job of a moderator)

It's a fine line between constructive debate and needing to serve as judge and arbitor. Don does a wonderful job on this website keeping it focused on topics related to the Lakes Region. Let's not put too much of a burden on him that he reconsiders why he's doing this!

[Steveo]

Is this still on schedule for March 1st or has there been another delay

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Steveo

Is this still on schedule for March 1st or has there been another delay

I did a little searching around and it appears still slated for March. If there is going to be any further delay it will not come out until the March time frame...

In reading the couple of articles I did today, I was struck by something I didn't like. It appears that the delay in January to have the trial in March was so that Ms. Blizzard could have surgery, and be allowed adequate time to recover, and that this was related to injuries suffered in the accident.

Now My question is this, at this point, I can't image any surgery she needed to under go was life threatening. Necessary well that is a different story, and it may have very well been. But the question is, could the surgery have taken place after the Trial. Now grant you by asking for the delay Ms Blizzard has waived her right to a speedy trial. But my concern is for all the other people involved and effected by this tragedy. Don't they have a right for this trial to have taken place and the issue resolved.

In short although Ms. Blizzard surgery may have been necessary, is it right to delay a trial, because of non life threatening surgery? Or is this another defense tactic, to try and put more time in between the incident and the trail so as to hopefully remove the spotlight of the incident form the trial.

[Woodsy]

LI....

The surgery my not be life threatening, however once in she is in state custody it will be the state who has to pay for the surgeries....

I would also expect one more delay... I doubt they are going to make the jury travel over the ice on the lake in March to visit the accident scene...

Woodsy

[Yosemite Sam]

Regardless of how I might feel about certain laws on Lake Winni and how this accident happened, I have real heart felt sympathy for Ms Blizzard and her family.
I have two daughters a little older that Erica and I don’t know how I could possibly go through what her family must be going through now.

[sa meredith]

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

Regardless of how I might feel about certain laws on Lake Winni and how this accident happened, I have real heart felt sympathy for Ms Blizzard and her family.
I have two daughters a little older that Erica and I don’t know how I could possibly go through what her family must be going through now.

Well...at least her family can see her, talk with her, offer support, try to comfort her...
How about the family of the girl who was killed????
My guess is that they probably would like some measure of closure. And for that, the trial must take place.

[fatlazyless]

Typically, whenever a police chief, police officer, judge or state, county, or local prosecutor is asked to comment on any one individual case they have a two word reply: NO COMMENT!. And, then they say something like "let the legal process work" or "the jury has spoken" or "we look forward to a fair and impartial trial......and thankyou very much for asking."

Believe the whole premise in criminal law is it is: The people of the State of New Hampshire verses (an individual's name), and the mission of the state criminal code is to protect the public at large.

...sic...."If the glove don't fit....you must aquit!"

Perry Mason's tv school of law........ayuh!

[Pineedles]

I think people are growing impatient because they are not used to the course of the law. The law/justice will happen when all things can be considered fair. Thank God for the United States of America.

BTW, course means "the path of travel" It may be long, short, circumnavigated, but eventually it gets there.

[NoRegrets]

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

Regardless of how I might feel about certain laws on Lake Winni and how this accident happened, I have real heart felt sympathy for Ms Blizzard and her family.
I have two daughters a little older that Erica and I don’t know how I could possibly go through what her family must be going through now.

Well said.....Nothing can change the outcome of that night. The blame and trial will not change the torn hearts and spirits of this part of Winni's history.

[fatlazyless]

It's probably a good idea to not prejudge a trial and assume a verdict.......you really need to let the trial take place and no doubt the blood alcohol level will be a key piece in the process......after all....Attorney James Moir's motion to have the blood alcohol level not be admitted into evidence was denied by the judge in April 2009. In today's NH legal system, the blood alcohol level number seems like it can be a very big deal.

On January 5, 2010, the www.citizen.com article by Bea Lewis refers to the April 2009 ruling with a quote from Judge Kathleen McGuire in Belknap Superior Court who ruled that the defendant "drove a boat headlong into an island at an unreasonable rate of speed was the probable cause Marine Patrol needed to believe the defendant had been drinking alcohol and that evidence of intoxication would be found in the defendant's blood."

www.citizen.com google 1/05/10

[Mr. V]

If the defendant has any brains, she'll accept a plea bargain.

