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Old 03-21-2020, 11:09 AM   #1
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Default NH Electric Coop Broadband Petition

Please Sign the NHEC Broadband Petition

Each May the New Hampshire Electric Coop holds an election for directors. NHEC bylaws allow questions proposed by member petition to be included on the ballot. This petition requests that a question be included on the 2020 ballot which specifically adds “facilitating access to broadband Internet for members" to NHEC’s charter.

Sign Petition Here

Even before the coronavirus pandemic, it was increasingly obvious that lack of affordable, high-speed internet in rural New Hampshire is a serious impediment to communities’ economic development, education, interpersonal and community communication, access to fast-growing telehealth services, and everyday quality of life.

The current pandemic crisis brings home as never before how vital broadband communication is. When in-person contacts, meetings, school sessions, medical appointments, and even visits to the library and restaurants grind to a halt, the Internet is the glue that holds society together.

That gives this petition drive special urgency. NHEC members have an opportunity to do something concrete and meaningful to address this pressing need. We need your signature, to help make reliable, affordable broadband an achievable goal for small towns that are currently under served as well as areas controlled by expensive cable monopolies.
Let us explain why this petition drive is necessary.

Fiber broadband developers will tell you the most difficult part of providing Internet service in rural areas is not the cost of the fiber but rather the uncertainties in getting permission to attach to utility poles and associated costs. With control of its poles and rights-of-way, NHEC is uniquely positioned to facilitate the development of fiber to the homes and businesses of its member-owners by providing certainty and predictability to the attachment process.

NHEC doesn’t need to finance, own or operate a fiber network to facilitate others to develop systems. It just needs to make attaching fiber to NHEC poles straightforward, predictable and affordable.

This amendment would explicitly state, in the foundational documents of the organization, that NHEC sees facilitating the development of broadband as part of its core mission. Since it is member owned, NHEC has an opportunity and obligation to go beyond the base regulatory requirements imposed by the Public Utility Commission. The Coop should proactively encourage broadband developers to service its members.

Over 100 electric cooperatives across the country are actively involved in facilitating affordable (+/-$60/month) high speed (+/-100 Mbps up/down) fiber to the home. Shouldn’t NHEC join those cooperatives? If you believe this, please sign this electronic petition to put the question on the ballot and Vote YES on the question when you receive your ballot from NHEC in your May electric bill.

Concerned NHEC Members
Sign Petition Here

PS: Please pass a link to this website along to other NHEC members or post it to message boards or Facebook pages frequented by NHEC members. We need a lot of signatures
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Old 03-21-2020, 11:17 AM   #2
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Signed...we do have Xfinity here but a more affordable option would be welcomed.
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Old 03-21-2020, 11:29 AM   #3
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Signed...we do have Xfinity here but a more affordable option would be welcomed.
Ditto........
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Old 03-21-2020, 11:35 AM   #4
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Me too! A great thing all around
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Old 03-21-2020, 12:32 PM   #5
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Me three
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Old 03-26-2020, 12:01 PM   #6
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I'm confused.

"NHEC doesn’t need to finance, own or operate a fiber network to facilitate others to develop systems. It just needs to make attaching fiber to NHEC poles straightforward, predictable and affordable."



NHEC already has fiber on its poles; not its fiber, but fiber from telephone, cable, companies, and probably some segments for wireless companies.

I built a new house, here, on Moultonboro Neck Rd., and had to pay for the two poles on my property for the electric service. On the poles with metal plate that states NHEC, not the phone company. I also have Spectrum's cable and the phone company's cable (Consolidated Consumer). Obviously, those poles are connected to infrastructure poles on the street. Fiber has been used for years by the phone companies and cable companies, and placed on poles in the "right-of-way". I can remember when I worked for Fairpoint, when they bought NH, ME, and VT from Verizon, the millions spent by Fairpoint to put out fiber on the poles, and replace copper.

Is this petition suggesting to have NHEC install fiber on poles, even though it cannot use fiber to service electricity to homes and business????

Petition:
"BROADBAND QUESTION

Shall the New Hampshire Electric Cooperative amend Article II of its Certificate of Organization dated 18 July 1939 by adding the words “including facilitating access to broadband internet for members” to make the amended article read as follows:

The purposes for which the Association is formed are to generate, purchase, transmit and distribute electrical energy and to render any and all other services in connection therewith including facilitating access to broadband internet for members as provided in Section 3-a of the “Co-operative Marketing Law”.

Does that exclude non-members?

COOP "laws" are meaningless, relative to state and federal law, not to mention the PUC .

The biggest problems I had with poles, was who is going to own ... phone company or NHEC. Phone company had to be chased to get poles here, but to be installed by NHEC. Had to be pay for the poles, and the copper wire ($22/ft.) to NHEC, and I still had to pay "lease" fees to the phone company for my landline.

