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Old 06-19-2018, 07:39 AM   #101
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I totally agree w/the idea of choice when it comes to helmets, my point was that I donít understand why. Poor Richardís response (someone who rides, I donít) reinforces my point. I just doesnít make sense to me.

I see your point about cars but I guess itís my 50 years of driving without a helmet that taints my thinking. Probably same for long time helmetless bikers.


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Old 06-19-2018, 08:33 AM   #102
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Anyone who says a helmet resticts their line of sight is either full of crap or is wearing an improperly fitted helmet.
You are quite correct as ALL DOT approved helmets are required have a 210 degree field of vision which is more than the peripheral vision of people...

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Old 06-19-2018, 09:42 AM   #103
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Question for anyone:

Do you think if NH had a helmet law that it would hurt Bike week?
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Old 06-19-2018, 11:11 AM   #104
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Question for anyone:

Do you think if NH had a helmet law that it would hurt Bike week?
I believe it would have a minimal effect. I already see many riders wearing their helmets during bike week. Certainly it would have some effect, and keep the people that ride over for the day from surrounding states ... But the people that come for the various events will show up regardless...

Additionally you would find that during bike week people would not pay attention to the law, and law enforcement would be to concentrated on other more important duties during the week of the event.
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Old 06-19-2018, 12:07 PM   #105
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Back to the cost of living factors...

1975 had no cell phone bills

1975 had no internet service provider bills

1975 health insurance was much cheaper

1975 people ate out much less

1975 was the year I graduated high school and probably the last year in which I had no concern about finances.
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Old 06-19-2018, 05:59 PM   #106
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Many kids today have huge incomes but also have huge debt. My kids make a lot of money but they are always struggling to pay all their bills. They spend a lot of money on credit.
They don't live lavishly so I don't think it's a case of living beyond their means.
It costs a lot of money to raise children today. Both parents have to work and that means putting kids in child care, which is incredibly expensive today along with housing and food. They say inflation is low but I don't believe it!
There is a book, I just told my daughter to get it and read it, called "The Millionaire Next Door" by Stanley and Danko. It's good for adult kids and their parents. Great stuff in there.
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Old 06-19-2018, 06:26 PM   #107
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Additionally you would find that during bike week people would not pay attention to the law, and law enforcement would be to concentrated on other more important duties during the week of the event.
It is rare that law enforcement has more important duties during Bike Week.

You don't think people without helmets would be cited if NH had a helmet law? I have seen police officers standing on the side of the road watching for any violation. When a rider stopped in heavy traffic on a hot day raised his face shield to vent some heat he was stopped for no eye protection. I have seen UNH Campus Police stop someone with a can of Coke and demand to smell the Coke.

For many, many years there were too many police officers with nothing to do except interact with motorcycle riders. This year there was a noticeable decrease in the number of police officers passing by and it was a welcome change.

I still believe it is too little, too late. It would take some big changes to revive Bike Week and I, for one, don't see that on the horizon.
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Old 06-19-2018, 06:36 PM   #108
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For many, many years there were too many police officers with nothing to do except interact with motorcycle riders. This year there was a noticeable decrease in the number of police officers passing by and it was a welcome change.

I still believe it is too little, too late. It would take some big changes to revive Bike Week and I, for one, don't see that on the horizon.
The over abundance of law enforcement went away several years ago (IMO). As far as too little, too late.... This is the 95th year. I am sure (they) are already planning 100 years.
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Old 06-19-2018, 07:25 PM   #109
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I for one feel Bike week brings a tremendous amount of money into the Lakes Region, if only there could be more ways to bring money to the local businees's.
I don't own a bike , but enjoy bringing a number of my friends up for a few days to spend money on food, beer and gas as we enjoy a few days away from work.
Its been said before, what the weirs needs is a better restaurant at the Pier, and a better dock system to encourage more boaters to visit. I don't think there is a better spot on the lake, remember they are not making anymore lakefront property on Winni. People like me who own their own business are always looking for ways to bring people into my business to spend money, its a tradition, bike week will never end.
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Old 06-19-2018, 08:00 PM   #110
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We didn't stay for the full week of Bike Week. I and the dogs love the rumble of the bikes. Back at home I have met several who attended bike week on the weekend but alas had to work during the week. I met one young man who won his bike in the raffle.
On another count, we always bought things when we could pay cash. So after many years seeing my F-I-L buying a car every 2 years or so after paying off the loan, I wised up. Credit allows all sorts of purchases altho we pay cash for autos. Also keep them long time, putting 1,2,3 hundred thousand miles on each. One had 330 thousand + and was replaced only because I told my wife I wanted to make it new, new paint, replacing some interior leather. No problems with the engine. We were coming home and she said "drive to the dealer". Heck, just so happened that an auto just arrived that we both loved. So we bought that and donated ours to charity.
Drove that one for open air on weekends mostly until another one entered our view. Guess what. No, the old one was not donated. Given to our son since these stay in families. I got off subject, using credit was a boon
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Old 06-20-2018, 12:31 PM   #111
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I am pleased to report that I had an AWESOME BIKE WEEK! Charlie St Clair will need to find a lot more old people, trikes, and police if he wants to spoil my good time!