I foresee a harsh sentence if she wastes the court's time and is convicted.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

"...In today's NH legal system the blood alcohol level number seems like it can be a very big deal..."

Like, alcohol impairs judgment or something?

[OCDACTIVE]

Seriously some of these posts are extremely hurtful to everyone involved. Please have some compassion. Lets wait to see what comes out of the trial before judgement is passed.

I am surprised that this thread hasn't been shut down yet.

[PennyPenny]

Originally Posted by sa meredith

Well...at least her family can see her, talk with her, offer support, try to comfort her...
How about the family of the girl who was killed????
My guess is that they probably would like some measure of closure. And for that, the trial must take place.

Well said SA Meredith. The victims family wonders every day what is next for them. I know there is an upcoming birth of a grandson in the near future that will probably put a smile on their faces.

[fatlazyless]

Today's Monday, March 1, www.laconiadailysun.com, reports that jury selection is scheduled to start today in Belknap County Superior Court, located in Laconia, and the trial testimony is scheduled to begin next week, on Monday, March 8.

Here's one paragraph from the the center of the 15 paragraph article written by Ed Engler.

"Presumably, the foundation of the state's case against Blizzard is an analysis of the blood that was drawn from her by medical personnel shortly after the accident. Her attorney, James Moir of Concord, last year tried to have evidence excluded from the trial on the grounds the state had lacked probable cause to obtain her medical records but that pleading was rejected by the court."
.....

Today's www.citizen.com and www.concordmonitor.com also have articles and the Monitor has some new info in it that may interest readers.

[codeman671]

From the Monitor:

"He described Shinopulos as somewhat disorientated during questioning at the hospital. And in her ruling on the blood test evidence, McGuire called Shinopulos's timing "questionable" because the ride from Governor's Island to Sleeper's Island should take only 10 minutes. "


Ten minutes??? In what? That run especially at night, should take more than 10 minutes unless you are really flying.

[rockythedog]

"The women then headed south, through a light rain,towards Sleeper Island in Alton." If the weather conditions that night can be described as light rain, then the wind storm and the damages of last week are only scattered debris and a few power outages. Shame on you Mr Engler and the editor of The Laconia Scum for such biased reporting. Just like the "anointed one". if you can't get the facts straight make something up.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by codeman671

From the Monitor:

"He described Shinopulos as somewhat disorientated during questioning at the hospital. And in her ruling on the blood test evidence, McGuire called Shinopulos's timing "questionable" because the ride from Governor's Island to Sleeper's Island should take only 10 minutes. "


Ten minutes??? In what? That run especially at night, should take more than 10 minutes unless you are really flying.

It's less than 4 miles from the middle of Governers ot the middle of Sleepers. You could do it in 10 minutes at 24 MPH.

[rockythedog]

Don't know what chart you're using Dave R, maybe the one from the middle of the Wier's Times? According to my Bizer chart from the middle of Govoner's to the middle of Sleepers is almost 10 miles. Do us a favor and post when the Mischief Managed will be out so we can stay safely at the dock.

[Mink Islander]

And for what it's worth, the +/- 5 miles from Shep Browns to my home on Mink would have taken waaaay longer than 10 minutes that night and it's an extremely familiar route with several light buoys along the way. It was raining and foggy and nearly moonless that night. Only thing that would have made conditions worse would have been high winds.

[Resident 2B]

Originally Posted by Mink Islander

And for what it's worth, the +/- 5 miles from Shep Browns to my home on Mink would have taken waaaay longer than 10 minutes that night and it's an extremely familiar route with several light buoys along the way. It was raining and foggy and nearly moonless that night. Only thing that would have made conditions worse would have been high winds.

It is almost ten miles and when you factor in having to get safely past the Witches on a dark, rainy and foggy night, it would be foolish to think this trip could be made in less than 30 minutes, given the conditions. Shinopulos is way off base with a 10 minute estimate, even during the day.

R2B

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by rockythedog

Don't know what chart you're using Dave R, maybe the one from the middle of the Wier's Times? According to my Bizer chart from the middle of Govoner's to the middle of Sleepers is almost 10 miles. Do us a favor and post when the Mischief Managed will be out so we can stay safely at the dock.

