|
Home | Forums | Gallery | Webcams | Blogs | YouTube Channel | Classifieds | Calendar | Register | FAQ | Donate | Members List | Today's Posts | Search |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
08-07-2015, 09:02 AM | #101 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Derry / Gilford
Posts: 1,237
Thanks: 70
Thanked 343 Times in 233 Posts
|
It seems to me that the history section of the attached document in post #91 shows the original intent.
Perhaps all that is needed is that some official needs to review the original document to clarify the errors and update the law to remove the ambiguities, or I wonder if there will have to be a new hearing to correct something like this? Either way, it will be nice to clarify this and get it behind us. This event also allowed me to study up and refresh myself on many of the applicable laws. Things like anchoring, rafting, swimming lines, docks, and many of the other points discussed in this thread. Something new I learned is that I didn't know is that a land owner's swim raft must have the owners name and address clearly marked on the outside of it, as well as it must have 12 sq inches reflectors on each side of it. I can't say that I've ever noticed these on a raft before, but not owning a raft myself perhaps I wasn't paying attention. I wonder if this also applies to those inflatable rafts too? I guess yes. Bizer, thanks again for your clarity on this NRZ issue.
__________________
Don't listen to me, obviously I don't understand what I'm talking about! Let's help each other save time and money: WinniGas.com Last edited by Rich; 08-07-2015 at 11:58 AM. Reason: Spelling and clarity |
08-07-2015, 09:07 AM | #102 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 5,955
Thanks: 1,154
Thanked 1,965 Times in 1,213 Posts
|
Can someone quickly point me to NRZ/anchoring rules? There were some comments here that lead me to believe I'm not familiar enough with them.
Sent from my XT1528 using Tapatalk |
08-07-2015, 09:44 AM | #103 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Derry / Gilford
Posts: 1,237
Thanks: 70
Thanked 343 Times in 233 Posts
|
Read PART Saf-C 407 RAFTING RULES
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rule.../saf-c400.html But lots of good info here, anchoring and most things you need to know. But I find it helps to discuss things (even if it stirs up controversy) as it helps to cement it in your mind and you may have misunderstood something at first reading it.
__________________
Don't listen to me, obviously I don't understand what I'm talking about! Let's help each other save time and money: WinniGas.com |
08-11-2015, 10:22 AM | #104 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
Dropping anchor in front of a house
Most boaters are courteous, when they drop anchor they stay a distance away from homes on the water. Some however, will drop anchor directly in front of your house a short distance from shore not realizing that everything they say and any noise they make gets somehow magnified by the water and carried to the homeowner. This is annoying and totally unnecessary. Using common sense and the amount of open space on the water should keep this from happening. The area Rich refers to is in fact a no rafting zone. It has been for the last 15 years. Unfortunately,for some reason this was only noted on the marine maps for the first few years. Consequently boaters coming in to the western most section of Winter Harbor are not aware that it is a no rafting zone. This is another cause of tension between homeowners and boaters and usually ends with the Marine Patrol coming to notify the boaters regarding no rafting. If Bizor would correct their map to show that there is a no rafting zone from The Winnimir Condominiums west to the Tuftonboro Neck road, there would be fewer issues.
brc |
08-11-2015, 10:55 AM | #105 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Litchfield/Gilford
Posts: 828
Thanks: 233
Thanked 224 Times in 131 Posts
|
Quote:
|
|
Sponsored Links |
|
08-11-2015, 01:44 PM | #106 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Moultonborough
Posts: 3,532
Thanks: 1,574
Thanked 1,608 Times in 823 Posts
|
Quote:
|
|
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to VitaBene For This Useful Post: | ||
08-11-2015, 03:21 PM | #107 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 5,955
Thanks: 1,154
Thanked 1,965 Times in 1,213 Posts
|
Welcome to the forum brc. Can we assume you live in the "NRZ" and have had issues? If so, given the conflicting legal documents, what makes you so sure it's a NRZ in the first place?
Sent from my XT1528 using Tapatalk |
The Following User Says Thank You to thinkxingu For This Useful Post: | ||
dave603 (08-12-2015) |
08-12-2015, 06:23 AM | #108 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Nashua/Winnisquam
Posts: 282
Thanks: 106
Thanked 96 Times in 49 Posts
|
That was also my first thought, just joined and 1st post.
