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Old 03-17-2010, 06:40 PM   #1
Sidewinder
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Default Adding sand to an old property

Hi all,

I bought a 1960's lake front home last Summer and have been renovating the house up until now. The lake front side of the property is about 116' long and has rocks up the shore line until right in front of the house where the grass slopes into the water.

I bought the home from a 83 year old women she has not used the house in the past 15+ years and the grass has taken over where she called her beautiful beach I felt bad for the lady I think she thought the property was the way she left it a long time ago.

Now the house is almost renovated and I have 15+ years of yard work to do what do I have to do about adding sand to the beach? I have done everything by the book Including applying for a dock even though there is the dilapidated dock in the water on my property, got elect, plumb and building permits.

Can I just add sand? If not has anyone been in this situation? Who do I call.... DES?
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Old 03-17-2010, 06:46 PM   #2
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OMG! You didn't get written permission to walk down your driveway?

You need to check out the latest state mandates on what you are allowed to do with your property:

http://des.nh.gov/organization/divis...cspa/index.htm
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Old 03-17-2010, 07:42 PM   #3
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If some sand that you have no control over happens to run off..or end up at the waters edge......on a beach of sorts that has been there for decades.. in the middle of the night...it's out of your control.. Wink Wink.. NB
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Old 03-17-2010, 07:58 PM   #4
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Default Neighbors

Basically, you can do anything you want unless the neighbors complained.

In my case I have a neighbor who became a state representative so that he can get a 'land grant'. The 'land grant' allowed him to put in a miniature peninsular so that he can extend his dock out an extra 40 feet. Because of this it allowed sand to migrate up onto my property. I gained a beach and a dry dock. Naturally I cannot extend my dock so I can use it because I can't use the statement, the neighbor's land grant effected my property. Politicians rules.

I have ask if I can remove the sand and the DES turned it down. I can't do anyting because my neigbor always complains about every little thing I do. If I camplain about him, I'm given a deaf ear.
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Old 03-17-2010, 08:08 PM   #5
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You do have to file for a permit which includes, but not limited to notifying your neighbors in writing, get a topographic map of the area also all dimensions of the lake front. There is more, but I can't think of it right now and I'm sure someone will be pulling the state regs and posting them. You are only allowed so many yards every 3 years I believe and then you have to reapply for the permit if additional sand is needed. Some contractors who deliver notify the state that there was a load of sand delivered at such and such street. The way around that part is to order washed sand for the purpose of making cement.LOL
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Old 03-17-2010, 09:20 PM   #6
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Default Adding Sand

You can file a permit by notification for beach sand replenishment. You can start there. Beach sand replenishment can only be done once every five years. The permit process can take up to 60 days depending on wether the state requests addittional information.

We also have a wetlands scientist on staff to answer questions at our blog.
www.nedockandbarge.com

Good luck and let us know if we can help.
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Old 03-18-2010, 09:29 AM   #7
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You are required to get a permit from DES for beach sand replenishment under NH wetlands law, RSA 482-A. It is a Wetlands issue not a Shoreland Protection Act issue therefore the proper website for information is:

http://des.nh.gov/organization/divis...ands/index.htm

If you have questions feel free to call DES at (603)271-2147.
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Old 03-18-2010, 09:51 AM   #8
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It's amazing how easily a sand pile in the back yard can migrate to a beach area in the front yard about 50 yards away. It doesn't hurt that the neighbor's children play on said beach.

I have no idea how strict they are about granting you the ability to add sand, but once you've notified them be prepared to either live with their answer or to knowingly violate their decision. Keep in mind that as Dock and Barge states, you can only legally replenish the beach every five years which would probably leave most individual beaches looking a lot worse for the wear.
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Old 03-18-2010, 11:54 AM   #9
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Default Is it really a beach at all?

The fact that the land has not been maintained for the past 15 years might mean that it would not be grandfathered as a beach at all. I'm betting that if they don't want you to put the sand there that would be the reason they would site for denying a permit.
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Old 03-18-2010, 01:12 PM   #10
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You'll probably spend about $20,000 getting many permits from the dictators in Concord. The State owns all the shorefrontage within 250 feet around their lakes. They are just nice enough to let you use it.

