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Old 07-23-2018, 06:44 PM   #1
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Default Open Note to Another Captain

Hi Captain, We met near Ambrose Cove on Saturday afternoon as we were both headed towards Green's Basin. It sure was crowded out there and I thought as a newer boater you might appreciate some words of encouragement from another captain. I say Captain because both of us have responsibility for our vessels and those aboard as the guys at the controls. It is a serious responsibility and the boating safety course is really only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to keeping ourselves and passengers safe.

I was the guy in front of you who was approaching the crossing traffic and several boats that had slowed to idle to allow safe passage for everyone in the narrow section between the rocks on both sides. You probably remember since there were seven or eight boats caught in an area too small to allow safe passage at speed. You were following me very closely (well under the 150 feet law) and probably did not understand your responsibility under the circumstances.

It is really easy to find your vessel closing fast on the vessel ahead when it slows if you are not paying *very* close attention. I'm sure this is why you were bearing down on my stern at 20+ mph until you heard me screaming. I made at least one similar mistake when I was a new boater although I was never close enough to rely on the forward vessel's captain's shout to realize the situation.

I understand your response to my shouts, indicating that I was at fault for throwing on my brakes. Since you are likely new to the role of Captain, I thought it would make sense to clarify that boats do not have brakes. The closest similarity might be throwing the vessel into reverse, but even if that had been the case (it was not) it remains the following vessel's responsibility to maintain safe distance (and in NH, to maintain 150 feet or operate at idle). I'm sure there are well versed members of the forum that can quote the specific rules.

My point in raising this is to encourage you to take responsibility for safe passage and err on the side of safety when uncertain about what lies ahead. This was an unreasonably close call and no captain should rely on the shouts of another vessel to realize they are at risk of imminent collision. If you are not sufficiently cautious about your own safety, think of the family members you appeared to have on your boat. They are relying on your judgement and as a new boater you have to feel the gravity of that responsibility.

My son is convinced you were embarrassed by your mistake despite your shouted excuses. Watching you steam ahead far too close to other vessels after the incident did not convince me this was true, but I am going to hope that on reflection you realized how your entire life could have changed in no more than 1-2 seconds more time. Colliding with my boat from the rear could have changed your life in a profound and irreversible way.

I did make note of your destination and assume it is your home. I am not planning to take further action to encourage your growth as a captain, but I will be watching for you and keeping a wide berth. I hope I will not regret finding a more definitive way to ensure you take your responsibility seriously in the future. I do not want to be even indirectly responsible for you causing an accident with similar actions.

Stay safe.
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Old 07-23-2018, 06:53 PM   #2
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Wow, well done! I don’t think I would be as calm as you.


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Old 07-23-2018, 07:02 PM   #3
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You definitely get an A for effort!

Well said!!

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Old 07-23-2018, 07:19 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beauport View Post
Hi Captain, We met near Ambrose Cove on Saturday afternoon as we were both headed towards Green's Basin. It sure was crowded out there and I thought as a newer boater you might appreciate some words of encouragement from another captain. I say Captain because both of us have responsibility for our vessels and those aboard as the guys at the controls. It is a serious responsibility and the boating safety course is really only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to keeping ourselves and passengers safe.

I was the guy in front of you who was approaching the crossing traffic and several boats that had slowed to idle to allow safe passage for everyone in the narrow section between the rocks on both sides. You probably remember since there were seven or eight boats caught in an area too small to allow safe passage at speed. You were following me very closely (well under the 150 feet law) and probably did not understand your responsibility under the circumstances.

It is really easy to find your vessel closing fast on the vessel ahead when it slows if you are not paying *very* close attention. I'm sure this is why you were bearing down on my stern at 20+ mph until you heard me screaming. I made at least one similar mistake when I was a new boater although I was never close enough to rely on the forward vessel's captain's shout to realize the situation.

I understand your response to my shouts, indicating that I was at fault for throwing on my brakes. Since you are likely new to the role of Captain, I thought it would make sense to clarify that boats do not have brakes. The closest similarity might be throwing the vessel into reverse, but even if that had been the case (it was not) it remains the following vessel's responsibility to maintain safe distance (and in NH, to maintain 150 feet or operate at idle). I'm sure there are well versed members of the forum that can quote the specific rules.

My point in raising this is to encourage you to take responsibility for safe passage and err on the side of safety when uncertain about what lies ahead. This was an unreasonably close call and no captain should rely on the shouts of another vessel to realize they are at risk of imminent collision. If you are not sufficiently cautious about your own safety, think of the family members you appeared to have on your boat. They are relying on your judgement and as a new boater you have to feel the gravity of that responsibility.

My son is convinced you were embarrassed by your mistake despite your shouted excuses. Watching you steam ahead far too close to other vessels after the incident did not convince me this was true, but I am going to hope that on reflection you realized how your entire life could have changed in no more than 1-2 seconds more time. Colliding with my boat from the rear could have changed your life in a profound and irreversible way.

I did make note of your destination and assume it is your home. I am not planning to take further action to encourage your growth as a captain, but I will be watching for you and keeping a wide berth. I hope I will not regret finding a more definitive way to ensure you take your responsibility seriously in the future. I do not want to be even indirectly responsible for you causing an accident with similar actions.

Stay safe.


THIS is how it is done!

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Old 07-23-2018, 09:12 PM   #5
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Solid night time reading and much better read than just complaining about a "captain bonehead". Well played Beauport.

I'm in this area and although I uncovered the boat Saturday, I never left the dock. Needless to say, I'm curious to who the "Captain" is.........
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Old 07-24-2018, 06:45 AM   #6
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Solid night time reading and much better read than just complaining about a "captain bonehead". Well played Beauport.

I'm in this area and although I uncovered the boat Saturday, I never left the dock. Needless to say, I'm curious to who the "Captain" is.........
Yes, done nicely with some class.

But, it doesn't really matter who "this one" is. There are hundreds more Captains on the lake that it could be.
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Old 07-24-2018, 06:57 AM   #7
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To those who find it difficult to determine what 150 feet looks like when on the open water, it is half the distance between the goal lines of a football field. Another good reference, the official width of a football field is 160 feet. Fifty yards is 150 feet. If you are within that distance of another craft, swimmer or shore line, I believe headway speed is the rule. I also believe the official length of a water ski tow line is 75 feet, so twice that distance. I think this applies to jet skis as well. From my observation, many watercraft operators don't have a clue.

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Old 07-24-2018, 08:12 AM   #8
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It never hurts to slow to headway speed when confronted with puzzling right of way decisions.
Well stated Captain.
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Old 07-24-2018, 09:17 AM   #9
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Default My recent harrowing experience...

