Best Town to live in ?

[bigdog]

Looking for peoples thoughts on best town to live at the Big Lake.
Contemplating moving from current location partly because of taxes.

I'm retired and see most of my income going to pay real estate taxes, so this is a serious factor. I currently have property in Gilford, but no sure I can remain there ?

Looking at towns that have the best ‘bang for the buck’ !
Taxes, Shopping, Restaurants, Medical, Social activities, etc

I have listed the towns I am giving serious thought, not necessarily in any order: Meredith, Alton, Wolfeboro, Sanbornton, Belmont, Gilmanton, Tilton.
Not interested in towns of Moultonborough Tuftonboro, Laconia, Ctr Harbor.

Thanks in advance, for your feedback

[John Mercier]

Think in terms more of the property.
With all that is up in the air on SWEPT and how that is all going to be solved, Gilford may be one of the better locations... just not early enough to tell.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by bigdog

Looking for peoples thoughts on best town to live at the Big Lake.
Contemplating moving from current location partly because of taxes.

I'm retired and see most of my income going to pay real estate taxes, so this is a serious factor. I currently have property in Gilford, but no sure I can remain there ?

Looking at towns that have the best ‘bang for the buck’ !
Taxes, Shopping, Restaurants, Medical, Social activities, etc

I have listed the towns I am giving serious thought, not necessarily in any order: Meredith, Alton, Wolfeboro, Sanbornton, Belmont, Gilmanton, Tilton.
Not interested in towns of Moultonborough Tuftonboro, Laconia, Ctr Harbor.

Thanks in advance, for your feedback

I'm in Meredith and I love it but I'm not sure if it's that much better than Gilford. I had a home in Sanbornton, taxes were very high and not much to offer in that town.
If I was looking today Gilford would probably be one of the towns at the top of my list.

[nj2nh]

Perhaps a little perspective might help. I live in NJ where I pay income taxes, property taxes, and sales tax. My modest little house costs me $22,000 annually in property taxes.

My parents’ house in Alton on the water that goes back 100 years? $7800 annually and that includes the NH view tax. The value of that house is the same as mine in NJ plus I pay income tax and that pesky sales tax.

If only I could move north.

[John Mercier]

NH doesn't have a view tax.
And Alton is one of the town's at risk under the current constitutional crisis.

[ITD]

Yeah, NH doesn't have a view tax, but if you have a view you pay more taxes. Especially if it's of water.

[John Mercier]

Anything that makes a property more valuable is assessed as part of the market value process.

[ITD]

Erm, if you say so...

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by nj2nh

Perhaps a little perspective might help. I live in NJ where I pay income taxes, property taxes, and sales tax.

My folks moved from NJ to NH, and who can blame them?

They lived in south Jersey; both worked in Philadelphia.

The taxation was brutal: they paid NJ income tax, Pennsylvania income tax, and Philadelphia city income tax, plus NJ had a sales tax and a high property tax.

[John Mercier]

Do you see somewhere on your tax bill that it states ''view tax''?
Somewhere on your assessment?

But you may have given us the perfect way to raise the $500M we need at the State level. Since everyone is complaining already about something that doesn't exist... we should give them something to complain about.

[MeredithMan]

Originally Posted by bigdog

Looking for peoples thoughts on best town to live at the Big Lake.
Contemplating moving from current location partly because of taxes.

I'm retired and see most of my income going to pay real estate taxes, so this is a serious factor. I currently have property in Gilford, but no sure I can remain there ?

Looking at towns that have the best ‘bang for the buck’ !
Taxes, Shopping, Restaurants, Medical, Social activities, etc

I have listed the towns I am giving serious thought, not necessarily in any order: Meredith, Alton, Wolfeboro, Sanbornton, Belmont, Gilmanton, Tilton.
Not interested in towns of Moultonborough Tuftonboro, Laconia, Ctr Harbor.

Thanks in advance, for your feedback

I would suggest that while the tax bill is an important consideration, the choice of where to live really centers around "Quality of Life" and does the town have the amenities and services that you want and / or need. When we moved to NH full-time a number of years ago, we ultimately decided on Bedford to be our primary residence. The taxes are not trivial in this town and we do not have kids in the schools. However, it checked off all of our boxes...great doctors and dentists; multiple grocery stores/shopping/restaurants, (i.e. "civilization"); very close to Manchester airport and reasonably close to Logan, (we both travel for work); An easy ride to the lake; and lastly, while the real estate market can be unpredictable, it "should" be a decent resale when it is time to retire since the town is a desirable location.

Regarding the lake towns on your list, we've been in Meredith for 12 years and love it. The Main Street village is very quaint and is doing well, with its shops and restaurants. "Box Store" shopping is a short drive to Gilford or Tilton. Over the years, we have looked very seriously at a few places for sale in Moultonboro that would give us more house for half the tax bill, but ultimately decided not to pursue them, as going to the grocery store and back would be an hour+ excursion. So again, I would recommend don't move for the tax bill; move for the better quality of life, (if there is one).

Good luck in your decision.

[Descant]

Do we really NEED $500MM? Didn't the legislature cut the budget by 8% in 2009 and create a new floor for lower spending? In Chris Sununu's first term, we cut some (business) taxes and raised revenues. In the mid-teens, we eliminated taxes on NH Trusts, even for those who weren't residents and money flowed in for re-investment. Next year, we will eliminate the I & D tax and all the DRA folks who administer that program can result in lower personnel expenses, or be assigned to more "profitable" pursuits. All us retirees who need I & D income will have more money to spend.

Raising taxes to raise more money should not be the default option in a government budget process.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Descant

Raising taxes to raise more money should not be the default option in a government budget process.

Well said and Amen to that Descant!!

