Biggest recorded bass caught???

[rickstr66]

undefinedundefinedDoes anyone know of any record of the biggest Largemouth and Smallmouth caught in the lake? I hear of 8lb Largemouth and 6lb smallmouth caught just about every year.

[glennsteely]

I have caught several in the upper five pound range in my years fishing the lake, I seem to do best in the spring, but in august I fished with some one from RI who was up there to fish a Classic and did well also, fishing the weed beds. The largest bigmouth I have ever caught on the lake tipped the scales at about 4 pounds (3lbs 15oz) at weirs beach docks, by boat, in early summer, casting under the docks with a top water popper, when The Mount was out......That is not to say there isnt bigger fish around, and I dont know the records for the lake, this is just my say on the matter and believe me, I am no expert......BUT I LOVE TO FISH !!!!!!

[Grant]

I don't know about Winnipesaukee in particular, but the NH state records for smallmout and largemouth are as follows:

Largemouth Bass 25.80" 10 lbs. 8 oz. Lake Potanipo Brookline 5/1967 G. Bullpitt NH

Smallmouth Bass 23.25" 7 lbs. 14.5 oz. Goose Pond Canaan 8/1970 Francis H. Lord MA

The complete list can be found at:

http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/Fish...ecord_fish.htm

Check out the record white perch caught in Winni -- over 17 inches and a few ounces shy of four pounds!

I wonder what the record rock bass is...

[glennsteely]

0 lbs. 0 oz.

[Tyler]

about 15 years ago before New Hampshire Fish and Game opened up Lake Winnipesaukee to virtually unlimited bass tournaments, 5 and 6 pound smallmouth bass were very common. Today bass tournament anglers get excited when they weighin 3 pound smallie. Wonder what another 15 years will do to this bass fishery?

[glennsteely]

......but in august......we caught a few in the 4 plus range, all in the same cove, all in the same morning.....but I wont tell you where........hahaha

[Grant]

Bass tournaments are the worst thing to happen to the fishery -- ever. Of course, they might be great for the local economy, and the bass anglers who participate will talk about very low mortality rates, etc., etc., etc., but the impact is undeniable. And, after weigh-in, the fish are typically dumped where the weigh-in occurs -- which is usually at a busy marina, where the water quality is less than ideal. Bottom line: Those fish don't migrate back to their original habitat.

And, yes, I recall catching many more and many much larger bass years ago. And although I do see a good number of large fish while diving these days, I can't imagine what might've been seen beneath the surface 30 years ago!

I'm not saying that bass tourneys should be banned, but it seems that they've gone WAY overboard with the number -- far exceeding what the lake can reasonably handle.

[rickstr66]

All I asked was about fish size and now its turned into a bass fisherman bash. I fished the lake 15 years ago..... 5 and 6 pounders were not "very common". More common? Sure but not very common. People constantly over estimate a fishes size. A 4lb smallie is a huge fish. I constantly see recreational fisherman catch fish and say "WOW its about 6 pounds. When I look at the fish...... its more like 4. Im a bassfisherman. Been doing it for 20+ years. I even over estimate at times.
I agree there are a lot of tournaments on the lake.but Grant you make a few mistakes in your post. I will address what I think is abig misconception. Infisherman magazine along with a major University(dont recall ) did a study. The caught bass of all different sizes, put transmitters in them, and drove them around the lake, realeassing them all over different locations in the lake but never near where it was caught. 95% returned to the area where it was caught, 3 percent established a new "home range" and 2% died. If what you say were true...... Launch point for tournaments would be the best spots on the lake to fish for bass..... trust me thats not the case. Id guess that 90% of all bass tournaments on the lake are held at launch areas that are considered "open areas" with direct access to deep water. Ames farm is by far the most popular one. Merideth neck and Center harbor are 2 more.... all direct access to deep water. The larger tournaments....30+ boats ALWAYS transport their fish out to deeper water.
The statement that you see big fish now but imagin what you might have seen 30 years ago can apply to everything in life. I assume you drive a car.... imagin how many more deer, squirrels, skunks, wildlife et al there would be if cars didnt exsist....... silly statement right?? So was yours. Bass fishing has become popular as has the automobile. Its natural progression that fewer animals exsist because of cars and that fewer bass exsist because fishing is more popular. Bass fisherman pay a steep liscence fee. what do we get for it????? Little or nothing. Bass are a reproductive fish. They spawn and replace themselves..... On the other hand almost all of the cold water species are a "put and take" fishery... That is they have to be stocked because they dont reproduce in our waters. 99% of a warm water fishing liscence goes to support a fishey that cant support itself. Bass arnt stocked in northern ststes because they do so well on their own. Southern states do stock bass. If Bass were truly in trouble in Winni ..... Fish and Game would do something about it. They do creel censuses.... the average fish caught in a tournament today id BIGGER then the average fish caught in a tournament 5,10 years ago. Thats a fact. You can look it up at Fish and Game.

[Grant]

Don't get me wrong -- I'm not bashing bass fisherman in general. I can't. Here's why:

I am a bass fisherman. Been fishing Winnipesaukee for most of my 43 years (at least since I could hold a rod). I also do a lot of fishing elsewhere. Each year, I purchase full-season licenses in both NH and PA. Nearly everyone in my family fishes the Lake as well.

My one first cousin, same age, who I spent many summers on the Lake with, spent a number of years as a professional bass fisherman -- did the tours, had sponsors, towed his boat all over the country, appeared on ESPN, etc. And I've discussed all this with him. He also said that many bass tend to return to their home habitat. But I'm still skeptical. I also don't buy the mortality rate argument. It must be higher for tournament catches.

I only take issue with the inordinate number of bass tournaments on the Lake. To say that the number and frequency of bass tournaments has not impacted the Winnipesaukee fishery is pure nonsense.

But, to return to the original thread topic, I've only caught two smallies in the five-pound range. Some day I will scan a picture of the fish and post. And I've never caught a largemouth in Winnipesaukee, although I found a great place to catch them while diving last August. There is a stuffed smallie in the Libby Museum that was caught in the early/mid 1980s in Winter Harbor that weighs 6-8 pounds. Absolutely huge. I've seen some really nice fish in various parts of the Lake while diving.

We see a lot more largemouths down here in the warmer waters of PA. Here's a sample:

[rickstr66]

Fat Jack, 2% is not a big number at all. If the study consisted of 100 bass. 98 were released and survived. Only 2 died.In natural selection 1-2% of a species dies on a regular basis. The study was conducted in a bass boat with bass fisherman assisting. They were caught in conventional manner, using a rod and artificial lures.The study was made to mimic a tournament situation. Livewell temprature was not manipulated. The scientists- students were there to record the data and to surgically place the transmitters in the fish..... thats right, surgery was preformed on each and every fish and still only 2% died. Jack just so you know. The limit on black bass is 5. That is each and every fisherman is allowed to take home(that means remove from the lake never to return again, 100% mortality rate) 5 bass per day. What do you think the fishery would be like if we did that?? The bass is a resource to us. We want it to be there in the future. We try and do the best we can to ensure that. new techniques and technology is constantly being introduced to ensure better survival. Believe it or not ... we care about the fish more then you do. Water quality on Winni is fine to support the fish. It has nothing to do with a so called decline in the fishery. Go to a state like Tenn. The water in the lakes down there looks like a cup of coffee with cream yet 5,6 and 7 pound smallies are common. But since you brought up water quality I will address that. Im not dissagreeing with you that water quality is changing. I ,however believe that comes from YOU the homeowner on the lake and not bass tournaments. The more the lake is developed the more its going to change. If you want a pristine, perfect lake, bull doze your house and plant trees and have everyone else on the lake do the same.
The reason why there were more bigger fish back 30years ago(btw I had said 15 in reply to the other persons post, not 30) is that hardly anyone targeted them. Fishing is growing in popularity. Whats so wrong with that. Largemouth have been there since the early 1900's Fisherman are getting better at what they do and are learning how to catch them. You the landowner are making them more suseptable to being caught by adding docks and boathouses to the lake. largemouth seek out this type of cover to ambush prey along with weedbeds. they are easier caught from boat docks then weeds. Take out your docks... the largemouth will seem to dissapear. I believe the big smallies are still there, but with all the increase in development and boat traffic, they have adapted and moved to deeper water, as deep as 50'.
Is fishing harmful to a fishery? Yes. Is your house, your car your boat and your mere presence on the lake? Yes. So lets all go away and let the bass live in peace?? they are a resource there for us to use.
Jack you speak with VERY LITTLE knowledge. Assuming too much and comming to the tabel with no facts.