I'm getting @ 325-350 Mbps from Spectrum for broadband. I canceled landline, and went back Voice-Over-IP for phone with Spectrum; much less costly. I purposely had the three lines, cable, phone, electric on the electric poles for possible future market competitions; e.g., Gfast for the present DSL which is too slow for my liking.

Need to keep an eye on wireless (fixed and mobile) and satellite broadband (not today's), as well, for competition.

Need poles and fiber ... time and markets will tell.

If the bylaws mention install electric lines only, what's wrong with that, at this time? That doesn't mean it can stop other companies from installing on the poles, when the public good requires it. State and federal laws make that happen, and have.
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Old 03-26-2020, 03:14 PM   #7
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Access to Utility Poles for FTTH Providers

Federal:
47 U.S.C. § 224(d)(3). The Pole Attachment Act authorizes states to preempt federal regulation by electing to regulate pole attachments themselves, and 19 states have chosen this option. As of this writing (2013) the following states have elected to regulate pole attachments: Alaska, Arkansas, California, Connecticut, Delaware, the District of Columbia, Idaho, Illinois, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Oregon, Utah, Vermont and Washington.

NH:
NEW HAMPSHIRE CODE OF ADMINISTRATIVE RULES
Puc 1300 CHAPTER Puc 1300 UTILITY POLE ATTACHMENTS

Puc 1301.01 Purpose. The purpose of Puc 1300, pursuant to the mandate of RSA 374:34-a, is to ensure rates, charges, terms, and conditions for pole attachments that are nondiscriminatory, just, and reasonable. Nothing in this rule shall be construed to supersede, overrule, or replace any other law, rule, or regulation, including municipal and state authority over public highways pursuant to RSA 231:159, et seq


RSA 374:34-a Pole Attachments. –
I. In this subdivision, a "pole" means any pole, duct, conduit, or right-of-way that is used for wire communications or electricity distribution and is owned in whole or in part by a public utility, including a rural electric cooperative for which a certificate of deregulation is on file with the commission pursuant to RSA 301:57.

II. Whenever a pole owner is unable to reach agreement with a party seeking pole attachments, the commission shall regulate and enforce rates, charges, terms, and conditions for such pole attachments, with regard to the types of attachments regulated under 47 U.S.C. section 224, to provide that such rates, charges, terms, and conditions are just and reasonable. This authority shall include but not be limited to the state regulatory authority referenced in 47 U.S.C. section 224(c).

IV. In exercising its authority under this subdivision, the commission shall consider the interests of the subscribers and users of the services offered via such attachments, as well as the interests of the consumers of any pole owner providing such attachments.

V. Nothing in this subdivision shall prevent parties from entering into pole attachment agreements voluntarily, without commission approval.

VII. The commission shall have the authority to hear and resolve complaints concerning rates, charges, terms, conditions, voluntary agreements, or any denial of access relative to pole attachments.
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Old 03-31-2020, 09:30 AM   #8
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Adding third party fiber to poles almost always requires the electric company to move up the height of their wires which depending on the height of the pole may require a new pole, and in rural areas there’s a lot of old short poles that could need to be replaced with taller poles. This cost isn’t swallowed by the electric company. My guess is a third party wants to do this but doesn’t like the price from the coop to do their work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by longislander View Post
I'm confused.

"NHEC doesn’t need to finance, own or operate a fiber network to facilitate others to develop systems. It just needs to make attaching fiber to NHEC poles straightforward, predictable and affordable."



NHEC already has fiber on its poles; not its fiber, but fiber from telephone, cable, companies, and probably some segments for wireless companies.

I built a new house, here, on Moultonboro Neck Rd., and had to pay for the two poles on my property for the electric service. On the poles with metal plate that states NHEC, not the phone company. I also have Spectrum's cable and the phone company's cable (Consolidated Consumer). Obviously, those poles are connected to infrastructure poles on the street. Fiber has been used for years by the phone companies and cable companies, and placed on poles in the "right-of-way". I can remember when I worked for Fairpoint, when they bought NH, ME, and VT from Verizon, the millions spent by Fairpoint to put out fiber on the poles, and replace copper.

Is this petition suggesting to have NHEC install fiber on poles, even though it cannot use fiber to service electricity to homes and business????

Petition:
"BROADBAND QUESTION

Shall the New Hampshire Electric Cooperative amend Article II of its Certificate of Organization dated 18 July 1939 by adding the words “including facilitating access to broadband internet for members” to make the amended article read as follows:

The purposes for which the Association is formed are to generate, purchase, transmit and distribute electrical energy and to render any and all other services in connection therewith including facilitating access to broadband internet for members as provided in Section 3-a of the “Co-operative Marketing Law”.

