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Old 10-01-2019, 04:27 PM   #101
Sue Doe-Nym
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I understand that the current cost per pupil in Moultonborough is $28,000. Thatís a lot of dough. Itís been suggested that we should strike a deal with Brewster Academy. You should be able to get the actual $$ amount from the school, but they are reluctant, for obvious reasons, to give the costs.
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Old 10-01-2019, 04:50 PM   #102
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I understand that the current cost per pupil in Moultonborough is $28,000. That’s a lot of dough. It’s been suggested that we should strike a deal with Brewster Academy. You should be able to get the actual $$ amount from the school, but they are reluctant, for obvious reasons, to give the costs.
Brewster (boarding) is a LOT more than that. I think Tuftonboro should leave Gov.Wentworth and join Moultonboro. Not sure how many students are in Tuftonboro though. Also the state education tax is higher because we live in property rich towns.
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:00 PM   #103
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Brewster is a LOT more than that. I think Tuftonboro should leave Gov.Wentworth and join Moultonboro. Not sure how many students are in Tuftonboro though.
My Brewster reference was sort of tongue in cheek. It would be interesting seeing how many students there are in Tuftonboro. A consolidation could be a workable solution. Our taxpayers should zero in on the madcap spending by the schools. They never hear the word NO for any request. It makes much more sense to worry about runaway spending that a proposed assessment. JMO.
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:20 PM   #104
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The proposed property re-evaluation is not a done deal. Real estate is currently selling above assessed value, in most cases. What we need to worry about is the millage rate, TBD. We are encouraged that 3 of the 5 BOD members are fiscally conservative and are holding the Town Administrator accountable, particularly Chuck McGee. BTW, the tax rate is set by the DRA. Stay tuned.
Selectperson is a thankless job with long hours, so there's that and people don't realize the importance of Town meeting where dumb things can be stopped dead if people show up.

The increase in valuation does not increase taxes. That is done at town meeting. If taxes are not increased at town meeting then everything being equal your taxes would not increase for that year (not counting county and state taxes).

What happens with this valuation increase is the lake properties increased in value at a rate higher than non lake properties. When that happens more of the burden shifts to the lake properties because of the overall valuation shift on those properties. It's good news for the non lake properties because in my example above their taxes DECREASE.

Alas, though, politicians always want more money to spend and town meeting usually gives it to them. So I'm betting everyone's taxes will increase, with the lake properties increasing more than the non lake properties. I figure I will be paying 2% more in the zero tax increase scenario I gave up above. Any increase in spending will add to that.
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:29 PM   #105
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My Brewster reference was sort of tongue in cheek. It would be interesting seeing how many students there are in Tuftonboro. A consolidation could be a workable solution. Our taxpayers should zero in on the madcap spending by the schools. They never hear the word NO for any request. It makes much more sense to worry about runaway spending that a proposed assessment. JMO.
I agree with you.
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:45 PM   #106
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Default Moultonborough assessor larceny

Years ago before Moultonborough had a high school, the kids did go to Kingswood Regional High School in Wolfeboro.
Thatís a very long trip.
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Old 10-01-2019, 06:34 PM   #107
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Years ago before Moultonborough had a high school, the kids did go to Kingswood Regional High School in Wolfeboro.
Thatís a very long trip.
They sure did!!
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Old 10-01-2019, 07:06 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym View Post
I understand that the current cost per pupil in Moultonborough is $28,000. Thatís a lot of dough. Itís been suggested that we should strike a deal with Brewster Academy. You should be able to get the actual $$ amount from the school, but they are reluctant, for obvious reasons, to give the costs.
Hi Sue, interesting idea, but more difficult than it might appear.

Brewster's a 501c3, so their financials are available online. Their costs, including boarding, are approximately $60-70K/student, which would likely equate to a number much higher than $28K without boarding.

Even trickier--Brewster only accepts 50% of applicants, and then sends virtually all of them to a four year college. With only 90 or so students per year, another 24 students accepted simply because they live in town would mess up their basic model.
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Old 10-01-2019, 07:21 PM   #109
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Hi Sue, interesting idea, but more difficult than it might appear.

Brewster's a 501c3, so their financials are available online. Their costs, including boarding, are approximately $60-70K/student, which would likely equate to a number much higher than $28K without boarding.

