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Old 09-27-2020, 06:51 AM   #1
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Default Sat Sept 26: 32' powerboat strikes kayak

Saturday Sept 26: 32' powerboat strikes kayak on the northwest side of Locke's Island near the Witches at approximately 5:17-pm , adult male paddler suffers a leg laceration and was transported from Silver Sands to hospital.

No one in the powerboat was hurt.

NH Marine Patrol twitter has a press release on it.

Anyone who was a witness or has more details asked to contact Marine Patrol.
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Old 09-27-2020, 08:18 AM   #2
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Old 09-27-2020, 08:37 AM   #3
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Glad it was not worse. A close friend just attended a funeral for a guy who was struck by a jet ski while rowing. Be careful out there
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Old 09-27-2020, 08:51 AM   #4
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This is one of my constant fears, as too often the kayaks dont stand out very well. I am always on the look out for them and they seem to pop up where I least expect them.

I cant imagine the horror of actually running someone over and having to try to rescue and save them. Must have been traumatic for everyone there.

Fortunately I have never gotten close, but when they are out in the open water and you have the right wind and wave conditions, some kayaks seem to blend in where they really need to stand out. I understand why some kayakers may want muted colors, but on a lake like Winnipesaukee, if you plan to go out in to the open water (as opposed to those who hug the shore) the brightest boldest colors you can get could be a life saver. I highly recommend the neon green and yellow and anything really loud on the big lake and in open water.

Hoping the kayaker recovers without life long problems and the people in the boat were not injured. Unfortunately they will never unsee the event,,,
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Old 09-27-2020, 09:27 AM   #5
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Default Captain’s responsibility

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This is one of my constant fears, as too often the kayaks dont stand out very well. I am always on the look out for them and they seem to pop up where I least expect them.

I cant imagine the horror of actually running someone over and having to try to rescue and save them. Must have been traumatic for everyone there.

Fortunately I have never gotten close, but when they are out in the open water and you have the right wind and wave conditions, some kayaks seem to blend in where they really need to stand out. I understand why some kayakers may want muted colors, but on a lake like Winnipesaukee, if you plan to go out in to the open water (as opposed to those who hug the shore) the brightest boldest colors you can get could be a life saver. I highly recommend the neon green and yellow and anything really loud on the big lake and in open water.

Hoping the kayaker recovers without life long problems and the people in the boat were not injured. Unfortunately they will never unsee the event,,,
Let’s not forget that first and foremost, the captain is required to maintain a safe watch. It was calm and clear yesterday. Only boat wakes stirring things up. We have no idea what color the kayak was, or what the paddler was wearing but it does not diminish the fact that it is the Captain who is 100% at fault here.
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Old 09-27-2020, 10:13 AM   #6
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Let’s not forget that first and foremost, the captain is required to maintain a safe watch. It was calm and clear yesterday. Only boat wakes stirring things up. We have no idea what color the kayak was, or what the paddler was wearing but it does not diminish the fact that it is the Captain who is 100% at fault here.
Easy to say, not always easy to see.

Responsibility does nothing to mend a broken body when you were run over because the wind and water and sun/cloud conditions were just right, and the kayak and kayaker were all in muted colors, and the boat operator did honestly just not see you.

Paper rules do not prevent accidents, thats why we call them accidents.

Intentional recklessness should not be tolerated, but legitimate accidents will happen. And no law assigning responsibility will stop it.

Bright colors may help you to not get run over in some situations. And please do not perceive that as victim blaming, it is just a fact the bright colors are more visible and will improve you chances of avoiding a problem.
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Old 09-27-2020, 10:17 AM   #7
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Just a casual observation ..... it seems that most kayak paddles are a dull black, and by painting the double kayak paddle blades a bright white they get seen better by the motor boaters. Ditto that for row boat oars, too.

The moving white blades seem to catch the far-away look-see from an approaching boat.
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Old 09-27-2020, 10:40 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by XCR-700 View Post
if you plan to go out in to the open water (as opposed to those who hug the shore) the brightest boldest colors you can get could be a life saver. I highly recommend the neon green and yellow and anything really loud on the big lake and in open water.
Good point. My vest is bright orange, but the rest of the family is in various muted blues. I'm getting them a new wardrobe for spring.
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Old 09-27-2020, 11:13 AM   #9
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Not a kayaker personally, however, if I were to go on a kayak or row boat I believe that displaying some sort of bright flag would be in order. I don't know how easy that is to accomplish.

