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Old 11-20-2009, 08:27 AM   #1
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Default Final Statements

Before suspending the speed limit debates on this site indefinitely I will allow each member one post to make a statement.

This thread is intended for final thoughts about the speed limit law, not to attack, ridicule or provoke other members. Please stick to the topic.

If you post a second message in this thread it will be removed, regardless of the content.

Do not post anything directed at individual members that requires a response or rebuttal. This is an opportunity to make a statement, not debate.

No quoting or multiquoting.


When activity stops the Speed Limit Forum and topic will be closed.

Click here to view the "Closing Statements" thread from 2006 and 2008.
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Old 11-20-2009, 08:42 AM   #2
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To not have a speed limit on Lake Winnipesaukee is one great big wacky and crazy proposal. Every other state, country, and planet has a speed limit. Route 93 has a speed limit. A boat speed limit is very necessary for all the safety of all the people on-board the many different rubber rafts, surfboards, kayaks, canoes, rowboats, sailboats, steamboats, barges, jet skis, and motorboats that share the waters of Lake Winnipesaukee.

And let me remind you: Going 45mph in a boat is hardly a slow speed. 45 is a very fast speed for a boat!...........
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Old 11-20-2009, 08:57 AM   #3
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Default Final Thought

As I look back at how this state has changed over the years, it makes me sad to think that my children are not going to get the same chance at living their own lives that I did or my parents or grandparents did. Outside influences keep bringing in their ideas of what this area should be, that we do things wrong around here and they will help us fix things.

I can tell you that our elected officials are not listening to the resident citizens of this state and the "Speed Limit Law" is just more of the same. People should not need the state to step in and fight their battles for them. The legislature is changing the face of the Lakes Region with this law as well as other ideas of putting padding around the corners of our lives. Remember back when Govenor Shaheen wanted to ban alcohol at bike week on the boulevard, that was as close as we have come to losing an American Tradition in this state. Putting a law into place that removes one of the oldest activities on the Lake is not well thought out. Boats have been a tradition on this Lake for as long as people have been coming here! We are talking about telling a particular group of boater that they are not welcome here because some folks do not like them. Is that really the legacy that our elected officials want to leave for the history books?

Allow this law to sunset as it was written to do. Give the MP more resource money to enforce the laws that we had prior and increase the requirement on education. Adoption of USCG rules for operating a vessel. All of our fatal boat collisions occur at night, so maintain some sort of night limit but pay attention to what you are causing for shore erosion when deciding what number you apply to it.
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Old 11-20-2009, 09:27 AM   #4
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Obviously there's a lot more work to do. As Don said, your legislators need input, so that's where the energy should be directed.

With congestion, comes problems that did not exist prior. I think it's safe to say that Lake Winnipesaukee has been congested for some time, particularly in the usual high traffic areas where the navigable waterway is not really that wide. Some of these issues have been addressed in prior years, ie: the NWZ in Meredith Bay and between Governors Island and Eagle.

But issues remain, generally broken down between a few categories.

1) Boaters that do not adhere to the 150' rule above headway speed. This is a simple rule, and not a technically-correct measurement rule. By that I mena there is some leeway dependent upon the boaters and the waterway being navigated. 150' sounds like a lot, but it's only 50 yards. Some boats travel too closely to others, and others simply can't properly judge 150'.

2) BUI - Nothing more needs to be said on this topic

3) Reckless boaters. This includes boats barreling towards or past others at high rates of speed, as well as tubers going at moderate speeds and not paying attention. People leaving NWZ areas and then gunning it too close to others that are slowing for entry into said channel.

4) Obnoxious activity. This would include loud music and loud boats, drinking and partying without regard to other boaters or property owners.


Two things that have an immediate impact on all of the above.

1) TRAINING AND EDUCATION

2) ENFORCEMENT (for those that didn't get Number1)

For the waterways to be safe for all, and compromises upheld so that everyone has a fair shake at enjoyment, there needs to be a comprehensive effort to enable the Marine Patrol to enforce the laws, better educate and train boaters, and appear to have a presence.

RULE 6 NEEDS TO BE THE OVERRIDING LAW IN PLACE ON THE WATER.
It's almost universal.
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navru...les/Rule06.htm

Without proper enforcement, there will always be those that are obnoxious, breaking laws, and even endangering others. No additional or existing law will eliminate these problems unless there is someone out there to enforce them.


Obviously, existing supporters of the SL law have no policy in place to properly address the real problems on the lake. Granted, it takes a lot of time and work to do things properly. Next summer, (hopefully), will be great weather for boating, and the economy, (hopefully), will be much better than this summer was. That will Probably bring more boat traffic (as was evidenced in August during the approximately two good weather weeks). It will also (probably) mean that those that thought the SL law worked well will have to reconsider.

Winnipesaukee has been a busy and somewhat congested lake since I first was on it, circa 1963 or thereabouts. Over the years, it gained in popularity and the congestion got worse. It's a lake that is pretty spread out, and thus became a natural for GF boats and large cruisers. Back in my day, a 21' boat was considered the minimum size one needed if they really wanted to go boating with any regularity. My suggestion was always 25' or more.

Bottom line:

I don't support rude or arrogant boaters
I don't like outlandishly loud boats
I don't want to worry about drunken idiots running me over
I don't want enforcement to become worse than the original problem.
I don't need a speed limit that doesn't address the real problems
I don't think it will take long before the SL law is shown to be counter productive

Eventually, facts and boater's discussions will reveal what's really needed.
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Old 11-20-2009, 09:59 AM   #5
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Default Enforcement and Education

That's all that's needed.

This is the same post I added in the Final Statements to HB847 and absent of any FACTS that show Speed is or has ever been a problem on the lake, I would expect this bill to expire as written.

If necessary, a good compromise would continue with a night speed limit and adopt a form of USCG Rule 6 for daytime boating.
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Old 11-20-2009, 10:30 AM   #6
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My final statement is thanks Don for allowing this debate to occur again but I thank you even more for putting an end to this for now.

One final note though,when did "cowboys" become a derogatory meaning.It were cowboys that blazed across this country to help grow it into what it is today.I'm sure todays "cowboys" would not appreciate being berated like BI and others have done to their occupation in this debate.Cowboys are in my mind are very hard working individuals which probably scare the higher than thow SL supporters.Get off your high horses!Pun intended.
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Old 11-20-2009, 10:41 AM   #7
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Default The Speed Limit was the best thing we ever did on this lake

It’s wise to shut down this forum. It did nothing except
1) Give a loud voice to a tiny gang and give the false impression that they represent the good people of the Lakes Region when they are really the antithesis of what the Lakes Region is all about.
2) Make the more typical Winnipesaukee boater look like the exception.
3) Turn this site into another GFBL forum like Offshoreonly, Scream&Fly, Winnilakers, etc and chase away the more passive members who are really typical of the region.
4) Attract riff-raff to the site from outside the region.
5) Turn this into a nasty, mean-spirited, and hate-filled place and give our region a black eye.