Even trickier--Brewster only accepts 50% of applicants, and then sends virtually all of them to a four year college. With only 90 or so students per year, another 24 students accepted simply because they live in town would mess up their basic model.
Hi Flying Scot, in a recent post, I admitted that my Brewster reference was not serious. However, it would be worthwhile pursuing consolidation with another school system, given our declining enrollment. However, if youíve ever attended a meeting where this is broached, the parents tend to become unhinged. They prefer the status quo, everything local, despite the fact that a larger school district would probably be able to offer more choices in curriculum....and so it goes. People should definitely keep close attention to school expenditures, etc.
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Old 10-01-2019, 07:22 PM   #110
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Someone in power needs to look at this $28K/pupil spending plus all the spending for new new town building, new public safety building, new library, new public works building, proposals for town swimming pool, town senior center, ..... over that last few years. Surely there is someone fiscally responsible in government, that shows some fiscal responsibility and back bone, that can step in and stop the madness. No citizen protesting has been able to make a dent, so far. We citizens are just as disgusted as the out of stater's on this problem
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Old 10-02-2019, 04:48 AM   #111
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Someone in power needs to look at this $28K/pupil spending plus all the spending for new new town building, new public safety building, new library, new public works building, proposals for town swimming pool, town senior center, ..... over that last few years. Surely there is someone fiscally responsible in government, that shows some fiscal responsibility and back bone, that can step in and stop the madness. No citizen protesting has been able to make a dent, so far. We citizens are just as disgusted as the out of stater's on this problem
Citizens are disgusted privately but they don't make their voices heard in enough amounts to overcome the few voices that are very loud. It takes an organizer and a lot of people to show up at selectmen meetings to let them know how you feel. And even if you can't vote I believe they will listen if you get enough people.
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Old 10-02-2019, 06:01 AM   #112
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For all the griping, Moultonborough has close to the lowest tax rate in the state.

It also faces a blessing/cost/temptation. There is a LOT of expensive lake front land in town. That means the costs of the town are spread across LOTS of households squeezed in along the lake shore, distributing and keeping costs down. Even the high paying lake residents pay less in tax than they would in another town for an equivalent property and equivalent town spending. Meredith's tax rate for example is twice Moultonborough's, as are almost all other towns around the lake, i.e. twice as much tax to pay on an equivalent valuation.

The cost comes in when you consider that the population explodes in the summer and those summer folks DO consume town services. They use the library, the senior center, police and fire services, beat up the roads more, etc. The town has to pay for those services.

The temptation is that a local resident (not living on the lake) that wants a new service can pay $50 in taxes for it and the lake people will pay $250 in taxes. What a deal. When YOU don't pay the large portion of a bill, why not go BIG! If you could pay Toyota Corolla prices and get a Mercedes E-class and have someone else pay the difference, why not? It's a rather unique setup.

Yet, Moultonborough has close to the lowest tax rate in the state. The town spending is not an undue burden compared to the rest of the state.

It seems to me the question is one of fair assessment. Property values ARE rising. It is the blessing/curse of a robust economy and a desirable location to live. It is correct and legally required to have current evaluation on property. Raised valuation does not directly equate to raised tax paid. That depends on how YOUR property value currently compares to others in the town and changes in the town budget. It is likely the tax RATE will drop. Yes, NH relies heavily on property taxes. This should not be a surprise. And BTW, NH's overall tax burden is one of the lowest in the nation.

I'm not saying we shouldn't keep a watch on taxes and spending. I'm just saying we should keep things in perspective.
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Old 10-02-2019, 06:10 AM   #113
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So I just got my new "proposed" assessment and my land value magically increased by 16.5%. our property is waterfront. I checked our neighborhood and EVERYONE'S land increased by 16.5% if on the water. I then checked other waterfront in Moultonboro and apparently ALL waterfront has increased by the same %. WOW. Amazing how all properties in one town can increase by the same % across the board!

This strikes me as nothing but a huge money grab by the town and property owners must show their outrage.

I will be appealing but I suspect I know the outcome...
typically when that happens the tax rate per thousand will decrease.
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Old 10-02-2019, 06:12 AM   #114
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For all the griping, Moultonborough has close to the lowest tax rate in the state.

It also faces a blessing/cost/temptation. There is a LOT of expensive lake front land in town. That means the costs of the town are spread across LOTS of households squeezed in along the lake shore, distributing and keeping costs down. Even the high paying lake residents pay less in tax than they would in another town for an equivalent property and equivalent town spending. Meredith's tax rate for example is twice Moultonborough's, as are almost all other towns around the lake, i.e. twice as much tax to pay on an equivalent valuation.

