Propane vs. Oil Heat

newbie · 07-09-2007, 01:31 PM

Building a new home finally and starting my homework. I had wrote about geothermal, but did not get very positive responses (both on this site and a couple of others). Therefore next question.

New home approx 2500 sq ft, radiant floor heating. Would you install propane or oil. Pros and cons

Thanks everyone

Resident 2B · 07-09-2007, 02:10 PM

I saw a nice, newer GFBL boat that I had not seen before on the lake this past week with the name Pro Pain and that came to mind when I read your posting.

We have oil in a similar size home that we use as a second home year round and I find the cost to be reasonable. We had propane in a place we had in Lincoln before we bought the current place and the cost was very high. Both assessments are on a BTU basis with furnace efficiency factored in.

There was a thread on this forum about the high cost of propane last winter that you might want to check out. I do not remember the exact specifics, but I think it had to do with small volumes of propane due to seasonal or limited usage. There were also issues about having the rent the propane tank and the effect that had on being able to shop for the best propane cost.

Good Luck with you decision and new home.

B2B

fatlazyless · 07-09-2007, 05:55 PM

Last winter, Amerigas-Laconia was socking it to me with their $5.09/gal propane. I used about 260 gal, all winter. Spoke with them a couple weeks ago, and starting August 1, they have a pre-pay propane program. Prepay 300 gal., and they expect it to sell for 2.29/gal. Any unused gallonage below the 300 gal minimum will be carried over to the next heating season.

Amerigas is the United States' largest propane supplier.

Their prepay program sounds too good to be true. Going from 5.09 to 2.29 is a big change! I understand they reneged on their propane prepay program in Vermont during winter 05-06 when the price of oil and propane saw big increases. Amerigas-Vermont got sued and eventually had to sell propane at the agreed price and issue refunds to hundreds of Vermonters who had prepaid. Amerigas is America's propane company, with fingers crossed? Hope it's true.

Old Hubbard Rd · 07-09-2007, 09:22 PM

They are both good ways to heat. With gas you're locked into the company that owns the tanks unless you buy the tanks. With oil you can shop around. Oil prices are more competative. Gas burns cleaner than oil. Oil furances need cleaning yearly. Gas can go much longer between cleanings.

loony · 07-09-2007, 10:12 PM

Here's a thread that includes a comparison of heating fuels back in 2004. Oil was $1.40/gallon back then !

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...read.php?t=274

Hope this helps.

ITD · 07-09-2007, 10:27 PM

Check the price per btu, a gallon of propane is about 91000 btus and a gallon of oil is about 140000 btus. Propane per Less is $2.29 per gallon. Oil is about $2.40 per gallon. Works out to be about $2.52 per 100,000 btu for propane and $1.71 per 100,000 btu for oil. Now figure in boiler efficiency, 90% for propane, 80% for oil, you could probably do a few points better on each but for comparison sake we'll use those numbers. So for propane it works out to $2.80 per 100,000 btu for a propane boiler and $2.14 for oil. You have to get the oil unit serviced every year at about $100. With propane you can probably go a few years.

I'm doing this late but I think my math is right, if not I'm sure it will be pointed out.

My vote would be for oil, easier to change vendors, less variation in price between companies ( less gouging). Don't put a power vent in for oil, put a chimney (I put in a steel one) or buy one of the newer oil boilers that vent thru the wall without a power vent.

Good luck.

SIKSUKR · 07-10-2007, 11:44 AM

I think ITD's numbers are a pretty good comparison for this disscussion.

Irish mist · 07-10-2007, 02:26 PM

All you good folks are not going to believe me, but I heat an 1100 sq ft condo wih electric heat for under $300 from November to April. Granted I like it cool, but the condo holds the heat so well that I can't keep it on more than 4 or 5 hours a day. And if it is over 40 degrees I can't keep the heat on at all.....way too hot.
________
Mflb Vaporizer

ITD · 07-10-2007, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irish mist

All you good folks are not going to believe me, but I heat an 1100 sq ft condo wih electric heat for under $300 from November to April. Granted I like it cool, but the condo holds the heat so well that I can't keep it on more than 4 or 5 hours a day. And if it is over 40 degrees I can't keep the heat on at all.....way too hot.

Do you have neighbor living below you? If so they are probably heating your condo for you.

Irish mist · 07-10-2007, 03:58 PM

Nope.......I'm on the ground floor. The people upstairs are seasonal, so I'm not getting any help. People in this condo go away for the winter here and leave the heat OFF ! That's how tight this place is.
________
List Of Toyota Platforms History

ITD · 07-11-2007, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irish mist

Nope.......I'm on the ground floor. The people upstairs are seasonal, so I'm not getting any help. People in this condo go away for the winter here and leave the heat OFF ! That's how tight this place is.

Nice, heat pump or baseboard?

