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Old 02-07-2014, 04:35 PM   #1
Alton Lady
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Default New members Posting

I expect some criticism for this post, as I am considered by most to be a "newbie". I am interested in knowing why so many senior members attack new members who post a strong opinion or negative statement.

It is possible that many of the new members have been viewing the forum for some time, only to register when they want to be heard on a subject. Not every new member has an ax to grind, nor are they promoting their own agenda. They may simply have knowledge or information that they truly feel would benefit others.

I was interested in the post regarding how big of a boat would Winni support, as over the years I have seen boats get bigger and bigger. I saw many members making nasty comments to the original poster, accusing them of being a troll, being ostentatious, stupid, etc. Why are these statements allowed if made by senior members, yet an opinion from a junior member are questioned?

I was accused of having my own agenda, even of being affiliated with the owners of Lavinias, simply because I pointed out the mean spirited comments and actions of a competitor. I made my comments because business people like the one in question really anger me. I have been on the receiving end of nasty comments from a competitor who was ill equipped to compete on their strengths. And I made my comments because those practices do nothing to enrich the forums we look to for information.

Being a newbie does not make my opinion of less value than someone who has posted 1000 times. Just because you do not agree with me doesn't mean I am wrong.

Just a little food for thought.
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Old 02-07-2014, 07:42 PM   #2
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Your post is Well Taken. The idea that Junior posters are not encouraged to post negative posts comes from the Restaurant Forum. . My attitude is essentially in agreement with that proposition.

HOWEVER: There is a minority of restaurant owners in the Lakes Region who get their underwear in a bunch..when someone criticizes their restaurant on this forum. Those owners sometimes get Ugly..Then when they get some PUSH BACK ...They Go Away..... The thing to note here is: They are not regular contributors to this forum....

Just an observation... NB
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Old 02-07-2014, 08:22 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alton Lady View Post
I expect some criticism for this post, as I am considered by most to be a "newbie". I am interested in knowing why so many senior members attack new members who post a strong opinion or negative statement.

It is possible that many of the new members have been viewing the forum for some time, only to register when they want to be heard on a subject. Not every new member has an ax to grind, nor are they promoting their own agenda. They may simply have knowledge or information that they truly feel would benefit others.

I was interested in the post regarding how big of a boat would Winni support, as over the years I have seen boats get bigger and bigger. I saw many members making nasty comments to the original poster, accusing them of being a troll, being ostentatious, stupid, etc. Why are these statements allowed if made by senior members, yet an opinion from a junior member are questioned?

I was accused of having my own agenda, even of being affiliated with the owners of Lavinias, simply because I pointed out the mean spirited comments and actions of a competitor. I made my comments because business people like the one in question really anger me. I have been on the receiving end of nasty comments from a competitor who was ill equipped to compete on their strengths. And I made my comments because those practices do nothing to enrich the forums we look to for information.

Being a newbie does not make my opinion of less value than someone who has posted 1000 times. Just because you do not agree with me doesn't mean I am wrong.

Just a little food for thought.
Alton Lady:

Think of it this way: When you join a new group, neighborhood, company, etc. in the real world do you tend to immediately stake out controversial or strong positions? I suspect not. Typically most of us gradually develop relationships with fellow group members and slowly we earn the credibility necessary from our peers to support our positions. Thus, on the forum instantly staking out a controversial position is often met with skepticism and sometimes hostility unless the position is very well supported. Maybe such a response is not justified but I believe it is human nature. Think of it from this perspective and I believe it will make sense to yo: Wouldn't a harsh response usually be thrust upon a new employee who immediately stakes out an extreme position shortly after joining a company. This person would likely be viewed as controversial, difficult, a trouble maker, etc. Does that make sense? The forum is no different.
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Old 02-07-2014, 08:27 PM   #4
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Ahhh....but this is the internet where people can hide and be anonymous.

Last edited by Lakeboater; 12-02-2015 at 02:24 PM. Reason: *auto-correct!
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Old 02-07-2014, 09:23 PM   #5
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Ahhh....but this is the internet where people can hide and be unanimous.
I think you meant "Anonymous"......or maybe you were just "Funnin Us"... NB
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Old 02-07-2014, 09:37 PM   #6
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Default Junior?