Does that exclude non-members?

COOP "laws" are meaningless, relative to state and federal law, not to mention the PUC .

The biggest problems I had with poles, was who is going to own ... phone company or NHEC. Phone company had to be chased to get poles here, but to be installed by NHEC. Had to be pay for the poles, and the copper wire ($22/ft.) to NHEC, and I still had to pay "lease" fees to the phone company for my landline.

I'm getting @ 325-350 Mbps from Spectrum for broadband. I canceled landline, and went back Voice-Over-IP for phone with Spectrum; much less costly. I purposely had the three lines, cable, phone, electric on the electric poles for possible future market competitions; e.g., Gfast for the present DSL which is too slow for my liking.

Need to keep an eye on wireless (fixed and mobile) and satellite broadband (not today's), as well, for competition.

Need poles and fiber ... time and markets will tell.

If the bylaws mention install electric lines only, what's wrong with that, at this time? That doesn't mean it can stop other companies from installing on the poles, when the public good requires it. State and federal laws make that happen, and have.
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Old 03-31-2020, 10:31 AM   #9
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"Adding third party fiber to poles almost always requires the electric company to move up the height of their wires ..."

Do not believe this statement to be accurate! Poles and their use, have evolved with time. Surely, electric lines were at the top of poles before fiber lines were even thought of.

SEE,

"Very few utility poles are used for just one utility. Poles that house multiple services, like power, telephone, and cable, are called joint poles and are covered by strict safety rules that separate the utilities spatially."

https://hackaday.com/2016/02/22/a-fi...-utility-pole/


https://www.aep.com/assets/docs/safe...20Pole_AEP.pdf

"On poles carrying both electrical and communications wiring, the electric power distribution lines and associated equipment are mounted at the top of the pole above the communication cables, for safety."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_pole


"3. Utility pole wires carry more than just electricity

You may have noticed that utility poles have many wires. But not all carry electricity. Usually, the top three wires — which are called primary conductors — carry most of the electricity on the pole."

https://www.electrocuted.com/2016/09...ty-pole-facts/
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Old 03-31-2020, 11:26 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longislander View Post
"Adding third party fiber to poles almost always requires the electric company to move up the height of their wires ..."

Do not believe this statement to be accurate! Poles and their use, have evolved with time. Surely, electric lines were at the top of poles before fiber lines were even thought of.

SEE,

"Very few utility poles are used for just one utility. Poles that house multiple services, like power, telephone, and cable, are called joint poles and are covered by strict safety rules that separate the utilities spatially."

https://hackaday.com/2016/02/22/a-fi...-utility-pole/


https://www.aep.com/assets/docs/safe...20Pole_AEP.pdf

"On poles carrying both electrical and communications wiring, the electric power distribution lines and associated equipment are mounted at the top of the pole above the communication cables, for safety."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_pole


"3. Utility pole wires carry more than just electricity

You may have noticed that utility poles have many wires. But not all carry electricity. Usually, the top three wires — which are called primary conductors — carry most of the electricity on the pole."

https://www.electrocuted.com/2016/09...ty-pole-facts/
His point was that if you add another conductor that needs separation from the existing conductors, there needs to be room. You can't keep installing new technology conductors closer to the ground. So, the pole needs to grow or the existing non-electrical conductors need to be reworked on the pole. Either option will cost someone $$.
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Old 03-31-2020, 11:53 AM   #11
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"His point was that if you add another conductor that needs separation from the existing conductors, there needs to be room."

Original comment:
"Adding third party fiber to poles almost always requires the electric company to move up the height of their wires"

His statement was moving electric lines up, not your interpretation.

Neither are close to accurate.

"So, the pole needs to grow or the existing non-electrical conductors need to be reworked on the pole

You're kidding right!!!!

I'm a retiree from the phone company. I was personally involved with "moving" all of the fiber that Fairpoint installed in NH, and most of Vermont; a good deal of Maine as well, to its garages for installation. Not saying I know everything about fiber installation, but not just bloviating either.
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Old 03-31-2020, 12:48 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longislander View Post
"His point was that if you add another conductor that needs separation from the existing conductors, there needs to be room."

Original comment:
"Adding third party fiber to poles almost always requires the electric company to move up the height of their wires"

His statement was moving electric lines up, not your interpretation.

Neither are close to accurate.

"So, the pole needs to grow or the existing non-electrical conductors need to be reworked on the pole

You're kidding right!!!!

