Lawns and Lake Weeds

[aopel]

I am seeing more and more bright green lawns that go right down to the lake. I am also seeing weeds in places that I have never seen them in my 45 years on the lake. The CSPA of 2008 outlaws ANY use of fertilizer within 25 feet of the lake, as well as any herbicides and pesticides. Clearly, you cannot maintain these lawns without using all of the above.

Does anyone know who is responsible for enforcing existing laws and if there are any cases where homeowners have been fined? Also, what groups are working to educate homeowners about their legal and ethical responsibilities of lakefront stewardship?

I would like to see an end of the suburbanization of the lakefront and the ensuing decline in water quality that comes with it. The laws are in place, if only we had enforcement.

It would be a shame to see the lake become one big Smith Cove just so McMansion owners can have a green lawn.

Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated.

[jrc]

I think someone will have to catch them in the act. I'll guess this falls under the responsibilty of the DES.

If you look at some of the more recent lawns, you will see a narrow buffer (25 feet ?) of natural land between the lawn and the shore. So inland of that buffer, lawn owners may feel like they can use fertilizers etc. I don't know the law.

There are people touting natural lawn teatments. I don't know if they are effective or legal for use in a wetlands buffer. In Hollis, The wetlands buffer is more than a 100 feet and my lawn stops well before that, so I load it up with the good stuff, looks like a golf course. At my marina at the lake, the lawn areas are within a few feet of the lake, so we just mow the weeds down, at least it's green.

[Rattlesnake Guy]

I have no opinion on if folks are fertilizing near the lake but I can testify that I have not fertilized my lawn back home in the 14 years we have lived there and the grass can be so green and thick in areas that it is difficult to cut in one mowing. One thing you can say about lake front lawns is the owner does have plenty of water available for watering. If the soil was ideal and the lighting conditions great, you could get a pretty green lawn without fertilizer.

[tis]

I agree with RG. I think just the fact that there is a lot of water makes the lawns very happy. You can use organic fertilizer by the lake, but it may have to be applied by a licensed person.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by aopel

"...I am seeing more and more bright green lawns that go right down to the lake..."

IMHO, it's what you don't see that is more sinister.

My Dad mows and fertilizes a green, grassy four acres of lawn ¼-mile from the lake. His sloping lawn puts his rain-runoff to his neighbor's yard, which is nearly six acres of emerald-green lawn: It's only a stone's throw from both lawns to the lake.

As you travel into the hinterlands of the Winnipesaukee Basin, even more clearings are added that require fertilizer.

Originally Posted by aopel

"...I am also seeing weeds in places that I have never seen them in my 45 years on the lake..."

Last year, Mirror Lake—which drains into Lake Winnipesaukee—had the Town of Tuftonboro posting "No Drinking" and "No Swimming" signs due to a blue-green algae bloom. (A poison to man and beast—worse than E. coli—which frequently closes entire beaches in the summer).

I think the greater problem is algae of all types rather than just weeds.

This site quotes a water clarity of 23-feet for Lake Winnipesaukee. With a major 100-acre bulldozing at my back door recently, I couldn't find my mooring block in only 15-feet of water.

Originally Posted by aopel

"...I would like to see an end of the suburbanization of the lakefront and the ensuing decline in water quality that comes with it. The laws are in place, if only we had enforcement...Does anyone know who is responsible for enforcing existing laws and if there are any cases where homeowners have been fined...?"

1) I suspect that there is little meaningful enforcement.

2) Every Autumn, I watch as "something" is hand-cast over that 25-foot lakefront space by local lawn-maintenance guys: whatever it is, it's too easily broadcast to be "just seeds".

3) If you look at Rattlesnake Island any boating day, you'll see large expanses of emerald-green lawns that just replaced forest. Those lawns are in front of brand-new cottages!

4) New Hampshire prefers that its citizens address issues such as this voluntarily. The problem is greater than we can know, however, as "ridge-development" has started to appear all around the Winnipesaukee Basin.

"Mother Great-Spirit" sequestered 30,000 years-worth of nitrogen-rich soil—and a whole lot of that is headed downhill to the Big Lake.

Originally Posted by jrc

"...The wetlands buffer is more than a 100 feet and my lawn stops well before that, so I load it up with the good stuff, looks like a golf course..."

A golf course is good? Isn't "good stuff" what draws Canada Geese—and a whole set of new problems?

(Issues, I meant).

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy

"...One thing you can say about lake front lawns is the owner does have plenty of water available for watering..."