Yup, I was incorrect, I was using the wrong scale. Seemed kinda short to me when I measured it, Double checked my math, but not the scale. Should be 7.75 miles.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Dave R

Yup, I was incorrect, I was using the wrong scale. Seemed kinda short to me when I measured it, Double checked my math, but not the scale. Should be 7.75 miles.

And that is probably calculating a straight line.

I used to make a 50-55mph run in a 30' Monterey from my place on Mark to the Alton docks, it was always 30 minutes if I pushed it hard all the way. Clear conditions during the day, or clear night conditions prior to the speed limit.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by rockythedog

Don't know what chart you're using Dave R, maybe the one from the middle of the Wier's Times? According to my Bizer chart from the middle of Govoner's to the middle of Sleepers is almost 10 miles. Do us a favor and post when the Mischief Managed will be out so we can stay safely at the dock.

Rocky,

I will take my chances with Dave on the lake- more so than with most people I see out there.

[secondcurve]

Agreed. Dave is always insightful on boating issues. Also, when he makes a mistake (which doesn't occur often), he is not afraid to acknowledge his error as he did here. It's too bad others on the board aren't as quick to admit to their mistakes.

[rockythedog]

Maybe if this thread was about the correct way to read a chart I wouldn't have been so critical of Dave, but considering the topic don't you think attention to facts is paramount? That's the problem with this type of arena. Somebody can post anything without having to back it up. So if your reckless with with what you choose to post for people to read, why shouldn't I doubt your judgment in other areas?

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by rockythedog

Maybe if this thread was about the correct way to read a chart I wouldn't have been so critical of Dave, but considering the topic don't you think attention to facts is paramount? That's the problem with this type of arena. Somebody can post anything without having to back it up. So if your reckless with with what you choose to post for people to read, why shouldn't I doubt your judgment in other areas?

Yes because you are perfect and never make mistakes. Fod gods sake it was an error made on a CHAT forum. Dave was not sworn in under any court of law when he made the post. This is a chat forum where people post thoughts and ideas. For you to "doubt (his) judgement in other areas?" Who are you to judge anyone in area? Dave posted his thoughts and corrected them when his error was pointed out. If you have a "problem with this type of arena," then don't read it and don't post to it. Talk about riding in on your high horse and snubbing your nose at everyone.

I too would rather ride with DAVE R any day because he actually displays characteristics of a GOOD pilot. One who can admit an error in judgement and correct it. Other than stubborn captains or pilots who think they are above all infallible. Those are the captains and pilots I'd be avoiding at all cost. Those are the guys that worry me.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by rockythedog

Maybe if this thread was about the correct way to read a chart I wouldn't have been so critical of Dave, but considering the topic don't you think attention to facts is paramount? That's the problem with this type of arena. Somebody can post anything without having to back it up. So if your reckless with with what you choose to post for people to read, why shouldn't I doubt your judgment in other areas?

Is it just me or does this sound eerily similar to the type of regular posts from one Turtle Boy? Must be just a coincidence???

[VtSteve]

I don't know exactly what point they started from on Governors Island, but let's say it's 10 miles. It was said it took them about three hours to get from Governors Island to the site of the crash. The Judge said around 10 minutes should be the norm. She's the judge, but probably misspoke, she's not on trial here. If you chart the route from the Wolf Trapp at around 11:00 PM, to GI then back towards Sleeper, in bad conditions, allowing 15 - 25 minutes or so while they were on GI, you'd have an approximate idea as to their speed of travel. Conditions probably worsened that night coming back from GI, so maybe they started real slow, especially around the Witches area. It's quite possible she thought she was in the clear later on and thought she knew exactly where she was.

All of this info will come out at the trial, so I'd not get too excited about the 10 minute remark. I know from my GPS, I can get trip info, mileage info, average speed, trace my footprints and all of that. Possibly this type of data will be presented as well.

The trial starts next week, so no need for snarly posts. Perhaps Rocky can take it up with the Judge, since it was her statement that started the math problem.

[Dave R]

Hey, no worries folks. Let's keep this on topic. I was completely wrong with my post and it was correct for rockythedog to call me out on it.

I was not offended, but I do appreciate folks sticking up for me.

[NoBozo]

I've always wondered how you get a modern 38 foot boat under the bridge at Wolfeboro to get to the Wolf Trap which is in Back Bay, in the first place. Even a GFBL (which this boat was not) ...without a windshield is fairly high off the water. I have to duck when I go under that bridge in my 20 footer without a windshield. Flag staffs down.

