Weirs Drive In Nears the End

[John Mercier]

Not exactly how it works.

The buyer, should they need an excavation permit or some other change to the area, has to allow for the dig.

But they don't pay for it.

The State (mostly through grants) pays for the dig usually with ''volunteer'' labor from UNH.

[Riviera]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Not exactly how it works.

The buyer, should they need an excavation permit or some other change to the area, has to allow for the dig.

But they don't pay for it.

The State (mostly through grants) pays for the dig usually with ''volunteer'' labor from UNH.

That’s not accurate.

The land under the Weirs Drive In (as well as other adjacent land in the area) is listed on the National Register of Historic places. The Register itself does not have regulatory authority. However, there is a defacto means in which the State Office of Historical Preservation gets control of development properties, and the State can (and will) require the developer to perform preservation and/or mitigating procedures in recognition of any property the is listed on the Register, or even qualifies for the Register.

Any time a property is disturbed in excess of one acre, a federal EPA Stormwater General Permit is required. Generally, this permit is granted by default through the submission of an application. However, that permit application requires the applicant to review and certify that there are no historical properties of significance impacted by the development. If there are, the State is granted authority through the Federal Section 106 Historical Preservation Act, to intervene, and comment on the historical impacts of development. The State has a relatively unmitigated and undefined level of authority to review each case as they deem appropriate. Generally speaking, the EPA stormwater permit won’t be issued until the State has written a statement that the historic issues have been investigated, preserved, or other mitigation has been provided to the State’s satisfaction. There is an appeal process to the National Parks Service, but that is very time consuming, and not likely tp prevail. It is 100% the responsibility and expense of the developer to satisfy the whims of the State Office of Historical Preservation.

Typically, the historical significance is a building, or is something that is visible above the ground. In that instance, it is easier to establish what exists, and how it might be restored, relocated, documented, and/or mitigated. In the case of properties around the Weirs, the level of historic significance can’t be established without digging in the ground. Once you start digging, you have no idea what level of artifacts might be encountered, both in terms of quality and quantity. If the developer is lucky, they might be able to obtain a grant or 3rd party assistance to mitigate with the costs of the investigation/preservation, but that’s difficult to get, because even the 3rd party has no idea the scope of what might be required. UNH doesn’t just step in with an open checkbook, and say “we got your back”.

The unknown time, expense, and complexity of investigation, preservation, or mitigation, makes it nearly impossible to establish a sales agreement contingency that is satisfactory to both the buyer and the seller. Further, not many buyers want to start investigating something with an undefined end point, both in terms of time and money.

It’s a tough situation for the property owner. They would probably be best served by trying to establish the limits of what would be required to get State to sign off, but that in and of itself is a time consuming and expensive endeavor. I concur that it seems unfair, but the property is listed on the National Register, so it is what it is. It’s going to take somebody with a high tolerance for risk to undertake a development of that property.

[John Mercier]

UNH doesn't do the grants.
The grants would be from private entities.

Al was going to have UNH do it...
They have grants to cover digs of this nature.
But they couldn't commit to a limited timeline for the completion.

[TheTimeTraveler]

I would think if the land were priced at a million dollars you'd have a long line of buyers lining up to buy and develop that land.

As things stand now, the existing owner will continue paying taxes on it while it sits unsold until she dies, and she'll never enjoy the financial benefits of it.

Maybe she can somehow work a deal with UNH to go in there and let them do their own excavating while she still owns it (i.e. prior to sale).

[John Mercier]

Now that it isn't going to be operate she could.
It was being operated to cover the costs of things like the property taxes.

According to the people that know the history of the site... it has had quite a bit of fill added over the years... so it could be quite a long time line.

Another buyer might have something in mind that would fit the site without needing to ''disturb'' the site. Whether that is a continuation of the Drive-in or some sort of open air flea market/farmer's market, etc... I don't know.

But for condos or such (Al has a preference for storage units and commercial rentals)... it would require the conditions be met.

I think she will find a buyer, but I don't think it will ever be condos or such.

[8gv]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Now that it isn't going to be operate she could.
It was being operated to cover the costs of things like the property taxes.

According to the people that know the history of the site... it has had quite a bit of fill added over the years... so it could be quite a long time line.

Another buyer might have something in mind that would fit the site without needing to ''disturb'' the site. Whether that is a continuation of the Drive-in or some sort of open air flea market/farmer's market, etc... I don't know.

But for condos or such (Al has a preference for storage units and commercial rentals)... it would require the conditions be met.

I think she will find a buyer, but I don't think it will ever be condos or such.

A farmer's market or flea market will not cash flow an investment of this amount.

Pick your price... $4.9? $2.5? $1.0? and then add in whatever costs to prepare the new venture.

Yay! You are now ready for operating costs!

I think it only works as condos and certainly not at the price she wants now.

I agree with the post above that suggested that she get the dig going now.

Otherwise, sell it for a much lower price.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by 8gv

A farmer's market or flea market will not cash flow an investment of this amount.

Pick your price... $4.9? $2.5? $1.0? and then add in whatever costs to prepare the new venture.

Yay! You are now ready for operating costs!

I think it only works as condos and certainly not at the price she wants now.

I agree with the post above that suggested that she get the dig going now.

Otherwise, sell it for a much lower price.

Her age creates a timeline issue.
The timeline issue on the property is the largest reason for lower value.
With that being an unknown... it is really hard to determine the amount of property tax and what a new venture would expense or generate.

As is... the property value would need to be much lower.
Unlike a perpetual entity, like the State or city, picking up any extraneous unknown costs, questionable properties generally sell for much less than anticipated.

The highest use from a purchase price would be something that does not trigger permitting requirements.

[Descant]

Considering all the development that has occurred along the shore in the last 250 years without these issues, it seems ironic and unfair that the Weirs Drive-In alone should be subject to such scrutiny. I don't see that the drive in is any more likely to have been an Indian village than the land occupied by the NH Veterans Association.