If that's the case I hope he comes back and gives us his side of the story. |
08-12-2015, 01:51 PM | #109 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
NRZ in Winter Harbor
I was part of a group of 30+ homeowners who petitioned to have the area in the western most section of Winter Harbor designated as a no rafting zone. We had sufficient reasons to support our petition and after a lengthy review the area was declared a NRZ. The Marine Patrol is not confused by where the NRZ is. Maybe those who are want to be. If Bizor has responsibility for printing the maps, they should also have the responsibility for getting the information correct even though it may be confusing.
brc |
08-12-2015, 03:48 PM | #110 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 298
Thanks: 14
Thanked 147 Times in 62 Posts
|
Some folks are talking out against discourteous boaters, which there are certainly some. I add, however, that there are discourteous lake-front homeowners as well. I am both a boater and lakefront homeowner and I believe that both groups are generally courteous with obvious and glaring exceptions from both.
I do think it is flawed logic for a homeowner to think that the lake is large and boaters should anchor elsewhere. I choose not to anchor off someone’s dock. The lake is still public property, not an extension of their property. The homeowner, including myself, choose to buy property adjacent to what is essentially a seasonally active, crowded and noisy state park. One should not attempt to love the lake while hating all others enjoying it. Homeowners seeking NRZ's should also realize that many folks use the identified NRZ's as target destinations to go to because they must be nice places to anchor and spend the day. Many boats can still squeeze into NRZ's and anchoring attracts anchoring. |
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to NH_boater For This Useful Post: | ||
08-12-2015, 06:36 PM | #111 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 19
Thanks: 1
Thanked 6 Times in 3 Posts
|
Color me confused
I am a novice, both to the lake and boating in general, at this point we have not even used the anchor. Reading this entire thread has left me confused and I wanted to see if I understand the "rules" which may differ from common courtesy
The 10th post in this thread speaks to rafting rules. PART Saf-C 407 RAFTING RULES. If I read this correctly rafting and anchoring are different, and the rules around them are as well. As I continue through the thread what I am gathering is that it is (technically) legal to anchor (not overnight) anywhere on the lake as long as you are anchored at least 150ft from shore (not deck). If there are more than 2 of you anchored close to one another (less than 50 ft?) then you are considered a "raft" So that leaves me with it is "legal" (right is a different question) to anchor in a NRZ - as long as you maintain more than the min distance to another boat? Just asking |
08-12-2015, 10:10 PM | #112 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Derry / Gilford
Posts: 1,237
Thanks: 70
Thanked 343 Times in 233 Posts
|
Woodguy,
Not quite. If the area you are anchoring in is a designated "No Rafting Zone", then the NRZ rules apply, you can't be within 150 feet of shore, or within 25 feet of another boat, or 50 feet of a raft of boats. Note that there are some NRZ's that have exceptions to these rules. The confusing part is that in a NRZ two boats can tie up together, but not three or more. If two are tied up, then everyone must stay 50 feet away from them. I suppose NRZs try to prevent situations like this: If the area is not a legal NRZ, then you can legally anchor anywhere on the lake, and within 150 feet of shore, someone's home, etc. But it's prudent not to anchor in a busy channel, etc. You can also 'raft' with other boats, which generally means to tie up together. There are also no rules about how close you can anchor to someone else because you can actually tie up to another boat to form a 'raft'. Here's an extreme example of boats rafting together: Some homeowners like to say "Go somewhere else, don't anchor in front of my home". Legally you can do so, but most of us agree that this wouldn't be very polite. In the area being discussed in this thread, the legal description of the NRZ is not clear and could be challenged in court if someone would like to do so as the legal definition of the area is as clear as the mud on the bottom of the lake. It's also a difficult cove in that it's very small and almost any boat in the area could drift within 150 ft of shore or of someone's home as the wind shifts the boat on their anchor rode. Hopefully I have all my facts straight. I know someone will correct me if I'm even the slightest bit wong!