The cost comes in when you consider that the population explodes in the summer and those summer folks DO consume town services. They use the library, the senior center, police and fire services, beat up the roads more, etc. The town has to pay for those services.

The temptation is that a local resident (not living on the lake) that wants a new service can pay $50 in taxes for it and the lake people will pay $250 in taxes. What a deal. When YOU don't pay the large portion of a bill, why not go BIG! If you could pay Toyota Corolla prices and get a Mercedes E-class and have someone else pay the difference, why not? It's a rather unique setup.

Yet, Moultonborough has close to the lowest tax rate in the state. The town spending is not an undue burden compared to the rest of the state.

It seems to me the question is one of fair assessment. Property values ARE rising. It is the blessing/curse of a robust economy and a desirable location to live. It is correct and legally required to have current evaluation on property. Raised valuation does not directly equate to raised tax paid. That depends on how YOUR property value currently compares to others in the town and changes in the town budget. It is likely the tax RATE will drop. Yes, NH relies heavily on property taxes. This should not be a surprise. And BTW, NH's overall tax burden is one of the lowest in the nation.

I'm not saying we shouldn't keep a watch on taxes and spending. I'm just saying we should keep things in perspective.
I understand what you are saying, and don't disagree. What I do find problems with is the argument is that Mboro somehow has to catch up to the tax rate of other more out of control towns. Its like the towns fostering slab cities (trailer parks, with loads of school aid children) complaining they need money from other towns. They made their bed, so they should sleep in it. Just like I don't want M'boro to follow the over spending trends of others, so if the economy turns down, who will be holding the bag ? (the locals and the banks, lol)
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Old 10-02-2019, 06:23 AM   #115
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So if you live in a trailer park you don't deserve the same education as some one living in Moultonboro ?
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Old 10-02-2019, 06:32 AM   #116
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It's true I don't remember a year after a revaluation that the tax rate didn't go down. HOWEVER, in a few years, they spend more and the rate creeps up each year. It truly is all about spending. Somebody always wants more government services.
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Old 10-02-2019, 06:35 AM   #117
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So if you live in a trailer park you don't deserve the same education as some one living in Moultonboro ?
No, it means towns that don't plan ahead shouldn't expect other towns to make up the difference. Or, painting it with a broad brush, adopt socialism and abolish local town control. That is not the way this country is set up, so towns need to take responsibility for themselves, which begins with controlled spending.
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Old 10-02-2019, 07:07 AM   #118
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No, it means towns that don't plan ahead shouldn't expect other towns to make up the difference. Or, painting it with a broad brush, adopt socialism and abolish local town control. That is not the way this country is set up, so towns need to take responsibility for themselves, which begins with controlled spending.
Great response to pondguy... I would like to think he was kidding with his trailer park comment. It is up to all taxpayers who care about local government to be involved and to get in touch with their Selectboard members and those on the school board. The school budget is what gets really inflated; NO is not a word they hear. If you donít want to approve everything,that means youíre against the children......seriously! The school parents are the ones pushing the new gym/rec center. Never mind that the need is questionable, and that the $6.5 million is just the beginning....the ongoing costs will be huge!
Sorry, folks....this turned into a rant...I will 🛑 for now.
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Old 10-02-2019, 07:16 AM   #119
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So children with poor parents in poor communities should be left behind ? No I was not kidding!
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Old 10-02-2019, 07:39 AM   #120
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I understand what you are saying, and don't disagree. What I do find problems with is the argument is that Mboro somehow has to catch up to the tax rate of other more out of control towns. Its like the towns fostering slab cities (trailer parks, with loads of school aid children) complaining they need money from other towns. They made their bed, so they should sleep in it. Just like I don't want M'boro to follow the over spending trends of others, so if the economy turns down, who will be holding the bag ? (the locals and the banks, lol)
I agree that spending should always be monitored.

And believe me, I have major problems with the school system, not just here but across the nation. It has been polluted with school administration bureaucracy that never quite seems to improve the education of our children no matter how much money is poured into it.

Yet, Moultonborough, for better or worse, is a land wealthy town. If you were at a job paying $40,000 a year and you completed college and a dream job at $80,000 a year was offered to you, don't you think you might upgrade your lifestyle? You would be OK to upgrade the schools for your kids? Better house and cars? An uptick in the clothes you wear? Going out to a really nice, and expensive restaurant now and then? A snazzy vacation?

