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Old 11-04-2022, 01:34 PM   #101
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As a federal court has ruled that homeless people have a RIGHT to sleep in public if the city has no designated area for them to sleep otherwise, might the same court not conclude that a kayaker on a public lake has a fundamental right to urinate at the next available locale when the need arises, if there is no public bathroom nearby?

If not, why not?

"The times, they are a-changing..."
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Old 11-04-2022, 05:50 PM   #102
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This is what happens when the summer people go away and we run out of things to discuss in this forum.
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Old 11-04-2022, 09:42 PM   #103
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Had they simply pulled up along the shore sat in the water and urinated... they would still be in the public lake.

It was accessing the private property, and the manner that they did so that created the stir.

The court could read the statute broadly and determine that the activity should be construed as a violation. But that requires the landowner to press charges, and testify.

For the small fine they would get, or even less should the court decide to place on file without finding, it really isn't worth the property owner's time regardless of the temptation.

Even signing is pain; but, at least it puts some teeth into the possible penalty outcome.

This time was lucky that those involved valued their reputation enough to at least have the civility to apologize after failing to use good judgement... unfortunately, that is not always the case. And to be honest, after enough incidents the apologies get a bit old.
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Old 11-04-2022, 09:45 PM   #104
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This is what happens when the summer people go away and we run out of things to discuss in this forum.
I'm sure there will be plenty of things in short order to discuss.
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Old 11-05-2022, 03:00 AM   #105
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Arrow "Summer People" Are Still under Surveillance...

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This is what happens when the summer people go away and we run out of things to discuss in this forum.
Does your neighbor's surveillance camera monitor your activities? Shouldn't permission be asked?

My Central Florida neighbor installed a six-foot fence, then installed a surveillance camera above it. It's ostensibly there to monitor his waterfront possessions; however, it is in plain view each time I open my door.

(We're good friends, his having moved here unaware of my move here thirty years earlier. We knew each other from the same building in a distant city! )

Should I be grateful for such surveillance, or has our society followed Britain into some form of Orwellian dystopia?

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Old 11-05-2022, 06:40 AM   #106
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Does your neighbor's surveillance camera monitor your activities? Shouldn't permission be asked?

My Central Florida neighbor installed a six-foot fence, then installed a surveillance camera above it. It's ostensibly there to monitor his waterfront possessions; however, it is in plain view each time I open my door.

(We're good friends, his having moved here unaware of my move here thirty years earlier. We knew each other from the same building in a distant city! )

Should I be grateful for such surveillance, or has our society followed Britain into some form of Orwellian dystopia?

Neighbor's camera pointed at your house is boorish and uncouth. People should know better.

IMO you should be grateful that technology exists to monitor your premises if you want to. How you use that technology is up to you, it's no one else's business, unless they infringe on you.

As far as the Orwellian dystopia, that ship has sailed. Drive through any city intersection, any toll both, or even down the highway and you will see cameras everywhere, all monitoring you, most connected to some central hub. This was all done relatively quietly, under the radar and in the name of safety. We are a surveillance state. There are police cars with cameras that run you license plate real time, pull up the owner's info on the fly with no justification. Bored police with out the cameras have terminals in their cars where they randomly type license plates fishing for a hit.

Pretty much anyone over 40 or 50 years old allowed this to happen. Not a good outcome from our generation. Do you feel safer?
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Old 11-05-2022, 07:38 AM   #107
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Yes. I do.

People claim they are carrying handguns for personal protection, but we have very little stranger-stranger physical crime... most of it is property-related, and those cameras help protect us from the unscrupulous actions of others.
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Old 11-05-2022, 07:54 AM   #108
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RSA 645:1-a Public Urination or Defecation. – A person is guilty of a violation if such person urinates or defecates in a public place, other than a public restroom, under circumstances where the person knew or should have known would likely cause affront or alarm to another.