[Tyler]

Rickstr, please provide either the text and or links to your claims which I am interested in learning more about from your recent post's. In particular I am interested in those that I have listed below. Thanks.

1. "In natural selection 1-2% of a species dies on a regular basis."

2. "Water quality on Winni is fine to support the fish."

3. "Go to a state like Tenn. The water in the lakes down there looks like a cup of coffee with cream yet 5,6 and 7 pound smallies are common."

4. "Largemouth have been there since the early 1900's." Question - I presume you meant in Winnipesaukee?

5. "Infisherman magazine along with a major University(dont recall ) did a study."

6. "Its natural progression that fewer animals exsist because of cars and that fewer bass exsist because fishing is more popular."

7. "On the other hand almost all of the cold water species are a "put and take" fishery... That is they have to be stocked because they dont reproduce in our waters." My Question - Where do the Landlock Salmon and Lake Trout go to spawn if they don't reproduce in the lake?

8. "the average fish caught in a tournament today id BIGGER then the average fish caught in a tournament 5,10 years ago. Thats a fact."

[b8tcaster]

Just curious. What would you consider to be an acceptable number of bass tournaments allowed on the lake?

[Tyler]

Regarding the In-Fisherman/University study that was mentioned by rickstr, that was conducted on a small body of water. The following should clear up this issue regarding lakes the size of Winnipesaukee.

Few bass do make it home.
That's the conclusion reached by Texas Tech University associate professor Gene Wilde after an in-depth study of what happens to tournament-caught bass.
Wilde, whose study was published in the July issue of Fisheries magazine, compiled data from a number of studies using electronic transponders and external tags to track movement of the bass.
After crunching the numbers, Wilde concluded that few bass caught in tournaments make it home after their release at a single weigh-in site. In fact, many don't get very far from the release site.
"They pile up," Wilde said in a phone interview from his office.
On average, 51 percent of the largemouth bass studied didn't get more than a mile away from the release site. Smallmouths were a little better at dispersing. Twenty-six percent remained within a mile of the release site.
The percentage of fish that eventually made it back to where they originally were caught was low. Just 14 percent of largemouth bass returned to their capture site, while 32 percent of smallmouths made it home.
Research has shown that bass navigate using visual clues. Without familiar landmarks - or would that be watermarks? - the bass are simply lost.
It's not like the fish are despondent. They simply go on about their business, which consists mainly of eating, avoiding predators and, at certain times, spawning.
Those activities might not be easy. A high concentration of bass might cause a forage shortage. If spawning habitat is poor in the area, the fish could have difficulty reproducing. They also are more vulnerable to fishermen.
The tendency of bass not to wander from release sites is not news to tournament bass anglers.
In fact, it's not uncommon in the days leading up to tournaments for fishermen to transplant bass to their favorite holes. The assumption - a good one, we now know - is those fish will be there come tournament day.
A little math can show the potential impact of moving large numbers of fish to a certain release area.
Say Smith Mountain Lake hosts a dozen major bass tournaments a year, which is not an unreasonable estimation. Figure the tournaments draw an average of 70 boats. Maybe 35 of two-angler crews will catch enough bass - let's say an average of five per boat - to bother weighing in their fish. Over the course of a year, that's 2,100 displaced bass. That figure doesn't include fish not weighed in, but rather planted by anglers in their favorite holes.
Additionally, dozens of smaller tournaments displace thousands more bass.
Considering the numbers of bass in large impoundment such as Smith Mountain Lake, the impact might not be huge. If it were, no tournament angler would bother fishing outside a mile from Waterwheel Marine.
It's still significant.
Possible solutions include the unreasonable idea of putting an end to tournament fishing and the impractical answer of weighing the fish immediately then release them at the catch site.
Officials at some tournaments are taking another approach, using release boats. Weighed fish are placed a big tank on a boat, then carted around the lake to a number of release sites. It doesn't get the bass back home, but it spreads them out.
The idea is not without its challenges. Someone has to pay for the boat and livewell equipment. How many already stressed bass would not survive more time in captivity? Who would decide at which tournaments the boats would be used?
Who would operate the release boat? It couldn't be anyone with ties to the anglers.
Fisheries agencies haven't gotten into the issue so far and, for a number of reasons, there's no reason to expect that to change.
Instead, the task of finding a solution to this problem - and whether you're a tournament angler or a weekend fisherman, it is a problem - ultimately rests with tournament anglers and organizers.
They should jump on it. After all, they have the most at stake.

If you read this study and digest the information objectively and as it pertains to Lake Winnipesaukee I am curious, what do you think the tournament anglers on Winnipesaukee and or NHF&G should do to correct this situation? What will be your involvement as a tournament angler?

[rickstr66]

Tyler, Im not going to go look for all this information just to satisfy you. I know they are the facts. I have read them before. I have no reason to lie and make them up. If you think about it..... its really common sense. Think about it. How many people die on a given day , nevermind animals. Winni is one of the cleanest and clearest bodies of water in New England. I have been on many more then you in my travels fishing tournaments. They number in the 100s. If in fact water quality is declining (im not doubting it) its because of the people who live on the lake, not bass fisherman, but its still plent clean to support a fishery.
I have fished several lakes in Tenn. The AVERAGE smallie caught down there is 4lbs Many 5.6 and 7's are caught each year. I have seen the water, it does look like coffee.
Yes Largemouth have been in Winni since the early 1900's and smallies since the late 1800's
I read about the study in an Infisherman magazine in the late 90's. It was all the talk of the bass fishing world when it came out. I wouldnt know where to find that study now but it was published and I am reporting the facts. I have no need to lie.
On Natural progression ... are you really going to question the fact that there are lees animals alive today because of cars and trucks(natural progression od society)? How many dead squirrels, skunks, birds and deer do you see along the roads from spring through fall? They would all still be alive if there were no cars and last time I checked, they wernt run over by a bass boat.
Call fish and Game. Trout and salmon dont spawn in our waters, they have to be stocked. the ph of the waters here cant support a spawn, it hasnt in 50 years or more.The fish simply dont spawn. They will attempt to but they will fail. The trout and salmon you catch are hatched in a hatchery and raised to fingerling size and larger then released. Thats common knowledge in the fishing community. You are just showing how much you truly know about fishing and fish stocks if you dont know that. Call fish and Game, request the creel census' for bass on Lake Winni in the last 10 years. Fish and Game report them and THEY say the fishery is fine, in fact they say its flourishing. If your sooooooooooo concerned YOU go look it up. I know these facts.

[Tyler]

rickstr, I did contact F&G regarding fish weights, here are the facts. Not increasing over the last 10 years at all. If anything a slight decline. Info only available from F&G for the 6 years of 1996 thru 2001.

Smallmouth average size:
1996 - 2.01
1997 - 1.77
1998 - 1.74
1999 - 1.87
2000 - 1.92
2001 - 1.96
Summary: Three years of decline, three years of increase, not the trend you indicated.

Largemouth average size:
1996 - 2.14
1997 - 2.30
1998 - 1.99
1999 - 2.13
2000 - 2.27
2001 - 2.23
Summary: Data all over the lot. not the increase in size you indicated.