In places where water is bought at a "dear" price, emerald-lawns have been replaced with "xeriscaping", or minimal-maintenance yards.

My retired BIL in Sacramento just dug up his front lawn last week and replaced it with river rock. To his new planters, he added the "natives" that grow in the desert terrain surrounding his huge "Dell-Webb" development. In his case, it's not so much to be "Green", but to save on the expense at the water meter.

We absolutely need the same native plantings—and there are some around.

Having "plenty of water", however, just may be the curse we don't need.

[jrc]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

...blah...blah...blah...

1) I suspect that there is little meaningful enforcement.

2) Every Autumn, I watch as "something" is hand-cast over that 25-foot lakefront space by local lawn-maintenance guys: whatever it is, it's too easily broadcast to be "just seeds".

blah...blah...blah...

Stop talking about it and do something:

http://des.nh.gov/organization/commi..._complaint.htm

[ACutAbove]

Originally Posted by jrc

I think someone will have to catch them in the act. I'll guess this falls under the responsibilty of the DES.

If you look at some of the more recent lawns, you will see a narrow buffer (25 feet ?) of natural land between the lawn and the shore. So inland of that buffer, lawn owners may feel like they can use fertilizers etc. I don't know the law.

There are people touting natural lawn teatments. I don't know if they are effective or legal for use in a wetlands buffer. In Hollis, The wetlands buffer is more than a 100 feet and my lawn stops well before that, so I load it up with the good stuff, looks like a golf course. At my marina at the lake, the lawn areas are within a few feet of the lake, so we just mow the weeds down, at least it's green.

There are very effective methods of getting a nice green , and semi weed free lawn. Just because someone has a nice lawn do not automaticly assume that they are useing something that is not allowed with in the 25 ft buffer.
There is plenty of information out there and companies useing good methods of makeing nice lawns with out the chemicals that are commonly associated with it.
Take a look into the woods someday, nobody fertilizes out there and everything is green. Mothernature has a way of doing that. You just need to know how to help her along in your own yard, or hire someone that does.
I am not saying you are going to have the best lawn in the neighborhood, but you will have something you can be proud of and feel good about.

[fatlazyless]

The Lowe's-Gilford has 2' x 5' rolls of beautifull green grass, sod for $4.98 each. Each roll weighs about 60-lbs. They got four big, fresh pallets in on Friday afternoon, and today Monday, it's probably all sold out. It was selling fast, yesterday!

Just think of the possibilities? How about soding your dock and turning it into a living, green-grass dock.........? Isn't it time for a shaggy, grassy dock?

[dpg]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

The Lowe's-Gilford has 2' x 5' rolls of beautifull green grass, sod for $4.98 each. Each roll weighs about 60-lbs. They got four big, fresh pallets in on Friday afternoon, and today Monday, it's probably all sold out. It was selling fast, yesterday!

Just think of the possibilities? How about soding your dock and turning it into a living, green-grass dock.........? Isn't it time for a shaggy, grassy dock?

Sod looks awesome when just put down but will develop weeds like anything else without chemicals. I've used it in mass, Sod is very high maintenance if you do not want it browning on you. Nothing "organic" will kill weeds, the idea behind organic programs is to thicken up your lawn so much it smothers out weeds.

[wildwoodfam]

Originally Posted by dpg

Nothing "organic" will kill weeds, the idea behind organic programs is to thicken up your lawn so much it smothers out weeds.

There are "organic" weed killers - for broadleaf weeds, etc... Check out one of the organic gardening sites, or ask an organic gardening dealer locally.

Here is one of many sites for information: http://safelawns.org/

[Island Girl]

From a distance my place looks like it has a lush green lawn to the lake. It is really a mass of green growing things highly lubricated by too much water that runs through many of the lots on my part of Rattlesnake Island. I don't think it has ever been brown. I have never put anything on it.

I have often wondered how someone gets weed free grass near the lake. I would prefer grass to the weeds!

IG

[ApS]

Originally Posted by ACutAbove

"...Take a look into the woods someday, nobody fertilizes out there and everything is green. Mothernature has a way of doing that. You just need to know how to help her along in your own yard, or hire someone that does..."

Not every acre of Mother Nature's woods is green; moreover, New Hampshire's least-damaged lakes are surrounded by (and protected by) the most desirable of softwood trees, Red Pines and White Pines.

A portion of New Hampshire's "Mother-Nature-woods" is disappearing at some percentage of "acres-per-second" rate.

