Ames Farm Being Sued

[rickstr66]

Originally Posted by gravy boat

Dick,

When fisherman stop trolling where my children swim, I'll be a bit more tolerant. I don't care if anybody fishes...just stay away from swimming areas -- out of common courtesy. In the last four years we had two cases of discarded fishhooks stuck in the feet (in 3 to 5 feet of water within 20 feet of shore between where the boats are moored and the shoreline).

You're right -- the water is public. But common courtesy should be shown by all, whether you pay taxes to live there or you pay a launch fee to have access.

But don't complain to me if you and your buddies encounter a water balloon at 6:30 am after waking me up or if you're too close to where we are swimming. ;-)

GB

Let me start out by saying you are correct. Common courtesy is needed, when people are actually swimming. Home owners property ends at the waterline. If no one is on their dock, rafts, beach then fisherman have EVERY right to fish anywhere they want except for inside marked swim areas that are PERMITTED. Just because you put a line across the front of your property 50 yards from shore does not make it a legal swim area. Your swim area is a privlede, just like my ability to fish. Yours doesn't superceed mine and vise versa.
Bass, for the most part are a shallow water fish. They live on or near the shoreline. That is where fisherman have to target them. If I see a family using thier dock/beach I skip on by. If its 8am and you are in your house and I feel a fish may be in and around your beach, I'm fishing.
Think about this. What if every homeowner on a lake said "not in front of my house" ? There would be no place for anyone to fish.

[Dick]

All swim areas should have swim buoys and swim lines . . . and for good reason . . . it makes it very apparent that that area is a swim area and for boaters to stay clear. Without these buoys and swim lines there is no way for boaters to know what is a swim area and what isn't.

Under no circustances should anglers troll inside swim buoys/lines.

About the water balloon thing . . . of course you are joking

[HUH]

Originally Posted by Dick

All swim areas should have swim buoys and swim lines . . . and for good reason . . . it makes it very apparent that that area is a swim area and for boaters to stay clear. Without these buoys and swim lines there is no way for boaters to know what is a swim area and what isn't.

Under no circustances should anglers troll inside swim buoys/lines.

About the water balloon thing . . . of course you are joking

So we all need to start stringing lines and floats out front because its obvious the bassers dont care about anyones privacy at all. I have nothing against fishing either but a bunch of overgrown kids flippin lures at the boats, dock and shoreline in front of houses is ignorant to say the least.. grow up

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by Dick

About the water balloon thing . . . of course you are joking

Don't bet on it.

http://www.balloonbazooka.com/movies.html

(Defending the Dock)

[gravy boat]

Originally Posted by Dick

All swim areas should have swim buoys and swim lines . . . and for good reason . . . it makes it very apparent that that area is a swim area and for boaters to stay clear. Without these buoys and swim lines there is no way for boaters to know what is a swim area and what isn't.

Under no circustances should anglers troll inside swim buoys/lines.

About the water balloon thing . . . of course you are joking

Yes, I'm joking. I don't launch them at fisherman.
My nephews have better aim.

[xltRod]

I would think about your balloon gun if I were you. I know a few guys that carry paintball guns just for people who get pushy.

[SteveS]

I consider the Ames family to be among the most effective preservationists on the lake. They manage to protect the hillside behind the cottages from development, while still providing easy access to the lake for boaters of all kinds who are not fortunate enough to own their own piece of paradise. The cottages represent one of the few (& becoming fewer) options for a traditional week at the lake for a family, unless one is lucky enough to be able to afford a "camp" of it's own. Many local & island kids get a chance for a great summer job experience that money can't buy, learning responsibility & good work habits from a family that's been successful for years & really know what they are about.

And Ames does all this preservation work without fund raising of any kind! They actually pay taxes! Go ask the LRCT folks how easy it is to preserve a ridge line - they worked their butts off for years to raise the money to preserve the "Castle in the Clouds" land, and now they work their butts off to keep it running.

I don't mean to suggest that the Ames family's intention is or is not to be preservationists, nor do I care. But I do care that when I look at the ridge line I don't see another Samoset. When a fisherman pulls a bass out from under my dock I feel a little guilty "owning" my bit of lakefront, knowing that no matter where he comes from, as long as his boat floats he has access to the lake I'm lucky enough to spend 100 days a year on.