I'm a retiree from the phone company. I was personally involved with "moving" all of the fiber that Fairpoint installed in NH, and most of Vermont; a good deal of Maine as well, to its garages for installation. Not saying I know everything about fiber installation, but not just bloviating either.
You often cannot install a 4th technology to a pole by just stringing it below the CATV wiring that is below the TELCO wiring, which is below the electrical wiring. There may not be enough clearance above grade, so someone will need to pay to do some rearranging. It sounds like NHEC believes they will need to spend money on something that, while it may benefit some of their members, is not part of their core mission.
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Old 03-31-2020, 01:23 PM   #13
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"You often cannot install a 4th technology ..."

Says who!

Please provide ... just one ... example, preferably an internet link of some credibility.

The cost of installation will be paid by the installer, if approved via agreement or the PUC if challenged.

The NHEC is not in the internet business. Most electric companies have decided not to jump into the fray ... wisely, in my humble opinion. They would/will use the existing wires, including the wiring in your house/busioness. Just plug into the AC connector on the wall!

https://broadbandnow.com/Powerline

Many years ago, I believe the last problem was getting around the transformer.

Maybe you should try bringing up mobile or fixed wireless or some other technology that has already been incorporated, in some areas, with no problem about "growing poles".

Why should NHEC spend COOP member money on something it will not use? Should they spend money on pavingf the roads the poles are on?


PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
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Old 03-31-2020, 03:08 PM   #14
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Migaud, people need to take a break from their computers....
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Old 03-31-2020, 03:45 PM   #15
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Migaud, people need to take a break from their computers....
Are we pointing out the threads of three pagers and more?
Are we talking about a break from the Covid-19 posts?
Are we talking about the political positioning posts/threads?

Or, are we trying to stifle opinions you don't like, like this thread?

Debate is healthy, in some schools of thought, especially if they include some facts, rather than just opinion.

Either way ... if you don't like reading threads that demonstrate differing opinions ... some with facts, not just opinion... move on! You've just ventured your opinion.

Maybe, start another petition in futility, as is what started this thread!
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Old 03-31-2020, 05:22 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longislander View Post
"You often cannot install a 4th technology ..."

Says who!

Please provide ... just one ... example, preferably an internet link of some credibility.

The cost of installation will be paid by the installer, if approved via agreement or the PUC if challenged.

The NHEC is not in the internet business. Most electric companies have decided not to jump into the fray ... wisely, in my humble opinion. They would/will use the existing wires, including the wiring in your house/busioness. Just plug into the AC connector on the wall!

https://broadbandnow.com/Powerline

Many years ago, I believe the last problem was getting around the transformer.

Maybe you should try bringing up mobile or fixed wireless or some other technology that has already been incorporated, in some areas, with no problem about "growing poles".

Why should NHEC spend COOP member money on something it will not use? Should they spend money on pavingf the roads the poles are on?


PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
I'm not sure why you are all spun up. The NHEC apparently does not want yet another contractor on their poles. It is a simple as that!

I designed and engineered a perimeter intrusion detection system that uses SM fiber as a detector (along with other technologies). We installed it at three nuclear plants last year and are installing at three more this year. Our fiber infrastructure runs within 30' of the 230KV and 500KV lines coming out of the turbine building. I understand power and fiber!
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Old 03-31-2020, 05:50 PM   #17
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The NHEC apparently does not want yet another contractor on their poles. It is a simple as that!
Where did you find this? Is this part of the 2/3rds vote needed by NHEC members?

Quote:
Our fiber infrastructure runs within 30' of the 230KV and 500KV lines coming out of the turbine building. I understand power and fiber!
What does that have to do with electric/phone company poles?


Quote:
I designed and engineered a perimeter intrusion detection system
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perime...tection_system

I'm impressed.

SM fiber v. Multimode fiber ... What financial analysis did you come with, for your application? Which do you think is more more apropos for FTTH?

Anyone can Google "words"

Did you put on poles ? Did you bury it? Or put on a fence?

Quote:
I understand power and fiber!
You haven't demonstrated that!

Which nuclear plants? Maybe it would help to review what you did.
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Old 03-31-2020, 08:05 PM   #18
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Where did you find this? Is this part of the 2/3rds vote needed by NHEC members?

What does that have to do with electric/phone company poles?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perime...tection_system

I'm impressed.

SM fiber v. Multimode fiber ... What financial analysis did you come with, for your application? Which do you think is more more apropos for FTTH?

Anyone can Google "words"

Did you put on poles ? Did you bury it? Or put on a fence?

You haven't demonstrated that!

Which nuclear plants? Maybe it would help to review what you did.
I'm not going to answer basic fiber questions so you can test my knowledge. I am not going to discuss even vague details about the system here. I am certainly not going to list my clients to further validate myself.

I hope someone pulls fiber in town. I just don't want it costing the NHEC money, because it costs me money. I have 3 poles coming up my driveway, so I'm sure it would not be cheap getting in in.