Dan

[ITD]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Do you see somewhere on your tax bill that it states ''view tax''?
Somewhere on your assessment?

But you may have given us the perfect way to raise the $500M we need at the State level. Since everyone is complaining already about something that doesn't exist... we should give them something to complain about.

The state needs to control spending not raise more money. As to your first question, reread my first post on this matter. Your answer is very clearly there.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by Descant

Do we really NEED $500MM? Didn't the legislature cut the budget by 8% in 2009 and create a new floor for lower spending? In Chris Sununu's first term, we cut some (business) taxes and raised revenues. In the mid-teens, we eliminated taxes on NH Trusts, even for those who weren't residents and money flowed in for re-investment. Next year, we will eliminate the I & D tax and all the DRA folks who administer that program can result in lower personnel expenses, or be assigned to more "profitable" pursuits. All us retirees who need I & D income will have more money to spend.

Raising taxes to raise more money should not be the default option in a government budget process.

Nailed it Descant, and while I hope the I and D tax sunsets, I'm not holding my breath, the rhetoric is going strong to bring it back, they just haven't gotten around to saying it out loud yet.

[8gv]

Xanadu, it's Xanadu.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Descant

Do we really NEED $500MM? Didn't the legislature cut the budget by 8% in 2009 and create a new floor for lower spending? In Chris Sununu's first term, we cut some (business) taxes and raised revenues. In the mid-teens, we eliminated taxes on NH Trusts, even for those who weren't residents and money flowed in for re-investment. Next year, we will eliminate the I & D tax and all the DRA folks who administer that program can result in lower personnel expenses, or be assigned to more "profitable" pursuits. All us retirees who need I & D income will have more money to spend.

Raising taxes to raise more money should not be the default option in a government budget process.

You are failing to differentiate between taxes and rates. Lower rates lead to more economic activity and generally larger tax revenue.

The first option the budget will need about $500M to replace SWEPT and stop the donor community situation from returning. The SWEPT would be gone, but the new mechanism would need to be in place. The Legislature would need to act to remove the mandates pushing the grants up.

The second option is to keep SWEPT, accept the donor communities - their taxes would go higher; the Legislature would still need to remove the mandates pushing the grants up.

The third option is to keep the SWEPT, accept the donor communities; the Legislature does not remove the mandates... but constitutionally must come up with the revenues to pay for the mandates.

That all needs to be done in nearly one year.

No tax rate reduction will increase revenue to the State by $500M in one year's time... that is just math. Never mind if the Legislature fails to act on the mandate dismissal and needs to raise as much as $1B

So the budget process has to start with constitutionally required costs... and raise funding for at least those...
That means at a bear minimum the Legislature must find $500M in revenue in other sources, I get lot of landowners to say ''I love being a donor community''.

Politically both suck.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by ITD

Nailed it Descant, and while I hope the I and D tax sunsets, I'm not holding my breath, the rhetoric is going strong to bring it back, they just haven't gotten around to saying it out loud yet.

So you'd be happy being a ''Donor Community'' tax payer?
If not, they need the $500M to replace the SWEPT.
It isn't an increase in the budget, just the mechanism by which it is raised.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by ITD

The state needs to control spending not raise more money. As to your first question, reread my first post on this matter. Your answer is very clearly there.

Not really. Unless your suggesting that a view doesn't make property more valuable. If that is the case, plant a lot of bushes between you and the water.
View is gone... now see if the valuation of your property drops.

[bigdog]

Boy, did I open a Pandora's box,I just want suggested opinions on towns, I honestly didn't think the responses would go in this direction

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by bigdog

Boy, did I open a Pandora's box,I just want suggested opinions on towns, I honestly didn't think the responses would go in this direction

Being born and raised in NH and having had the opportunity to live in multiple different towns in the southern half of the state, I can say for certain that Gilford has been our favorite by far! Friendly people, clean, low crime and the ladies at the town hall are the best! We honestly don’t find the taxes to be that bad for what the town has to offer.

Remember the grass isn’t always greener…..well, you know the rest!

Good luck in your search!

Dan

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by bigdog

Boy, did I open a Pandora's box,I just want suggested opinions on towns, I honestly didn't think the responses would go in this direction

Because it is probably not the town.

Gilford has some property that is seeing assessment increases above the average, and other below the average.

The properties seeing the increase above the average is having more taxation shifted to it, while the others are having less taxation shifted to them.

And even with that shifting, it is about finding what size fits your personal needs and lifestyle.

Gilford, Laconia, Meredith, or even Wolfeboro... it is going to be a more personal decision.

[codeman671]

After living on the seacoast for almost all my life we are happy as can be to live in Gilford. My businesses are still in Dover so I have to commute, but hate it down there. Dover has gone to hell. Talk about taxes! Gilford is very inexpensive compared to the seacoast.

You may save a few bucks living in Tuftonboro or Moultonborough, but you would be very isolated. I have tons of privacy, a killer view, and can be on my boat in 7 minutes. 10 min to a grocery store, Lowes, concerts, and various restaurants.

[Resident 2B]

If we were to buy again in the Lakes Region, it would likely be in Gilford. We also like Meredith, but all things considered, Gilford wins head-to-head right now.

R2B

[Descant]

From John Mercier:
"So the budget process has to start with constitutionally required costs... and raise funding for at least those...
That means at a bear (sic) minimum the Legislature must find $500M in revenue in other sources, I get lot of landowners to say ''I love being a donor community''.

Your basic language is wrong. The Legislature does not need to raise $500MM, they only need to allocate $500MM, if, in fact, that is the real number. ("M" is for thousand. If you want million, use "MM".) The budget year is after the even year election, i.e. 2025. 2024 is not a budget year. In most election years, about one third of the legislature turns over. Whatever spending bills are proposed for 2024 action, will be voted to be held over (and then re-filed) for a budget year.