Thanks for reading my rant!
Steve

[rickstr66]

Originally Posted by HUH

So we all need to start stringing lines and floats out front because its obvious the bassers dont care about anyones privacy at all. I have nothing against fishing either but a bunch of overgrown kids flippin lures at the boats, dock and shoreline in front of houses is ignorant to say the least.. grow up

Don't you need a permit to put in a swimline and markers? What privacy are we invading? How dare we pass by your property I guess? What's ignorant is assuming YOU OWN the water infront of your house. Your property ends at the waterline. Period. You have no rights to anything else. If anything a fisherman extends you a curtiousy by not fishing public waters adjacient to your property. Read your deed.
It has nothing to do with "growing up". It has to do with what the LAW is. You don't want to see fisherman pass by your property? Sell and buy in the mountians.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by HUH

So we all need to start stringing lines and floats out front because its obvious the bassers dont care about anyones privacy at all. I have nothing against fishing either but a bunch of overgrown kids flippin lures at the boats, dock and shoreline in front of houses is ignorant to say the least.. grow up

Privacy? The lake is owned by all of us, up to the high water mark.

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by chipj29

Privacy? The lake is owned by all of us, up to the high water mark.

Well... to an extent anyway! LOL!

Waterfront Property owners do have certain Littoral Rights granted to them that the general public does not. For example they can install docks, rafts, moorings and a swim line.

I think a little courtesy goes a long way. Fisherman do have the RIGHT to fish in front of houses etc... but that doesnt mean they have to be rude about it... If someone is out sitting on thier deck @ 6am with a cup of coffee... quietly move on to the next house.

if your a waterfront property owner, and you dont want guys fishing in front of your place, petiton the DES or whoever is required and put up a swim line. No need to get angry or twisted about it. You bought property next to a public park...

I think most everyone on the lake is nice, extremely courteous and helpful. Its always the one or two that arent that get everyone in an uproar!

Woodsy

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Well... to an extent anyway! LOL!

Waterfront Property owners do have certain Littoral Rights granted to them that the general public does not. For example they can install docks, rafts, moorings and a swim line.

I think a little courtesy goes a long way. Fisherman do have the RIGHT to fish in front of houses etc... but that doesnt mean they have to be rude about it... If someone is out sitting on thier deck @ 6am with a cup of coffee... quietly move on to the next house.

if your a waterfront property owner, and you dont want guys fishing in front of your place, petiton the DES or whoever is required and put up a swim line. No need to get angry or twisted about it. You bought property next to a public park...

I think most everyone on the lake is nice, extremely courteous and helpful. Its always the one or two that arent that get everyone in an uproar!

Woodsy

Woodsy, I agree with you 100%. There are rights and laws...and there is common sense and courtesy.
I was just saying that the privacy thing is not a law or a right in this case.

[Lakepilot]

We have a cottage on the lake and the fishing must be great in our area because there are lots of fishing boats just off our dock and in the cove. I'm glad they get to enjoy fishing right off our dock - and sometimes beside it. I'm glad we get to enjoy the lake also. I have never felt like our privacy was invaded or that they were doing something wrong.

The only time I got antsy was when we watched a mother bass have little ones right beside our dock. She patrolled her spot like there's no tomorrow. A fisherman came by one day and threw his hook in and we hoped mom kept her mouth shut. Unfortunately she didn't. She was caught and thrown back in. She nwas caught 2 other times we know of and thrown back in. Apparently bass don't learn to keep their mouth's shut.

[SteveS]

Originally Posted by SteveS

I consider the Ames family to be among the most effective preservationists on the lake. They manage to protect the hillside behind the cottages from development, while still providing easy access to the lake for boaters of all kinds who are not fortunate enough to own their own piece of paradise. The cottages represent one of the few (& becoming fewer) options for a traditional week at the lake for a family, unless one is lucky enough to be able to afford a "camp" of it's own. Many local & island kids get a chance for a great summer job experience that money can't buy, learning responsibility & good work habits from a family that's been successful for years & really know what they are about.

And Ames does all this preservation work without fund raising of any kind! They actually pay taxes! Go ask the LRCT folks how easy it is to preserve a ridge line - they worked their butts off for years to raise the money to preserve the "Castle in the Clouds" land, and now they work their butts off to keep it running.

I don't mean to suggest that the Ames family's intention is or is not to be preservationists, nor do I care. But I do care that when I look at the ridge line I don't see another Samoset. When a fisherman pulls a bass out from under my dock I feel a little less guilty "owning" my bit of lakefront, knowing that no matter where he comes from, as long as his boat floats he has access to the lake I'm lucky enough to spend 100 days a year on.

Thanks for reading my rant!
Steve

Oops, I meant "a little less guilty". Perhaps I should read the post first?

[mcdude]

Not All Neighbors Are Abutters

In the never-ending saga surrounding the Ames Farm Inn, the print media consistently lumps together neighbors and abutters as those opposed
to the activities that were granted by the Gilford Planning Board at their
meeting on July 7 and subsequently overturned by the Zoning Board of Adjustment on Oct. 6. This representation by the media, albeit innocent,
gives the impression that those who own property contiguous to the Ames property, abutters, take issue with the use of the resort. Nothing could be further from the truth. Those in opposition to the activities at Ames Farm are not abutters but rather people who own property in the neighboring
area. As a point of fact, the abutters who I have spoken with have no issue with the uses set forth by the Planning Board. Simply put, all abutters are neighbors, but not all neighbors are abutters. The distinction is clear and of great importance in that abutters and non-abutters are diametrically opposed in their thoughts relative to the operation of the Ames Farm, as approved by the Planning Board.

