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Old 02-18-2022, 11:37 AM   #1
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Default Think and Drink NH 1st

Yes I do have a dog in this race. I may never had become aware enough to share had I not.

The New Hampshire liquor commission sold $850 million worth of wine and liquor in 2021. That represents approximately $283 million in gross profits and $563 million that funneled back to brokers and distillers/wineries from elsewhere around the world.

We can all help our local economy a great deal by thinking and drinking New Hampshire first when it comes to beer, wine and spirits. There are several small craft distilleries, breweries, and wineries in the state. Imagine the impact if we collectively encouraged our restaurants to replace products from afar with that from right down the street. The money kept at home will circulate through a local economy and pass through their hands time and time again.
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Old 02-18-2022, 11:42 AM   #2
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I gotta swing in for my bottle of Dancing Rabbit.... Apparently the girls & the Houston's already have theirs!


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Old 02-18-2022, 01:51 PM   #3
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I like the idea of supporting local businesses, but booze is a bit different.

People develop a "go to favorite," and typically reorder the same thing.

How good are the local products, and is there a site that compares them to the competition (taste and price)?
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Old 02-18-2022, 05:27 PM   #4
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Yes I do have a dog in this race. I may never had become aware enough to share had I not.

The New Hampshire liquor commission sold $850 million worth of wine and liquor in 2021. That represents approximately $283 million in gross profits and $563 million that funneled back to brokers and distillers/wineries from elsewhere around the world.

We can all help our local economy a great deal by thinking and drinking New Hampshire first when it comes to beer, wine and spirits. There are several small craft distilleries, breweries, and wineries in the state. Imagine the impact if we collectively encouraged our restaurants to replace products from afar with that from right down the street. The money kept at home will circulate through a local economy and pass through their hands time and time again.
Vermont has done a great job marketing maple syrup, and Maine has done well with Lobster. No reason NH can't follow those examples. Look what distilleries have done for Scotland!!
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Old 02-18-2022, 07:09 PM   #5
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Old 02-18-2022, 08:52 PM   #6
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Sorry, I don't drink.
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Old 02-18-2022, 09:03 PM   #7
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Sorry, I don't drink.
Explains a lot


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Old 02-18-2022, 11:01 PM   #8
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I'm a traditional conservative.
I don't drink, smoke, do drugs, have tats, keep domestic animals as pets, or do anything that we traditionally consider wasteful.
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Old 02-19-2022, 07:29 AM   #9
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I certainly do my job supporting NH breweries
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Old 02-19-2022, 10:34 AM   #10
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Default Where to buy?

Is the Tavern closed for the winter? Where can I buy Dancing Rabbit Vodka?
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Old 02-19-2022, 10:49 AM   #11
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I'm a traditional conservative.
I don't drink, smoke, do drugs, have tats, keep domestic animals as pets, or do anything that we traditionally consider wasteful.
Your not serious are you !
You would be about as much fun as watching paint dry .
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Old 02-19-2022, 11:28 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Mr. V View Post
I like the idea of supporting local businesses, but booze is a bit different.

People develop a "go to favorite," and typically reorder the same thing.

How good are the local products, and is there a site that compares them to the competition (taste and price)?
You are absolutely correct. As a restaurateur I cater to personal preferences for a living. Along the way I have recognized how my role in the consumer’s life can make a difference. I found success with a Tapas bar in a community that spread the word of a new “Topless bar” opening because the word “Tapas” was unfamiliar.

I have never sold Titoe’s Vodka because they were fined twice for dumping waist water into the river in Austin. (Would you drink my vodka if I dumped my waist in the lake?) They have however had a very effective marketing campaign which has built a very large an loyal following. I can’t count the number of times that a guest has requested Titoe’s and I have explained my position, then introduced them to a NH alternative. (Now Dancing Rabbit) Many have come back to enthusiastically request the alternative. This is why I encourage we encourage our restaurants to be more proactive. The business they save may be their own.
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Old 02-19-2022, 11:37 AM   #13
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Is the Tavern closed for the winter? Where can I buy Dancing Rabbit Vodka?
Yes it has been an interesting winter. We thought we would close for the season but every now and then we find ourselves missing the good people we’ve grown to love and will spontaneously open for the day. We are not the same restaurant due to lack of staff. At this time it’s just Leslie and I serving drinks and a very lite offering.