I was sharing the "no wake" zone between Governor's and Eagle Islands with about 6 other boats. It was early afternoon. I was headed toward The Weirs when I noticed a boat coming at me at close to full speed. I assumed when he hit the NWZ he would slow. He didn't and kept coming right at me. His heading was North/East. I had to give it full-throttle and take defensive evasive action. I got out of his way just as his boat passed right over the spot I had been in. Never slowed down. Never looked at me (wish he had as well as his female companions.) I literally stopped and sat shaking for several minutes. I thought of radioing MP and following the perp., but I was so shaken I couldn't. I've been boating on this Lake since 1961 and that was the closest I've come to being involved in something very serious.
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Old 07-24-2018, 09:34 AM   #10
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I was sharing the "no wake" zone between Governor's and Eagle Islands with about 6 other boats. It was early afternoon. I was headed toward The Weirs when I noticed a boat coming at me at close to full speed. I assumed when he hit the NWZ he would slow. He didn't and kept coming right at me. His heading was North/East. I had to give it full-throttle and take defensive evasive action. I got out of his way just as his boat passed right over the spot I had been in. Never slowed down. Never looked at me (wish he had as well as his female companions.) I literally stopped and sat shaking for several minutes. I thought of radioing MP and following the perp., but I was so shaken I couldn't. I've been boating on this Lake since 1961 and that was the closest I've come to being involved in something very serious.
Let me take a wild guess …. it was a yellow on white boat with a 603 phone # printed about mid ship in the yellow ??
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Old 07-24-2018, 10:11 AM   #11
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Let me take a wild guess …. it was a yellow on white boat with a 603 phone # printed about mid ship in the yellow ??
May have been yellow on white, approx. 24', I/O. Didn't notice a phone #, but then again, I didn't notice much. I was scrambling to get out of the way and not hit other boats. Had he taken a last second maneuver, and guessed wrong, he may have steered in the direction I was taking evasively. I think there was one male and two females in mid-fifties? But again, I didn't notice much. It was mid-week, I try to not be on The Lake during the weekends. It really does get kinda nuts out there.

When my family first started coming to Winni (late 50's early 60's), seeing a boat go by was rare enough to make me and my siblings run to the shore's edge to watch it. When we got our first wooden row boat, we'd just leave it in the water and tie it to a tree when we would head home. Boats back then didn't create the surge they do today. Those were the days when one Forum member told me they used to water ski through Sallies Gut!!!
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Old 07-24-2018, 10:21 AM   #12
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I was sharing the "no wake" zone between Governor's and Eagle Islands with about 6 other boats. It was early afternoon. I was headed toward The Weirs when I noticed a boat coming at me at close to full speed. I assumed when he hit the NWZ he would slow. He didn't and kept coming right at me. His heading was North/East. I had to give it full-throttle and take defensive evasive action. I got out of his way just as his boat passed right over the spot I had been in. Never slowed down. Never looked at me (wish he had as well as his female companions.) I literally stopped and sat shaking for several minutes. I thought of radioing MP and following the perp., but I was so shaken I couldn't. I've been boating on this Lake since 1961 and that was the closest I've come to being involved in something very serious.
It reminds me of this frightening video:

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Old 07-24-2018, 11:33 AM   #13
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An incredible video! Frightening...
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Old 07-24-2018, 12:05 PM   #14
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A number of years ago my wife and I were outside of Long Island w/friends doing a leisurely house watching cruise. I look behind and see a boat bow high and fast approaching my stern. I burned out my horn (electric two trumpet) and went hoarse yelling. I had to wait to the last minute and make a full throttle maneuver to get out of the way because I was afraid he might make a quick avoidance maneuver into me. Big bow rider with 4 older adults blows by without any recognition. He went into Jonathan’s Landing and it took a lot of persuasion from my wife for me not to follow him in and beat the crap out of him (I was 20+ years younger then. Good thing that came out of it is I spend a lot more time looking behind me now. So, I guess things really don’t change.


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Old 07-24-2018, 12:28 PM   #15
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I was sharing the "no wake" zone between Governor's and Eagle Islands with about 6 other boats. It was early afternoon. I was headed toward The Weirs when I noticed a boat coming at me at close to full speed. I assumed when he hit the NWZ he would slow. He didn't and kept coming right at me. His heading was North/East. I had to give it full-throttle and take defensive evasive action. I got out of his way just as his boat passed right over the spot I had been in. Never slowed down. Never looked at me (wish he had as well as his female companions.) I literally stopped and sat shaking for several minutes. I thought of radioing MP and following the perp., but I was so shaken I couldn't. I've been boating on this Lake since 1961 and that was the closest I've come to being involved in something very serious.
We've seen boats going through there ignoring the NWZ as well...so far no harrowing near misses like you had but nevertheless, unsettling.
I shake my head all day long out there.
Last week someone on the east shore of the channel (little cabins area) yelled at a boat operator as he was throwing quite a wake right there in the channel. The boat operator (I refuse to call them captains) looked at the guy yelling and kept going his blissful way without slowing down.
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Old 07-24-2018, 01:06 PM   #16
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Over the weekend, I saw at least 4 pontoon boats with their "headlights" (aka docking lights) on while underway. Just another indication of the clueless MO-RONS behind the wheel out there. If you ain't operating in total defensive mode, then you have a death wish!
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Old 07-24-2018, 01:36 PM   #17
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Default I recently watched the MP...

Using binoculars from a distance monitoring the rafters near Stonedam. They then went in among them and I lost sight of what they did for the approx. 10 minutes they were there. This was around the time of "dry water", DWI enforcement! So, you may not see them, but they may be watching you!
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Old 07-24-2018, 02:10 PM   #18
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Over the weekend, I saw at least 4 pontoon boats with their "headlights" (aka docking lights) on while underway. Just another indication of the clueless MO-RONS behind the wheel out there.
Although I do not have a pontoon boat -- I would cut the "Docking Lights" syndrome a little slack.

I can visualize (and done myself) knocked a rocker switch on the dash and didn't realize it...... it could have been my Nav's, docking lights or Bilge - all are in a prone area. Although the rockers lights up, I defy anyone to see that in the sunlight.

NOW - I do have an issue when anyone who uses Docking lights as a set of "headlights" at night ….. in that scenario, there is no excuse.

Point being -- save your MO-RONS for the deserved.

.
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Old 07-24-2018, 02:49 PM   #19
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Although I do not have a pontoon boat -- I would cut the "Docking Lights" syndrome a little slack.

I can visualize (and done myself) knocked a rocker switch on the dash and didn't realize it...... it could have been my Nav's, docking lights or Bilge - all are in a prone area. Although the rockers lights up, I defy anyone to see that in the sunlight.

NOW - I do have an issue when anyone who uses Docking lights as a set of "headlights" at night ….. in that scenario, there is no excuse.

Point being -- save your MO-RONS for the deserved.

.
I'd bet they were operating at night. I've seen that often too. Every time I have witnessed anyone running at night with docking lights on like headlights, it was a pontoon boat.
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Old 07-24-2018, 03:02 PM   #20
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Although I do not have a pontoon boat -- I would cut the "Docking Lights" syndrome a little slack.

I can visualize (and done myself) knocked a rocker switch on the dash and didn't realize it...... it could have been my Nav's, docking lights or Bilge - all are in a prone area. Although the rockers lights up, I defy anyone to see that in the sunlight.

NOW - I do have an issue when anyone who uses Docking lights as a set of "headlights" at night ….. in that scenario, there is no excuse.

Point being -- save your MO-RONS for the deserved.

