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Old 07-02-2020, 07:17 PM   #1
TheProfessor
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Default Do You Change Automatic Transmission Fluid ?

Do you have your automatic transmission fluid changed as per manual?
Where do you go in the Lakes Region if you do have it changed?

There are some "lifetime" automatic transmission fluids. What is the "lifetime" in your owners manual? Does "lifetime" need to be changed if not mentioned in your owners manual?

From your owners manual what miles on odometer does the manual end?
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Old 07-02-2020, 09:51 PM   #2
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Ahhh...the eternal question!
I (and I mean in my opinion) have always been of the camp that you do not change your transmission fluid. My 2013 F150 has no “drain plug” so it’s not even an option to the owner. I’m sure that if a “dealer” or mechanic wanted to change the fluid, they would have the know how.
One of the reasons (in my opinion) is that today’s vehicles are “planned” to be obsolete after a “period” of ownership” and that the “trend” is to trade often for a newer vehicle. If the vehicle has “high mileage” (what the hell is high mileage in today’s world?) it goes to auction. Low mileage vehicles are wanted for resale by the dealers as they can screw you on a trade-in and make big $$ re-selling same.
As far as changing the fluid don’t mess with it if it is working correctly! Simple!

Last edited by Hillcountry; 07-03-2020 at 06:40 AM.
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Old 07-02-2020, 10:52 PM   #3
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Yes... and no...

I had a 2001 Ford Escape with about 99,000 miles on it.

In preparation for a long trip I let the Ford Dealer do a "Flush and Fill" of the transmission.

By 101,000 miles the transmission had failed and I had to have a factory remanufactured unit installed.

That experience sent me researching and my conclusions follow.

First,
Honda says never "flush" because they say the seals cannot handle the pressure. They suggest three "drain and fills" with just a few miles of driving in between.

I wonder if other car brands should have the same practice.

Next,
Some on the web say flushing stirs up lots of crud from places where crud settles and sends it to places where crud does bad things. Prior to the 99k "service", my Escape had never had its transmission fluid changed. I believe the flushing caused it to fail. I wish I had not asked for that.

But,
Some say it's ok to flush if you do it at regular intervals starting at low mileage. Are you feeling lucky? I wasn't.

But, but,
What if you just do drain and fills on a schedule? While this seems like a good plan there are some detractors on the web. They (you know, "them") say that there are particles in the old transmission fluid that help the clutches grip better thus allowing an older transmission to function better. Yeah, whatever...

So there you have it!

Should you flush? No.
Should you drain and fill? I guess if on schedule.
Should you let it mellow and drive it until it breaks? Probably.

P.S.
This advice comes with a five mile/five minute warranty.
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Old 07-03-2020, 04:56 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8gv View Post
Yes... and no...
P.S.
This advice comes with a five mile/five minute warranty.
That reminds me of a used car I bought. While signing the paperwork at the dealer they told me the car comes with no warranty and asked if I knew what that meant. I replied that I did. The manager then said "Let me explain: When you drive off the lot onto the street, if the car breaks into two pieces, you own both pieces. Do you understand?" Yup, got it.

About transmission fluid: I have had the fluid drained and replaced on vehicles at about 70,000 miles, only if I have used them for towing frequently. I just feel that towing places a significantly higher strain on the transmission.

I have a friend that tows trailers with a GMC pickup. About 80% of the miles he drives involve towing trailers that weigh about 2,000 pounds. His last two pickups have both had transmission failures at about 60,000 miles.
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Old 07-03-2020, 06:09 AM   #5
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Honda recommends a transmission fluid change for most models at 30,000 miles. The transmission pan only holds 1/3 of the total capacity, the other 2/3 stay in the torque converter. If the fluid is changed regularly, a triple change ( mentioned earlier) isn't needed. However, if it isn't, the fluid degrades to the point of causing something called " judder", a shaking, vibration sensation when the transmission is shifting at lower ( 20 to 30 mph) speeds. It's caused by the torque converter, which doesn't work well with old crappy fluid. The "triple change" mixes new fluid with old fluid, and after 3 changes most of the junk fluid is gone. Seems to be more of an issue with Pilots, Odysseys, and CRVs, and along with a needed software update usually does the trick. Oh, don't forget your rear differential fluid too!!

