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Old 06-07-2020, 07:48 AM   #1
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Default The numbers are interesting....

This from Yahoo:

Coronavirus Cases
Region NH U.S.

Confirmed Cases 5,019 1,908,313
Fatal Cases 283 109,399
Recovered Cases 3,319 500,849

Updated 6/07/2020 from ECDC, WHO, and local government sites

My question: Regarding the US numbers -- where do the remaining 1,298,065 fall? They are left out. Under investigation? My guess is they are recovered but not documented as such. Still...people only see 500,859 recovered when in reality it is likely to be 1,798,914.

Am I missing something?
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Old 06-07-2020, 08:04 AM   #2
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I would guess that Total confirmed = active + recovered + fatal .. So your reminder is the active among us.
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Old 06-07-2020, 08:40 AM   #3
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many states haven't reported recoveries. For instance Arizona shows only 70 recovered
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Old 06-07-2020, 12:21 PM   #4
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I too have wondered what the delta number represented.

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Originally Posted by Slickcraft View Post
I would guess that Total confirmed = active + recovered + fatal .. So your reminder is the active among us.
If that were the case, why not add the number to the "active" that you mention first?

Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix
many states haven't reported recoveries. For instance Arizona shows only 70 recovered
Perhaps a 4th category "undermined" would clarify that.

The way it seems (to me) is that they are trying to hide something.
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Old 06-07-2020, 12:51 PM   #5
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Numbers schmumbers...who gives a rats ass at this point?
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Old 06-07-2020, 02:59 PM   #6
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Numbers schmumbers...who gives a rats ass at this point?
I do. Those aren't just numbers. They are people. A lot of pain, there.
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Old 06-07-2020, 05:01 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Hillcountry View Post
Numbers schmumbers...who gives a rats ass at this point?
Obviously not you!

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Old 06-07-2020, 06:11 PM   #8
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Numbers schmumbers...who gives a rats ass at this point?
In addition to these being real people, as has already been pointed out, the numbers are a chance to reflect on our previous thinking. Many opined that this was no worse than the flu, just for example. Obviously, that was wrong. Others said we should copy Sweden. Wrong again. Folks who made these predictions should swallow their pride and remember this the next time that are certain of something.

Many are now saying we should reopen immediately. We will know in a couple of months whether this was a good idea in certain geographies.

The optimists were wrong last time, but let's hope they're right this time.
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Old 06-07-2020, 10:47 PM   #9
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Where is the outrage for the “numbers” of “real people” that die every day of a hundred other causes including whatever other “flu” is killing them?
Where is the outrage for “real people” that are dying trying to protect, as police officers, the public?
Where is the outrage for “real people” dying of cancer every hour because of the tobacco companies.
Where is the outrage about mass looting and destruction of lives and property being perpetrated by paid agitators ?
Where is the outrage about an entire city preparing to not “just de-fund” but ELIMINATE ENTIRELY, a police department?
Ad nauseum...
There is no outrage
We, as a country, have been duped by the government and media to be “woke” about “numbers” from a man-made virus perpetrated upon us by some Chinese “scientists” that were careless as well as the CCP allowing this virus to be transmitted to the world by hiding it and preparing for mass profiteering because they held products that would be needed by the world.
Screw “the numbers” as I, for one, am tired of hearing about them.