.
So how do we determine who is deserved and who isn't? It's the responsibility of the boat operator to be aware of the condition of his vessel at all times (especially at night). The events that I saw were either late dusk or at night - not during the day. So I have a hard time believing that the operator didn't see the rocker switch lit up.
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Old 07-24-2018, 04:02 PM   #21
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Over the weekend, I saw at least 4 pontoon boats with their "headlights" (aka docking lights) on while underway. Just another indication of the clueless MO-RONS behind the wheel out there. If you ain't operating in total defensive mode, then you have a death wish!
With this coincidence, Is it possible there's a make/model where the nav lights switch also turn on the docking lights? Like the old two position switches that you pulled out half way for anchor and all the way for all nav lights?
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Old 07-24-2018, 05:50 PM   #22
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With this coincidence, Is it possible there's a make/model where the nav lights switch also turn on the docking lights? Like the old two position switches that you pulled out half way for anchor and all the way for all nav lights?
That’s actually a great question! This happened to me when I first got my Bennington pontoon...Going into Glendale from Welch at night. Turn my nav lights on at Welch and do a light check and all is good. On the way in I noticed there was an interior light on on the side of the helm. Not being totally familiar with the switches I start turning rocker switches on and off until the interior light shuts. Yup, you guessed it, interior light is on same switch as nav lights! The helm light is a touch light and your supposed to push it to shut it off but the Nav rocker switch also shuts it. Pretty ridiculous to have it wired this way! Yes, I was pulled over and rightfully ticketed by Marine Patrol. Talk about feeling stupid but it happens to the best of us!

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Old 07-24-2018, 06:25 PM   #23
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With this coincidence, Is it possible there's a make/model where the nav lights switch also turn on the docking lights? Like the old two position switches that you pulled out half way for anchor and all the way for all nav lights?
Of course anything is possible, but I suspect that the use of these docking lights as headlights is intentional.
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Old 07-24-2018, 06:47 PM   #24
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I was sharing the "no wake" zone between Governor's and Eagle Islands with about 6 other boats. It was early afternoon. I was headed toward The Weirs when I noticed a boat coming at me at close to full speed. I assumed when he hit the NWZ he would slow. He didn't and kept coming right at me. His heading was North/East. I had to give it full-throttle and take defensive evasive action. I got out of his way just as his boat passed right over the spot I had been in. Never slowed down. Never looked at me (wish he had as well as his female companions.) I literally stopped and sat shaking for several minutes. I thought of radioing MP and following the perp., but I was so shaken I couldn't. I've been boating on this Lake since 1961 and that was the closest I've come to being involved in something very serious.
I realize that I will probably get beat up for this, but, if you have only had 1 "serious" close call since 1961, I don't think that's too bad. I think you're doing pretty good. It certainly doesn't make the lake dangerous if you have 1 close call every 57yrs. Life is a risk, and we all know there are stupid people out there, so If you are going to participate in ANYTHING that has the possibility of being dangerous, then don't be surprised when it is. Expect close calls and (hopefully) you will be aware to avoid them if, and when they arise. It's just the responsible thing to do. I've owned a boat (and motorcycle) since 1987 and have never had any serious close calls yet. Just dumb luck?? Who knows??? I just pay close attention to my surroundings, relax and enjoy!! However, I've had my share of close calls on a snowmobile though, mostly my own fault, but have been lucky to dodge any serious injury/damage so far, and can't wait for the next ride!!! lol A dangerous world is an exciting world, a safe world is boring. IMHO The boat crash on the Columbia river video is some exciting stuff...!!! (Maybe a little too exciting!!) That was a really stupid person that should have been locked up for a few for that one! I would love to know if alcohol, or just plain not paying attention (stupidity), was involved. Not sure which would be worse, both worth serving some time though.

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Old 07-24-2018, 07:55 PM   #25
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Of course anything is possible, but I suspect that the use of these docking lights as headlights is intentional.
I'm going to agree with Little Bear. I've seen one pontoon in particular making the run up the Six Pack and heading in the direction of Harilla Landing (and then coming back) many times. They're using them like headlights.

I commend the OP for handling such a stressful situation so professionally, not sure I would have been able to and very glad I was not in that situation with a boat full of passengers. If I have one issue with the 150 foot rule it's that in slowing to headway speed we're assuming that the other operators have seen and understood the situation. If they haven't, we've lost the maneuverability edge that speed can provide.
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Old 07-24-2018, 09:15 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by ursa minor View Post
I'm going to agree with Little Bear. I've seen one pontoon in particular making the run up the Six Pack and heading in the direction of Harilla Landing (and then coming back) many times. They're using them like headlights.

I commend the OP for handling such a stressful situation so professionally, not sure I would have been able to and very glad I was not in that situation with a boat full of passengers. If I have one issue with the 150 foot rule it's that in slowing to headway speed we're assuming that the other operators have seen and understood the situation. If they haven't, we've lost the maneuverability edge that speed can provide.
Perhaps that is why no other jurisdiction has adopted such a rule? Certainly "good" laws get copied often. Not to open old wounds, but experience has shown that our speed limit has not changed safety statistics. It has reduced noise, which may have been the real agenda. I think our safety statistics are comparable to all other jurisdictions which do not have the 150 ft rule, boat to boat..

I was always taught to look behind me to see what size my wake was and what impact it had on smaller boats. I applaud the OP for watching his "six" and paying attention 360 degrees. Too many watch only, or focus on, the starboard forward quadrant.
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Old 07-24-2018, 09:26 PM   #27
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That’s actually a great question! This happened to me when I first got my Bennington pontoon...Going into Glendale from Welch at night. Turn my nav lights on at Welch and do a light check and all is good. On the way in I noticed there was an interior light on on the side of the helm. Not being totally familiar with the switches I start turning rocker switches on and off until the interior light shuts. Yup, you guessed it, interior light is on same switch as nav lights! The helm light is a touch light and your supposed to push it to shut it off but the Nav rocker switch also shuts it. Pretty ridiculous to have it wired this way! Yes, I was pulled over and rightfully ticketed by Marine Patrol. Talk about feeling stupid but it happens to the best of us!

There are those that have and those that will!

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Interesting. I thought I was shooting in the dark, if not very dim light. I trust you sent the info to the Mfg and they reimbursed the ticket (LOL). At the very least, the dealer should have fixed it and sent info to mfg to issue a TSB to all dealers and owners, same as with automobile recalls. I understand a dealer cannot launch a boat that has improper head/holding tanks. Maybe they need to check lights too? I don't think inspections like we do with cars is practical, but it does appear there are some issues that should be resolved one way or another. I'd rather do somethging voluntary than law.

Do we have any Power Squadron or USCG Auxiliary inspectors out there? Do you check such things?
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Old 07-25-2018, 06:59 AM   #28
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Question 'Good Thing I've Got a Sail...Right?

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It reminds me of this frightening video:
Was it only last year that I posted a "still-frame" from that crash?

Responses were similar:

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"What fishermen have video-cameras running on their boats?"
Quote:
Fake!
'Guess we found out today.


Every day there's wind and sun...I see the same picture...

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Old 07-25-2018, 07:11 AM   #29
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Was it only last year that I posted a "still-frame" from that crash?

Every day there's wind and sun...I see the same picture...

>
What is so about that picture? The 2 boats are pretty far apart, not to mention the fact that the boat on the right is pretty far behind the boat on the left. That picture is obviously taken from quite a distance, therefore it is very difficult to judge the distance between them accurately.
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Old 07-25-2018, 07:51 AM   #30
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Default Appreciate your philosophy...However...