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Old 09-27-2020, 11:56 AM   #10
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Wink Cormorants Alert Wayward Winnipesaukee Boaters...

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Not a kayaker personally, however, if I were to go on a kayak or row boat I believe that displaying some sort of bright flag would be in order. I don't know how easy that is.
I'd suggest, instead of a bright flag, kayakers should display a stuffed Cormorant.
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Old 09-27-2020, 12:55 PM   #11
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If kayakers stay closer to shore they should be much safer. Power boats should be at headway speed. If they are going to go out further, they need to be as Day-Glo as possible.

Of course it is the power boat captain's responsibility to keep a watch but spotting small dark boats is challenging even with the best of intentions. It doesn't help when paddlers, in tight spaces, claim the middle of the navigable area instead of getting off to the side and letting the powerboat ease by. Or paddlers decide to pause in the middle of a very busy area.

Yes, many under power are knuckleheads, disrespectful, and dangerous to small boats. They should be held accountable.

However, in a mix up, the paddler will always lose out.
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Old 09-27-2020, 01:12 PM   #12
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WOW

Some of the comments read almost like blaming the rape victim.
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Old 09-27-2020, 01:24 PM   #13
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Maybe kayaks should fly a flag for more visibility.


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Old 09-27-2020, 01:39 PM   #14
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I have to agree, kayaks are hard to see. When we got one we made sure it doesn't blend in with the water.
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Old 09-27-2020, 01:54 PM   #15
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WOW

Some of the comments read almost like blaming the rape victim.
There's a clear distinction between blaming the victim and accepting that systems are imperfect and that everybody involved in an activity has a role in making it as safe as possible.

It very well may be that the captain was negligent, but it's also ok to discuss whether the situation was such that the kayaker was difficult to see.

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Old 09-27-2020, 03:43 PM   #16
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“Give them enough rope to hang themselves but not enough to hang you.”

I wear a bright fluorescent green jacket while riding my motorcycle.

It does not absolve an at fault driver’s responsibility but I just may avoid the whole ordeal by wearing it.

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Old 09-27-2020, 03:46 PM   #17
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WOW

Some of the comments read almost like blaming the rape victim.
Leaving aside that rape is a violent crime, and we're just talking about stupidity, irresponsibility, and recklessness...

Jeff made the key point. No matter the fault, responsibility, ROW; it's the kayaker who's going to pay the bigger price. I spend a lot of time in kayaks, and very little in motorboats. I'm going to be more careful
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Old 09-27-2020, 05:32 PM   #18
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Lots of chirping about this on the Facebook page. Best I can put together is the boat left the scene of the accident but that MP may have caught up to them and now MP is looking for anyone who may have seen the collision.

This might be interesting (in addition to sad).

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Old 09-27-2020, 06:21 PM   #19
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Red face It's the Boat's Fault...

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There's a clear distinction between blaming the victim and accepting that systems are imperfect and that everybody involved in an activity has a role in making it as safe as possible.

It very well may be that the captain was negligent, but it's also ok to discuss whether the situation was such that the kayaker was difficult to see.
Choice of powerboat involves the captain's line of sight:
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Old 09-27-2020, 07:12 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by thinkxingu View Post
Lots of chirping about this on the Facebook page. Best I can put together is the boat left the scene of the accident but that MP may have caught up to them and now MP is looking for anyone who may have seen the collision.

This might be interesting (in addition to sad).

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Thinkxingu - I am trying to stay “mute” on this one - but- the boat did leave the scene and was caught up with at the MVYC gas dock. Whereupon he was arrested & boat impounded. There were people I know who were witness and their statements are already filed with MP at the time of the incident.
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Old 09-27-2020, 07:18 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
Just a casual observation ..... it seems that most kayak paddles are a dull black, and by painting the double kayak paddle blades a bright white they get seen better by the motor boaters. Ditto that for row boat oars, too.

