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View Poll Results: Speed limit - If you had to choose, which would it be???
No Speed Limit Law 325 74.37%
Current Law - 45 Day 25 Night 112 25.63%
Voters: 437. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-17-2009, 01:41 PM   #201
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Whoa, calm down there buckaroo....that's the point, speeding past a fisherman (or anyone else) at 70 MPH at a distance of 150' was legal until this year...unpleasant, irritating but legal. Not any longer. And despite some who contend otherwise, the Sl was not ONLY about safety. As far as your melodrama about ficticious fearmongering...chill.
Just curious as to how you obtained the speed measurement of 70 mph.
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Old 09-17-2009, 01:46 PM   #202
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Just curious as to how you obtained the speed measurement of 70 mph.
You're right...hmmm, maybe it was 80.
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Old 09-17-2009, 01:53 PM   #203
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Default just ones persons opinion (sadly,,,)

GFBL.

Odd man out again, but I for one thoroughly enjoy the sound of a marine engine with an open exhaust running across the lake.

And that’s day, night, anytime, ANYTIME.

I personally find it even more soothing and tranquil than hearing nothing but waves and crickets.

To me its just one of those sounds that brings back very positive memories of my childhood and spending summers on Winnipesaukee when there was less other background noise and you could hear the many boats with open exhaust buzzing the lake.

It was always a hallmark of good weather and good times, and a good running motor made the most wonderful drone off in the distance. I could always go to sleep with the sound of a powerboat off in the distance, and to date, its still one of the most memorable things that I long for from my youth.

I will gladly concur that some boats and operators can be very annoying at the docks when their boats hit some huge decibels and they are playing with the throttle like a goofball, but other than that I can think of few sounds that I enjoy more than a boat cruising across the lake with a harmonious tone filling the air.
p.s. as for being buzzed at 150’ given that my house is 40’ long, your talking 3 1/2 house lengths separation,,, Given that I drive Rt 93 every day with people passing me doing 80+ MPH, often less than 5’ away,,, well 70 MPH at 150’ sounds not too bad if they are in full control and paying proper attention to what their doing.

Well this is just ones persons opinion (sadly,,,)
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Old 09-17-2009, 02:06 PM   #204
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GFBL.

Given that I drive Rt 93 every day with people passing me doing 80+ MPH, often less than 5í away(
Which is precisely why I have steadfastly refused to swim, fish, sail, or allow my family to go tubing on Rt 93.
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Old 09-17-2009, 02:46 PM   #205
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Which is precisely why I have steadfastly refused to swim, fish, sail, or allow my family to go tubing on Rt 93.
Don't give up your day job!
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Old 09-17-2009, 03:34 PM   #206
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Which is precisely why I have steadfastly refused to swim, fish, sail, or allow my family to go tubing on Rt 93.
Guess you could always declare Winnipesaukee your personal playground, otherwise EVERYONE using the lake needs to exercise plenty of caution all the time. Just being in the water is dangerous, are we going to start assigning lifeguards to every swimmer?

Sorry but I donít see how getting run over at 45 is any less painful than getting run over at 70.

And there are those who will argue that the difference in speed will allow more time to get out of the way or for the driver to steer around, but personally donít buy either argument blindly.

If your swimming and a power boat is bearing down on you, sorry your not too likely to be able to get out of their way at any speed.

As for the driver of the boat being able to observe, react, and successfully avoid any particular problem at various speeds, well I think the answer is a legitimate ďmaybeĒ. If he sees the problem, if he responds appropriately, if, if, if,,,,

Iíll even go so far as to say that there are more inherent risks operating a boat at 70 vs 45, maybe a lot more.

But what most here seem to be arguing is that the people operating boats over 45 are the minority of Winnipesaukee boaters and are NOT the problem when referring to boating safety issues.

The common theme I see is bad drivers, and I fully agree.

Speed does not = bad driver and bad driver does not = speed.

Sure they can be equal, but most here seem to agree thatís not what we observe. Itís the inexperienced and inconsiderate/irresponsible operators who are the problem. And most of those knuckle heads boats barely go 45 let alone do 70. There are exceptions to everything, but Iím referring to the bulk of the knuckleheads that you see on any given Saturday during the summer who are driving like kids at a go-kart track.

I enjoy boating and swimming as much as the next guy and almost always do so with my young children. And the vast majority of the time Iím boating on Winnipesaukee Iím cruising the lake at 35 Ė 45 MPH, but I do enjoy a good blast when the conditions allow, and donít feel that if done responsibly I should be called a felon or looked down upon as some evil person with no regard for life, property, or common sense.

Call me optimistic, but I have faith that most of my fellow boaters operate responsibly, otherwise I wouldnít risk bringing my children to a lake that allowed powerboats, there are options. I just donít see boats doing 70 next to the sandbar all day long. Sorry, thatís not my experience, and I would hope its not yours.

So in my mind the whole speed limit thing is just feel-good legislation that accomplishes nothing in the way of tangible safety improvements. Sorry it completely misses the mark in my opinion. And I for one donít buy into the concept that a reduction of 1 accident every year (or every 5 years) that might be directly attributed to high speed operation is a reasonable tradeoff for the loss felt by every other boater.

Sorry, Iíve had enough of this topic for now, Over and Out,,,
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Old 09-17-2009, 05:07 PM   #207
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GFBL.

Odd man out again, but I for one thoroughly enjoy the sound of a marine engine with an open exhaust running across the lake.

And thatís day, night, anytime, ANYTIME.

I personally find it even more soothing and tranquil than hearing nothing but waves and crickets.

To me its just one of those sounds that brings back very positive memories of my childhood and spending summers on Winnipesaukee when there was less other background noise and you could hear the many boats with open exhaust buzzing the lake.

It was always a hallmark of good weather and good times, and a good running motor made the most wonderful drone off in the distance. I could always go to sleep with the sound of a powerboat off in the distance, and to date, its still one of the most memorable things that I long for from my youth.

I will gladly concur that some boats and operators can be very annoying at the docks when their boats hit some huge decibels and they are playing with the throttle like a goofball, but other than that I can think of few sounds that I enjoy more than a boat cruising across the lake with a harmonious tone filling the air.
p.s. as for being buzzed at 150í given that my house is 40í long, your talking 3 1/2 house lengths separation,,, Given that I drive Rt 93 every day with people passing me doing 80+ MPH, often less than 5í away,,, well 70 MPH at 150í sounds not too bad if they are in full control and paying proper attention to what their doing.

Well this is just ones persons opinion (sadly,,,)

I also feel the same way about above water exhaust. I personally love the sound and the louder the better... I may bet flamed for this but the one thing I don't like is when you hear that beautiful rumble coming from a far. The sound gets louder and louder. Excitement builds and I await to see a 40 ft GFB come around the corner and blow through the bay out into the next. But alas the sound gets closer and closer and the excitement builds and there it is.... A 18 ft bowrider with a tricked out exhaust on a six cyl. Reminds me of something like on "the fast and furious"... if you have above water exhaust... Have the boat that goes with it.. LOL
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Old 09-17-2009, 05:14 PM   #208
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Don't give up your day job!
Hey at least it shows he has a sense of humor.... Many just come on, stir the pot and leave. Turtle has always stayed true to his beliefs and does explain them without insult. While I totally disagree with his position I did get a chuckle out of this..
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Old 09-17-2009, 05:50 PM   #209
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Turtle has always stayed true to his beliefs and does explain them without insult...
NOT!

OCD I love ya man but Turtleboy is not innocent of hurling insults.
I know of at least three darts (maybe more at least one in this very thread) thrown at my personal life namely my profession.

TB - I'd appreciate it if you didn't drag my profession into the argument anymore. I have chosen to openly share my profession with the members of this site. As a matter of fact I have shared many details of my life with members of this site. To use my profession against me in a manor to discredit me or question my intelligence is pretty rude.

However, I do agree that at least TB owns up to the real agenda of the SL. Unlike some supporters who argue that the SL is purely about speed. I can at least tolerate and understand BI and TB's position on the matter. I really believe that the only thing we disagree on is how to corral the Boneheads of the lake.

