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Old 03-26-2004, 11:45 AM   #101
Lofty
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Default Re: Got Boats?

It's just that attitude that will keep me and my money away from YOUR lake. What makes you think I've never been there? As a matter of fact I lived just outside Keene NH for many years. I owned a thriving manufacturing company and employed many NH natives. I understand the issues all too well. And as to my boating experience I must laugh. Who do you think you're talking to? Do you know what my boating experience is? I didn't think so. While living in NH I owned many boats large and small. I spent my time on the many lakes of the region and in the coastal waters. In my late teens I crewed on a Crab Boat in Alaska. I spent 20+ years in the US Navy. I have sailed from Italy to San Francisco. I have sailed the Trans Pac 5 times. I have rounded the Horn and am here to tell you about it. I have Kayaked on rivers, lakes and the ocean waters. I LOVE boating, it is my life. You may have, along with many others, far more experience than I. However, I feel that my knowledge of boating affords me some latitude and to speak with authority. "Offshore" boats can be safely operated on waterways both vast and small.
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Old 03-26-2004, 12:09 PM   #102
556 ZP
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Default Re: Got Boats?

While I may agree with some of your points, the tone of your post is hostile & I don't blame Lofty for the impressions he is getting about people who boat on Winni with posts like that. You could have been a little more tackful. I hope that attitude is not reflected in your boating.
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Old 03-26-2004, 12:26 PM   #103
madrasahs
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Default Re: Got Boats?

Too bad about Lake Winnie... So much for "Live Free or Die". You have seemed to forget what that means.

We're reminded from time to time.

"You don't just run out and buy a 30+ foot boat that runs 80+ mph without having some knowledge of boating. They are rather pricey in case you are un-aware! I understand your "concerns" for safety."

Winnipesaukee folks know they cost $340,000, and we also know that you do "run out and buy new ones":

http://www.winnipesaukeeforum.com/archive1.cgi?noframes;read=57573
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Old 03-26-2004, 12:28 PM   #104
Mee'n'Mac
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Default Re: Are you still bored? - yup

2 weeks ago I thought it went Bike Week then ...

"Yup, and next the discussion will swing to PWCs or midges or mosquitoes. I forget which comes next though."

Guess I forgot about "go-fast" boat "debating". So let's see it's ice out, bike week, go-fasts, PWCs, then mosquitoes ??
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Old 03-26-2004, 01:34 PM   #105
Rattlesnake Gal
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Default Re: Got Boats?

Lofty,
You are just the kind of boater we like. Responsible. It is very likely that you have more support than you know, but the quiet ones do not want to put a target on themselves.
Your loss if you avoid Winni.
Rattlesnake Gal
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Old 03-26-2004, 03:01 PM   #106
jrc
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Default Re: Are you still bored? - yup

you forgot black flies, dam control/water level, and the newest addition, Mitt Romney's not a swim line
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Old 03-26-2004, 04:47 PM   #107
Mink Islander
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Default Re: Got Boats?

Ughhh did you even read the post I responded to? Why no "attitude" comments for Lofty --- oh, I forgot, you AGREE with him, so it's ok? LOL!

My message was HARDLY on a par with the flamethrowing so many of you revel in!
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Old 03-26-2004, 05:18 PM   #108
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Default Re: Got Boats?

Oh good grief. In your original posts you went out of your way to sound like a west coast guy who "happened" to be considering a vacation in NH --and then proceeded to trash anyone who had a negative view on performance boats. Now your a displaced NHite? LOL. How deceptive of you!

Doesn't matter. I stand by my prior post. Your Navy experience isn't relevant. You don't boat here. You are in no position to lecture any of us on the skills/knowledge of power boat owners in this area. I've seen plenty of bad behavior in all types of boats -- including those sacred performance boats. There's a lot of $$ on the lake these days and I really wouldn't assume that just because it costs a lot of money, the performance boat pilot is competent. Or the captain of that big cruiser bearing down on you for that matter. Look at the guy who flipped a brand new performance boat only last year horsing around as an example. Doesn't mean they're all idiots, but some are and they're the ones everyone notices!

And by the way, they do indeed ban performance boats on some lakes in other states. And even limit horsepower on some lakes in NH so don't believe for a minute that you have absolute rights to the waterways....

Ice out in three weeks (or less?) and the fish are waiting.....
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Old 03-26-2004, 05:55 PM   #109
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Default Re: Got Boats?

From what Lofty has said - it sounds like it could be our loss too! Bet he's an interesting guy!
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Old 03-26-2004, 06:19 PM   #110
Packy Derm
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Default Wed, proposed no-noise day, include Meadowbrook

If you are going to keep the noise down, do it for a full 24 hour day. And not just limited to boats. Cars Cycles and Meadowbrook Farm concerts.

