Passing in a Channel...

[MeredithMan]

...For the many years that I've been boating on the lake, I've always adhered to the "rule" that when in a channel, (e.g., Weirs Channel, GI Channel, Sally's Gut, etc), you maintain no wake, stay single file, (don't pass anyone going the same direction as you), and stay to the right.

Yesterday, around 10AM, I was in the GI channel heading west, (towards Weirs). A boat was in front of me and also one behind me. The one behind me kept getting closer and closer, and then proceeded up the middle of the channel, passing me. I was going 4 mph, (I have a digital speedometer), so the passer was going faster than that. He was not leaving a wake of any consequence, so I'm guessing his speed would also be classed as "headway speed". Boats were coming the other way heading toward Gilford, so not a very bright move in my opinion

So my question is, if two boats are in a channel, both going headway speed and not leaving a wake, can one pass the other if it's headway speed is just a bit faster? Is this illegal or just really annoying and not very bright? The only written rules I've seen around being in the channel is "no wake" and "do not exceed headway speed". But if I'm going 4 mph, and the other guy is going 5 mph, we are both under the umbrella of "headway speed", correct?

I know that someone from Marine Patrol sometimes reads this Forum, so I would really be interested in what he or she has to say on this subject.

Thanks.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by MeredithMan

...

So my question is, if two boats are in a channel, both going headway speed and not leaving a wake, can one pass the other if it's headway speed is just a bit faster? Is this illegal or just really annoying and not very bright? .

I think that the "technical" answer is ..... "just not very bright" & I would dare say, damn right rude !

What's to be ultimately gained ...... exiting the No Wake 30ft ahead of you ?

.

[Winnisquamer]

I think headway speed is a very vague term when trying to pin a set MPH to it. My I/O is 4MPH, my inboard is 7MPH. I would be passing my self in the channel, I guess the question is more is there passing allowed or not?

Whats to be gained? Just spit balling here, I maybe beat you to the gas pump that closes in 5 minutes and you were planning on filling up 90 gallons in your 33' boat while I only needed 20?

[radioman]

Phantom, you said it all, my thoughts exactly, thank you!

[LIforrelaxin]

It is generally not a accepted practice to pass someone in a channel....

Years ago I can remember the MP getting after people in the Six Pack where this behavior had started to make that channel dangerous...(it is not a no wake zone).... That said not sure if it is a law, or not....in the Case of the Six Pack at issue was speed and proximity, so I am sure the violations handed out where for the 150' rule.

Now there have been times where I have yielded and allowed people around me.... especially in the Wiers Channel.... when bigger cruisers have come up behind me, needing to go faster for steerage... But that is an altogether different issue.... and has to do more with my awareness of what is going on around me.....

In Sally's Gut, there really is no room to pass, so people shouldn't be trying to do so!!!!!!!!!!

[camp guy]

Common sense is the answer. Every season this discussion seems to emerge, and the posts are about the same from year to year, but, the single most consistent theme is Common Sense.

Boating is supposed to be fun, and relaxing, so, if someone is rude enough to feel they just can't hold it back to an acceptable speed, try to move over and let them pass. Some people just don't get it when it comes to boating.

The summer is too short not to enjoy as much of it as possible.

[Rich]

IMHO... if there is room, and the other boat is truly at 'headway speed' while within 150 ft of another boat, the shore, docks, etc. then it's not illegal to pass if it can be done so safely.

Is it courteous, or the best thing to do in this situation? Perhaps not.

So while on this subject, if you see someone behind you in a place such as the Weir's channel that can't seem to maintain as slow a speed as you can to maintain control, would/should you speed up a bit (while remaining below a wake and/or 6 mph) to help prevent them from having a control/safety issue, or would you simply ignore that they may not be able to maintain steerage at the slow speed that your boat may remain under control?