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Old 09-17-2009, 06:12 PM   #210
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I also feel the same way about above water exhaust. I personally love the sound and the louder the better... I may bet flamed for this but the one thing I don't like is when you hear that beautiful rumble coming from a far. The sound gets louder and louder. Excitement builds and I await to see a 40 ft GFB come around the corner and blow through the bay out into the next. But alas the sound gets closer and closer and the excitement builds and there it is.... A 18 ft bowrider with a tricked out exhaust on a six cyl. Reminds me of something like on "the fast and furious"... if you have above water exhaust... Have the boat that goes with it.. LOL
The Sl supporters say that the general public does not like performance boats. But, I cannot tell you how many times people take photos of my boat. A typical weekend day could be at least 5-6 photos.And, that's just in one day! Whenever I dock, there is always a crowd around the boat. If I go to leave a channel, alot of times, people will wave me through and tell me they want to watch and HEAR the boat get on plane. They really enjoy the visuals and sound as I do and most of us do. If only the rest of the world wasn't so uptight.
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Old 09-17-2009, 06:51 PM   #211
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The Sl supporters say that the general public does not like performance boats. But, I cannot tell you how many times people take photos of my boat. A typical weekend day could be at least 5-6 photos.And, that's just in one day! Whenever I dock, there is always a crowd around the boat. If I go to leave a channel, alot of times, people will wave me through and tell me they want to watch and HEAR the boat get on plane. They really enjoy the visuals and sound as I do and most of us do. If only the rest of the world wasn't so uptight.
what type of boat??? now you have my interest peaked!
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Old 09-18-2009, 06:50 AM   #212
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You're right...hmmm, maybe it was 80.
Maybe it was. But then again, maybe it was 40 and your perception of speeds is a bit off. Hmmmmmm.
My point is that you are throwing this 70 MPH speed out there like it is some kind of fact, when it is really just a guess on your part. Unless you had a radar gun, you have no way of knowing just how fast that boat was going.
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Old 09-18-2009, 07:43 AM   #213
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Maybe it was. But then again, maybe it was 40 and your perception of speeds is a bit off. Hmmmmmm.
My point is that you are throwing this 70 MPH speed out there like it is some kind of fact, when it is really just a guess on your part. Unless you had a radar gun, you have no way of knowing just how fast that boat was going.
Well actually, here's why it seemed so fast. At the same time the GFBL was going past my fishing boat, an F/A-18 fighter jet was going over my boat (also 150') in the exact same direction. The GFBL made it to Gilford first!
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Old 09-18-2009, 07:59 AM   #214
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Default General public don't like performance boats???

How come they swarm in droves when US Offshore had their races on Winnipesaukee a decade ago? How come the vintage race regatta is a very popular event at Wolfeboro? When the Winnipesaukee Water Ski Racing Association had their 65 mile catalina style marathon back in the 70's, that was a premier event that draw hundreds from all over the lake. Even the summer, I don't know how many times people ask me questions about my boat, photograph it, even ask me for a ride.
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Old 09-18-2009, 08:13 AM   #215
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Well actually, here's why it seemed so fast. At the same time the GFBL was going past my fishing boat, an F/A-18 fighter jet was going over my boat (also 150') in the exact same direction. The GFBL made it to Gilford first!


Pretty funny yet absurd, exaggerations and mis-truths to make a point.

I am all for better living through sarcasm but letís try to support statements with facts.
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Old 09-18-2009, 08:41 AM   #216
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Well actually, here's why it seemed so fast. At the same time the GFBL was going past my fishing boat, an F/A-18 fighter jet was going over my boat (also 150') in the exact same direction. The GFBL made it to Gilford first!
WOW, nothing like wiping out any trace of credibility you might have had a chance at.

I’m all for a spirited debate, and a touch of humor is a good way to lighten the tone, but with all things there is a tipping point, and I think that was it.
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Old 09-18-2009, 09:19 AM   #217
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The GFBL made it to Gilford first!
Only because the Hornet slowed in the last second to line him up for a gun kill ! Turns out that "elchase" was the pilot and was doing some freelance work for "Dog the Bounty Hunter" ... you know, catching some felons. He got a lil carried away.
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Old 09-18-2009, 09:21 AM   #218
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My coffee just came out of my nose

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Old 09-18-2009, 09:32 AM   #219
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It would have been pretty easy for El to catch felons if he had been at the Town Docks back when Littlefield staggered into his boat. Seeing him try to leave before untying the boat would have been another indication that perhaps he was over served? Sometimes people will do most anything to avoid a DRAM shop claim.

Just sayin......

"And state law gives boaters 48 hours to report accidents to the Marine Patrol if they believe the damages are less than $500. That could have been a factor in Littlefield's case because he did not turn himself in to the Marine Patrol until the deadline was approaching, making any test for alcohol impairment irrelevant.
Authorities and Littlefield was with family and friends all day on Aug. 11, boating, drinking, and partying from noon until about 9 p.m. Witnesses said they saw him later at a local restaurant where he danced by himself and, later, slumped over a table with his head bobbing and eyes closed.
At about 9:30, Littlefield allegedly took his boat out onto Meredith Bay where, in the vicinity of the Grouse Point Club, he rammed Hartman's boat. State experts estimate that Littlefield's Baja was traveling about 25 miles per hour when the crash occurred.
The accident did not surprise Carolyn Latti, of Latti & Anderson, a Boston law firm that specializes in maritime law.
Latti, who has worked on several civil cases related to boating mishaps on Winnipesaukee, said alcohol abuse is frequently a factor in serious accidents on the water.
"The majority of them involve drinking," she said. "It's drinking or inexperience.""
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Old 09-18-2009, 09:50 AM   #220
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if you have above water exhaust... Have the boat that goes with it.. LOL
I’m on board with your theme, and don’t have any use for a buzz – buzz boat that sounds like crap.

I’m referring to that sweet sound of a real marine engine.

Pretty much anything that’s a genuine classic, old woodies, 60’s and 70’ fiberglass jet drives and inboards, and even modern future classics like a Scarab or a Formula or a Fountain or whatever. Just love that deep, full-throated bellow filling Alton Bay or blasting across the Broads, GOOD Stuff for sure!!!

Maybe even throw in an old flat-bottom jet or v-drive with full open headers,,, well maybe not too many of them, but they were fun to see once or twice in a weekend.

Sure miss the good old days when we had real gas, and the marina smelled of the heavy premix in the crisp morning air, and the rumble of a big block exhaust lumbering along through the NWZ, it all said that we were gonna have FUN today!

No apologies, but that’s my idea of a good day, just like the ones I grew up with EVERY summer on Winnipesaukee!

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Old 09-18-2009, 10:41 AM   #221
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what type of boat??? now you have my interest peaked!
Something to help me enjoy the lake with.
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Old 09-18-2009, 11:33 AM   #222
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Well actually, here's why it seemed so fast. At the same time the GFBL was going past my fishing boat, an F/A-18 fighter jet was going over my boat (also 150') in the exact same direction. The GFBL made it to Gilford first!
At least that is funny!

Pretty good one....

Enjoy the weekend all. I am not headed up to the lake unfortuantely. Why is it that September is always so BUSY!!!

BTW No need to jump on TB here I think he was joking around.
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Old 09-18-2009, 11:35 AM   #223
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Well actually, here's why it seemed so fast. At the same time the GFBL was going past my fishing boat, an F/A-18 fighter jet was going over my boat (also 150') in the exact same direction. The GFBL made it to Gilford first!
WOW! That is amazing! Great observation!
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Old 09-18-2009, 03:35 PM   #224
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Something to help me enjoy the lake with.
Very nice!! Any more details on that beauty you'd care to share? You could always PM.........
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Old 09-18-2009, 03:47 PM   #225
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At least that is funny!

Pretty good one....

Enjoy the weekend all. I am not headed up to the lake unfortuantely. Why is it that September is always so BUSY!!!

BTW No need to jump on TB here I think he was joking around.
The sad part of this is that it is becoming harder and harder to know when they are only joking.

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Old 09-18-2009, 04:33 PM   #226
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Something to help me enjoy the lake with.
Beautiful boat.. I think I've seen her around.. Will meet up with you next year and we can be law abiding citizens down the broads..
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Old 09-19-2009, 12:19 PM   #227
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What happens in the broads stays in the broads.
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Old 09-20-2009, 01:19 PM   #228
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I'm trying Don... Really I am....
Sounds like Hazelnut got taken out to the woodshed (and I don't mean the restaurant in Moultonboro).
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Old 09-20-2009, 01:57 PM   #229
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Sounds like Hazelnut got taken out to the woodshed (and I don't mean the restaurant in Moultonboro).
Actually NO! Again TB you are wrong. I reached out to Don as a good faith effort last week. He and I had a very nice chat about some of the tactics used by BOTH sides on this board. I told him that I would do my best to keep the conversation positive and avoid the traps and misdirections by certain members of this forum. We agreed that both sides needed to stick to the facts and avoid personal attacks. Again after very very long detailed messages and conversation with Don I sympathized with the monumental task Don has wading through all the B.S.

My quote that you misrepresented was directed to show Don that certain members (you) are using snippy personal attacks. So as I mentioned in a post earlier that I would work to keep on topic. Your comments are making it VERY hard to do TB.