This is an organization I belong to. Website is a little dated but good info. https://www.thefoa.org/tech/ref/basic/fiber.html
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Old 04-01-2020, 08:37 AM   #19
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I am certainly not going to list my clients to further validate myself.
I'm not interested in your clients. I'm interested in where more nuclear power plants are being built.

Quote:
I hope someone pulls fiber in town. I just don't want it costing the NHEC money, because it costs me money.
Here's something we agree on. I, also, do not want NHEC stringing fiber. Maybe you should re-read the petition that started this thread:

Quote:
“Fiber broadband developers will tell you the most difficult part of providing Internet service in rural areas is not the cost of the fiber but rather the uncertainties in getting permission to attach to utility poles and associated costs. "
Bull----!

RSA 374-34-a
VI. Any pole owner shall provide nondiscriminatory access to its poles for the types of attachments regulated under this subdivision.

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/...4/374-34-a.htm

Quote:
I have 3 poles coming up my driveway, so I'm sure it would not be cheap getting in in.

I built a new house here in Moultonborough two years ago, and have two NHEC poles running parallel to my driveway (@ 600ft. from the pole on the State road). The poles were a couple hundred bucks, if I remember correctly. The copper was $22/linear ft. The phone company cable and Spectrum cable ran their cables, on the poles, for nominal fees. They may have been free.

I'd rather see a petition on, why does a customer have to pay for infrastructure (poles and copper wire) owed by an other entity, and will be billed for service it provides. I'm referring to NHEC.

Yes, I did run a phone line on the poles along the driveway and underground from the pole to the house, with the other lines. I'm keeping an eye on Gfast (long term) (Ya I know DSL). I am using Voice-Over-IP for phone.


Quote:
This is an organization I belong to. Website is a little dated but good info. https://www.thefoa.org/tech/ref/basic/fiber.html
Good for you. However, listing organizational URL's don't provide assurance in expertise, in the implied discipline. Google can do that as well.

https://www.thefoa.org/tech/ref/basic/fiber.html

https://fiberu.org/

https://www.otelco.com/resources/a-g...ptic-internet/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-mode_optical_fiber


Have a nice day!
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Old 04-01-2020, 09:20 AM   #20
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"You often cannot install a 4th technology ..."

https://broadbandnow.com/Powerline

PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Broadband over Power Lines (aka BPL) is a *very* bad technology, and it fortunately has not been widely deployed.

The only way to provide reliable, very high speed Internet access to lots of users over a wide area is via fiber.

I owned an Internet Service Provider business in the mid-late 1990s. At that time, dialup was still king, DSL was just getting going (at least in my area), and the cable companies were not yet offering Internet access. I had about 3000 dialup customers, about 100 56k DDS customers, and about 25 T-1 customers (1.5 megabits). The problem has always been the "last mile".

Wireless works to some degree, but you need a lot of interconnected access points to make it viable for large numbers of users and still provide high bandwidth. And there is generally a fiber backbone involved.

Even Comcast, at least where I am located, uses physical cable from the street to the house (or a cluster of houses), but the backbone is still fiber and it works very well (albeit, it is expensive).

As compared to Comcast, I find Spectrum (which I have in Tuftonboro) to be quite reasonable. My only complaint is that, after a while, Spectrum will actively throttle network ports that are using a lot of bandwidth. I have a VPN between there and here, and I have to change the VPN port from time to time to get around the throttling. When the port usage stops or slows down, the throttling is lifted. I have not run into this with Comcast.
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Old 04-01-2020, 12:17 PM   #21
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You can believe what you want to believe, I did not post that as some uninformed reader with an opinion, I’m in the industry and not as any sort of company management that would be siding with the utility.

Communications cables have been attached to poles pretty much since their inception yes, but every new piece of third party communication line goes higher on the pole, never lower, telephone is at the bottom always because they are co owners of the pole and have to be the last to transfer so they can remove the old pole.

Also safety standards have evolved continuously since the first communications lines were hung, the NESC which electric utilities follow as their code book have been constantly evolving requiring greater and greater minimum approach distances for electrically non-qualified workers. Voltages are ever increasing, back at the dawn of the electric age you had mostly 4000 volt primary systems, that allowed minimum approach distances to be less, hence the ability to install shorter poles. Over the years the voltages throughout the country have increased greatly especially in New Hampshire where you see 34,000 volt primary systems as the majority of what’s running down roads.

What started as the electric company and the telephone/ telegraph company on the poles has changed to include cable tv, private fiber optics for business and towns and colleges, municipal fire alarm, all with a minimum requirement for spacing between each other.

The primary wires you see at the top of the pole aren’t the only wires we have on the pole, adding fiber always requires us to move or secondary wires, that’s what our transformers feed into to give you voltage for your house.