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Old 06-20-2018, 01:20 PM   #112
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Back to the cost of living factors...

1975 had no cell phone bills

1975 had no internet service provider bills

1975 health insurance was much cheaper

1975 people ate out much less

1975 was the year I graduated high school and probably the last year in which I had no concern about finances.
Exactly right, Health insurance cost more than a mortgage use to, If you're self employed it's double, triple or more of what a mortgage cost in the 80's. The mortgage has also tripled at minimum, along with the tax, It's an absurd argument.
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Old 06-20-2018, 01:55 PM   #113
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Exactly right, Health insurance cost more than a mortgage use to, If you're self employed it's double, triple or more of what a mortgage cost in the 80's. The mortgage has also tripled at minimum, along with the tax, It's an absurd argument.
Back in the 80's when my kids were young I had the best health insurance plan for $8000 a year. I paid zero out of my pocket other than a ten dollar co pay and my monthly insurance charge. It covered everything with no deductibles.
A family plan now is 4 times that with $25 co pays and $4000 deductibles for each person. That's insane!
I'm a year away from Medicare and it will cost me more at 65 to get less coverage for just me and my wife than it cost for complete coverage back then when I had a family of 5.
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Old 06-20-2018, 02:57 PM   #114
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From Bike Week ( Thread Title)

to

Cost of Living


I just laugh at how fast & how many threads get wayyyyyyyy off topic and spiral into the abys



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Old 06-20-2018, 04:04 PM   #115
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From Bike Week ( Thread Title)

to

Cost of Living


I just laugh at how fast & how many threads get wayyyyyyyy off topic and spiral into the abys



.
The OP asked about this year's crowds. A working thesis is that Bike Week attendance is declining because the younger generation cannot afford as many/as pricey activities.

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Old 06-20-2018, 04:22 PM   #116
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The OP asked about this year's crowds. The working thesis is that Bike Week attendance is declining because the younger generation cannot afford as many/as pricey activities.

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Thinkxingu -- respectfully, if THAT is the working thesis -- someone better explain it to my grown "children" who have houses/cars/ a phone & tablet for every household member/ vacation plans blah, blah, blah -- which I quite frankly stand in AWE of as I see no care or consideration being given to their kids (my grand kids) who will -within a few years- be of college age.

Perhaps my age/ Generation is showing -- but I too digress -- the working thesis that "Bike Week attendance is declining because the younger generation cannot afford as many/as pricey activities". I beg to differ -- they simply don't give a crap about Bike Week -- thus why most attendee's are silver haired !!




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Old 06-20-2018, 04:29 PM   #117
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Ooops, changed my post from "the" to "a."

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Old 06-20-2018, 06:10 PM   #118
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the topic is flexible
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Old 06-20-2018, 07:43 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom View Post
Thinkxingu -- respectfully, if THAT is the working thesis -- someone better explain it to my grown "children" who have houses/cars/ a phone & tablet for every household member/ vacation plans blah, blah, blah -- which I quite frankly stand in AWE of as I see no care or consideration being given to their kids (my grand kids) who will -within a few years- be of college age.

Perhaps my age/ Generation is showing -- but I too digress -- the working thesis that "Bike Week attendance is declining because the younger generation cannot afford as many/as pricey activities". I beg to differ -- they simply don't give a crap about Bike Week -- thus why most attendee's are silver haired !!