(Pardon the expression).

BTW: I DO look into the woods every day—and it's my own woods!

Originally Posted by ACutAbove

"...I am not saying you are going to have the best lawn in the neighborhood, but you will have something you can be proud of and feel good about..."

IMO, "Duck Itch" has invaded Lake Winnipesaukee's clear waters due to fertilized lawns resulting from the use of any fertilizer product.

Lake Winnipesaukee's remaining purity/clarity would be best-off without lawns altogether. (IMNSHO).

Originally Posted by jrc

"...Stop talking about it and do something:http://des.nh.gov/organization/commi..._complaint.htm

Believe me, DES is sick of my complaints. My complaint of diesel fuel pouring from a barge resulted in a response from a "Deputy" DES official, who stated, "Let us know when it happens again". Whereupon, I had my neighbor—also affected—call the following day.

He got, "Let us know when it happens again".

The very last person I spoke with at DES—regarding many cubic-yards of soil being washed into the lake—said, and I quote:

"To bake a cake, one has to break some eggs".

Originally Posted by Island Girl

"...I have often wondered how someone gets weed free grass near the lake. I would prefer grass to the weeds...!"

Among my wooded understory are dozens of "Jack-in-the-Pulpit", "Jewel-Weed", and "Pink Lady Slipper"........"weeds".........

The Jack-in-the-Pulpit "weed" here:



The "Jewel-weed" here:



"Pink Lady Slipper"....."weed", here:



And—I forgot—the "Ghost ....Flower" weed—here:




My last point, and my rant is over:

Although it's finally in the process of finally being repaired right now, a ½-acre-frontage landslide into the lake has been taking place not too far from me. (The landslide directly faces Rattlesnake Island's SE shore, and is being repaired not soon-enough).

When (...If...) it ever gets sunny again, I'll take photos to compare with my other photos showing this landslide's progress over the last ten years.

[tis]

Do you know why it has taken them so long to fix that, APS? Permits?

[fatlazyless]

...well...looks like the Gilford Lowe's got sold out again of their weekly, Friday, shipment of 2' x 5', $4.98 rolls of Kentucky blue grass sod...the stuff comes in on Friday and is all sold by Monday...must be this weather which is excellent for sodding...where's it all going?....if I see any 18' bowriders loaded up with sod and headed for Bear Island...do I call the DES sod patrol?...with all this here rain ya know...things are looking nice and wet green...

[MAXUM]

This is yet another fine example of the simple fact you cannot under any circumstances legislate responsibility. Great we have laws that ban this that and the other thing... hope that makes everyone feel good because exactly how are these laws to be enforced and more importantly under what circumstances.

If this problem were a real concern then all the towns and the DES would work together to severely restrict the type of waterfront development INCLUDING the site work before the work begins. Ah but the only problem with that is if to many restrictions are put in place, or cramps the style the "do you know who I am" rich people who just demand and or pay off to get what they want. Both the towns and the state find themselves in a bit of a pickle at that point, if to many restrictions are in place the multi-million dollar mc-mansions and chop licking property tax revenues go out the door or selectively look the other way. More and more it's the latter of the two.

So as with anything these days such laws are there for two purposes. One - to make everyone feel good and legislators one more thing they can "brag" about having done when really in a sense they have done nothing. Second having it on the books provides a law that can be selectively applied when it suits the needs of the town or DES, of course completely at their leisure and I dare say probably a better harassment tool than enforceable law.

With the economy in the dumper the way it is these rolling green lawns sitting in front of beautiful sprawling mansions equate to big tax revenue to the local and state tax coffers. Nobody is going to tell the owners of these places what they can or cannot do simple as that. Money has, does and always will talk..

[ACutAbove]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Not every acre of Mother Nature's woods is green; moreover, New Hampshire's least-damaged lakes are surrounded by (and protected by) the most desirable of softwood trees, Red Pines and White Pines.

A portion of New Hampshire's "Mother-Nature-woods" is disappearing at some percentage of "acres-per-second" rate.

(Pardon the expression).

BTW: I DO look into the woods every day—and it's my own woods!


IMO, "Duck Itch" has invaded Lake Winnipesaukee's clear waters due to fertilized lawns resulting from the use of any fertilizer product.

Lake Winnipesaukee's remaining purity/clarity would be best-off without lawns altogether. (IMNSHO).