New Hampshire Violations
The least serious offenses are called violations. A violation is an offense that is not a crime. The penalties for a violation include a fine and, in some cases, license suspension but no jail time will be imposed. Also, a violation conviction is not reported on your criminal record and will have no long term effects. Examples of violations are minor traffic offenses.

https://www.russmanlaw.com/new-hamps...fic%20offenses.

Apology!
Not meaning to participate in an extended thread (have unforetunately done so in the past).

Now the thread can migrate back to was the offense done in a public place or on private property.

Or maybe:
635: UNAUTHORIZED ENTRIES
Section: 635:2 Criminal Trespass.

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/...C-LXII-635.htm

or maybe, luckily nobody home ...
627: 7 JUSTIFICATION

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/...C-LXII-627.htm


Just thought I'd peek in. Will probably regret this post.Leaving now.

Last edited by longislander; 11-05-2022 at 08:03 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 11-05-2022, 08:06 AM   #109
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Yes. I do.

People claim they are carrying handguns for personal protection, but we have very little stranger-stranger physical crime... most of it is property-related, and those cameras help protect us from the unscrupulous actions of others.
The cameras in the intersections and highways?? How so?

Those cameras aren't there for personal protection. They are there for surveillance of the population. Their contribution to your safety is a hash above zero.


"Police, they arrive in minutes, when seconds count."
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Old 11-05-2022, 08:13 AM   #110
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Lots of insurance scams.
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Old 11-05-2022, 08:15 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by longislander View Post
RSA 645:1-a Public Urination or Defecation. – A person is guilty of a violation if such person urinates or defecates in a public place, other than a public restroom, under circumstances where the person knew or should have known would likely cause affront or alarm to another.


New Hampshire Violations
The least serious offenses are called violations. A violation is an offense that is not a crime. The penalties for a violation include a fine and, in some cases, license suspension but no jail time will be imposed. Also, a violation conviction is not reported on your criminal record and will have no long term effects. Examples of violations are minor traffic offenses.

https://www.russmanlaw.com/new-hamps...fic%20offenses.

Apology!
Not meaning to participate in an extended thread (have unforetunately done so in the past).

Now the thread can migrate back to was the offense done in a public place or on private property.

Or maybe:
635: UNAUTHORIZED ENTRIES
Section: 635:2 Criminal Trespass.

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/...C-LXII-635.htm

or maybe, luckily nobody home ...
627: 7 JUSTIFICATION

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/...C-LXII-627.htm


Just thought I'd peek in. Will probably regret this post.Leaving now.
None of those would count in this condition.
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Old 11-05-2022, 08:45 AM   #112
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The court ruled that homeless have this “right” on public property. Private property is another matter.
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Old 11-05-2022, 08:51 AM   #113
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NH is open access unless signed or ''gated'' in some format.
There may be some public property in the area that is signed against such activity... but I have never seen it.

This property is neither, and the kayaks could have just sat in the water near shore... just like the boaters floating around at the sand bars are urinating with no one noticing, but everyone knowing that it is happening.
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Old 11-05-2022, 09:00 AM   #114
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Quote:
None of those would count in this condition.
They all apply as ... law.
As in information only ... not opinion.

"Condition" is what?
"Situation" ... may be facts, if that is what is meant.

My condition is I've seen how this goes in this forum. I'm done with this thread. I can waste my time comtemplating my navel.

Bye now. Hope this thread goes on for days.

As predicted:
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Just thought I'd peek in. Will probably regret this post.Leaving now.
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Old 11-05-2022, 09:09 AM   #115
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As far as the Orwellian dystopia, that ship has sailed. Drive through any city intersection, any toll both, or even down the highway and you will see cameras everywhere, all monitoring you, most connected to some central hub. This was all done relatively quietly, under the radar and in the name of safety. We are a surveillance state. There are police cars with cameras that run you license plate real time, pull up the owner's info on the fly with no justification. Bored police with out the cameras have terminals in their cars where they randomly type license plates fishing for a hit.

Pretty much anyone over 40 or 50 years old allowed this to happen. Not a good outcome from our generation. Do you feel safer?
I have no problem if the police have the means to run license plates either manually or automatically. I am glad that the police randomly run plates. They can identify missing or wanted people and even stolen cars. Numerous people who have outstanding warrants for criminal offenses have been caught this way. The use of computers in police cars enables the police to take more criminals off the street.