Again, I apologize to the OP for following posts that go off course. Back to best town.

I pretty much grew up in Gilford and Laconia although technically not a full time resident(college, Navy). I always felt that if I were in Meredith or Alton, I had to go to Laconia/Gilford for services, or, in the case of Meredith, I had to find alternate routes in the summer. I still like Gilford.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

I can say for certain that Gilford has been our favorite by far! Friendly people, clean, low crime and the ladies at the town hall are the best! We honestly don’t find the taxes to be that bad for what the town has to offer.
Dan

In my opinion Gilford is great. The many options for dining and shopping are close by and having a Lowes 10 minutes away is very helpful. Some days when working on projects around the house I end up at Lowes 2 or 3 times (due to poor planning on my part) That would be a painful drive if it was 45 minutes away.

I second the opinion about the ladies at town hall. The Town Clerk, Danielle LaFond, and the entire staff are helpful and personable every time I have gone in there. They handle every transaction with the attitude that they are there to help you. Not all town halls are like that. It is the same at the Gilford recycle center. A great helpful crew.

[BroadHopper]

The Lakes Region area has taken a real beating property-wise.

My family moved from Gilford to Laconia because of taxes since the state took over evaluation in the 80s, newspaper articles of 'view' tax, etc. abound.

Now Winnisquam is taking a big hit and so is Newfound Lake! The area will soon be taken over by millionaires!

We've been looking at the Rangely Lake area in Maine. It reminds me of what it was like in the Lakes Region back in the 50s, and 60s. I can see why Ralph Bayre moved back home!

If you want tax relief you must get off the lake, unfortunately. While my taxes have taken a beating, the landowners that are not near a body of water are reaping the benefits of low evaluation, yet they are the ones benefiting from year-round town and state services. Just think of those families that rent in multi-family units struck gold!

All the more reason why the property tax system should be replaced. Perhaps a VAT system?

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

The Lakes Region area has taken a real beating property-wise.

My family moved from Gilford to Laconia because of taxes since the state took over evaluation in the 80s, newspaper articles of 'view' tax, etc. abound.

Now Winnisquam is taking a big hit and so is Newfound Lake! The area will soon be taken over by millionaires!

We've been looking at the Rangely Lake area in Maine. It reminds me of what it was like in the Lakes Region back in the 50s, and 60s. I can see why Ralph Bayre moved back home!

If you want tax relief you must get off the lake, unfortunately. While my taxes have taken a beating, the landowners that are not near a body of water are reaping the benefits of low evaluation, yet they are the ones benefiting from year-round town and state services. Just think of those families that rent in multi-family units struck gold!

All the more reason why the property tax system should be replaced. Perhaps a VAT system?

Taxes in Maine are no bargain. On the plus side, if you have waterfront property you can sell for big bucks, buy off the water, and bank some money. People with property off the lake don't have that option.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

We've been looking at the Rangely Lake area in Maine. It reminds me of what it was like in the Lakes Region back in the 50s, and 60s. I can see why Ralph Bayre moved back home!

I guess I don't understand....You want to leave NH because of the taxes and move to a MORE tax burdened state to save money??

Maine is in the top 10 of the most tax burdened states in the entire country at a whopping 12.4%!....and if I am not mistaken their overall property tax alone is higher than NH!!

Sorry, but this makes no sense...

Dan

[Major]

If we had to do it over again, we would have built our home in Gilford or Meredith, not Laconia. At the time (2007/2008), my dad owned a lot in SD/LB, and it made sense. Laconia was different than it is now. That said, we greatly enjoy SD/LB, so that makes it somewhat palatable.

As well documented, Laconia has gone downhill the past 10+ years. Instead of investing in businesses to attract middle class families, Laconia has instead invested in Section 8 housing and rehab centers. Now, downtown Laconia is chock full of homeless tweekers making it unsafe, especially for women. My wife used to go on the WOW trail for walks. She would never consider using it now.

Even SD/LB isn't immune from the crime. We have homeless people walking through the SD/LB property. They follow the railroad tracks, and eventually work their way to the Laconia State School. We had a homeless person attempt to break into our home in October. Thankfully, the doors were locked.

[Slickcraft]

We live in West Alton which is convenient to services in Gilford & Laconia but with lower taxes. Also, a short drive to Fay’s and the Glendale docks.

Alan

[Descant]

I read the OP again, and been following the thread. It really sounds like BigDog is already in the best position. If you move someplace else because of property taxes, you might save a couple of thousand a year, but your other expenses will likely remain constant or even go up as you re-establish in a new location. A second opinion on the retirement plan might give a better perspective.

[John Mercier]

You really can't ''invest in businesses'' as a municipality.
Laconia has expanded the options for light industry over the years, but didn't pay attention to the effects of BPT/BET, energy, and transportation costs in the equation. Franklin learned that when the negotiations over Polyclad broke down and the decision was to relocate as many workers to plants down south and out west.
We had seen the same thing just a few years before when Hadco was purchased by Sanmina - so we knew the drill.

The idea to lower BPT/BET to at least equal to the lowest rates in the northeast quad was a long negotiation also. Havenstein felt an immediate drop of 2.5% would work. The math stated that dropping the rate would increase growth as an offset, but in years... not a single cycle. The thought was about 5/10th percent each budget... the proposal came out 4/10ths each budget cycle, and the Legislature finally somewhat settled on 2/10ths every cycle. There are voices in opposition, but they are easy to put down as the growth of businesses means a growth in jobs (or at least not the loss of).