Last edited by Hillcountry; 06-12-2020 at 06:42 AM.
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Old 06-07-2020, 11:05 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hillcountry View Post
The hypocrisy here is stunning...
Where is the outrage for the “numbers” of “real people” that die every day of a hundred other causes including whatever other “flu” is killing them?
Where is the outrage for “real people” that are dying trying to protect, as police officers, the public?
Where is the outrage for “real people” dying of cancer every hour because of the tobacco companies.
Where is the outrage about mass looting and destruction of lives and property being perpetrated by paid agitators ?
Where is the outrage about an entire city preparing to not “just de-fund” but ELIMINATE ENTIRELY, a police department?
Ad nauseum...
There is no outrage
We, as a country, have been duped by the government and media to be “woke” about “numbers” from a man-made virus perpetrated upon us by some Chinese “scientists” that were careless as well as the CCP allowing this virus to be transmitted to the world by hiding it and preparing for mass profiteering because they held products that would be needed by the world.
Screw “the numbers” as I, for one, am tired of hearing about them.
Deny, deflect, defend? We have lost 100,000+ in about 3 months and it's not nearly over. Your point is that we should IGNORE that 'cus other bad things happen? Add in conspiracy theories, charges of 'fake news' & it seems you are really just emotionally overwhelmed by reality and are desperate to avoid it. Sad.
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Old 06-08-2020, 06:58 AM   #11
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1.35 Million die each year in auto accidents...….why are we still allowed to drive?
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Old 06-08-2020, 07:14 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by kawishiwi View Post
Deny, deflect, defend? We have lost 100,000+ in about 3 months and it's not nearly over. Your point is that we should IGNORE that 'cus other bad things happen? Add in conspiracy theories, charges of 'fake news' & it seems you are really just emotionally overwhelmed by reality and are desperate to avoid it. Sad.
“Emotionally overwhelmed”? Quite the opposite. As far as I and millions of others are concerned, this BS is OVER. In the end, numbers mean NOTHING as they are justification for people in public office to wring their hands and keep their mainstream media, drivel flowing.
Death is caused by LIFE! Get over it and continue LIVING! Now!
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Old 06-08-2020, 09:15 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by SAMIAM View Post
1.35 Million die each year in auto accidents...….why are we still allowed to drive?

I think that’s a worldwide number. In the U.S. it’s around 40,000.


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Old 06-08-2020, 09:20 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hillcountry View Post
The hypocrisy here is stunning...
Where is the outrage for the “numbers” of “real people” that die every day of a hundred other causes including whatever other “flu” is killing them?
Where is the outrage for “real people” that are dying trying to protect, as police officers, the public?
Where is the outrage for “real people” dying of cancer every hour because of the tobacco companies.
Where is the outrage about mass looting and destruction of lives and property being perpetrated by paid agitators ?
Where is the outrage about an entire city preparing to not “just de-fund” but ELIMINATE ENTIRELY, a police department?
Ad nauseum...
There is no outrage
We, as a country, have been duped by the government and media to be “woke” about “numbers” from a man-made virus perpetrated upon us by some Chinese “scientists” that were careless as well as the CCP allowing this virus to be transmitted to the world by hiding it and preparing for mass profiteering because they held products that would be needed by the world.
Screw “the numbers” as I, for one, am tired of hearing about them.
Speaking out about one problem while silent on others is not hypocritical, it's simply sticking to one topic. As K has pointed out, you seem kind of overwhelmed, I hope you can get some peace.

Asserting that the numbers are not bad, or not going to be bad, or Thanking other posters doing the same...and then saying "screw the numbers" when they turn out to be bad--now THAT'S hypocritical
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Old 06-08-2020, 09:37 AM   #15
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Default I don't see the hypocrisy in the outrage

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The hypocrisy here is stunning...
Where is the outrage for the “numbers” of “real people” that die every day of a hundred other causes including whatever other “flu” is killing them? ....
I don't see stunning hypocrisy. There is a outrage and action for many of the illnesses that kill people at a lower run-rate. This one just happened to be off the radar until well into the first quarter of 2020.

On March 17'th, Covus-19 deaths surpassed terrorism deaths as of the same date. Plenty of outrage and costs on to reduce that one. On March 24'th, it surpassed poisonings and on March 28'th, more than fire and hepatitis. By April 11, more people died from Covid-19 than by homicide. We have lots of laws and outrage about that.

Not until April 25'th did Covid-19 outpace malaria. So, six weeks from off the radar to greater than many death causes that do upset people. That is why people are taking notice. That is why there is well deserved outrage and attempts to control it. No other cause of death this year has gained so much over other well established causes. So, how can outrage be considered hypocrisy?