Maybe it's time to make everybody a member and get rid of the negative aspects of "junior" and "senior"?


We also need to understand and remember that fingertips say things that would never be uttered face to face and be a little forgiving.

If there is a "thanks" button, why is there not an "inappropriate" button?

Nobody can make this thing perfect. As is, it's very good and very useful. Be thankful, be considerate.
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Old 02-07-2014, 09:54 PM   #7
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Starting conversations in the middle of someone's post seems to be popular here too. I say this because it's happened to me, and I did not appreciate it, either..When addressed, the return was of the 'lighten up' mind set..not in those words, but , close. I am a Senior member and I'm not off topic
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Old 02-08-2014, 07:14 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Descant View Post
If there is a "thanks" button, why is there not an "inappropriate" button?
This forum does have a "Groan" button option that is not enabled.

It's been discussed before and the majority have always been against having a Groan button. See this post from last year:

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...42&postcount=3

Although I always thought a Groan button would introduce even more negativity to the forum I'm always willing to reconsider. Maybe just in the Restaurant forum?
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Old 02-08-2014, 07:27 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Descant View Post
Maybe it's time to make everybody a member and get rid of the negative aspects of "junior" and "senior"?


We also need to understand and remember that fingertips say things that would never be uttered face to face and be a little forgiving.

If there is a "thanks" button, why is there not an "inappropriate" button?

Nobody can make this thing perfect. As is, it's very good and very useful. Be thankful, be considerate.
Descant: I don't believe it makes sense to make everyone a "senior member" since anyone who is willing to put in the time can become a "senior member". It is my belief that trying to make everyone perfectly equal all the time is undermining America. We have become far too politically correct as a country. If you are willing to work hard in America you can get ahead and this includes becoming a "senior member".
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Old 02-08-2014, 07:43 AM   #10
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I feel sorry for Don. It is hard enough to keep a forum going without petty little arguments. I don't see why people can't just have their say and then forget about it. Some people just can't let things go. If you don't like what someone says then just ignore it. Having said that, I don't think a business should be allowed to be constantly trashed. People tend to always blow with the wind and if people are saying bad things more people will says bad things.
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Old 02-08-2014, 08:15 AM   #11
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Restaurant opinions are a little different than for instance size of boats as a businesses livihood can be at stake. A lot of people read a really negative post and say "well I will never go there" . True many of these negative posts do come from new posters but to me that's because they get angry and post to vent . If I found a health issue I would bring to management attention but would be a little cautious about ruining a reputation in public is this was an anomaly . As you may know I have done many restaurant polls and have been critiqued for those but as far as public reviews I always try to be fair and balanced
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Old 02-08-2014, 09:19 AM   #12
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Just like in the real world, first impressions are not always right, but they do matter. Since most of us do not know each other off the forum, you are defined by all your posts. If you make a lot of posts people will get to know you as a person.

Every internet forum that I've been part of has controversial subjects, we had quite a few over the years. Boat size is a hot button topic, so my skeptic alarm went off.

If you come in and make five posts on a controversial subject and never post again, I don't really understand you as a person.

As for chefs, titles don't cook and run restaurants, neither do forum posts. I can't judge the food of the two recent chefs by their posts but I did get a first impression of them as people.

Alton Lady stick around and let us get to know you.
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Old 02-08-2014, 09:40 AM   #13
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senior Vs junior member? Elitism at it highest. complete nonsense
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Old 02-08-2014, 10:28 AM   #14
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senior Vs junior member? Elitism at it highest. complete nonsense
Lighten up folks. It's a feature of the forum software used, not specific to this forum. For some types of forums, it's good to know whether someone has experience with the forum content.

Overall, web forums tend toward the negative as, unfortunately, people tend to react emotionally to posts without pause, and often in a way they would never think of in person.

Also, like any society group, there are always those who will speak their minds, whether wanted or not, and tend to be negative. Unfortunately, they tend to jump in on all topics. As in society, and thankfully, while vocal, they are usually a small minority of the overall good group of people who post or lurk here.

