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Old 05-01-2023, 09:16 PM   #1
Downeast
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Exclamation Navionics LakeVu Winnipesaukee Problem!!

Garmin "Navionics" LakeVu problem for Lake Winnipesaukee
Lake Winnipesaukee boaters, please be aware Garmin LakeVu charts, a Navionics cartography chapter, formerly known as "inland lakes and rivers" or "Lakes Detail" etc, has released an update sometime in the summer of 2022.

Photos below show general nav markers are NOT as they once appeared in the previous versions.

Please submit a chart error report with Garmin here:

https://support.garmin.com/en-US/nav...v7xfWdLi58LR9/

Only if more users bring this to their attention, will it expedite a chart update.

LakeVu, by Navionics, now owned by Garmin, is NOT the same as the free "Navionics" app on your phone. Please be aware this is no fault to your service provider, but is an issue with the cartography itself.

If you have a previous version of LakeVu, DO NOT UPDATE via active captain as I am not certain you will be allow to back rev.


Until there is a fix, there are no decent charts available for use with Garmin that have auto route guidance.

Raymarine Lighthouse charts do not cover the lake nearly as well as LakeVu did. Bizer will not work with new model Garmin displays. Furthermore, Bizer is owned by C-MAP.

Cue the Jeopardy music while we wait.. or file a report with detailed screen shots and we might see an update faster.

Currently, only channel markers and lighted bouys are displayed correctly on the latest LakeVu, of which, is v23.xx however traditional spar makers are depicted without color and without proper information under 'info'. Traditional spar markers are identified as "beacons"

Firmware and chart updates do not fix the issue nor is there a setting on the display. it is within the recent versions of Navionics LakeVu discovered late summer 2022.

Pre LakeVu G3 V22.xx appear to be ok, its only 23.xx that has the issue!

SEND IN YOUR REPORTS!
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Old 05-09-2023, 11:05 AM   #2
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Default Garmin chart problems Navaids don't show color for Winnipesaukee

I've been in communications with Garmin over this issue since last August. Pinging them periodically (almost monthly), they keep telling me that the fix is in process, but they can't tell me a timeline of when it will be released.

Their latest info as of March was this:
Quote:
I have checked with our quality team and it has been escalated to the engineers as it is related to the display of the buoy icon rather than the characteristics of the buoy information. This is a bit of a longer process to update; hence the delay.
I know of TWO other Winnipesaukee boaters that have this same issue, @Downeast this makes at least four of us! I'm sure everyone has this issue, but perhaps they just choose to ignore it?

Basically, they removed the Red Top/Black Top coloring for the Navaids on the lake. Now you only get to see a white rectangle! To me and others this is a hazard for navigation as you can't decide which side of a marker to pass safely.

The Garmin charts do show some solid red and solid black markers, but do not properly display the red-top and black-top markers. We all know how important this information is!

If you zoom in on this via the Garmin map viewer you can see the issue clearly:
https://maps.garmin.com/en-US/marine/?key=drv0p1mwvmxu

Ironically if you look at the same area via the Navionics chart of the same area, but choose a non Garmin chart then the NavAids all look correct:
https://webapp.navionics.com/?lang=e...key=uxbiGdxyrL

Attached are two photos to highlight the issue if you have difficulty using the chart viewer.

I also asked them to try to make the "suggested route" line more obvious as it gets lost in the clutter of depth lines, etc.

In talking to Garmin if you agree with this problem, submit a problem report and include the use the issue code CER-2015 so that they will know that many others are having this same issue.

Now that Navionics is handling the charts for Garmin, after reporting the issue to Garmin, it gets forwarded to Navionics.

Here is the note from the Navionics Product Support Specialist.

Quote:
A CER report can be made through our online form - https://supportforms.garmin.com/en-U...-error-report/ and in the description they can reference CER-2015 so we can link them together but it is not necessary for the processing. If they don't want to fill out the online form, an email can be sent to help@navionics.com with their product details and we will happily create a new CER for them. Just have them reference CER-2015 in their email.
And further clarification on what CER-2015 is requesting as of March 9, 2023:
Quote:
Unfortunately I have no time-frame for when it is going to be released. The icon display is the item being worked on to show the red top or black top at a glance instead of having to go into the details of the buoy to find out that information.

I can certainly suggest a different coloring for the recommended tracks in the area instead of being a black dotted line with black depth lines. I'll submit the form and you should receive the separate email letting you know it is submitted. Those are sent to the engineering team directly and I won't have access to that particular suggestion but you should have some information on how to respond/request contact.
I'll add that you only get ONE free update from Garmin on the chart within a year of purchase of your device! If you issue this bug report (including CER-2015) as a hazard to navigation to Garmin, I'm guessing that you can request a free updated chart when they fix the issue. When I called into the Garmin support line and discussed this with the Garmin support person, they made a note in my account to be sure I will receive the updated fixed chart at no charge, even if my "one free update" had expired (you must update the one free chart within a year of purchase).