Packy
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Old 03-26-2004, 06:26 PM   #111
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Default Re: My Conclusions

Now let me get this straight. In your point of view, an offshore boat owner is dangerous because his or her boat is big and fast? Get real. The number one cause of death on the water is drowning. Not collision with an "offshore" boat. The number one group of boaters who drown, fisherman in sub 20 foot open boats. The number one cause, intoxication. Thats right, they fall overboard drunk while relieving themselves of all the beer they have ingested while fishing.
Safety is your stated concern? I would be willing to bet that the average "offshore" boat operater has more safety training than the average " cottager" on the water. They have better equipped boats with full compliments of safety and first aid gear. They have far fewer accidents in the first place but that is so easy for you to dismiss as arrogance isn't it. Most "offshore" boaters have one hell of alot of money tied up in their boats and aren't foolish enough to endanger it, themselves, their crews or those around them by recklessly operating their vessels in crowded lakes.
Now, lets talk about the "average" boater who has no formal training,no safety gear or knowledge to use it. Very little knowledge of the rules of the water and how to operate a vessel according to those rules. The kid out in mom and dads runabout, tin boat, canoe or PWC who really has no clue what so ever as to what they are doing or should be doing. The sail boater running under power who thinks that just because they have a sail boat they have the right of way at all times.The cabin cruiser couple who bought the biggest floating condo they could afford from the shiny salesman at the boat show but never got the training to go with it.The weekend boater who thinks a boat is just like a car because it has seats and a steering wheel but figures it ok to drive while impaired because thats what "boating" is all about. Yes, lets talk about safety on the water shall we. You asked for rational debate on the safety issue. I offer it. Please feel free to explain to me how the "offshore" boaters are so dangerous in direct comparison to the "average" boaters on your or any other body of water. Or am I just being too arrogant?
P.S. I own and operate a boat that is capable of running almost 100 mph. I have never had one single incident that could be considered an accident in 25 years of boating.Maybe I am just an "arrogant bully" and anyone who might have been killed by me stayed out of my way because I have an offshore boat? Or could it be that maybe, just maybe I as an "offshore" boater take safety, mine and everyone's around me very very seriously.
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Old 03-26-2004, 06:54 PM   #112
Lofty
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Default Change of heart?

Well from the overwhelming response I think I'll come out after all! I've decided that this might be a fun little lake but I've made up my mind no "Offshore" boat as it's too dangerous because of its' size and the attitude of those other boaters around it. I think that most of you will steer under by bow just to prove your point.

I think I'll be bringing my 19' Sanger. Its a sweet little pickle fork, one seat(in a capsule) and will do well over 200MPH if I can keep it on the water. It has a 1500hp blown Keith Black top fuel motor. It frightens the crap out of me every time I run it. It has two speeds, go and go much faster. It won't throw any wake and should be easy to see as the rooster tail will be about 50' high. If you remove your ear plugs you should be able to hear me coming for miles. I might get ticket or two for that but what the hell, I can afford it and I just don't care.
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Old 03-26-2004, 07:00 PM   #113
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Default Re: Change of heart?

Oh darn! How can we miss you when you won't go away?
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Old 03-26-2004, 07:23 PM   #114
Lofty
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Default Re: Got Boats?

Man, you're a real piece of work aren't you? There was nothing "deceptive" about my original post, you're just spinning it to your taste. You said "and then proceeded to trash anyone who had a negative view on performance boats. Now your a displaced NHite?" Could you please, I have a hard time reading my own writing, show me where I trashed people with an opposing view? As far as me being displaced? I still own a house in Keene, I own property in different states, I own a business that keeps me on the move. You? My Navy experience isn't relevant?!?!?! I must inform the State Department, they got ripped off in that case. You state "You are in no position to lecture any of us
on the skills/knowledge of power boat owners in this area"; Does one require a DIFFERENT skill set in that region? It must have something to do with magnetic deviation. I'm shocked by that statement and it tells me that YOU have little or NO skill with regards to boating and navigation. I would imagine few if any of your fellows would agree with you on that point but I would certainly enjoy hearing your dissertation on this subject. It seems that you feel YOU are in a position to lecture me and others on what peculiar skill are required to navigate in YOUR waters. Sir, you are but a fool. Tap tap tap, I'm waiting.
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Old 03-26-2004, 07:37 PM   #115
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Default Re: Are you still bored? - yup

"you forgot black flies, dam control/water level, and the newest addition, Mitt Romney's not a swim line "

Thanks, I'll add these to the agenda

FWIW - I do think the Mitt "swim line" touches on an area that is philsophically important to how we mere mortals are to conduct our democracy (vs European aristocracies of old). Worthy of considered discussion, say in the June time-frame ?
hehehehe...
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Old 03-26-2004, 07:38 PM   #116
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Default Re: Change of heart?