The best way to stop the negativity is for each member to always pause and ask before posting,
  • Would I say it this way to the person if we were face-to-face?
  • Is this really going to add value to the discussion?
  • Will my post actauly change anyones mind?
  • For this forum in particular, is the topic REALLY realted to the Lakes Region?

If the answer to any of these is "no", rethink your post.
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Old 02-08-2014, 11:06 AM   #15
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Could someone tell me how a person's status changes from Jr member to member to Sr member? It doesn't seem to go by join date/time.
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Old 02-08-2014, 11:26 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by AmantiDelLago View Post
Could someone tell me how a person's status changes from Jr member to member to Sr member? It doesn't seem to go by join date/time.
I believe your status is simply based upon the number of post's you've made. I'm not sure where the threshold is for the switch from junior to senior. I do know there is no "Elitism" involved in ones status, it's simply a measure of how active and vocal one has been in forum participation in the past.
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Old 02-08-2014, 11:49 AM   #17
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Default Here you go...

Posts
0-19 Junior Member
20-49 Member
50+ Senior Member


Webmaster post in another forum.
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Old 02-08-2014, 12:08 PM   #18
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Thank you. That seems simple.
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Old 02-08-2014, 12:19 PM   #19
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Default My thoughts

When someone uses the forum to make a very negative post I think it is very hard to evaluate what is really going on. Some people have a hot button for certain things or are thin skinned. Sometimes a good establishment had a bad moment, like that never happens to anyone. And there is always the other side of the story, often unknown. When someone is very clearly ANGRY about a situation I wonder how much of their evaluation is just.

So, to somewhat figure it all out it helps if you know something about the person posting the complaint. If they are usually a reasonable and thoughtful poster then you give more consideration to what they are saying. In this case, "senior" vs. "junior" DOES make a difference. Someone joining the forum and using their first posts to flame leaves a bad taste in my mouth. That doesn't mean they are wrong, but they better prove their case and not just be yelling about it. Further, if the only reason they are here is to complain, well...the forum is about so much more than that.

I do agree that getting nasty with the new poster is equally pointless. I will question their information and their conclusions but try not to get personally insulting. But just like there are different types of junior posters there are different types of senior posters as well.
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Old 02-08-2014, 01:37 PM   #20
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NoBozo, you are correct. Was using my phone and it must of corrected me. Thanks.
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Old 02-08-2014, 08:25 PM   #21
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Alton Lady,

Look at it this way, at the time of my post, you've made only 14 posts, but have been thanked 25 times. To me this means a lot more than how many posts you've made.

I'm still a relative newbie here too. I am starting to notice that certain topics are controversial here. I guess it just takes time to get the feel of this place.

I've also noticed that some of the posts in the Restaurant forum get too, well, 'intense' for me. So I've stayed out of most of them. I guess people don't like honest reviews or opinions there unless they are 'positive'.

Thanks for pointing out your observations.
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Old 02-09-2014, 01:42 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merrymeeting View Post
It's a feature of the forum software used, not specific to this forum. For some types of forums, it's good to know whether someone has experience with the forum content.
Member "status" or, more particularly, number of posts, doesn't necessarily give you an accurate idea if someone has "experience with the forum content," since it's only a measure of what someone has written, and not what they have read.
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Old 02-09-2014, 01:57 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by TMI Guy View Post
Member "status" or, more particularly, number of posts, doesn't necessarily give you an accurate idea if someone has "experience with the forum content," since it's only a measure of what someone has written, and not what they have read.
If you have been around the forum enough, you will know who is posting to up their count, and who is posting quality content
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Old 02-09-2014, 02:57 PM   #24
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If you have been around the forum enough, you will know who is posting to up their count, and who is posting quality content
It's a sad day when someone is writing posts just to " Up their count." Honestly, get a life, already!
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Old 02-09-2014, 05:07 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by secondcurve View Post
Alton Lady:

Think of it this way: When you join a new group, neighborhood, company, etc. in the real world do you tend to immediately stake out controversial or strong positions? I suspect not. Typically most of us gradually develop relationships with fellow group members and slowly we earn the credibility necessary from our peers to support our positions. Thus, on the forum instantly staking out a controversial position is often met with skepticism and sometimes hostility unless the position is very well supported. Maybe such a response is not justified but I believe it is human nature. Think of it from this perspective and I believe it will make sense to yo: Wouldn't a harsh response usually be thrust upon a new employee who immediately stakes out an extreme position shortly after joining a company. This person would likely be viewed as controversial, difficult, a trouble maker, etc. Does that make sense? The forum is no different.
I do enjoy a good discussion/debate, and wouldn't let a new group, acquaintance or job stop me from voicing my opinion, especially when I believe someone has been wronged. I guess it is all in the approach. Our opinions all have value, but how we present them, hopefully with class and consideration for others, is important.

Thank you for your response.
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Old 02-09-2014, 05:13 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by secondcurve View Post
Descant: I don't believe it makes sense to make everyone a "senior member" since anyone who is willing to put in the time can become a "senior member". It is my belief that trying to make everyone perfectly equal all the time is undermining America. We have become far too politically correct as a country. If you are willing to work hard in America you can get ahead and this includes becoming a "senior member".
For some reason my thanks button tends to disappear, so Thank You for your comments!
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Old 02-09-2014, 05:16 PM   #27
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Default Thank you button is AWOL

I seem to keep losing the ability to thank posters, so please all accept my thanks for responding. And thank you for taking it easy on this "newbie"!
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Old 02-09-2014, 05:19 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by webmaster View Post
Although I always thought a Groan button would introduce even more negativity to the forum I'm always willing to reconsider. Maybe just in the Restaurant forum?
I think that's a great idea and if it does well maybe it could be moved on to other forum topics.... not so good enable it.
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Old 02-09-2014, 05:20 PM   #29
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Default One of the problems with a forum...

When we sit around a table and discuss something, those involved in the conversation have many cues as to what the speaker means, besides just the words.

With written words, we do not have voice inflections, smiles or frowns or other facial expressions, shrugs of shoulders, laughs, giggles, hand gestures; we only get to read the written word(s). Even the use of smilies are often missed or misinterpreted. (What the heck does Upthesaukee mean by that?) (Hmmmm, my secret, I guess! )

Hope to see you around town, Alton Lady.
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Old 02-09-2014, 07:41 PM   #30
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Alton Lady, a couple more thank you post and you won't be a Jr member anymore!
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Old 02-10-2014, 12:32 PM   #31
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if facebook had dislikes, they would probably outnumber the likes.
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Old 02-10-2014, 05:49 PM   #32
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For some reason my thanks button tends to disappear, so Thank You for your comments!
I think you can only thanks 5 posts a a day
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Old 02-10-2014, 05:55 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upthesaukee View Post
When we sit around a table and discuss something, those involved in the conversation have many cues as to what the speaker means, besides just the words.

With written words, we do not have voice inflections, smiles or frowns or other facial expressions, shrugs of shoulders, laughs, giggles, hand gestures; we only get to read the written word(s). Even the use of smilies are often missed or misinterpreted. (What the heck does Upthesaukee mean by that?) (Hmmmm, my secret, I guess! )

Hope to see you around town, Alton Lady.
This IDEA keeps coming up. Just a reminder..People have been corresponding by mail....via letters..in print..handwriting..for Centuries. WHY would the internet be any different.

Is it because internet is INSTANT and people don't take the time to THINK..before responding.................NB

PS: In those OLD days we never had Smiley Faces...
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Old 02-10-2014, 06:31 PM   #34
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Talking mea culpa

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Originally Posted by Chaselady View Post
It's a sad day when someone is writing posts just to " Up their count." Honestly, get a life, already!
I hate to admit that - being so close to that 50 post mark into "senior member", I could be tempted to do this...But now, I'll have to be careful..
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Old 02-10-2014, 06:54 PM   #35
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Default Several things

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoBozo View Post
This IDEA keeps coming up. Just a reminder..People have been corresponding by mail....via letters..in print..handwriting..for Centuries. WHY would the internet be any different.