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Old 07-03-2020, 06:38 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiltonBB View Post
That reminds me of a used car I bought. While signing the paperwork at the dealer they told me the car comes with no warranty and asked if I knew what that meant. I replied that I did. The manager then said "Let me explain: When you drive off the lot onto the street, if the car breaks into two pieces, you own both pieces. Do you understand?" Yup, got it.

About transmission fluid: I have had the fluid drained and replaced on vehicles at about 70,000 miles, only if I have used them for towing frequently. I just feel that towing places a significantly higher strain on the transmission.

I have a friend that tows trailers with a GMC pickup. About 80% of the miles he drives involve towing trailers that weigh about 2,000 pounds. His last two pickups have both had transmission failures at about 60,000 miles.
Did it? Fall in two pieces when you drove off the lot?
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Old 07-03-2020, 08:40 AM   #7
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Definitely would take my car to Latch Key Auto Repair in Meredith, next to the Cumberland Farm store .... and spend 90-minutes over at the Meredith Public Library with a cup of coffee while it gets done.

The automatic transmission pan on the bottom is removed, filter replaced, all the gunk cleaned off, and new fluid added ..... is good to go for another 100,000 miles.
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Old 07-03-2020, 09:13 AM   #8
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Default Transmission Maintenance

Definitely go by the owner's manual.
No such thing as lifetime oil, however, it does not hurt to use top quality oil!
If the garage mentioned filter replacement, flush and refill, and the manual does not require, it is an option to think about. If you use the car 'normally', it's an option. HD use such as towing or high-speed driving, seasonal or little use, I suggest the full menu.
Never had a transmission replace since the '80s. I have a '98 318 Dakota I use as a tow vehicle and hauling stuff. 250K miles on the original tranny!
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Old 07-08-2020, 09:14 AM   #9
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As a mechanic of over 50 years it is recommended to change trans fluid every 30,000 miles BUT if your fluid is already really dirty then it's probably too late. Most trans fluid is red in color so if it is brown or black changing it will probably shorten it's lifespan.
Some newer vehicles don't recommend trans fluid changes and I would follow that guideline.
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Old 07-10-2020, 10:30 AM   #10
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Don't know much about other car manufacturers other than Toyota\Lexus but I can tell you if you own one be careful here.

In the mid 2000's Toyota started to introduce the concept of lifetime automatic transmission fluid put into a sealed transmission pan and NOT intended to be changed for the life of the vehicle under "normal" driving conditions. These were first introduced in the Lexus models and have since been worked into the Toyota line up. FYI my 07 Lexus IS 250 has one of these to give you an idea of how long they have been around. Now that said, the fluid CAN be changed and in some cases SHOULD be changed. These units take a special fluid otherwise known as Toyota WS ATF fluid. This is not typical ATF fluid and not compatible with conventional ATF. The process for changing it out is quite involved and not for the typical home gamer as there is no fill plug and you need some special tools and a level lift. You can drain it out but to backfill it requires a special tool to do so and it is backfilled until the fluid starts to drain out of the open plug. The vehicle is then started and allowed to warm up (with the plug OUT - there is a insert in the pan that must be removed to evacuate all the fluid and put back in to prevent the new fluid from escaping which when inserted will set the correct fill level the excess will overflow out the drain plug) and the temperature of the fluid has to reach a particular temp, then topped off again with the plug out until it begins to drip out. These transmissions cannot or should not be serviced by the average joe nor can they be "flushed" in the conventional sense as it will ruin them, in fact the FSM specifically states not to do this. It will destroy the electronic hydraulic valving which is responsible for the ultra smooth shifting. When should this stuff be changed? Well the jury is really out on this, for vehicles that are used for towing or outside normal use it is recommended this be done every 60K particularly important in trucks outfitted with this transmission. Otherwise never. I beg to differ on this concept however as like any fluid over time it does get dirty and can effect the operation of the transmission. When Lexus replaced the engine in my IS250 at just shy of 100K due to a CSB under recall - I asked the tech there while out in the shop looking at my engine all tore down about the transmission. He said don't worry about and stated unless there is a need to do it leave it alone. Said he could do it but there is no need. I had it done anyways. I have a buddy with a Landcruiser with this kind of sealed transmission, one day it started to shift funny and would slam into gear, the culprit, the fluid needed changing and at least on the LC, this is a common symptom of needing a fluid change and quite common.