It also enables a police officer to know who he is stopping and any criminal history that person may have, prior to approaching the vehicle. That information changes the way a vehicle is approached.

The cameras at intersections allow police to see traffic accidents and assess the situation a lot faster than a cruiser can get there. They may see the need for the fire department or ambulances and send them on their way before the first police officer arrives. They can even dispatch tow trucks immediately to minimize traffic delays.

If these methods keep police safe and allow and assist police to capture more criminals I am all for it. I couldn't care less if my plates get run 10 times a day. I am not doing anything wrong.

Last edited by TiltonBB; 11-06-2022 at 05:53 PM.
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Old 11-05-2022, 10:09 AM   #116
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I've held off on posting, but have read the thread. Interesting discussion.

Codeman, kudos to you for the way you handled it, great method and great outcome.

We kayak, we hike, we bike, and getting older guess what? I have to pee more often than I used to. I have never, would never, could never, go on someone's yard or even a tree next to the yard to relieve myself. There are ALWAYS options. I view it as total and complete disrespect for someone to do so. Off in the woods? Ok. The lake? Sure if you need to. Or pee in a bottle or other method like Sailin said.

Like I said interesting discussion of the law and police etc., but this is about RESPECT and REGARD for people and their property.
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Old 11-05-2022, 02:30 PM   #117
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So yesterday I was out kayaking on that beautiful day. The need for a pit stop arose. No bathroom in sight, of course. No place to land either! That happens more often than you would think. I pulled up to shore in a marshy area. Exited my kayak and sank into a good 12 inches of mud. Continued to sink, felt the mud trying to suck my mukluks off, gunk from the bottom is rising to the surface with an unholy stench. How far will I sink?! Thank God for the knee-high mukluks. Following the pit stop I use my paddle as a shovel and move bushels of mud and weeds to the side, hoping to hit firm bottom at some point. A miracle I was able to get back in the kayak without capsizing or being swallowed up by the mud.

Point of my post? None, really. Just thought I would share.
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Old 11-05-2022, 04:26 PM   #118
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So yesterday I was out kayaking on that beautiful day. The need for a pit stop arose. No bathroom in sight, of course. No place to land either! That happens more often than you would think. I pulled up to shore in a marshy area. Exited my kayak and sank into a good 12 inches of mud. Continued to sink, felt the mud trying to suck my mukluks off, gunk from the bottom is rising to the surface with an unholy stench. How far will I sink?! Thank God for the knee-high mukluks. Following the pit stop I use my paddle as a shovel and move bushels of mud and weeds to the side, hoping to hit firm bottom at some point. A miracle I was able to get back in the kayak without capsizing or being swallowed up by the mud.

Point of my post? None, really. Just thought I would share.
It would have been an interesting cause of death that could have been worked nicely into your obituary….
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Old 11-05-2022, 04:31 PM   #119
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So yesterday I was out kayaking on that beautiful day. The need for a pit stop arose. No bathroom in sight, of course. No place to land either! That happens more often than you would think. I pulled up to shore in a marshy area. Exited my kayak and sank into a good 12 inches of mud. Continued to sink, felt the mud trying to suck my mukluks off, gunk from the bottom is rising to the surface with an unholy stench. How far will I sink?! Thank God for the knee-high mukluks. Following the pit stop I use my paddle as a shovel and move bushels of mud and weeds to the side, hoping to hit firm bottom at some point. A miracle I was able to get back in the kayak without capsizing or being swallowed up by the mud.

Point of my post? None, really. Just thought I would share.
Were there any crawdads singing?

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Old 11-05-2022, 07:02 PM   #120
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Were there any crawdads singing?

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Did you read that book? I really enjoyed it. No crawdads singing yesterday. But the loons were acting really loony, skittering across the water, whooping it up. Maybe the weather made them think it was mating season again.
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Old 11-06-2022, 01:51 AM   #121
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I've held off on posting, but have read the thread. Interesting discussion.