The moving white blades seem to catch the far-away look-see from an approaching boat.
As a kayaker, sailor and power boater I will say that paddles aren't just dull black. within my fleet we have a couple white, yellow, wooden, and one black that is pretty crappy that I hardly use cause it will probably snap. My sister also has no black ones, and just picked up a red one even. So paddles come in all kinds of colors.
But also thinking of how to paddle, the blade shouldn't be too high anyway, barely above head height when done correctly.
As for flags, there are flags that are easily put on the kayaks. I regulars see two people going across the Broads to what looks like Welch with flags, but I can't say I see it often.
I would like to believe that the kayaker has just as much right to be anywhere on the lake, just like a bicyclist has just as much right to be on the road. I know that is going to cause a stir, I hope it doesn't, just a way to look at "why can't we all just play nicely together"
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Old 09-27-2020, 07:27 PM   #22
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I fastened an orange bike flag to the kayak to help. I also hug the shoreline, that helps. I had an incident in the power boat some years ago, near the barber pole, leaving M-Boro bay. A swimmer was crossing right in the boating lane. Anybody that knows there area know that it is tight through there. There was a guy swimming below the surface, he decided to pop up right in front of the boat. I luckily turned in time. Fortunately we were the only boat going through the area at that time as well. If something had caught my eye and I had looked away for a second, I would have hit him and probably killed him. I looked back and the guy dove back under the water, kept going, like nothing was wrong. It really shook me up. Accidents happen be careful out there.
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Old 09-27-2020, 07:38 PM   #23
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Really bad news to leave the scene of (any) accident. Absolutely no excuses for that. Someone's in even more {trouble} now than they ever would of been had they just demonstrated a little integrity and stayed on scene of the accident. IMHO, the only reason to leave the scene of an accident is to try to hide something else you are guilty of, and I'm not "buying" the BS excuse that the operator didn't know he hit someone, or something...
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Old 09-27-2020, 08:42 PM   #24
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I own orange kayaks with yellow bladed paddles and use orange pfd's for maximum visibility. But that doesn't help if boaters aren't paying attention. I had to blow my whistle at a wakeboat a few weeks ago because the driver was watching the boarder and not where he was going. He turned away from me when he heard the whistle and turned around but he still passed about 50 feet away. Good thing I had my whistle. His waves were huge but I got through them ok.
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Old 09-27-2020, 09:08 PM   #25
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Default Deja vu

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I own orange kayaks with yellow bladed paddles and use orange pfd's for maximum visibility. But that doesn't help if boaters aren't paying attention. I had to blow my whistle at a wakeboat a few weeks ago because the driver was watching the boarder and not where he was going. He turned away from me when he heard the whistle and turned around but he still passed about 50 feet away. Good thing I had my whistle. His waves were huge but I got through them ok.
We had these discussions so many years ago when the great speed limit debates were on.
Congrats to you for visibility and the whistle. Too many yakkers just don' get that they are just not visible.
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Old 09-27-2020, 09:33 PM   #26
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Just about anything goes off of our place in the Spindle Point area. Scariest thing last year was a gal (or guy, hard to tell given the distance) swimming WAAAAY out there - right in the extremely heavy boat channel between Spindle Point and Meredith Bay. She had a pull buoy which increased her visibility by almost nothing. She was basically buried in the chop. We couldn't believe it and could only surmise that this individual had no knowledge of the lake/traffic and no common sense to boot. There was absolutely no reason for her to be out there and that should have been obvious to her. In fact, I couldn't see any reason she would be beyond 50 feet of the shoreline. Fortunately for the swimmer, a boater saw her and pulled alongside - probably to (1) ask if she was out of her mind and (2) to coach her that what she was doing was extremely dangerous. We saw another person doing the same thing this summer - not as far out but certainly in the main channel. The boats that fly by here are going to have a difficult time seeing anyone like this in time to take evasive action. We also see many SUPs well beyond reasonable limits from shore. They are more visible but unstable so I worry about them too.

I will say that, until getting my jet ski several years ago, I never really had a true understanding about how difficult it can be visibility-wise on the water.
Depends on the time of day, sun position, glare, chop, background and many other distractions that can divide a pilots attention. I'm sure those folks I observed swimming and paddling the SUPs had no idea. They must think that all the boats can see them and will gently swerve around them.