The only alternative is to Walk around from the Wolfeboro town docks...in cruddy weather. A bit of a hike. NB

[VtSteve]

As usual, Dave, you handled it with grace and humility

IF quoted correctly, I think more importantly, it is the Judge that needs to review her statements. But distance aside, the conditions and the routing of that night's trip make for a interesting journey into deteriorating conditions. I would not want to make it myself.

[rockythedog]

Awesome, I've been buttonholed and outed at the same time. From day one I have closely followed this tragic accident and it's horrific consequences, reading most every post and coming away with the feeling that this is some sort of volleyball game to see which side can score the most points. Would you not agree that this is a most sensitive and critical juncture? Is it asking too much from either side to thoughtfully consider what you put out there? It will soon be up to 12 people to decide what the facts of this case are. Can you give it a break till then. Afterwords they'll be plenty of time for you all to pick apart the bones of the verdict.

[Airwaves]

I believe Governor's Island is just a reference point for non-boaters. I thought I had read (no I am not going back to look it up) that they were headed to Sleepers after playing the annual practical joke on her father at his place at Pendleton Beach. More non-boaters/non Winni users would be familiar with Governor's Island than the Pendleton Beach reference.

[trfour]

Trial set to start Monday; http://citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...9873/0/CITIZEN

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by Airwaves

I thought I had read (no I am not going back to look it up) that they were headed to Sleepers after playing the annual practical joke on her father at his place at Pendleton Beach.

That is correct AW.

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by trfour

Trial set to start Monday; http://citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...9873/0/CITIZEN

That was a pretty good article, someone did their homework.

[fatlazyless]

If Attorney Jimmie Moir can bring home the bacon, I definately expect to see him roar past Buoy 3 in a nice, new Formula SS-370 express cruiser with the name DEFINING NEGLIGENCE on the stern.

Defining negligence....Attorney Jimmie Moir got the Thornton 25-year old guy out of the state prison...who in 2006 crossed the center line in the Rt 49-Thornton S-curve and killed three 54 year olds who were riding on two Harleys....defining negligence

In a 3-1 split decision, in June 2009, the judges on the New Hampshire supreme court reversed a lower court conviction of negligence because in the opinion of Supreme Court Justice Linda Dalianis, the driver crossing the center line for some unknown reason is not negligence.

Two 50-something couples, driving two Harley Davidsons, two men and two women, in June 2006, were struck head on, in the middle of the daytime, by a car that wandered across the center line, killing three and injuring the fourth.

After serving about three years of a twelve year sentence, Attorney Jimmie Moir won his client in an appeal before the NH Supremes.....because that incident did not constitute negligence.......defining negligence!

DEFINING NEGLIGENCE....sounds like a good name for a nice big boat!

...ladies & gentlemen of the jury.....what is negligence? ....the failure to use reasonable care....doing something that a reasonable & prudent person would not do...

[ApS]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

That was a pretty good article, someone did their homework.

Update from yesterday found at that link:
http://citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art.../0/CITNEWS0101

In this entire case so far, a new word now appears:

"Jurors...will see the boat she was allegedly driving when it struck the rocky shoreline of Diamond Island."

[secondcurve]

That is very interesting. I have been thinking about what type of defense has the potential to be successful in this case and I've been unable to come up with anything that seems to provide a reasonable doubt. Intoxication will be indisputable one way or the other with blood evidence and even if totally sober how can't she be found negligent after running into an island at a high rate of speed? It seems like an open an shut case, but it could be possible that she wasn't driving the boat.

[secondcurve]

Attorney James Moir of Concord, who is representing Blizzard, filed a motion asking trial Judge Kathleen McGuire to ask prospective jurors a number of questions before they could be selected to sit on the panel. Key among them was whether they had formed any opinions regarding people "who own or operate large powerboats" and if they had an opinion concerning whether there should be a speed limit on Lake Winnipesaukee.

Talk about a Red Herring!!!!!