[rickstr66]

Jack, I assume you live on the lake and I assume you own a boat. You say you want to limit tournaments... ok fine but at the same time limit the amount of times a home owner can use their boat. If for arguments sake you can only have 2 tournaments per weekend with a max. of 50 boats, then a max of 50 recreational boats can only be on the lake per weekend. You will be issued a permit that allows you to use your boat once a month between the hours of 12 noon and 5 pm... You agree?? Because we all know boat pollution is ruining the lake. Jack I just state facts. Of course fishing harms a fishery. Thats common sense. If your catching fish its inevetable (sp) that fish will die. But Jack, those fish are there for all of us. You never did answer my question about taking the 5 fish home. Thats what we are allowed to do. How good of a fishery would any lake be if we did that, even if you limited it to 2 tournaments per weekend with 5o boats total.... thats 250 dead fish in peoples freezer at the end of a weekend. Are we perfect? no but we do care about our resorce. About livwells.... who do you think invented them??? A bass fisherman. He did so , so we wouldnt have to kill our catch to enjoy our sport. My livewell is run constatnly from the moment a fish is put in it till the time they are taken out at the end of the day. Almost all bass boats are equiped with livewell timers that turn them on and off in 2,4,6,8, or 10 minute intervals. Do you change the water in a fishtank ever? is the temp. always the same? the chemisty always the same when you do it?? NO but the fish survive and grow and flourish in the tank dont they? Sounds like you have owned a fish tank in the past. What gives you the right to purchase fish that were taken from their home habitat , just so you can watch them swim in your living room. I assume if you did own a tank, some of those fish died...... SHAME ON YOU!!!! You better give up your car too cause its pollution is killing animals left and right. ****. You call all my facts lies and all your lies facts.

[JohnNH]

The original post asked about the size of Largemouth & Smallmouth that had been caught on Winnipesaukee this past year. The best place to get this information is at the NH Fish & Game Department. If you want to email them and ask for the largest fish reported, you can reach them at fish@wildlife.state.nh.us

Our organization (North East Bass Association of New Hampshire) held 2 events on the lake this year. 1 in August and 1 in September. The largest fish we reported are: Smallmouth = 4.27Lbs. and Largemeouth = 6.96Lbs.
Nice fish by anyone’s standards.

Now lets spend some energy on attempting to set the record straight for those who think the tournaments are the total cause of what they perceive as the decline in the Bass population.

I will speak only for the North East Bass Association of New Hampshire.
I am the President of this association where we maintain a membership of approximately 250. We are the largest non-profit bass fishing organization in the state. In 2003 we held 7 events. 2 on Winnipesaukee, 1 on Ossipee, 1 on Winnisquam, 1 on the Connecticut River, 1 at Moore Dam Reservoir and the last event was on Squam. The trail we run consisted of an average of 45 boats.

How do we run our events?
Start time is 7AM - no exceptions.
Finish time is 3PM

Boats are inspected:
Live wells must be operational.
Safety equipment must meet state and coast guard specifications.
Life vests must be worn when the gas motor is operating.
Kill switch must be operational.

At the beginning of each event, all participants receive a briefing which covers the times of the event (start-stop), mandatory observance of the state regulations re; the 150' rule, be polite to other boaters and land owners and respect their rights.

The tournaments we run on Winnipesaukee are headquartered at Ames Farm Inn, Gilford. When the boats are launched between 5:30Am and 6:30AM, they are not allowed to start their gas motor (our attempt to reduce noise). At approximately 6:45AM all boats start their outboards and idle (less than 6mph out to the markers near Diamond Island where they are staged for start (there is normally a Marine Patrol boat present at this time). At start, the boats leave the area at headway speed until they have reached the 150 distances and then they can go on plane. This process is repeated 1 at a time until all boats have left. In the event that a boat breaks this rule - they are disqualified.
Here is a question and you are all on the lake a great deal:
Do pleasure boats; ski craft and jet ski's start out into the lake with this level of safety observed. The answer is only the responsible drivers.

Now let's go to the daily activity of fishing:
Lot's of folks think that all bass boats do is race around the lake all day long.
That couldn't be further from the truth. When conditions permit and typically only in the early part of the day, we run on plane to our 1st spot to fish. All the boats are then using their electric trolling motor to move the boat along in a somewhat stealth mode. This is how a majority of the day is spent. Speaking for myself, I probably use the outboard to move 6 or 8 times in a day.

Live well systems:
The boats I have run (same as most on the water) had twin 18-gallon live wells. These well are capable of supporting a daily bag limit of fish. Most of us keep our live wells on constant and recirculate the water all day long. The pumps on my live wells (4 pumps) are all 500 gallons per hour pumps. This means that the live wells completely exchange the water 27.77 times per hour. This method of fish management is re-enforced by our tournament rule that imposes a 1/4-pound penalty for any fish that die.

Release of fish:
One would think from the comments in an early post in this thread that tournament angler’s just toss their fish back in at the shore at the end of the event. "WRONG"

At the end of the day, we set up three (3) 100 gallon tubs that are filled with fresh water from the lake and treated with a product called slyme which protects the fish's slyme coat (note; this product is non toxic and approved by NHF&G as well as the Federal Government). The fish must be brought up to the weigh in tanks in large bags that are filled with fresh water. After the fish are brought up to the scales and weighed, they are placed in a separate tank, which we refer to as the hospital tank where they are monitored for initial-delayed mortality. The fish are cycled out of this tank at a rate of approximately 20 fish every 10 minutes and placed in live wells (no more than 8 at a time and transported back out to deep water (I can't reveal the location, but it's at least 1/4 mile from Ames in several directions).

I would like to invite anyone to visit our events this coming year and witness for yourselves the professionalism and efforts that Bass anglers take to preserve the fishery.

Note: Anyone interested in the real statistics of the health of the fishery should contact Steve Perry, Chief of Inland Fisheries, and NH Fish & Game Department. Ask him for the statistics on the quantity and quality of the fish in Winnipesaukee. The records are consistently reporting an increase in both quality and size in the lake.

By the way, I haven't bashed anyone and must add that some of the information in this thread includes text that would lead some to believe that 4 and 5 pound bass caught in tournament was once routine - NOT TRUE. I have been fishing tournaments since the 70's and fishing in general for about 50 years. Smallmouth in that size class are rare trophies. Some people will always say the sky is falling.

My important message to all is:
1) Get the facts from NHF&G
2) Our organization and many others are doing more for the fishery than any other groups which unfortunately include state and federal agencies.
3) Take me up on my invitation to attend an event in 2005 and see for yourself.

Regards and Merry Christmas to all
God Bless America

JohnNH
John Cowan
President
North East Bass Association of New Hampshire

[Grant]

Excellent and very informative post.

Thanks for the education!

[rickstr66]

I was the original poster. I was hoping to get some fish stories of people catching big fish from Winni. I didnt think it would turn into a bash. From my observations in the past, Fat Jack does a lot of that.As you know Mass Bass handles their tournaments in the same manner as you. My club does so also. Its funny that when somoeone posts something thats simply not true, and we call them on it, they never admit it or say sorry. They just skip over that.Its funny. Im not an electrician. I know very lilttle about it. I would never go up to one and say..... You're wiring that wrong. Typical. Merry Xmas and Happy New Year to you too John.

[Tyler]

John/nh, Please show me where you read the following:

"this thread includes text that would lead some to believe that 4 and 5 pound bass caught in tournament was once routine - NOT TRUE."

In what thread was that posted, I must have missed it.

Happy Holidays, and thanks for running a first class tournament group.

[Matinnh]

Is there a new hybrid bass in Winnipesaukee known as a Bigmouth?
While rewiewing the Forum I noticed a contributor referred to a Bigmouth Bass. That's a new one to me.