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I realize that I will probably get beat up for this, but, if you have only had 1 "serious" close call since 1961, I don't think that's too bad. I think you're doing pretty good. It certainly doesn't make the lake dangerous if you have 1 close call every 57yrs. Life is a risk, and we all know there are stupid people out there, so If you are going to participate in ANYTHING that has the possibility of being dangerous, then don't be surprised when it is. Expect close calls and (hopefully) you will be aware to avoid them if, and when they arise. It's just the responsible thing to do. I've owned a boat (and motorcycle) since 1987 and have never had any serious close calls yet. Just dumb luck?? Who knows??? I just pay close attention to my surroundings, relax and enjoy!! However, I've had my share of close calls on a snowmobile though, mostly my own fault, but have been lucky to dodge any serious injury/damage so far, and can't wait for the next ride!!! lol A dangerous world is an exciting world, a safe world is boring. IMHO The boat crash on the Columbia river video is some exciting stuff...!!! (Maybe a little too exciting!!) That was a really stupid person that should have been locked up for a few for that one! I would love to know if alcohol, or just plain not paying attention (stupidity), was involved. Not sure which would be worse, both worth serving some time though.
I don't mind, and enjoy living "on the edge", at times. However, it only takes one incident in 57 years of living to end it. Dying by my own actions is one thing, dying as a bi-product of someone else's incompetence and stupidity, well, that's something I couldn't live with!!!
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Old 07-25-2018, 09:18 AM   #31
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I don't mind, and enjoy living "on the edge", at times. However, it only takes one incident in 57 years of living to end it. Dying by my own actions is one thing, dying as a bi-product of someone else's incompetence and stupidity, well, that's something I couldn't live with!!!
Literally!
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Old 07-25-2018, 09:31 AM   #32
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What is so about that picture? The 2 boats are pretty far apart, not to mention the fact that the boat on the right is pretty far behind the boat on the left. That picture is obviously taken from quite a distance, therefore it is very difficult to judge the distance between them accurately.


Perhaps it’s the fact that both boats are headed directly toward the photographer and the boat operator has to jockey with two boats.


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Old 07-25-2018, 09:51 AM   #33
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What is so about that picture? The 2 boats are pretty far apart, not to mention the fact that the boat on the right is pretty far behind the boat on the left. That picture is obviously taken from quite a distance, therefore it is very difficult to judge the distance between them accurately.
Was that picture taken in 1973?
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Old 07-25-2018, 10:25 AM   #34
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Was that picture taken in 1973?
It looks it, doesn't it? And probably taken by someone sitting on a dock!
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Old 07-25-2018, 11:01 AM   #35
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Every day there's wind and sun...I see the same picture...

>
Were you moving or stationary when you took that photo?
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Old 07-26-2018, 06:55 AM   #36
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Arrow The Lake Is NOT I-95...

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Was that picture taken in 1973?
The camera was a 1980 Nikon E, but leaked light, and the lens was loose. An antique GE digital camera took the attached image below.

I was very late getting into digital cameras, but have five non-working digital cameras but still have three Nikon E "working" cameras, still loaded with color-print, color-slide, and B&W. I'm not risking my two 2¼"x2¼" cameras on Winnipesaukee; however, there's a $185 Hasselblad at eBay!

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Were you moving or stationary when you took that photo?
It's a sailboat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chipj29 View Post
What is so about that picture? The 2 boats are pretty far apart, not to mention the fact that the boat on the right is pretty far behind the boat on the left. That picture is obviously taken from quite a distance, therefore it is very difficult to judge the distance between them accurately.
You've made my point: the speedboat operators are zoned-out in "I-95 mode".

You don't wait until there's a 150-feet separation between boats before adjusting for your destination.

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Old 07-26-2018, 07:22 AM   #37
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I remember a few years ago, I nearly hit a swimmer. Scared the heck out me. I had some family members up and took them out for a nice ride. I was coming out of the Moultonborough Bay though the barber pole, it was kind of flat light type of day with chop. Anyway a swimmer was right out in the channel just before you get the two black/reds before the Jetti. The guy was swimming underwater and popped his head right out in front of me. No bright colored swimwear, nothing that would stick out. I had to take some seriously evasive type of action. Scared the CrAAP out of me and everyone else on the boat. Looked back at the guy and he just kept plugging along like it was nothing, diving bac under water. If I had looked away for a second, and not seen him, I probably would have killed him. I have 23ft boat and that sucker is heavy. The weight of it would have killed him never mind what the outdrive would have done. Always have to keep your head on a swivel out there not just for boats but, also for people swimming in the middle of an active boat lanes!
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Old 07-26-2018, 07:31 AM   #38
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It's a sailboat.

Unless you are both on the same heading (or 180 degrees off), that boat is headed toward a spot that you will have vacated by the time it arrives. It's a common and smart technique to turn directly toward the stand-on boat in a crossing situation, then hold that heading. The stand-on boat is obligated to maintain course and speed, so its bearing, relative to the give-way boat, will change and there will be no collision course. When you see a give-way boat change direction and head directly at you at a distance like that, it's usually a sign that the operator is smart and wants you to know they see you, they are not trying to intimidate you.
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Old 07-26-2018, 07:54 AM   #39
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Default Sailboat operators are always careful

APS, I'm glad that sailboat operators never make bad decisions while operating their vessels. Enjoy!

https://youtu.be/x8-vfMqMLAM

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Old 07-26-2018, 08:04 AM   #40
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Unless you are both on the same heading (or 180 degrees off), that boat is headed toward a spot that you will have vacated by the time it arrives. It's a common and smart technique to turn directly toward the stand-on boat in a crossing situation, then hold that heading. The stand-on boat is obligated to maintain course and speed, so its bearing, relative to the give-way boat, will change and there will be no collision course. When you see a give-way boat change direction and head directly at you at a distance like that, it's usually a sign that the operator is smart and wants you to know they see you, they are not trying to intimidate you.
That's pretty good. But I caution that sailboat speeds on the lake are highly variable, going up and down even more quickly than the breeze itself as the boat's position relative to islands, points, etc can change speed and direction of the wind. Further, sailboats change direction ("tack") more frequently than many powerboat captains realize in order to compensate for these wind changes and other navigational requirements. And of course, many sailboat pilots often have a blind spot when their sails obstruct their view of your power boat.

None of this is to suggest that sailors do not have right of way/stand on obligations, only to point out that the reason they usually have right of way is that they have a significantly tougher time navigating than a non sailor might think. So they should not be expected to be as easy to predict as a power boat.
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Old 07-26-2018, 09:23 AM   #41
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Default Same thing in air traffic control

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Unless you are both on the same heading (or 180 degrees off), that boat is headed toward a spot that you will have vacated by the time it arrives. It's a common and smart technique to turn directly toward the stand-on boat in a crossing situation, then hold that heading. The stand-on boat is obligated to maintain course and speed, so its bearing, relative to the give-way boat, will change and there will be no collision course. When you see a give-way boat change direction and head directly at you at a distance like that, it's usually a sign that the operator is smart and wants you to know they see you, they are not trying to intimidate you.
In a radar environment, when controlling aircraft on crossing courses, we commonly would "aim" one aircraft at the crossing aircraft's current position or just behind it. Of course the relative speeds of the aircraft involved must be considered.