There is a message on the door in regards to Dancing Rabbit with a QR code. When you capture the QR code on your phone a text is delivered informing us that someone wants vodka. We will respond ASAP.
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Old 02-19-2022, 01:22 PM   #14
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Your not serious are you !
You would be about as much fun as watching paint dry .
That is the short list.
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Old 02-19-2022, 01:57 PM   #15
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That is the short list.
The old joke: "I don't swear, smoke, or drink. Oh $#!+, I left my cigars at the G D bar! ".

When I saw your initial comment, I said that sounds like Xxxxx & Yyyyyy, a couple we play some golf with. Your short list describes their lifestyle to a tee, and we have a ball with them. (Not sure of the wasteful bit, but that doesn't matter to me)

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Old 02-19-2022, 03:15 PM   #16
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Because this area was a lot more rural than in the past...
School and home lessons always had a dose of the stoic, frugal, New Englander of old... so ''waste not, want not''.

Lots of items come from that group, but we digress when times feel easier. I always remember there is another down market right around the corner, another winter that may not be as easy as the ones we remember...

Old farmers would drink hard cider... but that was more about ''saving'' the apples rather than let them rot (or at least that was what they would pretend).
They smoked... but at a time when tobacco was not so costly.
I don't remember any near me on drugs, and tats were mostly military service in a younger life.
Domesticated animals had a purpose. Cats for rodent control, dogs for critter control... to hunt... or help with livestock.
We seldom dined out... and even then it was mostly at our own restaurants.
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Old 02-19-2022, 06:14 PM   #17
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I'm a traditional conservative.
I don't drink, smoke, do drugs, have tats, keep domestic animals as pets, or do anything that we traditionally consider wasteful.
I guess I'm a traditional Libertarian.

I used to drink and smoke but gave both up for health and expense reasons.

I did psychedelics in college and am a regular cannabis user.

No tats or piercings, thank heavens, but I do have a "Joy for All" robotic cat.
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Old 02-20-2022, 07:54 AM   #18
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I like the idea of supporting local businesses, but booze is a bit different.

People develop a "go to favorite," and typically reorder the same thing.

How good are the local products, and is there a site that compares them to the competition (taste and price)?
Don't know about sites comparing others, but I can't drink beer but I love my whiskeys. And I have spent a lot of years "collecting" New England whiskeys, and some vodkas as well. I know have my "go to" bottles of whiskey that I always have in the cabinet, my wife must have Nashoba Valley Vodka in the house. As for whiskeys, Berkshire Distillery makes great whiskeys including a corn whiskey, Sweetwater out past Keen has a great bourbon and a maple bourbon that I have in the winter all the time (and I hate flavored whiskeys), Wiggle Bridge in Maine is great as well, and last year I finally made it to Tamworth Distillery and bought a bunch of different products.

I have been supporting local distilleries since before it was "trendy". If people look around there are a lot of local products that are superior to mass generated products. We also support a local dairy farm and get out milk there too. There chocolate cows make THE BEST chocolate molk EVER!!!!!!
Next time we are at the lake I will try to swing by and grab a bottle and some bites.
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Old 02-20-2022, 08:44 AM   #19
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Sorry I'll keep buying my Corona Premier, I don't like most "local" brews... To "heavy" and "strong" for me...
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Old 02-20-2022, 10:30 AM   #20
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Sorry I'll keep buying my Corona Premier, I don't like most "local" brews... To "heavy" and "strong" for me...
If you are totally set in your ways, I get it, that’s your prerogative. If on the other hand you have an interest in being proactive and getting out in front of an issue likely to impact the region I encourage you to ask in-state breweries if they have an alternative.