[b8tcaster]

If your idea of teaching family values to your kids includes teaching them to be so narrowminded and insulting to such a large group of people, who are for the most part very nice people, then I feel very sorry for your kids. Maybe you might want to consider doing a little research into what is involved in belonging to most of the bass organizations that I have belonged to. Its not all about fast boats and who is a better fisherman.Why dont you attend an event and talk with some of these people. Maybe you will hear about things such as Camp Carefree, casting kids, PVA events, Camp sunshine, or many other conservation and youth oriented activites that most of these people participate in. I would like to personally invite you or any one that is interested to join me in a tournament on the lake and also to some of the other activites to really see what it is all about. You might just come away from it with a little better understanding of what most bassfishermen are like

[rickstr66]

Tyler, Bottom line is that the fishery is not in a decline like you and Jack said. Its stable. You are going to get slight variances in creel censuses like fish and game got . If you leave out 1996, the numbers for 97 and 98 are just about identicle and then they increase the next 3 years. It looks to me that the largemouth fishery is getting better as well. That tells me the lake is healthy as a fishery. Tyler did you ask about the cold water fishery and it being a put and take fishery and if the salmon and trout spawn in Winni? Tyler im going to go through all of my Infisherman Mags. after the holidays. They are in my desk at work. I will find the article and get back to you.

****

[Tyler]

"I know they are the facts. I have read them" does not cut it with me.

Smallmouth - 3 years of decrease, 3 years of increase. Not exactly the steady increase in size over the last 10 years as previously reported.

Largemouth - no trend either way for the 6 years reported, weights look stable at best.

Ricky, would you be so kind and ask F&G for the data for the years 2002, 2003, and 2004 if they have had a chance to compile it yet? That would be beneficial in putting this issue to bed.

"Few Bass Do Make It Home", that one is a no brainer per the Texas Tech. study.

I really don't care if or where the cold water species spawn or don't spawn, if you want to track that one down and post data or links to data go for it, might be interesting to some on this site. Have a good Holiday, headed for some warm weather for a few weeks.

[JohnNH]

Tyler

Post #5 in this thread ( posted by you):
about 15 years ago before New Hampshire Fish and Game opened up Lake Winnipesaukee to virtually unlimited bass tournaments, 5 and 6 pound smallmouth bass were very common. Today bass tournament anglers get excited when they weighin 3 pound smallie. Wonder what another 15 years will do to this bass fishery?

In my post I said 4 & 5lb so I was 1 Lb under your comment.

By the way, you also mentioned that NHF&G opened up the lake to tournaments about 15 years ago. Please note;There have been tournaments on the lake dating back to the 70's. NHF&G decided to start requiring permits in the 93 // 94 time frame.

I have a couple of questions for you:
1) Are you a Bass fisherman?
2) Have you ever fished a tournament?

Additional note: As I mentioned, I have been fishing for about 50 years, and to date I have caught less than a dozen smallmouth over 5 Lbs. This class of smallmouth is definately a trophy in anyones book.

Regards,
JohnNH

[Tyler]

That was not what I was implying, that tournament fishermen were weighing these weight fish 15 years ago, sorry you misunderstood my post.

Let me correct you again, I posted the following in that same #5 post, "about 15 years ago before New Hampshire Fish and Game opened up Lake Winnipesaukee to virtually unlimited bass tournaments". "virtually unlimited" you somehow missed. I understand how long tournaments have been allowed on the lake.

I am a bass fisherman and I do fish a tournament on ocasion, try to limit it to one or two a year.

Question for you, when did you start fishing the NH lakes like Lake Winnipesaukee, Squam, just to name a couple?

[b8tcaster]

I too have fished the lake for quiet a few years and it does seem to me that the availabilty of 3 pound and larger fish has declined. No facts to back this up but I believe that the really big fish have declined. I will also say that the fishery is as healthy as ever with the average size remaining constant even under the increased pressure. I think Tyler made an important point though that tournament organizations and anglers need to take the point and find ways to reduce the impact that this sport has on our fisheries seeing as we have the most to lose.I personally would support ideas to reduce the quantity of tournaments on New Hampshire waters because it seems to me that with so many more tournaments these days the participation at each event has declined. Maybe if all interested parties were to get together and come up with a plan we would all be better off. Sure would be nice to see anglers, property owners, fish and game, tournament organizations, Lake associations, etc join forces so that we all can enjoy the resource together.

Merry Christmas to you all

[Grant]

I second b8caster's assessment. The number of 3+ pounders has declined remarkably -- just within the last 15-20 years. We would routinely catch a good number of 2-3 pounders off our dock, with more and better fish found at regular spots with better structure. In the past ten years especially, the numbers and frequency of such catches has bottomed out. And you'll fiind another very good and reliable endorsement of this observation from Harold Lyons in his excellent book, "Angling in the Smile of the Great Spirit." I believe he reads this forum, so I'd be interested in hearing his comments.

At any rate -- there are a lot of nice bass in the Lake, and on a cold Christmas afternoon here in Pennsyltuckey, my thoughts drift northward, and I can't wait to spend a warm summer twilight casting a jitterbug toward the #59 buoy...

Merry Christmas!

[b8tcaster]

Hello Grant. I am curious if similar topics arise in Pennsylvania and what actions have been taken by interest groups there to help the situation. I also wish we had some of those big stripers up here like at Raystone

Best regards
Steve

[SAMIAM]

Just wondering why an 18' "fishing" boat needs a 250 hp motor.What can you catch trolling at 70mph?

[rickstr66]

Samiam, 18' bassboats do not have 250 hp moters. 20' do though. I have a 19' with a 150 hp motor. The main reason to have such a motor is..... time. Our tournaments are limited to an 8 hour day. When fishing lakes the size of Winni, Champlain, Hudson river or Lake Erie and Ontario you need the bigger motors to get you from spot to spot on the lake in a timely manner. I dont know of anyone who has ever caught a fish going 60mph.
Try thinking of it like a car. Your car can probably go 100mph. Do you ever go that fast? So why have it there? Im no motor expert but it probably has something to do with tourque and lower speed power. If a car engine was smaller and only capable of going say...... 70mph im guessing your take off speed and tourque would suffer.
Besides those reasons.... This is a free country. We can do what we like as long as its within the law. God Bless America!!!!!

[glennsteely]

since I am the one who said it. Well, lets dig into this a little. Websters dictionary defines the word BIG as LARGE so I guess the two words are interchangeable, and anyone who knows anything about bass fishing has heard or used that nickname for the LARGEMOUTH BASS before, I am sure.....Another interesting fact....the same Websters dictionary defines the word BIGMOUTH as, and I quote: "big'mouth' n. (slang) a person who talks too much, esp. in an opinionated way." end quote. Now to answer your question with a question.....Do you live.....IN.......the lake? If you do, I guess you answered your own curious, but extremely sarcastic question.........Glenn

[Grant]

b8caster --

I have to plead ignorance with regard to any issues re: bass tourneys here in Pennsylvania. It's a different situation -- a big state, but not nearly as much good bass water (lake, anyway). Most of the tourneys (at least in this end - eastern) in the state are on the rivers (Delaware River has a lot of bass -- and even has shad all the way up to Trenton) or on the many man-made lakes (such as Raystown, that you mentioned) -- most notably Wallenpaupack to the north. Other than those, the "local" bass tournaments are mostly out of state -- NY, MD, from what I read. Pennsylvania is much more noted for its trout waters, whitetail hunting, and substantial black bear population. I've done some bass fishing down here on various rivers and ponds, but tend to do more trout fishing in PA and bass fishing in NH.

[b8tcaster]

Samiam, those big motors are so we can get outa your way fast when you decide to throw a big wake at us as you stated in a previous post....lmao

[JohnNH]

Several posts in this chain had asked some questions that are in need of answers:

1) Big Mouth is what many anglers will call a Largemouth. Many anglers also reference the Largemouth as Green fish and Smallmouth as Brown fish.

2) 250 HP on a small boat:

The manufacturers must abide by regulations and in general this is the options available on boats:

18 & 19 feet = 150 to 175 hp and in a few cases they can go to 200 HP

20 to 21 feet = 150 to 225 HP

21 & 22 feet (that’s as big as the Bass Boats get for now) = 150HP to 250 HP and a few of the large models have an option for a 300 HP.

3) Creel information that was posted and showing a decline in size is based on an average. These numbers fluctuate due to the time of year, quantity of fish allowed and quantity of anglers in any event.