[persistence]

headway spped can be very different depending on the boat. the headway speed of a big diesel sportfish can easily be 10 knots clutched in. they need low idle gears and trolling valves to go slower...

and the vessel overtaking really has no rights, overtaking should be done with plenty of room and some courtesy is nice

[Major]

For some reason, the slowest headway speed our boat goes is 6/7 mph with no wake. (We have a 23' boat with a 5.7 liter Mercruiser.) I think it's perfectly acceptable to pass another boat in a channel so long as there is sufficient room to pass and the boat is not creating a wake. I don't think there is a rule against it. I will pass wave runners and pontoon boats in a channel that are going 3/4 mph if only to avoid having to constantly shift my boat between forward and neutral, which can't be good for the outdrive. However, if it's not safe, I won't do it. (For example, in the Channel where it significantly narrows after Channel Marine when traveling to the big lake.) As long as you are respectful, I don't think it's improper to pass.

[Woodsy]

I don't think its illegal.... just bad form.

That being said the real issue is the definition of No Wake...

270-D:1 Definitions. – In this chapter:


VI. "Headway speed" means 6 miles per hour or the slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way.

VIII. "No wake area" means an area where a boat is to be operated only at headway speed.

Here is a link to the MP definition of No wake.

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ad.php?t=10308

[TiltonBB]

As others have said, your minimum speed to maintain control and steering may be different than someone else's minimum speed to accomplish the same thing.

Many times I have gone through a channel and all it takes is one extremely slow boat to make it very difficult for those behind them to maintain control. Most people go through the Weirs Channel maintaining the same throttle position for the entire channel. They should be adjusting for the different water speeds such as when they go under the bridge and it narrows or even when they get out by the beach on a windy day and more speed is necessary to maintain control.

Again, different boats react differently and some are more affected by wind and current than others. If you are in a Channel and there is no one in front of you for 200 yards but there are 20 boats in line behind you there may be a message there!

Too many people operate both boats and cars as if they are the only one out there and all they need to do is look ahead of them.

[Rich]

IMHO people should look behind them every so often to have some situational awareness of those behind them as well as in front of them.

[Descant]

Headway speed is not "slowest possible speed. While the overtaking vessel normally should yield right of way, if a slower vessel is intentionally impeding safe operation, that's a no-no too.

When I come upon a "super-slow" in the Weirs Channel, it's usually a passing signal on the horn and I maintain steerage. Most boats either speed up a little or move to the side, and we all wave to each other.

Whatever you do, always smile and wave. This is pleasure boating, after all.

Other choice: let the girl in the bikini drive. Whatever she does, just shrug your shoulders, then smile and wave. (I know, I know. No angry letters, ladies. Just smile and wave.)

[Winnisquamer]

Originally Posted by Descant

Headway speed is not "slowest possible speed. While the overtaking vessel normally should yield right of way, if a slower vessel is intentionally impeding safe operation, that's a no-no too.

When I come upon a "super-slow" in the Weirs Channel, it's usually a passing signal on the horn and I maintain steerage. Most boats either speed up a little or move to the side, and we all wave to each other.

Whatever you do, always smile and wave. This is pleasure boating, after all.

Other choice: let the girl in the bikini drive. Whatever she does, just shrug your shoulders, then smile and wave. (I know, I know. No angry letters, ladies. Just smile and wave.)

You can't let her drive, she doesn't have a safe boaters card and hopefully she is not a child...

[BroadHopper]

Probably the same guy that pass me in the Weirs Channel no wake last night around 8:30. What's the rush?????

[rsmlp]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Probably the same guy that pass me in the Weirs Channel no wake last night around 8:30. What's the rush?????

Amen to that, bother.

[Major]

I do not believe most people who pass in the Weirs Channel are passing because they are in a rush or being rude. Wave runners and pontoon boats seem to have lower wake speeds. So don't larger boats. The only reason why I pass others in the Weirs Channel is to avoid having to shift back and forth between forward and neutral.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Probably the same guy that pass me in the Weirs Channel no wake last night around 8:30. What's the rush?????

