Missing Mt Washington passenger

[Old Hubbard Rd]

Has the passenger that disappeared overboard on the Mt Washington ever been found?? This happened at the end of last year. It was a Halloween party on the Mount. Just curious.

[kjbathe]

And related to the question above, does anyone know how many people have been lost to the lake and never recovered? I thought that was discussed on the forum at some point but I may be confusing those lost in the lake with misadventures on Mt. Washington.

[Weirs guy]

I don't believe the body has been recovered yet, and at this point I'd bet it wont which must make it harder on the family.

[Diver1111]

It is possible I will return in July, maybe August, to run commercial grade side-scan-sonar with the man I worked with when Fred Surette was lost off East Rattlesnake. His availability as relayed to me by him recently puts me in that time frame. The other factor is whether or not I can get Lat/Lon or UTM coordinates on the approx. point he went overboard. This man could still come up at any time. As I said in my prior post some time ago please be vigilant out there; If something doesn't look right check it out.

[Argie's Wife]

diver - hats off to you for doing that sorta thing... i can't imagine what that must be like and really can't think about it much...

this may seem like a silly question... i understand lake w. is huge, but how many people have been lost forever in it? is this really common?

also, what impact would this have on the mt. washington and the business? (hubby's band used to play on the mt. frequently in the summer... i wish they'd get some of those gigs again, but maybe they're downsizing, it seems...)

[secondcurve]

A friend of mine with ties to Marine Patrol told me that there have been 12-people lost over the years and never recovered.

[tis]

In the past how many years, secondcurve? I bet if you went back a lot of years, there would be a lot more than that. Course they probably didn't always keep track of it.

[secondcurve]

I took to mean since they have been keeping modern records.....say 200 years? I have no idea if the information is accurate, but that is what was represented to me.

[GWC...]

An update to this thread...

Body recovered in Lake Winnipesaukee

Originally Posted by
By PAT GROSSMITH
New Hampshire Union Leader Staff
14 hours, 36 minutes ago

GILFORD – A body found floating this morning in Lake Winnipesaukee is believed to be that of a Hooksett man fell off the M/S Mount Washington last year during a Halloween cruise, according to New Hampshire Marine Patrol.

http://www.unionleader.com/article.a...5-fff5bef21914

[AC2717]

Originally Posted by GWC...

An update to this thread...

Body recovered in Lake Winnipesaukee

http://www.unionleader.com/article.a...5-fff5bef21914

A sad thing, and I hope the body is identifiable, thoughts and prayers to the family, at least there will be some closure for a few, but still heartbreaking almost a year latter, when you are trying hopelessly to move on.

I will throw a wave and loop in between both Islands in salute and memory this weekend!

[Resident 2B]

Let us all hope the this is the body of the man that fell from the Mount during the Halloween Cruise last October and that the Sylvestre family can now bring closure to his life and this very unfortunate event.


R2B

[Paugus Bay Resident]

I was on that cruise, same deck. All I can remember is seeing the woman that was with Mr. Sylvestre as we got off. I will keep that picture in my mind most likely for the rest of my life. I wish her and all the families closure and peace.

[Pineedles]

God keep you. Amen

[Phantom]

The body was positively identified !!

http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...-1/citizen0102

[bigpapi34]

I believe they had just found a body near Center Harbor. Does anyone know anything else about that?