This should probably be under the general "Boating" forum versus Boat Repairs and Maintenance, but that's only my opinion! LOL
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Old 05-09-2023, 03:09 PM   #3
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Default Clutter

I agree with Rich's comment about "recommended course" lines need to be better distinguished from bottom Contour lines. For my money, I'd love to see a layered approach so I could add or subtract features I want/don't want to see. The asterisks for rocks and the notation about rocky area, etc would be nice to add or subtract along with the bottom contour lines. ASfter planning, I don't need to have bridge clearance info printed out. The (excessive) detail is nice when I'm planning on a stable surface, but the clutter makes the chart or screen difficult to read when the boat is moving up/down/sideways. I guess, if I had a multi-function display, I could switch from chart to radar and back?
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Old 05-27-2023, 09:05 PM   #4
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I am quite surprised this observation has not struck a chord. 1000+ reads and no movement??

I will say, if you're an installer and your client comes back to you and say's where are my markers?, don't say I didn't warn you.

Ive Been there and it not a fun time..... From a $700 7" Echomap to a $3500 12" GPSmap, it's all the same chart. Its discouraging when the free app is more useful
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Old 05-31-2023, 11:35 AM   #5
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I'm surprised that there are not more Garmin users seeing this. Unless they have an older chart without the problem? Or just don't care?

FYI, there is a 'duplicate' thread here on this same issue:
https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...d.php?p=383029
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Old 05-31-2023, 01:38 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
I'm surprised that there are not more Garmin users seeing this. Unless they have an older chart without the problem? Or just don't care?

FYI, there is a 'duplicate' thread here on this same issue:
https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...d.php?p=383029
Honestly, I don't currently have the bandwidth to think about it right now. We've got a DV57 (I think) from 2014 that we've used without an issue.

My philosophy is that rocks don't move and the worst that can happen is we're over-cautious.

For example, last year a marker was removed that obviously will still be on our mapóit won't hurt avoiding the "marker" (other than looking silly, maybe?!).

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Old 05-31-2023, 09:45 PM   #7
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Thank you Downeast, I did not do the up date when it asked me to this year,still running last years chart. Every time I log on itís asking me to update, not gonna do it!
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Old 06-01-2023, 10:36 AM   #8
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Default Same issue on Simrad

I got a new boat this season with Simrad evo3 units. Built-in charts were junk, so I ordered the Navionics Platinum+ U.S. East card. Installed it last weekend, to discover what I think is the same bug being reported by others on Garmin units.

White spar buoys with red/black tips are ALL marked the same. In my case, all solid black (looks like others are seeing them solid white on the Garmin rendering).

Navionics web app has them correct:
https://share.getcloudapp.com/mXuGZeE2

But my Simrad display does not differentiate between them:
https://share.getcloudapp.com/bLuZ8EJ4

I've emailed help@navionics.com, looking for a Simrad support channel now, as I'm a bit worried Nav will point fingers at Simrad, claiming it's a rendering problem in their software given that it looks correct on the official web chart.

Very frustrating, black/red distinction is a critical safety issue on Winni.
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Old 06-01-2023, 11:51 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WillyK View Post
I got a new boat this season with Simrad evo3 units. Built-in charts were junk, so I ordered the Navionics Platinum+ U.S. East card. Installed it last weekend, to discover what I think is the same bug being reported by others on Garmin units.

White spar buoys with red/black tips are ALL marked the same. In my case, all solid black (looks like others are seeing them solid white on the Garmin rendering).

Navionics web app has them correct:
https://share.getcloudapp.com/mXuGZeE2

But my Simrad display does not differentiate between them:
https://share.getcloudapp.com/bLuZ8EJ4

I've emailed help@navionics.com, looking for a Simrad support channel now, as I'm a bit worried Nav will point fingers at Simrad, claiming it's a rendering problem in their software given that it looks correct on the official web chart.

Very frustrating, black/red distinction is a critical safety issue on Winni.
$249 card is now less useful than the v22.xx. Garmin has us right where they want us. C'mon Raymarine, psssst here is your chance, to reinvent the Dragonfly. not everyone needs an MFD !
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Old 06-02-2023, 03:30 PM   #10
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I submitted a bug report to this URL, if others want to do the same:
https://supportforms.garmin.com/en-U...-error-report/

(that was the request from the Navionics support team, probably just passing the buck, but we'll see).
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Old 06-08-2023, 07:17 AM   #11
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I use my garmin charts and to be honest I don't care what the colors are. As long as the depth charts are correct and the buoy locations are too, I'm good.
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Old 06-08-2023, 08:58 AM   #12
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Here's another example.

So you're on the lake, perhaps the sun is in your eyes, or the lighting is such that you can't see the colors clearly on the navaids. Perhaps you're in an area where you don't travel often.

So you glance at your Garmin to make an informed decision on which way to pass the markers that you can see coming up ahead.

Here's what you see on your display, which side of these markers do you pass?

Yes of course, check your paper chart, know where you are, use your compass, stop if needed, but the Garmin GPS should have been helpful here, instead of useless or confusing.
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Old 06-08-2023, 09:04 AM   #13
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Here is essentially the same area of the same chart in the Navionics web viewer.

