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12-11-2017, 09:19 AM | #1 |
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LACONIA Tax Increases
Looks like the property valuations have gone up from 15-35% from 2016 to 2017, wonder what 2018 has in store. What is the city doing with all that extra cash?
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12-11-2017, 10:10 AM | #2 |
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12-11-2017, 10:24 AM | #3 |
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Laconia Tax Increase
My assessed value on a Laconia waterfront property went up about 21%. The tax rate in Laconia declined from $22.20 in 2015 and 2016 to 21.03 in 2017. The net result was still an increase of several thousand dollars per year in real estate taxes on this one property.
The assessors office said that they were aware that waterfront sales amounts were substantially higher than what the city had them assessed for so they made the changes. Non waterfront values did not change much at all. They use a process called equalization. Equalization is a process carried out annually by Municipal Assessing Jurisdictions and the New Hampshire Department of Revenue Administration which ensures that common property tax burdens are apportioned fairly and equitably among taxpayers. |
12-11-2017, 10:33 AM | #4 | |
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12-11-2017, 10:57 AM | #5 |
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Here's what seems like a good way for Laconia to be spending: 4.3-mil dollars; Oct 2016 to May 2017 rebuild project, Lakeside Ave infrastructure improvement; the new and improved Lakeside Ave is now looking very good .... your Laconia tax money was very well spent here!
http://www.laconiadailysun.com/newsx...vement-project Would be nice for Weirs Beach to be a year 'round venue, maybe with a go-to play facility like an indoor water park. Some facility similar to the www.kahunalaguna.com water park up in North Conway. Maybe that corner lot that used to be home to a volcano, summer outdoor water park could be a good location?
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12-11-2017, 11:35 AM | #6 | |
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12-11-2017, 11:59 AM | #7 |
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Laconia Tax
My assessed value in Laconia went up by $11,200, but my December tax bill went down by $36.
Now our assessed value here in Pembroke went up by $200, but our December tax bill went up by $900. Go figure, Bill |
12-11-2017, 05:33 PM | #8 |
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Thank the Pembroke schools for that tax hike. $1 million short due mostly to lower enrollment in the high school. The next few budget meetings are going to be uglier and uglier.
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12-11-2017, 12:09 PM | #9 |
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taxes
The gripe I've always had with the assessments is that a property on a private road, with no city services (trash pickup, plowing, road maintenance) is valued by the assessors office same as properties with town services. Wouldn't it make sense that a property that has to pay for those services in addition to the standard tax bill be worth less than ones that didn't? This is true when it comes to selling the property, but not is the eyes of the assessor....
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12-11-2017, 12:50 PM | #10 |
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Again, don't forget the first tax bill that you get in June is half of what the total tax was from the year before. It is estimated. So when the actual tax rates come out the amount you still owe for the year(after what you paid in June) is on that bill.
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12-11-2017, 01:06 PM | #11 | |
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I don’t see any adjustment downward in our taxes for that either. |
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12-11-2017, 01:47 PM | #12 |
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You are correct and there is also no regular police patrols (obviously if the are called or dispatched through 911 they respond)in SD/LB any longer but if I can see the lake from my window although I have no direct access my rate is higher. The tax structure in Laconia is completely hap hazzard and random.
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12-11-2017, 02:25 PM | #13 |
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Laconia Screws Homeowners at Xmas
LMAO,
Was wondering when someone would post comments about the thievery Laconia just pulled off. We own in Pickerel Cove, sure it's waterfront but limited access to the BIG lake as well were on a private road, with little to no city contribution. Was a major undertaking and over 2 years for the City to fix the dilapidated city road we pass to get to our road. I'd say many of us got screwed, 232 to 298 want to see the city drop it that much in less than 1/2 year. Anyway, maybe I missed the assessment notification they surely sent out prior to raising property values, excessively. |
12-11-2017, 03:16 PM | #14 | |
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12-11-2017, 03:22 PM | #15 |
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No thievery...