[Airwaves]

This is a printer-friendly version of an article from the Concord Monitor at http://www.concordmonitor.com.
________________________________________
http://www.cmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dl...plate=printart

Article published Dec 12, 2007
Lake Winnipesaukee

Cruise line sued in overboard death
Staff should have stopped serving drinks, wife says

By ANNMARIE TIMMINS
Monitor staff
________________________________________
Dec 12, 2007

A woman whose husband died after falling overboard the M/S Mount Washington during a 2006 Halloween cruise on Lake Winnipesaukee has filed a lawsuit against the ship's owners.
Karen Sylvestre of Hooksett argues the ship's staff erred by serving alcohol to her husband, 45-year-old James Sylvestre, when they knew or should have known he was intoxicated. It's the first time anyone has directly linked Sylvestre's fatal accident with alcohol.
The police have said only that alcohol was served on board the cruise and may have been a factor in the accident.
The lawsuit, filed last week in Merrimack County Superior Court by Manchester attorney Vincent Wenners, however, is more pointed. "The (ship's owners) and its employees had a duty not to serve alcoholic beverages to an already intoxicated person during the cruise," it reads. It goes on to say that employees knew or should have know that Sylvestre "was intoxicated."
The Winnipesaukee Flagship Corp., which owns the M/S Mount Washington, has not had time to respond to the lawsuit. The company's president, R. Sean O'Kane, could not be reached yesterday afternoon.
Wenners said yesterday that he could not comment on the lawsuit while it is pending.
The lawsuit, which is only a page long, does not indicate how Wenners will show that Sylvestre was allegedly intoxicated when he was served by the ship's crew. One option, however, may be by calling witnesses who were on board, including Sylvestre's wife.
In the lawsuit, Wenners argues that staff operated the ship in a way that caused Sylvestre to fall overboard.
Wenners also says the company failed to find Sylvestre during the search that immediately followed.
The Sylvestres were on the ship together Oct. 28, when James Sylvestre fell overboard about 10 p.m. Crews from the state Marine Patrol and Fish and Game Department spent days searching for Sylvestre's body, despite strong winds and violent waters.
The ship's operators issued a statement at the time saying their thoughts were with the Sylvestres.
Sylvestre's body was found after nearly a year in September by a fisherman. Family members said finding his body had brought some relief. Karen Sylvestre had spent the year visiting Lake Winnipesaukee and asking everyone to keep an eye out for her husband, a marina manager said in September.
In her lawsuit, Karen Sylvestre said her husband's death has caused her mental and physical pain and suffering.
She has requested unspecified damages.
------ End of article
By ANNMARIE TIMMINS
Monitor staff

[fatlazyless]

Interesting article in today's Concord Monitor about a new lawsuit by the wife of the drowning victim on the Mount Washington Halloween cruise in 2006. What an unhappy situation that is....condolences to all.

Is there any chance someone might post a direct link to the article. Thanks in advance.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

...My links to www.concordMonitor,com articles never work, so can someone post a direct link to the front page article about this new lawsuit: devoted Laconia wife of deceased vs The Mount...

Here Less, this LINK should point the reader in the right direction.

Merry Christmas,

Skip

[secondcurve]

I truly feel for the family, but in my humble opinion, it is in no way the responsibility of the Mount Washington Staff to keep a 45-year old passenger from drinking to excess and jumping/falling off the boat.

[jrc]

Since it seems that we as a society decided that bar tenders and bar owners are responsible for auto accidents caused by people that they served "too much" alcohol. This lawsuit is a natural extension of that theory.

If a person serving liquor lets you get drunk, they are responsible for whatever damage you cause, even if that damage is to yourself.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by jrc

Since it seems that we as a society decided that bar tenders and bar owners are responsible for auto accidents caused by people that they served "too much" alcohol. This lawsuit is a natural extension of that theory.

If a person serving liquor lets you get drunk, they are responsible for whatever damage you cause, even if that damage is to yourself.

Originally Posted by secondcurve

I truly feel for the family, but in my humble opinion, it is in no way the responsibility of the Mount Washington Staff to keep a 45-year old passenger from drinking to excess and jumping/falling off the boat.

Jrc is right this lawsuit is nothing but a natural extension of the current Theory on responsibility. And Secondcurve is right as well by impling that sometimes people have to accept the responsibility of thier or thier loved ones actions.