Correct me if I am wrong, but isnt duck itch caused by ducks pooping in the water and it setteling on the bottom of the lake and then being stirred up by walking on it?
I see no direct result of that comming from fertilizer unless ducks are eating the fertilizer off the lawn then doing thier buisness in the lake before they leave the area?????
Like I said I may be wrong and I dont know if that is what duck itch really is or not.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by aopel

"...I would like to see an end of the suburbanization of the lakefront and the ensuing decline in water quality that comes with it..."

Similar sentiments are being expressed in Switzerland (And their lakes are fed by glacier-melt! )

Originally Posted by tis

Do you know why it has taken them so long to fix that, APS? Permits?

Maybe the property owners missed that wakeup call when their tool shed slid 30 feet downhill to end up on top of their breakwater? You know the property I'm talking about?

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

"...must be this weather which is excellent for sodding...where's it all going...?"

Sod, as you might imagine, is heavily fertilized as delivered. Rain is going to dissolve the fertilizer out and carry it downhill.

Originally Posted by dpg

"...Sod is very high maintenance if you do not want it browning on you..." Nothing "organic" will kill weeds, the idea behind organic programs is to thicken up your lawn so much it smothers out weeds.

That "thickening" part is interesting: I found that browning and thinning occurs where there are trees shading the lawn. (The "lawn" I once had, but now prefer "low-maint" forest and those deer-resistant native flowers).

Originally Posted by ACutAbove

"...Correct me if I am wrong , but isn't duck itch caused by ducks pooping in the water and it settling on the bottom of the lake and then being stirred up by walking on it...?"

1) Duck poop continues and maintains the life cycle of a local snail parasite. It's those [unwilling] snails' parasitic offspring that release the "Duck Itch" parasites [cecaria] that invade the skin of [unwilling] waterfowl—and can only attempt to invade the skin of [unwilling] humans).

2) "Our" snails live off of algae by grazing surfaces where algae grows—and today, algae continue to appear earlier in the summer than ever before.

3) Lawn fertilizer is rain-driven into the lake from everywhere in the Winnipesaukee Basin, but the most damaging lawn fertilizer runoff appears to be closest to the lake—according to NHDES and other states' natural resource sites.

(But fertilizer also includes "normal" septic leachates and the "legal" dishwasher detergent that also escapes via septic leachates).

[tis]

I didn't realize that was the tool shed that slid down to the breakwater. I thought it was always there! But I did notice it how crooked it was. Guess I should have realized!
Would you keep those d--- geese with their babies at YOUR house please. They spent the day with us yesterday despite our trying everything to get them to leave, and you can't even walk out there!

[HUH]

Lots o rain = our lawn looks great, right to the waters edge.. The Canada Geese realy love it too.
Am I realy supposed to be worried about runoff while I watch the 500+ motorboats go by when the marina empties out.
Please see the forest for the trees. Which were completly clear cut for timber 200 years ago !
Ask a limnologist about eutrification and acid rain..

[lawn psycho]

This one gets my attention I am about as fanatic about my lawn turf as any homeowner can get.

Just want to make sure that people understand that organic lawn care does not mean "earth hugging", etc. Grass needs food, Nitrogen in particular. The cool temps around the lake are ideal for Perenial Rye grass and Kentucky Bluegrass cultivars to grow. The lakes region also gets plenty of annual rain fall to support grass with little or no irrigation.

If you really want to try it, get soybean meal from a feed store and use it to fertilize your yard. You need about 50lbs per 1000 sq ft to give you your typical 1lb N/1000 sq ft. Your lawn gets the nutrients it needs but you never have to worry about run-off. By your second growing season you lawn will start to come alive.

You can, with care, fertilize responsibly and prevent any run-off.
As ana example, I live close to the Kennebunk river and am senstive to any run-off because I use conventional fertilizers (albeit Phos free). The entire perimeter of my property has either woods or landscape beds with victorian edges so any water goes into mulched shrubbery. I can tell that I get no run-off as my neighbors grass on the other side of the bed never gets a "greening" effect after I fertilize -AND- I apply 6 lb N/1000 sq ft per year which is a lot by homeowner standards. Golf course are around 10-12lb N per year for reference.

Also, run-off from much farther away than waterfront properties are impacting Winni water quality and probably more-so. Bottomline is that the green grass you see may not be the result of fertilizing but the result of high quality/sod quality seed cultivars and good mowing habits. That said, the ONLY way to have a trophy lawn requires heavy fertilizer use. FWIW, I have not seen a single trophy lawn on the lake, including the Bahre property. Nice, but nowhere close to trophy.....