[Newbiesaukee]

I am not an attorney and I have been following the thread from the beginning and prefer the system to run its course. But, I do not see that these are unreasonable questions for either the defense or the prosecution to ask a jury pool in this case;and it might cut both ways. A person who has strong feelings either pro or con the speed limit or who owns or doesn't own a "large" power boat might have very different feelings but these feelings could influence their deliberations...one way or the other. The idea is to have none of these feelings and to be impartial. I realize that reasonable people with strong feelings CAN be impartial. Unfortunately, the real world may not work that way, but I do not see it as a "red herring" as the feelings and conscious or unconscious feelings may have a direct bearing on the impartiality of a juror. To me, it is not different to ask a juror in a rape case if he or she has a close relative who has been raped; or, in a malpractice case if anyone is a physicican or is closely related to one. If you were on trial in this case, would you want a strong advocate for speed limits to be on your jury? I would like to believe that jurors are impartial regardless, but it ain't necessarily so.

[Pineedles]

Both this trial and the disposition of SB 464 are happening next week. Trial starts Monday and is expected to last till March 11th. SB 464 is being considered on March 11th.

[John A. Birdsall]

I am not sure that I read this, but could it be that she was not operating the boat, that one of the other two was because she knew she was impaired?

To me that would make sense, since she most certainly should have the knowledge of the lake being a co-owner of a marina.

[Newbiesaukee]

I guess that would be a nice argument for the defense to make....but would not the other survivor be able to testify as to who was driving?

[Mr. V]

Hmmmm...

Conspicuous in her absence from the either the Defendant's or the State's witness list is the second passenger, the one who survived with a broken jaw: Nicole Shinopolous, from Massachusetts.

This is very curious.

I assume she's a friend of the defendant; have they reached some "confidential settlement" of her personal injury claim, such that she no longer has a dog in this fight?

Can she not found, or does she refuse to testify as the State would want her to?

Moir didn't list her as a witness, so it seems she won't testify on Blizzard's behalf.

Were she to testify truthfully, she'd be able establish the facts as they unfolded on that dark and stormy night.

So I ask: will she testify, and if not, why not?

[NoBozo]

Originally Posted by John A. Birdsall

I am not sure that I read this, but could it be that she was not operating the boat, that one of the other two was because she knew she was impaired?

To me that would make sense, since she most certainly should have the knowledge of the lake being a co-owner of a marina.

I think the Doctor (Island resident) first on the scene said Blizzard was Slumped over the wheel. NB

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

Hmmmm...

Conspicuous in her absence from the either the Defendant's or the State's witness list is the second passenger, the one who survived with a broken jaw: Nicole Shinopolous, from Massachusetts.

This is very curious.

According to the Concord Monitor article on 3/1/2010, Nicole Shinopulos is on the state's witness list.

Shinopulos, who suffered facial injuries in the crash, is on the state's witness list. And Blizzard will join jurors on the first day of the trial to view her damaged powerboat.

[fatlazyless]

Wondering if Nicole will be considered a friendly or a hostile witness by Jimmie the Belknap county attorney?

After all, Nicole was there onboard so she probably knows who was driving the boat at the time?

Dr Tom Rock's testimony could be a good indication with regard to who was driving the boat as well?

Who knows.....the deceased Stephanie could turn out to be Erica's best friend in life and in death...by taking the rap for driving the boat?

Is that the plan for defense attorney Jimmie Moir.....time will tell.....soon enough?


It's definately a trial case for the two Jimmie's.......Jimmie Carrol - Belknap County Attorney vs Jimmie Moir - defense attorney and former prosecutor for the New Hampshire attorney general's office.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Just remember one thing:

Innocent until proven guilty.

[John A. Birdsall]

Well if that is the case so much for that possibility. However, perhaps the deceased was driving, Blizzard seen what was coming and she took over the helm too late.
It is ashame that these things end up in a court. No matter who was driving the death of there friend will haunt them forever

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by John A. Birdsall

It is ashame that these things end up in a court.

Here's something to think about....the documented legal title on this lawsuit is: "The People of the State of New Hampshire verses Erica Blizzard", ....as best that I know.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Wolfeboro_Baja

According to the Concord Monitor article on 3/1/2010, Nicole Shinopulos is on the state's witness list.

Makes sense. Now the question will be if Nicole Shinopulos has or is planning to file a civil lawsuit. The defense could exploit that's the case since she would then have something to gain. Makes you wonder how much liability insurance was on the boat. Lawyers/sharks will swarm wherever the money is.