I really do feel for Mrs. Sylvestre. I watched the pain my mother went through when my father passed away. And sure we could have called the lawyers and yelled malpractice, infact we had a fairly decent case. But you know what, all it would have brought us was money. My father would still be dead, the Doctors felt bad enough already, and the truth be told the lawyers probably would have walked away with most of the money. Today's society is to interested in playing the blame game. So slowly we are headed to an enviorment where anytime something happens and there is the least little possibility that blame can be placed on a third party, people go for the jugular. It sad to think the todays kids are growing up surrounded by this, soon people will be getting sued for sending a kid to school with the Flu.

In short all these blame game suits need to stop. As a 45 year old Man Mr. Sylvestre should have known how to drink responsibly, and if he didn't his wife should have known enough to keep him away from it. This lawsuit will do nothing more then cause more anguish for the Sylvestre family, and it will not bring him back..... Is it really worth it, or is it just greed?????

[Mr. V]

Oh, please.

I've little sympathy for the so-called grieving widow.

The shining bright light of responsibility should pause for more than a moment on her.

She was with her husband on the Mount, and must have seen hat he was getting drunk.

Why did she take no steps to have the staff cut him off, eh?

Who was in a better position than her to be proactive?

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

[SIKSUKR]

Totally agree.I'm sorry for the Mrs but why is it always everybody elses fault that I screwed up?If I started drinking,I was very clear when I made that decision to begin the process.Nobody made me start drinking.The buck stops right here.

[donnamatrix]

I agree SIKUSR. We've become such a litigious society, but we still must take responsibility for our own actions. Good grief, he was 45 years old. Shouldn't he have been able to control his drinking? He must have been pretty crocked to have gone over the side of the Mount, the rails are pretty high.
I have lost both parents and understand the different stages of grief, and that the widow has certainly undergone pain and suffering: but that doesn't mean the staff on the Mount is culpable.
I know one of the captain's on the Mount and a couple of the bartending staff: they work hard to keep people from getting tanked. However, I believe a person can buy 2 drinks at a time at any one of the 3 bars. Was Mr Sylvestre buying his own and also being provided drinks by others ? I don't know... but the theory that anyone can blame the barkeep for unacceptable or criminal behavior is not only outlandish (IMHO), but wrong. A very unpleasant situation.

[John A. Birdsall]

In this suit, why is not Mrs. Sylvestry listed as a defendant? She was there, she knew when her husband had had too much or when he should have ceased drinking, She could have asked or told the bartender to stop serving him drinks, But then he might have become violent Or did she do these things and the bartender ignored her? Seems like a long period of time that he was lost at lake too me. But I think the Mount tried its best to find him, and it was a freak accident. I wonder if the coronors office stated that he was intoxicated? If they could have found that out after a year in the lake.

[sa meredith]

Wow...if this woman's goal is to sway the pubilc's opinion from sympathy and support, to distain for her, she is certainly going to succeed.
Nice country. Take responsibility for our own actions???????? Naaaaaaaa.
Let's sue somebody!

[Misty Blue]

From the bridge to the deck crew to engineering to the bar/wait staff I have never witnessed anything but total professionalisim from the crew of the Mount. Ever.

I have been served at the flagship lounge and find it hard to believe that the bar staff would overserve. Nope. Just don't think so.

Misty Blue.

[codeman671]

I hate to touch on another subject, but if people think that the staff in fact could be held responsible then maybe Rusty's crew that served Littlefield should have been sued...

I personally don't agree with it. People need to take some level of responsibility, if Sylvestre was drinking that hard maybe the people with him should have slowed him down or he should have had the common sense himself.

[SIKSUKR]

This will really sound heartless but maybe the Mount should sue his estate for all the grief his actions have caused.

[fatlazyless]

You guys are all wet on this one and I totally disagree.