Is there any chance that you were going slower than his boat could operate at and still be controlled safely?

[Gatto Nero]

I have to agree with Major on this one. In fact, I did it today. I was headed towards Paugas just in gear at idle speed but I kept climbing up on the stern of guy in front me. I had to keep taking it out of gear to slow down. It being a Monday the traffic was light so when the channel widened by the Naswa I saw that I had the room I left it in gear and passed to his port side. I wasn't in a hurry to go anywhere but it's not like I'm in a lunch line either. I was going my speed, he was going his. No harm, no fowl.

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by Gatto Nero

I have to agree with Major on this one. In fact, I did it today. I was headed towards Paugas just in gear at idle speed but I kept climbing up on the stern of guy in front me. I had to keep taking it out of gear to slow down. It being a Monday the traffic was light so when the channel widened by the Naswa I saw that I had the room I left it in gear and passed to his port side. I wasn't in a hurry to go anywhere but it's not like I'm in a lunch line either. I was going my speed, he was going his. No harm, no fowl.

I would agree that the area around the NASWA is sufficiently, wide enough that you could pass easily...however nearer the bridge is a much different story.
BTW each time I have been in the Weirs Channel this summer I have had to take my boat out of gear to maintain and not run up the aft of whomever was in front of me. I would imagine boats to my aft did the same.
That said, the only reason I would pass anyone is if they were stopped or addressing some other issue and not underway...otherwise, relax and enjoy the sights!

[ishoot308]

The problem in the channel is that some people don't understand the concept of overcoming the current. If the current is going at 3 mph you can't go at the same rpm or speed you normally go at in other no wake areas. You have to at least go fast enough to overcome the current...I avoid that area like the plague!

Dan

[Woody38]

I have gone through the Weirs Channel twice and have had to constantly shift
out of gear due to creeping up on boats in front of me. My 1938 Chris Craft
seems to idle faster than many or most others. Out of gear I am still being propelled at a slow speed and am at the mercy of the water situation so steering is ify at best. Don't think I would attempt passing unless there was little traffic. Coming through GI once toward Weirs I had to shift from forward to reverse several times as there were 4-5 boats the other direction closely following. I don't know if there is a rule at this bridge concerning letting boats going the opposite way any leeway.
As stated what's the rush.

I am now a retired workaholic and a continuing aquaholic.

Life is great when I wake in the morning and I am still above the grass.

[BroadHopper]

He was creating quite the wake! Actually I have a deep v. At headway speed my boat wanders left and right. Twice the marine patrol told me to have a mechanic fix the boat! Go figure!

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[NoBozo]

Lotta TALK going on here with No Mention of Seamanship.

Good seamanship will take care of almost every situation underway. A lot of "Mariners" on the lake have no idea what seamanship is. Seamanship is knowing how to Handle Your Boat.

Practice your skills: It comes with experience...and common sense... .NB

Let the Flames begin........

[Dave R]

If everybody just went 6 MPH, it would be so much simpler... Then only the rare boat that has to go more than 6 MPH would be impeded. There is no legal reason to go less than 6.

VI. "Headway speed" means 6 miles per hour or the slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way.

The key word in the law is "or". That means you can go 6 MPH even if you can maintain steerage way at 3 MPH.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Dave R

If everybody just went 6 MPH, it would be so much simpler... Then only the rare boat that has to go more than 6 MPH would be impeded. There is no legal reason to go less than 6.

VI. "Headway speed" means 6 miles per hour or the slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way.

The key word in the law is "or". That means you can go 6 MPH even if you can maintain steerage way at 3 MPH.

It also means that you can go 10 MPH if that is the slowest speed that your boat can be operated and maintain steerage.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

It also means that you can go 10 MPH if that is the slowest speed that your boat can be operated and maintain steerage.

Agreed, that's the point of the part after "or".

