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Old 05-31-2004, 06:54 PM   #1
madrasahs
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Question Memorial Day Weekend -- Fatality?

Saturday and Sunday were two cold and very windy days, followed by a cool, but sunny and calm Holiday Monday.

The calm didn't prevent some excitement on Monday, though.

Right before our eyes, a speeding red and white ocean-offshore hit a wake produced by an ocean-cruiser and was launched to near-vertical position -- and started to revolve in mid-air. It landed more-or-less OK, and immediately slowed. The offshores were everywhere on Saturday and Sunday too. They've multiplied like locusts.

So far, there's only the loss of my dock's battery charger, which was swamped by a wake while on the dock. (The lake's higher now than at ice-out. Maybe too late for a headway-only speed).

No fatality after all -- "possible fatality" reported on Boston radio station. Drunk arrested -- likely Pitchwood Island event previously reported.

Last edited by madrasahs; 06-01-2004 at 05:55 AM. Reason: No reports this morning to confirm original report.
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Old 06-07-2004, 05:10 PM   #2
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Default please define what an offshore boat is?

I''m curious as to what defines an offshore boat that you speak of?
Size?
Speed?
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Old 06-14-2004, 05:24 AM   #3
madrasahs
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Arrow One take on "Offshores"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belmont Resident
I''m curious as to what defines an offshore boat that you speak of?
Size?
Speed?
Offshore boats can be any size. All are overpowered for normal transportation, unsuited for protected, recreational, and residential waters, and fully suited for a wide-open ocean environment just offshore.

Offshore boats are powered by one or more truck-based engines, most often inadequately muffled. They are unsuited for protected, recreational, residential waters, but fully suited for wide-open ocean environments just offshore. On most days, just one or two can transform formerly-idyllic Lake Winnipesaukee bay and harbor environments into a noisy, smelly, Interstate.

Offshore boats are gas-guzzlers. Offshore operators do not adjust their fuel-mix for air quality. They spread the gaseous waste-products of fossil fuel -- mixed and burned at up to one gallon/minute with New Hampshire's formerly-pure air. They leave behind a large, continuous haze of ozone-producing toxins unsuited for any residential lake -- certainly unsuited for children with allergies and asthma. (Sometimes lead is added to the fuel -- adding vaporous lead to the lake's air). But acceptable in ocean environments just offshore.

Offshore boat operators cannot see over their own bows while accelerating, making them unreliable sharers of recreational and residential waters -- but acceptably suited for wide-open ocean environments offshore.

Offshore boats often operate at high speeds: At just 60 MPH, they make the 150-foot rule of protected recreational waters obsolete every two seconds. At high speeds, they require more "user lake-space", leaving lesser boats with a corresponding drop in personal space for other recreation. When they use their "wide-open-throttles", they should be in "wide-open spaces" -- like offshore in open-ocean environments.

Offshore boats have a very poor fatality record on Lake Winnipesaukee. Fatalities should be rare on protected, recreational -- and residential -- waters. Our Forum Archives are full of fatal Offshore-boat cases.

Some have collided with lesser boats, forested shores, one another, and two have had "personal performance accidents" (with- and by- themselves) on Winnipesaukee (one with injured passengers and one operator fatality). One case had an Offshore boat leave a lake airborne, and collide with a pickup truck on Interstate 77! (A Winnipesaukee waterfront home was struck by an Offshore -- with two fatalities). Three cases, in as many boating seasons, had the operator leave the scene of two fatalities and five seriously-injured boaters -- involving amputations. Another case had an Offshore strike several boats before ejecting its one passenger -- the "throttleman" and ultimately fatally injuring the "captain". We all remember the Meredith case, of course.

Offshore boats can be seen rafted in gatherings of "Mutual Admiration Clubs" -- a peculiarity of certain types of tall, but graying boys and their costly, but obsolescent, motor engineering. (Also see Harley and Corvette fanciers).

On any August weekend, there could be seven Offshores per square mile on Winnipesaukee -- given the latest estimates of their numbers on the Forum. They should never have been sold here -- and don't belong here.