There is no win-lose in this case. Send her to jail and what does that do for anyone at this point? This usually comes down to $$$$$$$$ which you can be assured with be dealt with in a civil lawsuit.

Don't operate impaired. Don't ride with friends who are impaired. Neither individual in aforementioned cases would be using proper judgement if they did....

[SteveA]

More reporting on the awful accident and upcoming trial. It contains comments from the Beaudoin family. Mr. Baudoin's' comments help keep this all in perspective.

IMHO, regardless of the outcome of this trial, and any subsequent trials, the whole thing is a tragedy that has profound effects on everyone involved.

http://www.myfoxboston.com/dpp/news/...-boating-death

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Just remember one thing:

Innocent until proven guilty.

Then you just gotta love this lawyer with a list of his New Hampshire court "victories":

"… a tragic accident that killed her passenger and best friend. Ted Lothstein and co-counsel filed a motion to suppress blood test results that showed Jennifer M. had an incriminating blood alcohol level...

"After hearings, the trial court granted both motions. After much of the evidence had been suppressed, the State agreed to drop the alcohol impairment indictment and the parties reached a negotiated settlement involving consequences far less than the typical outcome of a DWI-fatality case in this State."

(Emphases are the site's).

[WakeUp]

"Send her to jail and what does that do for anyone at this point?" Are you serious? Let's be clear: What it does is hold people responsible for their actions. Nothing more, nothing less.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by WakeUp

"Send her to jail and what does that do for anyone at this point?" Are you serious? Let's be clear: What it does is hold people responsible for their actions. Nothing more, nothing less.

You apparently don't understand how the system is screwed up. Feel free to search my other post(s) regarding drunk driving/boating. If the legislature had a back bone and wanted to significantly reduce OUIs, first offense would be mandatory six months in jail.

However, folks on thie board seemed to miss the points made by what FLL previously posted. The problem is the differential justice applied to offenders. Your BAC will absolutely impact the sentence. Ever heard of "aggravated DUI". Differential "justice" is built into the OUI laws for something that's in practice the identical crime.

I am sure Blizzard has a lot of coins to pay for a defense, Joe Blow with no assets would get screwed. Until enforcement and penalties are made uniform, I still say Blizzard going to jail will do nothing for her or society.

The WHOLE thing is about money. Civil lawsuits, state makes money on OUI fines and fees, insurance companies get higher rates, police make money off OUI, prosecuters make money off OUI, judges make money off OUI, driving education instructors make money off OUI. Oh yeah and the NH liquor store at the Portsmouth traffic circle has a big yellow banner saying to "stock up, tax-free". So the State of NH gets the bonus of taxing the booze too. So who in the money chain has incentive to erradicate OUI? Follow the money, as it leads you to many answers to why things don't change (ergo OUI, healthcare, etc)

I have an uncle and a cousin both killed by drunk drivers (seperate accidents). My grandfather had a personal meeting with Bush I on this very topic. I've got the pictures and article in my desk drawer. He also wrote a book about the loss of his son (my uncle). I don't think my grandparents ever really got over it. So don't tell me what "the system" does or does not do......

[Seaplane Pilot]

Quote from the Fox News article:

"...when her 37-foot speed boat crashed into a ledge"...

I'm surprised they could find an impartial jury in Laconia.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Then you just gotta love this lawyer with a list of his New Hampshire court "victories":




(Emphases are the site's).

Even more sad than that is the fact that there is actually a National College of DUI Defense...

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

Makes sense. Now the question will be if Nicole Shinopulos has or is planning to file a civil lawsuit. The defense could exploit that's the case since she would then have something to gain. Makes you wonder how much liability insurance was on the boat. Lawyers/sharks will swarm wherever the money is.

I haven't heard anything about Nicole but according to SteveA's "MyFoxBoston" link, Beaudoin's parents do not wish Blizzard to go to jail (I also heard something similar on WMUR news).

Edgar Beaudoin said he and his wife, both 79, do no(t) wish to see Blizzard go to prison.

"It wouldn't be worth it," Beaudoin said, of punishing Blizzard. "The poor girl, she made the mistake of her lifetime. This is a mistake she will never forget."

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by codeman671

Even more sad than that is the fact that there is actually a National College of DUI Defense...

Sure, you say that NOW, but when it is your bacon in the fire, who you gonna call?