When these calculations are made, the average is taken as follows:
Total smallmouth / number of anglers = average size. Let's expand that by the fact that tournament angling is increasing in population and the number of anglers competing today is up by nearly 35% compared to 5 years ago.
In any event there will be anglers that didn't catch their limits. When you divide the total weight by the number of participants the average will actually go down and this is due to the number of anglers in the even whcih increases the number of anglers that didn't get their limit.

I have been responsible for compiling these reports for fish & game for about 9 years for our organization and I consider myself to be fairly well versed in the data structure.

If you look at the tournament information from several of the laarger groups: NEBA of NH, NH Bass Federation & MA Bass Federation, you will seee that 10 years ago the top teams had between 17 and 21 lbs at the top of the leader board. Today you need close to 20 lbs to place in the top 10 and 22 or 24 lb.s to win. To me this is a clear indication that the large fish are still there as well as the anlgers skills have impoved. ( you do the math = 8 fish per boat and divide that in 18 lb.s & then into 22 or 24 lbs. = nice average isn't it?).

There is another section of the report that may be more important. The report asks for the largest smallmouth & larges largemouth. These numbers will show the averages in large fish over the years.

Another item that needs to be added to the fish size calculations is due to years where there was poor spawn. You may ask what contributes to poor spawn and what does that have to do with average fish size.

Poor spawn can come form a variety of issues:
High Water
Low water
Late ice out
landscape modifications in primary spawn areas
heavy boat traffic; especially from jet ski's in shallow areas that churn up the beds with the water force from the jet drives.


I would like to ask all that feel that the Bass fisherman (tournament anglers) are causing the imaginary decline in bass population a question.

I believe your all fairly clear that we all enjoy the sport or we wouldn't do it. With that in mind, why would we intentionally cause harm to the fishing if it was clearly going to stop us from enjoying the sport.

Here's something to ponder:

Bass Tournament anglers have been practicing catch & release for many years. This means that we put all the fish back into the lake (alive). After a period of time there will be so many fish that the average angler will catch many smaller fish and fewer large fish due to the quantity of fish available (I have spots on the lake that a certain times we can catch 40 to 50 smallmouth with no effort at all and most of them are in the 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 lb range (no it's not during spawn)). Now please don't take this as an insult: The big fish are still around, but we all have to improve our skill levels to find them. In our circle of competitors there is about 15% or less of the competitors that will almost always find the big fish. Why? = They are excellent at finding the fish, figuring out what the fish want to eat, as well as developing a pattern by which they are more successful at catching them.

Last idea:

Perhaps we could set up a meeting place where we could have representation from Fish & Game, a few of the large Bass clubs, and members from the general public (including members of this site), in attendance. An open forum like that could be educational.


If you’re interested, perhaps a few of us could work on the logistics of setting this up.

Regards to all,

John/NH

[rickstr66]

John, Great post. Very well thought out and explained.

[SAMIAM]

Just like to rile you guys up,b8caster.....don't take it to heart.I promise ,if I see you,i'll go back to headway speed.

[JohnNH]

Samiam, If you stop leaving big boat wakes, it will have an impact on the economy. As many of us get older, those times we hit a big wake and undure a less than comfortable landing when we slam into the next wave, we need to visit our doctors to straighten out the old spine. Less wakes = less $$$ in the doctors pocket - and so on.

If we can get everyone to stay on plane = less wakes. It's those big water displacment hulls that leave a wake at any speed and a mountain of water for everyone to deal with.

By the way, Samiam - you have been very calm on the board lately - what's up with that'.

I always enjoy your point of view.

Regards,
John/NH

[SAMIAM]

Just been busy with work....computer was down for about a month...then a nice long vacation to the island of Vieques.Life is so hard.
Always great to hear your point of view ,also. Sometimes you have to take what I say with a grain of salt because I must admit that I love to stir the pot.

[b8tcaster]

John and Samiam, Hey John You "older guys" might not like them wakes that Samian throws up but us younger ones sure do...lol. Nothing better than getting some air under those bass boats once in awhile. Of course it doesnt make the wife happy when she is riding with me. Love the forum idea. Would be a great chance to put a face to some of the names on here and perhaps address issues and concerns.One question I have for you John though has to deal with tournament mortality. Fish and Game research has shown that tournament mortality is significantly greater for large fish versus smaller fish. What are your thoughts on this and do you think it may be affecting the fishery?

Steve

[JohnNH]

Interesting topic,

I have to look through some of my archived files for a report I received from one of the NHF&G Biologists. The report was based on a study that was done in waters in Connecticut.

I will try to get it posted for all to read.

Regards,
John/NH

[Tyler]

John, are you suggesting the creel information that the tournament groups provide to NHF&G is a flawed system? If so what do you suggest they do to resolve this?

Since this creel information is used in part to determine the number of permitted bass tournament events allowed on Winni as well as all fresh water lakes in New Hampshire, how can you, as entrenched as you are with NHF&G, allow this practice to continue?

In summary, I noticed you never addressed the study I posted regarding the FACT that "Tournament caught and released bass do not find there way home" and because of this can have a considerable negative impact on our fisheries.

[Tyler]

from the book by Dr. Harold C. Lyon Jr. titled "Angling In The Smile Of The Great Spirit"

"Bass tournaments can do a number on the bass species, even with their catch-and-release methods, Lyon said. He pointed to the transport process and post-weigh-in releases that prevent the fish from making it back to their natural, cleaner habitat, if they survive at all. There were 88 bass tournaments on the lake in the summer months last year, he said".

It appears I am not the only one who understands Bass Tournaments are an issue.

[rickstr66]

I am back from vacation. I found the article i was talking about. I will quote it word for word from the May/ June 1995 Infisherman magazine. I will start off by identifying the reasearcher. His name is Dr. Mark Ridgeway. He is from the Harkness Laboratory of Fisheries Research in Ontario canada.The article is long and starts out talking about "home ranges" for bass . It proved that in fact bass do establish a "home range" what that means is a bass will seek out a section of a lake and that's where it spends its life, in that section of a given lake. Since they established that as "overwhelmingly " true, they decided to do a displacement study. I will now quote directly from the article.
Since ridgeway and his colleagues had defined homwe ranges for adult smallmouth bass it offered the oppertunity to test tehe effect of displacement. In tournaments large numbers of bass are moved long distances befiore being released. Some observers were concerned about the effects of such displacment.
Phil Morlock, Canadian rep of the Shimano sports fisheries Initiative worked with the group to plan the study.
Reasearchers caught 18 adult smallmouth in a conventional manner . They surgically implanted them with ultrasonic transmitters. Fish were then held in livewells and released an average of 4.2 miles from thier established home range. The range of displacement was from 1/2 a mile up to 8 1/2 miles from their home range.
One fish died soon after release and 2 remained in the release area. Individual fish remained in thier release areas an average of 7.8 days. with a range of less then 1 day for one fish and another fish that remained for 30 days. Once the fish left the release site (all did except 2) they returned to their home range within 1 to 9 days with an average of 4 days. To return home they swam in the appropriate direction 25 yards from shore. they negotiated narrow channles between sections of the rocky lake and one near their home range they swam straight across bays.
Homing smallmouth moved an average of 1.5 miles a day with some up to 6 miles a day.
In this study results suggested no reason for concern over anglers removing bass from thier home ranges and releasing them far away.

[rickstr66]

Tyler, Think about what John said and how averages are decided from creel census'. Lets say you and I go out on Winni for a day of fishing. You catch 5 fish that weight 15 lbs. I catch 2 fish that weigh 3 lbs. The "average' fish for that day is 2.57 lbs. But we can assume that you had several fish over that size to get to your 15 lbs and I had none even close. I had fewer fish and smaller fish which dropped the average fish weight considerabally. One way to "fix" a creel sensus, if it needs fixing at all is to "throw out" the top 10% and bottom 10% of the total creel. I dont think this is possible at the curent time because when conducting the creel they only count total bass caught then devide by # of anglers to get to ther numbers. They would have to monitor each individual angler weighing in or take the actual results from a tournament, eliminate the top and bottom 10% and then calculate. In my opinion though this will not change the results that much. For every good angler, there is a bad. For every 4 pound smallie caught , there is a 1 pounder brought in, or close to it.