So I think it is reasonable for Moultonborough's goals to perhaps reach a little higher than the average town and, with careful consideration, accept the burden of paying for it.

There will always be people eager to spend other people's money on any nifty idea that comes into their heads. Those spendthrifts must be resisted. And of course it must be recognized that while the town is wealthy, not everyone in it is and due consideration should be given to the impact on them of any additional spending.
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Old 10-02-2019, 07:44 AM   #121
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So children with poor parents in poor communities should be left behind ? No I was not kidding!
Sue and I are talking about this from a A Priori point of view, you are trying to add in A Posteriori to the mix, which I don't want to get dragged down with.

If I did, I might want ask how those "poor" communities became poor.
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Old 10-02-2019, 08:11 AM   #122
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So children with poor parents in poor communities should be left behind ? No I was not kidding!
There are plenty of ďpoorĒ children in this community, families needing public assistance, and these families have the full support of our residents, as they should. They are receiving the same education as all the other students. That does not mean that Moultonborough should have to share our revenue with other towns. In the past, recipient communities bragged about using donor town funds (us) for other than education. Now...how does that sit with you?
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Old 10-02-2019, 08:56 AM   #123
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As a teacher, I think it's not only reasonable to keep an eye on school budgets but necessary. In fifteen years, I've seen money spent on many things that ultimately don't benefit the kids (administrator bloat mentioned above, for example) but that might "look good." $28k a year, if accurate, is very high, but that clearly would be a result of the costs being split between a low number of students.

In the end, the question would have to revolve around the benefits of the current system vs. the drawbacks of combining with other towns. I'd give an arm to have fewer than 30 kids in each of my English courses, so the costs may potentially worth it (assuming positive outcomes, of course).

Side note: I also think it's important that we don't immediately condemn people who question, either in politics or in finances, but often that's where things go and real change stops.

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Old 10-02-2019, 10:15 AM   #124
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Not sure how this went to a discussion of schools. Because there are many things that Moultonborough spends money on, not just education.

Given the population I have never understood, whey there isn't a regional school system, for Moultonborough and surrounding towns. But be that as it may... Lets look at other things in the town.....

Number of employees at the dump....
Number of full time police officers....(don't know if this is a concern or not)
Pay of town administrative staff......
Number of DPW staff.....
State of Police, Fire, and DPW equipment and vehicles....

My point is simple, overall I wouldn't blame the need for higher taxes, solely on education. There are many area's that would need to be looked at to understand the financial situation of the town.

My Main argument for the valuation of property, is that the valuations seem to be getting unreasonable again..... some odd years ago, our tax valuation got north of 700K, over time it back down to just over 500K, and now this year it is jumping back to 650K.... I understand it is waterfront, and the camp that is on it isn't worth that much... But at the same time, I feel like the value of land in NH is modified for tax purposes to be what ever the towns need, to achieve what they need. In Moultonbough the need is to keep one of the lowest property tax rates in the state.......
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Old 10-02-2019, 10:44 AM   #125
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Want to get upset.....look at the Moultonborough teachers contract and all the perks that are built in....insurance, computers, etc, etc. Nobody cares....
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Old 10-02-2019, 11:12 AM   #126
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Want to get upset.....look at the Moultonborough teachers contract and all the perks that are built in....insurance, computers, etc, etc. Nobody cares....
How about the taxpayer-sponsored trip to Senegal for the little darlings?

In response to a question regarding local taxes, the current millage rate is
7.72 per 1000 assessed value:
2.44. Town
1.23 County. Mboro pays about 25% of total
1.95. Local education
2.10. State education fund
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Old 10-02-2019, 01:46 PM   #127
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Want to get upset.....look at the Moultonborough teachers contract and all the perks that are built in....insurance, computers, etc, etc. Nobody cares....
Here's a link to the contract: https://www.nh.gov/pelrb/collective/...gh_school4.pdf

I'm not sure that's the hill you wanna die on.

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Old 10-02-2019, 02:11 PM   #128
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Link to Gov. Wentworth teacher, administrative and support staff salaries:https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FWA...h-4_khW8y/view
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Old 10-02-2019, 03:12 PM   #129
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Link to Gov. Wentworth teacher, administrative and support staff salaries:
Not very friendly of you--nobody likes their salary publicized, and these folks are not exactly corporate fat cats who might "deserve" the attention
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Old 10-02-2019, 03:32 PM   #130
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Really? We pay their salary and they know when they take the job it is made public.
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Old 10-02-2019, 03:57 PM   #131
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Want to know how much those guys on North Woods Law make (and the rest of the government)?

https://business.nh.gov/paytransparency/
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Old 10-27-2019, 09:37 PM   #132
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Sometimes assessments go up but the tax rate goes down proportionally. Happened where I live.