I sat back for years and watched this forum and said to myself “Those aren’t the people I see around the lake...in town...at the marina...at the coffee shop. Who are they and where did they come from? Why do they congregate on this forum and give the impression that they represent the typical Winnipesaukee boater? Why is this site letting this happen?”. So I finally this year had to chime in. The personal attacks began immediately. Done to me was the same thing I had seen done to so many before who tried to inject reason into the debate. I almost quit like all those before had, but even that was not enough and they kept insulting after I had left. So I decided to stand up for my friends and my lake. And when I attacked back, I was called the “troll” or “instigator”. When it’s 8 on 1, how can the 1 be the “bully”?

This site needs to stay above garbage like this. This is not what NH or the Lakes Region is. We are good and selfless people who respect each other, and do not do things that offend or hurt others. We are quiet and passive people who don’t want enemies. When we become aware that others are being impacted by something we were doing...we stop doing it....we don’t attack them for being offended. The high speed enthusiasts have numerous forums where they can talk amongst themselves and plot their opposition to this and other laws in other states. They should congregate there and leave the good reputation of this region alone. The scofflaws have no such forums, and don’t deserve one...especially not this one. They should just go away. The Lakes Region and Winnipesaukee.com should not be their sanctuary.

The Speed limit was the best thing we ever did on this lake. The citizens rose up and took their lake back, and are ecstatic with the results. The people that the law was aimed to coral are up in arms...proving the law is doing what we hoped. We had not a single speed-related death or accident on Winnipesaukee last year and only one single boat was caught speeding. Almost nothing was spent to achieve this amazing result, because as we all knew, most NHers are law-abiding and slowed down simply because the law said they should. After thousands upon thousands attended hearings, wrote letters and otherwise testified about the mayhem and fear that pervaded the lake in prior years, one simple law brought sanity and civility back. And while this one law will certainly not prevent all accidents and violations, as a part of a comprehensive strategy and a package of boating safety laws, it has surely made the lake a better and safer place.

PS. My referring to Hazelnut yesterday as a “she” again was an honest slip in the heat of a hastily written reply and I apologize most sincerely.
 
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Old 11-20-2009, 10:42 AM   #8
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In 2006, I posted the following:
First of all, thanks to Don for providing the site. Secondly, thanks to all of you for your opinions. It is nice to hear all sides of an issue, one that is so near and dear to all of us. And thanks to most of you for keeping it civil.
Personally I was against HB162, because I feel it infringes on our freedoms, and also because it would have made me a criminal to go WOT on my jet ski. Even though it barely breaks 50, I don't think it is dangerous, or that I am a dangerous rider, and I especially feel that people that are on the water near me are not in fear of me. I keep my head on a swivel at all times, and I know where you are. And I stay 150'+++ away, no matter if I am stand on vessel or not. I know the rules of the water...does the other guy? Maybe not, so I stay away.
I hope you all have a great summer and enjoy your time on the water, whatever body of water that may be.

Chip

And in 2008, I posted this:
All I ask is for everyone, opponents and proponents alike, is to be safe on the water. If you see a Captain Bonehead, educate them* rather than swear at them (*if possible). I don't think that speed is a problem on the lake, the problem is ignorance of the laws that are currently in place. They just need to be enforced.

In the end, not much will change in the next 2 years. All one needs to do is look at the number of accidents directly caused by speeds over 45/25. How many were there before the speed limit, and how many were there in the 2 years of the speed limit. That is how the effect of the law should be statistically determined. If the baseline is zero, then the law cannot possibly prevent any accidents.

To summarize both of my previous posts, please be safe out on the water at whatever speed you choose to travel. To the legistators, please be cognizant of the realities with regards to safety on our beloved lake.
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Old 11-20-2009, 11:24 AM   #9
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Not Needed!
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Old 11-20-2009, 11:40 AM   #10
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Default In conclusion

First off, I want to give a huge thanks to Don for allowing forum members to express their opinion on the speed limit law. Like any laws that effect all citizen, there are no right way or wrong way to provide safety and integrity for all citizens. The Constitution, although perfect in 1776, have had a number of amendments through the years. Laws are never perfect. Our nation was built upon independent spirit.

The SL law is not perfect. There are extremists on both side. Those that want the 45/25 and those that do not want SL. Many are willing to compromise. To compromise to ensure safety and integrity for all citizens and not just a chosen few.

Everyone agree that safety is number one priority. Now that everyone by law is required to have their safe boater's certificate, that is a huge step in keeping our lakes safe as the number of boats using our waters increase as the years go by. Good bet this is the reason we are the safest state.

We need to remind our representatives that the marine patrol is a very important aspect of the boater's life and that it should be well funded to insure enforcement of present laws. We have good laws in place, like 150' rule that no other states have. Enforcement goes a long way in reminding everyone to adhere to the laws and to corral those that feels the need to break them. We are lucky they have done a heck of a job with current manpower. Good job! MP!

As for the SL law, I strongly feel we need to keep the reasonable and prudent clause. There should be a reasonable and prudent clause on our 150' rule. 150' may not be reasonable and prudent in a lot of circumstances. 45 mph may not be reasonable and prudent. Same as for 25 mph. Arbitrary limits causes confusion as some folks thinks that the limits may be the way to go even if it is not reasonable and prudent.

We should leave the addition to our driver's record and allow heavy fines. Hitting a person on his wallet will make him think about it. Driver's records effect insurance rates as well. Heavy fines will help insure our marine patrol gets the fundings they deserve.

I don't think the arbitrary limit is needed. Replace it with Rule 6 from the USCG. Reasonable and prudent is vague interpretation and will cause a lot of problems in court rulings. Rule 6 will provide guidelines for both LEO and judges.

We need a law that will effect all water vessels and not just the 2%
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Old 11-20-2009, 12:13 PM   #11
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Cut from an earlier post and modified with new information. This is my final thought and I thank Don for his patience. FYI. elchase sent me a heartfelt well written sincere apology. I replied in kind and would like to publicly apologize to him as well. In the end he showed himself to be a class act. Thanks.