There are lots of "private" streets that the city has no responsibility for. This includes most of the condo developments.
The tax rate went down because the assessed values went up.... pretty simple! Woodsy
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12-11-2017, 03:34 PM | #16 |
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Unclear on the concept...
Why is the cost of running a town connected to the value of the residences?
If a property's value increases, the cost of running the town doesn't go up. I see Meredith is spending their windfall on a new DPW building. That is certainly going to enhance my life.
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12-11-2017, 03:51 PM | #17 |
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Most lakefront owners get screwed, as prices keep moving up. If you don't sell your property, you still get hit. However, the place to express your issues and concerns is at the Board of Select person's or what ever your town calls them. All that is going on is that more taxes are being paid by lakefront owners than others, and the lakefront people by and large cannot vote for anything as many are non residents. After all, they spend the money on wish list items because they can...... Lots of waste. But they respond to the voters and screw others.
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12-11-2017, 05:48 PM | #18 | |
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You can argue for and against the current form of tax apportionment just as you can argue for and against about any form of tax; sales, income, fees, business, etc. At some point the elected legislature decided how to apportion taxes to get the bills paid and THAT is how it works in NH. I personally think the reasoning about ability to pay tax relating to the value of your property is pretty fair. In addition, I like to keep the taxes close at hand, in the town, where you have much more power to impact spending decisions. Most other forms of taxes end up being collected by the state which is far less accountable to individual citizens and keeps escalating spending as long as they already have their hands in your pocket. Further, lobbyists can lobby the state to spend easier. It is pretty impractical to lobby individual towns to spend money for a cause. Since the state doesn't have a spigot of money, they have to say no to lobbyists. Finally, there is the history of almost every other state. They all bought into income and sales taxes to provide relief from property taxes. Over time, the property taxes increased again. Now they have it all, income, sales, and property taxes and an overall bigger spending/tax bill. Again, this is my opinion. Your milage may vary. |
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12-11-2017, 06:16 PM | #19 |
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Big Taxes on the Big Lake
As usual there is lot's of pros and cons about taxation.
I think it was a politically charged subject back in the early day's in simpler times. Paying Taxes and receiving something for the money gives one the feeling they have tangible interest in their payments. We fought long and hard to get the City of Laconia to fix Hilliard Road as it was literally falling apart, they removed the pavement and made it dirt, lol. This is the same City that post signs around town "Beware of Potholes" because they can't afford to fix the roads. We own in the fine city of Laconia, but we have no voting rights, we're Nashua residents, so much for our voice in the process. Simply put, it's amazing a small city with a wealth of Taxation around several Bodies of water has No money. For those who have interest there is a property valuation comparison at the Assessors area of the Cities Web-Site, around Pickerel Cove most of the Homes have property values increase between 50K and 114K the average being around 60K. Sadly some folks got hit pretty hard, I'm sure based on the wild fluctuations in Property Values based on a flurry of Real-Estate sales over the past few years. Another surprising thing is there is no cap, sure the tax rate didn't increase but they sure took a uptick market and shoved it up folks assess. Laconia is a pathetic city, selling is now more about just getting out of dodge than paying the extra grand in taxes. |
12-11-2017, 06:19 PM | #20 |
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"The cost of running the town has no connection to the values of the residences or services individual residents receive. The value of the residences IS associated with the assumed ability to pay tax (people who can afford an expensive house can afford to pay a higher portion of the taxes) and tax is apportioned on THAT basis."
Not necessarily true. I have seen many neighbors who can no longer afford their property tax and have had to sell their property and move. You can't pay your taxes with equity, unless you go into debt by borrowing against it. Lots of people are paper rich and cash-flow poor.