Sorry to burst your bubble.
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Old 09-20-2009, 03:35 PM   #230
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Sounds like Hazelnut got taken out to the woodshed (and I don't mean the restaurant in Moultonboro).
Don't drag the woodshed into your post, even if it is supposed to be sarcastic. not kidding.
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Old 10-13-2009, 09:41 AM   #231
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Alot of votes have been cast.... Hard to argue with that.
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Old 10-13-2009, 02:00 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE View Post
Alot of votes have been cast.... Hard to argue with that.
Oh OCD silly man. Those votes were all cast by people who we recruited from other sites such as OSO. No to mention that they were cast by scofflaws. Each vote was cast by a GFBL boat owner with an agenda. Haven't you heard. Keep this in mind too, www.winnipesaukee.com is a GFBL site that only has readers and posters who own 100MPH GFBL boats. So the poll is null and void.

I think that about covers the replies that should be coming in 5..4..3..2..
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Old 10-13-2009, 02:28 PM   #233
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Oh OCD silly man. Those votes were all cast by people who we recruited from other sites such as OSO. No to mention that they were cast by scofflaws. Each vote was cast by a GFBL boat owner with an agenda. Haven't you heard. Keep this in mind too, www.winnipesaukee.com is a GFBL site that only has readers and posters who own 100MPH GFBL boats. So the poll is null and void.

I think that about covers the replies that should be coming in 5..4..3..2..
Sounds like the teacher needs to go to this site so as to understand some of the basic principles of polling:
http://www.notrain-nogain.org/Train/Exer/Num/poll.asp
The forum's results differ significantly from a state poll and from,
say, certain road associations previously mentioned who unanimously voted to send money to Winnfabs.
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Old 10-13-2009, 03:36 PM   #234
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The best lines here are "Self-selecting polls only report the results of people who cared one way or another to either call a particular number, reply by email or are willing to be interviewed in person in a public place (think of mall surveys). The results cannot be generalized beyond those who choose to answer." and "The results of random samples can be applied to a larger group because every person in the study group had an equal opportunity to be selected."

How appropriate to the present case were we have a small group conducting their own self-selecting polls and trying to generalize the results across the entire population, while at the same time trying to discredit a large scale broad based random poll properly conducted by a well known, legitimate, and unbiased polling expert, because those results do not suit their goals. Imagine them telling a legislator, "We polled ourselves and 60% of the GFBL crowd agrees that the SL should sunset, while the other 40% of us think the limits should just be raised."
 
Old 10-13-2009, 03:38 PM   #235
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so I heard from a friend that they only have 6 radar guns that have been issued to the MP due to budget cut backs. But only 4 officers are currently trained to use them. Anyone know if that is true?
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Old 10-13-2009, 03:58 PM   #236
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I was at Channel Marine last weekend, very sad as there were a lot of people taking their boats out for the season. The disturbing part was many of them got for sale signs. I have never seen anything like it. Apparently many boaters are calling it quits. The economy seems to be taking its toll, although I am sure that will be debated as well.
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Old 10-13-2009, 04:13 PM   #237
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I was at Channel Marine last weekend, very sad as there were a lot of people taking their boats out for the season. The disturbing part was many of them got for sale signs. I have never seen anything like it. Apparently many boaters are calling it quits. The economy seems to be taking its toll, although I am sure that will be debated as well.
You should have Polled them..

I am hooking the boat up tomorrow for the 9 hour journey south.. On the way back hitting atlantic city.. want to go?
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Old 10-13-2009, 06:08 PM   #238
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You should have Polled them..

I am hooking the boat up tomorrow for the 9 hour journey south.. On the way back hitting atlantic city.. want to go?
So how far south are you going? Nine hours from the lake puts you in Dover, Delaware at best....or worst in southern NJ. NB
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Old 10-13-2009, 06:30 PM   #239
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So how far south are you going? Nine hours from the lake puts you in Dover, Delaware at best....or worst in southern NJ. NB
9 hours will put me in Richmond VA.. I hope.. :-)

Going a bit out of Richmond in a place called Charles City.. Maybe get a ride on a 37 AThunder with twin 525's..
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Old 10-13-2009, 06:42 PM   #240
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In 9 hours you won't be anywhere near Richmond. With luck, you'll be past Baltimore.
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Old 10-13-2009, 06:54 PM   #241
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In 9 hours you won't be anywhere near Richmond. With luck, you'll be past Baltimore.
Maybe we should place some bets...... Or better yet start a poll!! LOL
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Old 10-13-2009, 08:27 PM   #242
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Sounds like the teacher needs to go to this site so as to understand some of the basic principles of polling:
http://www.notrain-nogain.org/Train/Exer/Num/poll.asp
The forum's results differ significantly from a state poll and from,
say, certain road associations previously mentioned who unanimously voted to send money to Winnfabs.
Yet again calling my profession into the argument. Will you please stop? How many times do I have to ask? Could you just stop? Seriously?

Let me explain something in the simplest terms for you and elchase. This has been said over and over again on this forum. While I understand that you see no validity in any poll taken on this site I see even less validity on a statewide poll. The poll was taken statewide as you have said. Why the heck would we or anyone care what a resident of lets say Salem New Hampshire thinks about a speed limit on a lake they have never been to? Explain to me why those people should have ANY say on what recreation takes place on this lake?

Do you have any faith that if I created a poll restricting the uses of sailboats on the lake that the results would come back in your favor? Especially if the question was posed to non boaters who have never visited this lake? Do you understand that concept? Is it really that hard to understand? I am reasonably confident that I could create a question that could be posed to the general New Hampshire public that would result in showing that New Hampshire residents favor some sort of restrictions on sailboats.

Here is another example that may help you and elchase: Most non boaters that visit my camp are ABSOLUTELY BLOWN AWAY that I drive my boat at night without headlights! So tell me how hard would it be for me to create a poll that asks "Should all boats should be required to use headlights on the lake at night," and get results that favor headlight use on the lake?

Does that example make it more clear for you? I'm in teacher mode now.

So while you put stock in your statewide poll, I'll put stock in the poll answered by boaters who boat on the actual lake in question. While both polls have their flaws I'd rather see a Lake Winnipesaukee ONLY poll done by the Citizen or another paper. The first question should be do you or have you used Lake Winnipesaukee for recreational purposes. If the answer is no then it is an immediate disconnect.

Your constant mention of my profession in your comments is tiresome as I mentioned already. But I will consider this a teachable moment for you. Your understanding and interpretation of polls and polling is limited at best. Your faith in the statewide poll is confirmation of this fact.

Furthermore the polls on this site are of course not "official" in any sense of the word. I do understand that this is just an informal survey. My point is that I put just as much stock into this poll as you do in the statewide poll. At least I know that the replies on this site come from boaters. That is FAR more than I can say about the statewide poll.
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Old 10-13-2009, 09:05 PM   #243
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The polls are up to the honesty and integrety of everyone on the forum. I have faith in all. Those that choose to cheat the system are the handicaped low-life loosers. Anyone that takes devious actions to gain any point not only hurt all but will eventually eat away at their spiritual peace. There is no value in tryng to taint the results and cast suspiscion on the process. Let the polititions continue to lie and cheat us but let the boaters enjoy the sport as free as possible! Get back to the real statistics that are creating the problem and make sure the media starts to report solid facts that point out the b'head problems.
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Old 10-13-2009, 10:55 PM   #244
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Quote:
how hard would it be for me to create a poll that asks "Should all boats should be required to use headlights on the lake at night," and get results that favor headlight use on the lake?
I REALLY like that idea. I wish we had a statewide platform to do it just to prove the point!
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Old 10-14-2009, 06:42 AM   #245
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Yet again calling my profession into the argument. Will you please stop? How many times do I have to ask? Could you just stop? Seriously?
Let me explain something in the simplest terms for you and elchase.
Let me explain something in the simplest terms for you. Your profession tweaked the Turtle family's interest last year when you opined at length about the validity of forum polls. We were intrigued that someone(a teacher, no less) who spelled poll incorrectly (no, it's not spelled pole) felt so entitled to rant about whether a self poll on a boating forum might indeed have any significant validity. Since that time, the only progress you have made in this arena has been that you learned how to spell the word correctly.

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Your constant mention of my profession in your comments is tiresome as I mentioned already.
Less entertaining than the poll/pole spelling difficulties is the following. We have all heard mention on this forum that perhaps there is a correlation between those who are dominating, intimidating, and rude on the forum and those who might act similarly on the lake. This kind of behavior from you directed at anyone who disagrees with your beliefs, whether it be me, EL, Evenstar (really nasty stuff you unleashed at her...you should be ashamed), or anyone else I suppose can be tolerated...we're adults and can look after ourselves. What concerns me is...well...do you treat your students in such a belittling manner? These kids might have no other choice than to endure such behavior. Kids are impressionable...what they see is sometimes what they imitate.
Finally I would add that your extreme dependence on those irritating laughing smiley faces to be able to express your thoughts seems odd (given your profession). It brings to mind the expression "Why can't Johnny read"?
So...this is why I have invoked your profession as being relevant to this discussion.
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Old 10-14-2009, 07:02 AM   #246
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Maybe we should place some bets...... Or better yet start a poll!! LOL
I have driven to Atlanta several times from NH. Traveling at around 70 MPH, I have found that Richmond is almost always 12 hours away. Depends on time of day of course.
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Old 10-14-2009, 07:20 AM   #247
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I have driven to Atlanta several times from NH. Traveling at around 70 MPH, I have found that Richmond is almost always 12 hours away. Depends on time of day of course.
Leaving at 3 AM.. hoping to make it thru NY early... Will have to see.. My buddy has done it 8 times in the past 3 years and normally he is 9 - 10... Will let you know..