The Mount Washington is a State of NH alcoholic beverage licensed premise. Their license requires that they do not sell alcoholic beverages to people under the age of 21, or to someone who is no longer sober. The licensed premise has to undergo training in determining how to tell when someone is no longer sober,

These laws are in place to protect both the individual drinker himself and the public, and have been developed over the years, in large part, to put a stop to drunk drivers.

As a licensed premise, the Mount Washington has a legal obligation to follow the rules of their license.

By shutting someone off at the bar, it means the licensed premise is not making a sale and the bartender is not making a tip, so there is plenty incentive here for them to keep pouring those drinks.

Maybe someone could find the State's rules for alcohol licensees that apply here? As we all know; "Ignorance of the law is no excuse!

[Skip]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

...As a licensed premise, the Mount Washington has a legal obligation to follow the rules of their license...By shutting someone off at the bar, it means the licensed premise is not making a sale and the bartender is not making a tip, so there is plenty incentive here for them to keep pouring those drinks...Hey, put me on the jury and the owner of The Mount will have to trade in his new Mercedes Benz for an old Geo Tracker with a leaky soft-top!

RSA 179:5 Prohibited Sales is the applicable statute covering the criminal liability for serving intoxicants to an underage or intoxicated individual.

I am sure the State of New Hampshire through the various agencies that investigated this tragic death completely examined that particular liability. If indeed any State agency had found enough evidence after the investigation, including the results of the autopsy that had risen to the level of probable cause then the appropriate parties would have faced a felony indictment under this statute.

No such indictment or allegation was made by the State, therefore criminal liability was not found in this case and this statute does not apply.

Under our legal system individuals have a right to bring action in civil court. The restrictions limiting the who’s, what’s and whys are limited for good reason; common folk should have unfettered access to the Courts.

I have the utmost sympathy for this man’s family and not having any access except to a simple and broad one page filing, I nor you have any idea what information the family may or may not have in regards to this particular case.

To date there has been presented by no one any credible evidence, whether criminal or civil, that the crew, staff or owners of the MV Mount Washington had conducted themselves in any culpable manner. To imply so, however slightly with a statement such as “…By shutting someone off at the bar, it means the licensed premise is not making a sale and the bartender is not making a tip, so there is plenty incentive here for them to keep pouring those drinks…” is in my opinion callous at best and plain mean spirited at worse.

I am also perplexed by your comment “…Hey, put me on the jury and the owner of The Mount will have to trade in his new Mercedes Benz for an old Geo Tracker with a leaky soft-top!...” What, besides pure envy, does it matter what kind of vehicle is allegedly owned by anyone here?

I have no patience whatsoever with frivolous lawsuits. And if this particular litigation turns out to be such, I will surely be joined by many in condemning its introduction.

But I will show enough respect to the widow and the family to at least give them the momentary benefit of the doubt, as I also do for the crew and owners of the M/V.

As a final thought, isn’t it interesting that you are very eager to cast doubt on the crew of the M/V Mount Washington in this alleged alcohol related incident. I can think of another infamous alcohol related incident where in that instance in your numerous posted opinions you never mentioned the liability or responsibility of the bar/restaurant where the guilty party had imbibed last, you chose to blame the incident on the “type of boat involved”.

At least you are consistent…in being inconsistent!

In any case....Merry Christmas,

Skip

[jeffk]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Hey, put me on the jury and the owner of The Mount will have to trade in his new Mercedes Benz for an old Geo Tracker with a leaky soft-top!

Gee, not rushing to judgment a bit are we?

We KNOW that Mr. Sylvestre was on the Mount Washington.

We KNOW that alcohol was being served on board.

As far as I know the only public statements by the police were that alcohol MAY have been a factor.

We DON'T KNOW that Mr. Sylvestre was served any alcohol on board. Maybe he came on board drunk or was stone sober.

We DON'T KNOW if other people were buying him drinks. When my wife and I go on the Mount it wouldn't be unusual for her not to go to the bar at all.

Since no one stopped him to get a blood alcohol we DON'T KNOW how measurably intoxicated he was, if at all.