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12-11-2017, 07:35 PM | #21 | |
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Someone else who CAN afford to pay the taxes AND the higher value to purchase the house will buy the house. Again, I'm not saying it's a perfect tax structure but it is the one we have lived with for quite a while. Anyone that owns property should know that they have to pay property tax and that tax is likely to grow over time. If you are lucky enough to have a valuable (high tax) property that doesn't excuse your responsibility for paying taxes on it any more than you having to repair the roof or paint it or put a new septic system in. It's a known cost of ownership and all the other costs increase over time as well. |
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12-11-2017, 04:55 PM | #22 | |
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To answer another post: There was no advance notice of the value change from Laconia. I thought that they would or should send something out in advance but that did not happen. |
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12-11-2017, 05:32 PM | #23 |
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If you look at the assessments around lagua bay there are some significant discrepancies. It really comes down to the have and have nots. Those that have a vote seemed to have faired better than those that don’t have a vote (or those areas that are previewed to have the least voting residents), for the most part. And if the city is just now figuring that their assessment of waterfront property was 30% too low, who was asleep at the switch on that? And remember they didn’t change the assessment on the structures for the most part, just the land. Look at real estate comps, they didn’t go up by 30% this year.
And yes the value of my property is tied to the amount of services that are received from the city, because in addition to all the maintenance, trash, snow removal the taxes are still the same as others, so someone looking to purchase the property has to factor in all those costs |
12-11-2017, 05:34 PM | #24 |
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Some helpful links
Here are some helpful links to see how your assessed value may have differed from say, your neighbors and others in Laconia. Some increases were very large while others actually went down slightly. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason - it all seems arbitrary to me especially when I compare land value and improvement value. The old to new report shows the increase year over year.
https://www.laconianh.gov/160/Assessing ...and this link gives you more detail on your assessed value but you can also look up others if you have the address: http://gis.vgsi.com/laconianh/Search.aspx You may be inspired to file for an abatement but if any of their information is inaccurate (which much of it will be) then they can reassess you property for an even higher value (for example, if the square footage or acreage reported is less than what it actually is). |
12-11-2017, 06:58 PM | #25 |
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The assessed value only decides what percentage of the amount of money the town decided to spend you have to pay. Increases in your assessment due to market improving generally doesn't increase your taxes UNLESS for some reason your property increases more in value than others. The increase in your taxes is due to the town spending more money. This could be town elected officials spending more money or it's decided by town meeting depending on where you live. Politicians love it when people blame increasing property values for their deeds, it lets them off the hook. Don't be fooled.
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12-11-2017, 07:36 PM | #26 |
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If you're worried about your lake tax bill know, keep your fingers crossed, and write to your Congressmen to urge him to vote NO on the current Republican tax plan. if it passes, property taxes will no longer be fully deductible on your federal return.
The details are still being hammered out, but most reports say that only the first $10,000 will be deductible. So if your primary residence has $10,000 or more in taxes, and your lake house has another $10,000, you will lose $10,000 in deductions. It will have the same cash impact as your lake taxes increasing by $3,300 (assuming a 33% tax bracket). |
12-11-2017, 09:20 PM | #27 | |
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12-11-2017, 10:59 PM | #28 |
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Regardless if the all things remain the same and they re-evaluate properties the end result is a higher tax bill if the property values increase, regardless if the town spends or intends to spend the money to be collected.
The only thing they can say, is, See we didn't raise the Tax Rate, but did one better and re-evaluated the property values to reflect recent sales, 25-35 percent is a pretty big hit if your property happens to be one of those they decided to increase. The long and short of it, Laconia jammed the taxpayers that have the least over all impact on the cities services, Schools etc., and better those who live in Association Controlled Properties, talk about your cake and ice-cream., and even better most aren't voting residents....... |
12-12-2017, 07:41 AM | #29 | |
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12-12-2017, 08:17 AM | #30 |
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Trackeer.....
