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Old 03-19-2015, 03:51 PM   #1
WINNOCTURN
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Question New Snowmachine on the Trails

FAT BIKE, have you seen one yet?

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E-mail to NHSA Office

NEW SNOWMACHINE ON THE TRAILS


Gail,

FAT BIKES?

I was watching WMUR Channel 9 last night when one of their segments on NH
Outdoor activities the "Reporter" made a Statement these types Bikes could be
used on NH Snowmobile Trails. I don’t think so. What do we do when we encounter
one on the trails and we inform him his Bike is not a SNOWMASHINE and he says
he heard it on the News.

It's a slow day at work.

George

Hi George

That's a good question - I'll have to get in tough with the Trails Bureau
and Fish & Game and find out the "legal" rules on this

thanks
Gail

Gail Hanson
Executive Director
New Hampshire Snowmobile Association
603-273-0220
Fax: 603-273-0218
email: execdir@nhsa.com

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Old 03-19-2015, 04:13 PM   #2
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Default Fat Bikes

Fat Bikes are all the rage now. You will see them on the trails in the future. A friend of mine rides the local trails near my house all winter. He even got a picture on the club website.

Although they are wheeled vehicles they hardly do any damage. It's not like a dirt bike it's just pedal driven. Like cross country skiers or snowshoers they should just move off trail when they hear a sled coming.
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Old 03-19-2015, 04:35 PM   #3
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I ran into a group of them on the rail bed in Wolfeboro
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Old 03-19-2015, 04:53 PM   #4
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http://www.wmur.com/escape-outside/f...alley/31847086
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Old 03-19-2015, 07:10 PM   #5
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Likin bikin in Alton makes / sells them. I have seen him riding this winter around town, but haven't seen or heard of any on the snowmobile trails in the Alton area. I wouldn't want to see them on trails, snowmobile or cross country skiing.

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Old 03-22-2015, 08:14 AM   #6
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Default 2damts link?

Quote:
Originally Posted by upthesaukee View Post
Likin bikin in Alton makes / sells them. I have seen him riding this winter around town, but haven't seen or heard of any on the snowmobile trails in the Alton area. I wouldn't want to see them on trails, snowmobile or cross country skiing.

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Did you read 2DAMTS Link?

I have some concerns as to Snowmobile Trails being used and several businesses in the Mount Washington Valley are make money on Rentals of the Bikes. If they are on our trails are the being Registered? They certainly would be Classified as a "Wheeled Vehicle". I think in some RSA the phrase "NO WHEELED VEHICALS ALLOWED".

I also have some questions of Safety on the Trials with them and their impact on Grooming.

I have sent a request to NHSA and our District NHSA Director on this subject. I have a gut feeling the FAT BIKE situation may not be well known with in the Snowmobiling Community and those who Protect and Govern it.
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Old 03-22-2015, 10:27 AM   #7
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Flame me if you will but I kind of have a small issue with non-snowmobilers using the trails that clubs and volunteers have worked so hard to build over all the years. How many, if any at all, help or donate to the maintenance of the trails? With that said, I do snowmobile alone sometimes (not too far from home) and do like that somebody may come along that can offer help for any reason. OK, get the wet noodle out on me for riding alone but none of my friends or family sled. I have to link up with a neighbor or something like that usually.

Please don't overreact to or overestimate my position on this issue. It's pretty small in the overall big picture. I have come across hikers and dog walkers who really did not seem all that friendly towards me as a snowmobiler even as I passed them while going very slow and taking obvious due caution for them. I find that odd seeing as how they are enjoying the use of a trail that wouldn't be there if it weren't for us sledders. The state makes snowmobilers contribute financially to the trails in the extra registration fee or the choice to join a club. Of course, Joining a club is more fun.

Would it be out of line and absurd to think that these bikers might need to contribute financially or join a sled club with no intention of sledding? I learned a lot during my groomer ride last weekend about how the funding works for our trails. In my mind it's only fair for everyone to chip in to enjoy the trails. No, I'm not advocating that somebody who wants to take their dog for a walk on the trail be required to pay for it. I would like a friendly wave though when we pass each other.
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Old 03-22-2015, 04:59 PM   #8
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I think if this issue is not addressed soon, it will become a major problem. We all pay reg fee's, insurance( most of us) and belong to clubs. What do these people do? These folks are using trails we all pay to maintain and are contributing nothing. The vast majority of these folks are not friends of motorized recreation. I say nip this in the bud before we are out numbered and out voted.
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Old 03-22-2015, 05:04 PM   #9
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don't forget... dog walkers, bikers, and in deep, snow x-country skier's or dog sleds would not be out there if the trail was not groomed or at least beat down by sleds.
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Old 03-22-2015, 05:25 PM   #10
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Default Enjoy the ride...