My wife and I kayak quite a bit. We stay close to shore except when crossing open areas like between Spindle Point and Pitchwood/Stonedam. Our kayaks are bright colors, we stay fairly close together (we feel we're more visible like that) and we make a quick beeline to the next shoreline. Still, it's always in the back of our minds that some captain might be distracted and then who knows what. Five years here and many kayak trips and we haven't had a close call yet.
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Old 09-27-2020, 09:45 PM   #27
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We had these discussions so me years ago when the great speed limit debates were on.
Congrats to you for visibility and the whistle. Too many yakkers just don' get that they are just not visible.
Must have touched a nerve. That could have been me. Thanks for your comment.
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Old 09-28-2020, 01:04 PM   #28
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Default Yes, but....

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Easy to say, not always easy to see.

Responsibility does nothing to mend a broken body when you were run over because the wind and water and sun/cloud conditions were just right, and the kayak and kayaker were all in muted colors, and the boat operator did honestly just not see you.

Paper rules do not prevent accidents, thats why we call them accidents.

Intentional recklessness should not be tolerated, but legitimate accidents will happen. And no law assigning responsibility will stop it.

Bright colors may help you to not get run over in some situations. And please do not perceive that as victim blaming, it is just a fact the bright colors are more visible and will improve you chances of avoiding a problem.
Not sure what a “legitimate accident” is. I’d call this a “avoidable accident”.

I’m not disagreeing that darker colored kayaks are harder to see. But I’ve not read anywhere what color the kayak was, what color his paddles were and what color his life vest was. Regardless, if you run over an 11 foot floating object in the lake at 5 in the PM on a clear, calm day, you, the operator weren’t paying attention. That’s the preventable part. And that’s why this is such a rare event on the lake. MOST captains pay attention — and don’t run away when they are in an accident, oh by the way.
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Old 10-01-2020, 08:36 PM   #29
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Here's a fishing kayak that comes in either dark gray, or three tone dark colors that's designed to be stealthy so presumably one can sneak up on the fish, undetected.

Earlier today, while at the Plymouth Walmart, I noticed five of these kayaks on display, inside the store, close to the fishing department.

Lifetime Yukon Angler 11'6" fishing kayak #91031, price $377
11 1/2' x 32", 78-lbs, dark gray or three tone dark gray-dark green- dull black

$377 seems like a very good price for a sit down/stand-up 78-lb stealthy fishing kayak like this one. Paddle NOT included.
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Old 10-01-2020, 08:47 PM   #30
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Here's a fishing kayak that comes in either dark gray, or three tone dark colors that's designed to be stealthy so presumably one can sneak up on the fish, undetected.

Earlier today, while at the Plymouth Walmart, I noticed five of these kayaks on display, inside the store, close to the fishing department.

Lifetime Yukon Angler 11'6" fishing kayak #91031, price $377
11 1/2' x 32", 78-lbs, dark gray or three tone dark gray-dark green- dull black

$377 seems like a very good price for a sit down/stand-up 78-lb stealthy fishing kayak like this one. Paddle NOT included.
Did you get fitted for the WalMart blue vest while you were there?
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Old 10-01-2020, 10:23 PM   #31
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Not sure what a “legitimate accident” is. I’d call this a “avoidable accident”.

I’m not disagreeing that darker colored kayaks are harder to see. But I’ve not read anywhere what color the kayak was, what color his paddles were and what color his life vest was. Regardless, if you run over an 11 foot floating object in the lake at 5 in the PM on a clear, calm day, you, the operator weren’t paying attention. That’s the preventable part. And that’s why this is such a rare event on the lake. MOST captains pay attention — and don’t run away when they are in an accident, oh by the way.
It sounds like you are trying to differentiate between an accident and negligence and it is possible to have both at the same time, but still not be an intentional event.

Sorry I may also not have been as clear as I should be, my comments were more about rules not actually physically protecting people in kayaks from accidents with power boats (negligence or not), and were not specifically about the accident victims in this situation.

Too often I have observed kayakers later/closer than I am comfortable with, and I am a very active and alert driver. But some days the lighting and the wind and waves and the colors of the kayaks and kayakers life jackets make it very hard to see them, and I can see how some accidents can happen. It matters not that the kayak is 11' long or 20' long, height and color is what catches my eye. And that 5:00 time frame can be horrible depending on the time of year, as the sun angle can be blinding.