.
Exactly right. I work with a number of associates right out of school...they are bright but culturally quite different than our generation.
  1. For the most part they prefer to live in Boston. They want everything within walking or public transportation reach.
  2. They don't even own cars...many of them don't have a license and others (who do) don't actively drive.
  3. Social interaction is different than our generation...technology and local interests define social interaction and they tend to stay within bounds.
  4. They do make decent money, however their spending choices are much different than ours (were). In some cases, rent and student loans limit disposable income...in other cases motorcycles and bike week are not in their generational interests.

Just my observations.

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Old 06-20-2018, 09:34 PM   #120
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BW is over: how'd it go?

Boom, bust, or ??
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Old 06-21-2018, 07:30 AM   #121
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Exactly right. I work with a number of associates right out of school...they are bright but culturally quite different than our generation.
  1. For the most part they prefer to live in Boston. They want everything within walking or public transportation reach.
  2. They don't even own cars...many of them don't have a license and others (who do) don't actively drive.
  3. Social interaction is different than our generation...technology and local interests define social interaction and they tend to stay within bounds.
  4. They do make decent money, however their spending choices are much different than ours (were). In some cases, rent and student loans limit disposable income...in other cases motorcycles and bike week are not in their generational interests.

Just my observations.

Jetskier
In most cases their work is different also. The majority of them don't work with their hands, they work with their minds.
Our generation was the mechanical generation, theirs is the electronics generation. We dreamt of building things. They dream of buying things, but not motorcycles.
They don't want to get their hands dirty. Invest in companies that produce hand sanitizer.
Those are my observations.
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Old 06-21-2018, 10:02 AM   #122
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We dreamt of building things. They dream of buying things.
They don't want to get their hands dirty. Invest in companies that produce hand sanitizer.
Those are my observations.
Astute observation which is why the blue collar trades as a whole are not considered a viable career option, fewer are doing it these days and kids are indoctrinated to think a higher education and a "professional" job is the only way to be successful. In fact many of those highly educated trend to smugly look down on these folks as second class citizens which is a shame. Just because somebody makes a living with their hands doesn't mean they are any less of a human as a result and I would argue many are quite talented in what they do even if they can't write a single line of computer code or aren't the best at calculating their balance sheets.

Funny thing is the guys in the trades are making as much if not more than a lot of so called "professional" jobs.
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Old 06-21-2018, 10:18 AM   #123
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Astute observation which is why the blue collar trades as a whole are not considered a viable career option, fewer are doing it these days and kids are indoctrinated to think a higher education and a "professional" job is the only way to be successful. In fact many of those highly educated trend to smugly look down on these folks as second class citizens which is a shame. Just because somebody makes a living with their hands doesn't mean they are any less of a human as a result and I would argue many are quite talented in what they do even if they can't write a single line of computer code or aren't the best at calculating their balance sheets.

Funny thing is the guys in the trades are making as much if not more than a lot of so called "professional" jobs.
Correct and then they moan and complain when they have to pay a plumber or electrician their hourly rates and the less people coming into the trades like these will mean even higher costs for these services.
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Old 06-21-2018, 10:45 AM   #124
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Astute observation which is why the blue collar trades as a whole are not considered a viable career option, fewer are doing it these days and kids are indoctrinated to think a higher education and a "professional" job is the only way to be successful. In fact many of those highly educated trend to smugly look down on these folks as second class citizens which is a shame. Just because somebody makes a living with their hands doesn't mean they are any less of a human as a result and I would argue many are quite talented in what they do even if they can't write a single line of computer code or aren't the best at calculating their balance sheets.

Funny thing is the guys in the trades are making as much if not more than a lot of so called "professional" jobs.
Not only are they making as much or more but they get started in their career years earlier and without a bunch of student loan debt. Mike Rowe has been pitching the trades as a career for years. Just look at all the threads here from people desperate to hire a contractor.
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Old 06-21-2018, 11:24 AM   #125
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From bike week to financial advice to....
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Old 06-21-2018, 11:41 AM   #126
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Default Things are different