The markers are much more visible (black rectangles) and have a color square on top of them to show red-top vs black-top type of navaids to indicate which side is safe passage.

It's a simple change, and the information used to be on the Garmin charts. So we're trying to get them to fix this issue. They seem to be listening, but it's taking some time to get the results published.

I also asked them to make the 'suggested route' lines a bit easier to see, perhaps a different color or make the line thicker as the current implementation tends to get lost among the depth contour lines.
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Old 06-08-2023, 11:15 AM   #14
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I just follow the safe passage lines that go between all the markers on my Garmin. Perfect!

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Old 06-08-2023, 12:58 PM   #15
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That chart doesn't look good. Much prefer the c-map chip that I think was based off of Bizer's chart. On a Standard Horizon chart plotter.


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Old 06-08-2023, 01:44 PM   #16
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And this is a screen shot of the same area on the Navonics chart on my I Phone. Much easier to visualize and navigate.
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Old 06-09-2023, 12:13 AM   #17
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To Garmin, Winnipesaukee is merely a pond in the woods.

I will be shocked if they, formerly Navionics, releases an update before the end of the year, after all, it's only been 9 months since the first CER was submitted lol
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Old 08-26-2023, 07:31 AM   #18
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Default An option for you

I have had the same issue with my Garmin 8612xsv Unit. The display (three years old) came with Blue Chart g3+LakeVug3 Built-in. The map was fine the first year I had it but after an update all of the black and red went to a pencil thin outline, and some markers are missing all together. My subscription expired, and while I was looking into renewing the subscription, I came across another chart available to download and install instead. The renew subscription cost was $99.99, verses the cost of the new chart which was $149.99. I purchased the new chart and the markers are Black and Red as they should be. The new chart is [B]Canada, Alaska, & Great Lakes-Lakes, Rivers and Coastal MarineÖ.Garmin Navionics+ (NSUSOO4R).

I downloaded the new chart using Garmin Active Captain app. Itís an option if you donít want to wait until Garmin fixes the bad chart, which may be never.

I did however notify Garmin per the recommendation of the previous post.
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Old 08-26-2023, 07:58 AM   #19
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Thanks for the tip! I may check it out.

I see they have a US East, I wonder why you chose the one that includes Canada and less of the US East coast?

Do you know when this chart was last updated?

I wonder if they publish an update if it will switch to the new style which has the problem?

Can I ask where are you are located on the lake, perhaps I can stop by to see your chart myself?
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Old 08-28-2023, 12:52 PM   #20
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I spoke with Garmin Support today about this. After some discussion, I was able to get them to offer me a 20% discount on a new chart, considering that I've been waiting over a year for them to update the built in chart. They said if the new chart wouldn't work for me, I could ask for a refund (I assume they would disable the chart if I had a refund).

So I decided to try the NSUS001L chart. This covers the entire US & Coastal Canada - Plus US Inland Lakes, Rivers and US Coast. It's only a bit more money (but not with the discount), and has more useful information for me, as I'm not sure if I'd ever be boating on the inland Canada waterways.

For some reason he recommended the SD card version vs the download version. I'll report back after I receive it on how I like it. It will be nice having the entire US available, as at the moment I use this on my SeaDoo. If it works, perhaps I'll update my chartplotter on my boat also.

I'm a bit disappointed in that Garmin is not actively updating the built in G3 chart, especially with something as important as NavAid visibility! It's been over a year since my first problem report on this. They keep saying "it's coming" but who knows if it will ever arrive?!
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Old 09-03-2023, 08:30 AM   #21
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I'm only two days into using the new Navionics+ chart on my Garmin, but it seems to be a definate improvment over the Garmin G3 LakeVu chart!!

See the attached photo, you can see all the black-top and red-top navaids. They all seem to be there! If anyone wants to see a closer look at a certain part of the lake, let me know and I can try to post a screen shot.

I'm guessing that Garmin will phase out their G3 charts. If you look at their new chartplotter displays on their website, you will notice that the newer versions come with Navionics+ instead of their Bluechart G3 charting.

I'm further guessing that they won't update the current G3 charts to 'fix' this issue, but won't admit it to us.

I chose to purchase the Navionics+ 'U.S. & Coastal Canada - Lakes, Rivers and Coastal Marine Charts' NSUS001L (currently $199 retail). This covers the entire USA, so if I ever bring my PWC anywhere in the USA I'm covered. There is a "USA East" NSUS007R that is less expensive version (currently $149 retail) that covers part of the east coast (including our lake) if you know you will never travel south of South Carolina, this or the previous mentioned chart may be an option for you. I understand that Garmin sometimes has these on sale at different times of the year (perhaps March?).

Summary: It looks like we need to purchase the Navionics+ chart to get usable Navaids for inland waters of NH. The Garmin G3 charts in their updated form are not useful for navigation because the visual indication for red-top vs black-top navaids are missing.
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