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Old 10-28-2019, 11:33 AM   #133
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I thought everyone knew this, but I guess not. If you hold a public position in this country (not just NH) whether teacher, police officer, govt. official, etc. your salary is public information, since the public pays you.

Nonetheless, I checked my "estimated assessment" in Alton recently and realized that it went up 147.9% from last year. That is not a typo, 147.9%. I contacted the assessment company, they referred me to the town assessor. This is the quote I got from the town,

"There are some properties that have buildings on their parcels but have been assessed for land only property. We are trying to get our data more consistent and yours is one that was not."

Mind you, my property has had a building on it since 1910. I let the town know that I would be taking legal action through the state through the abatement process. Magically my assessment on my property card was back to the same value a week later. Interesting.

I'm with everyone else, I don't mind paying the tax, but when you assess my land and structure for 75-100% more than I could actually sell it for, then we have a problem.
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Old 10-28-2019, 07:44 PM   #134
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I thought everyone knew this, but I guess not. If you hold a public position in this country (not just NH) whether teacher, police officer, govt. official, etc. your salary is public information, since the public pays you.

Nonetheless, I checked my "estimated assessment" in Alton recently and realized that it went up 147.9% from last year. That is not a typo, 147.9%. I contacted the assessment company, they referred me to the town assessor. This is the quote I got from the town,

"There are some properties that have buildings on their parcels but have been assessed for land only property. We are trying to get our data more consistent and yours is one that was not."

Mind you, my property has had a building on it since 1910. I let the town know that I would be taking legal action through the state through the abatement process. Magically my assessment on my property card was back to the same value a week later. Interesting.

I'm with everyone else, I don't mind paying the tax, but when you assess my land and structure for 75-100% more than I could actually sell it for, then we have a problem.
I'm a bit confused. Does your property assessment description include a building? It should. It should also include the type of use for the building. If it's a workshop without plumbing or heat, that is assessed differently than a residence.

If you have been getting a 33% break on your assessed value because the property is not properly assessed, that is not fair to other taxpayers.

I agree that the assessed value shouldn't be as high as 75 - 100% over market value. However, your idea of market value isn't necessarily the "correct" one. The assessment could also be flawed. It certainly is if it doesn't describe a building that has been there for over 100 years.

It is not surprising that there can be long standing errors in assessment that can and should eventually be corrected. Unfortunately, that can come as a shock to people who have been getting an underserved break.

I'm NOT saying what the reality of YOUR situation is. As I said, I'm confused as to what actually happened.
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Old 10-29-2019, 11:56 AM   #135
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Default Assessment Update

The property assessment does include a building.
It includes a type use as well: Island Camp.
It does not have plumbing or heat or electricity. According to the property card it has a bathroom. It used to have a bathroom, it no longer has a bathroom.
My idea of market value has a bit of data behind it, especially recent data to back it up. Two parcels very recently sold on our island for an average of about $116K each, one with a structure, one without. There is no way we could get more than $150K to $160K for what we have. Which is why when the reassessment came in at $263K I was floored.
It would be nice if the towns would actually look at what you can sell it for, before they arbitrarily look at stats for assessed value.
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Old 10-29-2019, 12:19 PM   #136
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The property assessment does include a building.
It includes a type use as well: Island Camp.
It does not have plumbing or heat or electricity. According to the property card it has a bathroom. It used to have a bathroom, it no longer has a bathroom.
My idea of market value has a bit of data behind it, especially recent data to back it up. Two parcels very recently sold on our island for an average of about $116K each, one with a structure, one without. There is no way we could get more than $150K to $160K for what we have. Which is why when the reassessment came in at $263K I was floored.
It would be nice if the towns would actually look at what you can sell it for, before they arbitrarily look at stats for assessed value.
The assessment companies DO look at recent sales and take that into account. I would bet that in their "updating" your Island Camp might have been tweaked into an Island "Cottage" with full facilities until you spoke up.