[Tyler]

However I must inject that a study on just 18 smallmouth bass vs: the extent of Dr. Wildes study where he took numerous studies and compiled the data in my opinion holds more merit and might be more accurate.

Wilde, compiled data from a number of studies using electronic transponders and external tags to track movement of the bass.
After crunching the numbers, Wilde concluded that few bass caught in tournaments make it home after their release at a single weigh-in site. In fact, many don't get very far from the release site.

I will try to find out more info on exactly how many studies, time of year, number of fish in his study etc... etc... and let you know what I find. It could very well be that certain times of the year are better or worse regarding this. Thanks for posting the info that you found.

[Tyler]

Here is the actual study I have referenced. A few more than 18 bass were studied.

I believe this information will answer once and for all the question of "Do tournament released bass find their way home". Hope NHF&G is reading this exchange because you know what, something good could come out of this. John, comments? Happy reading.

http://www.fisheries.org/html/fisher...2807p10-17.pdf

[rickstr66]

I was reading some of the older threads on fishing and came across the threads by John Vair. He is a marine biologest for the state of NH. He states the smallmouth and largemouth fisheries on Winni are in excellent shape. he also goes on to explain when these fish were 1st introduced into the lake along with trout and salmon and what species reproduce and which do not and how they are stocked. This should answer many of the questions from the different posters in the above thread.

[Tyler]

What do you expect him to say?

I know from experience that this lake is not producing the numbers and the quality of bass it used to. I am only suggesting that the increase of bass tournaments has contributed to this, I am not saying they are the only reason. That's another story for another day.

The facts and references I have posted speak for themselves. Since it is now clear that bass tournaments have a significant impact on the ability for tournament released bass to return to what it considers home, how or what should be done to correct this situation? Let's turn this into something positive. Thoughts?

[secondcurve]

To All:

Thanks for some really interesting posts. I can't wait for next spring. However, I think that the folks who have targeted the Bass tournaments are missing the real offenders. We can argue the impact o the Bass Tournaments, but clearly the real offenders are the hard water fisherman. If they go, your fishery would improve markedly. I'm not suggesting that they should be banned because it is a great sport, but clearly this form of fishing is what hurts the fishery. Just an observation.

[rickstr66]

Tyler, I expect him to tell the truth. Its his job to watch over and manage the fisheries of NH. If one were in trouble or in decline its his JOB to let the public know so steps can be taken to fix the problem.What do you think hes going to do ? Lie? What basis do you have to assume this? The facts as you refer to have shown a 3 year upward swing in the average size of bass. How is that a decline? Are as many 3 and 4 pound smallies swimming around as there were 20 years ago? probably not but I bet if you go back 40 and 60 years ago you would see the same results. As population increases and fishing popularity increases more fish are going to be caught. Bass fisherman do a lot to protect their catch. Its in our best interest to do so.
I posted a study on Smallmouth bass' ability to return to ther "home range" after being released from a tournament. You dismissed it and only wanted to rely on your study. BTW your study was done on Largemouth, not Smallmouth. Even though they are both Bass, they behave in very different manners. A Largemouth is more likely to stay where it is released , especially if the right habitat and forage is available to it.I feel the study i quoted, done on smallmouth prove just the opposite of what you state. Smallmouth overwhelmingly find their way home, and in a relitivly short amout of time. Mortality was also VERY low as only 1 in 18 bass actually died after not only being held in a livewell and driven around the lake but also have a surgical proceedure done to implant a tracking device. Speaks volumes for the bass' ability to survive and thrive. Your post couldn't be more incorrect. Please dont dismiss what doesnt support your point of view and treat as gospel that which supports your claims.

[Tyler]

Rickstr66, It is obvious you did not read the study I posted. Smallmouth were included in the study, try reading it again.

[Tyler]

Fat Jack, You are right on the money. I post a link to a study conducted by biologists and still a tournament person cannot bear to read the truth and imply this study did not include smallmouth bass is simply amazing.

Right at the begining of this article under Methods the author stated "I located 12 studies of dispersed by tournament caught for two species of black bass, largemouth and smallmouth".

This tournament person in earlier post's indicated and I quote him "the average fish caught in a tournament today is BIGGER then the average fish caught in a tournament 5,10 years ago. Thats a fact. You can look it up at Fish and Game".

I did look it up at F&G and posted the data which showed largemouth bass were holding their own, no significant increase or decrease. Smallmouth on the other hand had 3 years of decline, 3 years of increase.

In summary once again the facts speak for themselves. To bad some bass tournament folks are not willing to be honest and help correct this situation before it is to late.

[b8tcaster]

Tyler, As a tournament fisherman I will agree with you on the quality issue but as far as quantity is concerned I have not noticed any decline. Most people understand that as time goes on there will be increased pressure on most of our resources by many different user groups.Bass fishermen, lakefront property owners, boaters, and all other recreational users will have some impact on the quality of the water as well as fisheries. As i said before, I would support a plan to reduce the number of tournaments as long as it is not an attempt to exclude one user group(competitive bass anglers) entirely as Jack would suggest.Many measures have been taken over the years to reduce the impact we have on the fisheries and a few more certainly wont hurt. I remember years ago when Maine reduced the number of tournaments that could be held on any given waterbody each year. There was a tremendous amount of grumbling among tournament anglers but now we have come to accept the fact that we can still enjoy our sport and hopefully reduce the concerns of others that have an interest in the resource. I am curious what your suggestions would be to improve the situation?

Steve

[Tyler]

b8tcaster, great handle, wish I had thought of it.

Good to exchange information with someone who appears willing to have a discussion that revolves around facts rather than emotion. I get the impression from your post's that you are a fact minded person.

With that said I have many ideas that I think can help reduce the pressure/affect the growing number of bass tournaments on NH waters are having on our beloved bass both small and largemouth, and not just on Lake Winnipesaukee.

First and foremost I sometimes as well as others use the phrase or term "Number of bass tournaments" incorrectly. I could care less if there are 4 or 104 bass tournaments on any particular NH lake. As long as the scientific biologist studies show a sustaining or better yet a improving fishery you will not hear a peep from me if this was the case. With the technology and information available today regarding the effects of bass tournaments I believe NHF&G is dropping the ball.

I understand the position they are in as these tournaments have some financial impact on the immediate area but this amount in the grand scheme of things is quite small when up against the general tourist dollars spent. But it is a measurable amount thus IMO the reluctance for NHF&G to say anything negative regarding this issue.

My ideas to help minimize the effects of bass tournament fishing on NH lakes are as follows, and are in no particular order.

* Mandatory use of barbless hooks on all artificial baits, or at least when fishing soft plastics, IE: carolina rigs.

* Reduce the tournament day length by 2 hours.

* Reduce to 6 the number of bass allowed to be weighed in as opposed to the current 8 fish limit, and reduce to 2 the number of bass allowed to be weighed in as opposed to the current 4 fish limit for the spring events.

* Conduct delayed mortality studies to determing if this is an issue or not.

* Mandatory use of livewell chemicals.

* Mandatory use of oxygen injection system livewells only.

* Stricter penalities for dead fish that are weighed in. Example, 5 Lbs. per dead fish penalty vs: the current meager .5 lb.

* Determine what is the best weighin bag and make it mandatory for all tournaments.

* Mandatory pre weighin tanks for all tournaments that have 10 or more boats or 20 participants or more.

* Mandatory fish release boat for the tournaments that have 30 or more participants.

* Multiple weighins during the summer months (July & August).

* Eliminate tournaments during the spawn months of May and June. I understand the immediate catch and release from 5-15 through 6-15. I am suggesting no bass tournament for the entire months of May and June, including paper tournaments.

* Agree on what information should be collected for the creel census every T is supposed to submit after events. It appears there is some controversy regarding the current system that is in place.

I could go on and on but I think these regulations would help greatly. How about your thoughts?

