We need fast reliable cheap fiber broadband now more than ever!

Twags · 03-24-2020, 11:11 AM

The current pandemic crisis brings home as never before how vital affordable broadband communication is. When in-person contacts, meetings, school sessions, medical appointments, and even visits to the library and restaurants grind to a halt, the Internet is the glue that holds society together.

In Sandwich, a Selectman’s committee has been investigating ways of bringing broadband internet to every household. They have learned that there are more than 100 rural electric coops that have worked to bring broadband fiber internet access to every home. Even for those towns that have internet via cable, access to fiber broadband offers an alternative service that is both faster and less expensive. But here in New Hampshire, our Electric Coop has shown no interest in making their poles available for this service. The time has come for those of us who buy our electricity from the New Hampshire Electric Coop to act.

NHEC bylaws allow questions proposed by member petition to be included on the ballot. We are circulating a petition requesting that a question be included on the May 2020 ballot which specifically adds “facilitating access to broadband Internet for members" to NHEC’s charter. Since it is member owned, NHEC has an obligation to go beyond the base regulatory requirements imposed by the Public Utility Commission. The Coop should proactively encourage broadband developers to service its members.

Please go to this website and sign today: http://www.nhbroadband.com/ We have only 3 more weeks to collect 200 additional signatures.

baygo · 03-24-2020, 11:21 AM

What if we invest in your proposed fiber infrastructure and 5g wireless comes along?

BroadHopper · 03-24-2020, 12:11 PM

Unlike Laconia which has three trunks running between poles, either cable or fiber optics. Some municipalities down South owns the fiber optics trunk through their town. The phone, cable and internet providers has to rent from the town the right to use the lines to provide to subscribers. The providers owns the transmission lines between the subscribers and the town's trunk line.

Advantages is there is only one line throughout the town. Town maintains the trunk. Right now, in Laconia a provider can abandon a line and it remains on the poles. Also the providers do not transfer their lines to a new pole install. Creating the mess you see in Laconia.

I think Bristol is doing something similar. I think it's an excellent idea!

MAXUM · 03-24-2020, 02:16 PM

The challenge to 5G is the fact you need a much denser population of towers\repeaters as the transmit range difference between 4G and 5G is substantial. To be more precise 4G has a range of approximately 10 miles, 5G is about 1000 feet.

That will be a significant challenge to 5G making it's way into rural areas, for now. I'm sure as technology develops that may change.

The Real BigGuy · 03-25-2020, 08:42 AM

I believe there are actually 2 current 5G technologies. Verizon’s has about a 1000 ft radius & ATT’s is longer, in the 1 mile+ range. But you are correct, both way shorter than 4G. The issue for rural areas (most of NH) is subscribers/repeater. There aren’t enough to justify the cost/repeater. I don’t see 5G in non-urban/suburban areas for a long while unless there is significant state/federal subsidies for installation. It just won’t be profitable without them.

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MAXUM · 03-25-2020, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

I believe there are actually 2 current 5G technologies. Verizon’s has about a 1000 ft radius & ATT’s is longer, in the 1 mile+ range. But you are correct, both way shorter than 4G. The issue for rural areas (most of NH) is subscribers/repeater. There aren’t enough to justify the cost/repeater. I don’t see 5G in non-urban/suburban areas for a long while unless there is significant state/federal subsidies for installation. It just won’t be profitable without them.

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And you gotta figure that performance takes a pretty good hit once you start getting towards the max range. Heck wireless starts dropping off very rapidly once the signal starts to show any sign of weakness. I'd imagine 5G will behave in a similar fashion.

Hey like any technology give it time and somebody will figure out a way to overcome these obstacles.

Lakegeezer · 03-26-2020, 06:46 AM

It is hard to be sure how we'll get our in-home bandwidth in 10 years. Wired or wireless. Wireless in the form of 5G will take that long to reach into all the nooks and crannies of the lakes region, but also has the fatal flaw of data caps for home use. Wireless from space will be here, but the speed, capacity and costs are unknown. On the ground, in 10 years, it will be the left over cable installations and growing numbers of fiber. Fiber today can provide bidirectional 1 gigabit/second and within 10 years will offer 10 Gbps. Few need that speed today, so service in the 50-100 Mbps range can sold at a lower cost. 5G and Spacenets won't be there. Datacaps are the disqualifier for wireless, as long as every provider has them. Last 30 days, I used 560 gigabytes of data (lock-down does that). Verizon wireless doesn't have a plan for that. Costs are important too. There has to be a plan for everyone.

The NHEC petition is a good one. It is unlikely, but possible, that NHEC will get into fiber-to-the-home business, but in the end, the pole owners have control over who strings the wires. If the incumbent cable and telephone companies won't put in fiber to the home, there are many small companies waiting to do it. Today, the cable and telephone companies are making it difficult for newcomers to use their poles. NHEC doesn't own all the poles, but can be a force to encourage other pole owners to be more open about renting space.

Money is going to be an issue, especially if there is a long recession starting in 2020. State and the feds were starting award grants for fiber infrastructure, but those may be delayed. The business case for a small company to come in and take away the incumbent business is a tough one. Solving the pole issue makes it a bit easier. Or, maybe a miracle will happen and the incumbents will upgrade to fiber. We'll see.

There is less doubt than a month ago about the need for 100% high-speed availability to every home. Remote learning, telecommuting and tele-medicine just turned the corner and will only accelerate in popularity.