Some lawyers are better at playing the game, at manipulating people, than are others.

Your post reminds me off that famous quote in Shakespeare's King Henry VI: "The first thing we must do is kill all the lawyers."

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Then you just gotta love this lawyer with a list of his New Hampshire court "victories":




(Emphases are the site's).

It's a game for sure, but shear volume presents problems at courts too.

Don't detest the game players too much APS, many times, you use tactics that share some of the very same code of ethics. Win at all costs. If there's gaming to be done, people will game it.

[RI Swamp Yankee]

The Conway Daily Sun today (March 8) had this link to an AP hosted story about the trial.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...03-08-13-56-52

With the headline:

State: Boat driver in fatal NH crash legally drunk

[VtSteve]

This one was more descriptive

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/nat...osition=recent

"Belknap County Attorney James Carroll tells jurors that Erica Blizzard had a blood-alcohol count one and a half times the legal limit for driving when the boat she was piloting struck a ledge on Lake Winnepesaukee.
"

That would make the level around a .12.

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

This one was more descriptive

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/nat...osition=recent

"Belknap County Attorney James Carroll tells jurors that Erica Blizzard had a blood-alcohol count one and a half times the legal limit for driving when the boat she was piloting struck a ledge on Lake Winnepesaukee.
"

That would make the level around a .12.

I recall getting clients off on their DWI charges when their BA was .14 and sometimes .15.

The legal limit out here used to be .15.

The client would usually get pulled over for swerving or driving poorly, but then after the arrest, if they blew below the .15 requirement they would beat it, being legally deemed not intoxicated.

So how fair is it to lower it (to .08 out here) and convict today for what was not a crime yesterday?

.12 really will not lead to significant impairment, in the real world, at least for a seasoned drinker, which I suspect she is.

She could beat this rap ...

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

Sure, you say that NOW, but when it is your bacon in the fire, who you gonna call?

Some lawyers are better at playing the game, at manipulating people, than are others.

Your post reminds me off that famous quote in Shakespeare's King Henry VI: "The first thing we must do is kill all the lawyers."

My bacon won't be in the fire...

I am not "anti-lawyer", but think it is a bit much that there is an actual college with the sole purpose of defeating DWI cases.

Originally Posted by vtsteve

That would make the level around a .12.

Keep in mind that the results were drawn probably a few hours after the accident. Figure in response time to the scene after the call was made to report it, extracation, transport to Laconia, etc. That puts her even higher, at a level that would certainly impair judgement even as Mr V. mentions, for a seasoned drinker. One of the sites I saw online gave a generic 0.015% off your BAC for every hour without alcohol consumption. If this is the case, the actual BAC at the time of the incident could have been 0.15%+.

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

I recall getting clients off on their DWI charges when their BA was .14 and sometimes .15.

The legal limit out here used to be .15.

The client would usually get pulled over for swerving or driving poorly, but then after the arrest, if they blew below the .15 requirement they would beat it, being legally deemed not intoxicated.

So how fair is it to lower it (to .08 out here) and convict today for what was not a crime yesterday?

.12 really will not lead to significant impairment, in the real world, at least for a seasoned drinker, which I suspect she is.

She could beat this rap ...

The legal limits were changed to .08 at the bequest (lobbying), of the insurance industry, for apparently obvious reasons. The Feds gave the limit teeth by withholding highway funds, and effective way to get their way. There are far too many subjective, and technical data used in whether a person is impaired or not to get into that lengthy discussion. Three beers on an empty stomach can cause more impairment than several drinks over a few hours with food. Everyone is different, and so are the circumstances.

Since the BAL is one of two primary accusations for the State, the other being too fast for conditions/improper lookout, it will weigh heavily in this case. There was another case that would have delivered a far more serious penalty, if the perp had stayed around long enough to be tested shortly thereafter.

I hope for all families concerned this trial really is over this week, so they can go on with their shaken lives. I hope the reports on this forum will be contained to instruction and reflective, and be devoid of personal statements or agendas. Everyone needs to know what happened, and realize that you really cannot let your guard down. One slip up, and a tragedy can happen to anyone, anytime. The consequences to people and their families and friends are horrific, so I try to post as if this tragedy impacted me personally, and respect all those that might be reading.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

I recall getting clients off on their DWI charges when their BA was .14 and sometimes .15.

