New boat, new issues,,, Suggestions ?

[bigdog]

New boat , new issues....

The facts... Boat is MY 2000' CC, engine 2000 Johnson 90HP 2-sstoke.
FYI.... I've been boating on Winnie for over 40 yrs,, have owned many diff types of boats..

As this boat is new to me, and not knowing what the prior owner had done or not done at end of last season, I took some precautions before maiden launching, and did the normal basics: Charged battery, new Fuel filter, changed spark plugs, added fresh gas (89 octance), and added some 'Lucas' fuel additive at the advise of my mechanic. Gas tank was half full to begin.

Launched late in the day yesterday around 2pm, from Gilford Town docks.
Headed out toward Sleeper's Island and Minge cove to anchor and swim, didn't want to push the boat or engine on iniital outting. Engine was purring along fine, and doing only about 20MPH. Conditions were fine, ligh wind, and not much chop, as I was running along the shoreline. Between Belknap Point and Elacoya State Park, then engine started to cough,choke, so I turned boat around and started to head back to the Gilford ramp, when my engine died.

Just about that time, the wind started to kick up severly, and white-caps started forming. Tried to restart engine, and it would turn over for a few seconds, then died again. This action was repeated about a dozen times. As I was only about 100 yds off shore, I feared that the wind and waves would crash me into the shore, or boats moored nearby. I set my anchor immediately, luckily it set w/o issues. Engine would just not keep running after many attempts. My first thought 'bad' gas ! I then removed my fuel filter and dumped the gas into a container, then reattached, with the thought something had clogged filter, or water in gas? Engine still would not keep running after doing this.

Weather by this time was getting extremly worse, waves build, and taking some 3' waves over the bow, sky was darkening over by Center Harbor, and heading in my direction. My wife and grandson on verge of panic, I called Tow Boat US to request a tow back to Glendale dock. By the time they arrived (15 min), I had engine runing w/o stalling, and was able to dock under my own power. A close call, I would not want to experience anytime soon! A BIG THANK YOU to Captain Dan from Tow Booat US.for rhis help and experience in a very bad situation and conditions, a true professional !

At the dock, the engine ran fine for 15 min w/o stalling, and I was revving engine w/o any reaction, then shut it down, almost seemed like the problem disappeared and non-existent ?

Back to the boat issue, Tow Boat US, told me they had many similiar engine related emergencies like mine, since the beginning of season, to believe gas related, and said situation usually goes away, after several filter changes to remove sediment in gas from winter storage or ethanol issues.

Maybe should have kept the old boat, it was running like a top !

A LONG story to ask 'What are your thoughts about engine issue" ?

Thanks for listening....
Bigdog

[ishoot308]

Bigdog;

I agree with Captain Dan and also think you may sucked up some sediment or something else from your gas tank. Drain you gas tank completely if possible to be certain.

I can't imagine being stuck out in that squall yesterday without power. Your very lucky and your quick thinking about dropping anchor probably saved your boat from sinking and your family from a wet swim or heaven forbid something worse!

Glad you made it back O.K.

Dan

[bigdog]

Responding back to iShoot308...

Wish I was closeer to Welch, I would have dropped in, or in my case drifted by..... I can laugh now about my experience, but at the time, I was close to panic, but had to keep a face of convidence and control with rest of family onboard.

Yep, that was about as close a call to disaster as I want to experience.
I've also been boating on the ocean many times, but let me tell you that 'Winnie' can throw things at you on a moments wanring, that you may not necessarily have to same senario at the ocean.

If I could drain my gas tank easily, I wooul attempt, but that would be no easy chore. Have about 3/4 tank of gas now, just going to fill to full, and add some some Startron.

What do think about adding some water-eating additive like ISO-HEET brand containing isopropanol ? Suppose to be one of the best products, for water removal in fuel.

Also will carry a spare fuel filter onboard at all times, lessons learned !

Thanks,
Bigdog

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by bigdog

Responding back to iShoot308...