I think Jetskier nailed it. I see it with my kids. No interest in boating, motorcycling, snowmobiling, even though I tried hard to get them to do like and enjoy these activities. When we were kids, we used to build forts, go-karts, motorized bikes. We had three channels on TV (five if you include 38 and 56) and no video games. Kids now are more interested in technology. I grew up in the Weirs where my parents owned cottages along Weirs Boulevard, and have been a part of Bike Week for 40+ years. I don't think economics has anything to do with the lack of interest in Bike Week. Changing interests is the reason.
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Old 06-21-2018, 01:06 PM   #127
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It is so true. We desperately need kids to go into the trades. Also, there is such a truck driver shortage that the warehouses are backing up. Somebody needs to pay attention to this problem. Maybe perception needs to be swayed? I do hear a lot more lately about kids shouldn't go to college just to go to college.
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Old 06-21-2018, 01:50 PM   #128
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Default A huge transition

There are big changes afoot in the economy that are accelerating. Production of goods gets cheaper while provision of services is becoming more expensive. Simple services/labor will be taken over by automation while skilled services are in greater demand and at greater cost. The changes are happening too fast for many folks to adapt to. There is a skilled tradesman gap that isnt being filled yet even as many other jobs require greater secondary education & computer skills. Health care sits at the nexus of greater education needs and skilled service so the cost of it is exploding. Truck drivers are about to be replaced by automation. Burger flippers & floor sweepers same thing. Skilled craftsman and direct personal care not so much.
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Old 06-21-2018, 02:09 PM   #129
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Default New hobbies...

The dwindling attendance at bike week may be due to a transition of hobbies of younger folks. As mentioned earlier 3 tv channels & no social media made for more exploratory fun. While bass fishing is a new high school sport! the population of fishermen is becoming a more graybeard dominated thing. Wherever I've fished with my teenage son we've been enough of an 'oddity' to make strangers comment how nice it it to see a father & son fishing together. Even got a similar comment at AJs when I was there with my son. This was a common thing to see when I was young. Also now there seems to be many more solitary people fishing in boats these days. I think the outdoors is losing out to the indoors poulated by electronics....
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Old 06-21-2018, 06:19 PM   #130
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"Theyíre more likely than previous generations to attend collegeówhich means theyíre more likely to have student debt. That, naturally, leads to less discretionary income. ďThe difference between $15K and $26K of student debt is $130/month, which is equivalent to a monthly loan payment on a ~$8,000 bike,Ē the analysts wrote."

https://www.barrons.com/articles/mot...-it-1523632340

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Old 06-22-2018, 07:29 AM   #131
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Whither the future of Motorcycle Week?

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...7ecb7922c.html
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Old 06-22-2018, 07:33 AM   #132
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I do think that over the years it's spread out more over the Lakes Region and beyond. I think it used to be centered more at Weirs and we didn't see as many over here as we do now.
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Old 06-22-2018, 09:01 AM   #133
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I do think that over the years it's spread out more over the Lakes Region and beyond. I think it used to be centered more at Weirs and we didn't see as many over here as we do now.
I have written the same for years on this forum, there is no question that that is the case. We went to the Weirs once during bike week. I won't go to the "Road House" tent where you pay a cover charge for the pleasure of buying $6 beer!

There were thousands of bikes out and about- the Weirs is no longer the epicenter of NH bike week.
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Old 06-22-2018, 05:55 PM   #134
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I have written the same for years on this forum, there is no question that that is the case. We went to the Weirs once during bike week. I won't go to the "Road House" tent where you pay a cover charge for the pleasure of buying $6 beer!

There were thousands of bikes out and about- the Weirs is no longer the epicenter of NH bike week.
But but...the beer girls!
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Old 06-22-2018, 07:05 PM   #135
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It used to be a nice 3 day week-end, now it has been dragged out to 10 days.
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Old 06-23-2018, 08:04 AM   #136
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It used to be a nice 3 day week-end, now it has been dragged out to 10 days.
I agree. Something changed when they went to Bike WEEK!!
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Old 06-23-2018, 08:19 AM   #137
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When did they change it from 3 days to 10 days?


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Old 06-23-2018, 08:36 AM   #138
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Default 1991

It started in 1916. The number of participants grew each year as did the eventís duration. Over time, the rally blossomed into a week-long event, eventually suffering in attendance and popularity after getting wrapped up in the upheavals of the 60ís.

The rally reverted to a 3-day weekend and would remain so until 1991, when organizers revived the week-long event after seeing the success of Sturgisí 50th Anniversary Rally in 1990.