I thought we were going to start a poll??? But of course it won't be valid if it doesn't go my way..
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Old 10-14-2009, 07:57 AM   #248
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Originally Posted by Turtle Boy View Post
Let me explain something in the simplest terms for you. Your profession tweaked the Turtle family's interest last year when you opined at length about the validity of forum polls. We were intrigued that someone(a teacher, no less) who spelled poll incorrectly (no, it's not spelled pole) felt so entitled to rant about whether a self poll on a boating forum might indeed have any significant validity. Since that time, the only progress you have made in this arena has been that you learned how to spell the word correctly.



Less entertaining than the poll/pole spelling difficulties is the following. We have all heard mention on this forum that perhaps there is a correlation between those who are dominating, intimidating, and rude on the forum and those who might act similarly on the lake. This kind of behavior from you directed at anyone who disagrees with your beliefs, whether it be me, EL, Evenstar (really nasty stuff you unleashed at her...you should be ashamed), or anyone else I suppose can be tolerated...we're adults and can look after ourselves. What concerns me is...well...do you treat your students in such a belittling manner? These kids might have no other choice than to endure such behavior. Kids are impressionable...what they see is sometimes what they imitate.
Finally I would add that your extreme dependence on those irritating laughing smiley faces to be able to express your thoughts seems odd (given your profession). It brings to mind the expression "Why can't Johnny read"?
So...this is why I have invoked your profession as being relevant to this discussion.
As a part time college professor and business statistic was my profession for 40 years, I beg to differ.................

Sorry, but I must add validity to our profession.
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Old 10-14-2009, 08:18 AM   #249
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The polls are up to the honesty and integrety (sic) of everyone on the forum.
You mean the scofflaws who brag about ignoring and breaking our boating laws, or the cheerleaders who high-five them for it?

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Yet again calling my profession into the argument. Will you please stop? How many times do I have to ask? Could you just stop? Seriously?
You call others much much worse, and refuse to stop when they ask. You called me a liar (and never gave that promised apology). Why are you embarrassed by your profession? Teaching is a noble vocation. Wear the title with pride. It is your logic (and spelling) that you should be embarrassed about.

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Why the heck would we or anyone care what a resident of lets (sic) say Salem New Hampshire thinks about a speed limit on a lake they have never been to? Explain to me why those people should have ANY say on what recreation takes place on this lake?
Simple, because Winnipesaukee is THEIR lake. Why do retired people go to town meetings to vote on the school budget? Why do landowners who don't hunt post their land? Why did Northerners object to slavery? People have a right (and duty) to opine about and take part in the management of the things in which they have a vested interest. And contrary to your opinion, a vested interest in a lake does not require a Boater's Certificate. Every citizen of NH is effected by the goings-on at Lake Winnipesaukee. If you cannot appreciate that, then you really may be in the wrong profession.

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I am reasonably confident that I could create a question that could be posed to the general New Hampshire public that would result in showing that New Hampshire residents favor some sort of restrictions on sailboats.
There has already been one...the same ARG poll. It applies equally to ALL boats. The Lake's owners favor (by 83% to 9%, with a +/-3% margin of error), that sail boats cannot go over 45MPH. I respect and abide by that. If polled, I'm sure that NH's residents would probably be near unanimous in support of our existing inclusion of sailors in our DUI law. And I respect and abide by that. I have no problem with reasonable limits on sailing, and I accept what society decides those reasonable limits should be. I would not want to be out their doing something that offends or endangers the rest of society. Maybe that's just me. And I recognize that "society" in NH includes ALL of NH's citizens, even if they live in Salem. What you want is akin to polling NAMBLA and asking if it is ok to sleep with little boys, and saying, "Why the heck would we or anyone care what a heterosexual woman thinks about man-boy love?

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Most non boaters that visit my camp are ABSOLUTELY BLOWN AWAY that I drive my boat at night without headlights!
If 83% of Winnipesaukee's owners wanted boats to have headlights at night, I would be the first to have headlights installed, even if the law did not require. But maybe that's just me. I prefer to fit into society rather than buck it. But based on the posts we see in these Anti-Speed Limit threads, even if the law was changed to require headlights, many of you would be driving around with your headlights shut-off, for no reason except to buck society, and bragging about it on this forum, and the rest would be high-fiving you. Then when one of you killed someone or drove aground, you'd excuse it because he was drunk.

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Originally Posted by hazelnut View Post
So while you put stock in your statewide poll, I'll put stock in the poll answered by boaters
It has nothing to do with "stock". It is purely statistics. I can't believe a teacher, of all people, cannot understand statistics. Do you skip over the evolution chapters in your science books and give your kids hand-outs about intelligent design too?

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Your understanding and interpretation of polls and polling is limited at best. Your faith in the statewide poll is confirmation of this fact.
Wow. This one is going in the Whacky Post HOF. Now I'm really glad I sent my kids to private school.

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Would you support some form of additional tax or fee to support the Marine Patrol in efforts specifically targeted to stop BUI and obvious dangerous violations on the water?
I think the fines from DUI, speed limit, and other boating law violations should be given back directly to the MP. At the present, some guy in Salem who has never even boated on Lake Winnipesaukee is helping to pay for our MP enforcement (as he should, since he is an equal owner of the lake), but it is always fairer to society when the violators of our laws are forced to pay for law enforcement, IMO. It inspires law enforcement to do their jobs, and it reduces taxes (statewide).
 
Old 10-14-2009, 08:19 AM   #250
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so anyone taking bets on the driving time?
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Old 10-14-2009, 09:12 AM   #251
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The last two posts by Turtleboy and elchase do nothing but further my points. The ironic part is that they are patting themselves on the back for well thought out informative posts. The reality is that both of you come off less and less intelligent with each post and as usual regress to snippiness and personal attacks. You have no new information and your interpretation of the old information is comical. The headlight analogy was used puposefully as a ludicrous example. The fact that you would consider the adoption of the use of headlights IF a law was passed further proves your limited knowledge of boating as a whole. The fact that you don't understand that headlight use at night would pose a significant safety hazzard perplexes me. The sole reason I used the example. To me it immediately discredits any opinion you may have related to boating.

Thanks for doing nothing but proving my points over and over again.
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Old 10-14-2009, 09:24 AM   #252
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. This kind of behavior from you directed at anyone who disagrees with your beliefs, whether it be me, EL, Evenstar (really nasty stuff you unleashed at her...you should be ashamed), or anyone else I suppose can be tolerated...we're adults and can look after ourselves. What concerns me is...well...do you treat your students in such a belittling manner? These kids might have no other choice than to endure such behavior. Kids are impressionable...what they see is sometimes what they imitate.
Finally I would add that your extreme dependence on those irritating laughing smiley faces to be able to express your thoughts seems odd (given your profession). It brings to mind the expression "Why can't Johnny read"?
So...this is why I have invoked your profession as being relevant to this discussion.
You can not just state something and wish it to be true. I unleashed NOTHING nasty on anyone on here ever. Go ahead and prove it. I said nothing on here to anyone at any time that wasn't said directly at me.

Again you call in to the argument how I do my job. It has no relevance on this forum. I am filing a formal complaint to the moderator as we speak. Constantly calling my job into the argument while questioning my intelligence crosses the line I'm afraid.

Here are a few smiley faces for you TB: I use them to show emotion. They are called emoticons. Look it up. Uusually used to show how I am feeling when I type the message. For example the smiley face: Usually shows that I am happy and having fun while I type. Like this:
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Old 10-14-2009, 09:41 AM   #253
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so anyone taking bets on the driving time?
OCD, I am going to jump in the fray and take your bet, because you will be hitting NJ at 7:00am and you will lose that additional half hour putting you over 10 hours.

If I am right I would like a ride in that scary GFBL you have (I will hopefully be docked accross from from the Naswa at Channel). If you win I owe you a few cold ones.