Since anyone drinking any alcohol is no longer strictly "sober", i.e. unaffected by a chemical substance, your standard of not serving anyone who isn't sober would put a one drink limit on everyone. That doesn't seem very realistic.

Given this http://dartreview.com/archives/2001/...ur_options.php info about public intoxication it seems that a person who is a danger or annoyance may be considered intoxicated. That qualifies some people I know as constantly intoxicated. However, we DON'T KNOW that Mr. Sylvestre exhibited behavior that indicated he was intoxicated.

We DON'T KNOW the cause of his death. We KNOW he was seen leaning over the railing, perhaps acting sick. Was he really sick? I can get bad stomach cramps if I catch a chill which would certainly be possible in October. Maybe that's what happened to him. Maybe it was Professor Plum on the Mount Washington with the lead pipe.

All that said, Mr. Sylvestre was an adult who should have responsibility for his own behavior.

Anybody can file a lawsuit. I'll wait for evidence that the Mount personnel were clearly aware that Mr. Sylvestre was intoxicated and continued to serve him before I consider apportioning any responsibility to them.

[fatlazyless]

That's a very intelligent and lucid post and shows a lot of knpwledge about how the workings of NH law are likely to work. Maybe I was getting a little over dramatic, but with a name like fatlazyless, it goes with the territory

As far as comparing it to any comments I made about the other incident in Meredith, I don't think I had much of anything to say about alcohol and the driver or the restaurant, back then. I pretty much stayed out of that one.

Hmmmm methinks maybe I should stay out of this one too. Mea Culpa, mea culpa, whoopsie I spoke too fast and too glib.... and having been a guest on a number of the Mount's dinner-dance cruises can honestly say that it is a terrific experience. Safety, picturesque water views, excellent food, and a hard working Mount Washington team have made it a great night for myself and my former girlfriend. Hopefully someday, I will get to experience all that again!

[Coolbreeze]

Has anyone considered that the guy was seasick. The conditions were rough that night to say the least. The guy apparently was not conditioned to the roll and motion of a vessel that size in rough conditions.
The couple was attending a Halloween party and had a few drinks in them. Probably not enough to become "sloppy". If he did stagger from drunkenness, how would staff know? Everyone that night, sober or drunk, was staggering from the roll of the vessel. It only makes sense that he drank a few, upset his stomach from motion sickness and did what anybody would do to relieve themselves... go to the edge to vomit. The boat pitched in a way his equilibrium was not ready for and he lost his balance (due to the center of his weight being away from his feet and in his upper torso) and sadly flipped head first over the edge. This is a very sad event in all the lives that experienced the accident.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Coolbreeze

Has anyone considered that the guy was seasick. The conditions were rough that night to say the least..."

Certainly a possibility.

Ultimately, it will be disclosed that the Mount owners "...didn't do everything they could to keep their passengers safe...". It's future passengers who will pay for "damages", the warning signs and the new netting that will appear on the Mount when the case is settled.

Lawyers like to say, "We like to help people". Now that the number of lawyers in this country has exceeded one million, they appear to be helping themselves.

In the 1985 lyrics of Tom Paxton:

Chorus:

"One million lawyers, one million lawyers.
In ten years we're gonna have one million lawyers.
How much can a poor nation stand?"

[nj2nh]

If this case were brought in NJ and the allegations made my Mrs. Sylvestre were true, then, well, the Mount would be responsible in a civil suit.

Down here, a jury awarded a huge amount to a family whose child was struck and seriously injured (paralyzed at the age of 2) by a drunk driver. The party paying? The company that runs the consession stands at Giants Stadium.

So, you see where all this is going. This case is one step removed from the one at the Lake. Like I said, if this case were in Jersey, the Mount would be paying up IF the allegations were found to be true.