In 1991 Laconia Motorcycle Week reclaimed the support of local businesses and the AMA as a week-long rally and the oldest gypsy tour in the country.
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Old 06-23-2018, 09:00 AM   #139
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It started in 1916. The number of participants grew each year as did the eventís duration. Over time, the rally blossomed into a week-long event, eventually suffering in attendance and popularity after getting wrapped up in the upheavals of the 60ís.

The rally reverted to a 3-day weekend and would remain so until 1991, when organizers revived the week-long event after seeing the success of Sturgisí 50th Anniversary Rally in 1990.

In 1991 Laconia Motorcycle Week reclaimed the support of local businesses and the AMA as a week-long rally and the oldest gypsy tour in the country.
If this was the 95th then how could it have started in 1916? That would make it 102.
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Old 06-23-2018, 09:12 AM   #140
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It started in 1916. The number of participants grew each year as did the eventís duration. Over time, the rally blossomed into a week-long event, eventually suffering in attendance and popularity after getting wrapped up in the upheavals of the 60ís.



The rally reverted to a 3-day weekend and would remain so until 1991, when organizers revived the week-long event after seeing the success of Sturgisí 50th Anniversary Rally in 1990.



In 1991 Laconia Motorcycle Week reclaimed the support of local businesses and the AMA as a week-long rally and the oldest gypsy tour in the country.


Great history. Thank you Tilton


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Old 06-23-2018, 10:33 AM   #141
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If this was the 95th then how could it have started in 1916? That would make it 102.
There were a couple of years that it was canceled probably a few years were lost during WWII, and more notably the (1966 or 1967?) races were canceled due to the riots the previous years.

The races / original weekend event drastically changed after the riot in the mid 60's. I casually followed motor cycle racing back then when I was a teen and attended some of those races.

The states response to the riot was to bring in a huge and overwhelming law enforcement presence and completely eliminate off road side camping. No mater what you were driving back then if you stopped "anywhere" even for a "minute" on the side of the road (after the riot year) even if you were broken down they would tow you away to eliminate large motorcycle clubs gathering that usually fought with each other from forming that they knew they could not control. A lot of effort was to made to make sure anyone who came and planed to stay overnight or any length of time had to have a paid place to stay.


Some great old newspaper articles here at weirsbeach.com
http://www.weirsbeach.com/Largejpgs/weirsriot.html

A few weeks latter article from LIFE magazine. July 1965
https://books.google.com/books?id=T1...page&q&f=false


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Old 06-23-2018, 12:09 PM   #142
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Default Roadside Camping. ⛺️

Years ago, people would camp out on a variety of sites along Route 106. Residents would sit in their front yards to watch the bikers pass by. 🏍
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Old 06-23-2018, 12:34 PM   #143
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Years ago, people would camp out on a variety of sites along Route 106. Residents would sit in their front yards to watch the bikers pass by. ��
Absolutely correct, but that's where a lot of the problems came from. People would just pull off to the side of the road, set up a tent and pull out a sleeping bag and did not care who's property it was.

Some people would rent there property, but with so many people they had no control over what was happening and no means to control things once the drinking began.

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Old 06-23-2018, 05:08 PM   #144
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It is my feeling that there are many young people in this area who know that the trades offer a very viable life style. Unfortunately, many of these young people come from environments that neither know of, or understand, the supporting monetary avenues available to them to help them create a justifiable resume. Many of them think they'll simply start their own "hands-on" business- competing with each other until the law of Social Darwinism takes over.

Besides, the news tells us everyday that young people just don't want to stay in country living, and that we are on a course where we won't be able to sustain a viable work force.

Hey. Trades fees will go up! Stay!!!
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Old 06-23-2018, 06:24 PM   #145
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It is my feeling that there are many young people in this area who know that the trades offer a very viable life style. Unfortunately, many of these young people come from environments that neither know of, or understand, the supporting monetary avenues available to them to help them create a justifiable resume. Many of them think they'll simply start their own "hands-on" business- competing with each other until the law of Social Darwinism takes over.

Besides, the news tells us everyday that young people just don't want to stay in country living, and that we are on a course where we won't be able to sustain a viable work force.

Hey. Trades fees will go up! Stay!!!
Are you saying they won't know how to run a business? Not sure what you mean by monetary avenues to create a resume?
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Old 06-23-2018, 09:38 PM   #146
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Kids these days.

They don't want to own motorcycles.

They prefer living in urban environments.

They want white collar not blue collar jobs.

They don't enjoy casino gambling.