[Bandrews7]

Originally Posted by persistence

headway spped can be very different depending on the boat. the headway speed of a big diesel sportfish can easily be 10 knots clutched in. they need low idle gears and trolling valves to go slower...



and the vessel overtaking really has no rights, overtaking should be done with plenty of room and some courtesy is nice

Exactly. It is definitely situational, some of these bigger boats cannot maintain the slow speeds in line with smaller boats in the channel. If there is plenty of room and there is someone in front of me that is going headway that I am crawling up behind I will go around them politely. In the biggest channel section of course.


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[Rich]

Maybe what would help is a reminder sign or two in the Weirs channel, one in each direction, as this place seems to have the most traffic and issues.

The sign could read:

Maximum speed:
6 MPH
or
Headway speed

Check behind you
for faster traffic!

I added the part about checking behind you, maybe it can help?

I hate signs, but some friendly reminders may help the issue, and allow people not to be so paranoid about going too slow when there is someone having a problem behind them.

[thinkxingu]

For me it always comes back to: Americans need to relax and have patience. So you have to put it in and out of gear a couple times? Maybe appreciate you have that problem?!

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[Major]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

For me it always comes back to: Americans need to relax and have patience. So you have to put it in and out of gear a couple times? Maybe appreciate you have that problem?!

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I am relaxing, since I'm not worrying about offending someone's false sense of indignation. How am I hurting you by passing you in the wide part of the channel? Maybe it's you who should relax and not be annoyed by someone passing you.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Major

I am relaxing, since I'm not worrying about offending someone's false sense of indignation. How am I hurting you by passing you in the wide part of the channel? Maybe it's you who should relax and not be annoyed by someone passing you.

Wow, someone's aggressive this morning. You need a hug? I never said I was offended, nor that I was hurt, nor that people shouldn't pass in the channel. What I said is that it's not really a big deal and if people were "chill" this thread wouldn't exist and we wouldn't have to hug it out.

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[Gatto Nero]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

For me it always comes back to: Americans need to relax and have patience. So you have to put it in and out of gear a couple times? Maybe appreciate you have that problem?!

I was quite relaxed when I passed in the channel the other day. So, it appeared, was the guy I was passing. However, it was even more relaxing to just leave it in gear and go around him opposed to having to be concerned about climbing up his backside.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Gatto Nero

I was quite relaxed when I passed in the channel the other day. So, it appeared, was the guy I was passing. However, it was even more relaxing to just leave it in gear and go around him opposed to having to be concerned about climbing up his backside.

Right on! BOTH peeps were chill, ya dig?

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[webmaster]

VI. "Headway speed" means 6 miles per hour or the slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way

NHRBA wants you to go at "idle speed only". This morning I noticed this sign posted in the channel:

[SIKSUKR]

Idle speed will also be quite different between vessels so we are still at the same situation raised in this thread.

[trfour]

This captain, in the Weirs Channel was Not a wake...

[Loub52]

Having been previously stopped by marine patrol at the Bear Island Post Office no wake zone, no wake is defined as having nearly flat water at your stern, regardless of what your perspective is of your minimum manuverabilty speed. From my perspective, if you can pass in a no wake with adequate room to compensate for the unforseen loss of engine power with enough margin of safety to avoid hitting something, or someone, the more power to ya'

[tis]

Having seen lots of people stopped, and what I have been told by MP, I agree, Lou.

[BroadHopper]

Got stopped a couple of times and was told to have the boat fix!

[tis]

Glove
Junior Member

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 18
Thanks: 1
Thanked 6 Times in 2 Posts
Default Clarification on "No Wake" rules
I am posting an email sent to Marine Patrol seeking clarification on rules governing speed in "No Wake" zones, followed by the reply from Lieutenant Timothy Dunleavy. (He has provided his consent to reproduction of the email trail in this forum.) I found Lt. Dunleavy's reply to be both interesting and informative.