I would note that the town does none of this. They hire professionals and when mistakes are found, correct them. It is up to the homeowner to verify their house description is correct. Why would the town check out the work of a professional they just paid to do the same thing? But mistakes can be made. Sometimes it is because the assessors have no access to the building. In my case, it was unheated areas listed as heated and unfinished areas listed as finished. My assessment was probably fair if the house had the features as listed.

It would be interesting to know what they based the raised appraisal on and what they then fixed.
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Old 10-29-2019, 03:45 PM   #137
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So... should a "river front/view" or "pond front/view" property be assessed the same as Big Lake front/view property?
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Old 11-25-2019, 10:41 AM   #138
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So I went online today, and was able to see my tax bill due in December which references the new assessed value of my property..... And over all it was what I figured Higher assessed value means they can lower the overall effective tax rate, which lowered quiet a bit......

But yet still cause my taxes to go up roughly 6.5% over last year.....

I am not happy, but I am also not as angry as I was....... I still think it is kind of a crap sandwich... that allows the Town, to raise tax revenue, but still keep the overall Tax rate low, so they can still claim to have the lowest overall tax rate around the lake.....
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Old 11-25-2019, 11:11 AM   #139
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Default It is all in the budget.....

Look at your city/town budgets..... if the budget goes up (and they usually do, by whatever the inflation rate is minimum.) then the amount of tax dollars you pay out of pocket will go up. It doesn't matter how they fudge the equation, property value increase & tax rate/1000 decreases, or property value decreases & tax rate/1000 increases.

Property tax assessment isn't exact.... but I will take it every day over an income and/or sales tax!


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Old 11-25-2019, 11:55 AM   #140
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I haven't read all the posts in this thread.

However, it probably is not the budget, but the appraisal/ assessment cycle.

Those of us that live in Moultonborough, may be affected more by the 20%/year appraisal/re-assessment. Namely, if your property hasn't been re-appraised in the last 5 years, and property sales, in your area have gone up, your tax bill will probably go up.


20%/year for five years meets statute requirements.

RSA 75:8-a Five-Year Valuation. Ė

The assessors and/or selectmen shall reappraise all real estate within the municipality so that the assessments are at full and true value at least as often as every fifth year, beginning with the later of either of the following:

I. The first year a municipality's assessments were reviewed by the commissioner of the department of revenue administration pursuant to RSA 21-J:3, XXVI and the municipality's assessments were determined to be in accordance with RSA 75:1; or

II. The municipality conducted a full revaluation monitored by the department of revenue administration pursuant to RSA 21-J:11, II, provided that the full revaluation was effective on or after April 1, 1999.

Source. 2001, 158:54. 2003, 307:11. 2005, 119:1, eff. June 15, 2005.
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Old 11-25-2019, 02:06 PM   #141
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Property tax assessment isn't exact.... but I will take it every day over an income and/or sales tax!

Woodsy
No its not exact...... And while on some levels I agree with your statement, at others I do not. Property Tax, only limits your revenue base... Even with room and Board tax, you have a limited tax base.... Likewise the same is true of income tax.

However if you look at sales tax, dependent on your tourism and over the border shoppers spending whims, you don't limit your tax base, rather in the case of NH you significantly raise it. The amount of people that come into NH for the day, to see the sights or "save on sales tax" is significant. Everyone fears sales tax in NH because once they have it it will only increase.... But you know if they set sale tax, and put the correct checks an balances in place to keep it from growing exponentially, a simple 1% sales taxes, will create a huge amount of revenue for the state.....

Or NH can continue to tax the non-resident tax paying property owners, to the point, that NH stops becoming a desirable place to own a second home...... There is a double edge sword at play..... And while as a Lake front property owner, there are somethings I must deal with, such as the value of my property continuing to go up.... I don't think any property owner, should be asked to carry the burden of financing the state, when there is a sizable amount of non-resident, non meals and rooms tax paying, tax base out there that could be tapped.......
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Old 11-25-2019, 06:27 PM   #142
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Sometimes assessments go up but the tax rate goes down proportionally. Happened where I live.


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My assessment went up 49% and my tax bill went up 51% even after getting a $75K abatement reduction.
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Old 11-25-2019, 06:31 PM   #143
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So I went online today, and was able to see my tax bill due in December which references the new assessed value of my property..... And over all it was what I figured Higher assessed value means they can lower the overall effective tax rate, which lowered quiet a bit......

But yet still cause my taxes to go up roughly 6.5% over last year.....