And to turn the world upside down, look how they date: back in the day you met someone in a bar, took them home, **** and then decided whether you want to see them again; now they meet online and get to know each other pretty well before actually meeting.

Oh, the horror!
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Old 06-24-2018, 01:32 PM   #147
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There were a couple of years that it was canceled probably a few years were lost during WWII, and more notably the (1966 or 1967?) races were canceled due to the riots the previous years.

The races / original weekend event drastically changed after the riot in the mid 60's. I casually followed motor cycle racing back then when I was a teen and attended some of those races.

The states response to the riot was to bring in a huge and overwhelming law enforcement presence and completely eliminate off road side camping. No mater what you were driving back then if you stopped "anywhere" even for a "minute" on the side of the road (after the riot year) even if you were broken down they would tow you away to eliminate large motorcycle clubs gathering that usually fought with each other from forming that they knew they could not control. A lot of effort was to made to make sure anyone who came and planed to stay overnight or any length of time had to have a paid place to stay.


Some great old newspaper articles here at weirsbeach.com
http://www.weirsbeach.com/Largejpgs/weirsriot.html

A few weeks latter article from LIFE magazine. July 1965
https://books.google.com/books?id=T1...page&q&f=false

My sister was at the Weirs back then with my parents car. The bikers kept rocking it back and forth. Everything ended well though.
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Old 06-24-2018, 09:17 PM   #148
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Are you saying they won't know how to run a business? Not sure what you mean by monetary avenues to create a resume?
I didn't mean to imply that they won't know how to run a business. Some are born with innate abilities while others are not Of course, Social Darwinism dictates survival of the fittest. Young people who seek out scholarships, apprenticeships or any other programs that will enhance their knowledge, experience and ability will have an upper hand on their peers who, even with good intentions and work ethic, will mostly be weeded out if they think working summers as a kid qualifies them to compete.

With the forecasting of a drop in trades people coming up, I bet some established folks would be willing to hire the right person for lower pay while offering an education unaffordable to many, otherwise.

If they haven't gotten themselves to a point where they can afford to own a business, they don't need to know how to run one.

That's all I meant.
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Old 06-24-2018, 10:12 PM   #149
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I didn't mean to imply that they won't know how to run a business. Some are born with innate abilities while others are not Of course, Social Darwinism dictates survival of the fittest. Young people who seek out scholarships, apprenticeships or any other programs that will enhance their knowledge, experience and ability will have an upper hand on their peers who, even with good intentions and work ethic, will mostly be weeded out if they think working summers as a kid qualifies them to compete.

With the forecasting of a drop in trades people coming up, I bet some established folks would be willing to hire the right person for lower pay while offering an education unaffordable to many, otherwise.

If they haven't gotten themselves to a point where they can afford to own a business, they don't need to know how to run one.

That's all I meant.
I know it's late but..HUH
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Old 06-25-2018, 05:46 AM   #150
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I didn't mean to imply that they won't know how to run a business. Some are born with innate abilities while others are not Of course, Social Darwinism dictates survival of the fittest. Young people who seek out scholarships, apprenticeships or any other programs that will enhance their knowledge, experience and ability will have an upper hand on their peers who, even with good intentions and work ethic, will mostly be weeded out if they think working summers as a kid qualifies them to compete.

With the forecasting of a drop in trades people coming up, I bet some established folks would be willing to hire the right person for lower pay while offering an education unaffordable to many, otherwise.

If they haven't gotten themselves to a point where they can afford to own a business, they don't need to know how to run one.

That's all I meant.
I know lots of great craftsmen who don't either take the time or know how to run their business which is too bad. So I think I agree with you.
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Old 07-04-2018, 01:40 PM   #151
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"Do you think if NH had a helmet law that it would hurt Bike week?"

Yes, I think it would have an impact. I own 3 motorcycles, have raced in at least 10 different states (including Loudon and Daytona) and have attended many Bike Weeks here.

My feeling is that being able to remove your helmet is a motivator for a certain segment of the MC population. I would NEVER consider riding a bike without a helmet, but recognize that there are some that think otherwise.

I suggest NH consider implementing a helmet law. Bike Week is important, but in the big picture helmet use is much more important.
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Old 07-05-2018, 07:07 AM   #152
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I think that would be the nail in the coffin. I don't ride anymore but I'd be pissed if I HAD to wear a helmet.
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