__________________
Don't listen to me, obviously I don't understand what I'm talking about! Let's help each other save time and money: WinniGas.com |
08-13-2015, 06:37 AM | #113 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Moultonborough
Posts: 3,532
Thanks: 1,574
Thanked 1,608 Times in 823 Posts
|
Quote:
I ask again if you read BizEr's message regarding his chart? Here is is again... Quote:
|
||
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to VitaBene For This Useful Post: | ||
dave603 (08-13-2015), thinkxingu (08-13-2015) |
08-16-2015, 04:56 AM | #114 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Florida (Sebring & Keys), Wolfeboro
Posts: 5,789
Thanks: 2,086
Thanked 742 Times in 532 Posts
|
But It's Someone's Back Yard...
Quote:
The trend, however, is clear... Quote:
|
||
08-18-2015, 09:37 AM | #115 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Derry / Gilford
Posts: 1,237
Thanks: 70
Thanked 343 Times in 233 Posts
|
Seasonally active: Summer to early fall
Crowded: On peak weekends Noisy: Maybe during some daylight, weekend hours when the GFBL boats are running, or some inconsiderate person is running their music too loud, or you consider the delight of kids playing in the water noisy, or during fireworks displays from about dark to about 1 AM. The rest of the time, the lake is very quiet and almost deserted.
__________________
Don't listen to me, obviously I don't understand what I'm talking about! Let's help each other save time and money: WinniGas.com |
08-18-2015, 10:28 AM | #116 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Winnisquam
Posts: 408
Thanks: 72
Thanked 115 Times in 73 Posts
|
I had boaters anchor about 20-30 feet off my dock this weekend for maybe 3-5 hours. I waved and one gentleman swam over and asked if they were disturbing me. I told them no that's what the lakes for, to enjoy.
If you want to complain about every sight and sound during the weekends in a primarily tourist region then move to MA. Thought this state was live free or die? Now every old man who comes out disgruntled a boater must cater to do everything they say? There is a line between a boater being disrespectful and a landowner just being ridiculous all laws aside in my opinion. |
08-18-2015, 12:11 PM | #117 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 143
Thanks: 16
Thanked 48 Times in 29 Posts
|
Quote:
If someone is anchored in front of your place not being obnoxious, give them a quick wave and a hello, then go about your normal activities. If they become obnoxious then say something. Starting out on the defensive usually doesn't get you anywhere. In the words of George Costsnza " You know we are living in a society! We're supposed to act in a civilized way" Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
|
08-18-2015, 12:35 PM | #118 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Nashua/Winnisquam
Posts: 282
Thanks: 106
Thanked 96 Times in 49 Posts
|
Just playing Devils advocate on this one:
Looking at his user name I'll assume he's on Winnisquam. There are parts of that lake where if you anchor you have no choice but to be within 20 or 30 feet of someone's dock or your blocking passage way for other boaters. North end of the lake and south end before the island for example. I have anchored at both places with no problems, but there's not too many million dollar plus homes on that lake. Some are at the north end, and I tend to go in that area, again no problems, but I hardly ever even turn on the radio. And most people up there usually just wave at you. |
08-18-2015, 12:55 PM | #119 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 5,955
Thanks: 1,154
Thanked 1,965 Times in 1,213 Posts
|
|
08-18-2015, 12:59 PM | #120 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Nashua/Winnisquam
Posts: 282
Thanks: 106
Thanked 96 Times in 49 Posts
|
Bigger houses and land tend to have larger dock space. Did not mean it as a reflection on money. The million plus houses on Winnisquam have bigger lots and larger dock/beach area. You can't be less than 30 feet from some of them with out blocking passage way.