Laconia didn't jam anyone.... The real estate market for the lake has low inventory and high demand, especially for the waterfront homes. If you want to blame somebody for an increase in your assessment... blame the flatlander out of state buyer who is willing to pay the 20%-30% premium over and above the assessed value to own waterfront property. It is not people working and living in Laconia that are buying these houses. Woodsy
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12-12-2017, 08:36 AM | #31 | |
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12-12-2017, 08:57 AM | #32 |
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RSMLP...
Sorry if my post was unclear... You are right.... assessed value doesn't equal market value. But the post that started this was about an increase of 15%-35%+ jump of assessed value. (with waterfront homes taking the bigger percentage of the hit). The only reason the assessed value jumped is because the waterfront homes that have sold (market is tight, high demand and not a lot for sale), have consistently sold for 20%-30% higher than what they were assessed for. Woodsy
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12-12-2017, 10:03 AM | #33 |
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taxes
Perfect example of the tom foolery going on
Barton's Motel, 4.2 acres of water front property had it's assesment just for the value of the property go down from $726k to $531K. Margate hotel, 4.8 acres assessed value of just the property again went down from $1.3M to $1M How are those properties valued at $126k to$208K per acre, but residential property on the other side of the lake, had their valuations increase as much as 42% with an average value of $1.5M per acre of land? |
12-12-2017, 10:16 AM | #34 |
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Commercial vs. Residential.... 2 totally different things! You need to compare apples to apples.
Woodsy
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12-12-2017, 10:40 AM | #35 | |
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12-12-2017, 11:51 AM | #36 | |
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A good number of long-time lakefront property owners couldn't afford to buy their own properties at today's prices. The idea that the value of a property reflects ability to pay a tax on it is severely flawed. While it may be somewhat true at the time of purchase, it becomes less so as time passes. Even just retiring on a fixed income changes that. Inheriting a property bought long ago by parents and trying to keep it in the family can be rather difficult. Since high valuations of lakefront property are driven by sales to those who want it and can afford to pay, your own property tax is thus one you pay on the basis of someone else's buying power, not your own. If we were starting over in deciding how to assess taxes, and you proposed paying your share according to how much buying power someone else had, you'd be laughed out of the room. |
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12-12-2017, 10:58 AM | #37 | |
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It just goes to show that the top earners are still going strong and will only get stronger under this administration. The gap continues to get wider between middle class and the very rich. |
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12-12-2017, 11:46 AM | #38 |
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Taxes
The land values of anyone on pagus bay on a residential road saw in increase of 41.9% across the board, only exceptions
Wiers Boulevard, residential saw a 6-10% increase (most were 6.2%) Union Ave Residential (not many) still got the 41.9% increase The big winners, Commercial land values took some big hits (most also saw reductions in the value of the improvements as well) Margate 76 Lake St -24% Margate 84 Lake St -9% Bartons -27% Lazy E -10% Naswa -31% Lakehouse Cottages -28% Old Gas Station/ motel next to bridge -33% Commercial seems to have some variability, where residential was a flat 41.9% across the board |
12-12-2017, 03:29 PM | #39 | |
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Ha!!! I blame no one for the property value increase, I simply state that the City essentially did a money grab based on a unsustainable real-estate market. This is a City that operates apparently Hand to Mouth, I have had many conversations with the cities head of Roads etc., his comments leave me to believe there is no money for him to operate his department properly. As for flatlanders etc., that is a story older than my time here in NH, a second HA!!!! yes I didn't expect Laconites to be buying Lake Front in Laconia, thankfully for the Flatlanders the Laconia folks have them to help support their obviously financial screwed up City. |
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12-12-2017, 04:02 PM | #40 | |
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City of Laconia
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Laconia would have been better served by following Meredith's model and by not investing in section 8 housing. You get what you subsidize. I grew up in Laconia, and unfortunately regret building our home there. |
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12-12-2017, 06:20 PM | #41 | |
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12-12-2017, 09:47 PM | #42 | |
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My conversations with folks at the City clearly indicates to me the lack of cohesive management, a PT Mayor and City Administrator who seems impossible to connect with, at least the Cities Road person makes himself available even if the conversation is almost pointless. Like you I am so sorry I purchased my little home in Pickerel Cove, yes I did say little, 900sf of living space, hardly Governors Island property and now a tax bill of 6600 bucks a year on a private road. Perhaps it's time those who receive the least from the city consider the proposition suggested sometime back, The Weirs in NH, or maybe move my property line over a mile or so and be in Meredith. You are absolutely correct, the Theater by the way I just discovered the place this year, had never been over there, very nice, yep but can't afford to fix the cities streets, Laconia is a Joke.... |
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12-12-2017, 09:50 PM | #43 | |
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12-13-2017, 06:34 AM | #44 |
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Taxes
Does anybody remember sometime in the 90s about the north side of Pagus Bay and Wiers Beach forming their own town?