David Pearse
Gilford

[HUH]

Originally Posted by rickstr66

Don't you need a permit to put in a swimline and markers? What privacy are we invading? How dare we pass by your property I guess? What's ignorant is assuming YOU OWN the water infront of your house. Your property ends at the waterline. Period. You have no rights to anything else. If anything a fisherman extends you a curtiousy by not fishing public waters adjacient to your property. Read your deed.
It has nothing to do with "growing up". It has to do with what the LAW is. You don't want to see fisherman pass by your property? Sell and buy in the mountians.

You keep reitorating that waterfront ownership ends at the high water mark.. Ive never said anything to the contrary.
Heres what im not ok with!
Taking all females off their beds every spring. Catch kill and release! Ive been to several weigh ins where MOST of the Largest bass were belly up!
Lures jigs and line all over the boat lines, canvas, dock and logs in the water.
Ive fished this lake since I was a kid in the 60's.. Bass fishing isnt what it used to be, wonder why
If you ask me a bunch of overgrown kids have turned a relaxing hobby into an extreme sport to pump there egos.
If you want to fish right in front of my house thats fine , but dont expect to be welcomed with open arms. And keep your lures off private property !

[rickstr66]

Originally Posted by HUH

You keep reitorating that waterfront ownership ends at the high water mark.. Ive never said anything to the contrary.
Heres what im not ok with!
Taking all females off their beds every spring. Catch kill and release! Ive been to several weigh ins where MOST of the Largest bass were belly up!
Lures jigs and line all over the boat lines, canvas, dock and logs in the water.
Ive fished this lake since I was a kid in the 60's.. Bass fishing isnt what it used to be, wonder why
If you ask me a bunch of overgrown kids have turned a relaxing hobby into an extreme sport to pump there egos.
If you want to fish right in front of my house thats fine , but dont expect to be welcomed with open arms. And keep your lures off private property !

1.Let me try and educate you on a couple things. Those bass you see sitting on beds are the MALES. The females lay their eggs quickly and leave. The male is left to guard the nest. Fishing for bass on nests is LEGAL and is done during a period of time when it is strictly catch and immediate release. No putting any fish in a livewell.

2. Bass caught in tournaments have about a 97% survival rate on average. Do some die? Yes, but in reality we are allowed to catch, kill and keep 5 bass per person per day. So at 97% that would mean 3 out of 100 bass will die compared to 100 out of 100 if we did what we are legally allowed to do. In the tournaments I have been in ( over 500 probably) someone is always wiling to take home the fish that don't make it and feed their family with them. The fact that we practice catch and release should tell you all you need to know about how much bass fishermen care about the fisheries they fish.

3. Bass fisherman are damed if they do and damed if they don't. When we do make an errant cast, do we go and attempt to retrieve the lure on what you clearly have indicated is PRIVATE PROPERTY? If we do try this we get grief. If we cut the line and leave the lure we get grief. What are we to do?
I have an idea, have all the land owners take out all docks, swim lines and boats. Then we will have nothing to snag our lures on

4. You fish your way , I'll fish mine. Last I checked we lived in a country that allows that.

5. I'll be sure to let you know I think you are #1 when you give me grief for doing what I am legally allowed to do.

[M/V_Bear_II]

Originally Posted by rickstr66

4. You fish your way , I'll fish mine.

But you're only allowed to do that on Webster Lake!

[mcdude]

As a result of zoning board decision, it was concluded that Ames Farm was not legally grandfathered as a public boat launch and will not be an option for boats to use this summer.

Source... The LACONIA CITIZEN

[fatlazyless]

Cannot say with any certainty but the closing of the Ames' Farm Inn, twenty dollar, launch ramps is probably one good reason why the numbers of boats out on the water appears to be diminished. Seems like maybe Ames had a good following of people dedicated to fishing including NH Fish & Game Dept and people really liked it and enjoyed the different Ames' amenities such as open space, big green grassy field, nearby parking for car & trailer, cabins, inn, pancake breakfasts and the whole Ames' 'Olde Hampshire' experience........boo-hoo.....now I'm missing Ames' and I never even used it or went in there?

[Airwaves]

Dunn also received phone calls asking about the use of Ames Farm this summer as a public boat launch. As a result of zoning board decision, it was concluded that Ames Farm was not legally grandfathered as a public boat launch and will not be an option for boats to use this summer.