I do the same thing on the lake, checking first to make sure no one is coming up on me from astern.
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Old 07-26-2018, 09:28 AM   #42
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That's pretty good. But I caution that sailboat speeds on the lake are highly variable, going up and down even more quickly than the breeze itself as the boat's position relative to islands, points, etc can change speed and direction of the wind. Further, sailboats change direction ("tack") more frequently than many powerboat captains realize in order to compensate for these wind changes and other navigational requirements. And of course, many sailboat pilots often have a blind spot when their sails obstruct their view of your power boat.

None of this is to suggest that sailors do not have right of way/stand on obligations, only to point out that the reason they usually have right of way is that they have a significantly tougher time navigating than a non sailor might think. So they should not be expected to be as easy to predict as a power boat.
Totally agree. My point was that the "offending" boat captain in the photo was very likely well aware of the sailboat and "aiming" for it on purpose. Assuming that the captain is well aware of the other boat and paying attention means he or she is already prepared to adjust course or speed as-needed if the stand-on boat does not stand-on.
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Old 07-27-2018, 05:57 AM   #43
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Question Ten-Letter Word for "Nonsense"...?

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Totally agree.
My point was that the "offending" boat captain in the photo was very likely well aware of the sailboat and "aiming" for it on purpose. Assuming that the captain is well aware of the other boat and paying attention means he or she is already prepared to adjust course or speed as-needed if the stand-on boat does not stand-on.


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Old 07-27-2018, 07:44 AM   #44
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10 letter word for nonsense? I believe your last name fits that letter count
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Old 07-28-2018, 07:37 AM   #45
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Last week I was on vacation and rented a place near the west end of Sallys Gut. I typically avoid the Weirs area at all costs because of the amount of traffic and behavior of boaters in the area but since my wife liked the place we rented, I spent a lot of the week in what I feel are the most dangerous waters on the lake.

The good news is that, for the most part, I found mid-week boaters in the area to be professional and well behaved. I may have been lucky but I only had two incidents that made me shake my head.

The first was when I was approaching the narrow area between the markers off Pitchwood. I would guess the "channel" there is only 200-300 feet wide (being generous) and there were 3 boats stopped there "socializing" with each other. They were right in the middle of the area and seperated enough to completely shutdown the passage for boats on plane which I found equivilent to parking in the left lane on rt 93 to get out and talk to a buddy on the road. I came off plane to pass and in the next minute or so I must have had 6 boats pass me on plane. All these boats were 25-30 footers kicking up massive wakes and definitely within 50 feet of me. While I kept my cool, I was a bit heated as both the behavior of the people lounging in the busy area and the boats ignoring the 150 rule.

The second was after we picked up some lunch in Weirs and were cruising at headway speed toward Governors and enjoying some burgers and fries. There wasn't a boat within a mile of me when a toon came up on my starboard on plane at a distance close enough that I literally could have hit him with a french fry (20 feet). Completely unnecessary as the entrire bay was open to him.

My wife commended me on my cool but as I told her...I was expecting much worse for the week in that area and was greatful that we didn't get any close calls or a lot more of that behavior. I think part of the 150 rule issue is that not all states have the rule and people that come up from other states are unaware of the rule here. Ignorance of the law is no excuse and courtesy SHOULD be the rule on the water but I am understanding of why so many 150 foot rules are broken due to the inconsistent law across state borders. I really expected to see a much more prominent presense of MP in the area...don't think I saw them in the Weirs all week.

Bottom line: drive defensively, always assume the other guys doesn't see you and doesn't know the laws if he did, when it doubt - come off plane and let the dangerous situation pass you. If I have someone following too close...I change my heading and let them pass. Defuse situations before they become dangerous when possible. I am greatful for the 95% of captains on the lake that know what they are doing and give the other 5% a wide birth.
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Old 07-28-2018, 08:48 AM   #46
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10 letter word for nonsense? I believe your last name fits that letter count
...harr, harr...


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Old 07-28-2018, 06:31 PM   #47
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There wasn't a boat within a mile of me when a toon came up on my starboard on plane at a distance close enough that I literally could have hit him with a french fry (20 feet). Completely unnecessary as the entrire bay was open to him.
Did it have an upper deck and a slide? That guy did that to me twice in that area...
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Old 07-29-2018, 12:53 PM   #48
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There wasn't a boat within a mile of me when a toon came up on my starboard on plane at a distance close enough that I literally could have hit him with a french fry (20 feet). Completely unnecessary as the entrire bay was open to him.
I gotta see you throw a french fry (20 feet).
Nice analogy though.
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Old 07-29-2018, 01:50 PM   #49
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I gotta see you throw a french fry (20 feet).
Nice analogy though.
Haha...those steak fries will go 20’ easy....
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Old 07-30-2018, 12:31 PM   #50
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I really wonder what goes on in the heads of people that stop in the pinch zones. There was a toon with swimmers out near the channel at the bottom of Barndoor the other day. Maybe the wind pushed them down there and they didn't realize it.
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Old 07-30-2018, 12:42 PM   #51
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I really wonder what goes on in the heads of people that stop in the pinch zones. There was a toon with swimmers out near the channel at the bottom of Barndoor the other day. Maybe the wind pushed them down there and they didn't realize it.
Said it before and I’ll say it again... “ignorance is bliss”
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Old 07-30-2018, 12:49 PM   #52
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And we got some really happy people!!


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Old 07-30-2018, 08:52 PM   #53
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FYI,

The offending captain in this incident was an older gentleman/experienced operator partially disabled and at the time of the accident admitted (during deposition) he often can not see over the bow as he is frequently confined to a chair as a result of his physical limitations.

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The camera was a 1980 Nikon E, but leaked light, and the lens was loose. An antique GE digital camera took the attached image below.

I was very late getting into digital cameras, but have five non-working digital cameras but still have three Nikon E "working" cameras, still loaded with color-print, color-slide, and B&W. I'm not risking my two 2¼"x2¼" cameras on Winnipesaukee; however, there's a $185 Hasselblad at eBay!


It's a sailboat.


You've made my point: the speedboat operators are zoned-out in "I-95 mode".

You don't wait until there's a 150-feet separation between boats before adjusting for your destination.

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Old 07-31-2018, 01:53 PM   #54
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Default Really? I expected more from the experienced boaters on this site, I'm disappointed

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I did make note of your destination and assume it is your home. I am not planning to take further action to encourage your growth as a captain, but I will be watching for you and keeping a wide berth. I hope I will not regret finding a more definitive way to ensure you take your responsibility seriously in the future. I do not want to be even indirectly responsible for you causing an accident with similar actions.

Stay safe.
I have been holding off my reply to this post for a bit now but, it’s time to vent. Given my suspicion that most on this forum have been around the lake a bit, I have to say how surprised I am at the response this post has received.

In the movie "Goodfellows" when Bob De Niro's and Ray Liiotta's characters hijack a truck, the first order of business was to take the truck driver's license and remind him that they knew where he lived!

And yet, here we are thanking Beauport for doing the same thing. Beauport is "going to be watching” for this Captain. Is Beauport planning to be judge and jury at some future date? Will he then decide if he/she is going to take any further action? Seriously?? Personally, I would much rather be called some names and be done with it, versus wondering every time if someone was waiting for me to depart my dock, intending to even things up.