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12-13-2017, 08:25 AM | #45 |
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Thank you, too!
Same to you trackeer! When I was a kid (13-15), I used to take my 14 foot Glastron with a giant (oversized) 40 horse Johnson motor to Pickerel Cove to waterski when Paugus Bay was too rough. The boat could barely fit through the culvert.
Obviously, most residents of Laconia are good, hardworking people. However, as you recognize, there is an element downtown that detracts from the City's ability to attract businesses. Presently, "there are 14 low income housing apartment complexes which contain 619 affordable apartments for rent in Laconia." (affordablehousingonline.com) My wife, who isn't timid, called me the other day from Church Street. She was picking up a prescription for her mother from Genesis, and was being followed by a tweaker with a backpack. She was genuinely scared, and called me just in case. Unfortunately, that is all too common an experience downtown. And jetskier, I am glad you mentioned the WOW trail. I read in the Daily Sun about an incident (some sort of crime, robbery maybe) in which the perpetrator got away on the WOW trail. That is what our $400,000 paid for! We need a comprehensive plan to eliminate section 8 housing from downtown in an effort to attract businesses. Unfortunately, I am afraid improvement is impossible until this happens. |
12-12-2017, 10:14 AM | #46 | |
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It is true that some people will see their marginal rates go down as the brackets are reduced, but others will see their marginal rates go up. See link below to find out where you stand. The details are still being hashed out to reconcile House and Senate plans, but all sides agree that many people, especially those with high salaries and high property taxes, will see their payments to the IRS increase. http://www.businessinsider.com/tax-b...arison-2017-11 |
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12-12-2017, 03:04 PM | #47 | |
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Furthermore - it's quite possible that this turns into a wash - while you may not be able to write off as much property tax, the tax relief elsewhere may offset that and then some. As you say the devil is in the details. |
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12-11-2017, 07:40 PM | #48 | |
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After a spending budget is passed by a town meeting or city council, only that approved $$ amount minus other expected revenues can be collected by property tax. (There is a minor "overlay" amount added to hedge for abatement's and deadbeats). If the net valuation (sum of all valuations) goes up then the tax rate goes down so that only the approved amount is collected. Individual assessments serve only to divide up the overall cost of running the town or city. It is you against your neighbors once the budget is approved. The focus on limiting property taxes needs to be on limiting the approved budgets. That involves things like getting involved and also voting. |
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12-12-2017, 05:51 PM | #49 |
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..... NH tax factoid
NH tax factoid:
1937 Did you know that in 1937, 80-years ago, the New Hampshire legislature came close to passing a 3% state income tax, and a 2% state sales tax, but it failed to pass the vote. May God bless our local property tax, and live free or die, buddy! Back in 1937, the legislative thinking was a property tax gets a lot of out-of-state folks who own vacation homes to help pay for local government.
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12-19-2017, 04:51 PM | #50 |
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A house up the street from me here in Alton, in the rural residential zone, was purchased in 2004 for $221k. It sold 11 years later for $250k, in 2015. Then it sold again approximately 18 mos later in 2017 for $274k.