Although I am a lawyer (criminal only), I completely agree that civil suits have gone too far and it is almost completely the fault of the legal profession.

nj2nh

[SAMIAM]

The Citizen story said the the captain operated the boat in such a way as to contribute to the death of the victim. Jeesh....how did he do that?....jumping wakes,maybe? or zigzagging.Maybe pulling a wakeboarder at the time.
It's always somebody elses fault.Lets blame the bartender,distiller,delivery driver,wholesaler,NH Liquor Commision and that evil farmer that raised the grain.

[Weirs guy]

I have found it very interesting that in the roughly 120 year history of the Mount/Chateaugay no one has, to my knowledge, fallen over those railings. All those storms here and on Lake Champlain, all those intoxicated individuals, all those chances, and not a one that I am aware of.

I feel for the wife, it must have been a horrible year for her, but I think the first person who needs to answer to her is her. The lawsuit seems to me to be a waste of tax payers dollars by tying up court time.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by nj2nh

Although I am a lawyer (criminal only), I completely agree that civil suits have gone too far and it is almost completely the fault of the legal profession.

nj2nh

Nj2nh,

It is refreshing to hear this view from an Lawyer, even if as you point out your specialty is criminal law. I know myself as a profession there are many specialties, and although my tounge often gets ahead of my brain I do personally only mean to point at the Civil, slip and fall types in this type of case. However I often find that no matter what specialty a lawyer falls under most always defend the stance on these Civil suits.... So once I again I commend you for making the above comment, especially where you yourself are a lawyer......

[WINDinmySOCKIES]

Once Upon a time, in what now seems a former life I was a bartender. When you "flag" someone especially in a large place, it does not mean that they must leave (or can leave, in the case of the boat). It does not stop their "friends" or even their spouse from buying them a drink and taking it to them. Yet the bartender is supposed to be responsible. This was in another state, but I found this insane. The liquor control board actually came in and spoke to us about this one time. Since so much time passed, I really doubt they could have found blood alcohol on this man. No matter what, it is a horrible accident and loss for his family. BUT! Where were his wife and friends that night, and why weren't they looking out for him? Alcohol is a drug, and can kill people. How easily we forget because it is legal. If you are an adult, enjoy it like one, if you can not, leave it alone! As an Adult, take responsibility for yourself! Have a SAFE and Happy Holiday.

[Mee-n-Mac]

Like pretty much like everyone else so far, I also see this lawsuit as less than meritorious. Regardless of what the law says or what it's intent is/was ... this case certainly isn't a poster child for it. Man drinks to excess (if true) and doesn't harm any innocent 3'rd party ... bad circumstances for a lawsuit of any kind.

I remember when such laws began a trend and they had some legislators play the role of bartender and try to figure out who was impaired or not. Not surprisingly they didn't do to well as quiet drunks were never "caught" and boisterous sober people were. Nice thing to have, unrealizable laws. So who is to say that Mr Sylvestre wasn't a quiet drunk (if drunk).


Probably the only certain thing is that the Mount will become more restrictive as a result of this lawsuit ("will that be a Lite or a Light beer sir ?") no matter how it goes and we'll all take yet another step towards the great nanny state that apparently some people want.

[chaseisland]

For years I worked in the field of alcohol testing and have always felt that an individual who takes the second drink has to accept responsibility for their actions. Nobody else forced them to continue drinking. One way out for the Mount in the future is for them to increase their prices and make the event a BYOB.

[nj2nh]

Thanks, LIforrelaxin. If I had to do it all over again, I would NOT go to law school even if it meant never meeting my husband - a fellow student and fellow lawyer. He agrees that our society is ridiculously litigious. He won't touch those cases with a ten-foot pole. Handles real estate (of which there is precious little lately) and estates and trusts.

Being our kind of lawyer is not profitable lately especially if you work for yourself and have to pay for your own health insurance. I think we would be better off retiring to the lake and getting jobs at minimum wage. Sounds mighty appealling, so to speak!

nj2nh