The Real BigGuy · 03-26-2020, 02:33 PM

10, 15 or so years ago there was an idea to put small repeaters, or broadcast points, on every 3rd or 4th telephone pole to eliminate the need for big towers. I think it was a Popular Science thing. Wonder if it’s feasible for 5G

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03-24-2020, 11:11 AM	#1
Twags Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 14 Thanks: 2 Thanked 8 Times in 6 Posts	We need fast reliable cheap fiber broadband now more than ever! The current pandemic crisis brings home as never before how vital affordable broadband communication is. When in-person contacts, meetings, school sessions, medical appointments, and even visits to the library and restaurants grind to a halt, the Internet is the glue that holds society together. In Sandwich, a Selectman’s committee has been investigating ways of bringing broadband internet to every household. They have learned that there are more than 100 rural electric coops that have worked to bring broadband fiber internet access to every home. Even for those towns that have internet via cable, access to fiber broadband offers an alternative service that is both faster and less expensive. But here in New Hampshire, our Electric Coop has shown no interest in making their poles available for this service. The time has come for those of us who buy our electricity from the New Hampshire Electric Coop to act. NHEC bylaws allow questions proposed by member petition to be included on the ballot. We are circulating a petition requesting that a question be included on the May 2020 ballot which specifically adds “facilitating access to broadband Internet for members" to NHEC’s charter. Since it is member owned, NHEC has an obligation to go beyond the base regulatory requirements imposed by the Public Utility Commission. The Coop should proactively encourage broadband developers to service its members. Please go to this website and sign today: http://www.nhbroadband.com/ We have only 3 more weeks to collect 200 additional signatures.

03-24-2020, 12:11 PM	#3
BroadHopper Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Laconia NH Posts: 5,509 Thanks: 3,116 Thanked 1,089 Times in 783 Posts	Some municipalities invest. Unlike Laconia which has three trunks running between poles, either cable or fiber optics. Some municipalities down South owns the fiber optics trunk through their town. The phone, cable and internet providers has to rent from the town the right to use the lines to provide to subscribers. The providers owns the transmission lines between the subscribers and the town's trunk line. Advantages is there is only one line throughout the town. Town maintains the trunk. Right now, in Laconia a provider can abandon a line and it remains on the poles. Also the providers do not transfer their lines to a new pole install. Creating the mess you see in Laconia. I think Bristol is doing something similar. I think it's an excellent idea! __________________ Someday may never be an actual day. Last edited by BroadHopper; 03-25-2020 at 06:12 AM.

03-26-2020, 06:46 AM	#7
Lakegeezer Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Moultonboro, NH Posts: 1,657 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 342 Thanked 618 Times in 278 Posts	Fiber is the future It is hard to be sure how we'll get our in-home bandwidth in 10 years. Wired or wireless. Wireless in the form of 5G will take that long to reach into all the nooks and crannies of the lakes region, but also has the fatal flaw of data caps for home use. Wireless from space will be here, but the speed, capacity and costs are unknown. On the ground, in 10 years, it will be the left over cable installations and growing numbers of fiber. Fiber today can provide bidirectional 1 gigabit/second and within 10 years will offer 10 Gbps. Few need that speed today, so service in the 50-100 Mbps range can sold at a lower cost. 5G and Spacenets won't be there. Datacaps are the disqualifier for wireless, as long as every provider has them. Last 30 days, I used 560 gigabytes of data (lock-down does that). Verizon wireless doesn't have a plan for that. Costs are important too. There has to be a plan for everyone. The NHEC petition is a good one. It is unlikely, but possible, that NHEC will get into fiber-to-the-home business, but in the end, the pole owners have control over who strings the wires. If the incumbent cable and telephone companies won't put in fiber to the home, there are many small companies waiting to do it. Today, the cable and telephone companies are making it difficult for newcomers to use their poles. NHEC doesn't own all the poles, but can be a force to encourage other pole owners to be more open about renting space. Money is going to be an issue, especially if there is a long recession starting in 2020. State and the feds were starting award grants for fiber infrastructure, but those may be delayed. The business case for a small company to come in and take away the incumbent business is a tough one. Solving the pole issue makes it a bit easier. Or, maybe a miracle will happen and the incumbents will upgrade to fiber. We'll see. There is less doubt than a month ago about the need for 100% high-speed availability to every home. Remote learning, telecommuting and tele-medicine just turned the corner and will only accelerate in popularity. __________________ -lg

03-24-2020, 11:21 AM	#2
baygo Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 695 Thanks: 187 Thanked 531 Times in 227 Posts	What if we invest in your proposed fiber infrastructure and 5g wireless comes along?

03-24-2020, 02:16 PM	#4
MAXUM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Kuna ID Posts: 2,755 Thanks: 246 Thanked 1,942 Times in 802 Posts	The challenge to 5G is the fact you need a much denser population of towers\repeaters as the transmit range difference between 4G and 5G is substantial. To be more precise 4G has a range of approximately 10 miles, 5G is about 1000 feet. That will be a significant challenge to 5G making it's way into rural areas, for now. I'm sure as technology develops that may change.

03-25-2020, 08:42 AM	#5
The Real BigGuy Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,108 Thanks: 108 Thanked 410 Times in 244 Posts	I believe there are actually 2 current 5G technologies. Verizon’s has about a 1000 ft radius & ATT’s is longer, in the 1 mile+ range. But you are correct, both way shorter than 4G. The issue for rural areas (most of NH) is subscribers/repeater. There aren’t enough to justify the cost/repeater. I don’t see 5G in non-urban/suburban areas for a long while unless there is significant state/federal subsidies for installation. It just won’t be profitable without them. Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

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03-26-2020, 02:33 PM	#8
The Real BigGuy Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,108 Thanks: 108 Thanked 410 Times in 244 Posts	10, 15 or so years ago there was an idea to put small repeaters, or broadcast points, on every 3rd or 4th telephone pole to eliminate the need for big towers. I think it was a Popular Science thing. Wonder if it’s feasible for 5G Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app