Laconia turned to tourism... but maybe didn't do it as well as Wolfeboro or Meredith. Which is strange, since Meredith has Rte 3 between the town retail area and the lake - a heavily travelled route.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Descant

From John Mercier:
"So the budget process has to start with constitutionally required costs... and raise funding for at least those...
That means at a bear (sic) minimum the Legislature must find $500M in revenue in other sources, I get lot of landowners to say ''I love being a donor community''.

Your basic language is wrong. The Legislature does not need to raise $500MM, they only need to allocate $500MM, if, in fact, that is the real number. ("M" is for thousand. If you want million, use "MM".) The budget year is after the even year election, i.e. 2025. 2024 is not a budget year. In most election years, about one third of the legislature turns over. Whatever spending bills are proposed for 2024 action, will be voted to be held over (and then re-filed) for a budget year.

Again, I apologize to the OP for following posts that go off course. Back to best town.

I pretty much grew up in Gilford and Laconia although technically not a full time resident(college, Navy). I always felt that if I were in Meredith or Alton, I had to go to Laconia/Gilford for services, or, in the case of Meredith, I had to find alternate routes in the summer. I still like Gilford.

Thank you for the correction on the abbreviation of MM instead of M.
The SWEPT is currently unconstitutional... barring any changes... the State cannot collect it come June - doesn't matter if it is a budget year.

The Legislature this year would need to change to collect and redistribute with donor community, or repeal/replace.

There is not $500MM (my estimate based on the current collection of the SWEPT and using a less efficient taxing mechanism) for the Legislature to cut from the expenditure of the unrestricted funds - the budget already having been past.

When it does the next budget... it may tweak the expenditure to recover the nearly $1 Billion for the two year cycle that budget will represent.

It may ask the stay of the courts... but they are going to expect some action on the situation rather than just pushing it off and continuing an unconstitutional situation.

[samosetguy]

I'm not sure why you didn't mention Gilford as an option. We're in Gilford. I think Gilford is the best option for lots of reasons (e.g. stores, restaurants, lake access, Glendale, beaches (Ellacoya, town beach), BofNH Pavilian, etc.). However, it really depends on how much money you want to spend and what's available to purchase. if you can find something on the water that fits your budget but it's in another town, I wouldn't let the town drive your decision. If it's off season, the driving between towns shouldn't be too difficult. If it's in-season, you're not going to be able to get anywhere regardless of where you are.

[LoveLakeLife]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Thank you for the correction on the abbreviation of MM instead of M.

The SWEPT is currently unconstitutional... barring any changes... the State cannot collect it come June - doesn't matter if it is a budget year.

The Legislature this year would need to change to collect and redistribute with donor community, or repeal/replace.

There is not $500MM (my estimate based on the current collection of the SWEPT and using a less efficient taxing mechanism) for the Legislature to cut from the expenditure of the unrestricted funds - the budget already having been past.

When it does the next budget... it may tweak the expenditure to recover the nearly $1 Billion for the two year cycle that budget will represent.

It may ask the stay of the courts... but they are going to expect some action on the situation rather than just pushing it off and continuing an unconstitutional situation.

In Roman numerals M is 1000. In common parlance, K is a thousand (kilo) and M is a million. I vote for the latter use. The former use just looks weird. Who’s with me? lol


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[SAB1]

This is really a personal decision and based on what you want from your living arrangement. Moultonboro, tuftonboro, wolfeboro are totally different lake living styles from meredith, Gilford side of lake. Nothing is at your finger tips on the tuftonboro side. It quieter, more rustic old lake charm though it is slowing eroding toward the other side.

[bigdog]

FYI to all.....I'm moving to 'down-size', house is way too big for us.

I love Gilford, however, not sure I can find a smaller house in town, inventory is always low.

Yeah, taxes are high, but I guess I get more than other towns can offer for amenities. Still would like to explore other options...

Someone said here 'the grass is not always greener on the other side',
maybe I should heed that advice......

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by bigdog

FYI to all.....I'm moving to 'down-size', house is way too big for us.

I love Gilford, however, not sure I can find a smaller house in town, inventory is always low.

Yeah, taxes are high, but I guess I get more than other towns can offer for amenities. Still would like to explore other options...

Someone said here 'the grass is not always greener on the other side',
maybe I should heed that advice......

I think you're going through what every boomer is going through right now, wanting to downsize, but realizing that there really isn't anything out there to downsize to that's affordable. That's why I think the market is going to stay strong as many people are deciding that staying put is the best option right now, esp if you have a sub 3% mortgage or no mortgage. That will keep inventory low for quite some time. Builders aren't going to help because there's not enough profit in building smaller homes.

[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by Biggd

I think you're going through what every boomer is going through right now, wanting to downsize, but realizing that there really isn't anything out there to downsize to that's affordable. That's why I think the market is going to stay strong as many people are deciding that staying put is the best option right now, esp if you have a sub 3% mortgage or no mortgage. That will keep inventory low for quite some time. Builders aren't going to help because there's not enough profit in building smaller homes.

Another factor many overlook is security. Unless an affordable community is deeded over 55 It will eventually become low income or section 8. Retirees need the security of a gated community. Very few in this area

[Descant]

I think Section 8 is misunderstood. I have had tenants who received section 8 assistance (1 & 2 family buildings in a neighborhood, not an apartment complex). Nobody would ever know they were part of the program. NH Housing can also provide assistance with buying a house.
Concentrating one demographic to the exclusion of others, whether section 8 or McMansions doesn't appear to me to enhance the overall community, but that's what we have with many NH zoning codes.

BTW, Laconia and Wolfeboro are not on BigDog's approved list, but both have very nice retirement communities (Taylor) with single family homes and many services aimed at retirees.

[upthesaukee]

My wife and I moved into Alton Bay about the 1st of May in 1996. We moved into my mom's house, which she and Dad bought in 1977. It is about a half mile off the lake, just outside of the Sandy Point area on the west side of the bay.