The highway speed is faster than average, all smaller roads are average (you are towing a boat)

Time Mile Instruction For Toward
Summary: 630.4 miles (9 hours, 32 minutes)
3:00 AM 0.0 Depart Concord on US-202 [US-3] (North) 142 yds
3:00 AM 0.1 Turn RIGHT (East) onto SR-9 [Loudon Rd] 0.2 mi
3:00 AM 0.3 Take Ramp (RIGHT) onto I-93 [Everett Tpke] 3.4 mi I-93
3:04 AM 3.6 *Toll road* Stay on I-93 [Everett Tpke] (South-East) 7.8 mi
3:11 AM 11.5 Keep LEFT onto I-293 [Everett Tpke] 8.1 mi I-293 / Everett Turnpike South / Manchester / Nashua
3:19 AM 19.6 *Toll road* Road name changes to Everett Tpke 9.9 mi Everett Turnpike South / Merrimack / Nashua
3:29 AM 29.4 At exit 10, stay on Everett Tpke (South) 3.4 mi
3:33 AM 32.9 Road name changes to US-3 [Everett Tpke] 14.0 mi
3:40 AM 39.7 Entering Massachusetts
3:47 AM 46.9 At exit 32, keep RIGHT onto Ramp 0.2 mi RT-4 / Westford / Chelmsford
3:47 AM 47.1 At roundabout, take the SECOND exit onto SR-4 [North Rd] 1.5 mi RT-4 / Chelmsford / Acton
3:50 AM 48.6 Take Ramp (RIGHT) onto I-495 22.6 mi I-495 / Littleton / Worcester
4:10 AM 71.2 At exit 25B, take Ramp (RIGHT) onto I-290 20.0 mi I-290 / Worcester
4:26 AM 91.3 At exit 8, turn RIGHT onto Ramp 0.1 mi RT-12 S / Webster
4:26 AM 91.4 Turn LEFT (South) onto Oxford St N 164 yds RT-12 S / Oxford / Webster
4:26 AM 91.5 Bear RIGHT (South-West) onto SR-12 [Southbridge St] 0.1 mi
4:27 AM 91.6 Turn RIGHT onto Ramp 0.4 mi I-90 / Mass Pike / Springfield / Boston
4:27 AM 91.9 Keep LEFT to stay on Ramp 0.4 mi I-90
4:29 AM 92.4 *Toll road* Merge onto I-90 [Mass Pike] 11.4 mi
4:38 AM 103.8 At exit 9, take Ramp (RIGHT) onto I-84 [Wilbur Cross Hwy] 41.6 mi I-84 / US-20 / Hartford / New York City
4:45 AM 112.2 Entering Connecticut
5:15 AM 145.4 At exit 57, take Ramp (LEFT) onto SR-15 [Wilbur Cross Hwy] 1.1 mi CT-15 / I-91 S / Charter Oak Br / N. Y. City
5:16 AM 146.5 Road name changes to US-5 [SR-15] 0.8 mi
5:17 AM 147.3 At exit 86, take Ramp (RIGHT) onto I-91 36.5 mi I-91 / New Haven / N. Y. City
5:47 AM 183.9 Take Ramp (LEFT) onto I-95 [Governor John Davis Lodge Tpke] 64.8 mi I-95 / N.Y. City
6:34 AM 231.8 Entering New York
6:50 AM 248.6 At exit 6A, turn RIGHT onto Ramp 0.2 mi I-95 / I-678 / Cross Bronx Exp / Geo Washington Br / Whitestone Br
6:50 AM 248.8 Take Ramp (LEFT) onto I-95 [Cross Bronx Expy] 7.8 mi
6:57 AM 255.3 Entering New Jersey
6:58 AM 256.6 Keep LEFT onto I-95 Express Ln [New Jersey Tpke] 2.6 mi I-95 EXPRESS / New Jersey Turnpike / I-80 / Garden State Parkway
7:01 AM 259.2 Road name changes to I-95 [New Jersey Tpke] 1.5 mi I-95 / New Jersey Turnpike / US-46 / The Ridgefields
7:02 AM 260.7 *Toll road* Stay on I-95 [New Jersey Tpke] (South) 48.8 mi
7:44 AM 309.4 *Toll road* Road name changes to New Jersey Tpke 68.0 mi
8:41 AM 377.5 *Toll road* Road name changes to US-40 [New Jersey Tpke] 0.5 mi
8:41 AM 378.0 *Toll road* Road name changes to I-295 [US-40] 0.4 mi
8:42 AM 378.4 Stay on I-295 [US-40] (West) 5.2 mi
8:42 AM 379.2 Entering Delaware
8:47 AM 383.6 Turn LEFT onto Ramp 0.3 mi I-95
8:47 AM 383.8 Keep LEFT to stay on Ramp 0.5 mi I-95
8:48 AM 384.3 At exit 5, take Ramp (RIGHT) onto I-95 [Delaware Tpke] 10.1 mi I-95 / Del. Tpke. / Baltimore
8:58 AM 394.5 *Toll road* *Tollbooth* Stay on I-95 [Delaware Tpke] (West) 1.3 mi
8:59 AM 395.8 Entering Maryland
8:59 AM 395.8 Stay on I-95 [John F Kennedy Memorial Hwy] (West) 48.2 mi
9:38 AM 444.0 Keep LEFT onto I-895 [Harbor Tunnel Throughway] 15.1 mi I-895 / Harbor Tunnel Thruway / Annapolis / Bay Bridge
9:53 AM 459.1 Merge onto I-95 18.2 mi
10:08 AM 477.4 At exit 27-25, turn RIGHT onto Ramp 0.4 mi I-495 / US-1 / College Park / Silver Spring
10:08 AM 477.7 At exit 27, take Ramp (RIGHT) onto I-495 [I-495 Outerloop] 30.1 mi I-495 / Silver Spring
10:24 AM 493.5 Entering Virginia
10:38 AM 507.9 At exit 57A, take Ramp (RIGHT) onto I-95 85.1 mi I-95 / Richmond
11:53 AM 593.0 At exit 84A, take Ramp (LEFT) onto I-295 14.7 mi I-295 / Rocky Mt NC
12:04 PM 607.6 At exit 28A, take Ramp (RIGHT) onto I-64 4.9 mi I-64 / Norfolk / VA Beach
12:10 PM 612.5 At exit 205, turn RIGHT onto Ramp 0.2 mi VA-33 / VA-249 / US-60 / Bottoms Bridge / Quinton
12:10 PM 612.7 Take Ramp (RIGHT) onto SR-33 [New Kent Hwy] 0.3 mi VA-33 / US-60 / Bottoms Bridge
12:11 PM 613.0 Road name changes to New Kent Hwy 10 yds
12:11 PM 613.0 Bear LEFT (South-East) onto US-60 [Pocahontas Trail] 9.6 mi
12:21 PM 622.6 Turn RIGHT (South) onto SR-155 [N Courthouse Rd] 65 yds
12:22 PM 622.6 Turn LEFT (East) onto SR-155 [Boulevard Rd] 131 yds
12:22 PM 622.7 Bear RIGHT (East) onto SR-155 [S Courthouse Rd] 2.1 mi
12:25 PM 624.8 Keep STRAIGHT onto SR-155 [Courthouse Rd] 5.3 mi
12:31 PM 630.1 Road name changes to Courthouse Rd 0.2 mi
12:32 PM 630.4 Arrive Charles City

SUMMARY
Driving distance: 630.4 miles
Trip duration: 9 hours, 32 minutes
Driving time: 9 hours, 32 minutes
Cost: $122.69
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Old 10-14-2009, 09:43 AM   #254
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9 hours will put me in Richmond VA.. I hope.. :-)

Going a bit out of Richmond in a place called Charles City.. Maybe get a ride on a 37 AThunder with twin 525's..
Google maps says that is will take you 10hrs 15mins if you go I-95 S and 11hrs 25 mins if you go I-90 W
Therefore I think it will take you 10 hrs if you go I-95 S.

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Old 10-14-2009, 09:49 AM   #255
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You can not just state something and wish it to be true. I unleashed NOTHING nasty on anyone on here ever. Go ahead and prove it. I said nothing on here to anyone at any time that wasn't said directly at me.

Again you call in to the argument how I do my job. It has no relevance on this forum. I am filing a formal complaint to the moderator as we speak. Constantly calling my job into the argument while questioning my intelligence crosses the line I'm afraid.

Here are a few smiley faces for you TB: I use them to show emotion. They are called emoticons. Look it up. Uusually used to show how I am feeling when I type the message. For example the smiley face: Usually shows that I am happy and having fun while I type. Like this:
Question someone's intelligence? You could never do that. Here's some Hazelnutese from May, '08:
"Not only are YOU self centered but you fail at comprehension.
I'll slow it down for you.....
Sorry I'll never ever agree that kayaking in the broads is wise speed limit or no speed limit. I think it is dumb actually".

Calling in the moderator??? Boy, you sure can dish it out, but when someone else gives it back...well, you run for cover behind mommy's skirt.
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Old 10-14-2009, 09:51 AM   #256
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so I heard from a friend that they only have 6 radar guns that have been issued to the MP due to budget cut backs. But only 4 officers are currently trained to use them. Anyone know if that is true?
In one of the SL hearings, one of the Winfabs 'fat cat' offered to donate money for radar guns. There is no evidence of that.