Wish I was closeer to Welch, I would have dropped in, or in my case drifted by..... I can laugh now about my experience, but at the time, I was close to panic, but had to keep a face of convidence and control with rest of family onboard.

Yep, that was about as close a call to disaster as I want to experience.
I've also been boating on the ocean many times, but let me tell you that 'Winnie' can throw things at you on a moments wanring, that you may not necessarily have to same senario at the ocean.

If I could drain my gas tank easily, I wooul attempt, but that would be no easy chore. Have about 3/4 tank of gas now, just going to fill to full, and add some some Startron.

What do think about adding some water-eating additive like ISO-HEET brand containing isopropanol ? Suppose to be one of the best products, for water removal in fuel.

Also will carry a spare fuel filter onboard at all times, lessons learned !

Thanks,
Bigdog

Bigdog;

I don't think I would add anything to your fuel except regular stabilzer (stabil, startron, etc.) at this point. Just fill it with fresh gas and check and replace your filters as needed until it clears. You may have already cleared it. Hopefully you have a secondary water fuel separator filter in line before your motor. With ethanol gas some manufacturers are recommending / requiring it. I know my Evinrude etec does.

Good luck and if your ever in trouble again out there, my dock is always open to anyone who needs assistance.

Dan

[chipj29]

If your engine is carbed, you might need to get the carb cleaned.
If not carbed, then it could be a clogged fuel injector.

[bigdog]

FYI... a reliable mechanic suggested to me I add Lucas fuel additive to fuel
as a tuneup for engine on initial launch, so I took advice. Now I'm thinking that may have possbily created my issue? Dunno ? Maybe?

Think in the future, I may use Seafoam when filling up fuel tank, as a cleaner for carbs. Have used in the past with success.
I know Seafoam is not really a fuel stabilizer as I understand but cleans carbs, injectors and lubricates upper cylinders.

But wondering.. if Seafoan or any other similiar carb injector cleaner loosens up crud and varnish,etc., won't all thta stuff go into the carbs to possibly create blockage in the process, or is all that crud dissolved?

Last, can Starttron be added with Seafoam?

Just wondering......

Thanks,
Bigdog

[songkrai]

You could be lucky if it is just water in tank.

Todays outbord engine is made up of many electronic parts. Many/some from Mexico and China.

You may need to take to a qualified mechanic and have all tested and checked out.

Proper care and proper storage is crucial to the life of any boat. I see too many sitting in yards covered with a cheap Korea/China tarp. Spring for inside storeage or at least shrink wrap. And have the engine professionally winterized. Yes, there are a few sailors out there the know how to do all themselves. But the average boater does not.

[Rangervx]

there may be more than 1 fuel filter / water seperator on that engine...if so, replace the other one you didn't replace. if it is a carb engine, which i think it is...i would replace the accel. pump / fuel pump...should basically be a diaphram at carb...common prob on carb outboards...let us know the final outcome plz.

[Blue Thunder]

Sounds like a combination of things, not the least of which is E10 fuel and older carbureted 2 stroke outboards. You are definitely on the right track with the seafoam. I use it in everything I own that has an engine.

BT

[Dave R]

I'd get a spare filter or two and take it out on a calm day to burn as much fuel as possible out of the tank. Matter of fact, take a spare can and run the tank dry... Then replace the gas with fresh and keep it stabilized. Does the engine allow you to connect an 6 gallon fuel tank? Perhaps procure one of them and have on hand in case you run into the issue again.

[Billy Bob]

Well I see a little trend , put my boat in , 2 year old Evenrude 70 , ran " ok " slow , speeded it up and it stalled out , must have pussed the bad gas in ? Under warentee but still $600 bucks latter, towing filters etc. its now fine .

injectors all messed up , needed filtes etc . all gas related . in 30 years of boating never had issues like these gas problems

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by Billy Bob

Well I see a little trend , put my boat in , 2 year old Evenrude 70 , ran " ok " slow , speeded it up and it stalled out , must have pussed the bad gas in ? Under warentee but still $600 bucks latter, towing filters etc. its now fine .

injectors all messed up , needed filtes etc . all gas related . in 30 years of boating never had issues like these gas problems

We have used Marine stabil in every tank of fuel since E-10 came out and never had a problem with our boats.