Irish mist · 07-11-2007, 10:26 AM

Just baseboard electric. No boiler. Water is heated by propane gas for the whole building.....so no water heaters in the units. Pipes can't freeze because they run back to back in the middle of the buildings. I have gone away, and left the heat off in Feb for a week in below zero weather, and when I come home to check the Temp in the unit I have never seen it fall below 53 degrees

We are built on a slab, so we never get water. It's the perfect snow-bird condo. The guy to my left only comes up here 2 or 3 times a year, no need for constant maintainance.
________
HOTBOX VAPORIZER

Puckster · 07-14-2007, 07:38 PM

I have a propane boiler that I ran for 4 years as my primary heat. I now have a wood boiler and use the propane as back up. I put propane in because I did not want to install a full chimney and the side shot oil burners are problematic and smelly. You do not have to clean propane boilers either. If I were to build again, I would put propane in again, but use a more efficient boiler like the well mclain PHD series.

chipj29 · 07-15-2007, 09:10 AM

I had a propane boiler and switched to oil as the propane was costing me ~$500/month in the winter. Oil is less than half that. Sure I have to get the burner serviced, but it is neither problematic nor smelly. Have had zero probs in the 9 years I have had it.

Long Island Baba · 07-22-2007, 09:14 PM

I will second the words of wisdom previously shared re: power vents.....pay the extra money and DO NOT USE them. Awful things. Most contractors put them in with oil systems because they are cheaper than the alternatives (full chimney or piping similar to what is on a wood stove). Those darn things are so noisy! Whole house shakes when it starts up. I am having mine replaced and the pipe guys tell me they do a handful each week for a local oil company the power vents are so bad. It will cost you a few more bucks up front, but well worth it. Talked to several HVAC guys and they said they have tons of service calls on them each year as they are always failing and folks always complain about the noise.

Good luck!

SIKSUKR · 07-23-2007, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Long Island Baba

I will second the words of wisdom previously shared re: power vents.....pay the extra money and DO NOT USE them. Awful things. Most contractors put them in with oil systems because they are cheaper than the alternatives (full chimney or piping similar to what is on a wood stove). Those darn things are so noisy! Whole house shakes when it starts up. I am having mine replaced and the pipe guys tell me they do a handful each week for a local oil company the power vents are so bad. It will cost you a few more bucks up front, but well worth it. Talked to several HVAC guys and they said they have tons of service calls on them each year as they are always failing and folks always complain about the noise.

Good luck!

My house had a power ventilator when I bought it.The smells are caused by the vent creating a negative pressure in the house and when the ventilator is off,the outside air comes in to equalize the pressure.I installed louver vents next to the furnace to help alleviate that problem but in the winter it would let noticable cold in.There are other solutions which work better but nothing hekps with the noise.Mine was located right below my bed.Along with some oil smells,air would come down my chimney and I would get smokey smells on damp days even without a fire going.I installed an insulated chimney and have been very happy ever since.

07-09-2007, 01:31 PM	#1
newbie Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Just North of Boston Posts: 105 Thanks: 57 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	Propane vs. Oil Heat Building a new home finally and starting my homework. I had wrote about geothermal, but did not get very positive responses (both on this site and a couple of others). Therefore next question. New home approx 2500 sq ft, radiant floor heating. Would you install propane or oil. Pros and cons Thanks everyone

07-09-2007, 02:10 PM	#2
Resident 2B Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: North Shore, MA Posts: 1,352 Thanks: 987 Thanked 310 Times in 161 Posts	Oil vs. Pro-pain I saw a nice, newer GFBL boat that I had not seen before on the lake this past week with the name Pro Pain and that came to mind when I read your posting. We have oil in a similar size home that we use as a second home year round and I find the cost to be reasonable. We had propane in a place we had in Lincoln before we bought the current place and the cost was very high. Both assessments are on a BTU basis with furnace efficiency factored in. There was a thread on this forum about the high cost of propane last winter that you might want to check out. I do not remember the exact specifics, but I think it had to do with small volumes of propane due to seasonal or limited usage. There were also issues about having the rent the propane tank and the effect that had on being able to shop for the best propane cost. Good Luck with you decision and new home. B2B

07-09-2007, 05:55 PM	#3
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,528 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 296 Thanked 957 Times in 698 Posts	Last winter, Amerigas-Laconia was socking it to me with their $5.09/gal propane. I used about 260 gal, all winter. Spoke with them a couple weeks ago, and starting August 1, they have a pre-pay propane program. Prepay 300 gal., and they expect it to sell for 2.29/gal. Any unused gallonage below the 300 gal minimum will be carried over to the next heating season. Amerigas is the United States' largest propane supplier. Their prepay program sounds too good to be true. Going from 5.09 to 2.29 is a big change! I understand they reneged on their propane prepay program in Vermont during winter 05-06 when the price of oil and propane saw big increases. Amerigas-Vermont got sued and eventually had to sell propane at the agreed price and issue refunds to hundreds of Vermonters who had prepaid. Amerigas is America's propane company, with fingers crossed? Hope it's true. Last edited by fatlazyless; 07-10-2007 at 06:52 AM.