There is an animated graphic that I found interesting, which shows the global deaths by a selection of causes throughout the year to June 1. It adds perspective. Auto accidents, heart issues and cancer aren't on this list. I wish they were, but lots of efforts have gone into those causes along with those listed. Click here to view it.

In the lakes region, we are lucky. While there is no similar graphic broken down to NH, but I think we all know that our situation doesn't match other areas of the country, or the world, yet. We could probably use a bit more local outrage about deaths due to drugs and alcohol.
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Old 06-08-2020, 02:13 PM   #16
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Hypocrisy may have been the wrong word choice...but I maintain that “numbers” are meaningless except for someone trying to justify an existence or looking to charge more for their product...(think insurance companies)
Whatever...
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Old 06-11-2020, 06:21 AM   #17
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Yes a "Chinese" virus lab created and released to the public - by mistake of course (the conspiracy has to account for the unfortunate fact that so many Chinese died)
I'm going to leave the rest of your diatribe alone, but you do realize there is the Chinese version of a BSL 4 lab in Wuhan. BSL 4s are where the nastiest viruses are studied.
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Old 06-11-2020, 06:34 AM   #18
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Default So what?

There are BSL-4 labs everywhere. I would guess in over 30 countries.

My goodness, there's a BSL-4 lab in China? that must obviously mean it came the virus was completely engineered from there! Oh I forgot. That 's the conspiracy, right?

There are train tracks in Mongolia. Obviously Mongolia invented trains, right?


The virus originated in bats. MERS used Camels as an intermediate host. SARS used pigs and the intermediate host. The intermediate host has not yet been found for COVID-19 but most likely will be. It was not engineered in a lab. Stop inventing foolishness.

By the way, I have noticed an abnormally high number of politicians in Washington DC. They must be made there!
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Old 06-11-2020, 06:54 AM   #19
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There are BSL-4 labs everywhere. I would guess in over 30 countries.

My goodness, there's a BSL-4 lab in China? that must obviously mean it came the virus was completely engineered from there! Oh I forgot. That 's the conspiracy, right?

There are train tracks in Mongolia. Obviously Mongolia invented trains, right?


The virus originated in bats. MERS used Camels as an intermediate host. SARS used pigs and the intermediate host. The intermediate host has not yet been found for COVID-19 but most likely will be. It was not engineered in a lab. Stop inventing foolishness.

By the way, I have noticed an abnormally high number of politicians in Washington DC. They must be made there!
Is this how you have talk to people in your everyday life? There are not BSL 4s "everywhere". Unlike you, I will wait until the dust settles before making conclusions. I merely noted that there is a BSL 4 there and that they work on nasty stuff. I'm not spreading conspiracy theories, merely noting that mistakes sometimes happen.
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Old 06-11-2020, 06:59 AM   #20
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Come to think of it, I know that there are BSL-4 Labs in California. No joke, they get a lot of earthquakes there. More than most places. The data speaks for itself. We need to take a closer look at this....
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Old 06-11-2020, 09:32 AM   #21
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Come to think of it, I know that there are BSL-4 Labs in California. No joke, they get a lot of earthquakes there. More than most places. The data speaks for itself. We need to take a closer look at this....
No question, many people don't realize what is near them. Earthquakes should have been high on their list of potential vulnerabilities during their risk assessment. They would have to mitigate it in some way to gain all of the sign-offs. Without those approvals, it won't get funded.

You should be able to see the risk assessment and siting report or at least key excerpts and peer commentary unless it is military.
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Old 06-11-2020, 11:09 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Hillcountry View Post
The hypocrisy here is stunning...
Where is the outrage for the “numbers” of “real people” that die every day of a hundred other causes including whatever other “flu” is killing them?
Where is the outrage for “real people” that are dying trying to protect, as police officers, the public?
Where is the outrage for “real people” dying of cancer every hour because of the tobacco companies.
Where is the outrage about mass looting and destruction of lives and property being perpetrated by paid agitators ?
Where is the outrage about an entire city preparing to not “just de-fund” but ELIMINATE ENTIRELY, a police department?
Ad nauseum...
There is no outrage
We, as a country, have been duped by the government and media to be “woke” about “numbers” from a man-made virus perpetrated upon us by some Chinese “scientists” that were careless as well as the CCP allowing this virus to be transmitted to the world by hiding it and preparing for mass profiteering because they held products that would be needed by the world.
Screw “the numbers” as I, for one, am tired of hearing about them.