You don’t have to buy anything I am saying, but what I am saying is true and any electric or telephone company as owners of the poles would not upgrade poles or move equipment for free.

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Originally Posted by longislander View Post
"Adding third party fiber to poles almost always requires the electric company to move up the height of their wires ..."

Do not believe this statement to be accurate! Poles and their use, have evolved with time. Surely, electric lines were at the top of poles before fiber lines were even thought of.

SEE,

"Very few utility poles are used for just one utility. Poles that house multiple services, like power, telephone, and cable, are called joint poles and are covered by strict safety rules that separate the utilities spatially."

https://hackaday.com/2016/02/22/a-fi...-utility-pole/


https://www.aep.com/assets/docs/safe...20Pole_AEP.pdf


"On poles carrying both electrical and communications wiring, the electric power distribution lines and associated equipment are mounted at the top of the pole above the communication cables, for safety."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_pole


"3. Utility pole wires carry more than just electricity

You may have noticed that utility poles have many wires. But not all carry electricity. Usually, the top three wires — which are called primary conductors — carry most of the electricity on the pole."

https://www.electrocuted.com/2016/09...ty-pole-facts/
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Old 04-01-2020, 12:37 PM   #22
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HV, thanks for your calm, truthful and non emotional response.
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Old 04-01-2020, 01:09 PM   #23
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Communications cables have been attached to poles pretty much since their inception yes, but every new piece of third party communication line goes higher on the pole, never lower, telephone is at the bottom always because they are co owners of the pole and have to be the last to transfer so they can remove the old pole.
Maybe there's a communication breakdown. The electric lines are on top ... period. Go out and look at the poles outside your house, including through the insulators. It's easy to tell which is electric, look for attached to the transformer. New install here at the new house, is electric on top, and cable and phone below.

No lines were moved, but added at my house. I believe the same holds true for all of Moultonborough Neck Rd, a state road. The same held true when I worked for the phone company for 17 years.

Quote:
What started as the electric company and the telephone/ telegraph company on the poles has changed to include cable tv, private fiber optics for business and towns and colleges, municipal fire alarm, all with a minimum requirement for spacing between each other.
Separate companies doing their separate businesses. Regulated by state and federal regulations. Exception is cable companies whereby "cable" is regulated
but internet is not ... at this time. FCC gives guidance.


http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/...C-III-53-C.htm

Nobody does anything for free. The question is who pays for it.
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Old 04-01-2020, 01:34 PM   #24
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Broadband over Power Lines (aka BPL) is a *very* bad technology, and it fortunately has not been widely deployed.
You'll note on the link I provided that the distribution is ZERO!

Quote:
The only way to provide reliable, very high speed Internet access to lots of users over a wide area is via fiber.
In agreement, at this time.
However,

Starlink.
“Elon Musk said that the company had filed documents with international regulators to place about 4,000 satellites in low Earth orbit.

https://www.space.com/spacex-starlink-satellites.html

Jeff Bezos‘ Project Kuiper is ramping up plans to shoot more than 3,500 satellites into (low) orbit, but is yet to launch any.

https://thenextweb.com/hardfork/2020...-musk-back-on/

Microsoft Airband: An update on connecting rural America
https://news.microsoft.com/rural-broadband/

Market place will also have a say. Users of wireless phones do not have fiber extruding from their ears ... not yet anyway.

Quote:
The problem has always been the "last mile".
Agree.

"Last-mile technology is any telecommunications technology that carries signals from the broad telecommunication backbone along the relatively short distance (hence, the "last mile") to and from the home or business."

https://searchnetworking.techtarget....ile-technology

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_mile

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My only complaint is that, after a while, Spectrum will actively throttle network ports that are using a lot of bandwidth.
Probably.

Quote:
I have a VPN between there and here, and I have to change the VPN port from time to time to get around the throttling. When the port usage stops or slows down, the throttling is lifted. I have not run into this with Comcast.
Not only Spectrum but all ISP's, depending on what they can get away with, and their business plan. Look to the FCC for possible help. Netflix anyone!

I understand you're probably on "broadband" . One of my neighbors, who worked from home for Ratheon had trouble with his VPN. It had to do with his distance from DSLAM or “local office”, as he was on DSL.

You bring up good points!
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Old 04-01-2020, 04:56 PM   #25
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Maybe a breakdown on your end. I'm well aware of what's on top of the pole, I work with it daily. Perhaps I was too verbose in my last post so I will simplify for you.

1) Of course no lines would be moved, you've just added a house and the phone and cable company came out, tapped their lines and ran it up your driveway.