(Prepared with apologies to the hundreds of thousands of sailing kindred spirits who navigate the globe daily without refueling -- the real offshore-boaters).
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Old 06-14-2004, 10:00 AM   #4
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Why did you start this thread?
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Old 06-14-2004, 10:11 AM   #5
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Well,that's it. I'm getting rid of my Donzi and my SUV.
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Old 06-14-2004, 11:27 AM   #6
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I don't have an offshore, nor do I even have an opinion, but that initial post seems to do no more than just try to stir up the pot. How about you footnote your sources for your information and let us know if you speak from personal experience. Sounds to me like the way the media reports things. Only the way "they want you to hear it", not as it may actually be.
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Old 06-14-2004, 11:35 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAMIAM
Well,that's it. I'm getting rid of my Donzi and my SUV.
Can I have them ???
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Old 06-14-2004, 11:37 AM   #8
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Let's all be grateful we have such a lofty authority looking over our lake
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Old 06-14-2004, 03:00 PM   #9
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Quote:
Offshore boats are powered by one or more truck-based engines, most often inadequately muffled. They are unsuited for protected, recreational, residential waters, but fully suited for wide-open ocean environments just offshore. On most days, just one or two can transform formerly-idyllic Lake Winnipesaukee bay and harbor environments into a noisy, smelly, Interstate.
All inboards and inboard outboards are power by "truck engines." Infact Mercruiser, Crusader, Volvo-Penta ALL use "truck engines." Most boats on the lake from family Sea Rays to offshores are all powered by truck engines.

Quote:
Offshore boats are gas-guzzlers.
Offshore boats are actually not gas-guzzlers.

If an "offshore" and a cabin cruiser equipped with the same engines were both to travel for a fixed period of time at the same speed the offshore would get better fuel economy. It's a well know fact that "truck" engines are more efficient between 3000 and 3500 rpms or so. Offshores have the luxury of cruising at 45 mph while their engines are turning 3000 rpms burning a modest amount of fuel, while also being quieter and more environmentally friendly.

Quote:
Offshore operators do not adjust their fuel-mix for air quality
Engines are not adjusted for "air quality." Engines are tuned for maximum efficiency. Many offshores engines are actually in better condition so they run more efficiently and pollute less.

Quote:
They leave behind a large, continuous haze of ozone-producing toxins unsuited for any residential lake -- certainly unsuited for children with allergies and asthma. (Sometimes lead is added to the fuel -- adding vaporous lead to the lake's air). But acceptable in ocean environments just offshore.
ALL power boats leave behind these "toxins" you speak of. Outboard motors and PWC motors are particularly bad, discharging up to 25% of their fuel unburned.

Quote:
Offshore boat operators cannot see over their own bows while accelerating, making them unreliable sharers of recreational and residential waters -- but acceptably suited for wide-open ocean environments offshore.
Many "family boats" are underpowered which causes them to take excessive amounts of time to get on plane. When offshores are drive correctly (with the trim tabs down and drives tucked), bow rise is quite insignificant.

Quote:
Offshore boats often operate at high speeds: At just 60 MPH, they make the 150-foot rule of protected recreational waters obsolete every two seconds. At high speeds, they require more "user lake-space", leaving lesser boats with a corresponding drop in personal space for other recreation. When they use their "wide-open-throttles", they should be in "wide-open spaces" -- like offshore in open-ocean environments.
Offshore boats have the ability to operate at high rates of speed. Tell me, would you buy a car and drive it around at the redline all day long? This is not an inteligent thing to do. If one would like to cruise around at a decent rate of speed, thereby allowing them to quickly get to any destination of choice it makes sense to buy an offshore.

Quote:
Offshore boats have a very poor fatality record on Lake Winnipesaukee. Fatalities should be rare on protected, recreational -- and residential -- waters. Our Forum Archives are full of fatal Offshore-boat cases.
In psychology this is called the availability heuristic. Human reasoning is quite flawed. If you search the records you will see that each season there have been a couple or three fatalities which have involved "normal" boats, while there have only been 2 major accidents involving "offshores" in recent years.

Quote:
Offshore boats can be seen rafted in gatherings of "Mutual Admiration Clubs" -- a peculiarity of certain types of tall, but graying boys and their costly, but obsolescent, motor engineering. (Also see Harley and Corvette fanciers).
"Family boats" can be see rafting in gatherings also. Is it really strange for people with a common interest to spend time together?

Quote:
On any August weekend, there could be seven Offshores per square mile on Winnipesaukee -- given the latest estimates of their numbers on the Forum. They should never have been sold here -- and don't belong here.
>>And what does belong here, what you deem acceptable? I suppose when you have children and they're crying at the yacht club they should be kicked out, or perhaps when you would like to bring your teenager to your country club and the others don't think they "belong."

Quote:
(Prepared with apologies to the hundreds of thousands of sailing kindred spirits who navigate the globe daily without refueling -- the real offshore-boaters).
It wouldn't hurt for you to be a little more open minded.

By the way...

I'm an am avid waterskier, motorcyclist, and performance boater. I'm also a certified sailor, and enjoy sailing and windsurfing. As well as kayaking, hiking, and canoeing. You can spend life bitching about things, or you can try to make the best of a situation. Try to open you mind an broaden your horizons.