So, I'm sitting here asking myself why the heck do I care? What is it to me? I've repeatedly said that this law does not personally affect me one way or the other. Yes, I happen to have some friends with Fast Boats. For the record I went for a ride on one of their boats once this summer. Personally I enjoyed the ride but after it was over I was like "yeah that was fun but what an impractical boat." This coming from a father of three who enjoys all the cabin space of his bowrider complete with bathroom, sink, and coolers. It all goes back to the sentiment "to each their own."

I really can't see myself ever owning that style of boat. It doesn't fit my lifestyle. I do happen to like looking at them and I appreciate the owners that are passionate about them. Just like some people who don't own motorcycles and never intend on buying one but just the same enjoy looking at them and appreciate the owners who are passionate about them. Of course then there are the haters. They are out there though. Those people who do not understand people's passions outside their own small world. These people seem to be gaining control over our society now. These are the people that want a law to ban anything THEY deem offensive. Everything in the world is offensive to them and they have zero tolerance for anything outside the scope of their narrow vision. Where do I fit in? Well I'm not a huge fan of really, really loud boats, bikes, stereos or cars. However, I can tolerate some noise, some bikes, boats, cars sound really sweet. A select few push the limit and ruin it for everyone. FYI, one of the loudest boats I heard this summer was an old wooden Chris-Craft. I appreciated that this boat has probably been on the lake longer than my entire extended family. Anyway, my feelings on that subject are that there are already laws on the books to address offensive behavior in terms of noise.

Initially I supported a Speed Limit. I swear to god I did. I searched the old threads, check it out a thread started by ME!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hazelnut View Post
SPEED LIMIT (at night)?

Posted By: Hazelnut
Date: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 at 12:18 p.m.

In light of this recent night time tragedy in Meredith and the subsequent "Performance Boat" Bashing thread which was going nowhere. I decided to pose the question "What if the lake were to institute a mandatory night time speed limit?" I for one do not own a performance boat but I am a firm believer in the "It's the driver not the boat" point of view. I am also a realist. So if you've decided to post a response that states "It's too hard to enforce" I agree, to a point. By stating that you are effectively saying that we should wipe out all laws and have a free for all. The 150 foot law is pretty hard to enforce but I'm still glad it's the law. Does anyone have figures on boating fatalities involving collision during night time vs. day time hours? The last two I know of occurred at night. If all boats were required to travel at 30 MPH or less at night would this give boaters enough reaction time? Don't we all agree that visibility is limited substantially at night and that it is much safer for you and your passengers to travel at slower speeds? Believe me when I say that I would have never have thought that I would be suggesting a speed limit on the lake. I am not in favor of a daytime speed limit. But is it too much to ask that we travel slower at night? By the way what's the rush for, where are you going? Slow down breathe deep and enjoy yourselves. In no way am I suggesting that this would have prevented the crash but it begs the question. Besides it's a discussion forum so...... discuss.
?


You will see that I actually raised the issue of having a Speed Limit on the lake SEVERAL years ago. Back then, when I raised the issue I was on the defensive and quite a few people were adamant about the fact that the lake didn't need a speed limit. Similar to today. So I dropped it. I really can't pinpoint when I changed my mind and I can't say if it was one particular issue or not. I think I just couldn't resolve the issue based on my ideology. I feel pretty strongly that laws should be put in place based on facts not emotion. Laws should directly address problems. So I read some, researched some, listened to both sides, listened to neighbors, talked with friends, and finally arrived at my position. I went from supporting the law, to not really caring, to getting really passionate about opposing the law. In the end I do not personally lose here.

So now the question at hand: I'm reading between the lines here but the question you might ask me is, if it doesn't inconvenience me, or any of us for that matter, why should we care.

For me it is a political matter. I have stated it several times in this thread. Maybe I expect too much from elected officials. Maybe I should just accept it and move on. Maybe we should all just accept any and all laws coming out of the statehouse. Again, I just can't do it. The beauty of the USA is that we CAN question the motives of politicians. We CAN participate in discussions like this. We SHOULD hold our elected officials to a higher standards. I will never be convinced that this law was created out of necessity. I will always believe that this initiative does not address any of the problems with the lake. I believe truly that a group of politicians were swayed by fear and emotion.

I see this whole initiative as a huge waste of time, money and resources. It is distracting the focus from what could really work to make the lake safer. Why don't they fund the Marine Patrol adequately. Why don't they crack down on boater licensing. I would favor making all certificates obtained online invalid! That would affect me! I'd have to take a proctored exam. We have laws on the books to address every single problem ever raised on this forum. This law does not specifically address anything.


Whether or not you choose to believe it the Director of the Marine Patrol stated that

"there is not a large number of boats that exceeded the speed limit."

This was said before the Speed Limit was enacted.
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Old 11-20-2009, 01:06 PM   #12
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First Thank you Don for allowing us all an avenue to debate this issue. My belief, I you are a drinking man is that we all owe you a pint. Not all at once to be sure that wouldn't be a good sight.

Now on to the matter at hand. This discussion is one that is never going to end with both sides comming out a head. It is a discussion that requires both sides to comprimise to find the middle ground. And along with the two sides there is input in the debate that needs to be considered from the enforcement body as well. The Marine Patrol, and what is a Pratical Law for them to enforce. Winnipesaukee is a big body of water with more then enough surface area, to allow all of use to play and use the water in what ever fashion we so choose. The problem is the sides have to be willing to comprimise, and debate the real data in front of them. We can all find examples to support our sides of the arguement, that is not the point. The point is what does the data, from what is witnessed on Lake Winnipesaukee itself telling us. That is what is important, not what happens any where else, what happens on Winnipesaukee, is what is important.

I have choosen to go the way I have in these debates because the the group that seems most interested in looking at what is happening on Winnipesaukee and not clouding the discussion with details form other lakes, etc. was the speed limit oppossers. When I did this and we had some good discussion we found something out. We really had many comprimising roads we could go down. And in the end what really concerned us all was the safety of the lake for All boaters.

Please for the Sake of all put our differences aside, come together work towards legislation that makes sense for Winnipesaukee, and make the lake a Safer Place.
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Old 11-20-2009, 01:19 PM   #13
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Default Senators and Representatives Please Take Notice:

To all Legislators:

The 2 year Speed Limit on Lake Winnipesaukee was intended to be a test to gather data as to the relevance (if any) that a speed limit is needed on Lake Winnipesaukee.

Well funded lobbyist groups like the Winnfabs pushed for Speed Limit test zones in 2007 to prove to the legislature that there is an issue with speeding on our big Lake. When the Marine patrol conducted this test it was shown that only .01% of boats exceeded the speed limit tests.