"All changes to regulations are designed to reduce the pressure on this place [Glendale Docks]," said Dunn. "We're just hoping for warm, sunny days now."

I am confused as to how the loss of Ames Farm as a public boat launch will reduce pressure on Glendale????

[Rose]

Originally Posted by Airwaves

I am confused as to how the loss of Ames Farm as a public boat launch will reduce pressure on Glendale????

I think it's the fault of the writer. If you put the last paragraph, which has nothing to do with the Farm, before the Ames Farm paragraph, it makes more sense (which is what I've done below).

"The new regulations are designed so residents and taxpayers will not have to compete with the guests," said Dunn. "Some are happy, while others are not, since they might see it being an inconvenience for their guests."

"All changes to regulations are designed to reduce the pressure on this place [Glendale Docks]," said Dunn. "We're just hoping for warm, sunny days now.

Dunn also received phone calls asking about the use of Ames Farm this summer as a public boat launch. As a result of zoning board decision, it was concluded that Ames Farm was not legally grandfathered as a public boat launch and will not be an option for boats to use this summer.

[Mr. V]

I guess the question to be asked is: Without income from boat launching fees, does Ames Farm still have a viable business model?

And if not: what next?

[Mee-n-Mac]

So now one has to wonder what will happen. I can see the ads now ... "Beautiful waterfront condo's, choose from 100 units, nice sandy beach and private access for boats."

[Airwaves]

Then poor writing and editing aside, it still bodes the question with a reduction in accessability at Glendale and the loss of Ames Farm, who wins?

[trfour]

Lets take the problem at hand out the equation. Political roads leave us at odds. Lets solve this problem. It is so easy to forget that there is a world out here, many people involved, that would like our guidance as well, a reminder again of the Global influence of Our times.
Lake Winnipesaukee Rocks, Please let us keep ahead of our times!!
Terry

[EZ-Pass]

Originally Posted by Mee-n-Mac

So now one has to wonder what will happen. I can see the ads now ... "Beautiful waterfront condo's, choose from 100 units, nice sandy beach and private access for boats."

Boy wouldn't the town LOVE that. I bet there wouldn't be any difficulties getting permits for that as the town will want the income from all the taxes.

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by Airwaves

Then poor writing and editing aside, it still bodes the question with a reduction in accessability at Glendale and the loss of Ames Farm, who wins?

Like everything else, it takes time, but generally speaking there are no winners when things like this are decided. You get a group that doesn't like bass boats and tournaments, then you lose the access. So if limited access was their goal, they win.

It used to be that many regulations were directly targeted at keeping the lake clean and safe. Most of the local and state attention the last decade has been targeted at making Winnipesaukee a more limited resource. None of this and none of that. I'm not sure who got the cat's ear that led to the "victory" over Ames launch status, but it would be interesting to see if they do anything on the lake at all.

There's a lot of very selfish people out there.

[Woodsy]

The Nuke....

I would love to see the Ames family sell out to some big name developer for millions, and have him put in 100-200 condos on both sides of the street... beach access & boat launch! and with that kind of waterfront you could probably get a few permanent docks in too!

Unintended consequences! Bass boat tournaments or a few hundred people 24-7 with jetski's & boats? You win a battle over bass boats but you lose the war! Your property value drops and you have to deal with LOTS of People, noise & traffic!

Retards!

Woodsy

[gtagrip]

Very well said Woodsy! I would love to see the samething happen! With regards to "Retards!" Couldn't have said it better my self!

Thanks,
GTAGRIP(NH vanity plate)

[SIKSUKR]

The way the statement was worded by Dunn was that the ramp was not available to the public this summer because they found that the public ramp was not grandfathered.That does not mean that Ames can't apply for permission to use it legally in the future.We'll see.

[Kamper]

Idly curious...

Does anyone know if this affects people renting the cabins too? Or is it just drive up users?

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

The Nuke....

I would love to see the Ames family sell out to some big name developer for millions, and have him put in 100-200 condos on both sides of the street... beach access & boat launch! and with that kind of waterfront you could probably get a few permanent docks in too!

Unintended consequences! Bass boat tournaments or a few hundred people 24-7 with jetski's & boats? You win a battle over bass boats but you lose the war! Your property value drops and you have to deal with LOTS of People, noise & traffic!

Retards!

Woodsy

Originally Posted by gtagrip

Very well said Woodsy! I would love to see the samething happen! With regards to "Retards!" Couldn't have said it better my self!

Thanks,
GTAGRIP(NH vanity plate)

While part of me agrees and would LOVE to see 100+ condos (complete with docks, boats and associated noise!) go in at the Ames Farm property as revenge to the neighbor that started all this, I'd really rather see it remain the way it is and get the usage of the public launch ramps restored. In my opinion, it was the best public launch facility, hands down. If that access goes away permanently, I'll be very disappointed.