Love the area. Restaurants include Shibley's at the Pier (somewhat seasonal), Pop's (seasonal). Shibley's Drive in (seasonal), Bay diner, Foster's, Dockside, and Ackerly's. Short trip to Johnson's in New Durham, several spots in Wolfeboro, a few in Barnstead, and several in the Gilford / Laconia area.

Overall tax rate is good. Population is right at 6,000.

Quaint area in the bay and small business up town. Catholic Church and a small church.

For me, age mid to late 70's, it's a great place to live.

Dave

[Major]

Merrimac must have a different demographic than Laconia. I've had experience with Section 8 housing and it's clientele since 1979. For every "nice" family, there are many, many more "not so nice" families. One thing they have in common is that they are allergic to working. Very few, if any, have full time jobs. Almost without exception, when a tenant moves out, the entire unit needs to be remodeled, sometimes down to the studs. Several years ago, one of my sons assisted my dad in cleaning out an unoccupied unit. He could not believe what he saw.

John correctly stated that it is difficult to invest in business at a municipal level, it takes partnership with the state. However, at a local level, we can limit the amount of low income housing. (I guess even that is subject to Federal law as I think of it.) Instead of providing incentives to create low income housing, maybe there is a way to provide those incentives (e.g., tax relief) to investors to rehab single family homes. However, given the makeup of the planning board, and its thirst for tax dollars, I hardly think they would consider making such a long term investment.

One thing we do not need are rehab centers. The City could prohibit those tomorrow if it had the motivation to do so. Also, although probably initiated with the best intent, we don't need facilities like the one on New Salem Street, which has become an attractive nuisance. I've heard there is a facility in Manchester that shuttles homeless people to that facility for help. Great!

[garysanfran]

One consideration about Sec. 8, is that you will have tenants (I call them residents), who are home most of the time and thus create more wear-and-tear.

I've worked with dozens of management companies and public housing agencies, San Francisco and Oakland Housing Authorities, etc.

I've stepped around a murder site at Acorn Housing, Oakland, after a security guard was shot one hour earlier.

I had many Sect. 8 landlord clients. The stories I heard were amazing. Made the movie "Pacific Heights" seem tame. I was interviewed extensively for a HUD publication entitled "Public Housing: Creating Drug Free Neighborhoods".

I believe in any environment, it takes one demented person to ruin a day. In those environs, the percentages increase logarithmically.

The Sect. 8 that worked best, were small landlords with units in good neighborhoods who did thorough background checks.

[Woody38]

We had a 5,000s/f house once. My office was on the first floor. After retirement that house was just too large for us and two dogs. Next, bought a 55+ condo which did not work out well. Next was a ~11-1200s/f house. That was way too small for us. Therefore, the current house is 3385 s/f and a lot for the family.
The California house is 2100 s/f+. About right. The important thing is the layout of the house.

____________________________________

I am a retired workaholic and continuing aquaholic

[Mr. V]

Wife and I both were raised in multi-story homes and decided to buy a one story home with retirement in mind.

What a great decision.

Now there's no worries about falling down the stairs, or being unable to navigate them.

[Descant]

Thanks, Major and Gary. Obviously, my experience is at the other end of the spectrum. And, yes, small landlord and thorough background checks, although there were a few learning steps in the 80's.

[John Mercier]

Laconia single family homes generally get rehabbed whenever they change owners. But even some long time owners have been in to see me to get projects started.

Not sure that low income housing has really as much of a stigma to it that it once had. Representative Littlefield instead of spending 100s of hours in Concord for $100 annually could have spent that time at a second job and made significantly more; but would have lost his low income housing. So it seems to be much more acceptable across the political spectrum.

As for the builders not willing to construct smaller homes because the money isn't there... they are building garages, decks, and screen porches... which cost far less than a small home.
They just build whatever their customer requests.

Taylor Community isn't inexpensive. So what you save in taxes in Gilford may quickly be eaten up in other costs.
And most 55 and older communities will become low income... incomes for most tend to fall after retirement; hence why costs become a concern. If they weren't a concern, they would live at Taylor Community.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Laconia single family homes generally get rehabbed whenever they change owners. But even some long time owners have been in to see me to get projects started.

Not sure that low income housing has really as much of a stigma to it that it once had. Representative Littlefield instead of spending 100s of hours in Concord for $100 annually could have spent that time at a second job and made significantly more; but would have lost his low income housing. So it seems to be much more acceptable across the political spectrum.

As for the builders not willing to construct smaller homes because the money isn't there... they are building garages, decks, and screen porches... which cost far less than a small home.
They just build whatever their customer requests.

Taylor Community isn't inexpensive. So what you save in taxes in Gilford may quickly be eaten up in other costs.
And most 55 and older communities will become low income... incomes for most tend to fall after retirement; hence why costs become a concern. If they weren't a concern, they would live at Taylor Community.

I should have said, builders aren't building small spec homes. Sure, they will build a small custom home for a customer but in many cases that downsized home is going to cost much more than the larger, older home they just sold unless you're lucky enough to already own a plot of land. And those projects are small potatoes, they aren't going to make a dent in the lack of inventory.

[John Mercier]

A spec home is built on the speculation that you may sell it in the future. Since we currently know that any home built will sell... there are some building such.

The builder will also build a basic home... even the ones that I have posted online. But when the builder is building to a customer's wishes, it is the customer choosing the higher end custom options that make the home more expensive.

The home is just the summation of the parts and the skill it takes to put them together. Some of my customers want quality, but basic components. Other demand from me high end solutions that they have seen on the internet.

For instance, I can supply a white vinyl window with a lifetime warranty at any level of efficiency within the spectrum... but many customer choose the wood windows that will not have a lifetime warranty, and may not have the same efficiency, or a variation of the vinyl that increases the cost of the windows.