Watching the real estate transactions weekly in the Baysider as well as Ray Sanborn's column in the Laconia Sun, I have been amazed by the sales over the last few years, and not only for waterfront property. Our street is about a half mile of the lake, and no lake view (think "view tax" 😉 . In the past years, my increases have mainly been in land value. This past year, the increases for land were minimal, but the value of my home went up substantially. Looking at this other house on my street, there is a minimal increase on the land, but a substantial increase on the house value. Also note, the assessment was done prior to the house sale (sold in November). We may not like it, but it seems that house values are increasing throughout oute area, and perhaps state-wide. Just a view from my little corner of the world... Dave Sent from my SM-T580 using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
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12-19-2017, 05:04 PM | #51 |
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FYI, if my math is correct 2004 to 2015 is 11 years not 21.😁
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12-19-2017, 05:20 PM | #52 |
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Yup, corrected. A case of FFF; fat freaking fingers! 😁
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12-21-2017, 08:17 PM | #53 |
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Waterfront taxes on the lakes are a real joke, (as if no one knows that already). The surrounding towns know that lake folks by in large do not vote as they are usually not year round. The Mcmansion folks aside, they can afford it, the old non winterized lake homes are disappearing rapidly. Those folks can't keep up with the taxes and then lack of a real voice as well.
Alton lake front taxes ranged from small reductions to over 35% increase in value in one year. This was for comparable properties as well, not old versus new or non winterized versus winterized. It will not be long before the lake edges will be the non involved ultra rich and the rest will be lower taxed hard working folks who can't even afford to be near the lakes. I believe this will hurt all of the surrounding towns a how they govern. |
12-22-2017, 11:38 PM | #54 | |
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Yup...
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12-23-2017, 06:04 AM | #55 | |
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12-23-2017, 06:47 AM | #56 |
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Perhaps an “Occupy Weirs Beach” event would attract attention to this crisis? Better bring some warm clothes!
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12-23-2017, 08:45 AM | #57 |
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Nothing new
I grew up in upstate New York over 50 years ago. There were towns and areas in those towns that were more "desirable" properties. The lots and houses were large and so were the valuations and associated property taxes. I'm sure that many that owned a good sized piece of land and maybe a small home in the expensive areas, bought cheap decades ago, sold off to a doctor or lawyer that cleared the land and built a big fancy house. The people that sold got out from under higher property tax, got a nice payment for the property, and built/bought a nice house in a more affordable area.
You could argue that these folks were "kicked out" of their property by rising values and associated taxes. You could also say they got a nice compensation that funded a comfortable retirement. The same thing happens in urban renewal where run down buildings are replaced by fancy, and expensive, condos. The previous residents in the area have NO HOPE of affording one of the condos. People have no "right" to occupy a piece of land. They can buy one and there are costs associated with it's upkeep, including taxes. If you can't afford the costs, you can't keep the property. In one form or another, that's been true for thousands of years. Notice that my example includes no "lake" because the presence of the lake here is almost coincidental. Yes, being on the lake accelerates the increase of valuation but the process itself happens continually all over the world. I sold my lake house to get out of the costs that would have been difficult to fund. In return, I have a VERY comfortable retirement. I have chosen to be happy in my circumstances. I valet my boat and enjoy the lake. I could be miserable because I was "forced" out of my lake house that I was entitled to but I just don't see it that way. |
12-23-2017, 02:10 PM | #58 |
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Assessments
Recently I have been scouring assessments in Laconia. Interesting that there are condos in the same complex, same square footage, essentially same view and the assessments vary. One would think they would basically be the same.
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12-23-2017, 03:30 PM | #59 |
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Condition and finishes can make a difference in market value. 1970's shag rug vs. newly finished hardwood floors, Formica vs granite counters, etc. I think this shows up on the tax card as features, or condition.
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