[rickstr66]

Talk about 100% mortality rate!!!! NOt too many ice fisherman , especially in derbys practice catch and release

[rickstr66]

Tyler, I post a study as well and direct you to a post by , not just a biologest, but a NH fish and game biologest that states the Bass in Winni are doing fine. In your post about 3 years of decline followed by 3 year rise, I have 2 points. 1 the three year rise was the last 3 years . Indicating a fishery getting better. In the last 2 years you call a decline in went down by .01.......Hardly a decline at all. Infact you would have to call that a statistical tie. So I read that as a 2 year decline followed by a 1 year remaining the same followed by 3 years of improvment. Your comments on what to do to improve tournaments..... Some sound great, some not so great. I Love the barbless hook idea, but dont limit it to artificials only. make the weekend anglers using live bait do it too. Live bait is far more likely to be swallowed by bass. Im not saying plastics arn't. I for one always crush my barbs when carolina rig fishing..... even in tournaments. I vote no for tournament hour reduction. 6 or 8 hours... no big difference. If a fish is in a livewell 6 hours... is 8 hours a big difference? Im under the opinion that once a bass is in a properly run and oxygenated livewell, he gets acustomed to his enviorment fairly quickly. the key to a fishes survival is proper use of a livewell which I am all for. The livewells were built to keep 10 bass alive and well. when done correctly 8 can survive fine. No touornaments from May 15- June 15 is fine with me. I dont think you see a lot of tournaments from ice out till may 15 and from june 15 to the 30th anyway. Mortality studies..... Yes. Livewell chemicals.... yes. I use them all the time anyway. Oxygen injection... not needed If livewells run on a timer or constantly. Most club lever tournaments usually have their members keep their fish in their livewells till its time to weigh them in. At most there are 2-3 people in line. I agree for all "open " style tournamenst pre weigh in tanks and release boats to be used. dead fish penalty...... Not sure on that one. Its a great idea but sometimes a fish will die even if you do all you can. I remember fishing squam about 5 years ago. It was in July. I hooked a fish in 15' of water, got it to the boat. It was hooked right on the side of the mouth perfectally. Hook came out without a problem. Put the fish in the livewell. It was dead 2 minutes later. To this day I dont know what happened to it.. If youy wantr to increase it fine but not to 5lbs. a 1lb penalty sounds right to me. many a tournament place is decided by ounces not lbs. I still believe the vast majority of guys take great care to keep their fish alive. here is one I will add of my own. Drop the number of fish allowed to be taken out of the lake to bring home from 5 to 2 per day. There is a guy who parks his boat at allocoya beach every weekend, drops 5 crayfish down to the bottom and puts 5 three pound smallies in his freezer dozens of times. I have seen him there almost everytime I fish the lake.

[Tyler]

Rickstr, Just to clarify the last three years of rise was NOT the last three years, I think you need to go back and re read some of these post's. The only information available is for the years 1996 thru 2001. Did you ever ask NHF&G for the years 2002, 3, and 2004 that I asked if you would be so kind to get in an earlier post?

Good suggestions on the other items.

[JohnNH]

Tyler, Your post re; Economic contributions and additional restrictions???

Let's get some facts on the table:

1) The average Bass angler is running a boat that ranges from a low of $25,000 and as high as $50,000. In general they keep these boats for 3 or 4 years and buy a new one. In addition, they normally have a tow vehicle that is either a high-end pick-up or a stout SUV and in either case these vehicles are $30,000 to over $50,00 in some cases. You do the math = good for the local economy.

2) Tackle and other gear. The average tournament angler has more tackle than small bait shops in their boat. In addition, new electronics & GPS devices come out at least once or twice a year and tournament anglers buy them at an alarming rate. The average non-tournament anglers get by with electronics that cost $100 to $300. Speaking from experience, my last boat (Skeeter ZX225 (advertisement)) was equipped with 2 Lowrance units with GPS and mapping and cost over $1,000 each.

3) Tournament restrictions???????????.

Let's set the record straight:

In the past years our larger organizations introduced catch & release, used tubs with circulation pumps at weigh-in's, use release boats, pay large sums of money for tournament weigh-in sites, pay for parking.

In addition, we have contributed $10's of thousands of dollars to scholarship funds within New Hampshire. We also clean up lakes, streams, rivers and ponds as well as ramp sites. One would not believe the amount of trash that we pick up on an annual basis (and some of the items we find are ridiculous = toilet bowls, car parts, etc.).

What else do we do for the community, you might ask:

Dozens of kids casting contests, DARE programs, provide assistance to valued groups like the Gilford P.D. Derby, many of us are certified NHF&G Let's Go Fishing instructors and contribute hundreds & hundreds of hours teaching children & families about fishing, environment and safety.

I am very proud to mention the annual event that I help organize; Camp Carefree Fishing Derby: every year we take about 150 diabetic children fishing for the day on Merrymeeting lake. In addition, we conduct training classes on shore, provide other games and activities for these wonderful kids and provide donations that allow kid's that don't have the funds to attend this marvelous 2 week camp.

Restrictions you say:

Let's look a bit closer:

NH has a 5 fish limit for Bass. In most tournaments (especially the larger ones) the limit is held to 8 fish. This is an attempt on our part to reduce live well congestion.

We use recirculating tanks at weigh-ins as previously mentioned.

We call boats in 10 at a time to reduce the time the fish are out of the wells. With 4 recirculating tanks on shore (150 gallons each), this reduces the impact the fish.

We use release boats and transport the fish a substantial distance away from the weigh-in sites.

We are only allowed to use 50% of the parking at state owned ramp sites. As previously mentioned, we spend some serious money every year for parking.

As of 3 years ago, we can't start our events until 7AM.

We pay the state for licenses - that's normal. We also pay for NHF&G tournament permits. In addition, in many cases we need permits from towns to conduct an event. We are also required to get permits from Marine Patrol to conduct a water event.

Tyler; your comment about reduction from 8 to 6 hours is way off and will not be well received by a fairly large community and I seriously doubt that NHF&G will introduce it (but it’s up to you to ask them)

As I said before, perhaps it's a good idea to hold an open forum someplace in the Lakes Region to bring all the ideas & concerns to the table.

I would be glad to help organize this.

John/NH

[Tyler]

John, let me help you here.

Regarding the economic impact to the area I see no facts, just your opinion. Not saying that is bad but please do not try and misslead people.

"The average Bass angler is running a boat that ranges from a low of $25,000 and as high as $50,000. In general they keep these boats for 3 or 4 years and buy a new one. In addition, they normally have a tow vehicle that is either a high-end pick-up or a stout SUV and in either case these vehicles are $30,000 to over $50,00 in some cases. You do the math = good for the local economy".

Let's examine that statement of yours. Good for the local economy, yup but how much? Most of the boats and vehicles are not purchased in the State of NH. If you look at the dispersion of anglers that fish bass tournaments in NH you will realize that the majority of anglers are from out of state. This means Suv's and boats are purchased elsewhere and bring minimal financial benefit to the local economy.

Now let's examine the following statements of yours.


"Tournament restrictions???????????".
"In addition, we have contributed $10's of thousands of dollars to scholarship funds within New Hampshire".

Not sure what contributing 10's of thousands of dollars to scholarship funds has to do with "Tournament restrictions?

"Dozens of kids casting contests, DARE programs, provide assistance to valued groups like the Gilford P.D. Derby, many of us are certified NHF&G Let's Go Fishing instructors and contribute hundreds & hundreds of hours teaching children & families about fishing, environment and safety".

"I am very proud to mention the annual event that I help organize; Camp Carefree Fishing Derby: every year we take about 150 diabetic children fishing for the day on Merrymeeting lake. In addition, we conduct training classes on shore, provide other games and activities for these wonderful kids and provide donations that allow kid's that don't have the funds to attend this marvelous 2 week camp".

Once again what do these items have to do with "Tournament restrictions"?

"As of 3 years ago, we can't start our events until 7AM".
Why is this john, please explain?

"As I said before, perhaps it's a good idea to hold an open forum someplace in the Lakes Region to bring all the ideas & concerns to the table".
You did this several years ago and it was not effective, why go through this again?