[bigdog]

Forum feedback.....

I tested the sample of gas I dumped from the fuel filter, by emptying into a clear jar. I would say this was at least 8oz. I let the jar sit for a few hours, to settle the contents.

The gas was clear but cloudy, could be the marine Sta-Bil, giving it that color, dunno? Also noticed about 1/8" of water sitting on the top of the gas, as well as a few black particles, the size of maybe a large pin heads. Certainly the water present in gas, as well as these few particles would make the engine run rough, and clog carb injectors jets.
Again, this was only the contents contained in fuel filter.

I think the issue may be solved, I least I hope this was the issue, TBD? Next step is to try to remove the water from the gas, then add fresh gas, by running engine as much as possible, hopefully w/o stalling.

From now on, will add Sta-Bil or Startron to gas at every fill.

Thanks,
Bigdog

[jrc]

water never sits on top of gas, that must be something else

[Blue Thunder]

Originally Posted by jrc

water never sits on top of gas, that must be something else

Agreed....gas floats on water, always. Bigdog you are definitely onto something if you have that much of any substance floating on the gas in the jar. Do whatever you can to get the fuel out of the tank. Don't run it through, you may damage something that becomes expensive.

If I were a betting man I'd say what you poured out of the FF WAS water and that was gas floating on the top with particles.

BT

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by Blue Thunder

Agreed....gas floats on water, always. Bigdog you are definitely onto something if you have that much of any substance floating on the gas in the jar. Do whatever you can to get the fuel out of the tank. Don't run it through, you may damage something that becomes expensive.

If I were a betting man I'd say what you poured out of the FF WAS water and that was gas floating on the top with particles.

BT

From my understanding the new E-10 gas absorbs water instead of it staying separated and settling to the bottom. This is especially dangerous to 2 stroke engines because it leans them out causing a melt down. This is why I always try to leave as little fuel in the tank as possible if the fuel is going to sit for a while unused, and then top off with fresh fuel when using.
My take is I’d rather dilute bad fuel with good fuel then have a full tank of possible bad fuel. Others still stick by a full tank being the best for long term storage. I guess whatever works but empty or very low fuel has worked for me so far.
I’ve even got my mom to keep her car at less then half a tank. It stays stored in the garage so it isn’t prone to large temp changes, is used rarely to run around town and god knows there are no shortage of gas stations in Nashua.
Good luck with your fuel issues, don’t forget to drain and wash out the bowl and if you can spray the carburetor down with cleaner if it is carbureted.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

Good luck with your fuel issues, don’t forget to drain and wash out the bowl and if you can spray the carburetor down with cleaner if it is carbureted.

His carburetors each have a nifty little port, with a one-way valve, that are sized to fit the red straw that comes with a can of carburetor cleaner. The port on each carb connects to the jets directly and often lets you clean them out without having to tear down the carbs. You just inert the red straw and give each carb a 1-2 second blast. you can see the cleaner gush out of the jets in the throat of the carb. It's a clever idea, hard to believe the same engineers came up with the mechanism for reconnecting the shift shaft on that motor...

[DickR]

The presence of ethanol in gasoline increases the solubility of water in the mix somewhat. Without ethanol, the solubility is very, very low. Still, the solubility of water in 10% ethanol is limited, and if there is more water present than will dissolve in the gasoline then a second liquid phase will exist in equilibrium with the saturated gasoline phase. The aqueous phase will be mostly water and ethanol, with very small amounts of the various hydrocarbon compounds that make up gasoline; it also will be heavier than the gasoline phase.

Here is one of many references on the subject:
http://www.fuel-testers.com/expirati...hanol_gas.html

There are many references also on the subject of what types of gasoline additives should or should not be used with E10.