I’ve served many Bud Lite drinkers☹️ who have the same opinion of local beer having to much flavor and to high an ABV. Such a preconceived notion has preventing them from adventuring out to explore the possibilities. I personally like full flavor and high ABV (more bang for the buck) but I am aware of 2 NH breweries that feature a liter option. Moët Mt has a Czech Pilsner and Burnt timber has an American Larger. Also I believe Twin Barns has attempted to satisfy you but I am not sure of the name/style.
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Old 02-22-2022, 11:32 AM   #21
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You are absolutely correct. As a restaurateur I cater to personal preferences for a living. Along the way I have recognized how my role in the consumer’s life can make a difference. I found success with a Tapas bar in a community that spread the word of a new “Topless bar” opening because the word “Tapas” was unfamiliar.

I have never sold Titoe’s Vodka because they were fined twice for dumping waist water into the river in Austin. (Would you drink my vodka if I dumped my waist in the lake?) They have however had a very effective marketing campaign which has built a very large an loyal following. I can’t count the number of times that a guest has requested Titoe’s and I have explained my position, then introduced them to a NH alternative. (Now Dancing Rabbit) Many have come back to enthusiastically request the alternative. This is why I encourage we encourage our restaurants to be more proactive. The business they save may be their own.
And it was because of your tavern, my wife and I got turned on to Ice Pik

(sorry Rabbit)
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Old 02-23-2022, 04:33 PM   #22
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Don't know about sites comparing others, but I can't drink beer but I love my whiskeys. And I have spent a lot of years "collecting" New England whiskeys, and some vodkas as well. I know have my "go to" bottles of whiskey that I always have in the cabinet, my wife must have Nashoba Valley Vodka in the house. As for whiskeys, Berkshire Distillery makes great whiskeys including a corn whiskey, Sweetwater out past Keen has a great bourbon and a maple bourbon that I have in the winter all the time (and I hate flavored whiskeys), Wiggle Bridge in Maine is great as well, and last year I finally made it to Tamworth Distillery and bought a bunch of different products.

I have been supporting local distilleries since before it was "trendy". If people look around there are a lot of local products that are superior to mass generated products. We also support a local dairy farm and get out milk there too. There chocolate cows make THE BEST chocolate molk EVER!!!!!!
Next time we are at the lake I will try to swing by and grab a bottle and some bites.
I have been to the Berkshire distillery. It’s real awesome there. They have a great botanical garden for their gin, which is award-winning. That is a Massachusetts though. Tamworth distillery makes a gin worthy of consumption. IMHO

For the bourbon lovers, Another New Hampshire bourbon to check out is Flag Hill, distilled in Lee New Hampshire.
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Old 02-23-2022, 08:37 PM   #23
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I have been to the Berkshire distillery. It’s real awesome there. They have a great botanical garden for their gin, which is award-winning. That is a Massachusetts though. Tamworth distillery makes a gin worthy of consumption. IMHO

For the bourbon lovers, Another New Hampshire bourbon to check out is Flag Hill, distilled in Lee New Hampshire.
We do have some of Tamworth Gin in the house. I can't stand gin, but my wife likes it in the summer.
Flag Hill is on my list!! Thanks for the suggestion
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Old 02-26-2022, 01:38 PM   #24
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Sununu just ordered all liquor stores to remove all Russian vodka from their shelves. Would you all please help by calling the Lakes region stores and asking them to replace it with Dancing Rabbit. State inventory number 6825

Gilford 603.524.6083
Meredith 603.279.0718
Tilton 603.528.2170
Center Harbor 603.253.3169
Alton 603.875.5010
New Hampton 603.744.2100

This action will help the restaurants get it.

Thank you
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Old 02-26-2022, 03:34 PM   #25
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Sununu just ordered all liquor stores to remove all Russian vodka from their shelves. Would you all please help by calling the Lakes region stores and asking them to replace it with Dancing Rabbit. State inventory number 6825

Gilford 603.524.6083
Meredith 603.279.0718
Tilton 603.528.2170
Center Harbor 603.253.3169
Alton 603.875.5010
New Hampton 603.744.2100

This action will help the restaurants get it.