Glove

__________________________________________________ ______________

Thu, June 17, 2010 9:19:47 AM
Subject: Clarification on "no wake rules"
From: Lake Citizen
To: marinepatrol@dos.nh.gov


Dear Marine Patrol:

I am writing seeking clarification of the New Hampshire laws pertaining to No Wake zones. I first started by researching the question, "what is a wake -- 4 inches, 6 inches, 8 inches?" But I then determined that New Hampshire law makes very clear that the speed allowed in a "No Wake" zone is headway speed...in other words headway speed and "no wake speed" are synonomous.

TITLE XXII
NAVIGATION; HARBORS; COAST SURVEY
CHAPTER 270-D
BOATING AND WATER SAFETY ON NEW HAMPSHIRE PUBLIC WATERS
Section 270-D:1
270-D:1 Definitions. – In this chapter:


VI. "Headway speed" means 6 miles per hour or the slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way.

VIII. "No wake area" means an area where a boat is to be operated only at headway speed.



But believe it or not, I am seeking information on interpretation of the word "or" in the headway speed definition.

I can understand that for very large boats that cannot maintain steerage at less than 6 mph, they may have to travel at 7 or 8 mph to maintain steerage...but they should operate at the slowest speed above 6 mph that allows for steerage. (In other words, they select the second option: "slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way.")

But the real question is what about tiny boats that can easily maintain steerage at extremely slow speeds? For example, a 12 foot jon boat with a motor on the back can maintain steerage at 1 mph. So in this case, is headway speed considered 1 mph (i.e. slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage"), or is headway speed considered any speed less than 6 mph? Based on the NH law, it appears that in the case of the jon boat, law abiding citizens may choose between the two options of :

6 miles per hour
OR
the slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way

In other words, the jon boat can choose to travel at 6 mph (even if it creates a 4 inch "wake"). Is this correct?

Thank you in advance for taking the time to address this question.

Sincerely,
Lake_Citizen


__________________________________________________ ______________

Sat, June 19, 2010 9:52:43 AM
Subject: Headway Speed/No Wake
From: "Dunleavy, Timothy"
To: lake_citizen


Lake Citizen,

Thank you for your inquiry.

Your research is accurate as to the definitions you cite. To clarify your question, I’ll offer you some history behind the law change that took effect in 1995. The “old” language stated, headway speed was the slowest speed that the boat could be operated and maintain steerage way, “but which does not exceed 6 miles per hour.”

In the early 1990’s Marine Patrol began patrolling our seacoast. It was recognized by our officers that the tidal currents in the state’s coastal rivers often exceeded 6 mph and therefore safe steerage for a vessel fighting the current would need to exceed the limits of the law.

As a result the law was changed to its current language. Local Judges have accepted and recognize the intent of the law and therefore the application of the “slowest speed necessary…” is the portion of the definition that our officers most often use in their application of the law.

To try and answer your question specifically as it applies to a 12’ jon boat (your example). The officer would look at several things when considering a boat stop for a violation. They would include the existing water conditions, the boat’s wake, how much faster than necessary they are travelling, is the attitude of the bow “lifting” vs. flat, speed and size of other vessels in the immediate area, etc. I believe that a common sense application of these concepts by any boat operator will keep them safe and legal.

If you have any other questions, feel free to contact me at Marine Patrol Headquarters or by phone at the number listed below.

Safe Boating!!

Tim

Timothy C. Dunleavy
Lieutenant,
New Hampshire Marine Patrol
31 Dock Rd.
Gilford, NH 03249
Ph. 603-293-2037
Fax 603-293-0096

[MeredithMan]

I was at my Marina's annual Customer Appreciation Party yesterday and Marine Patrol had an officer there answering questions, handing out flyers, and doing the community outreach thing.

I asked the officer about passing in a channel. His answer was that as long as the "passing boat" was not being reckless and endangering himself or others, was not leaving a wake, and was at "headway speed", it would be ok to overtake the slower vessel in front of him.