Exactly.

My neighbor, now retired, was in fact a card carrying member of the Deep State.

He worked for the gubmint. Had some sort of legitimate title. But in reality was far up in the deep state.

I heard anecdotal stories.
His mother mentioned one time at his home in Virginia. Two men knocked on door - and the son - my neighbor - had a suitcase prepacked. And he was off for 2 weeks. To some obscure country near the Soviet border.

Very few mentions of his "secret" life.

For all, I would look closely at your town officials. And attempt to guess which ones are working for the deep state.

They are out there !
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Old 06-11-2020, 11:43 AM   #23
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Screw “the numbers” as I, for one, am tired of hearing about them.
I wish we paid more attention to numbers. Instead, we too often rely on "our gut" to make so many decisions. Numbers don't lie - but yes, they can be interpreted in different ways.
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Old 06-11-2020, 12:07 PM   #24
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Default Second Wave

Coronavirus second wave forecast seems all too real. We are canceling our trip up this season. We're 76 and not willing to take a chance!
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Old 06-11-2020, 12:18 PM   #25
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Default Deep State

How do I know if I'm the Deep State or not? Seem to be everywhere and yet so many people are unaware. I may be in it but may not realize I'm in it.
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Old 06-11-2020, 01:28 PM   #26
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Is this how you have talk to people in your everyday life? There are not BSL 4s "everywhere". Unlike you, I will wait until the dust settles before making conclusions. I merely noted that there is a BSL 4 there and that they work on nasty stuff. I'm not spreading conspiracy theories, merely noting that mistakes sometimes happen.
I disagree. When you pair two things the way that you did, you suggest there is a connection. Further, when you deny making a conclusion, you plant the seeds for someone less rigorous than yourself to make that very conclusion. I do not know your intention, but that is exactly how conspiracy theories get spread.
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Old 06-11-2020, 02:49 PM   #27
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1.35 Million die each year in auto accidents...….why are we still allowed to drive?


And every year there are advancements made in vehicle safety. Certain roadways are limited use, child seats are required...Everyday people are pulled over and cited for speeding, not wearing seatbelts, cellular phone use, etc... It’s hardly ignored.


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Old 06-11-2020, 06:33 PM   #28
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Coronavirus second wave forecast seems all too real. We are canceling our trip up this season. We're 76 and not willing to take a chance!
I'm glad you are free to make that choice.

If, from the beginning, we all had the freedom to make similar choices, like going to church or continuing to earn a living, instead of governors claiming the right to decide for us all, I think we'd be in a much better place. There's something to be said for what used to be the American way.
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Old 06-11-2020, 08:58 PM   #29
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I wish we paid more attention to numbers. Instead, we too often rely on "our gut" to make so many decisions. Numbers don't lie - but yes, they can be interpreted in different ways.
The numbers being reported today that 26 states have shown an increase in cases. Most all opened up in the past month. Several like AZ and TX were up 40% and are now in a more very serious pandemic. How could that be? The stock market didn't care. The Dow only dropped a bit short of 2000 points. No it looks ok going forward. America keep doing what you are doing. Every thing will be Ok.
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Old 06-11-2020, 10:35 PM   #30
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The numbers being reported today that 26 states have shown an increase in cases. Most all opened up in the past month. Several like AZ and TX were up 40% and are now in a more very serious pandemic. How could that be? The stock market didn't care. The Dow only dropped a bit short of 2000 points. No it looks ok going forward. America keep doing what you are doing. Every thing will be Ok.
A facetious voice of reason is still a voice of reason I suppose, so agreed, get back to normal already.
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Old 06-12-2020, 06:02 AM   #31
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I disagree. When you pair two things the way that you did, you suggest there is a connection. Further, when you deny making a conclusion, you plant the seeds for someone less rigorous than yourself to make that very conclusion. I do not know your intention, but that is exactly how conspiracy theories get spread.
I am not saying or suggesting that the Chinese government created CV19 and were trying to weaponize it or released it on purpose. I noted that a mistake or accident may have happened in their BSL 4 in response to another poster mocking the possibility. That is a theory that needs to be investigated. However, I certainly believe that the Chinese government would try to cover up an accidental release.

