Beach Sand Question

[AC2717]

Hi Guys,
we are looking at putting new sand ontop of our existing beach. There has been a sandy beach here for over 50 years where we are. just want to replenish it as it is getting dirt like and there are weeds starting to grow.

This is in Laconia,
has anyone gone through the process in Laconia yet with this now that there are all these ridiculous organizations that need to sign off on things.
Does it involve EPA, Town, Shoreline Protection Act, and anything else anyone can think of who would possibly object to our freedoms???

[LIforrelaxin]

I do believe you need a permit from the NH DES....

[songkrai]

Not an expert in this arena.
There are probably strict laws presently.
Did have replacement sand for one beach couple times in past.
All that was done was an order of sand from a contractor with dump truck. Dumped sand in driveway. Wheel barrow sand to beach.
Warning about sand. The sand that came was not beach sand. Different sand. And some pesky but not harmful natural NH weed was constantly popping up in sand.
Actual beach sand or river sand was later recommended. Don't even know if one can obtain such today.

[Mirror Lake's BB]

DES outlines the reasons why adding sand to a lake is detrimental including the fact that some sand contains phosphorus which is always bad for a lake:

http://des.nh.gov/organization/commi...ents/bb-15.pdf

In Maine it's illegal:

http://www.yorkswcd.org/ADDING%20SAN...%20BEACHES.pdf

[Onshore]

Beach replenishment does not require a Shoreland Permit. It does require a Wetlands Permit from DES. You can put up to 10 cu yd of sand down using the Wetlands Permit by Notification process. If you want to put down more than 10 cu yd of sand you need to obtain a Wetlands Permit using the Standard Application form. The State of NH's Programatic General Permit will cover any federal concerns. You will need to check with the City about local requirements.

[Pineedles]

Would dredging solve the problem? Is it even allowed? Of course if you couldn't get a bucket loader down to the beach area you would have to bring one in on a barge.

[secondcurve]

The DES views dredging as a big no, no. I'm sure Shorethings can confirm this.

[Onshore]

DES would prefer that dredging is not included in this project. Including a dredge aspect in the project would complicate the issue. Dredge more than 20 cu yd and the law requires Governor and Executive Council approval of the project.

[AC2717]

Originally Posted by shore things

Beach replenishment does not require a Shoreland Permit. It does require a Wetlands Permit from DES. You can put up to 10 cu yd of sand down using the Wetlands Permit by Notification process. If you want to put down more than 10 cu yd of sand you need to obtain a Wetlands Permit using the Standard Application form. The State of NH's Programatic General Permit will cover any federal concerns. You will need to check with the City about local requirements.

So SHorethings,
We do not need a shoreland Permit but a Wetlands permit by notification. How does that work? I do not believe it would come close to 10 cubic yards

then look into NH's Programatic General Permit

then talk to city

[Onshore]

Wetlands jurisdiction under RSA 482-A includes surface waters [U]and their banks[U]. Under RSA 483-B Shoreland jurisdiction starts at the shoreline and proceeds back 250 ft. This means the area defined as the bank is a jurisdictional overlap area. Rather than require 2 permits for the same work language was added into the Shoreland Act to specify that work in the overlap area only needs a Wetlands permit. Wetlands is the older and more stringent requirement and thus it became the permit that would be required.

Do not worry about the Programmatic General permit. This permit is already in place. Because NH's regs meet Army Corps of Engineer standards the Applicants that receive state level permits are considered to be covered under the Programmatic General Permit and do not need separate Corps review. There are a few exceptions to this but your project is nowhere near big enough to be one of them. The ACOE reviews DES permitting weekly and may send you a confirmation of compliance letter after you have received your Wetlands permit.

I would check with the Town/City first. Don't spend money on a State application if the town might say no to your project.

[AC2717]

Thank you Shore Things
I would not be surprised if the town said no, even though, the beach has been there since the 30's or so.

Not to be negative, but this is such a joke. even though I pay taxes for the land, I still have to get permission to keep it up and spend money on permits to do so.