2)Third party additions to the pole (third party being someone other than telephone cable and electric) will almost always require the electric company to move at a bare minimum their secondary wires to comply with minimum approach distance (google minimum approach distance, OSHA has a whole section on it). If moving our secondaries breaks our minimum approach requirements to the primary than a new pole or a pole top extension will need to be set/installed

3) You worked at the phone company, you were the lowest wires on the pole, you would have nothing to do with what I described unless you were too high to begin with.
'

4. Who pays for it is cut and dry, 100% is billed to the company requesting the work to be done. Period.

And last, what was your job at the phone company? It doesn't sound like you were a lineman there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by longislander View Post
Maybe there's a communication breakdown. The electric lines are on top ... period. Go out and look at the poles outside your house, including through the insulators. It's easy to tell which is electric, look for attached to the transformer. New install here at the new house, is electric on top, and cable and phone below.

No lines were moved, but added at my house. I believe the same holds true for all of Moultonborough Neck Rd, a state road. The same held true when I worked for the phone company for 17 years.



Separate companies doing their separate businesses. Regulated by state and federal regulations. Exception is cable companies whereby "cable" is regulated
but internet is not ... at this time. FCC gives guidance.


http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/...C-III-53-C.htm

Nobody does anything for free. The question is who pays for it.
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Old 04-01-2020, 07:56 PM   #26
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Perhaps I was too verbose in my last post so I will simplify for you.
At least make it intelligible.

Quote:
third party being someone other than telephone cable and electric
Does that mean ... telephone or cable or electric; presumably cables (3)?

Or, is it telephone cable and electric? You said third party. I'm going to presume cable companies like Spectrum. Spectrum plus telephone plus electric make three types of cable; not all fiber.

There are three types of telephone cable at the poles on the street. The big bulky outside plant cable (e.g. 1800 pair, 2200 pair etc), telephone company fiber wire strapped to the outside plant, and then the "cable" that goes to the house from the street pole.

That makes four types of cable, from three businesses.

The three cables on the pole near my house have electric at top, Spectrum in the middle, and telephone (not outside plant) at the bottom on the two poles. The street poles always have the "outside plant" at the bottom and electric at the top, and Spectrum fiber and telephone fiber in the middle.

You said this:

Quote:
Communications cables have been attached to poles pretty much since their inception yes, but every new piece of third party communication line goes higher on the pole, never lower, telephone is at the bottom always because they are co owners of the pole and have to be the last to transfer so they can remove the old pole.
I'm going to presume, now, you didn't mean higher than electric.

Co-ownership of the poles may not be accurate, although there are legal issues that do come into play.

Quote:
minimum approach distance, OSHA
I've already stated the electric, phone, and the non-internet part of cable companies, are regulated. Following the regulations should be a no-brainer.

Quote:
And last, what was your job at the phone company? It doesn't sound like you were a lineman there.
No, I was not a lineman. I did interface with linemen almost daily, however.

I was hired by the phone company at age fifty. I considered myself semi-retired. My background and work experience, was in what was considered high-tech years ago. 18 years at Wang Laboratories , a computer company; then went to a small phone company parts manufacturer and became plant manager; when Plantronics sold the company, went to and managed a small manufacturing company that produced scanners, in the Atlanta area. Subsequently pursued self-employment. After about five years of that, went to phone company.

In my youth before the previous work history, I was school trained by the U.S. Army in Avionics (1966). Used that training and more, in Vietnam, from May 1967 to Feb. 1969 on UH-1 helicopters, as well as door-gunner (189th Assault Helicopter Company). Came back stateside and thereafter went to work for for Wang; see above.

I used the G.I. bill and got three degrees in business, including MBA. I'm also a college level certified paralegal.
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Old 04-01-2020, 10:04 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by longislander View Post
At least make it intelligible.



Does that mean ... telephone or cable or electric; presumably cables (3)?

Or, is it telephone cable and electric? You said third party. I'm going to presume cable companies like Spectrum. Spectrum plus telephone plus electric make three types of cable; not all fiber.

There are three types of telephone cable at the poles on the street. The big bulky outside plant cable (e.g. 1800 pair, 2200 pair etc), telephone company fiber wire strapped to the outside plant, and then the "cable" that goes to the house from the street pole.

That makes four types of cable, from three businesses.

The three cables on the pole near my house have electric at top, Spectrum in the middle, and telephone (not outside plant) at the bottom on the two poles. The street poles always have the "outside plant" at the bottom and electric at the top, and Spectrum fiber and telephone fiber in the middle.

You said this:



I'm going to presume, now, you didn't mean higher than electric.

Co-ownership of the poles may not be accurate, although there are legal issues that do come into play.



I've already stated the electric, phone, and the non-internet part of cable companies, are regulated. Following the regulations should be a no-brainer.



No, I was not a lineman. I did interface with linemen almost daily, however.