The wood windows in a new home could be standard sizing, while replacing them in an older home may require higher cost custom sizing.

What we see with new homes is splurging in unusual ways. The builder doesn't really care... unless of course the new units require some unusual means to secure them. In the older homes, landscaping has to be factored in.

The same goes for doors. A six panel fiberglass lifetime will cost less than a glassed unit or one designed to have a wood-look and fall into a trendy category.

[Biggd]

Most boomers like me, that want to downsize, don't want to spend more on a smaller home than the larger one they are selling. So, it really doesn't pay to downsize in today's market unless you are moving to another state where prices are cheaper. If you are younger and in your peak earning years, then trading up to a more expensive home is not an issue.
The OP wants to downsize from home in Gilford to a smaller home in another town in the lakes region to save money. Unless he's selling a waterfront to buy off the water I don't think he's going to save much money and he's already living in one of the better towns around the lake.
I will make this my last post because this thread has gone way off track.

[John Mercier]

It isn't off track.

The market is tight. There really is not much to buy in any price range.
And stick built or manufactured might be the only options for a fair amount of time to come.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Major

Merrimac must have a different demographic than Laconia. I've had experience with Section 8 housing and it's clientele since 1979. For every "nice" family, there are many, many more "not so nice" families. One thing they have in common is that they are allergic to working. Very few, if any, have full time jobs. Almost without exception, when a tenant moves out, the entire unit needs to be remodeled, sometimes down to the studs. Several years ago, one of my sons assisted my dad in cleaning out an unoccupied unit. He could not believe what he saw.
!

I could not agree more. I have had rental property since 1978 and during those years have probably had about 30 section 8 tenants. 2 or 3 may have needed help, and I was glad to see them get it. The rest were in for the free ride, most worked cash jobs so their income did not show, and some even dealt drugs. I reported some tenants to the administrators of the program but they did nothing. More people on welfare is job security for them.

Without fail, none of them had any respect for the property. Annual section 8 inspections required that anything the tenant broke had to be fixed for the apartment to remain qualified, of course repairs were at the landlords expense. One tenant lost her keys so she walked around the house, poked two holes in every screen to access the latch and remove the screen, to see if the windows were unlocked. None were.

The courts are no help. Laconia District Court under a previous head judge was the worst. I have about 20 judgments against former tenants for as much as $8,000. No money will ever be collected.

I turned the last 8 unit building into condos and sold it off. The shortage of low income rental housing is directly related to the laws that favor tenants but in the long run hurt them even more. The politicians will never get it.

[Major]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

The courts are no help. Laconia District Court under a previous head judge was the worst. I have about 20 judgments against former tenants for as much as $8,000. No money will ever be collected.

Judge Carroll is a very nice man. Unfortunately, I can see that he would be of little or no help in dealing with deadbeats. If you ever wanted a snapshot of today's society/culture, spend a morning in the Laconia District Court, and watch the parade of losers, one after another, who cannot live within societal norms. Almost no one works. No one has money for judgments or fines. And the judge, whether it was Judge Carroll or whoever replaced him, are excessively sympathetic to their plight, even the criminals. And that's the problem. Rather than hammering these folks with tough love, we coddle and sympathize. However, heaven forbid you are a productive member of society, there is no such mercy or grace. The full extent of the law will be employed.

[ApS]

A work-free drug-place...

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Major

Judge Carroll is a very nice man. Unfortunately, I can see that he would be of little or no help in dealing with deadbeats. If you ever wanted a snapshot of today's society/culture, spend a morning in the Laconia District Court, and watch the parade of losers, one after another, who cannot live within societal norms. Almost no one works. No one has money for judgments or fines. And the judge, whether it was Judge Carroll or whoever replaced him, are excessively sympathetic to their plight, even the criminals. And that's the problem. Rather than hammering these folks with tough love, we coddle and sympathize. However, heaven forbid you are a productive member of society, there is no such mercy or grace. The full extent of the law will be employed.

You hit the nail on the head. I could not have said it better.

I have spent many mornings in that court and watched the lazy deadbeats get coddled. They get a kiss on the cheek and a pat on the bum and get told to try harder. The judges know most of the defendants by first name but it doesn't change things. There are many "frequent flyers" in Laconia District Court.

Maybe if they revoked driver's licenses for unpaid court judgments it would have some impact. Maybe if they told the defendants you have three months to start making payments on this judgment or you will spend some time in jail it would make a difference. Five days in jail and another 60 days to pay. No action? 30 days in jail and another 60 days to pay. At some point it would make a difference.

Laconia has a good police department but in my opinion, a lot of Laconia's problems stem from a weak court system.

[garysanfran]

If there is no barrier to stop bad behavior, bad behavior will not be stopped.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

You hit the nail on the head. I could not have said it better.

I have spent many mornings in that court and watched the lazy deadbeats get coddled. They get a kiss on the cheek and a pat on the bum and get told to try harder. The judges know most of the defendants by first name but it doesn't change things. There are many "frequent flyers" in Laconia District Court.

Maybe if they revoked driver's licenses for unpaid court judgments it would have some impact. Maybe if they told the defendants you have three months to start making payments on this judgment or you will spend some time in jail it would make a difference. Five days in jail and another 60 days to pay. No action? 30 days in jail and another 60 days to pay. At some point it would make a difference.

Laconia has a good police department but in my opinion, a lot of Laconia's problems stem from a weak court system.

I'll agree that the laws frequently seem to favor the tenants, and judges don't want to force people out into the street. However, fines and jail just make it more difficult to get a job and make any payments. People who lose their driver's license just drive anyway. If you can get an MVR as part of the application, it frequently lists "Driving after Suspension. When you ask, "I got stopped for ignoring a light or stop sign."