Bottom-line, why is this even posted on this forum, chances are overwhelming that the suspected weekend warrior is not even aware this site exists. My guess is that the only boaters who have read this might, on average, have 20-30, or many more, years boating on this lake. I get boating, I don’t need a pompous individual trying to show what a nice person they think they are.

In my mind, the only important rule of boating is to avoid accidents. So if one is on a crowded lake or area of that lake, proceed accordingly, knowing that many others may not. They may not have skills or knowledge to match yours, or just might be having a bad minute or day. If another boater runs into you, YOU made a mistake in not avoiding the accident.
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Old 07-31-2018, 02:39 PM   #55
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I have been holding off my reply to this post for a bit now but, it’s time to vent. Given my suspicion that most on this forum have been around the lake a bit, I have to say how surprised I am at the response this post has received.

In the movie "Goodfellows" when Bob De Niro's and Ray Liiotta's characters hijack a truck, the first order of business was to take the truck driver's license and remind him that they knew where he lived!

And yet, here we are thanking Beauport for doing the same thing. Beauport is "going to be watching” for this Captain. Is Beauport planning to be judge and jury at some future date? Will he then decide if he/she is going to take any further action? Seriously?? Personally, I would much rather be called some names and be done with it, versus wondering every time if someone was waiting for me to depart my dock, intending to even things up.

Bottom-line, why is this even posted on this forum, chances are overwhelming that the suspected weekend warrior is not even aware this site exists. My guess is that the only boaters who have read this might, on average, have 20-30, or many more, years boating on this lake. I get boating, I don’t need a pompous individual trying to show what a nice person they think they are.

In my mind, the only important rule of boating is to avoid accidents. So if one is on a crowded lake or area of that lake, proceed accordingly, knowing that many others may not. They may not have skills or knowledge to match yours, or just might be having a bad minute or day. If another boater runs into you, YOU made a mistake in not avoiding the accident.
1. I think you're misreading that section. Beauport is saying he saw where the offender lived as to avoid getting hit by him and that he hopes not engaging was the right choice rather than take the opportunity to educate so's to prevent an accident in the future (that Beauport might, ultimately, feel bad about).

2. "If another boater runs into you, YOU made a mistake in not avoiding the accident." Really? I remember a post on a Wrangler forum in which a woman blamed--over and over and over--someone else's step rails for denting her car door when she opened her door into them. Outside of someone cutting another boater off, if a boater runs into someone it is ENTIRELY their fault.

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Old 07-31-2018, 02:47 PM   #56
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^
#1 above is how I read the post too.

Quote:
In my mind, the only important rule of boating is to avoid accidents. So if one is on a crowded lake or area of that lake, proceed accordingly, knowing that many others may not. They may not have skills or knowledge to match yours, or just might be having a bad minute or day. If another boater runs into you, YOU made a mistake in not avoiding the accident.
Read that statement again but replace the word boat with car and replace lake with highway.
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:00 PM   #57
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Default Not Entirely True...

thinkxingu...

Under COLREGS.... Rule 2 specifically... BOTH Captains have an equal obligation to avoid a collision... You are obligated to break a rule if it means avoiding a collision.

Rule 2 - Responsibility

(a) Nothing in these Rules shall exonerate any vessel, or the owner, master, or crew thereof, from the consequences of any neglect to comply with these
Rules or of the neglect of any precaution which may be required by the ordinary practice of seamen, or by the special circumstances of the case.

(b) In construing and complying with these Rules due regard shall be had to all dangers of navigation and collision and to any special circumstances, including the limitations of the vessels involved, which may make a departure from these Rules necessary to avoid immediate danger.

For example.... you are the "Stand On" boat, but the "Give Way" boat does not yield (for whatever reason - does not matter). You decide to to "Stand On" and collide with him, striking the side of his boat. (or he strikes you - again doesn't matter) Bottom line is you obeyed the rule and continued to "Stand On".

The operator of the "Give Way" boat will be found to be (50% - rough number) at fault... you will be found to be (50%- again rough number) for failing to alter course and avoid the accident/ improper lookout when a simple course/speed correction would have avoided the whole mess.

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Old 07-31-2018, 03:01 PM   #58
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I have been holding off my reply to this post for a bit now but, it’s time to vent. Given my suspicion that most on this forum have been around the lake a bit, I have to say how surprised I am at the response this post has received.

In the movie "Goodfellows" when Bob De Niro's and Ray Liiotta's characters hijack a truck, the first order of business was to take the truck driver's license and remind him that they knew where he lived!

And yet, here we are thanking Beauport for doing the same thing. Beauport is "going to be watching” for this Captain. Is Beauport planning to be judge and jury at some future date? Will he then decide if he/she is going to take any further action? Seriously?? Personally, I would much rather be called some names and be done with it, versus wondering every time if someone was waiting for me to depart my dock, intending to even things up.

Bottom-line, why is this even posted on this forum, chances are overwhelming that the suspected weekend warrior is not even aware this site exists. My guess is that the only boaters who have read this might, on average, have 20-30, or many more, years boating on this lake. I get boating, I don’t need a pompous individual trying to show what a nice person they think they are.

In my mind, the only important rule of boating is to avoid accidents. So if one is on a crowded lake or area of that lake, proceed accordingly, knowing that many others may not. They may not have skills or knowledge to match yours, or just might be having a bad minute or day. If another boater runs into you, YOU made a mistake in not avoiding the accident.
I don't hate this response. Well done in all respects (as much as others will disagree)!
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:02 PM   #59
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I have been holding off my reply to this post for a bit now but, it’s time to vent. Given my suspicion that most on this forum have been around the lake a bit, I have to say how surprised I am at the response this post has received.

In the movie "Goodfellows" when Bob De Niro's and Ray Liiotta's characters hijack a truck, the first order of business was to take the truck driver's license and remind him that they knew where he lived!

And yet, here we are thanking Beauport for doing the same thing. Beauport is "going to be watching” for this Captain. Is Beauport planning to be judge and jury at some future date? Will he then decide if he/she is going to take any further action? Seriously?? Personally, I would much rather be called some names and be done with it, versus wondering every time if someone was waiting for me to depart my dock, intending to even things up.

Bottom-line, why is this even posted on this forum, chances are overwhelming that the suspected weekend warrior is not even aware this site exists. My guess is that the only boaters who have read this might, on average, have 20-30, or many more, years boating on this lake. I get boating, I don’t need a pompous individual trying to show what a nice person they think they are.

In my mind, the only important rule of boating is to avoid accidents. So if one is on a crowded lake or area of that lake, proceed accordingly, knowing that many others may not. They may not have skills or knowledge to match yours, or just might be having a bad minute or day. If another boater runs into you, YOU made a mistake in not avoiding the accident.
Using actors in a ficticious film is really a wonderful way to make a point...not.

Besides, deniro (and company) is a zero...
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:05 PM   #60
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thinkxingu...

Under COLREGS.... Rule 2 specifically... BOTH Captains have an equal obligation to avoid a collision... You are obligated to break a rule if it means avoiding a collision.

Rule 2 - Responsibility

(a) Nothing in these Rules shall exonerate any vessel, or the owner, master, or crew thereof, from the consequences of any neglect to comply with these
Rules or of the neglect of any precaution which may be required by the ordinary practice of seamen, or by the special circumstances of the case.