Thank you
Well done


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Old 02-27-2022, 07:10 AM   #26
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Sununu just ordered all liquor stores to remove all Russian vodka from their shelves. Would you all please help by calling the Lakes region stores and asking them to replace it with Dancing Rabbit. State inventory number 6825

Gilford 603.524.6083
Meredith 603.279.0718
Tilton 603.528.2170
Center Harbor 603.253.3169
Alton 603.875.5010
New Hampton 603.744.2100

This action will help the restaurants get it.

Thank you
And this does what exactly? The stuff is already here meaning it is already bought and paid for if the intent is to "hurt" the source.

Pulling it off the shelves only hurts the state which is going to sit on inventory it owns and now won't sell.

Maybe if we did something meaningful like stop importing oil from them and got back to producing our own that would make a bigger impact.
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Old 02-27-2022, 07:22 AM   #27
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And this does what exactly? The stuff is already here meaning it is already bought and paid for if the intent is to "hurt" the source.

Pulling it off the shelves only hurts the state which is going to sit on inventory it owns and now won't sell.

Maybe if we did something meaningful like stop importing oil from them and got back to producing our own that would make a bigger impact.
The state has a tremendous amount of leverage with its suppliers. It’s very likely the inventory can be returned to the source.

Absolutely agree that closing the Keystone pipeline was a huge mistake and needs to be reopened so we can stop purchasing 500k barrels of oil a day from Russia


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Old 02-27-2022, 08:07 AM   #28
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And this does what exactly? The stuff is already here meaning it is already bought and paid for if the intent is to "hurt" the source.

Pulling it off the shelves only hurts the state which is going to sit on inventory it owns and now won't sell.

Maybe if we did something meaningful like stop importing oil from them and got back to producing our own that would make a bigger impact.
The state does not own any of the alcohol. Brokers rent space within a state owned warehouse. Once the alcohol is sold to a restaurant, the state then pays the broker 30 days later. I don’t know how payment is handled once it’s distributed to the stores. It wouldn’t surprise me if payment is not made until after the store has sold it.

Those affected immediately are the brokers/importers, but a year from now it will affect the producers.

I witnessed the most beneficial gain last night. The conversation around my tavern was robust. There was unity between my liberal guests and conservative guests. Haven’t seen that in a while.
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Old 02-27-2022, 10:06 AM   #29
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The state does not own any of the alcohol. Brokers rent space within a state owned warehouse. Once the alcohol is sold to a restaurant, the state then pays the broker 30 days later. I don’t know how payment is handled once it’s distributed to the stores. It wouldn’t surprise me if payment is not made until after the store has sold it.

Those affected immediately are the brokers/importers, but a year from now it will affect the producers.

I witnessed the most beneficial gain last night. The conversation around my tavern was robust. There was unity between my liberal guests and conservative guests. Haven’t seen that in a while.
Great points--also, as you suggested before, all this stuff sends a message to Putin and his supporters that we will not stand for this. State stores and bars make $ hand over fist on alcohol, they can take a small loss on a few cases or bottles. Plus--if it's a real hardship, the bars can rip the labels off the Stoli and use it when brand is not specified.
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Old 02-27-2022, 11:58 AM   #30
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The state has a tremendous amount of leverage with its suppliers. It’s very likely the inventory can be returned to the source.

Absolutely agree that closing the Keystone pipeline was a huge mistake and needs to be reopened so we can stop purchasing 500k barrels of oil a day from Russia


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From the Union Leader on Saturday Feb 26th:

"But the liquor stores are not planning to dispose of the vodkas, or return the inventory, Powers said. “It will remain in our possession until further notice,” he said."

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Old 02-27-2022, 01:22 PM   #31
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From the Union Leader on Saturday Feb 26th:

"But the liquor stores are not planning to dispose of the vodkas, or return the inventory, Powers said. “It will remain in our possession until further notice,” he said."