My experience was with the Manchester Housing office and courts in Merrimack and Milford, mostly for evictions where I had no problems. In one instance, I even collected back rent in monthly payments. Usually, you just have to figure that as lost money.

[John Mercier]

I don't know that Section 8 is tightening the housing supply.
Laconia has about the same number of residents as 1980, and what at least appears to me without a count to be a pretty broad expansion of housing units since that time.

It is true the city has a homeless problem.
And it cannot be simply stated an issue with drugs - both illegal and legal.
It also, as in many other areas, has too many that put wants before needs.
But from a purely cost vs surrounding services... there are areas in the city easy enough to reach the bypass and shopping in Gilford, or Gunstock if that is your destination.

Just not currently that many smaller homes for sale within the Laconia borders either.

[garysanfran]

When you screen an applicant , on any kind of housing, you are looking for the ability to pay and any behavior problems.

A tenant paying on time, but is a behavior problem, is not good.

A tenant with great behavior, not paying, is not good

Credit reports will give you some aspect of finances, outstanding debt obligations, etc., But not behavior. And not evictions!

Reviewing credit reports on Sect. 8, one should look for financial obligations beyond affordability.. Like a new car purchase for $100k+,etc. Which would show income of "unreported source".

A landlord may give you a false behavior reference to get rid of their problem.

I would ask false questions in doing landlord references like ...
The applicant said they paid $600. I would ask if they could reference the applicant paid $700, and if the landlord gave a positive, I assumed we were talking to a relative.

Eviction records are public record. I owned a company that recorded every eviction record as they were filed. In San Francisco alone, 12,000/year.

So, if an applicant gave a phony landlord reference, we knew they were being evicted, from where and by whom.

Ask your screening company from where they get their data.

Trust not your applicants.

As a result of the above, I have been a very successful landlord.

A desirable neighborhood. A fair rent. Good screening and great relations and support. Is the success key.

[John Mercier]

Doesn't happen just with rentals or Section 8.
I live on a road that had four properties with a fifth just across from one end.

The one right next to me had a contractor that purchased it.
First I would see him in M-F to make purchases... then it started to happen on Saturday - he was getting behind.

One night shots rang out. Seems the contractor had picked up a habit of going out drinking with the crew - wasn't paying attention to business and his wife was threatening to leave. During a round out with the crew, he got talked into the belief that she just need a ''stern'' show of his resolve. He hit her, she shot him. Home sat empty after the mortgage company foreclosed.

The one two doors down was rented. The renter was an independent trucker that started bringing home the truck. One Sunday afternoon... his kid tried to jump the snowbanks on each side of my driveway... hit the mailbox, destroyed the sled and hurt himself. F&G handled the situation. The renter decided to try to make me pay for what he saw as a slight of contacting F&G. Kept setting off the air horns as he came by. The neighbor across the street had enough and contacted the local PD. They met him on his way home. He brought the truck home because he had lost his license for a DWI and was sneaking out in the early morning hoping not to get caught. He came home to the PD that night inebriated.

Neither of these two started out bad people, they just got themselves hooked into a lifestyle that had bad results, and failed to change course.

And over my entire life... I have noticed that Laconia - and by that I mean the people that reside and vote there along with outside influencers - tends to promote bad lifestyle choices.

[Major]

That story has the makings to be a great novel!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Descant]

If I'd had the benefit of all this experience in 1980, I probably wouldn't have bought my first property. The books on the subject make it all seem so easy. Regardless of good advice, I think you have to make some mistakes and learn some lessons on your own.

[BroadHopper]

I witnessed the same scenario in my former neighborhood. Originally a dirt road with small seasonal cottages comprised of blue-collar workers, firemen, and policemen. We would have block parties monthly, rotating from one house to the next. The kids will get together every day, swim, waterski, and board games at night. A great neighborhood full of camaraderie and trust.

Now the cottages are year-round McMansions. Everyone keeps to themselves and occasionally calls law enforcement on each other. Lots of 'keeping up with the Joneses'. Out of Staters certainly are a responsible lot.

[Stilljester]

Originally Posted by bigdog

Looking for peoples thoughts on best town to live at the Big Lake...Thanks in advance, for your feedback

If you haven't yet, I would suggest spending sometime in Wolfeboro. Seems to check all the boxes you mentioned.

[bigdog]

Originally Posted by Stilljester

If you haven't yet, I would suggest spending sometime in Wolfeboro. Seems to check all the boxes you mentioned.

Thanks Stilljester, Wolfeboro is very nice and would consider, however, a little remote from my activities in Laconia, Tilton, and Gilford.

Going to take a close look at 'New Hampton', as it checks all the boxes:
Shopping, Close proximity to both Winnie, N.F.Lake, Laconia, Churches, etc

Unfortunately, inventory in New Hampton is always low and will be a challenge.

[RUGMAN]

Originally Posted by ITD

Yeah, NH doesn't have a view tax, but if you have a view you pay more taxes. Especially if it's of water.

I agree, it may not be called a view tax on your tax bill, but to be on the water with a view, you pay more ( a lot more) i am on the water and the house behind me pays a 1/4 of what I pay, would not have it any other way. The problem I have is I pay for the current value of my house, if I was to sell. If your not planning on selling to get that value, you are stuck.

[pondguy]

Originally Posted by bigdog

Thanks Stilljester, Wolfeboro is very nice and would consider, however, a little remote from my activities in Laconia, Tilton, and Gilford.

Going to take a close look at 'New Hampton', as it checks all the boxes:
Shopping, Close proximity to both Winnie, N.F.Lake, Laconia, Churches, etc

Unfortunately, inventory in New Hampton is always low and will be a challenge.