(b) In construing and complying with these Rules due regard shall be had to all dangers of navigation and collision and to any special circumstances, including the limitations of the vessels involved, which may make a departure from these Rules necessary to avoid immediate danger.

For example.... you are the "Stand On" boat, but the "Give Way" boat does not yield (for whatever reason - does not matter). You decide to to "Stand On" and collide with him, striking the side of his boat. (or he strikes you - again doesn't matter) Bottom line is you obeyed the rule and continued to "Stand On".

The operator of the "Give Way" boat will be found to be (50% - rough number) at fault... you will be found to be (50%- again rough number) for failing to alter course and avoid the accident/ improper lookout when a simple course/speed correction would have avoided the whole mess.

Woodsy
There is a distinct difference between a "collision" and "getting run into."

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Old 07-31-2018, 03:10 PM   #61
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There is a distinct difference between a "collision" and "getting run into."

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Old 07-31-2018, 03:14 PM   #62
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"Hey, you scratched my anchor!"
When I bought my anchor, I saw that Mantus made it in stainless steel. It was so shiny, that that line was the first thing to come to mind. I bought galvanized.

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Old 07-31-2018, 03:18 PM   #63
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There is a distinct difference between a "collision" and "getting run into."

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Actually.... there isn't. That is what I was trying to explain. The ultimate rule is to "avoid collision". This is not automobile/road rules.

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Old 07-31-2018, 03:27 PM   #64
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thinkxingu...

Under COLREGS.... Rule 2 specifically... BOTH Captains have an equal obligation to avoid a collision... You are obligated to break a rule if it means avoiding a collision.
Woodsy
I would imagine that any normal thinking person would do just that if they feared that a collision was imminent. The rub is that they would have to be aware that the collision was going to happen.

Again, no different than driving a car. When I see a car coming at me head-on (it happened just a month ago), I will proceed with caution because I see it.

Those regulations do not exonerate anyone from stupidity or carelessness/wrecklessness
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:35 PM   #65
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Actually.... there isn't. That is what I was trying to explain. The ultimate rule is to "avoid collision". This is not automobile/road rules.

Woodsy
Understood, but there's no way Beauport would be at fault after getting rammed when going no-wake speed in a channel. There's absolutely no maneuver he has to avoid getting hit.

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Old 07-31-2018, 04:24 PM   #66
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Default Lawyers vs Boaters

Sounds to me like there are a bunch of lawyers (or want to be lawyers) on this site.

I am a boater, if I were to be involved in an "incident" (call it what you want) I would be looking at whatever I should have done different that might have avoided/prevented it.

I would of course separately be directing my lawyers to do all necessary to get the legals to my side, if needed . Much different issue, usually unrelated to being a decent boater, as well.
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Old 08-07-2019, 08:20 AM   #67
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APS, I'm glad that sailboat operators never make bad decisions while operating their vessels. Enjoy!
https://youtu.be/x8-vfMqMLAM Dave
Yup. Sailboats have a visibility problem.

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Old 08-07-2019, 03:25 PM   #68
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Yup. Sailboats have a visibility problem.

I think if they just put that sucker in reverse, probably back right off that sailboat!! No problem.
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Old 08-07-2019, 03:30 PM   #69
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Yup. Sailboats have a visibility problem.

That will buff out....
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Old 08-07-2019, 04:44 PM   #70
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That's the response when you keep yelling "right of way" and tack three times in front of a Captain Bonehead who doesn't slow down for anybody.
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Old 08-07-2019, 06:38 PM   #71
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Default Sailboat had the right of way...

I see a lot of scary stuff on weekends.
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Old 08-08-2019, 08:45 AM   #72
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I see a lot of scary stuff on weekends.
From the pic you can't tell if the sailboat was under power or not, so how do you know he had the right of way?
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Old 08-08-2019, 11:35 AM   #73
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From the pic you can't tell if the sailboat was under power or not, so how do you know he had the right of way?
The sailboat has both it's mainsail and jib up. It was not under power.
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Old 08-15-2019, 10:26 AM   #74
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That will buff out....
Pardon me, but do you have any grey poupon?
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Old 08-21-2019, 06:14 PM   #75
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Default Way too much

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I see a lot of scary stuff on weekends.
Me, too. It's one reason I try to get most of my boating in during the week, particularly late in the day. I've seen more than a few gorgeous sunsets while out on the lake this summer.
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Old 08-21-2019, 06:42 PM   #76
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Default Confusion Delusion

Heading in to the mainland just southeast of Timber Island, we were approached by a boat approaching from our starboard quarter. I maintained my course since the other boat was an approaching (overtaking) vessel. When it became obvious that he was not changing his course, I reduced my speed to allow him to pass in front of us. I indicated my displeasure by giving him a thumb's down (I did have a choice of digits to use). The other boat's operator yelled that he had the right-of-way. I presume that he thought he was correct since he was approaching from our right.

There was plenty of lake behind us. He could have easily gone behind us without a change in speed. I believe that most of us would have done so. 🐻
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Old 08-22-2019, 09:59 AM   #77
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Heading in to the mainland just southeast of Timber Island, we were approached by a boat approaching from our starboard quarter. I maintained my course since the other boat was an approaching (overtaking) vessel. When it became obvious that he was not changing his course, I reduced my speed to allow him to pass in front of us. I indicated my displeasure by giving him a thumb's down (I did have a choice of digits to use). The other boat's operator yelled that he had the right-of-way. I presume that he thought he was correct since he was approaching from our right.

There was plenty of lake behind us. He could have easily gone behind us without a change in speed. I believe that most of us would have done so. 🐻
I have seen this same scenario many times and always seem to be the one to “chicken” out from the other boat’s obvious game of chicken.
It’s like most everyone else out there thinks they have the ROW no matter what.
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Old 08-22-2019, 01:43 PM   #78
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Heading in to the mainland just southeast of Timber Island, we were approached by a boat approaching from our starboard quarter. I maintained my course since the other boat was an approaching (overtaking) vessel. When it became obvious that he was not changing his course, I reduced my speed to allow him to pass in front of us. I indicated my displeasure by giving him a thumb's down (I did have a choice of digits to use). The other boat's operator yelled that he had the right-of-way. I presume that he thought he was correct since he was approaching from our right.

There was plenty of lake behind us. He could have easily gone behind us without a change in speed. I believe that most of us would have done so. 🐻
Well, if you were heading to the mainland, and he was on your right (starboard).... he did have the ROW. You were most likely the Give Way Vessel.

Overtaking only applies when the vessel approaches from the stern.... past the 112.5 deg mark.

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Old 08-22-2019, 01:53 PM   #79
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Default "Starboard Quarterr"?

Woodsy, I took Barney's phrase "starboard quarter" to mean "stern quarter", and thus overtaking. If it was bow quarter up to 112.5, you are correct.
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Old 08-22-2019, 02:22 PM   #80
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Default Stern Quarter

The boat in my above entry was behind the danger zone of dead ahead to two points abaft (aft) of my starboard beam, thus he was the overtaking vessel.