The legal limit out here used to be .15.

The client would usually get pulled over for swerving or driving poorly, but then after the arrest, if they blew below the .15 requirement they would beat it, being legally deemed not intoxicated.

So how fair is it to lower it (to .08 out here) and convict today for what was not a crime yesterday?

.12 really will not lead to significant impairment, in the real world, at least for a seasoned drinker, which I suspect she is.

She could beat this rap ...

"How Fair"? I think very fair. Don't forget she crashed her boat into an island and killed someone.

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

"How Fair"? I think very fair. Don't forget she crashed her boat into an island and killed someone.

Point taken.

BUT, why proscribe conduct today which was perfectly acceptable yesterday?

That doesn't seem fair.

Whether she was drunk or not, Blizzard should be sued, and sued hard, for her negligence.

Maybe hard enough to collect all the available insurance, then start cleaning her out of her personal / family assets.

Reduce her from "rich girl" to "poor girl."

Just sic some sharp lawyers on her.

[fatlazyless]

For driving a boat, it should be about a .18, since you gonna get seasick any way so what's the difference. Plus, all boaters like to drink. Boating and drinking just naturally go together....everyone knows that?

For cdl truck drivers, it 0.02, federal law enforced in all 50 states, and it stays on your driving record for something like 15 years.

So, here's the deal..... let it be .02 for truckers..... and .18 for boaters....add the two together....what's do you gut...you gutta .20 ... a nice round number .20....and everybody is happy....all is groovy!

[hancoveguy]

Actually... The legal limit established by the Federal Motor Carrier Association for CDL truck drivers in all 50 states is .04 BAC. As a former professional tractor trailer driver, a current law enforcement officer and a current boat owner and enthusiast, the legal limit for boating should also be .04. The reasoning behind this is that, speaking from experience, a boat is every bit as technically difficult to operate as a tractor trailer is but in different ways and therefore requires the same elevated level of care.

Just my .02 cents (pun intended)...

[fatlazyless]

Found this post over in the Union Leader's email opinions....sounds like it could be a better plan of legal advice.....how's it sound to you?

"So it appears her defense will be: 'I may have been legally drunk but I was not impaired and it was just a tragic coincidence that I ran into an island at high speed in the dead of night in the rain and my friend was killed.' Wouldn't it be refreshing if for once a defendant admitted the truth and asked for mercy from the court instead of trying to wiggle out of her responsibility? Her attorney's attempt to defend the indefensible in the trial will likely do more damage to her reputation than the accident and publicity have already done. It didn't have to be this way."

Skip M., Ossipee

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Found this post over in the Union Leader's email opinions....sounds like it could be a better plan of legal advice.....how's it sound to you?

"So it appears her defense will be: 'I may have been legally drunk but I was not impaired /TRIM/

I also found this post....

45 during the day and 25 at night are fast speeds and fast enough. If those speed limits had been in effect that night then perhaps the defendant would have taken her boat with twin 425 horsepower motors to the ocean instead of the lake. In the ocean it would have been much harder to run into an island. So I say make the speed limits permanent and it will not only slo people down but maybe save a life or two!
- F. L. Less, Meredith, NH

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

Point taken.

BUT, why proscribe conduct today which was perfectly acceptable yesterday?

That doesn't seem fair.

Whether she was drunk or not, Blizzard should be sued, and sued hard, for her negligence.

Maybe hard enough to collect all the available insurance, then start cleaning her out of her personal / family assets.

Reduce her from "rich girl" to "poor girl."

Just sic some sharp lawyers on her.

What if she's innocent...

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

Point taken.

BUT, why proscribe conduct today which was perfectly acceptable yesterday?

That doesn't seem fair.

Whether she was drunk or not, Blizzard should be sued, and sued hard, for her negligence.

Maybe hard enough to collect all the available insurance, then start cleaning her out of her personal / family assets.

Reduce her from "rich girl" to "poor girl."

Just sic some sharp lawyers on her.

I sense some of the same ambulance chasing tendencies reappearing that you have been accused of in the past. Are you putting in your resume for the job?

[fatlazyless]

Sorry to disappoint you Ryan, but the U.L. post from F L Less was not from me. Could be it's the same person with the same disingenuous modus operandi as from June, 2008, shortly after the night of the Diamond Island incident/accident.