However this was not what these groups had planned. These groups then lobbied to have a 2 year Trial on the entire lake because they claimed “The Fast Boats just avoided the Test Zones giving us skewed data”

This two year trial was approved and we are one boating season through this test phase. Yet now we have members of the Senate and House stating there is not enough time to collect data and are moving to have the sunset clause removed and the speed limits made permanent, without the Data promised to the legislature and to the NH citizens.

I for one am outraged that we were promised information one way or the other before a permanent decision would be made final.

These groups use fear and misdirection to try to convince the legislation and the NH public that there is chaos on our waterways. However not one piece of data can be used to back these up. Expressions such as “we feel safer” drive their agenda. There is not one example of an accident directly resulting from speed on Lake Winnipesaukee in decades. These groups have an agenda to move for the elimination of particular types of boats from the lake. They are using these speed limits as a stepping stone for further bills to be filed. Please do not be duped into these falsifications of the truth.

I want to hear what the professionals think. The people charged with keeping our lake safe and enforcing the issues i.e. The Marine Patrol.
The people of this great state and those who visit her, driving millions of dollars into its economy, deserve what we were promised: A comprehensive Study.
This has not yet been accomplished, so why should the limits be made permanent????

This law is nothing but a piece of feel good legislation that does not address the problem, instead in singles out a specific group of safe recreational boaters who are law abiding tax paying citizens.

I implore you to request the data and studies as promised to us.
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Old 11-20-2009, 01:20 PM   #14
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As I've said on this forum before, the SL isn't just about safety...it's about preserving people's right to a peaceful and pleasant recreation on Lake Winnipesaukee. Many on the forum have lamented a perceived loss of their rights to "live free or die". I until recently lamented a steady erosion of my freedom to use the lake in a manner that I used to take for granted. The SL was like a dream come true for my family. As I said yesterday, last summer, despite the presence of many GFBL's, there were NO boats tearing through the channel at high speeds at 11 at night. This to me was a barometer as to how the SL was working and it can't be blamed on the weather or economy. The weather was fine the latter half of the summer and the GFBL's were there. The GFBL's even behaved better during the day as well. I can't imagine people giving up this hard fought law. Better enforcement of present laws is not enough; reasonable and prudent...way too vague and subject to interpretation.
There have been a couple of SL opponents that I have enjoyed debating with who are genuinely sincere and respectful of other people...and it's easy to see how much their boats mean to them. It made me wistfully think...gee, too bad there isn't a way to grandfather these couple of people from the new SL. However, I just took 2 aspirin and am hoping this feeling goes away in a few hours.
2010 will be an interesting year. It's odd and ironic that the high profile trial of a prominent SL opponent will coincide with the upcoming SL legislative process. I suspect that some of the testimony will open a window and provide new insights as to why this law is so necessary.
This forum has been a great place to stay abreast of happenings regarding the SL. I would hope that as the 2010 legislative debate unfolds that Don will allow links to the apppropriate media coverage (and I mean links only, no commentary).
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Old 11-20-2009, 01:58 PM   #15
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Default Live free or die

Although I have no dog in this hunt, as in not a GFBL boat owner, I do not believe that this law was enacted at the behest of a majority of NH citizens. It is another nanny feel good law that the State Legislature enacted because they believed they had the facts on boating accidents in NH being caused by excessive speed. There were no facts presented. There was sensationalism in headlines without a close examination of the true causes of accidents, not only here on Winnipesaukee but nationwide. This law as others do, takes responsible behavior as something to be discouraged. It decides arbitrarily and without facts that a given speed is safe and another is not. Facts Ladies and Gentlemen were not a component in the formation of this law.

The NH legislature must be held to a higher account because of the legacy that they have inherited being the only State with a motto that embraces the principles of our founding fathers. LIVE FREE OR DIE! These are not just words. These are words that instill pride in many and should be followed by those in power.
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Old 11-20-2009, 02:38 PM   #16
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Default All I can say is...

Thanks, Don for putting up with this as long as you have and thanks for shutting it down. I never made a single post on the subject in any of the threads. I pretty much read it all, though.

In MY view, a lot of hard feelings with lasting permanent effects came out of this debate and I don't think it was worth it. In a subject that contained this much energy and passion, common ground was difficult to find.

Happy Holidays and let's move on.

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Old 11-20-2009, 04:25 PM   #17
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Default Where to start...

Honestly I have been thinking about this topic for the better part of the day. Sitting in meetings - where I should be paying strict attention - I found myself thinking about this topic and what I might have as a "final statement" on it. In the end, I'm not sure I have anything profound or earth-shattering - but I'll at least take the opportunity given and put something down.

First - thanks Don for your long-standing efforts with this forum, the topics and the people that make up the "community" of Winni.com. You provided the soap box from which many have shared their opinions - good - bad - and, at times - ugly.

A LOT has changed in the years I have been coming to the lake - I started when I was 10 mo. old. Pictures of me sitting on my dads lap in our 16' Glastron, had a whopping 120hp 4cyl Merc I/O in it, green and cream in color - classic! It is what got me into boating and the passion that I have today for it. I always said, if I could displace some of the boating related info in my head and replace it with something more useful, I'd be waaaay ahead of the game! Since that Glastron, I have (personally) owned a bunch of boats - some fast - some slow - and I have enjoyed every one of them in their own way (or the way they were designed - for the most part anyway). I will agree that there are days that I wish for the "good ole days" of the lake, where everyone waved to each other. ALL boaters respected the rules AND each other, it was a fraternal respect of sorts, and it's what made the lake great!

Fast-forward to today... The lake has grown in popularity and population, and with that comes the chance that you'll get people with more money than brains. Anyone with the money can buy a boat - doesn't make them an instant experienced operator. Sure you can take the safe boating class - again, it is administrative smarts - not practical - and nothing else makes you good at something like experience. With that experience needs to come a rational level of common sense, again - not a "learned" skill, more an inherent one. Fixing a problem that never existed is foolhardy and a waste of good money, time and efforts. Overlooking the true issue that faces us today - to enact a "feel good" law, is foolhardy and short-sighted and will do nothing to make our waterways "safer". A speed limit will not prevent BUI's - a speed limit will not prevent boats from passing within 150' of one another - a speed limit will not make an operator a better - safer boater, period. The "illusion" that the speed limit had had some sort of effect on make our waterway "safer" is absurd. There are no FACTS to substantiate this, and there are no FACTS that say we need a speed limit, period. Accidents happen every day, in boats, in cars, on motorcycles - I know, I have been there. I've been in car accidents, I've been in a bad motorcycle accident, but in all my years boating, (and they are greater than the number of years I have been driving on the roads) I have never been in a boating accident (knock on wood) . I have witnessed many a boating accident over the years, most have been while people are docking. Any at speed have been on the race course - I have never witnessed one personally that was not, not saying that it doesn't happen, I have just never seen one. I have been involved in close-calls out on the water, passing too close, being cut off, wave runners jumping my wake, etc... NONE have been a result of excessive speed.