[Bear Islander]

At least you will have the satisfaction of knowing you are doing things the Right Way by using the "Permit by Notification" method. That is opposed to the Wrong Way by using the "Permit by Night" method whereby you buy the sand in bags and spread it after dark.

[Jonas Pilot]

Originally Posted by AC2717

Thank you Shore Things
I would not be surprised if the town said no, even though, the beach has been there since the 30's or so.

Not to be negative, but this is such a joke. even though I pay taxes for the land, I still have to get permission to keep it up and spend money on permits to do so.

I bet it can be very frustrating for the lake front property owner to have to deal with all the rules and regulations involved when you need (want) to get something done. But, even though the rules can be a pain in the butt they can keep you're neighbor from doing something that could ruin you're whole New Hampshire experience.

[Lakegeezer]

Originally Posted by AC2717

Thank you Shore Things
I would not be surprised if the town said no, even though, the beach has been there since the 30's or so.

Not to be negative, but this is such a joke. even though I pay taxes for the land, I still have to get permission to keep it up and spend money on permits to do so.

With perhaps 10 thousand properties lining the Winni shoreline, we need regulations to prevent property owners from polluting the lake. There would be nothing wrong with dumping sand on a shoreline beach, if it didn't wash phosphorus and sediment into the state's waters. That is not a joke. The lake is still pristine when looked at as a whole, but parts of it are in trouble. The shoreline protection act is still a work in progress, but it is much more about protecting the shoreline than an active attempt to extract money from property owners. It would be wonderful if there was more education and less apathy about how to manage a shoreline property for minimal impact to the lake.

[RLW]

Originally Posted by shore things

Beach replenishment does not require a Shoreland Permit. It does require a Wetlands Permit from DES. You can put up to 10 cu yd of sand down using the Wetlands Permit by Notification process. If you want to put down more than 10 cu yd of sand you need to obtain a Wetlands Permit using the Standard Application form. The State of NH's Programatic General Permit will cover any federal concerns. You will need to check with the City about local requirements.

I'm trying to find the rule that is written pertaining to this, but the last time that I wanted to add sand to the beach I had to jump through hoops to do it. At that time it was a max of 6 yards and then it could only be done every 3 years at a cost of $50 for each permit which one had to supply a topography map of your area, certified notification to both next door lot owners and a picture of the area that it was going to be put into. I have a copy of all the paperwork some place and when I locate it I will post the areas that I'm incorrect if any.

[Winnisquamguy]

Originally Posted by shore things

DES would prefer that dredging is not included in this project. Including a dredge aspect in the project would complicate the issue. Dredge more than 20 cu yd and the law requires Governor and Executive Council approval of the project.

When they drop Lake Winnisquam every other year for cleanups and what not do (remove sand) you need to get a permit for that? If I was to go and take a few scoops of the sand and bring it back onto the beach what permits would I need?

[Onshore]

Pursuant to Wetlands Rule Env-Wt 303.05 (h), Hand raking of leaves or other organic debris from the shoreline or lakebed can be done without a wetlands permit provided that:
(1) At the time raking is done, the area raked is exposed by drawdown; or
(2) Raking does not disturb vegetative roots and is limited to 900 square feet of area.

Please note that this provision is limited to leaves and organic debris. As soon as one starts to move soil a permit is required. There is currently no minimum impact provision for any excavation or fill within lakebeds. The standard application route is the only one available. If one is removing less than 20 cu yd of material, the project is classified as a minor impact project. If one is removing 20 cu yd or more then the project is classified as a major impact project and requires Governor and Executive Council approval. Any application to place fill such as sand within the lakebed is automatically classified a major and in need of Governor and Executive Council approval as well.

[Lakepilot]

Originally Posted by RLW

I'm trying to find the rule that is written pertaining to this, but the last time that I wanted to add sand to the beach I had to jump through hoops to do it. At that time it was a max of 6 yards and then it could only be done every 3 years at a cost of $50 for each permit which one had to supply a topography map of your area, certified notification to both next door lot owners and a picture of the area that it was going to be put into. I have a copy of all the paperwork some place and when I locate it I will post the areas that I'm incorrect if any.

That's what I remember too!