07-09-2007, 09:22 PM	#4
Old Hubbard Rd Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 462 Thanks: 141 Thanked 54 Times in 33 Posts	Oil vs Propane They are both good ways to heat. With gas you're locked into the company that owns the tanks unless you buy the tanks. With oil you can shop around. Oil prices are more competative. Gas burns cleaner than oil. Oil furances need cleaning yearly. Gas can go much longer between cleanings.

07-09-2007, 10:12 PM	#5
loony Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 101 Thanks: 0 Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts	oil vs propane Here's a thread that includes a comparison of heating fuels back in 2004. Oil was $1.40/gallon back then ! http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...read.php?t=274 Hope this helps.

07-09-2007, 10:27 PM	#6
ITD Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonboro, NH Posts: 2,860 Thanks: 461 Thanked 666 Times in 366 Posts	Check the price per btu, a gallon of propane is about 91000 btus and a gallon of oil is about 140000 btus. Propane per Less is $2.29 per gallon. Oil is about $2.40 per gallon. Works out to be about $2.52 per 100,000 btu for propane and $1.71 per 100,000 btu for oil. Now figure in boiler efficiency, 90% for propane, 80% for oil, you could probably do a few points better on each but for comparison sake we'll use those numbers. So for propane it works out to $2.80 per 100,000 btu for a propane boiler and $2.14 for oil. You have to get the oil unit serviced every year at about $100. With propane you can probably go a few years. I'm doing this late but I think my math is right, if not I'm sure it will be pointed out. My vote would be for oil, easier to change vendors, less variation in price between companies ( less gouging). Don't put a power vent in for oil, put a chimney (I put in a steel one) or buy one of the newer oil boilers that vent thru the wall without a power vent. Good luck.

07-10-2007, 11:44 AM	#7
SIKSUKR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,075 Thanks: 215 Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts	I think ITD's numbers are a pretty good comparison for this disscussion. __________________ SIKSUKR

07-10-2007, 02:26 PM	#8
Irish mist Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 682 Thanks: 122 Thanked 85 Times in 49 Posts	All you good folks are not going to believe me, but I heat an 1100 sq ft condo wih electric heat for under $300 from November to April. Granted I like it cool, but the condo holds the heat so well that I can't keep it on more than 4 or 5 hours a day. And if it is over 40 degrees I can't keep the heat on at all.....way too hot. ________ Mflb Vaporizer Last edited by Irish mist; 02-27-2011 at 09:52 PM.

07-10-2007, 03:58 PM	#10
Irish mist Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 682 Thanks: 122 Thanked 85 Times in 49 Posts	Nope.......I'm on the ground floor. The people upstairs are seasonal, so I'm not getting any help. People in this condo go away for the winter here and leave the heat OFF ! That's how tight this place is. ________ List Of Toyota Platforms History Last edited by Irish mist; 02-27-2011 at 09:52 PM.

07-11-2007, 10:26 AM	#12
Irish mist Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 682 Thanks: 122 Thanked 85 Times in 49 Posts	Just baseboard electric. No boiler. Water is heated by propane gas for the whole building.....so no water heaters in the units. Pipes can't freeze because they run back to back in the middle of the buildings. I have gone away, and left the heat off in Feb for a week in below zero weather, and when I come home to check the Temp in the unit I have never seen it fall below 53 degrees We are built on a slab, so we never get water. It's the perfect snow-bird condo. The guy to my left only comes up here 2 or 3 times a year, no need for constant maintainance. ________ HOTBOX VAPORIZER Last edited by Irish mist; 02-27-2011 at 09:52 PM.

07-14-2007, 07:38 PM	#13
Puckster Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 38 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I have a propane boiler that I ran for 4 years as my primary heat. I now have a wood boiler and use the propane as back up. I put propane in because I did not want to install a full chimney and the side shot oil burners are problematic and smelly. You do not have to clean propane boilers either. If I were to build again, I would put propane in again, but use a more efficient boiler like the well mclain PHD series.

07-15-2007, 09:10 AM	#14
chipj29 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bow Posts: 1,874 Thanks: 521 Thanked 308 Times in 162 Posts	I had a propane boiler and switched to oil as the propane was costing me ~$500/month in the winter. Oil is less than half that. Sure I have to get the burner serviced, but it is neither problematic nor smelly. Have had zero probs in the 9 years I have had it.

07-22-2007, 09:14 PM	#15
Long Island Baba Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 78 Thanks: 1 Thanked 14 Times in 11 Posts	Power Vent I will second the words of wisdom previously shared re: power vents.....pay the extra money and DO NOT USE them. Awful things. Most contractors put them in with oil systems because they are cheaper than the alternatives (full chimney or piping similar to what is on a wood stove). Those darn things are so noisy! Whole house shakes when it starts up. I am having mine replaced and the pipe guys tell me they do a handful each week for a local oil company the power vents are so bad. It will cost you a few more bucks up front, but well worth it. Talked to several HVAC guys and they said they have tons of service calls on them each year as they are always failing and folks always complain about the noise. Good luck!