I always yield rather than quibble. I'm retired and I have all day to get to my destination (whole). 😇
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Old 08-22-2019, 02:30 PM   #81
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Woodsy, I took Barney's phrase "starboard quarter" to mean "stern quarter", and thus overtaking. If it was bow quarter up to 112.5, you are correct.
"Starboard quarter", in marine terms, literally means off the stern on the starboard side. As described, the other captain should have given way long before he/she put the boat on a collision course on the starboard side of the OP's boat.
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Old 08-22-2019, 02:39 PM   #82
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Woodsy, I took Barney's phrase "starboard quarter" to mean "stern quarter", and thus overtaking. If it was bow quarter up to 112.5, you are correct.
Descant.....

On first read I took it that way too.... then I reread the thread. If the guy was approaching from the stern quarter, as you indicate, Barney held course and speed the guy would have/should have passed behind him safely... that is what happens past the 112.5 degree mark. Barney also had the option to speed up with the same result.. the guy passes behind Barney.

Barney chose to slow, and allow the guy to pass in front... that action (and that Barney observed the guy was not changing course after some time had passed) tells me the guy was within the 112.5 and Barney was the Give Way.

Like Barney said though... most likely with simple course correction the guy could have safely passed behind Barney. I do that all the time!

BTW.. this is not a criticism of Barney... please don't take it that way. Just dissecting an incident on the lake.

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Old 08-22-2019, 05:57 PM   #83
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Once the “give way” vessel is not showing any signs of giving way, I alter course or speed to avoid it.

In my experience on Winni this is required about 50% of the time.

So far I have resisted the temptation to communicate any feelings about the bad manners or lack of knowledge to the other captains.

I feel no obligation to educate other boaters.

My sole obligation is the safety of my vessel.
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Old 08-23-2019, 09:29 AM   #84
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Is this right?
Barney is on course. Vessel #2 approaches from his starboard stern quarter at a higher rate of speed. Barney wisely is keeping a 360 degree look out. So Barney is being overtaken, and has the ROW. #2 moves into Barney's forward starboard quarter and now #2 has the ROW, although still at a higher rate of speed. At some point, Barney slows to avoid a too close approach of the two vessels to each other. Well done, regardless of where the two boats were in the transition of ROW from one to the other. Yes, it probably would have been a safer passage if #2 had altered course and passed behind Barney. #2 should have, in my opinion, done that while Barney still had the obvious ROW. In 49 states without a 150; rule I think this would have been an unremarkable event. (We don't know how close the boats were or for how long, or at what speed except one was faster than the other.)
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Old 08-23-2019, 11:58 AM   #85
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Is this right?
Barney is on course. Vessel #2 approaches from his starboard stern quarter at a higher rate of speed. Barney wisely is keeping a 360 degree look out. So Barney is being overtaken, and has the ROW. #2 moves into Barney's forward starboard quarter and now #2 has the ROW, although still at a higher rate of speed. At some point, Barney slows to avoid a too close approach of the two vessels to each other. Well done, regardless of where the two boats were in the transition of ROW from one to the other. Yes, it probably would have been a safer passage if #2 had altered course and passed behind Barney. #2 should have, in my opinion, done that while Barney still had the obvious ROW. In 49 states without a 150; rule I think this would have been an unremarkable event. (We don't know how close the boats were or for how long, or at what speed except one was faster than the other.)
IMO, vessel #2 in the description above is always the burdened vessel and cannot legally maintain a collision course. It should have slowed or turned to port to pass behind Barney. I don't believe you can legally transition from the give-way vessel to the stand-on vessel (assuming the original stand-on vessel stands on) by simply overtaking on the starboard side. That said, I get that someone could interpret the rules that way.
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Old 08-23-2019, 12:57 PM   #86
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Default Anticipation 🎼

While boating on Lake Winnipesaukee for sixty-two years, and earlier on the inland rivers of the eastern states of the U.S.A., trouble has been avoided by anticipating what others might do including sailboat movements, boats towing a tuber or skier, a person running a trot line on a river, a tow boat with a string of barges, or other boats operating nearby on the body of water which I was enjoying. When in doubt of another's intent, I simply changed course, slowed down, or stopped. 🐻
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Old 08-23-2019, 04:20 PM   #87
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Default Can't disagree

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IMO, vessel #2 in the description above is always the burdened vessel and cannot legally maintain a collision course. It should have slowed or turned to port to pass behind Barney. I don't believe you can legally transition from the give-way vessel to the stand-on vessel (assuming the original stand-on vessel stands on) by simply overtaking on the starboard side. That said, I get that someone could interpret the rules that way.
I can't disagree with you. But I can see where #2 might think that if he gets abeam, he can just continue on, which is what he did. The big point is, Barney kept a 360 degree watch and acted appropriately. Oops. That's two points.
Off course, nobody rang in and claimed to be #2's captain and give us other info.
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Old 08-23-2019, 09:23 PM   #88
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In these discussions it is important to consider that NOBODY has the "right of way".

There is a "stand on" vessel and a "give way" vessel.

Each is to perform their duties accordingly.

Unless there is certainty that no possibility of collision exists, each captain must assume that a collision is possible and perform their duties to avoid a collision.

The captain of the "stand on" vessel must avoid a collision even if the "give way" vessel does not give way.
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Old 08-23-2019, 09:55 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by 8gv View Post
In these discussions it is important to consider that NOBODY has the "right of way".

There is a "stand on" vessel and a "give way" vessel.

Each is to perform their duties accordingly.

Unless there is certainty that no possibility of collision exists, each captain must assume that a collision is possible and perform their duties to avoid a collision.

The captain of the "stand on" vessel must avoid a collision even if the "give way" vessel does not give way.
Agreed. Common sense to me...
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Old 08-25-2019, 03:46 PM   #90
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Default Deja Vu

While coming in to the mainland yesterday at the same location I mentioned in Item#76 above, a boat was fast approaching from my left. As I was in it's "danger zone", I was the stand on vessel (though I remained seated). The other captain altered her/his course and passed behind me without changing speed. I gave a wave (we frequently do this) and continued on our way. 🐻
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Old 08-25-2019, 06:54 PM   #91
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While boating on Lake Winnipesaukee for sixty-two years, and earlier on the inland rivers of the eastern states of the U.S.A., trouble has been avoided by anticipating what others might do including sailboat movements, boats towing a tuber or skier, a person running a trot line on a river, a tow boat with a string of barges, or other boats operating nearby on the body of water which I was enjoying. When in doubt of another's intent, I simply changed course, slowed down, or stopped. 🐻
I have done likewise.

I automatically assume that other boaters can't see me, are distracted, don't understand or don't care about he "rules of the road", or are affected by the chemical overload sloshing above their eyebrows. Better to back off and let these boaters pass me by and live to boat another day.

However, I do have to admit to having the urge to launch a torpedo at the more egregious of the Cap'n Boneheads...if I had torpedoes.
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Old 08-26-2019, 03:31 PM   #92
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...However, I do have to admit to having the urge to launch a torpedo at the more egregious of the Cap'n Boneheads...if I had torpedoes.
There is that urge, but I'ved had treouble coming up with an idea that is not illegal or harmful ti the lake. Water balloons? Paint balls? I doubt that an online photo gallery of Captain Boneheads would reach the desired audience.
Best solution, when things get really bad? Let somebody else drive, splash on some more SPF30 and just roll over.
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