We need to hold accountable the operators of the boats, not the type of boat that is being operated. It's not the boat, it's the operator - and I have said that 1,000's of times over the years!! A 22' bowrider is just as dangerous - if not more so - than a 32' "performance" boat, at a given speed, in the wrong hands - that's a fact! We can work smarter and not harder and have a more positive outcome here. Just putting police officers on the main public docs on busy weekend nights would do WONDERS for preventing BUI incidents. I think it is safe to say we are all out for a common goal in all of this, and that is the general safety of all those that boat on the lake. To this point, I don't support a speed limit for a number or reasons, one - I don't see the need for one and I don't see the facts to support one. And two - it is a freedom that is being taken away by big government, and that I certainly do not agree with! I believe in the right to free speech, I believe in the right to bear arms... fundamental rights - and all very important rights. I also believe that a small group should not artificially manipulate the facts and serve them up on a silver platter to those that can - and do - effect change.

Monies are tight, budgets are being cut, and the MP has so much more on their plate that they SHOULD and could be addressing, besides the speed limit. Our lake is safe, period - statistically speaking, from a speed to incident ratio - it is very safe! I might not choose to make my primary boat a kayak or sailboat, but I respect the fact that you have - and I would never look to take that away from you. It is a BIG lake, and we can all enjoy it - be it in a canoe or a performance boat, whatever makes you happy.

And lastly, I agree with this former statement:
RULE 6 NEEDS TO BE THE OVERRIDING LAW IN PLACE ON THE WATER.
It's almost universal.
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navru...les/Rule06.htm

Speed limits are NOT going to solve the issues we face on the lake today - as speed is NOT the enemy! Better boater education, tighter laws on things like BUI and the direct repercussions, and better enforcement of the laws that actually promote safe boating are the key!

May you all have a safe and happy holiday season and I look forward to seeing you ALL out on the water come the spring!
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Old 11-20-2009, 04:37 PM   #18
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Default Night Time Speed Limit

As Sunset mentioned, I'm sure with the nighttime speed limit in place, that the channel he lives on was quieter at night. I can't blame him for wanting that.
with that sais, I believe that the nightime limit should stand, but should be 30mph and not 25.
There is no need for a daytime limit especially in the broads.
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Old 11-20-2009, 04:58 PM   #19
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Default Speed limit

It surprises me that nobody has mentioned anything about noise that comes from some GFBL boats. (unless I missed it...very possible)
I was never for or against the speed limit on the lake, but I always wonder why every single person within sight of the water in Meredith Bay (as an example) has to listen to the BL boats from the time they pass Eagle Is. to the time they arrive in Meredith. I think one of the underlieing issues of the speed limit is the horrendously load exhaust noise that comes out of the back of too many boats. It is not that rare an occasion that I along with many others have been woken up at 2 or 3AM by some totally inconsiderate captain who has absolutely no regard for the rights or privileges of the rest of us as he/she blasts through the bay at 70MPH or so. I don't recall this happening once this past summer. Maybe that's progress, maybe it's not. And it did seem a lot more civil out there this year...again, maybe that's progress, maybe it's not.
Maybe now that the SL thread is closed, those passionate folks could start a NL (noise limit) discussion..... JK, Don !!
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Old 11-20-2009, 05:27 PM   #20
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Default A message to members of the NH General Court

Dear members of the New Hampshire General Court,

Soon you will be facing a piece of legislation filed by Senator Martha Fuller Clark that will ask you to make permanent the temporary speed limit on Lake Winnipesaukee.

I ask you to defeat this measure and allow the two year trial period to play out allowing the New Hampshire Department of Public Safety to collect and review the data, then report to you, the legislature, on whether this law is practical or needed. I, and a majority of boaters on Lake Winnipesaukee, strongly believe this law is not only unnecessary but is a detriment to the economy of the Lakes Region, New Hampshire and will cause an unnecessary financial drain on the New Hampshire Marine Patrol.

A vocal minority has convinced a majority of you that Lake Winnipesaukee is and has been a lawless and dangerous place for years however when you take the time to look at the facts, and the laws that have been in place for years, you will understand that they have been doing nothing more than creating the illusion for their own narrow agenda.

New Hampshire has a boating regulation called Safe Passage. For those of you who are not boaters it simply means that when a boater comes within 150 feet of pretty much any object, be it another boat, swimmer, shore, no wake zone etc. they are REQUIRED to cut their speed to no more than 6 miles an hour! This is a uniquely New Hampshire law! Few if any other states have it and it has gone a long way toward making New Hampshire the safest place to boat in New England and among the safest places to boat in the United States of America! Please take the time to read this NH Department of Safety Services Press Release of August 2009 for verification!
http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/ss/090817.html

In spite of the overwhelming amount of rhetoric that has been coming from supporters of the speed limit even those that patrol the waters of New Hampshire have stated it is an unnecessary law and a snapshot of Lake Winnipesaukee during the 2007 boating season conducted by the New Hampshire Marine patrol showed that fewer than 1% of the boats clocked by radar were traveling in excess of the then proposed speed limit and it is my understanding that no more than a single ticket for speeding has been issued in the 2009 boating season. That re-enforces the conclusion of boating experts that speed has not been a problem on Lake Winnipesaukee in the past and it is currently not a problem. Please take time to read the New Hampshire Marine Patrol report of their 2007 speed study on Lake Winnipesaukee!
http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/s...eedsurvey.html

New Hampshire’s boating safety record prior to speed limits on Lake Winnipesaukee exceeds those of any other New England state according to the United States Coast Guard. Advocates for imposing this unnecessary law on New Hampshire boaters routinely search the internet for stories of tragic accidents in other parts of the country, and in some cases in other countries, and try to say this could happen here! However they ignore the existing laws that keep our waterways safe. Laws that do not exist in the parts of the country and elsewhere that they continue to try to compare with New Hampshire.