With a conventional automatic transmission that takes non WS type transmission fluid, those should be done every 30K and it is imperative to use only Toyota T-IV fluid and nothing else or the clutch packs will be destroyed. Many independents don't know this or put in something that is supposed to be "compatible" only to find that folks are blowing transmissions left and right due to the wrong fluid being installed. The formulation of that fluid is such that it is impossible to make it compatible with every transmission fluid type out there. I don't care what it says one size fits all on the bottle - it's not worth dropping a transmission to find out it's simply not. The funny thing is going and getting factory fluid at the dealer is not terribly expensive, last case of it I bought it was about 5 bucks a quart.

Other manufacturers vary of course they will always recommend their own fluids and it's up to the owners to heed that advice or not. One thing you have to keep in mind is that as more and more advanced engineering and technology is put into the design of today's vehicles, simply dumping generic fluids in them is risking premature failure. Most cars are being designed to be as maintenance free as possible for the first 100K - beyond that is where you really need to be careful to do the required maintenance if your goal is to keep the vehicle for the long haul. The same can be said for coolant where many cars are coming with long life coolant - this stuff also is a special formulation draining it out and throwing in some generic stuff can and does in many cases create corrosion, attacks the gaskets and leads to premature failure.

I've put hundreds of thousands of miles on each Toyota\Lexus I've owned - to the amazement of many, but while I do believe these vehicles are extremely well engineered - that can only take you so far, they still require maintenance at some point or they will fail just like anything else.

There are some very competent independents out there if you prefer to bypass the dealer but I would highly recommend somebody who specializes in a certain make as this stuff is getting far to complicated to be a "generalist". I don't care how good somebody claims to be, all makes are to the point now where you can't just be mechanically inclined , pop the hood and start turning wrenches, or do so at your own peril. That may have been the case with stuff that is 20+ years old but not any more.

I hear it all the time well I drive such and such and put 300K and never changed this or that. Great, consider yourself lucky.
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Old 07-11-2020, 06:37 PM   #11
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Both of the Toyotas I've owned haven't had their ATF changed and it hasn't been an issue. I have my doubts I'm that lucky.

One was a 2005 V8 4Runner I sold with 255k miles and my current truck is a 2010 Tundra that just rolled 203k miles.

The 4Runner towed and went offroad a lot and the Tundra does a whole lot of towing. No hiccups to speak of in either vehicle.

With regards to changing the fluid, most vehicles have a trans cooler and the soft lines can be removed in order to perform the fluid exchange...the flow-out side of the soft line goes into an empty bucket and the flow-in side goes into a bucket filled with the correct ATF for the vehicle. The hydraulic pump in the transmission does the rest. No special tools required. Not saying there aren't special tools or procedures, just saying there will be a pair of soft lines on the vehicles equipped with trans coolers where the fluid exchange can be performed.

If anyone is really that nervous about changing out all the fluid at once, small amounts can be introduced in a few intervals (say, every 2000 miles or so) until the entire system has been exchanged.