But remember, not ALL trails are cut through the wilderness by the clubs. I regularly walk (though careful and listening for machines coming and going). The trails I walk are actually streets with "seasonal" cottages on them that the clubs have contracted to use (from what I understand of the process)... I can definitely understand your concerns with wheeled vehicles messing up the "grooming", but some of us (in those rare places) are actually supposed to be there too... This has been my first year doing so, but So far I haven't had any problems with folks going by on sleds. All has seemed friendly. And you are right (at least with the depth this year) I wouldn't be walking it if it hadn't been knocked down. So thanks for that!
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Old 03-22-2015, 06:29 PM   #11
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Default To me it's not about messing up the grooming

I'm not concerned with the bikes messing up the grooming.
I'm more concerned about meeting one of these "silent naturists" out on the trail on a blind corner, even at 40 mph it's not going to be pretty! Who's fault is it? Who is registered and who has insurance? The guy on the sled.

I love being outdoors all year, I get it. IMO ride your bikes (I do ride mt bikes on off road trails during the non snow months) on bike path's. These trails are 90 percent built and maintained by people who pay (through sled registration, fund raisers and donations), not to mention the time that people volunteer to groom and maintain the trails.

I have to say I totally agree with HomeWood, when I come up and slowdown, stop if I have too, because of someone walking there dog, skiing or snowshoeing on a snowmobile trail, I always wave and say hello. What I get back in return is usually a blank stare or a look of discust. It's designated as a snowmobile trail, if I'm doing 40 and that is within the legal limit and you are walking you dog on the trail.........why am I the bad guy??
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Old 03-22-2015, 09:32 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2DAMTS View Post
I'm not concerned with the bikes messing up the grooming.
I'm more concerned about meeting one of these "silent naturists" out on the trail on a blind corner, even at 40 mph it's not going to be pretty! Who's fault is it? Who is registered and who has insurance? The guy on the sled.

I love being outdoors all year, I get it. IMO ride your bikes (I do ride mt bikes on off road trails during the non snow months) on bike path's. These trails are 90 percent built and maintained by people who pay (through sled registration, fund raisers and donations), not to mention the time that people volunteer to groom and maintain the trails.

I have to say I totally agree with HomeWood, when I come up and slowdown, stop if I have too, because of someone walking there dog, skiing or snowshoeing on a snowmobile trail, I always wave and say hello. What I get back in return is usually a blank stare or a look of discust. It's designated as a snowmobile trail, if I'm doing 40 and that is within the legal limit and you are walking you dog on the trail.........why am I the bad guy??
If you hit someone walking on a trail it's your fault period. It's a speed limit, not the speed you should be blasting at everywhere you go. If you come around a blind corner at 40 then you are a menace, that's not a smart thing to do.
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Old 03-22-2015, 10:05 PM   #13
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Default I agree with you

So if you decide to walk down the freeway with your dog and I accidentally hit you........it's my fault?
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Old 03-23-2015, 07:41 AM   #14
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these bikes are big on the beaches also. we're on siesta key, fl and they are all over-and no I don't miss winni right now. we spent most of feb there and the sledding was awesome.
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Old 03-23-2015, 08:11 AM   #15
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Default more in common

I think you will find the vast majority of mtn bikers ESPECIALLY ones willing and able to fork over $2K for a fat bike are not trail killing tree huggers and face the same trail issues as snowmobiliers. New England has a very strong club, NEMBA, that works just as hard to keep the trails open and fight off he 2% of the idiots that ruin it for all. MTN bikers are not liked by the naturists just like snowmobilers.

I almost guarantee any local NEMBA chapter would work with any snowmobile club on trail maintenance and contribute their fair share to keep the trails safe and open.

These guys are definitly not the enemy. They just want to ride like you and I.
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Old 03-23-2015, 08:14 AM   #16
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Some of these posts leave the impression that there is a hard, black and white line between being snow machine rider and bike rider, and that the latter category will always be against the former. I don't think so.