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

The way the statement was worded by Dunn was that the ramp was not available to the public this summer because they found that the public ramp was not grandfathered. That does not mean that Ames can't apply for permission to use it legally in the future. We'll see.

This is what I'm hoping for! Get the other permit problems taken care of, apply for a permit (or whatever) to return the launch ramps to public use and everyone will be happy! Well, maybe not the nasty neighbor that started this mess but I'LL BE HAPPY (and anyone else that used to use the Ames Farm ramps on a regular basis)!

Come to think of it, the nasty neighbor's probably hoping for ee a developer come in after all; then he can sell his piece of property to said developer for a hefty sum!!

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Originally Posted by Kamper

Idly curious...

Does anyone know if this affects people renting the cabins too? Or is it just drive up users?

As far as I've heard, it's just the out-of-towners driving up to launch that are affected; renters at Ames Farm can still use the ramps while they are renting there.

[wifi]

Originally Posted by Wolfeboro_Baja

As far as I've heard, it's just the out-of-towners driving up to launch that are affected; renters at Ames Farm can still use the ramps while they are renting there.

Why not dedicate a cabin or two, and have a boat launch special. $20 for a 15 minute stay, just long enough to launch or load your boat? You would just have to formally rent the room (& pay the 9%)

[ApS]

Originally Posted by wifi

Why not dedicate a cabin for two, during daylight hours, and have a boat launch special. $20 for a 15 minute stay, just long enough to launch or load your boat? You would just have to formally rent the room (& pay the 9%)

FLL is already there.

He's the one on the nearest porch—in the rocking chair—behind the metal cash box!

[EllyPoinster]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

FLL is already there.

He's the one on the nearest porch—in the rocking chair—behind the metal cash box!

Singing "(boat) trailers for sale or rent. Rooms to let fifty cents . . ."

[TiltonBB]

There is usually a way around most rules.

Why not sell memberships to your "exclusive" boat launch club for, say, $20.00?

That way the ramp is not open to the public it is a private facility, limited to members only.

The ski clubs in North Conway have been doing a similar thing for years. They have large open bar parties for all of the members of local ski clubs and the state told them that they couldn't charge a cover because they were then in the nightclub business and selling alcohol without a permit. Each club started selling "invitations" to a private party and got around the regulations. That was true in the 70's and 80's, I'm not sure it is true now.

Then again, it is nicer here with fewer boats!

[HUH]

Originally Posted by rickstr66

1.Let me try and educate you on a couple things. Those bass you see sitting on beds are the MALES. The females lay their eggs quickly and leave. The male is left to guard the nest. Fishing for bass on nests is LEGAL and is done during a period of time when it is strictly catch and immediate release. No putting any fish in a livewell.

2. Bass caught in tournaments have about a 97% survival rate on average. Do some die? Yes, but in reality we are allowed to catch, kill and keep 5 bass per person per day. So at 97% that would mean 3 out of 100 bass will die compared to 100 out of 100 if we did what we are legally allowed to do. In the tournaments I have been in ( over 500 probably) someone is always wiling to take home the fish that don't make it and feed their family with them. The fact that we practice catch and release should tell you all you need to know about how much bass fishermen care about the fisheries they fish.

3. Bass fisherman are damed if they do and damed if they don't. When we do make an errant cast, do we go and attempt to retrieve the lure on what you clearly have indicated is PRIVATE PROPERTY? If we do try this we get grief. If we cut the line and leave the lure we get grief. What are we to do?
I have an idea, have all the land owners take out all docks, swim lines and boats. Then we will have nothing to snag our lures on

4. You fish your way , I'll fish mine. Last I checked we lived in a country that allows that.

5. I'll be sure to let you know I think you are #1 when you give me grief for doing what I am legally allowed to do.

I used to bass fish until I realized what a friuitless pursuit of enjoyment it was.. Foul hook a fish in the eyeball then put it back in the lake and hope it survives with one eye or a broken lip etc.. Try snokeling with them.. Stir up the bottom a little and they will follow you around, you get to see them up close in their natural environment without injuring or killing them for an ego boost..We realy enjoy the few bass that nest and live in front of our place please move on #1

[lawn psycho]

It's been about 5 years since I posted on here and I have created a new "handle". Funny that it took about 5 minutes of reading to catch up with all the usual rants

After reading this thread, what stands out to me is how things are done in NC where major watersheds and bodies of waters have NO development of any kind. Search Falls Lake and Jordan Lake in NC. Perhaps NH should just claim emminent domain and in one swift move, all the belly aching will end. I am actually serious when I say that I don't think anyone should be allowed to own shoreline property on Winni. Disclosure: I have 2 friends who own lake property and have had this discussion.