I am not happy, but I am also not as angry as I was....... I still think it is kind of a crap sandwich... that allows the Town, to raise tax revenue, but still keep the overall Tax rate low, so they can still claim to have the lowest overall tax rate around the lake.....
We also were able to review our tax bill online today, and while I am not thrilled to have a tax increase, itís not at all surprising. The responsibility of the taxpayers is to try to curb excessive spending at Town Hall. This can be best accomplished at the ballot box and by keeping in close touch with the BOS. Complaining to your neighbors is ineffective, but getting involved can be very positive.JMO.
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Old 11-25-2019, 08:25 PM   #144
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The responsibility of the taxpayers is to try to curb excessive spending at Town Hall. This can be best accomplished at the ballot box and by keeping in close touch with the BOS. Complaining to your neighbors is ineffective, but getting involved can be very positive.JMO.
A very substantial portion of the taxes are paid by non-voting (non-resident) taxpayers so the ballot box option is not available.

You may be able to have a conversation with your Selectmen but they will probably pay more attention to voters than they do to non-voters. As a non-resident you cannot vote or speak at a town meeting so your influence on town budget matters is very limited.

If your New Hampshire home is not your primary residence you are basically along for the (expensive) ride. But, so far it is worth the price!
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Old 11-25-2019, 08:59 PM   #145
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I think non-resident property owners do have a right to speak (not vote) at town meetings, or any other sort of town meeting (ZBA for example) if public comments are opened. It comes under Due Process, not 1st Amendment.

So, for example if a town ZBA was discussing a rule that affects waterfront property owners... all waterfront owners (resident or non resident) would be able to be heard (if public comments were open)

https://www.nh.gov/osi/resource-libr...c-meetings.pdf

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Old 11-25-2019, 09:23 PM   #146
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A very substantial portion of the taxes are paid by non-voting (non-resident) taxpayers so the ballot box option is not available.

You may be able to have a conversation with your Selectmen but they will probably pay more attention to voters than they do to non-voters. As a non-resident you cannot vote or speak at a town meeting so your influence on town budget matters is very limited.

If your New Hampshire home is not your primary residence you are basically along for the (expensive) ride. But, so far it is worth the price!
For years, we were non-resident taxpayers, and quite frankly, we didnít think much about it because our tax bill was so low. However, one of the reasons we are vocal when spending threatens to be unreasonable is that we recognize the plight of the non-resident regarding taxation. I donít have the exact number, but I think 70% of our taxes are paid by non-residents, and many of the properties are waterfront. The choice the non-residents have is to declare their NH property their primary residence.
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Old 11-25-2019, 09:39 PM   #147
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According the the rules adopted by the Town of Moultonborough: Non-Voters may speak about an Article at Town Meeting only with the consent of the Town’s registered voters. They still cannot vote.

So if a non-resident wished to speak about an article being discussed the voters attending the meeting would first have to take a vote to allow it.

I have attended meetings (in a different community) where a town official, the School Superintendent, lived out of town so a vote had to be taken to allow him to speak at Town Meeting about the school budget.
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Old 11-26-2019, 08:18 AM   #148
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I think non-resident property owners do have a right to speak (not vote) at town meetings, or any other sort of town meeting (ZBA for example) if public comments are opened. It comes under Due Process, not 1st Amendment.

So, for example if a town ZBA was discussing a rule that affects waterfront property owners... all waterfront owners (resident or non resident) would be able to be heard (if public comments were open)

https://www.nh.gov/osi/resource-libr...c-meetings.pdf

Woodsy
You are correct that non-residents property owners do have a right to speak, I have done so on both a State and local level..... However because they don't vote, the politicians are less likely to listen...... I have had mixed bag of results over the years....Mostly because the opportunities as a non-resident to voice your opinion are limited.... When I have been successful it has been because there have been politicians and town officials that have been willing to talk, when it was convenient for me, you don't find that often....
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Old 11-26-2019, 08:41 AM   #149
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Default Just a data point

This year, my M'boro assessment went up 10% but the tax bill (received yesterday) only went up 2%. My 2019 tax is back to where it was in 2017, after a small dip in 2018. Of the town's tax rate of $7.72/1000, 42% of the revenue goes to support the county and non-local schools. How does that compare to other towns?

My opinion is that the town frugally manages the tax revenue that it doesn't have to give away. Being a property rich town, is is considered a sugar daddy by county and state lawmakers. Still, the town's tax rate is among the lowest in the state.
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