I do know that the marine patrol budget was cut and that buying laser guns and training of officers have limited the hirings. I will try to find the article in the Concord Monitor.
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Old 10-14-2009, 10:00 AM   #257
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Question someone's intelligence? You could never do that. Here's some Hazelnutese from May, '08:
"Not only are YOU self centered but you fail at comprehension.
I'll slow it down for you.....
Sorry I'll never ever agree that kayaking in the broads is wise speed limit or no speed limit. I think it is dumb actually".

Calling in the moderator??? Boy, you sure can dish it out, but when someone else gives it back...well, you run for cover behind mommy's skirt.
THAT'S IT?!?!? THAT'S ALL YOU'VE GOT?

Wow I am such a jerk! ha ha ha ha

Yes it is dumb to kayak inthe broads. That is my opinion. I stick to it. What else did I say? Oh yeah I called someone self centered and told them they failed at comprehension.

Wow. So that opens me up to ridicule and allows you to use my profession to belittle me in an argument you are failing at? I am sorry to disagree with you but... I do. Why don't you share with us what you do for a living?
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Old 10-14-2009, 10:02 AM   #258
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Thumbs up Bing Map with Clearflow technology

I recently started using this for directions and find it pretty slick! Try it!

It calculated from Moultonboro, NH to Charles City, VA as a 693.3 mile trip in 10 hrs and 47 mins. That's my bet!
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Old 10-14-2009, 10:11 AM   #259
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Google maps says that is will take you 10hrs 15mins if you go I-95 S and 11hrs 25 mins if you go I-90 W
Therefore I think it will take you 10 hrs if you go I-95 S.

You are going on the assumption I am leaving from Moultonboro and that I drive the speed Limit
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Old 10-14-2009, 10:15 AM   #260
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Well, I put in Concord as you did not state where you were leaving from, but that does make a difference. You have to be honest with us OCD, otherwise this could get heated.

I also put in a faster than the speed limit assumption, but knowing how you feel about your boat I figured you would not be flying around on the side roads. I have a picture of you in my head crossing over the VA line with 30 min to go to deadline, boat fish tailing around corners to make in under the gun. Remember most trailer tires are not rated for speeds above 65, if you want to go faster you need to increase your tire pressure to help prevent a failure, that would really slow you down, but I will not hold something like that against your time, we will deduct for things like that.
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Old 10-14-2009, 10:23 AM   #261
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Well, I put in Concord as you did not state where you were leaving from, but that does make a difference. You have to be honest with us OCD, otherwise this could get heated.

I also put in a faster than the speed limit assumption, but knowing how you feel about your boat I figured you would not be flying around on the side roads. I have a picture of you in my head crossing over the VA line with 30 min to go to deadline, boat fish tailing around corners to make in under the gun. Remember most trailer tires are not rated for speeds above 65, if you want to go faster you need to increase your tire pressure to help prevent a failure, that would really slow you down, but I will not hold something like that against your time, we will deduct for things like that.
It won't get heated unless you start a poll that doesn't go my way. Then I am going to call schnanagans..

You are right.... I won't be flying especially since I am towing... However the way home could be interesting.

Already pumped up the tires to the max... I am leaving around 3AM.. hoping to arrive by mid afternoon. I have a GPS but I am doing a AAA Trip Tix to make sure I don't end up in downtown Manhattan. Going around the city to avoid traffic. Gotta hand it to AAA. These trip tix reports are great..

Hitting Atlantic City on the way back to catch the Pats game. They should love me there in my Brady Jersey...
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Old 10-14-2009, 10:29 AM   #262
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Our Founding Fathers were brilliant in the design of this nation. They had the insight to set this country up as a nation of states. Each state would be independent and able to decide their own policies and laws based on its individual needs.

That same model SHOULD be used here. I would suggest that if you have people with little to no stake in the outcome they will vote either selfishly or out of ignorance. If the same people that were polled for their speed limit input were asked other questions like:

Should headlights be required at night? (Brilliant example Hazelnut)
Should boat registrations be tripled to help gap the budget deficit?
Should lakeshore property taxes be tripled?
Should all boats that produce greenhouse gasses be banned on inland waterways?

People with no stake in the lakes region would probably vote yes to all these questions. If you wanted to do a poll that gave an accurate barometer of the issues you would only ask the people who had a stake in the outcome. In this case the correct sample would be residents of the towns that boarder the lake and all registered boaters.

Somebody once said ďOnly tax payers should be able to voteĒ. While that comment seems outrageous at first glance, think about where we might be as a country if that was the reality.
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Old 10-14-2009, 10:35 AM   #263
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Already pumped up the tires to the max... I am leaving around 3AM.. hoping to arrive by mid afternoon. I have a GPS but I am doing a AAA Trip Tix to make sure I don't end up in downtown Manhattan. Going around the city to avoid traffic. Gotta hand it to AAA. These trip tix reports are great..
I use to do AAA trip tixs. It's a bitch to program the GPS with that info. Bing maps with clearflow is the next best thing. And you can download the directions into your GPS! Give it a try!
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Old 10-14-2009, 10:48 AM   #264
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THAT'S IT?!?!? THAT'S ALL YOU'VE GOT?

Wow I am such a jerk! ha ha ha ha
The fact that TB had to go back a year and a half through all your threads to find that makes it even funnier! Someone has too much time on their hands.
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Old 10-14-2009, 10:50 AM   #265
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I use to do AAA trip tixs. It's a bitch to program the GPS with that info. Bing maps with clearflow is the next best thing. And you can download the directions into your GPS! Give it a try!
Bing Maps is a spin off of the program that I used above to generate directions. It called Microsoft Streets and Trips. The online version on the Bing site has left out so many of the options that make streets and trips great. It is way better than google maps (MapQuest) as it actually shows real roads and does not send you down roads that no longer exist or that do not actually connect. I do not know if Bing does this but on streets and trips you can update current construction info as well and detore around if needed. The fuel cost estimator is cool as well and is fairly accurate as long as you know what your total average would be.
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Old 10-14-2009, 11:23 AM   #266
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The fact that TB had to go back a year and a half through all your threads to find that makes it even funnier! Someone has too much time on their hands.
Actually, I started on the last page (page 20 I believe). But all you have to do is go back to July/August of this year!
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Old 10-14-2009, 11:26 AM   #267
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I unleashed NOTHING nasty on anyone on here ever.
Hazelnut, you just recently called me a liar. You promised to apologize, but were not woman enough to do it when shown you were wrong. You have time and again shown yourself to be nasty and insulting, then like the others in your group, you tack a few smiley faces at the end of your posts so you can later pretend you were just "razzing" (whatever that means).
The bottom line is that 83% (+/- 3%) of the registered voters of NH (who own the lake, pay for its management, pay higher taxes when it is mismanaged and tourism drops, pay lower taxes when it is better managed and tourism rises, elect the State's legislators, and may or may not use the lake for any one of a wide variety of purposes) want a speed limit on it, and their votes are THE most important influence on the legislators from all around the state...even from Salem. We cannot limit to just votes of boating citizens or to the legislators representing them...not in this country. And the other bottom line is that you guys have polled yourselves and can't even agree amongst yourselves whether we should have any laws at all or should just leave it up to people with no common sense to make their own choices about what is appropriate. Good luck taking that to Concord and good luck in the independent country that you guys form because you need to drive your boats over 45MPH. Just don't base your economy on tourism.
 
Old 10-14-2009, 11:31 AM   #268
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[QUOTE=Turtle Boy;109037]What concerns me is...well...do you treat your students in such a belittling manner? These kids might have no other choice than to endure such behavior. Kids are impressionable...what they see is sometimes what they imitate.

I'm sure hazelnut doesn't have to treat his students the way he treats you. I'm sure they are more mature than you are. Did I spell everything correctly by the way?
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Old 10-14-2009, 11:32 AM   #269
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Bing Maps is a spin off of the program that I used above to generate directions. It called Microsoft Streets and Trips. The online version on the Bing site has left out so many of the options that make streets and trips great. It is way better than google maps (MapQuest) as it actually shows real roads and does not send you down roads that no longer exist or that do not actually connect. I do not know if Bing does this but on streets and trips you can update current construction info as well and detore around if needed. The fuel cost estimator is cool as well and is fairly accurate as long as you know what your total average would be.
I will check that out thanks... I won't be on this weekend so hopefully things don't get out of hand with me gone.. LOL
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Old 10-14-2009, 11:32 AM   #270
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You are going on the assumption I am leaving from Moultonboro and that I drive the speed Limit
Even though I am betting against you, I would strongly suggest that you avoid going I-95 the whole way. It is a miserable road through CT without traffic, but you will be hitting the NYC area in the morning rush. I-84 is your friend.
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Old 10-14-2009, 11:35 AM   #271
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Even though I am betting against you, I would strongly suggest that you avoid going I-95 the whole way. It is a miserable road through CT without traffic, but you will be hitting the NYC area in the morning rush. I-84 is your friend.
Truer words were never spoken.