Additionally, in the newer vehicles there can be sensor failures that give the impression the trans has failed or is failing. This is where you want to have someone look at the Transmission Control Unit (TCU) to see if there are error codes as those codes can exist within the TCU but not necessarily show up as a Check Engine Light (CEL).

IMO, if you're changing ATF and something fails, there was an issue prior to the fluid change.
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Old 07-12-2020, 07:39 AM   #12
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I've got a 1999 Camry with 260k miles. It's gone to the shop only once for a non routine repair. About a couple of years ago the transmission became slow to engage after sitting for a few days. I simply changed the transmission fluid 3 times over the course of about 1500 miles. Much better now. Changing the transmission fluid on this car is almost as easy as changing the oil. Best car I've ever owned.
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Old 07-12-2020, 11:48 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAXUM View Post
In the mid 2000's Toyota started to introduce the concept of lifetime automatic transmission fluid put into a sealed transmission pan and NOT intended to be changed for the life of the vehicle under "normal" driving conditions.
"Lifetime" is a misnomer in every vehicle that I have seen.

I did own a vehicle with an Aisin (Toyota) automatic transmission that had no dipstick and was "sealed".

The vehicle owners manual stated to change this lifetime automatic transmission fluid at 60,000 miles under hard use and 100,000 miles under normal use.

There is a drain bolt and an add bolt. I did have the fluid changed between 60,000 and 100,000. That vehicle is a 2003 and that car is still on the road today.

Most service schedules in owners manuals end at 100,000 miles. So is that the end of any service or is that the end of the vehicles life?
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Old 07-13-2020, 07:37 PM   #14
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Quote:
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Most service schedules in owners manuals end at 100,000 miles. So is that the end of any service or is that the end of the vehicles life?
Neither. It's up to the owner of the vehicle to continue servicing at the known intervals represented within the owner's manual with the exception of the break-in schedule.

For example, if the mfg says oil change at 5k, that translates to an oil change at 105k. If the trans fluid is every 50k then the trans fluid change would take place at 150k.

Of course, I say all of this and don't follow any of it so there's that.

YMMV
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Old 08-05-2020, 09:37 AM   #15
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I changed my transmission fluid as recommended. I have 2015 GMC sierra 1500. I needed to put a new transmission in at 284,000 mi, I now have 328,000 mi. Tough to say; while its not an old truck, 284,000mi would be the equivalent of about 18yrs old figuring an average of 15,000mi a year. It was $4,000 to do it, I would definitely do it again, I have the lifetime warranty on the motor and those trucks are soo expensive, that it was worth it
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Old 08-05-2020, 01:13 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C-Bass View Post
I changed my transmission fluid as recommended. I have 2015 GMC sierra 1500. I needed to put a new transmission in at 284,000 mi, I now have 328,000 mi. Tough to say; while its not an old truck, 284,000mi would be the equivalent of about 18yrs old figuring an average of 15,000mi a year. It was $4,000 to do it, I would definitely do it again, I have the lifetime warranty on the motor and those trucks are soo expensive, that it was worth it
Sounds like your truck may be also doubling as your office if you are driving close to 60,000 miles per year. Bet you have an EZ-Pass......
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Old 08-06-2020, 08:20 AM   #17
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Yes I do. I have an office but, I commute from Moultonborough to northshore of MA at least 3 days week min.
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Old 08-16-2020, 05:17 PM   #18
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Beginning in my twenties I slowly taught myself to service and repair my own vehicles: I encourage others to do so as well.

As part of preventative maintenance I do in fact drain and refill (do not flush) both the manual and automatic transmissions in my various vehicles.

While you're at it change your oil and filter more frequently than recommended: it's worth the extra money as it should allow your engine to last much longer before needing a rebuild.
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Old 08-20-2020, 08:09 AM   #19
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drain and refill (do not flush)
Interesting debate.

Many/all dealers and repair places have purchased these expensive flush machines.

Gravity drain or flush machine ?
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