There is an excellent book named "Midnight at Chernobyl" that illustrates the lengths that a communist government will go to to save face with their citizens and the rest of the world. The Soviets did not want unit 4 to meltdown, they just didn't want anyone to know that it did.
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Old 06-12-2020, 07:38 AM   #32
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Default Possible, but not probable

In these times of waking up to systemic racism, all I am asking is to really think about your assertions and see if the theory "hangs together". This theory really doesn't
There have been 3 novel Coronavirus pandemics this century.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/art...-with-covid-19

In 2002 SARS (Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome) arose in Guangdong Province of China and has an estimated mortality rate of 10%. Alpha host was bats and human transition host was the pig

In 2012 MERS (Middle East Respiratory Syndrome) arose in Saudi Arabia in 2012 and has an estimated mortality rate of 35%. Alpha host was bats and human transition host was (most likely) camels

In 2018 COVID-19 arose in Wuhan province China and has an estimated mortality rate of TBD (2%-3.5%). Alpha host was bats and human transmission host is TBD (perhaps the pangolin).

There is no real reason to believe that there was a deliberate or accidental release of this virus any more than the other two. It is a fact that there is a BSL-4 lab in Wuhan. This simple fact and not another shred of proof has ever been offered other than that. There is nothing about this virus that makes it look like it was engineered (see: https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucele.../#df6e0053728c )(https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-u-s-spies-say ) And there surely are a good number of BSL-4 labs hanging around this world (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biosaf...L-4_facilities)

Here's the thing, a release from a BSL-4 lab has happened, and can happen again for sure. But before we go there, what are we looking at?
We have had 3 novel Coronaviruses outbreaks in 20 years, and does this one look any different than the other two? No. The other two were originally found and transmitted by bats, and so is this one. The other two had an intermediate host, and so will this one. It looks more similar than different. Finally I will refer you to the "some information that helps" posting showing the genetic relationship of this one to the others. Nothing special there, either.

So why no assertions of deliberate or accidental "seeding" for the other two? Well, maybe it's because there was no BSL-4 lab at the origin? OR maybe there wasn't such a negative and charged animosity going-on at the time between our two countries like there is now. Having spent time in China I can tell you that there are only two things that matter there -(1) Making money and (2) Assuring continued power and control by the totalitarian government. Neither of these objectives are met by a deliberate release.
Would an accidental release be covered up by the government? Well yes of course! The accidental release of the highly lethal Ebola-related Marburg virus (Reston variant) in the United States in 1989 was covered-up by the U.S. Government and not made public until 1994. And a virus from Africa spread by monkeys spontaneously arising in Virginia definitely doesn't seem natural. So although it could happen for sure, if it was a mistake they did a great job of picking the virus, duplicating other novel Coronavirus eruptions. Given the number of virus "nasties" they have there, if it was a random accident the stars aligned well to make it look natural - it could have been smallpox!
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Old 06-12-2020, 07:49 AM   #33
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The numbers being reported today that 26 states have shown an increase in cases. Most all opened up in the past month. Several like AZ and TX were up 40% and are now in a more very serious pandemic. How could that be? The stock market didn't care. The Dow only dropped a bit short of 2000 points. No it looks ok going forward. America keep doing what you are doing. Every thing will be Ok.
What does the stock market have to do with the virus?