Also, I wil someday be an "offshore" owner. I will buy the boat for a number of reasons:
1.) I enjoy working on engines and tuning them for optimal performance
2.) I enjoy exploring and an "offshore" affords me the ability to cover the greatest area in the least amount of time.
3.) "offshore" boats have much better rides than comparable size boats due to the nature of their hull designs

Not all "offshore" owners are horrible people and not all sailors are "angels." Enjoy
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Old 06-15-2004, 06:08 AM   #10
madrasahs
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Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinPlante
Why did you start this thread?
"Offshore boats are a dangerous hazard to Lake Winnipesaukee boaters" was the topic of my letter-to-the-editor published in a New Hampshire newspaper. Three days later in Meredith, a 36-foot offshore crushed a family boat, killing a boater.

The outrage was palpable: there must be thousands of related posts -- here's two from the Olde Forum Archives: http://www.winnipesaukee.com/oldforu...mes;read=45666

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/oldforu...mes;read=62818 (A triple Winnipesaukee fatality collision -- there's many more examples in the archives).

"Baja Bob", among others, defended offshores -- some even defended the driver of the offshore! (I really do miss "Baja Bob's" posts -- 'wish the spell-check feature hadn't been added to the Forum).

Another wrote a similar industry-standard reply last year -- like "ahopper's" here. ("Tobacco hasn't been scientifically linked to cancer" is an industry-standard reply).

It was when the thread "Backyard Chickens" appeared at my favorite site that something snapped.

(Nothing against backyard chickens).
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Old 06-15-2004, 09:29 AM   #11
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The problem is the driver, not the boat itself.
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Old 06-15-2004, 11:46 AM   #12
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Based on your misleading thread title, I was expecting to read an article about a horrific accident. What size was the boat that hit the large wake? Your boat description sounds like a small 21' Donzi--hardly an ocean going "offshore". A large "offshore" style boat could effortlessly navigate across an enormous wake without incident.

Is someone trying to stir the pot, bait someone, and flog a dead horse again? This offshore issue has been argued and debated over and over for the past several years with the same viewpoints, perspective, and comments being dragged out and recycled over and over. If the past several months of calm and serenity on the forum have bored you, maybe you should spend more time perusing the archives to stimulate your anti-offshore agenda.
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Old 06-15-2004, 01:23 PM   #13
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The subject boat (possible fatality) was a 15' Boston Whaler. But, I'm sure in this case it was the operator's and not the boat's fault.

Bet if it was one of our "offshores", there would be a lot more indignation

Last edited by Paugus Bay Resident; 06-15-2004 at 01:29 PM.
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Old 06-16-2004, 09:39 PM   #14
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Red face BORing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by throttleman
Your boat description sounds like a small 21' Donzi--hardly an ocean going "offshore".
Can't say. Its nose reached the third floor level of a McMansion across the way. (Offshores have noses at the pointy-end).

It was a heck of a wave it hit, though. Wish it could have been called a rogue wave, but every high-water June weekend, dock surfaces around here get swept by the wakes of passing "ocean-appropriate" cruisers -- indifferently loaded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by throttleman
Based on your misleading thread title...
'Wasn't for lack of trying. About noon on the 14th, my "brand-new, new" thread, moved to "Boating" from "General Discussion", and re-titled One Take on Offshores?

It got "fixed".

Quote:
Originally Posted by throttleman
I was expecting to read an article about a horrific accident.
Disappointments abound. No horrific accident occurred, just a boat sunk by drunks -- it's not the offshore season yet anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by throttleman
This offshore issue has been argued and debated over and over for the past several years with the same viewpoints, perspective, and comments...
Well, not exactly. New is the admonition that we live on an essentially residential lake, where quality of air, water, noise, wildlife, (and life itself) is important.

Also new is that a boat that consumes one gallon of gasoline-per-minute is not a gas-guzzler.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paugus Bay Resident
"Let's all be grateful we have such a lofty authority looking over our lake."
"Looking over" Winnipesaukee is a lofty responsibility. Dealers in offshore-going boats should not be that authority, IMO. (But they pay lobbyists very well to remain so, now, don't they?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by throttleman
If the past several months of calm and serenity on the forum have bored you, maybe you should spend more time perusing the archives...
Backyard chicken recipe-swapping! Yesss!
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Old 06-19-2004, 10:55 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madrasahs
Can't say. Its nose reached the third floor level of a McMansion across the way. (Offshores have noses at the pointy-end).
I'm neither pro nor con on this debate, but if the boat was nearby & appeared to reach the 3rd floor of a building in the distance, that doesn't mean it was 3 stories tall. It's an illusion.

I just held out my thumb at arms length and looked at a one story house in the distance. My thumb went from the ground to just a little above the roof. That doesn't mean my thumb is as long as a house is tall, just that the perspective is different. Because my thumb was close, it appeared larger than the house in the background.
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