Hey didn't I see you on Walden Pond last year??? LOL
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Old 03-26-2004, 08:26 PM   #117
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Default Re: My Conclusions

Lemme see.....
a) you've never had an "incident" that could be "considered" an accident. Considered by you, or considered by the person you had an incident with??

b) Offshore owners have the best saftey equipment and best training....would that include the guy a year or so ago that had an extra few hundred thousand dollars hangin around so he went and bought himself a new Fountain boat and then proceeded to try and turn it on a dime? Remember what happened to him and his friends?

c) or the guy that slammed his Offshore beauty into Parker Island?? are these people that you conveniently forget about?

the more of these guys I have contact with the more I now think the reason they "need" those big boats is to carry around those huge ego-swollen heads, and one Sunday afternoon of sitting at the Naswa would confirm that.

Happy Boating all
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Old 03-26-2004, 08:43 PM   #118
Mee'n'Mac
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Default Re: Got Boats?

"I've seen plenty of bad behavior in all types of boats -- including those sacred performance boats. There's a lot of $$ on the lake these days and I really wouldn't assume that just because it costs a lot of money, the performance boat pilot is competent. Or the captain of that big cruiser bearing down on you for that matter. Look at the guy who flipped a brand new performance boat only last year horsing around as an example. Doesn't mean they're all idiots, but some are and they're the ones everyone notices!"

MI,
First let me say that in responding to your post I'm not trying to argue (in the bad sense) against you. Rather I believe from past history that you're pretty reasonable wrt this oft occuring "debate". I post here because I think you've hit on a good point above. First I agree in that I've seen "bad behavior" in all types of boats. I see no trend to brand any type of boat as "guilty". Then there's no good reason to assume the performance boat pilot has the credentials to be "competent". AND BY the same reasoning, there's no reason to ASSUME he/she is incompetent. This latter point seems to get lost in this debate. There's no correlation btw good sense and $$$. My OPINION is that, on the lake, there's probably, at worst, as many Cap't B's, per capita, behind the helm of performance boats as behind the helm of other boats. Just because the public doesn't NOTICE when other "non-performance" boaters screw-up doesn't mean they shouldn't (and accord scorn appropriately). That's why I find it interesting (to paraphrase Mr Spock) to see people so worried about performance boats. Not that the concern is baseless, but rather mis-ranked. I'd be more concerned about Capt'n B behind the helm of the much more numerous average boats ramming me than Capt'n B doing the same at the helm of the relatively rare performance boat.

FWIW - I don't think any deception was intended. Simply "full disclosure" was not warranted, at least until "qualifications" as a good boater came into the discussion. Frankly I can only hope that stereotypes may be tempered by the Biggus & Lofty etal posts.

PPS - Again I really don't have a dog in this fight. Our measly 24' mini-cruiser certinly isn't fast, nor large by todays standards.
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Old 03-28-2004, 06:44 AM   #119
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Default Re: Got Boats?

Unfortunately this site although it can be very informative at times is probably more noted for it's bashing qualities. More than once the subject of toning down the content has come up. There is a point when the responses become down right nasty and should not be allowed. But then I suppose it would have to become a full time job just weeding out the trash responses. It would be a much better site if the subject matter stayed with the subject instead of venturing off to bash a particular boat type or owner.
You are probably a very responsible driver when your on the lake like the majority are. But there are others who drive high profile boats like your's who are not so in tune with what's around them.
Remember this, the family boat owner/drivers out number the performance boats on Winni. by at least 20 to 1. As do the infractions written up by the Marine Patrol. The next biggest violation group would be the jet ski owners.
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Old 03-28-2004, 10:26 AM   #120
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Default Re: Got Boats?

"Remember this, the family boat owner/drivers out number the performance boats on Winni. by at least 20 to 1. As do the infractions written up by the Marine Patrol. The next biggest violation group would be the jet ski owners."

Re your last two lines (the above quote), please advise or post the statistics that you quote, we would all be very interested to see the info.
Ever look at who cops pull over on the highway? So often it is a kid, whom I bet is singled out just because he is a kid (we'll teach him a lesson), no matter if he was speeding along with the pack, the kid gets singled out, (hey wait isn't this profiling??)
Same I would guess for big boats, loudboats, offshore boats, boats filled with young guys etc. vs the family laden bow rider. Who gets the scrutiny and who gets the pass....be honest with yourself when you think about this one...

BTW, my boats is a "speedy" 14' with a 7.5 HP, I have no bias here
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Old 03-28-2004, 07:39 PM   #121
Grossus
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Default Re: Got Boats?

Thank you for your reassuring words - not that other opinions and trash responses bother me. They don't know who I am. I know that I am a responsible driver, with lots of common sense. Everything I do on Winnipesaukee is legal.