[rickstr66]

John is a member of a NEW HAMPSHIRE fishing trail. The VAST MAJORITY of the people fishing that trail come from NH. There are several other major NH trails along with numerous clubs. Im sure they all buy their stuff local or at least 95% do.
Tyler where do you think the money comes from for donations to these causes John mentions........ TOURNAMENTS..... Fewer tournaments... less money to go around to the charities, casting kids and other programs.If a given trail has 5 tournaments and a "benifit open and were told they had to eliminate a couple of tournaments im sorry to say but the benifit tournament would be one of them. John was merely pointing out some of the good things Bass tournament are responsible for, since it seems you and others only want to find negatives.
As fare as buying tackle.... NH has a gold mine called Northern Bass Supply. Its a bassfishing super store. It draws business from all of New England and Nation wide. I personally make 3-4 visits a year. I drive up, shop, get lunch and fill up with gass before going home. An average trip for me to NBS is about $300 when all is said and done. I usually go with a buddy or 2 as well who spend just as much.
When my club schedules a tournament in the Lakes Region, I along with countless others plan their summer vacations around it. We bring our families, get cottages or hotel rooms. We spend a week or 2 and trust me..... lots of MONEY.

As far as starting times.... it was agreed upon after fish and game met with the various bass fishing organizations that a 7am start time would benifit everyone.... bassfisherman and home owners alike. This was a consession the bassfisherman made that they didnt have to. They did so for the good of everyone. There is no current state law restricting boat use at any given hour.
Bottom line in this whole thread is... I will listen to N.H. Fish and Game and their biologists. Its their job to determine if too many tournaments are being held and if a fishey is in decline. They say no on both. This thread should die here. There is nothing more that can be said that already hasn't been said. Its pretty sad. I stared out asking about lake records for bass and it turned into a bass fisherman bash. What a shame.

[JohnNH]

Well said.


John/NH

[ApS]

Originally Posted by rickstr66

"...If a given trail has 5 tournaments and a "benefit open" and were told they had to eliminate a couple of tournaments I'm sorry to say but the benefit tournament would be one of them..."

Some "special-interest" organizations use Charity as form of blackmail. Or bribe. Or hammer. Or club.

Is the bass tournament becoming one of those?

[rickstr66]

Tyler asked what tournaments have to do with the events John mentioned. Its a fact... less tournaments... less to donate. Its the same for everyone. If you normally make 50 grand a year and donate 1000 to a charity but this year you only make 30 grand... you will most likely have to donate less. Its not about holding anything over anyones head. Its economical facts. We are by no means saying..... Give us more tournaments or else we pull our donations and charity work.

[Tyler]

Good idea on your part to end this. One last comment from me.

The information I posted regarding creel info from NHF&G was for the years 1996 through 2001. The info for the years 2002, 2003, and 2004 is not available yet. That is disturbing.

With that said we do not have a good indicator of how Lake Winni or any other NH lake is doing for the last three years.

I attended a meeting with NHF&G some years ago and they indicated this information is a major data point used to set the number of bass events, not just on Winni but on all NH waters. Since it is not even compiled yet for the last three years how are they doing this? I hope you find this unacceptable and lobby them to improve. Thanks.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Matinnh

"Is there a new hybrid in Winnipesaukee known as a Bigmouth...?

Over Christmas, my guests were using my computer to research "monkfish", a dinner menu favorite (for them).

It is known locally as the "Allmouth".

http://www.gotosnapshot.com/Monkfish...h_catalog.html

[Grant]

Finally got around scanning some old pics I took when my cousin and I were fishing Winni for bass one week in '84. We had a VERY good week. We each scored one of this size:

http://www.pbase.com/gfevans/image/38571104

And, no, we were not practicing catch and release all the time back then -- we still loved eating the bass from the Lake, and enjoyed quite a few that week. And a few beers as well...

http://www.pbase.com/gfevans/image/38570899

[Rattlesnake Gal]

Found this in Google images.

Me with a 8.79 lb Largemouth Bass
caught (and released) on Lake Winnipesaukee, NH. in Aug.'97

[Grant]

Nice fish.

Looks like the Wolfeboro waterfront behind him.

In all my years fishing the Lake, I've never caught a largemouth...probably because we fish for smallies...

LOL -- I read the caption, looked at the guy and thought, "RG is a dude?!?!?"

[Grant]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Over Christmas, my guests were using my computer to research "monkfish", a dinner menu favorite (for them).

It is known locally as the "Allmouth".

http://www.gotosnapshot.com/Monkfish...h_catalog.html

Monkfish -- also known in some parts as "poor-man's lobster." Very tasty, although somewhat difficult to cook (I think). They look much different with skin & head removed...

[Rattlesnake Gal]

Originally Posted by Grant

LOL -- I read the caption, looked at the guy and thought, "RG is a dude?!?!?"

Oops, I’ve been found out! LOL - Without thinking, I just copied and pasted what was written under the picture.
Guess I should have edited the me part out.
No idea who he is, just liked his ‘big fish” and thought I would share it with my friends. I still haven’t caught a single fish on Lake Winnipesaukee.
How does someone go about getting a whopper recorded? Would most eat it, release or have it mounted?
PS: I really am a gal! (You have all seen me in the ForumFest photo.)

[rickstr66]

I am a Bass Fisherman. We always practice catch and release. having said that ... When would we keep a "whopper"? Everyones criteria is different. Most tournament guys would never kkep a fish unless it was a fish of a lifetime. Up here in the North that means a Largemouth over 8 lbs and a Smallmouth over 6. When harvesting a fish like that you have to ask yourself... What kind of lake are you harvesting it from(big or small) How old are these fish likely to be? How many more spawns could they contribute to? IN most cases fish this size are VERY old in the northern part of the country. They likely dont have too many years left. So if somoeone catches a fish of a lifetime and its close to the sizes I mention let them keep it for a trophy, otherwise put them back to fight and spawn another day. It will only help the fishery in the long run. Hope this answers your question as to whether to keep a "whopper" or not.

[JohnNH]

The gentleman in the picture is Rob Frye. He is the current president of the NH Bass Federation.

Rob is a great guy and that's a real nice Largemouth.

John/NH

[Tyler]

Rob looks nothing like that now! LOL.

[upthesaukee]

RG, if you should happen to catch that "whopper" that eats all those crawfish around Rattlesnake, what you can do is take a bunch of measurements of the fish (alive) such as the length, girth, point of tail to point of tail, and take several closeup photographs. The more measurements, the better. If you happen to carry a scale, record the fish's weight. Then put the fish back in the water to live another day.

Take your data and pictures to a quality taxidermist and they will, utilizing a styrofoam or other type of plastic mold, re-create your fish for you to hang over the headboard, fireplace, front door, etc..

The cost, though not cheap, is not much different than bringing in a "whopper", hoping that the taxidermist can get the skin off with no damage and recreate the fish.

Want a fish fry??? stick with the smaller fish. Above all, have fun fishing.

[gtxrider]

I have only caught 1 large mouth at the lake. I was walking out to the boat to go fishing and saw a bass in very shallow, no more than 2 foot of water. She was sitting on a bed between 2 docks and just for kicks I tied on a Berkly Power Bait Crawfish with no weight. No sooner did it hit the water the bass attacked the bait. I put her right back in the same spot.

I have always tried catch and release, I'm not to crazy about eating fish. They eat worms, yuck!

Take a picture and you can carry it with for evidence when you tell the story of the big one you caught.

[Senter Cove Guy]

Grant and I did a shore dive last summer that started at the entrance to Copp's Creek, just north of Store Island. It's weedy there until you get out aways. Returning from the dive, in the weeds, we swam with a small school of large mouths. I had never really seen a large mouth before but they were easily distinguishable from small mouths because of the black line that ran along their sides almost from head to tail.

[Grant]

And I think that those were the first largemouths I've ever seen in the Lake. Naturally, you see many more smallies when diving since you're in deeper, colder water, and the largemouths like the shallower, warmer, weedy areas. We did see some very nice smallies last summer. Didn't *catch* too many, but certainly *saw* them...