I make no judgement in this situation as I know little factual details about it. I simply raise the issue that accidents do happen and there are things that can be done to increase kayaker visibility and possibly reduce the risk of an accident.

You dont have to agree that there is such a thing as an accident, but look up the term: an unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury.

If you believe the operator of the boat intentionally ran over the kayak, that is a different matter than an accident or negligence.

It is also important to understand that having an accident does not necessarily relieve responsibility, it may or may not, but clearly the term accident speaks of intent.

As for leaving the scene of accident, I dont excuse that in any way, but sadly it does seem to happen too often. Panic I suppose, but in the end it only compounds the situation for everyone, and may well result in lose of life or more severe injury due to lack of timely medical treatment.

Again it was a tragic and unfortunate event regardless of it being and accident (with or without negligence) or intentional.
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Old 10-02-2020, 06:03 AM   #32
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Did you get fitted for the WalMart blue vest while you were there?
No, but Ebay has them, used and in excellent condition, for about $25 so I may want to become a proud Walmart associate for Halloween, or something ...... ha-ha-ha ...... if I can find one for just $2.50!

So this kayak, it even has a small wheel, about 2.5" diameter, built into the stern skeg, along with a handle at the opposite bow end on the kayak which together make it easier for one person to move this 78-lb kayak about ...... and away from the accidental collision, after it gets creamed by a motor-boater who never saw it out on the lake, what with its camouflage colors ....... crunch ....... el crash-a-roni!

Is a sit down for paddling, or stand up for casting type of design ..... could be an excellent stocking stuffer gift for Christmas ....... 377-dollars!
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Old 10-02-2020, 08:28 AM   #33
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Kayakers need to own trying to be safe. I try to do my part by minimizing time in boat lanes and my bright colors. A dark kayak doesn't help. There's a guy who fishes from a kayak in front of Shep's in the evening and he's hard to see. His kayak may be bright colored but at that time of day you can't tell. Where he's out in a busy area he could do a better job owning his situation. He could use an all-around light or maybe just get off the water when it gets dark. So yes we kayakers could do a better job.
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Old 10-02-2020, 08:30 AM   #34
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My current kayak blends in with swamp vegetation.

Where I paddle there are no power boats.
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Old 10-02-2020, 08:49 AM   #35
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As a kayaker, sailor and power boater I will say that paddles aren't just dull black. within my fleet we have a couple white, yellow, wooden, and one black that is pretty crappy that I hardly use cause it will probably snap. My sister also has no black ones, and just picked up a red one even. So paddles come in all kinds of colors.
But also thinking of how to paddle, the blade shouldn't be too high anyway, barely above head height when done correctly.
As for flags, there are flags that are easily put on the kayaks. I regulars see two people going across the Broads to what looks like Welch with flags, but I can't say I see it often.
I would like to believe that the kayaker has just as much right to be anywhere on the lake, just like a bicyclist has just as much right to be on the road. I know that is going to cause a stir, I hope it doesn't, just a way to look at "why can't we all just play nicely together"
I agree with most of what you said, however, bicyclists are NOT allowed on the highways for "personal safety" reasons, as well as horses and pedestrians. We all see the signs all the time as we enter a highway. Maybe there should be such a rule for kayakers, and swimmers. There are some places that horses, pedestrians, and bicycles just don't belong, as well as kayaks and swimmers.
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Old 10-02-2020, 09:07 AM   #36
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Keeping safe in a kayak is similar to being safe in the woods during hunting season. It is the responsibility of the motor boat and hunter to not cause an accident, but if you aren't wearing bright colors, you are putting yourself at a higher risk of being injured or killed. Which is no fun.
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Old 10-02-2020, 09:17 AM   #37
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Again and to be 100% clear, NO victim blaming here!

Just discussion about realities of being safe on the water.