Below is a link to the United States Coast Guard Boating Statistics. You will see that of the 96,205 boats registered in New Hampshire in 2008, the year before speed limits went into effect but after mandatory boater education was already law, that only 28 vessels were involved in accidents! That is a ratio of 0.00028% of New Hampshire registered boats and does not include transient boaters from out-of-state that visit New Hampshire so that number is actually even lower!
http://www.uscgboating.org/assets/1/...stics_2008.pdf

Finally, I want to bring to your attention the economic impact of an unnecessary boating law and the dangers that law poses especially in light of the down economy in New Hampshire.

The following is a link to a comprehensive study conducted in 2003 that shows the economic impact of boating, fishing and swimming in New Hampshire. Keep in mind this study is in 2002 dollars. Creating an atmosphere that implies New Hampshire is no longer friendly or welcoming to tourists is a very dangerous economic road to begin to travel.
http://www.nhlakes.org/docs/EcoStudyPhaseII.pdf

Ladies and Gentlemen of the General Court I ask you to defeat the proposal by Senator Fuller Clark that would make the speed limit on Lake Winnipesaukee permanent. Allow the law to run its course and sunset on January 1, 2011.

Thank you for your consideration.
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Old 11-20-2009, 09:16 PM   #21
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Default Live Free or Die

New Hampshire is loosing it's 'Live Free or Die " ideals.

The state is now becoming a state with toothless feel good laws like the speed limit bill. What ever happened to people being responsible for their actions? Or law enforccement enforcing existing laws?

You can not legislate behavior!

What do I tell my children about being responsible ... that the state will guide them?

For the record I do not own a muscle boat / go fast boat but a family bowrider. My boat tops out at about 45.... I feel people and organizations are targeting one type of boater... who's next?????
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Old 11-21-2009, 12:04 PM   #22
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Default Data

I am glad to see this debate put to bed for now as it just stirs up emotion and irrational comments/thoughts. I tend to not get involved for that very reason. I am a Engineer and also a Manager for a very large computer company. Needless to say we make decisions based on data. If we need to change our process or way of doing business we use data.

So looking at the US Coast Guard "Recreational Boating Statistics" for 2008, here is what I see:

TOP TEN KNOWN PRIMARY CONTRIBUTING FACTORS OF ACCIDENTS

1 Careless/Reckless Operation
2 Operator Inattention
3 No Proper Lookout
4 Operator Inexperience
5 Passenger/Skier Behavior
6 Machinery Failure
7 Excessive Speed
8 Alcohol Use
9 Weather
10 Force of Wave/Wake

http://www.uscgboating.org/assets/1/...stics_2008.pdf

So if I look at this piece of the data, we should be passing laws for education and training. We should be passing laws for stricter fines/enforcement on people doing "dumb things", aka Captain Boneheads. Even machinery failure is ahead of Excessive Speed, so even a law in regard to boat inspections would make more sense.

The report is interesting to read, and I know it was referenced before on this forum, take a look at it.

Another Interesting one was number of vessels involved in accidents by speed at time of accident:

Not Moving - 917
Under 10 mph - 1522
10 to 20 mph - 1064
21 to 40 mph - 970
Over 40 mph - 176

With all that said, what do I think about the Speed limit?? I think it will be another law that won't be enforced. It's another law that won't prevent an accident. It is another waste of taxpayer's money, and the states resources. It is terrible when someone gets hurt on the lake, but guess what it is going to happen.

Like all very political movements, the reasoning or propaganda that is put on the posterboard is not the real reason why the proponents want the specific law passed. That is the nature of politics for thousands of years.

In closing, my point of view, as it was several years ago:

Put the resources towards the MP enforcing the 150 ' rule. if everyone is 150' feet apart then they won't hit each other. It also makes everyone slow down in narrow areas where 150 feet apart isn't possible. In general it goes after the Captain Boneheads, that make boating unsafe and less enjoyable.

If I see a 30+ foot speedboat 1/2 mile away moving at 80, 90 mph, somehow that doesn't really pose any danger to me. If said boat is 60 feet away at 80 mph then yes write him or her a ticket.

Have a good holiday season everyone!!

SOB
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Old 11-21-2009, 04:32 PM   #23
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Default Open mind

I'm not completely convinced either way on the speed limit. If I had to commit I'd say set it a little higher.

Many of the safety issues raised by the pro limit group are also addressable by better enforcement of other reg.s like the 150 foot rule. A universal speed rule might be more easy for honest boaters to self enforce though.

Good luck to us all!

Ken
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Old 11-21-2009, 09:47 PM   #24
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Winnipesaukee comprises 34% of the total lake area of New Hampshire lakes that are 250 acres or more. A total of 89 lakes. Some are quiet and peaceful. Some are too small for power boats. Many are developed. Most are great for Kayaking. Most are great for swimming. Most are great for all sorts of family fun.

Only one is great for going fast when conditions permit if that is what you wish to do.

Winni used to be big enough for all to share and enjoy together. I hope the day when one minority group is not excluded because of another minority groups preference is a distant memory.

Lets share.
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Old 11-22-2009, 05:44 AM   #25
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Default Common Sense

Like many have said, thank you Don for your patience.

For this post I am setting aside the debate about the need for a speed limit. Enhanced enforcement of existing laws vs speed limits has been debated ad nauseum and became counter-productive.

Despite what some people on this forum surmise, I believe most SL opponents don't really oppose speed limits, myself especially included. My opposition has been to this type of arbitrary SL, one that does not take into account your location on the lake. It is like setting a single roadway limit to 55- 55 on 93, 55 on Main Street.

Let's determine realistic limits. Our home base on the lake is the States Landing area (almost Lee's Mill). 45 daytime is too fast from Lee's Mills until you get out into Moultonborough Bay. 35 would make more sense, where 65 would make more sense in the broads.

I think we all have to realize there is a time and place for all of the activities on the lake. Fast boating does not belong in all areas on the lake- it is unsafe during the busy summer months. Fast boating does belong in some. Likewise, canoeing in the broads isn't safe either (even without a single boat on it- most breezy days).

Speed limits are not a panacea, they may become another tool in the MP's tool box. Our regulations really need to come from within:

Don't boat fast where it is unsafe to do so.
Don't run straight pipes.
Don't swim or canoe in the broads
Don't ride around with your stereo booming
Don't run your big cruiser at max wake speed
Enjoy and share the lake while using common sense, realizing it is a busy place and not everyone shares your interests and passions.

Stay safe out there.
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Old 11-22-2009, 05:31 PM   #26
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Speed Limits are here to stay.