The post above about invading someone's privacy by boating on the lake is simply ridiculus. I think a couple hundred boats anchored close to the abutters shoreline for a few weekends would drive him insane

If I were the Ames family I would be making sure his complaing abutters have dotted every "I" regarding their land use, septic locations, setbacks, tree clearing (you can get old and new aerial sureys for comparisons), etc.

Ames is 100% appropriate for the area. I am empathetic about the early morning noise if there are large number of boats leaving at the same time. I would think they could do staggered starts or later starts as a compromise. However, my reading of the articles leads me to believe that the Town grand poo-bahs had to claim religion when someone brought a violation to their attention. One would think Ames would have tried in parallel to be conforming since this first started as a back-up to his claim but there's no way to know what transpired. I don't fish but have launched my bowride there a few times before I started renting a slip and nothing I have ever seen would indicate they are any kind of nuisance.

As far as attorneys, for every winning side there is a losing side. Essentially means the law "profession" is capped at a 50% success rate

[kara1]

Originally Posted by Formula260SS

That's not good news, Ames is one of the few places that offers a good access point to the lake for the general public. I have been going to Ames for many years and I have not seen any major changes, some minor but for the town to sue seems strange.

One would think the town would work with an establishment like Ames to keep the access available to the public, places like that are pretty much non existant and would be a great loss to loose any of what they offer. Hopefully they can straighten it all out.

One would think the town would work with an establishment like Ames to keep the access available to the public

[mcdude]

from the Citizen

End of boat launch at Ames Farm hits nerve
Gilford:

Tuesday, July 21, 2009
GILFORD — The town says it might take action by voters to resolve the issue of whether members of the general public can go to Ames Farm to launch their boats.

A release from the town said it has received "an overwhelming number of phone calls about the boat launching situation at Ames Farm.'

Prompted by the inquiries, Town Administrator Scott Dunn wrote, "It is hoped that Ames Farm will take the initiative to work with various town officials to resolve this problem in time for the 2010 boating season, but ultimately a solution will probably depend upon a town meeting vote."

Launching of boats into Lake Winnipesaukee by the general public has been prohibited since the Zoning Board of Adjustment ruled that such an operation was not a permitted use at Ames Farm because it is situated in the single-family residential zone. The Planning Board voted to allow boat launching as a grandfathered use, but the ZBA found the Planning Board had exceeded its authority in making such a finding.

As for alternative sites, the town suggested interested persons contact other establishments in the town, "such as Fay's Boat Yard or Silver Sands Marina, but additional information may also be found on the Internet."

Too bad most of the folks using the launch are not able to vote in Gilford

[Chowdaguy]

Every time I see something like this I think of an old Chinese proverb:

In a town with one lawyer, the lawyer goes broke.

In a town with two lawyers, both prosper.

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Originally Posted by mcdude as taken from the Laconia Citizen

Launching of boats into Lake Winnipesaukee by the general public has been prohibited since the Zoning Board of Adjustment ruled that such an operation was not a permitted use at Ames Farm because it is situated in the single-family residential zone. The Planning Board voted to allow boat launching as a grandfathered use, but the ZBA found the Planning Board had exceeded its authority in making such a finding.

Is it just me or does this sound like we're watching a P-ssing match?

What bothers me the most is Ames Farm will probably end up being closed to the public permanently and there goes the BEST public access to the big lake!! I'll bet those shorefront and island property owners that think their lake is already too crowded are getting excited at that possibility!! I've got news for them; it's not YOUR lake, I'm a NH native resident, I have rights too!!

I wonder if they could (or would even consider) selling the rights to the launch ramps to the state (like selling development rights to farm land to prevent development)? Could be interesting...............

[fatlazyless]

Selling development rights to the State of NH would probably only get done if the Ames family were willing to sell for just one dollar.

In about 1930, the Wellington family of New York City sold their 100's acres Wellington State Park property on Newfound Lake, which has a 1600' long natural beach, to the state for one dollar.

And a similar deal occured when the state aquired Ellecoya State Beach from the Ellecoya. In exchange for 48 LL Bean wool blankets, two cases of Jenkins scotch whisky and ten scratch tickets, the state came back with the deed to beautifull Ellecoya State Beach.

Maybe the Lakes Region Conservation Trust can raise 20-million from bass boaters and then close off Ames Farm to all except for natural wood dugout canoes, paddled by granola eat'n paddlers, and carved from 100% organically grown trees on Timber Island?

[Kamper]

Originally Posted by Wolfeboro_Baja

Is it just me or does this sound like we're watching a P-ssing match?

What bothers me the most is Ames Farm will probably end up being closed to the public permanently and there goes the BEST public access to the big lake!! ...

If Ames wants to really get the town Psst! off, they should have a "free" ramp day. I doubt the law prohibits openning private property as a good-will gesture to your fellow citizens!