|
The Following User Says Thank You to dave603 For This Useful Post: | ||
thinkxingu (08-18-2015) |
08-18-2015, 01:01 PM | #121 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,132
Thanks: 111
Thanked 413 Times in 246 Posts
|
Rich,
It is funny you should mention the noise issue. I was sitting down by the lake over the weekend reading a book and noticed that there is a constant thrum of noise. Boats running up and down the lake, wind in the trees, people laughing, etc. but, during the day it is constant. Not overbearing but constant I never noticed it before but, like the guy who builds a house next to a highway and whenever he is asked how he can live with it he says "What noise?", I think we all become desensitized after a while. Once i stopped paying attention to it, it seemed to fade away. I'm sure it is always there (at least during the weekends) but I never noticed it. |
08-18-2015, 01:42 PM | #122 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Winnisquam
Posts: 408
Thanks: 72
Thanked 115 Times in 73 Posts
|
Quote:
I agree those parts of the lake are the nicest for doing just that. Relaxing anchored not in the path of boats tubing/skiing/surfing/wakeboarding. So every time you want to do that the homeowner should comes out pissed off because you and your family are quietly enjoying them selves on a Sunday morning. Kind of makes me angry to think people expect total silence. Few more years and people will be complaining the Loon calls are too loud for them to enjoy their morning coffee. |
|
08-18-2015, 03:11 PM | #123 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Derry / Gilford
Posts: 1,237
Thanks: 70
Thanked 343 Times in 233 Posts
|
Quote:
It can be boats, planes (yes I hear them too), cars and motorcycles on the roads, etc. I think the geometry of the lake echos, and contains these sounds since the lake is basically a valley surrounded by hills. I could be wrong, but I think it contributes to the hum of fun (the sound of people having fun in and around the lake). Some people hate the sounds of others enjoying themselves. I'm more like Winnisquamer, when I see people near the dock I live on every weekend, I smile, wave and say hi. Being happy is contagious! How can you not be happy, when you are surrounded by happy people that are enjoying themselves?
__________________
Don't listen to me, obviously I don't understand what I'm talking about! Let's help each other save time and money: WinniGas.com |
|
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Rich For This Useful Post: | ||
trfour (08-18-2015), Winnisquamer (08-18-2015) |
08-24-2015, 06:49 PM | #124 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 332
Thanks: 0
Thanked 242 Times in 81 Posts
|
Last week, I wrote the Commissioner of Safety regarding the ambiguity of the NRZ regulation. I am awaiting his reply.
|
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Bizer For This Useful Post: | ||
09-24-2015, 09:06 AM | #125 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Derry / Gilford
Posts: 1,237
Thanks: 70
Thanked 343 Times in 233 Posts
|
It's been a month, did you ever get any kind of an answer to this? Just wondering, thanks!
__________________
Don't listen to me, obviously I don't understand what I'm talking about! Let's help each other save time and money: WinniGas.com |
12-12-2015, 09:25 AM | #126 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 332
Thanks: 0
Thanked 242 Times in 81 Posts
|
The Department of Safety intends to hold hearings to clarify the matter. Here is a letter from them on the subject.
http://www.bizer.com/DeptSafety151207_Page1.jpg http://www.bizer.com/DeptSafety151207_Page2.jpg |
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Bizer For This Useful Post: | ||
Newbiesaukee (12-12-2015), Rich (12-14-2015) |
12-12-2015, 11:30 AM | #127 | |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Guilford, CT and Bear Island, NH
Posts: 28
Thanks: 430
Thanked 19 Times in 8 Posts
|
Unenforceable as Written
Quote:
|
|
12-14-2015, 10:26 AM | #128 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Derry / Gilford
Posts: 1,237
Thanks: 70
Thanked 343 Times in 233 Posts
|
Bizer, thanks for following through with this.
If they had the tax maps from back when this NRZ was originally implemented and documented, perhaps the proper location could easily be determined. It's hard to know now if the block numbers existed on the maps back then and were simply not documented on the original NRZ declaration. Maybe it's too hard to find the tax maps from that time period? However, since they are now saying that a new hearing will be needed, I wonder if the new hearing could jeopardize this NRZ, or is it possible that the hearing could be limited to only clarifying its proper position?
__________________
Don't listen to me, obviously I don't understand what I'm talking about! Let's help each other save time and money: WinniGas.com |
06-25-2016, 06:14 AM | #129 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 5,955
Thanks: 1,154
Thanked 1,965 Times in 1,213 Posts
|
Bizer, any updates on this?
Sent from my XT1528 using Tapatalk |
06-25-2016, 08:22 AM | #130 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 332
Thanks: 0
Thanked 242 Times in 81 Posts
|
I have not heard anything. If there were further hearings or legislation on the subject, I was not notified. If nothing has been done, then the MP will have a tough time enforcing this ambiguous regulation.
After checking Department of Safety boating regulations and the Marine Patrol's web page, neither has changed their wording of the regulation. Last edited by Bizer; 06-25-2016 at 08:27 AM. Reason: After checking NH regulations and MP web pages |
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Bizer For This Useful Post: | ||
HellRaZoR004 (06-25-2016), thinkxingu (06-25-2016) |
Bookmarks |
|
|