Dave
I’m not familiar with EJ Powers and what his/her position is other than spokesman. There may be a decision made up-stream that changes the statement.

Another factor for consideration is that, as I pointed out earlier, brokers have to pay rent for the space in the warehouse that their product takes up. If their product cannot be sold through the store they may not see logic behind paying rent and they may pull their product themselves.

New Hampshire is not the only state to initiate such actions against Russian vodka. Many states seem to be following suit and beyond that there appears to be a global movement right now.
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Old 02-27-2022, 04:20 PM   #32
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The state does not own any of the alcohol. Brokers rent space within a state owned warehouse. Once the alcohol is sold to a restaurant, the state then pays the broker 30 days later. I don’t know how payment is handled once it’s distributed to the stores. It wouldn’t surprise me if payment is not made until after the store has sold it.

Those affected immediately are the brokers/importers, but a year from now it will affect the producers.

I witnessed the most beneficial gain last night. The conversation around my tavern was robust. There was unity between my liberal guests and conservative guests. Haven’t seen that in a while.
Can't comment on who owns that inventory in the liquor stores, but to me it seems like a classic virtue signal and nothing more. Think the Russian government cares about vodka producers? About as useful as resolution that "condemns" what's going on. Congratulations but what does that achieve? Mention on the 6:00 news, and Putin chuckling as he keeps pushing on with what he's doing. Not saying I know the right answer either.

Without a doubt if there is consensus amongst both libs and cons regarding this matter, hell may just have frozen over..... but alas it hasn't because I'm sure while both may be in agreement this is not good, neither will agree on any kind of substantive measure in response. Again mentioning us buying oil from Russia when we don't need to now or ever.

Interesting times for sure...
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Old 02-27-2022, 04:25 PM   #33
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And this does what exactly? The stuff is already here meaning it is already bought and paid for if the intent is to "hurt" the source.

Pulling it off the shelves only hurts the state which is going to sit on inventory it owns and now won't sell.

Maybe if we did something meaningful like stop importing oil from them and got back to producing our own that would make a bigger impact.
We are 10 months ahead of production schedule estimates by the EIA, and the current estimate is for US production to be a new record for 2023. The industry executives have stated that it would be 2023, because though we will see higher daily production this summer, it will not offset the earlier months enough to create a record for this year.

Investors that buy futures contracts are very aware of the production, current storage levels, refinery demand, and demand for refined product.
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Old 02-27-2022, 04:40 PM   #34
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The state has a tremendous amount of leverage with its suppliers. It’s very likely the inventory can be returned to the source.

Absolutely agree that closing the Keystone pipeline was a huge mistake and needs to be reopened so we can stop purchasing 500k barrels of oil a day from Russia


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Purchases from Russia are not about the Keystone XL.

In fact, they had the option of reversing a pipeline... that is currently sitting nearly empty and only has enough to keep it ''wet'' that would transfer the oil to eastern refineries through the Montreal-Portland pipeline. Irving even publicly stated it would build the necessary coker to refine the product if that action was taken.

''Most of the oil that U.S. refiners buy from Russia is not crude oil, but fuel oil they use to produce gasoline in the absence of Venezuelan heavy oil supply to complement the imports of heavy Canadian crude from the oil sands.''

That come from an oil industry analyst.
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Old 02-27-2022, 04:56 PM   #35
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Purchases from Russia are not about the Keystone XL.

In fact, they had the option of reversing a pipeline... that is currently sitting nearly empty and only has enough to keep it ''wet'' that would transfer the oil to eastern refineries through the Montreal-Portland pipeline. Irving even publicly stated it would build the necessary coker to refine the product if that action was taken.

''Most of the oil that U.S. refiners buy from Russia is not crude oil, but fuel oil they use to produce gasoline in the absence of Venezuelan heavy oil supply to complement the imports of heavy Canadian crude from the oil sands.''

That come from an oil industry analyst.
I respectfully disagree with you assessment. It all starts out as crude at some point yes the oil purchased from Russia has completed one step of refining before its exported but we can use the Keystone crude which can be refined here in the US into fuel oil used for gasoline.