I could beat you down there from here using that route OCD, been there, done that. I95 makes life miserable.
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Old 10-14-2009, 11:42 AM   #272
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The bottom line is that 83% (+/- 3%) of the registered voters of NH
Show me the money...........................
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Old 10-14-2009, 11:43 AM   #273
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You are going on the assumption I am leaving from Moultonboro and that I drive the speed Limit
Don't be a scofflaw!
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Old 10-14-2009, 11:52 AM   #274
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[QUOTE=elchase;109110]Hazelnut, you just recently called me a liar.

Oh, boo hoo! Did you go run and tell your mommy? You sound like my 5 year old. Actually, my 5 year old can take it!
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Old 10-14-2009, 11:54 AM   #275
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gtagrip,

I say OCD pulls it off.

I THINK he was joking about the speed limit, he is pulling a LARGE boat.
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Old 10-14-2009, 11:59 AM   #276
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gtagrip,

I say OCD pulls it off.

I THINK he was joking about the speed limit, he is pulling a LARGE boat.
As I about him being a scofflaw. I just didn't want him to let others know about his any mis-doings! We all know how they feel about that.
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Old 10-14-2009, 12:06 PM   #277
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Did you go run and tell your mommy?
My mother just died last month after a long and painful battle with cancer. I'm guessing after all the investigating of me that you guys did that you knew of this. You are a real class act.
 
Old 10-14-2009, 12:11 PM   #278
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Unhappy Sorry for your loss.

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My mother just died last month after a long and painful battle with cancer. I'm guessing after all the investigating of me that you guys did that you knew of this. You are a real class act.
If I had seen this in the local papers, I would have send condolence.
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Old 10-14-2009, 12:12 PM   #279
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My mother just died last month after a long and painful battle with cancer. I'm guessing after all the investigating of me that you guys did that you knew of this. You are a real class act.
Sorry to hear about your mother. I re-tract the "mommy comment. But actually, I have better things to do than investigate you or who you are. I could actually careless.
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Old 10-14-2009, 12:28 PM   #280
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All bets are OFF if it RAINS. NB
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Old 10-14-2009, 12:47 PM   #281
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My mother just died last month after a long and painful battle with cancer. I'm guessing after all the investigating of me that you guys did that you knew of this. You are a real class act.
elchase,

What an awful tragedy. As many have said Cancer is an ugly thing and it can be devastating to families. I myself am a former President of my local Chapter of the American Cancer Society. I was chairperson of an event that raised over $200,000 during my tenure. I witnessed many a heartbreak with relation to Cancer. Fortunately I was able to witness many triumph's as well.

With that said this statment: "You are a real class act. " that you made towards gtagrip was a bit harsh. I am sure he had no idea and I am sure he would not have said it if he knew.

Your posting buddy TurtleBoy made a comment about my mother in an earlier post on this thread. Is he a real class act? He has no idea with regard to my mothers health or wellbeing.

I am sure your comment was made out of passion but I am also just as sure that gtagrip meant nothing personal. Jus as I believe TurtleBoy was only using a saying when he referred to me "hiding behind my mommy's skirt."

You two (elchase and Turlteboy) claim to be above the fray and victims in all of this. My thoughts lean towards, you reap what you sow and that you are not innocent in all of this.
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Old 10-14-2009, 12:49 PM   #282
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I wonder how the ARG poll would have turned out if the results from the MP speed survey had been referenced in the survey question?

It's very surprising that none of those findings were included...
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Old 10-14-2009, 12:53 PM   #283
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According to American Research Group only 64% of 600 people interviewed by phone is in favor of the speed limit. ARG claims a margin of error of only 9%???? Not all of the 600 folks are registered voters.

According to the 2000 Census found on nh.gov website there are 1,235,786 folks in NH. rule out those that are under 18 (309,401) you have 926,385 potential voters. According to Wikipedia as of 2002 25.6% of the registered voters are Democrats, 36.7% are Republicans and the rest (37.7%) are 'independents'.

So my point is how can less than 600 folks represent the consensus of 926,385 potential voters? ARG did not say where these folks are located. My best guess is that ARG is located in Manchester and I can bet you 'rita that those polled are in the greater Manchester area.

Take a look at this blog regarding the credibility of ARG.
http://ajacksonian.blogspot.com/2007...rch-group.html

So where did the 83% of the NH voters come from?????
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Old 10-14-2009, 01:27 PM   #284
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All bets are OFF if it RAINS. NB
I'm watching that closely..... Not only that but if it rains there goes my Sat. as well... Will have to pull the engine as well as detail the entire boat....... Again!... lol.. She will be rocking next year...

Next year we will definately meet up and settle the bet...

Better yet lets meet in the middle of the broads and enjoy some fun runs. See if we can get a group of us together...
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Old 10-14-2009, 01:29 PM   #285
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The ARG poll question was:

Do you favor or oppose a law that would impose speed limits for boats on large lakes in New Hampshire?

Favor: 64 Oppose 22 Undecided 14.

An interesting point:
29% of republicans were against a speed limit while 8% of Democrats opposed it.

The poll question did not try to educate the sample in any way. Nor did it give specifics of what a speed limit should be. How valid is an opinion if the person being asked has little to no knowledge of the subject.

When that happens you get answers like this:

“I personally believe that U.S. Americans are unable to do so because, uh, some, people out there in our nation don't have maps and, uh, I believe that our, uh, education like such as, uh, South Africa and uh, the Iraq, everywhere like such as, and, I believe that they should, our education over here in the U.S. should help the U.S., uh, or, uh, should help South Africa and should help the Iraq and the Asian countries, so we will be able to build up our future, for our ….” Caitlin Upton
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Old 10-14-2009, 01:37 PM   #286
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Originally Posted by BroadHopper View Post
According to American Research Group only 64% of 600 people interviewed by phone is in favor of the speed limit. ARG claims a margin of error of only 9%???? Not all of the 600 folks are registered voters.

According to the 2000 Census found on nh.gov website there are 1,235,786 folks in NH. rule out those that are under 18 (309,401) you have 926,385 potential voters. According to Wikipedia as of 2002 25.6% of the registered voters are Democrats, 36.7% are Republicans and the rest (37.7%) are 'independents'.

So my point is how can less than 600 folks represent the consensus of 926,385 potential voters? ARG did not say where these folks are located. My best guess is that ARG is located in Manchester and I can bet you 'rita that those polled are in the greater Manchester area.

Take a look at this blog regarding the credibility of ARG.
http://ajacksonian.blogspot.com/2007...rch-group.html

So where did the 83% of the NH voters come from?????
Interesting read- I have a hard time giving any business or professional organization any credibility when I see AOL email adresses such as those that ARG lists.
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Old 10-14-2009, 01:42 PM   #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadHopper View Post
According to American Research Group only 64% of 600 people interviewed by phone is in favor of the speed limit. ARG claims a margin of error of only 9%???? Not all of the 600 folks are registered voters.

According to the 2000 Census found on nh.gov website there are 1,235,786 folks in NH. rule out those that are under 18 (309,401) you have 926,385 potential voters. According to Wikipedia as of 2002 25.6% of the registered voters are Democrats, 36.7% are Republicans and the rest (37.7%) are 'independents'.

So my point is how can less than 600 folks represent the consensus of 926,385 potential voters? ARG did not say where these folks are located. My best guess is that ARG is located in Manchester and I can bet you 'rita that those polled are in the greater Manchester area.

Take a look at this blog regarding the credibility of ARG.
http://ajacksonian.blogspot.com/2007...rch-group.html

So where did the 83% of the NH voters come from?????
Thanks for the link. It further solidifies my position. I can't wait to hear how this one gets spun though.
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Old 10-14-2009, 02:06 PM   #288
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Thanks for the link. It further solidifies my position. I can't wait to hear how this one gets spun though.
Oh, Hazelnut, don't you know that this probably does not contain all the
facts.
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Old 10-14-2009, 02:36 PM   #289
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There must be another ARG poll; this one does not seem to be the one some of the proponents are citing.

I am disappointed OCD did not start a driving to VA poll, will he make it…or won’t he.
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Old 10-14-2009, 03:23 PM   #290
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Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
I wonder how the ARG poll would have turned out if the results from the MP speed survey had been referenced in the survey question? It's very surprising that none of those findings were included
I wonder if everyone in the state would have favored the speed limit (except the 8 of you or course) had it been taken right after the crash of the boat driven by the NHRBA president. It's very surprising that you don't mention that.

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So where did the 83% of the NH voters come from?????
You guys are right. I made a mistake and apologize. Sometimes my memory is not perfect. The 83% was Democrats. The percentage of total voters was "only" 78%. Thanks for sending me back to do the research that you guys seem so unable to do.