Just an thought. https://www.bexrealty.com/New-Hampsh...nsfield-Woods/

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by RUGMAN

I agree, it may not be called a view tax on your tax bill, but to be on the water with a view, you pay more ( a lot more) i am on the water and the house behind me pays a 1/4 of what I pay, would not have it any other way. The problem I have is I pay for the current value of my house, if I was to sell. If your not planning on selling to get that value, you are stuck.

As I stated. Plant a bunch of bushes between the house and the waterfront. Once the ''view'' is gone... if the assessment doesn't go down... then it isn't about the ''view''.

Waterfront is assessed more than non-waterfront... it is about the waterfront.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

I witnessed the same scenario in my former neighborhood. Originally a dirt road with small seasonal cottages comprised of blue-collar workers, firemen, and policemen. We would have block parties monthly, rotating from one house to the next. The kids will get together every day, swim, waterski, and board games at night. A great neighborhood full of camaraderie and trust.

Now the cottages are year-round McMansions. Everyone keeps to themselves and occasionally calls law enforcement on each other. Lots of 'keeping up with the Joneses'. Out of Staters certainly are a responsible lot.

Pretty sure that PD was going to need to respond for someone being shot - not sure who called them.

F&G must be notified in an accident involving a snowmobile or OHRV when someone is injured.

The call to the PD for setting off his airhorn again and again every morning in evening... that was just foolishly bad behavior on his part.

These are all still small cottages/farms on a dirt road.
But other than people that don't live on the road using the road (public), it is now pretty quiet.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by bigdog

Thanks Stilljester, Wolfeboro is very nice and would consider, however, a little remote from my activities in Laconia, Tilton, and Gilford.

Going to take a close look at 'New Hampton', as it checks all the boxes:
Shopping, Close proximity to both Winnie, N.F.Lake, Laconia, Churches, etc

Unfortunately, inventory in New Hampton is always low and will be a challenge.

You may want to contact a local realtor just to let them know you are looking for the right opportunity. They will tend to know of properties that are not yet listed in the MLS.

[TheProfessor]

Originally Posted by bigdog

I'm retired and see most of my income going to pay real estate taxes, so this is a serious factor.

My town is better. Blah. Blah. Blah.

The grass is greener someplace else. Sure.

Groton New Hampshire.
The wind farms pay most of the town budget.
You want lower property taxes.
That's it.

The rest is just blowing in the wind.

[John Mercier]

Lots of shopping in and around Groton?
Easy access to the Lake Winnipesuakee?

Even here in Belmont, I wouldn't consider easy access to Lake Winnipesuakee.
The public ramps are in Meredith and Alton.

But the lower taxes come from moving away from any lakefront and seeking a small property... pretty hard to find anywhere with decent access to Lake Winnipesaukee. Owners aren't willing to sell.

[Descant]

"If you ever decide to sell, call me first" said my neighbor. A chance meeting in our adjacent driveways, a few minutes later, a handshake and sold.
Real estate agents and flippers routinely farm areas looking to buy houses that are "not on the market". low percentages, but it works. I often get mail offers to buy non-owner occupied properties.
Find a neighborhood you like and check the tax cards to see which properties are not owner occupied, or were bought a long long time ago. Even owner occupied, you can offer something for a right of first refusal. Neighbors talk to neighbors and something else in the area might pop up. Waiting for the perfect house to come onto MLS may never bear fruit.

[Cobalt 12]

Originally Posted by bigdog

Thanks Stilljester, Wolfeboro is very nice and would consider, however, a little remote from my activities in Laconia, Tilton, and Gilford.

Going to take a close look at 'New Hampton', as it checks all the boxes:
Shopping, Close proximity to both Winnie, N.F.Lake, Laconia, Churches, etc

Unfortunately, inventory in New Hampton is always low and will be a challenge.

Lived there for 30 years. Squam lake 19 Minutes boat is in water and truck is parked..

Newfound lake 19 Minutes boat is in the water and truck is parked.

Winni ( Meredith launch ) 25 Minutes boat is in the water and truck is parked. All depends on traffic.

Winnisquam 40 Minutes boat is in the water and Truck is parked.

Close to Everything yet Far enough away to ENJOY LIFE. However things have gone thru the roof property wise in New Hampton. More and More out of Staters have and were and are moving to New Hampton. It used to really be that small town feel that everyone was looking for. Now EVERYONE has found it.

[Major]

I second New Hampton. It is a very nice, well run town. Plus, it's namesake school is my alma mater!

[ApS]

Originally Posted by bigdog

Thanks Stilljester, Wolfeboro is very nice and would consider, however, a little remote from my activities in Laconia, Tilton, and Gilford.

Going to take a close look at 'New Hampton', as it checks all the boxes:
Shopping, Close proximity to both Winnie, N.F.Lake, Laconia, Churches, etc

Unfortunately, inventory in New Hampton is always low and will be a challenge.

Not being familiar with that other side of the world, I looked up New Hampton. Google sent me to Hampton, NH, which had good marks, but something seemed amiss. Trying again, I got New Hampton and here is their description:

"New Hampton is a town in New Hampshire with a population of 2,572. New Hampton is in Belknap County. Living in New Hampton offers residents a rural feel and most residents own their homes. Many young professionals live in New Hampton and residents tend to lean conservative. The public schools in New Hampton are above average."

[Major]

Originally Posted by ApS

Many young professionals live in New Hampton and residents tend to lean conservative.

No wonder why I like New Hampton so much!

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Major

I second New Hampton. It is a very nice, well run town. Plus, it's namesake school is my alma mater!

I thought you went to Laconia?

[Major]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

I thought you went to Laconia?

For freshman year. Went to NHS Sophomore to Senior years.