Disgusting.
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Old 03-18-2010, 06:42 PM   #11
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Is the beach still there under the grass? Could you pull out the grass and stir up the sand or is it all gone?
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Old 03-18-2010, 07:29 PM   #12
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Quote:
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Is the beach still there under the grass? Could you pull out the grass and stir up the sand or is it all gone?
He'd need a permit to pull up the grass too.
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Old 03-18-2010, 07:35 PM   #13
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maybe this is a time for " don't ask don't tell"
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Old 03-18-2010, 07:52 PM   #14
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I don't think so to pull it up by hand. ????? I thought what you could do by hand you didn't need a permit for-like raking.
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Old 03-19-2010, 10:26 AM   #15
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Default Shore Things?

Sorry to High-jack the thread for a quick second, but I got a quick question for shorethings. My house is grand fathered in built about 40 feet from the shore line. Can I build a deck off my Master bedroom on the second floor that would stick out about 4 feet toward the lake but it would NOT have any post, it would be completely suspended/attached to the house?
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Old 03-19-2010, 10:36 AM   #16
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Default Deck question

I think I can answer the deck question. I believe the state law says you can build up to a 12' uncovered deck out towards the water from a non-conforming house. The town may have different laws that would not allow it, however, and you would need to conform to the more strict of the two.
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Old 03-19-2010, 10:38 AM   #17
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If you're currently 40 ft back you could actually go as far out as 12 feet with a deck. Question is actually do you need a Shoreland permit. The answer to that would depend on what is currently under the area that the new deck would cover.
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Old 03-19-2010, 11:01 AM   #18
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Default Grass

I have grass under the area leading all the way from the house to the shore line? So would I need permits? It sounds like it has to do with permeable surfaces?
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Old 03-19-2010, 11:31 AM   #19
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You are correct it has to do with the footprint of imprevious surfaces. If you use standard wood or trex surface you will need a shoreland permit. No waiver, No variance, just a permit. If you use a product like this for your surface then we consider it pervious and you would not need a permit.

http://www.thruflowpanel.com/about.asp

We do not consider 1/4 inch spacing of deck boards to be enough to be pervious. There are 2 reasons for this. The first is frankly that we do not have the time and resources to get dragged into the middle of a debate on how mauch spacing between boards is enough. The second is that some day the deck will be redone... quite possibly by a new owner that isn't aware of the need to maintain some minimum spacing. There is no was that DES could keep track of those types of projects and enforce the required spacing. It would lead to compliance issues at some point down the road.
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Old 03-19-2010, 01:31 PM   #20
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Default Thank You

Shorethings,
Do you know of any other materials like that DES excepts? I can not use that product because my stringers would be 24" on center and this material at best requires 18" so it is not strong enough (and the closest supplier is Conn.)
Thank you so much for all the great help
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Old 03-19-2010, 02:02 PM   #21
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You will most likely need a variance from the town also.
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Old 03-19-2010, 03:09 PM   #22
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Birchhaven

That manufacturer approached us to ask if we would consider their product pervious. That is why I am familiar with this particular one. There are a couple of companies that manufacture composite grating or even metal grating that would have better structural strength but they may not be as well suited for residential use.
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Old 04-20-2012, 04:05 PM   #23
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Default Politics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadHopper View Post

In my case I have a neighbor who became a state representative so that he can get a 'land grant'. The 'land grant' allowed him to put in a miniature peninsular so that he can extend his dock out an extra 40 feet. Because of this it allowed sand to migrate up onto my property. I gained a beach and a dry dock. I cannot extend my dock so I can use it because the neighbor's land grant effected my property.

I have ask if I can remove the sand and the DES turned it down. If I do anything, my neigbor always complains because I took this matter to court.
As I posted earlier, if you want to make changes, politics and money.
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Old 04-29-2012, 10:58 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle View Post
You will most likely need a variance from the town also.
Yes.

And building permits. Engineer plans. Looks like an expensive 4 feet.


But back to he sand which this post is about. As stated in another post there are different kinds of sand. Some comes with built in pesky weeds (seeds).
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Old 04-29-2012, 04:02 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by songkrai View Post
Yes.

And building permits. Engineer plans. Looks like an expensive 4 feet.


But back to he sand which this post is about. As stated in another post there are different kinds of sand. Some comes with built in pesky weeds (seeds).
When adding sand I always use washed concrete sand. It is a little coarser than regular beach sand, but doesn't stick to the kids as bad when they go into the house either.
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