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Originally Posted by BroadHopper View Post
According to American Research Group only 64% of 600 people interviewed by phone is in favor of the speed limit. ARG claims a margin of error of only 9%????
Now you surely know that you are quoting the first of three polls and the one most favorable to you (even though still hugely unfavorable to you), don't you? You guys complained about the lack of specificity in this question so it was repeated with a more specific 45/25 question and the favorability rose significantly. Then you complained that the sample size was too small (although it was more than statistically sufficient already), so the sample size was increased and the favorability again increased significantly. You guys know all this, but keep quoting the first poll. WHY?
Their June '05 poll asked 600 randomly selected people across NH "Do you favor or oppose a state law placing a 45 miles per hour daytime and 25 miles per hour nighttime speed limit on boats operating on New Hampshire lakes?", to which the response was 63% in favor and 9% opposed. 9 voters favored a speed limit to every one that opposed.
Their February '07 poll asked 2000 randomly selected people across NH "Do you favor or oppose a law that places speed limits on boats on lakes in New Hampshire?". 78% of all voters (R and D) answered in support and only 18% opposed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadHopper View Post
So my point is how can less than 600 folks represent the consensus of 926,385 potential voters?
You claim to have been a professional statistician and you have to ask this question? Come on. Assuming as I must that you just made that up, if you have to ask this question, did you at least look at the link we discussed yesterday that explains all about the statistical accuracy of polls based on sample size, or do you only read stuff that you know is going to tell you what you want to hear? Did you even try to look into this yourself before you asked this question? Have you ever been to a casino? They must love to see "professional statisticians" like you coming.

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Originally Posted by BroadHopper View Post
Take a look at this blog regarding the credibility of ARG.
A blog? Your resorting to blogs now? Did you google ARG and find a negative result on the tenth page and decide that was good enough to entirely undermine ARG's credibility? Did you even read the blog? Do you know whose blog it is and what his history with ARG's founder is? "Mr. Bennett's attempt to hide a substantial amount of cash from his deceased father's estate that should have been used for the care of his mother, is this sort of individual trustworthy as a head of a polling organization?" Sounds like a hatchet job by a guy with a grudge, no? But just for the sake of argument let's assume this guy is teling the truth...please tell us how Mr. Bennett's family financial dealings disqualify the finding that 78% of NH voters favor a speed limit? Specifically? How is the accuracy of the poll done by his employees undone by Bennett's relationship with his mother?

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Originally Posted by Kracken View Post
The poll question did not try to educate the sample in any way. Nor did it give specifics of what a speed limit should be.
When that happens you get answers like this:
Do you know anything about polling? Just because Katy Couric and Dan Rather might try to "educate" people before they "poll" them does not mean it is proper. Polls are not meant to "educate", they are meant to measure. ARG did a very accurate job measuring the opinion of Granite Staters on this issue. And based on the rising favorability during a time when the State's newspapers were flooded with discussion on this topic, it's hard to artgue that people did not understand what they were saying.

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ďI personally believe that U.S. Americans are unable to do so because, uh, some, people out there in our nation don't have maps and, uh, I believe that our, uh, education like such as, uh, South Africa and uh, the Iraq, everywhere like such as, and, I believe that they should, our education over here in the U.S. should help the U.S., uh, or, uh, should help South Africa and should help the Iraq and the Asian countries, so we will be able to build up our future, for our Ö.Ē
I looked and looked, but simply can't find where any of the NH voters polled by ARG said this or anything so irrelevant. In fact, it has the intelligence, coherence, and grammar that one would more likely expect from one of you guys. But please tell us again how it relates to this discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hazelnut View Post
Thanks for the link. It further solidifies my position.
No surprise there. But I am surprised you guys are not just giving links to each other's posts to "solidify your positions". Have you thought of that? It makes as much sense.
 
Old 10-14-2009, 03:37 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by elchase View Post
I wonder if everyone in the state would have favored the speed limit (except the 8 of you or course) had it been taken right after the crash of the boat driven by the NHRBA president. It's very surprising that you don't mention that.
Hey that screws up my movie- The magnificent 8 just does not sound right. Who is the newest member on your S List???
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Old 10-14-2009, 03:53 PM   #292
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Originally Posted by elchase View Post
I wonder if everyone in the state would have favored the speed limit (except the 8 of you or course) had it been taken right after the crash of the boat driven by the NHRBA president. It's very surprising that you don't mention that.
Was that crash speed related? I forgot the outcome of the trial....
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Old 10-14-2009, 03:56 PM   #293
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Hey that screws up my movie- The magnificent 8 just does not sound right. Who is the newest member on your S List???
I was probably added as #8.

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Originally Posted by elchase
My mother just died last month after a long and painful battle with cancer. I'm guessing after all the investigating of me that you guys did that you knew of this. You are a real class act.
I am truly sorry for your loss. My wife is an Med Oncology certified RN so she deals with this on a daily basis. I am a patient at that facility as well for a non-cancer related issue, and see first hand the pain that cancer survivors go through, as well as the success some have at beating it.
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Old 10-14-2009, 03:58 PM   #294
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If I were not ignoring him I would have to write a very long post.
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Old 10-14-2009, 04:07 PM   #295
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If I were not ignoring him I would have to write a very long post.
Sorry, I HAD to reply. His reply was just spun so horribly it warranted a quick vacation from the ignore list....
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Old 10-14-2009, 04:12 PM   #296
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Originally Posted by elchase View Post
You claim to have been a professional statistician and you have to ask this question? Come on. Assuming as I must that you just made that up, if you have to ask this question, did you at least look at the link we discussed yesterday that explains all about the statistical accuracy of polls based on sample size, or do you only read stuff that you know is going to tell you what you want to hear? Did you even try to look into this yourself before you asked this question? Have you ever been to a casino? They must love to see "professional statisticians" like you coming.

A blog? Your resorting to blogs now? Did you google ARG and find a negative result on the tenth page and decide that was good enough to entirely undermine ARG's credibility? Did you even read the blog? Do you know whose blog it is and what his history with ARG's founder is? "Mr. Bennett's attempt to hide a substantial amount of cash from his deceased father's estate that should have been used for the care of his mother, is this sort of individual trustworthy as a head of a polling organization?" Sounds like a hatchet job by a guy with a grudge, no? But just for the sake of argument let's assume this guy is teling the truth...please tell us how Mr. Bennett's family financial dealings disqualify the finding that 78% of NH voters favor a speed limit? Specifically? How is the accuracy of the poll done by his employees undone by Bennett's relationship with his mother?
In the first paragraph, I did not make the numbers up. It is publish in the nh.gov website. If you can't find it, here is the link. Quit discrediting me.
http://www.nh.gov/oep/programs/DataC...CensusData.htm

In the second paragraph, I have searched and searched and have not found one positive blog or feedback regarding ARG. If you can find one, I will be more than happy to read it and take it into consideration.

What makes no sense if that how can 64% of those polled are in favor of the speed limit then 83% thinks 45/25 makes the lakes safer???? Does not make sense!

Show me the link to the 2007 poll that you are trying to tell me and I will believe you. ARG do not have that poll listed on their website. You need to back up what you say. Like I did.
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Old 10-14-2009, 06:55 PM   #297
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Get some sleep. Have a Safe Trip. Enjoy the DRIVE. NB
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Old 10-20-2009, 07:42 AM   #298
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Ok.... I'm Back.............. Yup definately longer then 9 hours.... Left at 3 AM, hit white out conditions on the Mass Pike surrounded by 18 wheelers.. Always a good time.. LOL..

Didn't know exactly where the rest area stops would be so I stopped a few more times then necessary to top off. (better be safe then sorry) and pretty much just kept driving.... It took 11 1/2 hours..... Needless to say I needed a few cocktails by the end of that ride.....

Headed back to Atlantic City Sat and left there yesterday.. Great times.. (maybe if I get motivated I will post some pictures later)

But OCD is safe and sound.. Even got a friends kid to wash and wax her before be put away for her hibernation.

Looks like I didn't miss too much here.
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Old 10-20-2009, 08:15 AM   #299
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that you had a safe trip. I can't imagine driving a white boat in white out conditions. People think you have a stealth boat! LOL!

Time to put my boat away. I'm looking for storage as I lost my barn in Hooksett. I rented out my home because I lost my job and moved into my condo in Laconia. The boat is stored outside and I prefer inside storage. A couple of places I looked but the door height is not tall enough to accomodate the boat.
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Old 10-20-2009, 08:22 AM   #300
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that you had a safe trip. I can't imagine driving a white boat in white out conditions. People think you have a stealth boat! LOL!

Time to put my boat away. I'm looking for storage as I lost my barn in Hooksett. I rented out my home because I lost my job and moved into my condo in Laconia. The boat is stored outside and I prefer inside storage. A couple of places I looked but the door height is not tall enough to accomodate the boat.
I store my other boats at independent marina. Safe and reasonible on the rates. Check that out. Not sure if there is a time limit on when it had to be there though or availability.. Just a thought.

Yes 4 am, snow, tired, 18 wheelers = NOT FUN!
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