So there you have it.....

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by MeredithMan

I was at my Marina's annual Customer Appreciation Party yesterday and Marine Patrol had an officer there answering questions, handing out flyers, and doing the community outreach thing.

I asked the officer about passing in a channel. His answer was that as long as the "passing boat" was not being reckless and endangering himself or others, was not leaving a wake, and was at "headway speed", it would be ok to overtake the slower vessel in front of him.

So there you have it.....

In other words...common sense!

[Winnisquamer]

Originally Posted by Hillcountry

In other words...common sense!

In other words according to MP, half this forum is just miserable at people following the laws legally because, " they were at the channel in line first"

[Orion]

Originally Posted by Winnisquamer

In other words according to MP, half this forum is just miserable at people following the laws legally because, " they were at the channel in line first"

Then some of the captains need to bump it up a hair above idle and everyone will be happy.

[Bandrews7]

Ah, the Channel. Today I was approaching the channel from the main lake and came off plane about 20 yards from the markers. We were at complete no wake by the marker. The first guy out of the markers was pissed there was a wake in front of him and the next guy back, 20 yards into the zone, screamed over an expletive as we passed. Not really sure why he felt he needed to do that as this is no different than any other boater approaching the channel in the afternoon, but hey, lighten up.


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[jeffk]

Originally Posted by MeredithMan

I was at my Marina's annual Customer Appreciation Party yesterday and Marine Patrol had an officer there answering questions, handing out flyers, and doing the community outreach thing.

I asked the officer about passing in a channel. His answer was that as long as the "passing boat" was not being reckless and endangering himself or others, was not leaving a wake, and was at "headway speed", it would be ok to overtake the slower vessel in front of him.

So there you have it.....

I think the key point here is "not being reckless and endangering himself or others". If there are only two boats in a channel and one passes the other, probably fine. If there are 5 boats in a channel, 3 going in one direction and 2 in the other and all trying to pass each other (a situation I witnessed, with a MP officer stopped in the middle of it all trying to ticket yet another vessel) I would define that as reckless bordering on insane. It's not the action, per se, it's the situation.

Yes, common sense but it seems uncommon for too many boaters.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Bandrews7

Ah, the Channel. Today I was approaching the channel from the main lake and came off plane about 20 yards from the markers. We were at complete no wake by the marker. The first guy out of the markers was pissed there was a wake in front of him and the next guy back, 20 yards into the zone, screamed over an expletive as we passed. Not really sure why he felt he needed to do that as this is no different than any other boater approaching the channel in the afternoon, but hey, lighten up.


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When you were 20 yards (60 feet) from the channel were you within 150 feet of the boat coming out of the channel?

When you got to the channel and had slowed to no wake speed were you within 150 feet of the boats in the channel?

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

When you were 20 yards (60 feet) from the channel were you within 150 feet of the boat coming out of the channel?

When you got to the channel and had slowed to no wake speed were you within 150 feet of the boats in the channel?

I have the same thoughts... Based on the description, it seems like the boat was slowed to no wake before the NWZ, but well inside 150' of the boats in the NWZ. That said, there's no reason for the operators in the NWZ to get that upset unless they were swamped by the wake. One cannot expect to have flat water during busy times in that area and should always be prepared for big wakes; boats are going to get rocked pretty hard coming out of the channel into the main part of the lake there no matter what the floating signs say about wakes.

[noreast]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

When you were 20 yards (60 feet) from the channel were you within 150 feet of the boat coming out of the channel?

When you got to the channel and had slowed to no wake speed were you within 150 feet of the boats in the channel?

Exactly, Nice call. Thank you. (used em all up)

[Bandrews7]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

When you were 20 yards (60 feet) from the channel were you within 150 feet of the boat coming out of the channel?



When you got to the channel and had slowed to no wake speed were you within 150 feet of the boats in the channel?

Definitely not within 150 of anyone.


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