They are the first in a series of measures to limit the cowboy atmosphere that has become to prevalent on the lake.
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Old 11-22-2009, 06:13 PM   #27
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I feel better this time not wasting as much of my time. It was fruitless trying to convince people of things they just don't want to believe. The only real poll is the ballot box.
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Old 11-22-2009, 06:17 PM   #28
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Prior to May, 2008 Gov. Lynch was unsure as to whether he would sign a bill to limit the speed on Lake Winnipesaukee.

May 15, 2008
The Senate passed trial speed limits Thursday for the state's biggest lake in a 14-10 vote.

June 15, 2008
Erica Blizzard and two friends, Stephanie Beaudoin and Nicole Shinopules, were reported to be heading to a home on Sleeper’s Island when it struck Diamond Island at about 2:30 AM.

On June 25, 2008
Gov. John Lynch said today he will sign a bill that sets up speed limits for two years on Lake Winnipesaukee, beginning next year.
He stated “The lake is a place where everybody who uses the lake should be able to enjoy it. I think speed is an issue on the lake and I think going forward with a pilot program makes sense,”.
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Old 11-22-2009, 06:28 PM   #29
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I hop our legislators realize that most of the experienced boaters are not in favor of this law, polls by citizens that know very little about safe boating should have little weight when considering their impact. I question in the way this law was processed, I was there every meeting, and there was no statistics that supported an additional law for this speed limit when existing speed laws were working.
The one thing I have noticed is that one can park there boat at public docks in the evening without any congestion. I would think that the businesses are suffering from the lack of traffic. All boats over 5000lbs will have a considerable wake and could cause harm at 25mph. Now if I want to cross the lake, I will do so before I return after dark, other wise now I have to idle all the way. So now I miss going out to dinner by boat.
MP need support to work efficiently, not a law that makes a few boaters FEEL safer. Regulation should be fair to all users, and not segregate another.
Safe boating to all...............
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Old 11-22-2009, 06:44 PM   #30
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I heard the lake called a cowboy lake 25 years ago when there were no GF boats!

The speed limit law is a feel good law, nothing more. Most lawmakers who enacted it probably never use the lake.

Alcohol not speed is the cause of the serious accidents. There is a law against drunk boating. It hasn't stopped these accidents.

There is already a decibel law to take care of the noise. It has nothing to do with speed. A boat can be legal and still fast.

We already have a reasonable and prudent law. If enforced, that is all that is necessary to control speed.
Frequent abuse of the 150' law is far more dangerous than fast boats.

As someone else said, we should ALL be able to use the lake. It does seem some would love to have nothing but kayaks and canoes on the lake. I don't hear the GF boat lovers saying they think kayaks and canoes should be banned, I don't know why the kayakers feel the GF boats should be banned. No boat type should be restricted on the lake.

Our state is the "Live Free or Die" state, why are we so quick to give away all our freedoms?
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Old 11-22-2009, 07:30 PM   #31
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Passing any law without scientific data to support it should be a crime in itself. I don't know if the house and senate were duped, or just plain incompetent. Passing laws should be taken very seriously and based on fact not fiction. I can only hope that the house and senate look at the facts and the people behind this bogus law and see that they were duped and sold a bunch of lies.The governor knew it and told the senate to squash it. He certainly didn't want it on his desk. Unfortunetley, this did not happen. Hopefully, both the house and senate can come out of the ether and do what is right for N.H and its citizens.
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Old 11-22-2009, 08:07 PM   #32
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The fact that the current speed limit law is the first in a series of laws, not aimed at safety, but instead at the exclusion of certain types of boats from the lake is the reason I am totally opposed to the extension of the speed limit law.

Boating safety should be the only focus of the legislature. The current speed limit law was not designed to improve safety. It was designed to knock certain boats off the biggest lake in NH. To me, this is all about an improper and un-American restriction of personal freedom, the right to safely operate a certain type of boat in NH.

This is also the first in a series of laws the supporters of Winnfabs have planned, as evidenced in the referenced post above. The first in a series of proposed laws that are targeted in restricting the rights of several types of boats Winnfabs does not like. I realize that a few Winnfabs members own waterfront properties on Winnipesaukee, but they do not own the whole lake.

To me, a Vietnam veteran who owns lake front property on Lake Winnespaukee, this is a clear attack on the rights of American citizens ability to use a resource that should be open to all citizens. This is an attack on the personal freedoms of Americans who happen to own a particular type of boat, and they, the Speed Limit supporters, freely admit it!!!

The USCG has rules that address safe boating. NH should adopt these rules and stop what might go down in history as the modern day version of the Salem Witch Trials. The 150 foot rule in place, the education program in place and the existing USCG rules are all focused on boating safety. Hopefully the NH law makers will see this and do the correct thing in the interest of freedom.

For the record, I do not own and have never been in a GFBL boat, so I am not directly impacted. As an American, I believe the current Speed Limit law is being there for all the wrong reasons.

R2B

Last edited by Resident 2B; 11-25-2009 at 02:21 AM. Reason: Trying to stay within the rules I just read...sorry Don
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Old 11-23-2009, 11:21 AM   #33
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I would like to send a Great Big Thanks to all for sharing the forum threads on speed limits (until it got out of hand with the goading). There were many thoughtful and well written positions on all points of view. For those that thought it was too vicious - view the thread like being at a hockey game or a good car race. A few fights or accidents but in the end all have the lake as a common bond and the willingness to put the pen aside.

Thank you all for the hours of entertainment and thanks to Don for that!

It is distressing the politicians responsible for making the laws do not share the same passion that draws us to boating. The people that wish to reverse time to go back to a simpler life only cause pain because it is not possible! The streets, cities, suburbs, and nature are more crowded with 300 plus million and a growing population. One group can and should not be allowed to create a sanctuary for exclusive solitude of a public asset nor should the bully be able to “scare and intimidate” the average person away for their desired use. Common sense needs to play as others have pointed out in regards to location and size of watercraft used.

A few years ago when I was lurking and not contributing to the forum I did get concerned that my cruiser was looked upon as an enemy of the lake but now through forum participation I am confident that my rights to a share are as important as anyone’s. I am deeply grateful for the many of you that I have thanked through the thread over this past year. Keep up the good fight and I hope to meet many of you! Our boat is named “NoRegrets” so do introduce yourself to us. We will be taking our last cruise this coming weekend.

Happy Holidays to all.
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Old 11-23-2009, 11:58 AM   #34
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Default Compromise

In my opinion there should have been a compromise before it got this far.

I was never for a speed limit but I did understand the concerns of the few waterfront land owners and boaters who had issues with a very small group of irresponsible boaters. Yes, it is and always will be the few that ruin it for the many.