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Old 06-12-2020, 09:28 AM   #34
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In these times of waking up to systemic racism, all I am asking is to really think about your assertions and see if the theory "hangs together". This theory really doesn't
There have been 3 novel Coronavirus pandemics this century.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/art...-with-covid-19

In 2002 SARS (Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome) arose in Guangdong Province of China and has an estimated mortality rate of 10%. Alpha host was bats and human transition host was the pig

In 2012 MERS (Middle East Respiratory Syndrome) arose in Saudi Arabia in 2012 and has an estimated mortality rate of 35%. Alpha host was bats and human transition host was (most likely) camels

In 2018 COVID-19 arose in Wuhan province China and has an estimated mortality rate of TBD (2%-3.5%). Alpha host was bats and human transmission host is TBD (perhaps the pangolin).

There is no real reason to believe that there was a deliberate or accidental release of this virus any more than the other two. It is a fact that there is a BSL-4 lab in Wuhan. This simple fact and not another shred of proof has ever been offered other than that. There is nothing about this virus that makes it look like it was engineered (see: https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucele.../#df6e0053728c )(https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-u-s-spies-say ) And there surely are a good number of BSL-4 labs hanging around this world (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biosaf...L-4_facilities)

Here's the thing, a release from a BSL-4 lab has happened, and can happen again for sure. But before we go there, what are we looking at?
We have had 3 novel Coronaviruses outbreaks in 20 years, and does this one look any different than the other two? No. The other two were originally found and transmitted by bats, and so is this one. The other two had an intermediate host, and so will this one. It looks more similar than different. Finally I will refer you to the "some information that helps" posting showing the genetic relationship of this one to the others. Nothing special there, either.

So why no assertions of deliberate or accidental "seeding" for the other two? Well, maybe it's because there was no BSL-4 lab at the origin? OR maybe there wasn't such a negative and charged animosity going-on at the time between our two countries like there is now. Having spent time in China I can tell you that there are only two things that matter there -(1) Making money and (2) Assuring continued power and control by the totalitarian government. Neither of these objectives are met by a deliberate release.
Would an accidental release be covered up by the government? Well yes of course! The accidental release of the highly lethal Ebola-related Marburg virus (Reston variant) in the United States in 1989 was covered-up by the U.S. Government and not made public until 1994. And a virus from Africa spread by monkeys spontaneously arising in Virginia definitely doesn't seem natural. So although it could happen for sure, if it was a mistake they did a great job of picking the virus, duplicating other novel Coronavirus eruptions. Given the number of virus "nasties" they have there, if it was a random accident the stars aligned well to make it look natural - it could have been smallpox!
My comments had zero to do with racism, systematic or otherwise. I also work in China, agree with your statements about them, and know that the Chinese government wants as many consumers of their goods on the planet as possible. I am not making assertions- I have merely stated that there is a BSL 4 in Wuhan and it is widely believed that the CV19 outbreak started in that city. Coincidence? Very possible, but in any investigation, all leads need to be followed.

If you want to think I am sitting in my office with a tin foil hat on, so be it. I comment on things I have first hand knowledge about. I have worked on 2 completed and operating US BSL 4s in the past 10 years and am working on another right now.
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Old 06-12-2020, 12:19 PM   #35
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My comments had zero to do with racism, systematic or otherwise. I also work in China, agree with your statements about them, and know that the Chinese government wants as many consumers of their goods on the planet as possible. I am not making assertions- I have merely stated that there is a BSL 4 in Wuhan and it is widely believed that the CV19 outbreak started in that city. Coincidence? Very possible, but in any investigation, all leads need to be followed.

If you want to think I am sitting in my office with a tin foil hat on, so be it. I comment on things I have first hand knowledge about. I have worked on 2 completed and operating US BSL 4s in the past 10 years and am working on another right now.
I appreciate your experience, and I'm pretty sure that everything you've said is correct in the strict sense. The problem that I have is the context. To me and many other people, the Trump administration has worked hard to deflect blame for the crisis in the US by pointing fingers at anybody else available. One of those fingers has been pointed at China. That particular finger has vaguely racist overtones.

I trust you recognize this as a pretty standard part of the Trump playbook, and also from some posts here that gratuitously drop in China with every mention of the virus and also take every chance possible to blame someone other than the WH. I'm not saying your posts are part of a political calculation, only that they echo those of some very calculating politicians.
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