Codeman, kudos to you for the way you handled it, great method and great outcome.

We kayak, we hike, we bike, and getting older guess what? I have to pee more often than I used to. I have never, would never, could never, go on someone's yard or even a tree next to the yard to relieve myself. There are ALWAYS options. I view it as total and complete disrespect for someone to do so. Off in the woods? Ok. The lake? Sure if you need to. Or pee in a bottle or other method like Sailin said.

Like I said interesting discussion of the law and police etc., but this is about RESPECT and REGARD for people and their property.
But as can be seen respect for property isn't a modern concept that is adhered to... and I suspect will get much worse going forward; especially around the lake as the density builds in.
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Old 11-06-2022, 04:39 AM   #122
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Did you read that book? I really enjoyed it. No crawdads singing yesterday. But the loons were acting really loony, skittering across the water, whooping it up. Maybe the weather made them think it was mating season again.
GREAT book. Glad you had a nice day on the water.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled broadcast...

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Old 11-06-2022, 06:04 AM   #123
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It's also a movie there are previews on YouTube looks good, I really enjoyed the book. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PY3808Iq0Tg
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Old 11-06-2022, 08:29 AM   #124
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Question Accustomed to Surveillance?

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Yes. I do. People claim they are carrying handguns for personal protection, but we have very little stranger-stranger physical crime... most of it is property-related, and those cameras help protect us from the unscrupulous actions of others.
Chatting with a friend, he suddenly pointed to the sky. I couldn't see it, but I could hear it.

You're being surveilled at Lake Winnipesaukee, from the sky, at your porch, at your dock, over your fence, and at traffic intersections.

So it's "all good"?

The UK--home of 1984--leads in "surveillance of the unscrupulous".
https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/c...light-cameras/
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Old 11-06-2022, 10:04 AM   #125
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It's also a movie there are previews on YouTube looks good, I really enjoyed the book. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PY3808Iq0Tg
Saw the movie recently, very much enjoyed it, haven't read the book.
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Old 11-06-2022, 10:21 AM   #126
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Chatting with a friend, he suddenly pointed to the sky. I couldn't see it, but I could hear it.

You're being surveilled at Lake Winnipesaukee, from the sky, at your porch, at your dock, over your fence, and at traffic intersections.

So it's "all good"?

The UK--home of 1984--leads in "surveillance of the unscrupulous".
https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/c...light-cameras/
We've done this by satellite for decades... how do you think Google Earth works?
The information is now available to the public in a delayed format; that is the only real change.
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Old 11-06-2022, 08:06 PM   #127
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Ah, that was tmi.
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Old 11-06-2022, 09:34 PM   #128
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It is the same reason that the detail is limited and things like your GPS are slightly off.
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Old 11-14-2022, 08:39 PM   #129
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Default Surveillance

Guy lived in London had a place on Governor's. Scheduled 30' boat delivery for a Saturday. Awning man didn't show up as he was supposed to. Left the boat. Owner had called from London before we got back to say get the boat off his dock until the awning man put the awning up.

Just assume you are always being watched and recorded no matter where you are or what you are doing, including game cams.
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Old 11-17-2022, 10:24 PM   #130
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Thumbs up Nobody's Safe...

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Guy lived in London had a place on Governor's. Scheduled 30' boat delivery for a Saturday. Awning man didn't show up as he was supposed to. Left the boat. Owner had called from London before we got back to say get the boat off his dock until the awning man put the awning up. Just assume you are always being watched and recorded no matter where you are or what you are doing, including game cams.
Today, masked crooks robbed a bank on Martha's Vineyard, stole a car, abandoned the car near woods, ran through the woods, and the three were photographed by game cameras.
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Old 11-18-2022, 04:38 AM   #131
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Today, masked crooks robbed a bank on Martha's Vineyard, stole a car, abandoned the car near woods, ran through the woods, and the three were photographed by game cameras.
Is is still muzzle loader season on bank robbers, or rifle season now?
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