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Old 02-27-2022, 05:02 PM   #36
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Can't comment on who owns that inventory in the liquor stores, but to me it seems like a classic virtue signal and nothing more. Think the Russian government cares about vodka producers? About as useful as resolution that "condemns" what's going on. Congratulations but what does that achieve? Mention on the 6:00 news, and Putin chuckling as he keeps pushing on with what he's doing. Not saying I know the right answer either.

Without a doubt if there is consensus amongst both libs and cons regarding this matter, hell may just have frozen over..... but alas it hasn't because I'm sure while both may be in agreement this is not good, neither will agree on any kind of substantive measure in response. Again mentioning us buying oil from Russia when we don't need to now or ever.

Interesting times for sure...
The value is that universal consensus and everybody doing what they can keeps pressure on major governments to do the more substantial things.

Also--maybe you're missing some of the news reports? Putin can't possible be chuckling today, and Republican leaders in Congress have given plenty of support to Biden for the sanctions that have been put in place.

It's too complex a situation to know what will happen, but at least for now, we're doing great at making Putin pay for this. We all need to keep up the pressure in whatever way we can.
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Old 02-27-2022, 05:28 PM   #37
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He was going to take Ukraine for security and economic measures as soon as he didn't have support in the US presidency.

Under President Trump, he knew that Ukraine would never be invited to be a NATO member, and that military aid would be at a premium.

He also knew that sanctions against Maduro for being a ''socialist dictator'' (LOL) would ensure that Russian crude derivatives would flow to the US.

The bigger long term fear for these countries is demand destruction. It is so large that Saudi Arabia is skipping LNG advancements and moving quickly to hydrogen.

A lot of energy investment analyst expect the Kingdom to rely heavily on solar creating hydrogen that can be liquified and easily transported with more investment and development.

Shell Oil is pushing the Blue Hydrogen technology, and expected it to be dominate until 2045... but with SA investment that shift to Green Hydrogen could come much sooner.
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Old 02-27-2022, 08:31 PM   #38
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He was going to take Ukraine for security and economic measures as soon as he didn't have support in the US presidency.

Under President Trump, he knew that Ukraine would never be invited to be a NATO member, and that military aid would be at a premium.

He also knew that sanctions against Maduro for being a ''socialist dictator'' (LOL) would ensure that Russian crude derivatives would flow to the US.

The bigger long term fear for these countries is demand destruction. It is so large that Saudi Arabia is skipping LNG advancements and moving quickly to hydrogen.

A lot of energy investment analyst expect the Kingdom to rely heavily on solar creating hydrogen that can be liquified and easily transported with more investment and development.

Shell Oil is pushing the Blue Hydrogen technology, and expected it to be dominate until 2045... but with SA investment that shift to Green Hydrogen could come much sooner.
I agree that green energy is the ultimate way to deal with Putin. I do think these sanctions are going to bite pretty hard--if there's no SWIFT, and the central bank cannot access foreign reserves, it will be like a boa constrictor. Russian financial markets open in just a few hours--we'll see what they think soon...
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Old 02-27-2022, 10:10 PM   #39
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Look at the success we had with sanctions on Cuba since 1959. Iran since 1980...Despots just don't care.

Let's have a ceremonial display of pouring a bottle of Russian Vodka into Portsmouth Harbor and be done. Or, we dress up as Indians and throw a shipload into the harbor. That stuck in everybody's minds even before we had social media. "That made the tea undrinkable, even for Americans" (George in Mary Poppins.
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Old 02-27-2022, 11:10 PM   #40
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It really has little effect on us, if we want it too.
We could restart Venezuela. It wouldn't be immediate. But it would suffice.

We could implore Trudeau to reverse the Montreal-Portland pipeline... and those refiners are actually nearly sitting idle... much different than refineries whose crude storage tanks are nearly full.

There are many options.
But overheating the economy, might make Americans rethink their lifestyles and priorities. It has been a long time, and we seem to forget.
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