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by shore things

Pursuant to Wetlands Rule Env-Wt 303.05 (h), Hand raking of leaves or other organic debris from the shoreline or lakebed can be done without a wetlands permit provided that:
(1) At the time raking is done, the area raked is exposed by drawdown; or
(2) Raking does not disturb vegetative roots and is limited to 900 square feet of area.

Please note that this provision is limited to leaves and organic debris. As soon as one starts to move soil a permit is required. There is currently no minimum impact provision for any excavation or fill within lakebeds. The standard application route is the only one available. If one is removing less than 20 cu yd of material, the project is classified as a minor impact project. If one is removing 20 cu yd or more then the project is classified as a major impact project and requires Governor and Executive Council approval. Any application to place fill such as sand within the lakebed is automatically classified a major and in need of Governor and Executive Council approval as well.

Unfortunately, while well intended, the rules have gone way overboard and defy logic with their complexity. For years the state allowed folks to build monster homes (small castles many would say) like the Baher Estate with heavy clear cutting and sweeping lawns. Now folks have to stop and think about raking up a few leaves from the front of their properties. My cousin wanted to put a perched beach in front of his home. I think he had something like 300 feet of water frontage and the small perched beach (maybe 30 feet across) was positioned right in front of the house in the center of property. The state made him start with a survey before installing the perched beach!! It cost him a small fortune!

[Pineedles]

The rules are bull crap. I have personally seen so many infractions it would make your head spin. I tried twice to point these out and was rebuffed both times so I don't even bother anymore. Money talks.

[jonr]

Originally Posted by RLW

I'm trying to find the rule that is written pertaining to this, but the last time that I wanted to add sand to the beach I had to jump through hoops to do it. At that time it was a max of 6 yards and then it could only be done every 3 years at a cost of $50 for each permit which one had to supply a topography map of your area, certified notification to both next door lot owners and a picture of the area that it was going to be put into. I have a copy of all the paperwork some place and when I locate it I will post the areas that I'm incorrect if any.

The regulations are at http://des.nh.gov/organization/commi...ules/index.htm ... as someone said they are very complicated.

Env-Wt 506.01 says "The following projects shall qualify for the permit by notification process ... (9) The replenishment of an existing beach that meets the criteria in Env-Wt 303.04(aa)"

Env-Wt 303.04(aa) says: "Replenishment of sand on an existing beach, provided:
(1) No sand shall be placed below the high water line or full pond elevation;
(2) No work shall be conducted in or adjacent to prime wetland;
(3) No more than 10 cubic yards of sand shall be used; and
(4) The beach replenishment shall not exceed the limit of one replenishment in any 6 year period;"

Be careful to chase down the definitions of the worlds used in case they are defined Env-Wt 101 or any relevant statutes (RSAs) (e.g. RSA 482-A:15 for "prime wetlands.") because they might not mean what you would think.

Env-Wt 506.02 and 506.03 describe procedures for permit by notification, which involve notifying the town (who sends a copy to DES) and what procedures to follow after the completion of the project.

[Amy L]

What are we allowed to do to prevent erosion? With all the rain this spring, our land continues to wash down into the lake.

Any advice? Right now our lot remains heavy with trees and rocks - no grass ever planted.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by Amy L

What are we allowed to do to prevent erosion? With all the rain this spring, our land continues to wash down into the lake.

Any advice? Right now our lot remains heavy with trees and rocks - no grass ever planted.

I've seen a similar situation where the state denied a homeowner's request to buttress his property with large rocks to stop such occurrences. Maybe what I saw was a one-off situation but I don't thinks so.

[Onshore]

Originally Posted by Amy L

What are we allowed to do to prevent erosion? With all the rain this spring, our land continues to wash down into the lake.

Any advice? Right now our lot remains heavy with trees and rocks - no grass ever planted.

It sounds like your problem is stormwater run-off related. will any of the info found at this link help?

http://des.nh.gov/organization/commi...es-wd-10-8.pdf

[SAMIAM]

We have so many regulations now that I'm affraid to rake the pine needles off the beach......don't even dare to kill poison ivy.