Family boats have nothing to fear from me and my go-fast "offshore" buddies. When we hit the lake, we are a pretty tight bunch.

As for the Marine Patrol -- I've never seen them or heard their sirens.

I support your views. You can certainly count on future support from we boaters, Biggus and Grossus.
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Old 03-28-2004, 08:35 PM   #122
Sceptic
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Default Re: Got Boats?

You're absolutely right BR. It is terrible that several people who thought this forum was a place to give their opinions and concerns get continuously bashed and put down. The "bigger, noisier and faster the better" crowd don't want to tone it down or discuss it, they just hammer away, always having to get the last word. Go ahead.
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Old 03-29-2004, 06:08 AM   #123
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Default Re: Got Boats?

50% is observation, the other 50% is based on conversations I have with various MP officers when I stop and chat with them during the course of the summer. Usually during the week when it is less busy.
I personally don't see as many young kids out in boats as I do driving. Jetski's yes, but a lot of the ones I do see I'd like to ring their neck cause they are driving like fools.
Granted this doesn't constitute all jet ski drivers but a good majority of them are giving the rest a really bad name.
This is the case with offshore boat owners as well.
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Old 03-29-2004, 07:54 AM   #124
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Default Re: My Conclusions

WOW, you can site 2 whole incidents involving "offshores". Thats pretty impressive. How many "average" boater incidents have there been in the same time frame?

I repeat, I have never in 25 years of boating been involved in any incident that could be considered an "accident". NO collisions, NO rolled boats or islands hit. Whats so hard to understand about that? I have had several close calls with idiots on PWC's nearly hitting me from behind or turning across my bow but somehow, I avoided making tham into speed bumps. I guess they must have had the "offshore boaters" mentality because they drive around looking to cause unsafe situations
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Old 03-30-2004, 11:40 AM   #125
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Default Re: Got Boats?

You mean this one!?:

Since you've never been here, how can you possibly understand the issues being debated here (often ad nauseum!) Owning a big fast boat on the West Coast hardly makes you an expert on boating issues in the Lakes Region of NH or the buying habits and experience levels of their operators for that matter. Instead of venting about things you know little about, please just stay home -- we really won't miss you!

Yeah, I read it, seemed pretty clear to me what you were trying to say... Did I miss something!? Must be that clean island living that makes you interpret things differently!? Oh, wait I have a house on an island up there as well, but ours has a bridge to it, so it must be the bridge vs. no bridge scenario... Face it, your comments are unfounded and I honestly think you just like to stir it up.
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Old 04-08-2004, 02:38 PM   #126
NautiqueJeff
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Back to the topic....

I have a 2003 Correct Craft Super Air Nautique 210. For those who aren't into watersports, it is a wakeboarding boat. We had a 1994 Ski Nautique, and that was a great boat too. We'll be taking the boat with us to Winnipesaukee this summer. This is the first year that we'll be staying on the water, although we have a good number of years experience navigating the lake. I can't wait to get there!



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Old 04-13-2004, 10:16 AM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belmont Resident
Yes driver responsibility is priority.
But a little common sense would also prevail.
The lake is getting more and more crowded and there is nothing you or I or anyone else is going to do to change that for now. So stop trying to find fault in boaters and take a little initiative. Noticed a couple out there last year with those orange flags. Highly visible from a great distance. Great idea I thought.
I've notice that you are great at pointing fingers.
Why not help promote safe boating instead of rating all of us based on the actions of a few.
Power Squadron, Marine patrol to mention a couple are out to promoting safe boating why not join them. I for one think that this whole boater education thing falls short. It's a great start but needs to be updated regularly. Rules and regulations change from year to year. I belive we should be required to take refresher course every so often to stay on top of things.
You always seem to be quick to post a negative reply. I've been boating on this lake for a number of years. I can't begin to tell you how many boaters I've helped out, towed in to the nearest dock, etc. Yet I drive a semi fast boat. I say semi cause although it pushes 70 there are other much faster. So does this make me a bad offshore boater? Did I neglect to mention it's only 25', about the average size of a lot of you family bow riders not traveling the lake?
Belmont:

I wonder if that couple you saw with the orange flag was myself and my wife. Here in New Jersey it is required by law to put up an orange flag when water skiing or tubing. When we were at Winnipesaukee last summer we noticed that no other boats were flying one for this but decided we would put ours up anyway. We had several boats pass by but no one come close or caused concern. After reading your post I will always put it up law or no law.

Alex
Lake Hopatcong, NJ
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Old 04-13-2004, 05:21 PM   #128
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I agree, back to the topic...

I have a 99 Chaparral 1830. We replaced our 2003 Chaparral 265 SSi with this boat, and put it right at our dock on Lovell Lake...We loved being on Winnie, but we rack stored. Having the boat right at our dock, behind the summer home is great.
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