Is it because internet is INSTANT and people don't take the time to THINK..before responding.................NB

PS: In those OLD days we never had Smiley Faces...
The internet is instant gratification, or indignation, or consternation... type what you want, and hit the "enter" button.... bingo it is gone from your keyboard and on that Wide World Web for all to see.

User names help people to say things they may not always say if they had to hang their names on each posting. Think back to "letters to the editor" and almost all were signed with the writer's name (even today).

Entitlement... I belong to a website, or a forum, and therefore I can say what I want.

Lack of respect: I see this on this forum, and some others, but I also see it away from forums. I do not agree with some of the things that get posted on our forums, and I may post a differing opinion, but I do try not to drag out my disagreement. Maybe not all the time, but I sure hope I do most of the time. Old saying: We will just have to agree to disagree. In the real world rather than the written world, face to face, I would hope that we can shake hands and move on.
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Old 02-10-2014, 07:44 PM   #36
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Lack of respect: I see this on this forum, and some others, but I also see it away from forums. I do not agree with some of the things that get posted on our forums, and I may post a differing opinion, but I do try not to drag out my disagreement. Maybe not all the time, but I sure hope I do most of the time. Old saying: We will just have to agree to disagree. In the real world rather than the written world, face to face, I would hope that we can shake hands and move on.
I guess I am not sure if you are just venting in general... Or are targeting me. If the latter is the case..that's fine. Everyone has their opinions. I guess i just don't understand your paragraph above. NB
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Old 02-10-2014, 08:35 PM   #37
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I guess I am not sure if you are just venting in general... Or are targeting me. If the latter is the case..that's fine. Everyone has their opinions. I guess i just don't understand your paragraph above. NB
Not even venting, NB. Or targeting you.

Over the years on the forum, I have seen more disrespect than I remember when I first came on board.

I guess what I was trying to say, and I did type and retype, and erase, and retype, is that, in my humble opinion (and I am not on a rant here either ), is that while we (all members of the Forum) may not agree on all things, we should be able to state our opinions and then move on... agree to disagree.

Too often opinions are picked apart as facts, instead of just accepting that our opinions may, and often do, differ from others.

Sorry if you felt that I was directing any criticism at you...not the case. Simply was offering an opinion as to why written communication may not be the easiest to read and understand nowadays.
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Old 02-11-2014, 08:42 AM   #38
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PS: In those OLD days we never had Smiley Faces...
I don't know about that NB, my Aunt 87 years young has been drawing smiley faces on her letters and cards for as many years as I can remember.
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:09 AM   #39
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Just a little info I found on some early smiley faces:

The WMCA 1962 sweatshirt.
The smiley was first introduced to popular culture as part of a promotion by New York radio station WMCA beginning in 1962. Listeners who answered their phone "WMCA Good Guys!" were rewarded with a "WMCA good guys" sweatshirt that incorporated a happy face into its design. Thousands of these sweatshirts were given away.[4][5][6]The WMCA smiley was yellow with black dots as eyes, but it had a slightly crooked smile instead of a full smile, and no creases in the mouth.[6]
In 1963, Harvey Ball, an American commercial artist, was employed by State Mutual Life Assurance Company of Worcester (now known as Hanover Insurance) to create a happy face to raise the morale of the employees. Ball created the design in ten minutes and was paid $45 (equivalent to $330 USD in 2012 currency). His rendition, with bright yellow background, dark oval eyes, full smile and creases at the sides of the mouth,[6]was imprinted on more than fifty million buttons and was familiar around the world. The design is so simple that it is certain that similar versions were produced before 1963, including those cited above. However, Ballís rendition, as described here, has become the most iconic version.
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Old 02-16-2014, 08:53 PM   #40
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Just checked mine and I have 27 posts and am still a Junior Member... Have been a member for quite a while, since 09/2005 as well... Trying to figure out how to change my Junior member status as well as not be moderated on everything I post (forum or classified)... Hoping to become a more active contributor... This is a great thread!!! Thanks to all for the various insight...
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Old 02-17-2014, 02:44 PM   #41
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You are now a member.
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Old 02-17-2014, 04:21 PM   #42
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You are now a member.

... to set up the ballot box and vote on him. So far, he done good, thus he got promoted!!!!!
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