[Mr. Moyer]

This reminds me of the people who moved into new condos and homes in East Boston and Winthrop a few years back and actually had a petition to close down one of the runways at Logan. Someone needs to tell these folks that Ames Farm was letting people drop in long before many of these homeowners owned there. I agree with the earlier post, that says they will get what they deserve with about 2000 condos as neighbors with about 2000 full time boaters. oh and as the construction occurs on the condos over 5 years there will be many an early morning where the hammers and drills are running. But I'm sure they will sue over that as well.
As for the poster who mentioned that all of those folks aren't gilford taxpayers, they are correct, but they are all dropping money into gilford and the lakes region. I am sick and tired of we lakes region residents pushing away revenue when we need it most. As we keep out all of those folks who spend, our costs stay the same or increase as do our tax bills.
It is childish and all will lose in this battle except the attornies, as usual
Have fun!

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by Mr. Moyer

Someone needs to tell these folks that Ames Farm was letting people drop in long before many of these homeowners owned there.

Sorry, but I respectfully got to say that I truly believe that YOU ARE WRONG on this.

This isn't a "coming to the nuisance" case.

The family who beefed Ames has been there for a l-o-n-g time.

And what the heck, if Ames was running a legal and legit operation there'd be no problem.

They aren't, there is, and "That's that."

[Rose]

Originally Posted by Mr. Moyer

It is childish and all will lose in this battle except the attornies, as usual.

Well, the last complainant is a lawyer, so there you go.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by kara1

One would think the town would work with an establishment like Ames to keep the access available to the public

Why would the town care? Gilford is not making any money from them other than property taxes. Taxes on the business ends up at the state or Fed level. Island owners are going to get there one way or the other, with or without Ames Farm.

I own a business in Dover. Dover sees nothing from me.

[Mr. Moyer]

Codeman,

This is exactly why the town of Gilford should care. The increased boaters, Bass fissherman etc, will spend their money in town at Patrick's, having breakfast, buying fishing gear eating at waldo peppers just as an example. As for the comment about islanders getting their anyway. I can't imagine that many islanders use a drop in spot you need to pay each time. At least I don't know of any. Most islanders either keep their boat on a slip/mooring or have a designated drop-in spot with their island. regardless I get your point on the taxes going to the local area.
In any case, Increased boaters equals increased people coming to the area and spending their discresionary income.

[jrc]

Originally Posted by codeman671

...

I own a business in Dover. Dover sees nothing from me.

Your business pay rent and your landlord pays property tax in Dover, right? How much property tax does an empty run down building pay versus one with a thriving business.

[chriscraft208]

I tried to launch at ames farm but the ramps are closed for the duration. Does anyone know of good alternative boat ramps in the area I tried one close by and it took over an hour to get going too long for my taste any help would be appreciated. Thanks

[BroadHopper]

Unfortunately is on lake Winnisquam!

We did it to ourselves with all the rules and regulations of surounding towns and state legislature. Soon the lake will no longer be boater friendly.

[fatlazyless]

In the past ten years, the state has built launch faciities on Newfound, Squam & Winnisquam. The facilities include parking for trailers attached to vehicle, double ramps, dock, and toilets. Lake Sunapee is on deck to be next.

Why not on Winnipesaukee? Because of all the town and marina ramps including Ames Farm Inn. Could be that Ames has been the most popular unofficial go-to spot which tipped the scale of decision against creating a Winnipesaukee state launch.

If the State of NH builds a new state launch on Lake Winnipesaukee, it would be nice to see it built in Laconia because Laconia is the only lake town without a town ramp. There's commercial property on Paugus Bay that has nothing to do with 'waterfront' but could be used as a boat launch. Thinking of the vacant Fitzgerald car building, across from McDonald's. Considering the size of the Winnisquam launch,which is very small, the Fitzgerald lot could be big enough for a state launch. A handy spot to daytrip the 32' Baja from your driveway to the lake!

[BroadHopper]

That the town of Laconia actually appropriated time and money to build a public ramp on Paugus Bay years ago. Of course politics intervene and the city lost out on a great opportunity.

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

So since Ames Farm Inn has settled with NH DES (link to Skip's thread; thank you Skip!), has anyone heard anything else regarding the status of Ames Farm and whether or not the ramps will be open to the public next year? As a trailer boater, I hate not knowing what's going on!!

[upthesaukee]

I drove by Ames Farm yesterday, and noticed a new (to me) fence up, located on the right side of the road as you drive down to the boat ramp from the main building. It is a rail fence and appears to be there to keep people from parking there, an indication that they may not be using that big field for anything soon.

Sorry.

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Thanks for the update, upthesaukee.