My sons are avid sled riders. They are also avid mountain bikers. I can see them enjoying both activities. I do ride with them sometimes, but it's not something I'd go out of my way to do.

I would be interested in riding the trails on a bike. I love being in the woods in the winter. But I like to do so at a slower, quieter pace. I'd also be fine with having to pay for the upkeep and maintenance of the trails. I'd be willing to bet most other bike riders would also be fine with that.

Will there be a few of the typical fanatics who want to ban those not liking just what they like? Of course. And there will obviously need to be some rule adaptations for other wheeled vehicles using the trails. But I'm a believer that the majority will rule and sane decisions will be made over time, and the added revenue to many of the clubs could make a big difference.
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Old 03-23-2015, 10:05 AM   #17
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Default It's not a question of IF but WHEN...

We already share the trails with Hikers, X-Country Skiers, ATV's (certain places), Moose, Deer etc...

At some point there will be a collision between a snowmobile and a Mtn Biker... statistically it is unavoidable. Hopefully nobody get seriously injured.

That being said, there should be some rules and regulations put in place to minimize the danger...

1. Requiring the bike to be registered & join a club... Not saying they have to pay the same $100 as sleds, but I think a $50 registration fee on a $2000 bike is a fair deal. That money should go into the fund to be distributed to the snowmobile clubs for trail maintenance.

2. They (mtn bikers) should be required to wear helmets... kind of a no brainer, but you can't fix stupid.

3. Require the mtn bikers to adhere to the rules of the trail so speak. Keep to the right, yield etc. etc. Some of the trails are VERY narrow and yielding to a snowmobile behind you should be a requirement.

4. Require the bikes to have lights if riding after dark...

5. Signage at the trail junctions indicating that the trails are shared use...

A few simple rules and I think we can all coexist on the trails peacefully.

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Old 03-23-2015, 07:47 PM   #18
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While I agree with Woodsy on most of his post, I disagree with some of it. I do both, ride a sled and mountain bike. I do agree with a registration fee, but what is the biker going to get out of it? Most of the sled trails are not going to be accessible in the summer months, do you want a biker going across your lawn during your July 4th bbq? Most of the sled trails here are posted for the summer months.

Helmets are a good idea.

A collision is inevitable. The question is how bad will it be and whose fault is it going to be?
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Old 03-23-2015, 07:59 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhcatrider View Post
While I agree with Woodsy on most of his post, I disagree with some of it. I do both, ride a sled and mountain bike. I do agree with a registration fee, but what is the biker going to get out of it? Most of the sled trails are not going to be accessible in the summer months, do you want a biker going across your lawn during your July 4th bbq? Most of the sled trails here are posted for the summer months.

Helmets are a good idea.

A collision is inevitable. The question is how bad will it be and whose fault is it going to be?
I think we are talking about fat bikes using the trails in the winter. In that case they have use of the trails the same amount of time that the snowmobiles do. Snowmobile trails are not considered usable off season unless the owner provides access for other activities.
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Old 03-23-2015, 07:59 PM   #20
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Default LANDOWNER PERMISSION That what it's all about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nhcatrider View Post
While I agree with Woodsy on most of his post, I disagree with some of it. I do both, ride a sled and mountain bike. I do agree with a registration fee, but what is the biker going to get out of it? Most of the sled trails are not going to be accessible in the summer months, do you want a biker going across your lawn during your July 4th bbq? Most of the sled trails here are posted for the summer months.

Helmets are a good idea.

A collision is inevitable. The question is how bad will it be and whose fault is it going to be?

LANDOWNER PERMISSION, That what it's all about.

That's who controls HOW,WHAT and WHEN these Trial are open. Not Us.
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Old 03-24-2015, 06:24 AM   #21
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www.waterville.com/nordic/fatbikes.html has them for rent at the WV cross country ski store for use on their groomed xc trail system, and they have fat tire bike tours led by an instructor. Something new this year.

About a month ago, saw a brite yellow, fat tire bicycle for sale at the Plymouth Wal-Mart, made of aluminum, and looking to be very well made for about $239, which is a lot of money for a bicycle sold at Wal-Mart. I tried it out in the store but it was a bit of a too small a frame for me. At $239, it sure seemed like a great steal-of-a-deal, considering that it was welded aluminum frame with disc brakes, and very well constructed.