I was hired by the phone company at age fifty. I considered myself semi-retired. My background and work experience, was in what was considered high-tech years ago. 18 years at Wang Laboratories , a computer company; then went to a small phone company parts manufacturer and became plant manager; when Plantronics sold the company, went to and managed a small manufacturing company that produced scanners, in the Atlanta area. Subsequently pursued self-employment. After about five years of that, went to phone company.

In my youth before the previous work history, I was school trained by the U.S. Army in Avionics (1966). Used that training and more, in Vietnam, from May 1967 to Feb. 1969 on UH-1 helicopters, as well as door-gunner (189th Assault Helicopter Company). Came back stateside and thereafter went to work for for Wang; see above.

I used the G.I. bill and got three degrees in business, including MBA. I'm also a college level certified paralegal.
So you were management at the phone company for a brief period in your career, ok this certainly answers many of my questions...

Well as a current industry professional I can say for certain the issue at hand is money here. I deal first hand with upgrades on our (the electric companies) end at least every 2 months, It's time consuming and expensive and we are generally only dealing with very small areas IE a few city blocks.

For anyone that did or does care about the politics at hand here I mostly covered them in my first two posts but I'd be happy to answer any questions outside of the noise of this thread.
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Old 04-01-2020, 11:52 PM   #28
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I was at NYNEX, Bell Atlantic, Verizon, Fairpoint, for 17 Years.
I retired in 2013 and turn 73 this week. Still full of Pee and Vinegar.

Quote:
Well as a current industry professional I can say for certain the issue at hand is money here. I deal first hand with upgrades on our (the electric companies) end at least every 2 months, It's time consuming and expensive and we are generally only dealing with very small areas IE a few city blocks.
That is not the issue.

This thread is about a petition
Quote:
to provide“facilitating access to broadband Internet for members" to NHEC’s charter.
Quote:
NHEC doesn’t need to finance, own or operate a fiber network to facilitate others to develop systems. It just needs to make attaching fiber to NHEC poles straightforward, predictable and affordable.
How many votes does it take to execute the petition ... 2/3rds of what!

What does the petition do ... change a few words in the charter. Does anyone think that will require the membership to fund putting fiber on poles?

Quote:
This amendment would explicitly state, in the foundational documents of the organization, that NHEC sees facilitating the development of broadband as part of its core mission. Since it is member owned, NHEC has an opportunity and obligation to go beyond the base regulatory requirements imposed by the Public Utility Commission. The Coop should proactively encourage broadband developers to service its members.
The "100 coops" suggests to try to get
Quote:
an expanded combination of federal grant and loan funding through USDA programs is essential.
Quote:
For anyone that did or does care about the politics at hand here I mostly covered them in my first two posts but I'd be happy to answer any questions outside of the noise of this thread.

I, personally, don't care about the politics. Facts in this thread are almost non-existent. Mostly bloviating.

The question I have is, does anyone think this petition will provide actual expanded broadband to unserved and/or underserved areas.

Next question: how many lawsuits will be filed, if NHEC directors execute putting fiber on poles without a "plan".

Also

Quote:
as a current industry professional
What company do you work for? NHEC, Eversource? You sound like more Eversource.

This petition is targeted to NHEC members.
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Old 04-02-2020, 05:00 AM   #29
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Default NHEC phone call?

Has anyone else received a call from the Co-op asking about paying to lock in rates?

My wife spoke to someone, evidently from NHEC, who proposed we consider making a sort of down payment, to lock in our usage rate, based on a future increase soon to be enacted.

Does this make any sense- or was it a scam???
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Old 04-02-2020, 07:42 AM   #30
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Quote:
Quote:
"Beware of Utility Scams!

Scammers are after your money and personal information! One of their favorite tricks is to pose as employees of NHEC or other utilities.

Beware when someone calls or visits with offers to save you money, or threatening to disconnect your electric service."

https://www.nhec.com/metering-scams/
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Old 04-02-2020, 07:00 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longislander View Post

Still full of Pee and Vinegar.

Mostly bloviating.

What company do you work for? NHEC, Eversource? You sound like more Eversource.

This petition is targeted to NHEC members.
You are full of something but not those ingredients.

Bloviating? LOL hello mirror?

Hivolt answered your question rationally- who cares which utility he works for? Do you think they have different rules for line separation and the size of the communication worker's safety zone/ area. Perhaps Hivolt works for Eversource and lives in Moultonborough?
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Old 04-02-2020, 07:06 PM   #32
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Be useful ... take a nap!
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Old 04-04-2020, 08:43 PM   #33
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Question Xfinity Free During CCP-Virus

I'm all set for Wi-Fi, but would this help anyone in the short-term?


https://www.internetessentials.com/
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