Is there a reason to go 60 mph in Alton Bay, Wolfeboro Bay, Winter harbor, Meredith Bay, etc, etc...The answer in my opinion is no and I am certain that most responsible boat owners on this forum and in general do not do this. But the fact remains that the few that do have ruined it for all.

I feel the only hope that we the S.L. opponents have is to come up with a compromise where the open water broads have no speed limit and other areas such as bays and coves are addressed accordingly with a speed limit that Marine Patrol can enforce.

In the end, we all need to be more responsible in our actions on the lake, not just in regards to the speed limit, but in a way we can secure a happy and safe environment for everyone to enjoy the states greatest recreational resource. That should be the main goal of both opponents and proponents. This can be done, but it will take compromise.

Just my opinion;

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Old 11-24-2009, 08:13 PM   #35
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Default final thoughts for now.....

It has been interesting, reading alot of these posts on the speed limit topic...I believe there is a minority in this state, or should I say this lake, that are posing as the majority, that previously rammed home this law...in full disclosure, I am a lakefront property owner, owner of a go fast boat, a not so fast boat, and a slow boat, as well as 2 kayaks, a sail boat, jet skis etc...you get the point....I am fortunate to enjoy the lake in many different types of crafts....With that said, I am very much againt the speed limit law.

Random thoughts regarding this issue:
1. It is not needed, nor has it been proven that we need it...it is feel good legislation for a problem that does not exist,no debate is needed, no compromise is required.
2. I see a lot of analogies referencing speed limits on roads or high ways. These analogies have no bearing on speed on water. Roads are designed for travel at certain speeds, density also plays a part. This is not relavant to a speed limit on water.
3. We currently have laws that address any issue that has been debated here, why create another one that inhibits my right to operate my boat at a speed I feel is safe, and safe for fellow boaters around me.
4. I hear the arbitrary comments that 45 is fast enough, or its really really fast....dont tell me whats fast in my boat, as you have no idea...it may seem really really fast in a small boat that is/was not designed to go fast, but if your piloting a boat that is designed to go fast, there is little danger to anyone, if..again you obey other laws already on the books.
5. Its a travesty, that our largest, most open lake has a speed limit, while all other lakes in the state have no speed limits. This just does not seem right. Let this law( If legislators are reading) sunset as the law was intended and was written.

over and out.
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Old 11-24-2009, 09:23 PM   #36
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Get over it. It's not 1955. Times change, people change. Maybe 45's not too fast but maybe you're just too old.
This speed limit is just one more strangle hold the government is putting on us. We are already like puppies on leashes to be drug around, jerked and kicked by the government as they see fit and there's less and less that we can do about it.
Don't believe me...fine! You'll wake up some day after another law effects you directly. Remember my words!

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Old 11-25-2009, 02:08 PM   #37
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A law limiting speed to 45 mph does not bother me at all - in fact, it will not even affect me directly. I am, however, concerned about the indirect effect of the reduction in enforcement of more important laws - such as safe passage. I truly hope that somehow we will also see an increase in enforcement of laws targeting real safety issues. I am very concerned that the opposite will now be true.
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Old 11-27-2009, 06:58 PM   #38
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An active debate is a sign that most boaters intend to observe the law. But some say that they will continue to be scofflaws, just like Robert LaPointe from Massachusetts was.

The new revisors of the law should consider toughening the law and help solve funding at the same time. At conviction for the second offense, those ignoring safety laws by extreme margins should have their boats confiscated and sold by the state to help pay the Marine Patrol.
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Old 11-28-2009, 10:36 AM   #39
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Smile just to put my two cents in....

I think that a speed limit on the lake is retarded....I grew up running my 14 foot alumacraft as fast as I could row it, then with the 15 hp evinrude as fast as it would go, then my Grandfathers Sea Ray wide open and maybe hit 40 mph.....the big fast boats should know not to run them 65 mph through Sally's Gut, I dont know, I guess I just have too much faith in peoples smarts sometimes. I think it really should be left up to the year round, lake front residents, afterall, it is their home.....just my opinion.
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Old 11-29-2009, 09:56 AM   #40
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Default Let the sun set on this purchased law

The best argument for a speed limit is that it lowers anxiety in the fearful. While a admirable goal, it comes at the price of freedom, for some, to pursue happiness of speed. If there was a significant danger, the price would be acceptable. Instead, dislike of big boats, loud noise and the desire to “feel” safe has been erroneously lumped into the logic of safety. The dishonesty of the proponents who pushed the bill forward should be enough to warrant its expiration. Conducting a public opinion survey after a well-funded media education campaign showed us a textbook technique of how to buy a law. Fortunately, there was not enough funding to prevent a sunset clause. Two years of “feel-good nannyism” is enough. Let this law expire.
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Old 11-29-2009, 02:56 PM   #41
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The speed limit has been effective. People on Winni are tired of having their lake used by a few as their personal speedway. They are tired of the noise, confusion, and overall cowboy atmosphere on the lake. I agree it is silly just to have a speed limit on Winni while there's none on other NH lakes...this will change as other lakes will not want to be the dumping grounds for this kind of boating. All the bellyaching about loss of freedoms, live free or die, etc is becoming tiresome...what this boating has done to curtail my freedoms (and many other's)on the lake also must carry some weight too. All the bellyaching about how SL supporters are in a minority despite the statewide poll not to mention the poll(i.e. vote) in the statehouse shows that indeed the SL opponents are a small but highly vocal minority. LONG LIVE 45/25!
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Old 11-29-2009, 04:14 PM   #42
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I am adamantly in favor of having the current speed limit law cease to exist as of January 2011, as enacted by our legislature and signed by our governor. In it's place I would like to see Rule 6 be the overriding law, it is almost universal.
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navru...les/Rule06.htm

The only times I have felt nervous due to another boat occurred as a direct result of the 150 foot rule violation or other basic navigation and right of way rules, never was speed or a performance boat an issue.

Simply put, the current speed limit law is a solution to a non existant problem. The misinformation, misleading and inaccurate conclusions and the statements that the Lake is safer or calmer by a vocal minority is disturbing. A lie told often enough becomes the truth as they know.

When and if a proposal to make the speed limit permanent is brought forward I expect the House and Senate to consider only provable and demonstrable facts relevant to Lake Winnipesaukee in the analysis. My experience has shown such facts do not exist.
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Old 11-29-2009, 08:57 PM   #43
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I was going to post something on the speed limit debates, but then I realized this would have just as much effect:

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Old 12-01-2009, 07:11 PM   #44
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