Saw an older guy in the Meredith Hannaford about a month ago who had a small gasoline engine powered fat tire bike, and he had very recently suffered a pretty severe bloody, torn-up face and head lacerations injury probably from riding the fat tire gas bike on the paved roads in Meredith...as I had seen it driving the roads prior to this...one look at him was tough to see...very unusual to see someone so beat up like that at the super-market....probably 60-65 years age.... and probably not wearing a helmet with a front face protection...oh well....tough luck....and wish him a strong recovery!
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Old 03-25-2015, 11:37 AM   #22
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Default Read what others are Thinking?

Read what others are Thinking?

This is a link to SLedNH.com
It is devoted probably 90% toward Snowmobiling issues in the area and across the region

Statistics on interest in the topic.

Views: Posts
Here: 1467 20

SLedNH 660 33

http://www.slednh.com/forums/index.p...on-the-trails/

I am hoping to attend the County Meeting this Thursday Night.

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Old 03-25-2015, 01:44 PM   #23
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I never knew about this website. Thanks.
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Old 03-25-2015, 02:48 PM   #24
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Thumbs up Great site for Snowmobiling

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I never knew about this website. Thanks.
HomeWood,

Glad I could introduce you and hopefully others here.

It was started in 2004 by several members of the OSSIPEE Valley Club. I am proud to be Member #12.

For a small Club they sure do a lot for our Sport!

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Old 03-25-2015, 03:45 PM   #25
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I don't look forward to these folks on the trails especially if numbers of them grow into a fad. I live down in Rowley MA and we have a lot bikers that I assume are in clubs. They ride on the roads weekends and during the evenings during the week sometimes at times 3 an 4 abreast in flocks of 5 to 30 plus. They simply will not get out of the way of vehicles and intefer with the flow of traffic on the road.
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Old 03-25-2015, 05:04 PM   #26
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That's because they are all too busy either talking or admiring each others spandex outfits....
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Old 03-26-2015, 07:31 AM   #27
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Default Trails

I allow a trail to cross my land and I do not own a snowmobile. The access across my land is for all recreational activities. Hikers, snowshoeing, snowmobiles and yes even fat tire bikes are welcome. Everyone needs to learn to share and participate in their sport responsibly and respect each other! The trails are closed across my land in summer months and I have had absolutely no problems whatsoever!
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Old 03-26-2015, 11:13 AM   #28
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Default Right to the Point!

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I allow a trail to cross my land and I do not own a snowmobile. The access across my land is for all recreational activities. Hikers, snowshoeing, snowmobiles and yes even fat tire bikes are welcome. Everyone needs to learn to share and participate in their sport responsibly and respect each other! The trails are closed across my land in summer months and I have had absolutely no problems whatsoever!
Flyfisha,

As I have been saying to the comments of RSA's and such it is the LANDOWNERS that have the "SAY" in who can use his Property.

LANDOWNER PERMISSION!

Thank you for opening your property for these Activities!

WINNOCTURN

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Old 04-13-2015, 05:20 AM   #29
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This is what Vermonts dealing with: http://www.hardcores...hmentid=1402497 The rider on that fat bike is flipping off the snowmobiler. The local clubs, NHSA and Vast better deal with these people and soon or the trails as we know them re going to change, and not for the better of snowmobilers.
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Old 04-13-2015, 10:09 AM   #30
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Default Sent question to president of nhsa

Quote:
Originally Posted by stynx55 View Post
This is what Vermonts dealing with: http://www.hardcores...hmentid=1402497 The rider on that fat bike is flipping off the snowmobiler. The local clubs, NHSA and Vast better deal with these people and soon or the trails as we know them re going to change, and not for the better of snowmobilers.
stynx55,

I sent a e-mail to Roger Wright yesterday,
NHSA ANNUAL MEETING

First topic was on ONLINE REGISTRATIONS
Personally I am not for it.

One other topic I hope will be discussed is the issue or concern about FAT BIKES and SNOMOBILE TRAIL use. What are your felling on this and NHSA? Links below are comments both Pro & Con
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ad.php?t=18904
http://www.slednh.com/forums/index.p...on-the-trails/
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Old 04-13-2015, 05:16 PM   #31
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Winnocturn, thanks for doing that. I'm not against these folks having a place to ride, everyone should be able to enjoy their sport of choice, its just I don't feel they should be able to do it on the coatails of the local clubs. Our clubs have dedicated volunteers who work so hard to maintain our trails, deal with landowners etc etc. We all pay registration fees, club fees and in most cases have insurance. Again thanks for all you do its appreciated.
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