I drive by Ames Farm whenever we go to West Alton Marina to launch and if it's an unfinished fence you saw, it sounds like the same fence that was there the past couple of years. I'm not sure why it went up but it was there before the whole fiasco began this year!

[Mr. V]

OK, so if Ames Farm was allowing boats to be launched for years, at say ten bucks a pop, and they never had permission / legal authority to do that: shouldn't the fees they collected over the years be recovered and redistributed somehow?

They seem to have profited by wrong-doing.

Sort of like putting a private toll booth up on rte. 11, except it's located on lakefront.

That just doesn't seem right.

What does the law say?

[NoRegrets]

I like to think that the land is private and they can do what they want. I am not 100% sure of the legal technicalities in this case but this was a "business" as a farm and resort. The rub is they can not produce documentation stating that they were granted a license to specifically conduct business as a marina. Back in the good old days (before 35 million lawyers) the legal details were not as finite. The intent of the law was used and not so much the technicality of the law. (What is the meaning of "IS")
Private land used as a business can charge a reasonable rate for parking and use. Many are now locked out or have to go to other crowded locations.

[Woodsy]

Gotta love lawyers.....

While there may be some dispute over the permitting legalities surrounding Ames Farm, the town of Gilford was well aware of the boat activities that were occuring there for years and years. This property was valued and taxed accordingly...

I would hope the citizens of Gilford will vote to amend the zoning ordinances to allow Ames Farm to resume the boat launch and parking. To those neighbors who decided to pursue this issue.... be careful what you wish for! If it was my business & property I would sell the properties to a developer for huge $$$ and just laugh my a$$ off as they built nice big cluster of condos....

Woodsy

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

To those neighbors who decided to pursue this issue.... be careful what you wish for! If it was my business & property I would sell the properties to a developer for huge $$$ and just laugh my a$$ off as they built nice big cluster of condos....

Woodsy

If they sold the land condos could be the end result, but the current real estate market may not be favorable for this sort of development.

I would bet equal money that were the Ames family to sell today, some rich guy, like Bahre, would buy all the land and build a lakeside chateau.

Or a developer would sell lots for Mcmansions.

The rich will always be rich.

And I am sure the complainants realized that could happen when they opened this can of worms; they would most likely prefer condos over the noise and traffic that happened on busy weekends at and near Ames.

[Rose]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

OK, so if Ames Farm was allowing boats to be launched for years, at say ten bucks a pop, and they never had permission / legal authority to do that: shouldn't the fees they collected over the years be recovered and redistributed somehow?

They seem to have profited by wrong-doing.

Sort of like putting a private toll booth up on rte. 11, except it's located on lakefront.

That just doesn't seem right.

What does the law say?

One of the complainants used information he gathered when hired as a surveyor by the Farm back in the 80's to give a presentation to the town of Gilford against the Farm last year.

That just doesn't seem right.

Perhaps the Farm should be reimbursed.

[Rose]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

If they sold the land condos could be the end result, but the current real estate market may not be favorable for this sort of development.

I would bet equal money that were the Ames family to sell today, some rich guy, like Bahre, would buy all the land and build a lakeside chateau.

Or a developer would sell lots for Mcmansions.

The rich will always be rich.

And I am sure the complainants realized that could happen when they opened this can of worms; they would most likely prefer condos over the noise and traffic that happened on busy weekends at and near Ames.

Well I'm sure there's some complainants that might have an eye on it for development of one kind or another.

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by Rose

One of the complainants used information he gathered when hired as a surveyor by the Farm back in the 80's to give a presentation to the town of Gilford against the Farm last year.

That just doesn't seem right.

Perhaps the Farm should be reimbursed.

Information gleaned by a surveyor who was merely observing that which was plainly visible to the public eye would not be considered confidential.

But you're trying to obfuscate, which in your position as someone with a vested interest in the outcome ("That family and that place is part of my heritage") is completely understandable.

I wonder what punishment, fine, or penance, if any, should be meted out to Ames Farm for charging a fee to launch boats for years, when it was never legal for them to do so?

Where do you draw the line between sharp business practices and illegality?

Ignorantia juris non excusat.

[Rattlesnake Gal]

I've been looking through the postcards in PhotoPost and came across this one of Ames Farm.

From McDude's Gallery

Click here to go to the image in PhotoPost, where you can click on the picture for a super-size version.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

"...Where do you draw the line between sharp business practices and illegality...?

Until recent years, there was a dearth of lawyers in this region—probably because much business was sealed with a handshake. (Like the 1994 sale of the 101-acre tract that abuts my property).

Today, well, there are no lawyers starving in New Hampshire.

[Woodsy]

APS...

I totally agree with you on this one!

Woodsy

PS: Just got a tweet from Lucifer.. apparently hell has frozen over and he is a little twisted that APS & I agree...