Its not a perfect world,,,
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Old 10-10-2020, 07:07 PM   #38
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I almost grabbed a few photos like this myself today.Name:  Screenshot_20201010-200637_Facebook.jpg
Views: 1009
Size:  56.2 KB

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
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Old 10-11-2020, 04:44 AM   #39
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I agree with most of what you said, however, bicyclists are NOT allowed on the highways for "personal safety" reasons, as well as horses and pedestrians. We all see the signs all the time as we enter a highway. Maybe there should be such a rule for kayakers, and swimmers. There are some places that horses, pedestrians, and bicycles just don't belong, as well as kayaks and swimmers.
We need a rule that highways should also be off-limits to Moose.
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Old 10-11-2020, 06:50 AM   #40
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There will be more to happen on this accident. The Marine Patrol has impounded, and still has possession of, the boat that struck the kayak so the investigation continues.
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Old 10-11-2020, 06:56 AM   #41
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From post #38: "This is the same photo. The second one is just zoomed in."

Go check it out and take a good look....... and, that's an order! .......

.......................


So, it looks like the unseen kayak and paddler is a long ways away, like maybe a quarter mile, half mile, 3/4 mile, one mile, or even further out from the power-boat ..... how far away is the invisible kayak in the first photo?

While going 45-mph, the Winnipesaukee speed limit, in a boat with this amount of daylight, how close before the power-boater can see the kayak and paddler?

Painting the double kayak blades bright white with a red or an orange stripe, what with the involved paddle movement DEFINITELY seems to increase the kayak's visibility to all the other boaters, out there ..... plus you get to mess around with spray paint and painter's tape ..... to do a good high visibility, kayak paddle, paint design. ....

http://www.skyaboveus.com/water-spor...elf-in-a-kayak ..... 'How to kill yourself in a kayak' ..... "if all the crazy motorboats don't hit you, you can still freeze/drown in the cold water!"

'Kayaking can be fun, but only if you avoid death!!' .....

NH Marine Patrol twitter reports: Saturday, Oct 10, 2020, aprox 10-am; an adult male fell out of his kayak and drowned in Echo Lake, Franconia NH, which is very close to Rt-93, at the base of Cannon Mtn. ...... which shows that kayak paddlers are very capable of drowning themselves without any help from all the motorboat traffic in Lake Winnipesaukee.
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Old 10-12-2020, 08:31 PM   #42
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Question 'Don't See It...

I've done what I can with my limited Picasa processor, but there's simply not enough resolution in the distant shot.
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Old 10-12-2020, 08:57 PM   #43
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The earlier references in this thread to adding bike flags to kayaks as a safety measure prompted me to search online for kayak flags. I found several sources for a variety of kayak flags, including some with lights. I doubt that I would opt for flags with lights, but likely will equip each of our kayaks with a flag. The incremental safety for all certainly justifies the expenditure.
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Old 10-14-2020, 06:12 AM   #44
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Default ...... a helium balloon on a string?

A 12" helium balloon on a 5' string could be tied to the kayak for extra visibility. How's that work ...... a white or yellow helium balloon? Hannafords in Meredith has them for something like a dollar or two.


For kayaking on busy summer weekends, probably two helium balloons, both bow and stern, could be a help.


Maybe a 36"-diameter, bright florescent yellow weather balloon, attached to a 15' line for the very busy July 4 weekend!


Is there a Belknap County state rep onboard here who will sponsor a new law that requires all kayaks to have both a white helium balloon tied to the bow, and a yellow helium balloon tied to the stern, both attached with a 60" string.


www.legiscan.com/NH/text/HB1593/id/2072726 ..... January 8, 2020: Requiring visible flags on kayaks


At 45-mph, the Winnipesaukee speed limit, what's the period of time between first seeing a kayak, and striking the kayak after you have seen it? So, could be the speed limit should get lowered down to 35-mph what with this lake crowded with both the motorboats and kayaks.

Arrive alive at 35-mph!
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Old 10-14-2020, 07:28 PM   #45
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There have been many interesting comments and suggestions re making kayaking safer, and that’s helpful. However, I would like to steer this in the direction of 1) how is the injured person doing since the accident? and 2) what has happened to the maniac who left the scene of the accident? arrest? jail? fine? Can anyone please enlighten us? Thanks.
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Old 10-14-2020, 08:39 PM   #46
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If there was an arrest wouldn't it have been recorded? The State Police lists "blotters" on its news and event web page showing arrests but there's nothing listed for that date.
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